Open 316 - Hard Boiled (Day Two)

[Oversoul]

Someone kill Andrew please so we can go to night. Town is tearing itself up and I am almost positive after people have died things will be easier.

Who called it?

*sigh*

[Coventry]

All right, xMuffin, you have made me curious.

Why am I the most likely scum in the vig pool? Because it would seem to me that I am the most likely scum in the vig pool because...

...I disagreed with you. Or perhaps my worst crime was being right. This game has become terrily topsy-turvy, so perhaps wanring someone of the possible consequences of their strangely anti-town behavior only to have those consequences come to pass is now considered a scum-tell.

But paranoia is fear without reason. And your behavior over the last few days has provided plenty of reason.

Anyway, if you offer a case against me I will certainly answer.

[Coventry]

The problem with lynching Andrew is that it gives us very little information and for exactly the reasons you outlined earlier, Oversoul, I am very uncertain he is a bad guy. From my first read I was almost sure Little Grey/Silver and Amrun were scum, with Neil close behind, because I didn't think he was reacting to pressure the same way he had in our last game with him (I know, he eventually did). Given how the day has developed now, though, I can't imagine us going forward in any useful fashion without dealing with the 800 pound gorilla that is zMuffin's strangely bullying and seemingly scummily opportunistic play.

Just lynching someone to clear the room is still preferable to no-lynch but the reason for the "easy lynches", Hoopla's plan, is now mangled beyond recognition and I believe strongly that you lynch from information and to get information. It is just not clear to me how lynching Andrew is from the first or would offer much of the later.

As always, if anyone can explain to me how I'm wrong I'll certainly reconsider.

[Oversoul]

The problem with lynching Andrew is that it gives us very little information and for exactly the reasons you outlined earlier, Oversoul, I am very uncertain he is a bad guy. From my first read I was almost sure Little Grey/Silver and Amrun were scum, with Neil close behind, because I didn't think he was reacting to pressure the same way he had in our last game with him (I know, he eventually did). Given how the day has developed now, though, I can't imagine us going forward in any useful fashion without dealing with the 800 pound gorilla that is zMuffin's strangely bullying and seemingly scummily opportunistic play.

Just lynching someone to clear the room is still preferable to no-lynch but the reason for the "easy lynches", Hoopla's plan, is now mangled beyond recognition and I believe strongly that you lynch from information and to get information. It is just not clear to me how lynching Andrew is from the first or would offer much of the later.

As always, if anyone can explain to me how I'm wrong I'll certainly reconsider.

I think the reason you are most likely scum, Coventry is based off your predecessor's play. Jakesh and Evilpacman weren't the towniest of players.

[Coventry]

Oversoul,

It's always tough to defend for another person's actions. If you'd like to give me an opportunity with particular actions of theirs, well you know how I read threads, I'll give it a shot, but they would only be guesses. And if you feel the town gets better information with a dead me than a dead anyone else you know what way you have to vote. At the moment you're my towniest townie in the whole game, so I suspect your motives will be pure.

Thanks for being so nice.

[Oversoul]

It just felt like Evilpacman really didn't want to read the plan and was intent on others doing the work for him once he replaced in.

Also, he restated a lot of things that I think was to try and appear towny without actually contributing.

As always, though Coventry, you make the slot look towny.

[Coventry]

Oversoul,

On the first count I would counter a bit. When told it was important Evil read the plan and commented on it in a way that suggests he had at least something of a grasp of it in fairly short order. Actually, looking at Evil in ios for the first time (I didn’t before because well, he is me) almost suspiciously short time, but perhaps he’s a faster reader than I am.

He certainly had a high noise to content ratio, though, and his post in thread #577, where he forgot a rather important point of the mechanics for the plan is rather terrible, but I would point out that he was far from alone in making that sort of slip. And yes, the list of suspicions he recycled in with his “not pr” was a warmed over hash, but that is not that unusual with replacements, especially ones who are less than fully engaged, and his subsequent withdrawal from Mafia in general would support that view.
I told you, mostly guesswork, but I’d ask you to take a last look at his posts before you decide.

Thanks either way.

[glowball]

OKay people, stop saying that zMuffinMan seems like town. HE DOES NOT SEEM LIKE TOWN. He is just being aggressive and mean. He is pushing an agenda, that has been virtually destroyed. The only reason I have heard from people as to why is seems town is because "if he were scum, he wouldn't want to make himself a target like that". Are you serious?! You think he doesn't know that people think that way? I floated to endgame in my first newbie game because people thought I wouldn't act the way I was acting as scum. Get with it- different players, different tactics. He's just so scummy, that he must be town? NO. He's just scum.

[neil1113]

To be honest, my vig desires right now are Andrew, Amrun, and Darkflashlight (where has he been by the way??)... I don't like how Dark and Am have basically ridden the shadows...

But wait, this will suck. So if I'm targeting a townie, the scum might leave me alive? But then if I'm alive on Day 2, wouldn't I be a sure fire lynch suspect? This is my paranoia sinking in now...

[Coventry]

Neil, unless or until you're counterclaimed you don't need to call a target. Listen to whatever advice you receive and keep your own council. Please, though, do listen to the advice you receive.

It seems to me highly unlikely that you will survive the night, though it is possible scum will take a shot in the other direction. The reason I think it unlikely is because of the three possible choices among the other declared power roles one would result in a no-kill for scum and even the other two would offer only a 50/50 shot of getting the right person.

Thanks to the events of the last few hours there is no guesswork concerning you. Listen to everyone and please make a wise decision.

My choices would be Hoopla and Amrun, in that order.

At any rate, what people think of you tomorrow should be the least of your worries.

[DarkFlashlight]

This [less than one day] catchup was rather odd.

2 of {neil, Amrun, Coventry} because the rest of the vig pool are town, as are hoopla, andrew and myself. I'm not even going to try to guess who's lying in the PR pool. It doesn't concern me. If I'm still alive when it matters, then I'll get to figuring it out.

It isn't me.

Why did you even throw this out? It seems off-topic and overly concerned.

VOTE: Muffinman

Do we not realize the deadline is in 4 days? Muffin is the only sure fire lynch I see here, because if anybody deserves to be lynched this game, it's this kid.
[...] Also, I'm pretty sure Hoopla (when Muffin flips scum) is his partner, it makes so much sense it hurts.

Lemme get this straight:
1. Muffin (claimed PR) and Hoopla (lynch pool) are your scumbets.
2. You want to lynch the PR over the person in the lynch pool?

Just no.

Not if Muffin keeps playing the way he's playing, he'll be doing the Mafia more of an advantage staying in then any of his other two teammates.

An attempted explanation. How is one person more of a benefit than another? If you've already coined him as scum, just don't follow his advice, and TADA, he's no longer a threat. You're fake-prioritizing and I don't really see why. He's agitating, yeah, but that doesn't give you the right to go preemptive-CC-lynching.

No, I couldn't have foreseen this happening. It couldn't have been planned.

You're overstressing this. You didn't have to think of it ahead of time, you're both very capable players, capable of adapting.

NO MORE VOLUNTEERS FOR THE LYNCH POOL, PLEASE. YOU'RE NARROWING DOWN THE VIG POOL FOR SCUM. IF WE'RE LYNCHING TODAY, WE'RE LYNCHING ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAS VOLUNTEERED. OTHERWISE, WE NO LYNCH.

This, minus the possibility of an NL.


What's annoying me is all these people calling out a Hoopla/Muffin scumteam, and seemingly forgetting there's a third member.

Are you serious Muffin? Glow? Quil? Is my mislynch really more important then the fact that I'm

NOT SCUM

?

Okay, we'll play by your game. Let's do this. I'm tired of this game anyways, and it'd probably help from me possibly having to be replaced from the missions trip I'm going on Sat. If this is what it'll take to show you all how wrong you are, so be it. I'm the vig.

UNVOTE: Muffin

VOTE: Neil_1113

Good game.

This is so beyond stupid that I'm assuming it's altruism.

Glowball, you somehow imply that zMuffin is responsible for neil outing himself.

I see how she would think that. Muffin was essentially telling Neil to switch to the lynch pool and get lynched today, which if he didn't do, would look scummy. Albeit, there were better ways to weasel out of it than murdering the whole game.

If there are counterclaims I want them.

I know

someone

else HAS to be reading Quilscum here. Check the ISO. This is getting ridiculous.

Better yet was how it was disregarded instantly. Quilford didn't fight for it for any reason, he just wanted it to happen before anyone caught it.

well at least it eliminates me from being lynch and gives us another confirmed townie

Oh you poor sap, you're not confirmed.

Muffinman is obviously town. I'm kind of surprised he is even being considered. He's claimed a PR, so at best, he has a 1/4 chance of being scum.

...all of the PR's have a 1/4 chance, but there's 1/1 chance of there being scum. I don't know why you're writing him off for being the same stakes as everyone else.

To be honest, my vig desires right now are Andrew, Amrun, and Darkflashlight (where has he been by the way??)... I don't like how Dark and Am have basically ridden the shadows...

I was gone for TWELVE HOURS and you're mad at me?


Maybe I'm far too optimistic, but I'm still clinging to the hope that Neil is a sacrificial townie. If that is true, then the plan is not fucked. I don't see why we're crinkling it up because one person does whatever you wanna call what Neil did. Imagine if Neil was scum. This would be the best move ever. You guarantee yourself not to be lynched unless real vig CC's, in which case there's an easy dead vig, and convince the town to throw away its own plan. I saw we wait to gauge what we're doing until Neil actually flips.

UNVOTE: Andrew
VOTE: Hoopla

We obtain nothing from an Andrew lynch, and if Andrew was scum, from what I can tell of his play, he'd likely not volunteer for a lynch. Earlier I just went with the wagon, since I figured we would get both lynches in, and those were the only two candidates, the order didn't matter. Now that we might only get one [or none] in, it actually matters which we go with.


If you must kill Coventry, vig her. I'm not lynching based on horrible process of elimination.

[andrew94]

Who's the vig, andrew?

no counterclaim doesnt mean neil isnt the vig. he might not be.

[andrew94]

unvote vote darkflashlight

i also have a town read on hoopla, my gut says its you, chkflip and someone else

[Quilford]

If there are counterclaims I want them.

I know

someone

else HAS to be reading Quilscum here. Check the ISO. This is getting ridiculous.

Better yet was how it was disregarded instantly. Quilford didn't fight for it for any reason, he just wanted it to happen before anyone caught it.

Haha, actually, I make claiming-related mistakes

all the time

when I'm town.

[zMuffinMan]

Why am I the most likely scum in the vig pool? Because it would seem to me that I am the most likely scum in the vig pool because...

...I disagreed with you. Or perhaps my worst crime was being right. This game has become terrily topsy-turvy, so perhaps wanring someone of the possible consequences of their strangely anti-town behavior only to have those consequences come to pass is now considered a scum-tell.

No, you're scum because you're scum.

Your early posts were IIoA, even when you were trying to break down my plan, you refused to take a stance on anything (it's

possible

both Hoopla and I are scum, it's

possible

something else, etc, etc) and you continue to misrepresent what my plan actually entailed in an attempt to put me in a bad light. You're also most likely scum based on town reads I have in that vig pool (and, of course, town reads I have outside of that vig pool).

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less if you've done anything overtly scummy. You're scum because most of the other players in the game are town, and this is exactly the sort of response I'd expect from you as scum.

But then if I'm alive on Day 2, wouldn't I be a sure fire lynch suspect?

No, you'll be vigged if you're not the vig. So, you being alive tomorrow just means scum are stupid and it'd pretty much confirm you as the vig.

Imagine if Neil was scum. This would be the best move ever. You guarantee yourself not to be lynched unless real vig CC's, in which case there's an easy dead vig, and convince the town to throw away its own plan.

No, DF. It's the dumbest move ever if neil is scum because he's just going to get vigged tonight. The vig doesn't need to CC...

That pretty much means that neil

is

most likely the vig.

If you must kill Coventry, vig her. I'm not lynching based on horrible process of elimination.

No. We lynch Coventry, we vig another likely scum. Stop trying to derail the Coventry lynch.

unvote vote darkflashlight

i also have a town read on hoopla, my gut says its you, chkflip and someone else

andrew, vote Coventry. I don't care if DF is scum, he can be dealt with later.

[zMuffinMan]

Forgot, andrew can't read unless I make it really blatant.

ANDREW, VOTE COVENTRY

[DarkFlashlight]

Before I disagree with you:

DFL is probably town

After I disagree with you:

I don't care if DF is scum, he can be dealt with later.

No, DF. It's the dumbest move ever if neil is scum because he's just going to get vigged tonight. The vig doesn't need to CC...

Unless he's a townie trying to attract attention away from everyone else. It's unlikely given the scenario of his claim, but I still can't believe he would've actually pressurebuckled like that, D1 nonetheless. It would've been better to just completely ignore you and look like the scummiest scum who ever didn't ruin a game.

No. We lynch Coventry, we vig another likely scum. Stop trying to derail the Coventry lynch.

This is cute. I said he could vig Coventry if he really wants so whatever your last sentence was trying to imply is a lie. I don't see the point in killing her, the case was made up on the spot, but I don't have the final say, and regardless of vigging or lynching her, she's dead, and you win. So all you're actually doing by enforcing your way instead of what I said is protecting Hoopla. You two must be in love.

Don't feel coerced into reexplaining why you think Hoopla and Andrew are town. I assure you I understand.


Amrun needs to weigh in before a final decision also. I don't want her flying under this whole situation. Not that I think she' doing it on purpose, but it's still happening.

[zMuffinMan]

Before I disagree with you:

DFL is probably town

After I disagree with you:

I don't care if DF is scum, he can be dealt with later.

?????

Are you... retarded?

This is cute. I said he could vig Coventry if he really wants so whatever your last sentence was trying to imply is a lie. I don't see the point in killing her, the case was made up on the spot, but I don't have the final say, and regardless of vigging or lynching her, she's dead, and you win.

No, the plan isn't kill Coventry and whoever else, it's kill 2 likely scum from the non-PR pool, and the most likely scum in the non-PR pool are in the vig-pool, for reasons you don't want me to re-explain. So killing Andrew/Hoopla isn't an option, as far as I'm concerned. I personally don't care if Coventry is lynched or vigged, as long as someone else in the vig pool is also lynched and vigged today/tonight.

[andrew94]

unvote vote conventry

[zMuffinMan]

PS: I don't get a say in who neil actually uses his vig shot on, but at least with this lynch I can do some analysis on who does or doesn't want the lynch and for what reasons.

Although I still request that neil uses his shot on someone in the vig pool and also announces it before nightfall to help the other PRs.

[zMuffinMan]

btw, DF, who do you think is scum?

Are you voting Hoopla because you think she's scum or just because it 'gives more information' than an andrew lynch?

What do you think of the reason I think Hoopla/andrew are town?

[silverbullet999]

Umm... don't hate me but...

I think I'll request a replacement for me.

I'm just a bit too busy atm and won't be able to catchup

I blame epm for recruiting me

sowwiz? <3

[Amrun]

Every single lynch choice sucks. Andrew is definitely the better choice out of andrew and coventry, though.

Ugh, silver...

[zMuffinMan]

No, he isn't. Andrew is town, Coventry is not.

[Amrun]

Is that one open what has made you this way? Stop it. It's obnoxious. You're not Gllork or DDD and it isn't your place to bully everyone. I'm GLAD I don't want to lynch coventry.
Before glowball comes in and agrees, you did the same thing but worse.