Mini 536: Heroes Smalltown. Game Over!

[curiouskarmadog]

ha, last on the list..bastards.

[curiouskarmadog]

ohh, both Oman and Jdodge in the same game...can someone please warm up the gallows...I do hate a cold noose.

[curiouskarmadog]

oh oh oh..can I?

[curiouskarmadog]

lol, just joking, but thanks for the quick response.

[curiouskarmadog]

I will go with HRG

[curiouskarmadog]

vote mathcam

"for proposing a strategy for deciding who to vote for"

quite scummy

[curiouskarmadog]

vote mathcam

"for proposing a strategy for deciding who to vote for"

quite scummy

Are you thinking? At all?

who proposes a strategy to vote for someone on the fisrt page of voting just based on roles?

[curiouskarmadog]

vote mathcam

"for proposing a strategy for deciding who to vote for"

quite scummy

Are you thinking? At all?

who proposes a strategy to vote for someone on the fisrt page of voting just based on roles?

Because random voting is just

so

much more useful. It makes sense that until we have info, we go after people who are

potentially the biggest threat to the town

.

so then it is there instead of the random vote stage, and shouldnt be taken as serious?..this question goes to mathcam as well

[curiouskarmadog]

to pick a lynch based on a role that could be too powerful if in the hands of scum no matter the alignment versus scum hunting the normal way to find scum?

do I really need to answer this question?

what is your plan tomorrow? Lynch the second most powerful role?

I dont mind the idea if we are generating conversation (like a random voting stage), but to lynch Day 1 based on this is crap.

[curiouskarmadog]

well, i dont typically vote for someone unless I think they are scummy, thus would be ok for a lynch....but it sounds like you are only really proposing a conversation starter..

unvote.

Jdodge...now did you mean voting (like mathcam) or lynching?

[curiouskarmadog]

Mod: question (sorry if this has already been asked)

since HRG does not have a power, is the Haitian immuned to my ability?

[curiouskarmadog]

dammit, this game is making my brain hurt...granted it is a very small headache, but it hurts none the less.

Jdodge, what about Oman's post did you not like? I think i am missing it.

[curiouskarmadog]

wow, have we moved to the directing each other stage?

and yes, SK is a scum group of it's own..that equals 2 scum groups

[curiouskarmadog]

wow, have we moved to the directing each other stage?

and yes, SK is a scum group of it's own..that equals 2 scum groups

I was just saying what I would do, thier was no actual directing..
I gave my reason why and I needed to make sure I was on the same page as everyone so I asked a question. I dont want to screw up a complex game and go protect the worng person. Going it alone sounds like more of a scum thing to do CKD

LOL does it now? telling the scum what you are going to do before you do it is not the scum thing to do? nice SPIN. Answer me this DAS, why do you want to give scum information before tonight? Why do you want us to give the scum information before tonight?

vote davidangelsummers

what is wrong with making a judgement call tonight, THEN telling people what you did?

[curiouskarmadog]

Has the town unanimously agreed to this course of action? Is there any “direction” or plan for the town that the mafia can know about that wont hurt the town if they have said knowledge? I don’t think I am overreacting, but maybe the vote is premature.

Unvote, FoS DAS

I don’t like being directed to do anything and I don’t like providing information to the scum before I make a decision. Now, I will be the first in line to tell you what I did “last night” but don’t expect me to tell scum what I will do before I do it.

Currently I don’t have a problem with discussing roles and what is or isn’t a good idea, but I don’t think I want to sign up for being directed. Exception to this, is if the town collectively agrees that a certain action or inaction is best all around, but I haven’t seen this yet.

Town directing different roles is a good thing,

What do you have in mind?

[curiouskarmadog]

I simply said I dont mind the town having discussion, but I am not down with people directing people's night choice..are you?

[curiouskarmadog]

is an answer?

[curiouskarmadog]

will post when I get a second

[curiouskarmadog]

Can the rest of the town please comment on whats going on between zoneace and myself right now.

I assume that the problem is the fact that this was the main part of his response to your points you posted about him. He again doesn’t address your points and says this.

I do admit I've been ignoring TSQ. I'm not going to answer his questions about my observcations today because well, it's day one of a day start game where we know EVERYONE'S power, I'd rather not blow my load yet. I think we need a night of activities before we can make a legitimate attempt at locating our resident scums.

I await further attempts by TSQ to justify his policy lynch.

I don’t think you were policy lynching ZA because before your vote returned to him it was on me for essentially a misunderstanding between cam and myself.

It strikes me odd that ZA is moving toward a No Lynch. In every other game I have ever been in with him, he votes for silly reasons and quite frankly appears to lynching just for lynching. Most of these games are ongoing, but if you meta him and read the games I am sure it will be quite apparent what I am talking about.

The vote for a no lynch seems like ZA is trying to look town.

FoS Zoneace.

Now to Gorgon’s vote.

I also went back and skimmed over the game, and I must say I really don't like ckd's vote and subsequent unvote on mathcam.

vote mathcam

"for proposing a strategy for deciding who to vote for"

quite scummy

who proposes a strategy to vote for someone on the fisrt page of voting just based on roles?

to pick a lynch based on a role that could be too powerful if in the hands of scum no matter the alignment versus scum hunting the normal way to find scum?

to pick a lynch based on a role that could be too powerful if in the hands of scum no matter the alignment versus scum hunting the normal way to find scum?

do I really need to answer this question?

what is your plan tomorrow? Lynch the second most powerful role?

I dont mind the idea if we are generating conversation (like a random voting stage), but to lynch Day 1 based on this is crap.

I note that he says twice that he's objecting to mathcam suggesting people

vote

based on the roles, but then ups it to actually lynching, which is neither what matcham was suggesting, nor how ckd originally interpreted it.

well maybe you need to actually read what happened instead of "skimming" before you vote. I admit that I misunderstood what he meant, thus the unvote, which you have also quoted.

well, i dont typically vote for someone unless I think they are scummy, thus would be ok for a lynch....but it sounds like you are only really proposing a conversation starter..

unvote.

Jdodge...now did you mean voting (like mathcam) or lynching?

Then he again acknowledges that matchcam's suggestion was just a conversation starter/voting device ... so which was it? Did ckd think that mathcam was proposing we lynch based on roles, or that he was merely generating conversation/semi-random votes?

You are taking this out of context. Why? It is obvious that I misunderstood what cam was saying. The first sentence is explaining why I voted, then next sentence is explaining why I unvoted. What are you not understanding here?

Couple this with ckd's vote then downgrade to a FOS on das, and I find ckd to be suspiciously wavering in his accusations. This warrants a vote.

Vote: curiouskarmadog

So you are voting me because I am indecisive? You are voting me because when someone shows that my thought processes might be incorrect (or I am misunderstanding something) I unvote instead of being prideful and keeping my vote. So are you saying I would be less scummy in your eyes, if I kept my votes on even though I no longer agree with them, please explain.

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm feeling a ZA wagon pretty strongly right now, truth to tell.

Unvote, Vote: ZONEACE

Now who is being...

suspiciously wavering in his accusations

now????

By your standards that deserves a vote. Now that Thestatusquo has moved his vote back to ZA, I am no longer the bandwagon that is in the limelight. Was the CKD bandwagon not good enough for you, "truth to tell"? Why do you keep following Thestatusquo vote? or is it the bandwagon of the hour?

What happened to this question?

I do admit I've been ignoring TSQ. I'm not going to answer his questions about my observcations today because well, it's day one of a day start game where we know EVERYONE'S power, I'd rather not blow my load yet. I think we need a night of activities before we can make a legitimate attempt at locating our resident scums.

As per what I said above, I believe that day 1 discussion is useful, even in this game, seeing that everyone's alive and all. What exactly, in your opinion, is the potential harm in this?

You didnt seem to think that a vote on ZA was warrented here, what changed in the past 2 posts?

Vote Gorgon

[curiouskarmadog]

please explain to me how wavering means mixing up words.

you provided two examples of me voting then unvoting and said I was wavering..

why are you backtracking now?

I FoSed ZA because I think he is being slightly scummy and if there was a choice between a no lynch and voting ZA he will get my vote. Currently the shea ZA discussion is still being discussed...however, your actions are scummy and the fact that you are backtracking is even more apparent.

so my FoS on Za was enough for you to vote him? ZA voted for a no lynch way before you voted me...so this makes

[curiouskarmadog]

that is not correct...ZA voted for a no lynch AFTER you voted me....

[curiouskarmadog]

I am curious why you didnt FoS or address ZA's no lynch until now

[curiouskarmadog]

gordon, my other

FOS

goes on you. I think you have changed your mind too quickly to many times. You have had strong feelings about votes and other people’s reasons for reducing their vote and then you change your mind. Im not sure how helpful your roll is to town when compared to Zone. Please enlighten me...

Technically I have "changed my mind" more than Gorgon, DaS, thoughts?

[curiouskarmadog]

not that it matters because I dont think we should be lynching due to powers..The big difference is I dont have a "power" thus it can be stolen...at least that is how I read it.

[curiouskarmadog]

noted:
Gorgon agrees with ZA, but keeps vote on him.

noted:
Gorgon is passive aggressively telling me who I should target and who I shouldnt target. Dont worry, most likely I will not use my "power" to protect..as you say we have doctor for that...I am going to target who i think is scum...if you have a problem with that...maybe you need to "answer for that"...

[curiouskarmadog]

advice taken

[curiouskarmadog]

I find your play to be pro-town while ZONACE's is anti-town, but I've already decided I'm giving a pass to the investigative roles regardless of alignment for D1 unless they do something that is incredibly scummy today.

it is statements like this that other me. "Regardless of alignment." How do you know who is what? But then you might vote them if they act scummy? This seems like you know who is scum and who is not, but wont vote anyone until the act scummy.

I dont care who has what role, if someone is scummy, we lynch them, no one gets a pass.

Vote shaft.ed

[curiouskarmadog]

umm, what am I missing?

[curiouskarmadog]

the difference here, is when someone claims cop in a normal game, you dont know for a fact that they are a cop or not. But usually a cop in a normal game is town. Here the roles are known and just the alignment is not. Unlike a normal game, just because someone IS an investigative role doesnt mean they should be looked over Day 1. Different game, different rules apply.

You attack him because he seems to being focusing on Oman and no one else. He answers with a "well I am not even going look at the investigative roles, unless they act incredibly scummy". Well, that A.) doesnt really fully address that (your) point, B.) makes it ok for him to ignore people today C.) Unlike our human bomb, I just dont buy it.

call it gut, but I am finding out lately that if I voted more with my intial gut, I would be playing a hell of a lot better.

[curiouskarmadog]

well, then I guess I am lucky my vote isnt on an investigatvie role, now arent I?

[curiouskarmadog]

well, then I guess I am lucky my vote isnt on an investigatvie role, now arent I?

So you agree that we shouldn't lynch investigative roles D1, and vote for me because I don't think we should lynch investigative roles D1.

it was sarcasm or was it not apparent enough?

[curiouskarmadog]

spin it whatever way you need to, If I think somehting is scummy it will get my vote...I dont care about who has what role.

[curiouskarmadog]

"CKD: Attacking anyone that suggests we not lynch useful power roles." Really is that what I am doing or am I against people making choices for me?

"Votes for me because I stated I will no lynch Zoneace today unless he does something incredibly scumm" Really thats what I did? Any reason to didnt quote my post that had my vote in it?

Who is misrepresenting who here?

[curiouskarmadog]

"CKD: Attacking anyone that suggests we not lynch useful power roles." Really is that what I am doing or am I against people making choices for me?

going to address this or ignore it?

[curiouskarmadog]

"CKD: Attacking anyone that suggests we not lynch useful power roles." Really is that what I am doing or am I against people making choices for me?

going to address this or ignore it?

I think I cleary addressed this in my run down of your play.

Seems he doesn't like any "rule" like behavior that restricts play.
...
definitely doesn't like absolutes.

am I attacking them because they are suggesting we not lynch powerful roles, or because I dont think anyone should get a pass due to roles and dont like being told what to do with my vote or my "power"?..There is a difference here...I feel like you might be misrepresenting my motivations.

[curiouskarmadog]

curiouskarmadog again a bit of a missnomer. He just strikes me as town who is not particulary good at defending himself. Thats all. Call it a gut feeling.

My Meta on CKD is he has a better defence whilst scum then town. Though I've never seen him be quite so angry/sarcastic in a game.

I can defend myself just fine..that being said, what am I defending myself against?

is there a case I didnt see?

[curiouskarmadog]

I will be gone until the 26th. Also giving you the heads up, I am in a ton of games so it might be slow going updating all the games I am in, but I will get to it when I get back.

Thanks for the entertainment, I hope you and yours have a good holiday!

[curiouskarmadog]

for the record, I dont think that Shea is picking on ZA for OOG reasons, of course maybe a meta will tell me different but I dont have time for that..and even if he was, this doesnt give me a clue on the alignment of either.

I think shea (why do they call you that?) has some good points against ZA...mainly shea's third point in regard to ZA...

I am disappointed that DAS has quit, there was a lot of information (present and for future games) that could be found in shea's and ZA's tiff. BTW, if you cant deal with sarcasm in the world, I have a feeling you will be taking your ball and going home frequently in life. This entire site is chalked full of sarcasm and grudges...what makes a true mafia player is seeing through it and doing something with it. I would be a hypocrite if I said that shit on this site hasnt seriously pissed me off, but instead of walking away to a commitment, I just step back and take it for what it is...a game and continue on..

also shafted, I dont for a second believe the " I feel your pain" statement..why are you blaiming shea and ZA for your lack of posting "as it stands". You have the power to change it, add to it, start another line of conversation, or whatever, why dont you? Going to keep playing the victim?

[curiouskarmadog]

edit "to a commitment" = "from a commitment"

[curiouskarmadog]

As much as I hate fence sitters, I am on the fence about ZA at the moment.

For meta reasons, posts like "That's the only insight i felt like sharing so far" doesnt seem scummy coming from ZA. I have recently seen ZA play scum and I feel (if ZA meant it the way it sounds) that his play is either just being an ass or anti-town (different than scum) or he is watching something (like a trap or such) and doesnt want to share. To me, this doesnt seem like something scum would say. Actually more, I dont think it is something ZAscum would say.

that being said, your 3rd (misrepresenting) point does seem scummy to me. Now I dont know if he is doing this as a way to attack you for OOG reasons, if he just was trying to defend himself by deflecting, or if he is just scum. I didnt like.

I dont think that ZA is the lynch today. I am pretty sure our scum (in this game) are quietly sitting back loving the fact you and ZA are going round and round, being agreeable with the masses, and trying to stir shit or push crap as quietly as possible..

[curiouskarmadog]

I am pretty sure our scum (in this game) are quietly sitting back

What makes you so sure?

gut

I don’t think that ZA is our scum. His bandwagon is picking up steam (slowly) and I am just not buying it. I don’t think shea is scum either at this point. I dont agree with a no lynch and don’t know why ZA is pushing it. I have only been in one game with ZA that I knew his alignment (scum) and I had that pegged from Day 1. This doesn’t have that feel to it. Of course, people change styles and this is a different set up, but I am not getting the scum vibe off ZA.

[curiouskarmadog]

If the slowness of the wagon is a factor, consider the holidays - lots of threads, including this one, have slowed over christmas. If it's just gut then... I personally don't see it, and con only trust it to the extent of other peoples' testimonies - are you guys sure enough to tie your innocence to ZAs, or would you prefer me (personally) to judge on less qualitative matters? This is a weird matter - I normally wouldn't consider accepting testimony, but this strength of consensus is unusual.

I think I might be reading this post incorrectly. The speed of the wagon has nothing to do with my gut on ZA and who I think it scummy. I wouldnt consider my judgement on ZA as a testimony and much as a personal insight. I have also given my thoughts about Shafted and Shea, why arent you asking me to tie my innocence to them? Mayeb I am not understanding you though, to the part I am not getting, are you asking if we are willing to our own alignment on the line in defense of ZA? Because that is simply ridiculous and quite odd if you are. Before I go into this anymore, I want to make sure that is indeed what you are asking....so far I have misread twice in this game..so before I jump to conclusions (again), I want to make you I understand what you are really asking here.

[curiouskarmadog]

in a game where we are suppose to not know people's alignment, why would anyone put up a defense for someone they think is town and put their innocence on the line? Again why didnt you make a comment like this when I gave my opinion of Shea or Shafted?

[curiouskarmadog]

and what do you gather from my repsonse? and why did you not ask me about shafted or shea, why focus on ZA?

[curiouskarmadog]

I for one agree with shafted, ZA is playing differently..that being said, the only game I have been in with Za he was scum...Shafted, how many of ZA's games have you read? any game stick out to you that is completed you can reference? or are you just blowing smoke?

[curiouskarmadog]

well it was full of the former

[curiouskarmadog]

also (seems like I keep saying this). I am not down for lynching someone because of their role (or lack thereof)...so lynching SHea because he is vanilla is a bad idea...we should base our lynch on who is scummy.

fonz, where did I say I was taking the role completely out? I just dont want actions BASED solely on one's role.

[curiouskarmadog]

I dont care who has what role, if someone is scummy, we lynch them, no one gets a pass.

does that mean to disagree with this statement?

[curiouskarmadog]

I dont care who has what role, if someone is scummy, we lynch them, no one gets a pass.

does that mean to disagree with this statement?

well let me ask it this way, do you disagree with that statement?

[curiouskarmadog]

if we are going to quote a post lets quote a post in its context.

I find your play to be pro-town while ZONACE's is anti-town, but I've already decided I'm giving a pass to the investigative roles regardless of alignment for D1 unless they do something that is incredibly scummy today.

it is statements like this that bother me. "Regardless of alignment." How do you know who is what? But then you might vote them if they act scummy? This seems like you know who is scum and who is not, but wont vote anyone until the act scummy.

I dont care who has what role, if someone is scummy, we lynch them, no one gets a pass.

Vote shaft.ed

now, you tell me AGAIN, what I said.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am against a no lynch. However, Gorgon what about Oman’s “no lynch” is a cop out?

So ... I'm leaning towards either Oman or no lynch right now. ZA is somewhat of a possibility, but I feel his role is a point in his favour. In general, there are too many people in this game, IMO, that look all too town. It's a tough call, and I'm not convinced that the two players who objectively look most like potential scum (Oman and ZA) are actually scum - not least because they only look scummy in comparison with all the others. However, if not them, I'm hard pressed to name anyone else. It must be said that I generally don't like the idea of a no lynch, though.

Unvote

while I think about this some more.

Why is it a cop out when Oman suggests it, but it is not a cop out when you do? You don’t think that ZA and Oman who look scum (in comparison) are actually scum, but you just had your vote on ZA and you are leaning toward Oman.

Gorgon, in your view, why do Oman and ZA look scummy?

Call me “paranoid”, but at this point I would have NO PROBLEM with lynching Gorgon or shafted.

[curiouskarmadog]

ok, so I am having issues posting..will updte when I can post and it doesnt take 30 minutes

[curiouskarmadog]

I am here, now that the site isnt taking me 10 minutes per post, I will get caught up over the weekend.

[curiouskarmadog]

I need to catch up, but a quick review of this page, suggests that again, people are telling other people what to do tonight, interesting. Or suggesting that if they do anything they will be scummy.

...hey I have an idea, why dont we just discuss EXACTLY what we should do so that mafia knows what we are doing so it will be easier for them to plan and discuss their plan of attack tomorrow. Way to lay the groundwork for tomorrow's lynch shafted!

my vote is still solid on shafted

now going to read the last 2-3 pages

[curiouskarmadog]

anyway we can have a deadline extension of 2-3 days?

With the site like it has been for the past 3 days, I have a crap of time trying to get in read pages and post (I dont even want to talk about trying to quote something)..at any rate, would like to get my thoughts out there before the day ends.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am here, I still support a shafted/Gorgon lynch, but it looks like Oman is the way the town will be going.

Finally, CKD I hope it's because you haven't been reading the thread due to connectivity but please know what you're talking about before you post.

Not sure what you are referencing here. I assume you are talking about..

I need to catch up, but a quick review of this page, suggests that again, people are telling other people what to do tonight, interesting. Or suggesting that if they do anything they will be scummy.

...hey I have an idea, why dont we just discuss EXACTLY what we should do so that mafia knows what we are doing so it will be easier for them to plan and discuss their plan of attack tomorrow. Way to lay the groundwork for tomorrow's lynch shafted!

Well please explain to me what you are doing here.

Shea or Adele doing the kill is even stoopider because neither of them has any business targeting anyone. If they get caught by say a Watcher, what the hell are they going to say?

If JDodge and CKD use their power they are going to have a lot of explaining to do. However if CKD targets someone and they die he's got a lot of explaining to do since that should not be happening so he goes with the Shea/Adele group. Cicero's power is perfect cover for a NK because he doesn't really need any particular reason to target someone. The Fonz won't protect from Sylar so he doesn't have to use his power at all if mafia. Finally Gorgon goes with the Shea/Adele/CKD group as not having a targeting power so he's got a lot of explaining to do if caught. And he is free to kill every other night.

I still think Oman is the most scummy today and removing his power will also be better off for the town.

Also, I note again that you seem to be supporting your vote on Oman for what seems to be like role reasons versus, you think he is scum reasons.

Yeah...so that deadline's tommorow guys. Anybody home?

what do you care, if nobody posts before deadline the man you “want” to hang…hangs.

This just seems like someone who is trying to seem town.

[curiouskarmadog]

well, I targetted Gorgon last night...since Gorgon and I both go at the same time, I am curious if he was able to blink out or not..

I also assume "shot" means a mafia kill, am I right to assume this Mod?

After we have all claimed, I am interested to hear theories why there was no Sk kill last night. Again, I want to wait till everyone has claimed first.

[curiouskarmadog]

Yvonne, hae you confirmed that you were able to target two people last night?

[curiouskarmadog]

Mod, since Gorgon and I both go at the same time....whose power worked first?

[curiouskarmadog]

lol, continue making suggestions and dictating how people should use their roles...

at least can we wait until everyone f-ing claims?

[curiouskarmadog]

I will put that in my suggest box

[curiouskarmadog]

suggestion

[curiouskarmadog]

I find that doubtful

[curiouskarmadog]

lol, mathcam..I targetted him because I thought he was scum...his power was an after thought.

what other night choices would I be preoccupied with?

[curiouskarmadog]

vote gorgon

...I dont think anything he could say would make me not vote him today.

[curiouskarmadog]

DGB, this is why I hate playing with you. You're the definition of dislogic. People have made the argument of a weighting system to balance scumminess with roles, and while I personally disagree with I some merit to it. But making the argument that someone is SCUM or not simply based on their role is completely wrong. Like, I can't even begin to think of a justification for it.

qft

[curiouskarmadog]

dgb, why include arguements for who is scum based on roles, what purpose does it serve?

[curiouskarmadog]

She dove in without reading carefully again.

did she admit to that?

[curiouskarmadog]

wtf jsut happened to this game?

[curiouskarmadog]

I am still good with my vote on Gorgon

[curiouskarmadog]

What about having ckd jail Gorgon every night from now on?

why? to see if the SK strikes tonight? If they dont, will your opinion of the situation change? I targetted Gorgon because I felt he was one of the scummiest out of day 1 and I felt that scum would think I would jail Shafted instead. I think Gorgon is still scum...I think he knows that he has been caught, and that is why he is hardly posting in here...anyone curious why Gorgon is not scum hunting today?

why not lynch Gorgon and let me jail someone else? Why is telling me how to use my role a better choice? Who would you rather lynch instead? Who do you think is mafia? our SK?

[curiouskarmadog]

I don't have a huge amount of time, but I could get down with the Gorgon lynch (since I don't see a flaw in Mathcam's stats) and might, after doublechecking it through in a music-free environment (can't really concentrate here) be onboard with an Yvonne lynch.

why?

[curiouskarmadog]

fair enough, you seem like a pretty analytical independent thinker, so when I hear I can go with “either or” or “reasons other people have said” alarms sound…look forward to your reasons later. Even if they are the same, I am just curious which reasons and from who.

[curiouskarmadog]

No one has done all that much "active scumhunting" today EXCEPT DGB.

I disagree

[curiouskarmadog]

prod the fonz, please mod..thanks

[curiouskarmadog]

my case against Gorgon has nothing to do with his role (why do I feel like I am saying that repeatedly in this game). Gorgon was on my top two scum list for yesterday (as was shafted). Today, I find there was no SK kill which only feeds my suspicion about gorgon being scum.

not sure what you are not getting about this.

who do you think is the sk, dgb?

[curiouskarmadog]

some people might be using that argument, but I think people are using it to defend Gorgon as well..if gorgon had a useful role that the SK might want, maybe the SK targetted him and of course he couldnt beause he was in jail.

I for one thought Gorgon was scum yesterday sans night kill or not. not as sure about shafted today...so my vote is on who I think is the scummiest given the information on hand.

[curiouskarmadog]

and how old are you anyway?

[curiouskarmadog]

you two get a room

[curiouskarmadog]

thanks for that clarification

[curiouskarmadog]

I also dont think we will get much more out from him today.

[curiouskarmadog]

lol, why dont we see what he turns out as before we start laying groundwork for tomorrow's lynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

lol, why dont we see what he turns out as before we start laying groundwork for tomorrow's lynch.

Yeah that's exactly what I was doing
.

your sarcasm is noted, but what exactly is the point of throwing suspicion on people BEFORE we know gorgon's alignment?

[curiouskarmadog]

that is not entirely true...if Gorgon was just at -1, you would not be making statements like "it is likely that is 1 or 2 scum on his wagon". You dont even know his alignment yet to make such statements.

[curiouskarmadog]

and what if he turns out to be mafia?

[curiouskarmadog]

I think he was scum (leaning toward the SK), however, I find it odd that you are already pointing fingers when we dont know what his alignment or scum faction he was in.

[curiouskarmadog]

fair enough

[curiouskarmadog]

I think Fonz should claim today (and his protections yesterday)..I think Yvonne should claim before anyone else...I have no problem claiming after, but I think cicero is right, it is good to mix it up.

[curiouskarmadog]

I think I agree with TSQ and Fonz. I really don't know what information would be gleaned from him revealing his targets. If he's scum he's probably sending in viable candidates anyway. If he's town it just helps the scum to know what he's doing every night. Unless he gets caught by a watcher, which would be pretty unlikely at this point, I don't see a point in it.

I see your point, if he is scum, he is probably sending out choices anyway. I retract my request...I would however still like to see the Yvonne declare now.

[curiouskarmadog]

also, can someone who has the time do a list of those players who were confirmed using a "power" yesterday.

[curiouskarmadog]

I would like to hear Yvonne's claim now please.

[curiouskarmadog]

I would like CKD to tell my why Adele was locked up last night.

I think Yvonne should claim before anyone else...I have no problem claiming after, but I think cicero is right, it is good to mix it up.

How do you know she was locked up? Actually can you wait to answer until after (and then I) claim? I will neither confirm nor deny my actions last night..Yvonne please claim now!

[curiouskarmadog]

And who will catch you if you are lying?

[curiouskarmadog]

Since Yvonne is refusing to go, I will go and explain.

I did target Adele.

Yesterday:

I used my ability on Gorgon (confirmed for sure)
DGB said he targeted Gorgon (no way to cofirm)
Cicero targeted Shafted (shafted confirmed it)
Shafted targeted Yvonne (Yvonne confirmed it)
Fonz did not provide info.
Adele did nothing
Shea did nothing
Yvonne targeted shafted and Adele (there is no way to confirm this, she declared last)

A mafia kill was submitted so it could be Adele, Shea, Fonz, or DGB. Yvonne could have also submitted the kill, since she went last (on the insistence of Adele) she could have stated what had already been declared. Shafted could also have submitted the kill, for even though Yvonne said he went twice, it does not mean she actually went twice, because again she is just agreeing to what has already been said. I believe that Cicero did indeed target Shafted, but again this can not be confirmed.

After yesterday I was feeling that Yvonne was acting quite suspicious, but if I was wrong and targeted her, we would be wasting some valuable information.

So I was going to target one of the two people I was sure did nothing yesterday. I was torn between targeting Shea and Adele. When I went back to read I saw this exchange.

/suggest that we come up with an order for nightinfo claims - I think Yvonne, as a watcher (and I, as a self-watcher) should go last, for example.

I suggest that from now on, until at least the SK performs a kill, ckd jails Gorgon every night.

Who's next?

I got motivated. My watch targets were Adele and shaft.ed.

Nobody targetted Adele.

And cicero did indeed target shaft.ed.

Well simple numerical odds are greatly in favor of Gorgon being the SK. But it should be noted that Gorgon's role is probably one of the most useful to the SK if not the most so he would be a likely target.

Exactly. That's why I said Gorgon would make a rather dangerous SK if he was one.

Well, maybe one way to go about this, is for ckd to continue jailing Gorgon and see if there are still no SK kills.

I thought that an Adele/Yvonne link was possible. I thought if Adele was scum, they could pass off the kill to her last night and she could fake her “watching”. However, she was not the one who submitted the kill.

However, I demand that Yvonne go next…I don’t want more information from her that could be regurgitated crap after everyone goes.

shafted, why couldnt you let Yvonne declare first before pressuring me to claim?

Yvonne, claim now or may vote will be coming!

[curiouskarmadog]

Nobody, except Adele, but she must go before me today since something's happened which involves her.

Also, all the players have to tell the truth if they go before me because they don't know my result. If I go first, the scum can escape easily and there is essentially no use to my role.

How do you know Adele can catch you lying? You targetted her again last night? Why? Are you refusing to claim now?

[curiouskarmadog]

shafted, can you please explain to me what DGB role does.

[curiouskarmadog]

cross post

[curiouskarmadog]

shafted I think before you next post, you need to take a moment and read the game...

read DGB's role
I explained why a locked up "a" watcher..not "the"

[curiouskarmadog]

it was two different thoughts...shafted wanted to know why I jailed "the" watcher..I jailed "a" watcher (adele) not "the" watcher (yvonne).

I want Yvonne to claim next.

[curiouskarmadog]

also shafted you are right, DGB could not target Adele ( I should liten to my own advice and read the roles again)...anyway, after reading that Yvonne/Adele link I wanted to target one of the two...Adele can not absorb my power, and I wanted to compare who Yvonne watched today versus yesterday.

your post makes it sound like I targetted the watcher (also at the time I didnt think you knew who had what role) and only watcher...

[curiouskarmadog]

ugh that didnt make sense. at the time, i didnt think you knew who had what role. I thought you thought that Adele was THE watcher...when she was just a watcher.

and jsut so we are on the same page, you understand now when I said "yesterday"..I meant "Day 1" right?

[curiouskarmadog]

Since Yvonne is refusing to go, I will go and explain.

I did target Adele.

Yesterday:

I used my ability on Gorgon (confirmed for sure)
DGB said he targeted Gorgon (no way to cofirm)
Cicero targeted Shafted (shafted confirmed it)
Shafted targeted Yvonne (Yvonne confirmed it)
Fonz did not provide info.
Adele did nothing
Shea did nothing
Yvonne targeted shafted and Adele (there is no way to confirm this, she declared last)

A mafia kill was submitted so it could be Adele, Shea, Fonz, or DGB.

I had this train of thought yesterday, but Adele pointed out that being 'confirmed' by one other player doesn't confirm anything, since any two players could conceivably be scum together.

you are correct...so the only person that can truly be confirmed as using their role was me.

[curiouskarmadog]

I have explained why I jailed Adele...I am here to stop scum and we do not know that I am off....we do know she did not submit the kill last night. Yesterday I saw Adele and Yvonne trying to control my actions and setting up yesterday's order of claims...there was a link, I might have targetted the wrong person as it seems...but dont act like we did not learn anything.

I want Yvonne to delcare now, because I have a feeling that if she does so now she is only going to confirm what has already been said. Most likely claiming to target me, cicero, or adele. If Yvonne is scum and she submitted the kill last night, going last she could then easily make up her claim again. I am curious why one of the first things she said today was "I thought I go last"...was that the plan that was stated yesterday? Yvonne always goes last? I saw where Adele had mentioned that Yvonne should go last yesterday but am I missing where anyone said she should go last everyday. I think scum might have had a plan now it is not going by that plan.

vote yvonneseer.

she says she wants to catch scum, but who really is left to claim? You is trying to make me look shady for pressing this, why? Dont you want to be confirmed townie? If you are telling the truth and someone says you are lying, then we have something to go on. Why wait till later to do that, when you can do it now? I think she is scum....

CLAIM!

[curiouskarmadog]

you "is" = you "are"

it basically boils down to this, if yvonne is scum and submitted the kill (or knows who does)..she will safety claim some BS if she claims now because it is not going as "planned"...if she goes last, I pretty much have a feeling that she is not going to catch any scum or "lies" and just agree with what has been said. I am not down with that.

CLAIM now! No one else claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

then they should be replaced

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm the only other person left to claim. It's really not that important the order of the claims unless Yvonne thinks I'm scum that submitted the kill. Her reluctance to claim is interesting. But I have to say CKD, the watchers making the kill is quite a strange scenario. They can easily let a partner do it and target someone at no risk of dying since they know where the kill is going. I really don't think they'd be making the kill if they were scum but that's just my opinion I suppose.

Thank you for your scum tactic lesson...How do you know what scum can easily do? How do you know they have not switched up kills? What makes you think that it does go toward their benefit to have a watcher (if indeed a watcher is scum) to claim they watch why submitting kills. Especially if said watcher is under the impression they are going to claim last every day.

If we were scum together, I could have told her who i was protecting overnight, couldn't I!

that means little..obviously yvonne was under the impression that she was going to go last...

Amazing 180 from some of you. I thought we all agreed that the watchers would go last since they could catch the most amount of potential liars (and also each other if they lie) in a hypothethical situation, but apparently I thought wrong. In the first place, those of you who didn't even agree with watchers going last, you should have voiced out yesterday, not make a big fuss the following day. Also, my reluctance to have the scum make safe claims easily makes me scummy?

please quote yesterday where we decided you would go last everyday? Please quote where anyone but Adele suggested you go last (everyday).

CLAIM NOW..quit stalling

unovte

[curiouskarmadog]

cross post, was going unvote (because I didnt want to see her hung before she claimed)..but I think I will leave it now.

so you claimed you watch fonz.

shafted, DGB..your turns.

[curiouskarmadog]

shafted, who did you motivate?

[curiouskarmadog]

DGB?

Yvonne, why did you target the Fonz?

Shafted, why did you target Adele over Yvonne?

[curiouskarmadog]

DGB?

*smack*

was this an answer? you are last.

I honestly still dont like CKD's jailing of Adele. I think it's been the most anti-town move so far in the game. I read his reasoning and I think it's outweighed. It made sense to me that Shaft.ed would end up motivating Adele. We could have had three watcher results. or a watcher and two trackers (remember we don't know if Adele can track as well as watch because we dont know who Zoneace targetted.) Now we only have one watch answer. That seems suspect to me.

I'm not voting CKD at this moment but Cic'ro not happy.

for the record, who would you have rathered I jailed? Fonz? Shafted? DGB? Oh shea then because he doesnt have a power and it would be an obvious choice for scum to let make the kill if he was scum?...you? I jailed who I thought could be scum. It is easy to say my decision was scummy, but you didnt have to make the decision. If a kill hadnt gone through last night, would it have been "the scummiest move thus far?"...I think you need to think about that statement.

DGB?

Yvonne, why did you target the Fonz?

Shafted, why did you target Adele over Yvonne?

Trusted Adele more. Also to pass on my power.

good answer, I think I believe it

[curiouskarmadog]

I am trying to out think scum, but I guess you have a point, between the two I should have jailed Yvonne.

but this does give me a thought..

Mod, can I target myself?

[curiouskarmadog]

I got that from the time stamp...question for you, though..given that two independent people thought that was the best jail for me to do, if DGB was scum, do you think scum might let someone submit that kill other than dgb, since that was the obvious choice? also, has dgb claimed yet or am I missing it?

[curiouskarmadog]

I like how one hand, people say I am scummy for targetting Adele.

but on the other hand saying that Yvonne looks scummy....arent they both watchers?

again, answer the question...if a kill had not gone through last night, would I still be "scummy"? If I had targetted Yvonne last night..would I still be scummy? If so, why, because arent both Adele and Yvonne watchers?

I dont like how people are suggesting I dont use my ability. I am sure scum would just love that. No one thought I was scummy yesterday (except thinking I was the SK) when I targetted Gorgon. (WIFOM moment here), how does targetting Gorgon help mafia? At any rate, I target who I think could be scum. I obviously didnt send the kill last night. Of course, if I didnt use my ability, I am sure the mafia spin doctors would be saying I am obviously the one who submitted the kill.

you understand it is a lose lose here.

Cicero, please explain to me why you keep suggesting I am scum..if you have a case, present it..if you dont, quit eluding to it. Because right now, looks like you are trying to drum up support to see if it is worth pushing...I am calling you out..you have a case or not?

[curiouskarmadog]

if there had not been a kill last night...you would not be saying the samething. I told you I did what I thought was best for the town. Furthermore, if I feel someone is scum (even if it is a watcher) I will do it again. For the beginning of this game, I didnt like people telling me to do things based on my role. I dont like being directed...which is what people are doing by suggesting I am scummy for who I target or will target. I will use (or not use) my ability as I see fit. Maybe some of you are not interested in actually scum hunting, but I am. If you have a probelm with this lynch me. But I want to hear a clear case, and I want people to take repsonsiblity for my lynch the following day. I too would like to hear people's thoughts on Cicero's case.

please repost your case cicero, and where is your vote? if you really think I am scum, maybe you need a vote to back it up. I also wonder if you think I should be the lynch of today, especially provided that it is a confirmed fact I didnt submit any kills for the past two nights. I personally think, you are trying to see if people agree with you before you vote.

Adele, it remains to be seen if I am being persecuted for my actions. Also, adele, you did not answer cicero's questions about Yvonne.

[curiouskarmadog]

Why do you keep wanting me to repost my case? There's no lack of clarity. That's just weird. I'll also vote when I want to vote. For someone who doesn't like being directed, you seem pretty comfortable directing.

And yes - if there had not been a kill last night I would not be saying the same thing. But there

was

a kill last night. A kill that escaped scrutiny because somebody unnecessarily locked up a watcher.

please provide the post number that you supplied a "case" against me. Because your whole case is I jailed Adele last night and you dont except my reason why..thats it. So I am scummy because I chose Adele and there was a night kill, but I wouldnt be scummy if I chose Adele and there wasnt a night kill. So the whole reason I am scummy is because there was a night kill, for you wouldnt be attacking me right now if there wasnt. So you are blaming me because a watcher did not watch mathcam, how do you know adele would have targetted cam? How do you know that Adele is even town?

the only reason you do not have my vote at this point is a.) shafted confirmed your action yesterday, b.) you made note that I targetted Adele before I claimed I did (which means you made an action last night) and c.) I am only interested in lynching someone today who actually could have made the kill. Now the fact that you have not made a kill does not mean you are not scum, but I would like to go after someone who could have made the kill.

that being said, there are 3 scum in this game. unless my math is incorrect we are at 5:3...a mislynch today and a NK tonight means we a 3:3 tomorrow...and if I am correct, that means we lose.

Now you can keep barking up my tree cicero, if you want, but it is very anti-town to do so, especially since I am confirmed to have sent an action both nights and could not have submitted a kill...now, this means very little in regards to my alignment, but shouldnt you be trying to figure out at least WHO could have submitted a kill instead of trying to drum up support for me being scummy? I think Yvonne is one of our scum...I think she is the play today.

..if I am scum then please, I also want your thoery of who my scum buddies are.

[curiouskarmadog]

We need to fill TSQ's chair. I'd like to hear more from DGB and Fonz on this subject.

there is one thing you and I are both in agreement on.

[curiouskarmadog]

I dont like how people are suggesting I dont use my ability.

The problem here is that no-one suggested that. It was suggested that locking up watcher, motivator or doc would be scummy- locking up DGB, TSQ, or Cicero would have been strictly preferable to doing nothing.

CKD, you didnt have to target anyone.

How does targetting Gorgon help mafia? It doesn't, but it doesn't hurt, and anything anyone does that obviously helps mafia draws attention to said player and makes their lynch more likely. Given that you didn't kill, I don't see any reason for scum CKD

not

to jail Gorgon.

Any reason I provide here is walking further down the WIFOM territory. But you really cant see why targeting anyone else Day 1 would have been better for mafia if I was mafia?

My most important question here, is this. You've stated earlier that your criterion for jailing someone was that they looked scummy. So Adele looked scummy. Why have you not at any point in the game raised any point against her?

Read post 889 again. I reread before I chose, I thought the link between Yvonne and Adele looks slightly scummy. I don’t believe that Yvonne submitted a kill the day before, so I went with Adele. Question for you, after my explanation of why I did what I did you post 899, but did not mention that the action was scummy at all. Why do you do it now when it is now in fashion to do so?

If I knew (or felt) then what I know (feel) now, I would have targeted Yvonne instead. But look, that is still a watcher and I probably would be in the same place I am now. I am not sorry for what I did, I tried to stop a kill and find scum. I chose Adele (over Yvonne) because I felt no one would predict that I would do that.

Town, there are 3 scum left in this game. We are essentially at lylo. I am one of the only people in this game that can stop a NK. IF Fonz is scum, I am the only person that can stop a NK. They need to convince 2 of you that I am scum to hang me. Then it is up to Fonz to save the game at night. If Fonz is scum, the game is over. Some of you are really good analytical players and should be realizing that I am not really the play today. The mafia want me out of this game. You can label this as a plea for emotion (or a pity play), but I hope you really are thinking about what I am saying here.

It is confirmed that at least I haven’t submitted a kill. Shouldn’t the play today be someone who at least could have submitted a kill either night?

My vote stands..I think Yvonne is scum.

[curiouskarmadog]

cicero please address the bolded...

Town, there are 3 scum left in this game. We are essentially at lylo. I am one of the only people in this game that can stop a NK. IF Fonz is scum, I am the only person that can stop a NK. They need to convince 2 of you that I am scum to hang me. Then it is up to Fonz to save the game at night. If Fonz is scum, the game is over. Some of you are really good analytical players and should be realizing that I am not really the play today. The mafia want me out of this game.

You can label this as a plea for emotion (or a pity play), but I hope you really are thinking about what I am saying here.

It is confirmed that at least I haven’t submitted a kill. Shouldn’t the play today be someone who at least could have submitted a kill either night?

My vote stands..I think Yvonne is scum.

even though it is a certian that I did not submit a kill you want us to believe you think there is a higher chance that I am scum than others. You also want us to believe that you think I am the best play for a lynch today given that if you mislynch, the only person that can protect from a kill is fonz. You feel after he coached (in your words) Yvonne he is not scummy? Please explain why this is a wise vote.


What has change that now I deserve your vote?

should I be expecting Yvonne's vote shortly for no reason too?

[curiouskarmadog]

Those of you who have me very high up on the naughty list, could you please post an overall case as to why you think I'm scum? Put in as many tiny details if you want, as long as you think it's relevant to me being scum. Don't do word-heavy walls of text though. Keep it short and simple, thanks.

Oh, and no "I agree with Player X" after Player X has posted his case against me. Even if you have nothing new to add, rewrite the damn thing in your own words if you must.

put in tiny details, but you dont words of text...(laughing)..you are even directing how someone can provide a case against you.

here I will make is simple.

have you scum hunted at all this game?

you refused to go claim until Fonz practically told you (or gave away) the best claim for the moment.

You tried to direct me yesterday by telling me I should spend the rest of the game jailing gorgon, why, were you afraid I might jail someone else?

[curiouskarmadog]

also Mod, given that it is 5 to lynch, and we only have 5 townies..how is that replacement for shea coming?

also shafted (and this pains me) Cicero is confirmed that he didnt submit a kill last night, because he knew that I jailed Adele before I claimed I did. That cicero, is the reason you have not received a vote from me. I also believe shafted's claim that you targetted him last night.

still looking forward to cicero's response why I am the best play today. As a member of my "fan club" I look forward to this reasoning. Also would like to hear your thoughts on Yvonne at this point.

[curiouskarmadog]

So did Adele, and shaft.ed agreed as well. But I'm the only one getting called out for it and it's not even scummy.

Really? Adele didnt get call out for it? ever? I didnt call her on it yesterday? I didnt block her last night because I thought is was scummy? Question Yvonne, do you feel you did something that was worth getting "called out" on?

You see, I tried to use my watcher role and hopefully catch lying scum but some players refused to allow me to do my job properly. Other than that, I haven't gone after players as aggressively as others, but that shouldn't be counted as sitting back and doing nothing, if that's what you're saying. Also, multiple players are attacking me of being scum, it's terribly difficult to distinguish between those who are spouting nonsense and those who are actual scum. But I'm doing my best now, even as I speak, so don't you worry.

So your answer is no then? Funny you don’t have follow up questions? You are not trying to pry out information? Nothing bothers you enough to comment on? Nice.

I have a little surprise for you. Here it is: I wanted to do what is best for the town, which is by claiming last because I can catch the most amount of potential liars and I obviously know I'm town. But wait, didn't you just use "what was best for town" to explain why you locked Adele? So you should be excused for that, but I shouldn't?

Tell me Yvonne..at the point that I demanded that you claim, what liars did you think you could catch that hadn’t claimed yet?

Well, I would claim (in general) if it resulted in catching one of the watchers in a lie, which is possible. If Yvonne is scum, she has to make sure she doesn't claim to have seen no-one visiting the player I protected.

Whether is was a slip up or deliberate, Fonz let you know in this post that he did indeed protect and it was one just one player.

Also, good job putting words in my mouth; "spend the rest of the game jailing gorgon" indeed. Err, why don't you read back and see what I said instead of writing your own story.

Well, maybe one way to go about this, is for ckd to continue jailing Gorgon and see if there are still no SK kills.

I am sorry the “continue” lead me to believe that you wanted me to continue jailing gorgon until we figured something out. The mafia sure as hell wouldnt try to kill gorgon when they knew I was being directed to jail him, so at what point would we know something for a fact?

[curiouskarmadog]

what part of her defense is kicking our butt cicero? she doesnt have a defense...


and what did she do to change from this post?

Bleh.

Vote Yvonne

You wanted will of the town. Will of the town was received. Everyone overruled me. And I am highly wishy washy on this point. Do you think the scum are DG, Shaft.ed, CKD AND Fonz? Because by my count that's too many scum.

I think you might be caught scum after all.

jesus, I hope someone else is reading this thread.

[curiouskarmadog]

also. cicero could you please describe the case(s) against Yvonne and why they are crap, seems like you are going way out on a ledge for someone that has done absolutely nothing pro-town or helpful and you felt was scummy enough to vote earlier in the day.

she has done absolutely nothing but claim he watched Fonz after he spoon fed her the claim...why are you absolutely sure she is town?

[curiouskarmadog]

Incidentally, if you start thinking me and Yvonne are scumbuddies, the correct play is to LYNCH ME!!!!! NOT HER!!! I am about 80 times more expendable.

Cicero, if you are town you would not have posted this. IF we have a mislynch we are as good as dead. If you really are town, why would it matter if you are more exxpendable? One mislynch, who ever it is will kill this town...not to mention, if you are both scum, it doesnt matter who goes first...jesus, man you slipped up here.

I think now you are trying to divide up the votes...thats great cicero. yeah I think you are scum too...but you are not the lynch today.

I would like to hear everyone's comments on this post from Cicero.

[curiouskarmadog]

Your argument about Fonz coaching her was answered by Fonz himself. He would have already told her who he targetted if he's her scumbuddy.

ahh this is where you drop the logic ball my friend. Of course he if was scum he would tell her WHO he targetted. BUT, in his post he not only told her he did INDEED target ONE player last night. (meaning he wasnt motoviated or blocked)..if he was blocked for some reason or motivate he might not have had the chance to tell her. Interested on your thoughts on this now.

Let's look at this objectively because you and she are very much parallels. It's your behavior and defenses that are contradictory CKD. She wanted to claim last to catch liars.

if she is scum, who catchs her? By going last? Adele? I am sure scum would not give Yvonne the kill if they thought Adele would watch her.

Which do you think that I think is the safer bet for scum?

why does it have to be between just us? isnt there 3 mafia in this game? Why am I the best bet when I have confirmed actions each night?

Your action was the most anti-town thing in the game. And your defense is an insistence that your poor judgement was the right play, a cry of Indispensible Townie and a repeat push to rid the town of its OTHER watcher. Preferably backed up by the Doc.

I am indispensible at this point...and I think that you not only know that..you fear it. Please explain to me how lynching me at this point is the best option for the town.

And if you ARE town, don't blame me for your mislynch if it happens. Blame yourself. It was a bonehead play. Period.

Right now, I am not blaming anyone..it is just your vote at the moment, though I expect Yvonne's soon enough.

[curiouskarmadog]

Incidentally, if you start thinking me and Yvonne are scumbuddies, the correct play is to LYNCH ME!!!!! NOT HER!!! I am about 80 times more expendable.

Cicero, if you are town you would not have posted this. IF we have a mislynch we are as good as dead. If you really are town, why would it matter if you are more exxpendable? One mislynch, who ever it is will kill this town...not to mention, if you are both scum, it doesnt matter who goes first...jesus, man you slipped up here.

I think now you are trying to divide up the votes...thats great cicero. yeah I think you are scum too...but you are not the lynch today.

I would like to hear everyone's comments on this post from Cicero.

We are closer to a mislynch than necessary because of your play.

And we can survive my mislynch more easily than Yvonne's because hey - we have the doc AND the jailkeeper, right? That's why you are so indispensible. So if you are going to mislynch anyway - vote me. That leaves you with a powerful townforce in a tight situation 2 to 3 watchers, a doc, a jailkeeper. All my power does is let me give myself an NK alibi.

If I come back around to thinking Yvonne is scum that's fine. But if I don't, yeah, I'd rather take the lynch.

lol, that was a sad retort...now who is being the bonehead with logic? a mislynch no matter who it is bad. Why do you think that Yvonne is a mislynch? Why are you going out on a ledge for her?

what a minute, we are closer to a mislynch because of my play? Why is that?

[curiouskarmadog]

bold is me

Really? Adele didnt get call out for it? ever? I didnt call her on it yesterday? I didnt block her last night because I thought is was scummy? Question Yvonne, do you feel you did something that was worth getting "called out" on?

I'm sorry I don't think it's worth getting called out on. As I said, you jailing Gorgon had its benefits and it was a safe thing to do because we don't know your alignment and if you were the SK and targetted a hidden Gorgon, we lynch a townie Gorgon and no additional information is gained regarding who the SK might be. It wasn't as simple as 50/50. If you were the SK and you had to keep "jailing" Gorgon, you wouldn't kill unless you wanted town to know that Gorgon wasn't the SK. And as it turned out, Gorgon was the SK, so even if you jailed him one more night, it wouldn't harm you and he would still be a jailed SK and we might have lynched mafia yesterday. There is no reason why I'm scum for having suggested this. If anything, it's a matter of different opinions to optimal play.

When did you ever suggest that Adele might be scum for "directing" you? And what about shaft.ed? I'm not asking you to pile pressure on these two, I'm questioning the fact that I'm the only one being picked out for apparently doing something scummy when two other players did it as well.

I commented numerous times yesterday that I thought directly was suspicious. My whole explanation today of my night actions revolved around thinking Adele and you were trying to direct me...try again

So your answer is no then? Funny you don’t have follow up questions? You are not trying to pry out information? Nothing bothers you enough to comment on? Nice.

I am scumhunting as we speak. Specifically, I firstly want to scumhunt among those who think I'm scum, which is why I asked for the cases against me.

why werent you scum hunting before the pressure was added?

Tell me Yvonne..at the point that I demanded that you claim, what liars did you think you could catch that hadn’t claimed yet?

If I recall correctly, DGB and shaft.ed had not claimed yet. DGB has a shady claim yet again and shaft.ed targetted a jailed Adele. Either of these two could have made the kill and needed a safe claim.

LOL, exactly..and Fonz told you that he was not blocked nor was he motivated...going last really helped. Fonz your thoughts on this? Do you think that Yvonne's claim could have been affected by your post?

Whether is was a slip up or deliberate, Fonz let you know in this post that he did indeed protect and it was one just one player.

I don't see what this has to do with me?

of course you dont.

I am sorry the “continue” lead me to believe that you wanted me to continue jailing gorgon until we figured something out. The mafia sure as hell wouldnt try to kill gorgon when they knew I was being directed to jail him, so at what point would we know something for a fact?

We would know if there were no SK kills. And if the SK chose not to kill in order to implicate Gorgon, then all the better for us townies.

not the point of arguement here. You said I put words in your mouth. I didnt.

[curiouskarmadog]

OK I'm about ready to push for a cicero lynch. Only thing really holding me back is the fact that he is confirmed targeting Adele last night and I have to read up on him more. But not liking his recent posting much at all.

shafted, I would be more than willingly to agree with you, but you did argue that one reason I wasnt the lynch today because it is confirmed that I made night actions each night. Well you confirmed Cicero today and he knew I blocked Adele before I claimed...so he could be (though I am really doubting it at this point) a very very misguided townie. Shafted, your thoughts on Yvonne? Your thoughts on Fonz's post then her claim?

[curiouskarmadog]

bold is me

Your argument about Fonz coaching her was answered by Fonz himself. He would have already told her who he targetted if he's her scumbuddy.

ahh this is where you drop the logic ball my friend. Of course he if was scum he would tell her WHO he targetted. BUT, in his post he not only told her he did INDEED target ONE player last night. (meaning he wasnt motoviated or blocked)..if he was blocked for some reason or motivate he might not have had the chance to tell her. Interested on your thoughts on this now.

What difference does it make exactly. She's a watcher who watched the doc. Even if she was scum, its a safe move because it was the right move. You seem to be saying something like "he warned her so that she had more latitude in who she could pretend to have watched", when the easy move was still to claim him. And she would have watched him because she was more likely to need to report!!!". Why exactly couldn't he tell her he was motivated at night? There's a 24 hour period in this game where Night talk continues after all the actions are done. I know this because

it exists for me to use with my new mason buddy

. Any such chat could easily happen during that period. She'd already know about the motivating. There's no need to coach. Fonz's coaching was more likely a dumb town slip up than scum message passing.

Well, I dont know how the nights work, I dont know who is told what when. He did however tell her he was blocked in that post. That he could not have told her in the night. If she said she watched him and no one targetted him then DGB came back with that DGB did target Fonz, there would be an issue. However, FOnz "slipped up" and said he was not blocked..so Yvonne knew to say no one targetted him.

Let's look at this objectively because you and she are very much parallels. It's your behavior and defenses that are contradictory CKD. She wanted to claim last to catch liars.

if she is scum, who catchs her? By going last? Adele? I am sure scum would not give Yvonne the kill if they thought Adele would watch her.

Exactly. There's no way Adele did the kill and no way Yvonne did the kill. Because they are both under the most pressure to tell the truth. (Also note that Shaft.ed did the pro-town thing and targetted Adele for motivation.)

ATM, I dont think shafted is scum, what is your point?

Which do you think that I think is the safer bet for scum?

why does it have to be between just us? isnt there 3 mafia in this game? Why am I the best bet when I have confirmed actions each night?

Because your confirmed action was far more beneficial to scum than town. It's the best lead I've got. I mean I would suspect DGB for her wango tango logic, but... she's DGB. You, on the other hand, are CKD and you knew better than to lock up Peter Petrelli whether (s)he was scum OR town.

obviously I didnt. I wish I had targetted Yvonne instead, but it would have still been a watcher..

Your action was the most anti-town thing in the game. And your defense is an insistence that your poor judgement was the right play, a cry of Indispensible Townie and a repeat push to rid the town of its OTHER watcher. Preferably backed up by the Doc.

I am indispensible at this point...and I think that you not only know that..you fear it. Please explain to me how lynching me at this point is the best option for the town.

Simple. You're the best play available. You aren't indispensible if you're scum because you'll just lock up the wrong person... oh wait. Like you just did. The watcher is pretty indispensible too, no? Because if the doc does block (and remember he can be motivated as well), the lead might require the watcher. So this whole indispensability thing cuts both ways.

so you are going on the basis that the Doc is for sure town..man you seem to have a great hold on this game...first Yvonne is town, now the doc that slipped up and told her how to claim is also town. SO who does that leave as scum? ANd since targetting adele was anti-town, it must mean that shafted and DGB are my scum buddies...you are ridiculous.

[curiouskarmadog]

what a minute, we are closer to a mislynch because of my play? Why is that?

Because Adele might have watched Mathcam had she been given the opportunity. She also might have gotten caught in a lie.

so either Adele or whoever Adele MIGHT have caught would be lying...lynching the wrong one would be a mislynch...lets say I targetted Shea..we would still be in the exact same ratio town versus scum, try again.

[curiouskarmadog]

Fonz, read the thread, it was either a slip or you were coaching

CIcero, I didnt think you were scum because you defended adele. I am not being OMGUSy, your lack of logic, your change of heart, and your posts have eluded to your alignment. I think you and yvonne are scum, yes, but I dont think you are the right play. One of the reason I am not the right play is because I obviously made night actions both nights...I think you did too. Yvonne there is no way to tell. You keep mentioning that you might change your mind on Yvonne (given another reread), but you are willing to say "lynch me" instead of Yvonne..this again makes no sense. Lynching Yvonne gives us a lot more information than your lynch, and you know this.

[curiouskarmadog]

omfg, this game is giving me an ulcer

that scenerio would work, shafted, if Yvonne was scum instead of Adele...thoughts shafted? Also can you please post your current thoughts on Yvonne again (or a post number if they havent change from a previous post)?

I think both are scum..

this game really needs to hear from shea's replacement, Adele, and fonz....

[curiouskarmadog]

thank you for joining..looking forward to your thoughts.

[curiouskarmadog]

Who was the first one to tell you guys we were probably at lylo?

sweet christ you guys are really wrong here? I am at a loss why you think the best lynch of the day is a guy who is confirmed making night actions both nights. At least dont you want to lynch someone who at least COULD HAVE submitted a kill? There are 3 scum here, I wonder who is pushing for my lynch?

Well meet me half way...if you think I am scum and you think I am bussing Yvonne, can we please lynch her..on the freaking off chance that telling the truth?

Adele, your thoughts on why Cicero voted Yvonne, then once conversation has started to revolved around my lynching he now thinks I am scum and Yvonne must be town? Adele, your thoughts on Fonz's "slip up" and Yvonne's claim following?

[curiouskarmadog]

edit: "freaking off chance that I am telling the truth"?

since no

[curiouskarmadog]

one believes me...ugh...

so pissed

[curiouskarmadog]

2) Yvonne and The Fonz are not likely scum partners. Yvonne was very reluctant to claim today, but only my and The Fonz's targets where unknown. Since I'm only going to target from Yvonne, The Fonz or Adele Yvonne would have already known if the Fonz was motivated or not. This reluctance makes me believe they are not aligned.

I don’t know how night works, but if fonz’s was blocked, would he have been able to tell Yvonne that last night that he was indeed blocked if they are scum?

Cicero is confirmed by you shafted, in my book that goes with all the other claims that is “confirmed” by someone else. I happen to believe this claim, but it is not one that should be stated as fact.

Not sure what you mean by would have to be scum to work.

“cicero targeted Adele confirmed (CKD would have to be scum for this to work)”

I (town) target Adele (doesn’t matter). Cicero (scum) uses his ability to target Adele and got the failed claimed. This is confirmed because he was able tell Adele was jailed before I claimed….this actually could only worked if I AND Cicero were scum together.

After yesterday I was feeling that Yvonne was acting quite suspicious, but if I was wrong and targeted her, we would be wasting some valuable information.

How does that not apply equally to Adele?

Can you please provide the post number for this quote.

Any reason I provide here is walking further down the WIFOM territory. But you really cant see why targeting anyone else Day 1 would have been better for mafia if I was mafia?

Still waiting for an explanation of why Gorgon was an uniquely bad mafia killchoice.

Out of everyone in the game, please explain why Gorgon was better mafia kill choice than..shafted..Yvonne…mathcam..yourself..me?…I targeted Gorgon because I thought he was scum (I was banking on mafia).

Then you try the mathematical 'probabilities' argument, pointing out how if you're town and die, it's game over. I dislike this because a mislynch is likely game over anyway. We'd need to lynch correctly three times in a row whilst somehow preventing nightkills on three occasions. And on each evening, the 'only i can prevent a scumkill' argument applies, so if we're to keep you alive on the basis of that argument, we'd have to commit to you living to endgame.

If you are scum fonz, who can stop a kill? If there is a chance that either you or myself are indeed town…at this point we should not be lynched. IF we can hit scum today..and between you and myself stop a kill tonight..we will no longer be in lylo tomorrow..right? please explain how I am wrong.

You also try the 'I haven't submitted a kill' thing, which is almost certainly true, but then, of all the roles in the game, yours is probably the most confirmable and hence the least likely to kill as scum.

The point is I haven’t…so given this and the above fact, how am I a good choice for a kill today?

Fonz, read the thread, it was either a slip or you were coaching

Again, explain why.

Explain why what? Yvonne did not claim until you said that you indeed had made a protection. If you were scum together, you would not have been able to tell her if DGB had targetted you (at night). Once you told her that you were able to protect, she knew that DGB had not targeted you and she claimed she watched you and no one targeted you. Understand? If I am wrong here, please explain. This has nothing to do with shafted or Cicero. You can understand how that might look suspicious. At this point I don’t know if you were coaching, or just making a statement you thought was safe, but giving Yvonne enough information to safely claim.

If my logic is wrong here, please explain why.

[curiouskarmadog]

dont think you were directing that answer to me...I never suggested a no lynch

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok I don’t know how the night works. For some reason I thought the Doc was informed that their protection did not go through at the start of the day like Cicero received when he targeted Adele. Speaking of which, Cicero, did you get that PM during the night or during the start of the day? So Fonz is right, he did not convey any information to Yvonne in that post. But even with that, I still think Yvonne is scum.

After yesterday I was feeling that Yvonne was acting quite suspicious, but if I was wrong and targeted her, we would be wasting some valuable information.

How does that not apply equally to Adele?

Can you please provide the post number for this quote.

889, when you announce your jailing of Adele. I went back and looked it over.

I guess it does apply to Adele as well. At the time I made the decision, it didn’t seem like Adele was a “watcher”. I just saw someone that didn’t do anything the night before and had close ties to Yvonne. I thought the “valuable information” was comparing Yvonne’s claimed decisions from Night to Night. Adele had nothing to compare from the previous night. I thought that I was targeting someone that the mafia would not predict I would target…thus hoping that Adelescum might be submitting the kill. Like I have already said, I wish I had targeted Yvonne instead of Adele. Cicero (whether scum or town) is right…it was a boneheaded move in retrospect.

In reference to the Gorgon night choice conversation. Well, again it is a WIFOM argument, but if I was scum, I could have easily targeted shafted because I was getting scum vibes from him and attacked him pretty hard Day 1…I actually thought Gorgon and Shafted might be scum together, since I attacked shafted most of the day I thought Gorgon would be a move that the mafia would not predict thus stopping a NK…It turns out it did...but got the SK instead. At any rate, I have forgotten the point of this conversation. Are you saying that Gorgon was a good mafia choice because targeting everyone else would have made me look scummy, thus making me look scummy for trying not to look scummy? If I would have targeted Shea or mathcam night one, isn’t it the same argument? Now that I have targeted Adele I look scummy too. Again, this is sort of lose lose for me. I have based my targets trying to out guess the mafia…obviously this has put me in a heap of shit today.

[curiouskarmadog]

Targetting Yvonne would have been almost as boneheaded.

I disagree, at least if I had jailed Yvonne, I would have jailed one of the two I saw the link between Day one, and Adele could recieved shafted's power.

if we decide to no lynch, why are we talking about what mafia will or wont do...what they should or shouldnt do?

Personally I feel like Yvonne still should be the way to go, but would consider a no lynch if it would fix whatever apparent damage I did last night.

[curiouskarmadog]

yet no one seems to be worried if I get NKed...(sigh)

[curiouskarmadog]

I think no matter what, tomorrow we claim. Also, I think that the order of the claim should be random with a dice role. I see no merit in not claiming tomorrow and not having the order random.

[curiouskarmadog]

for shits and giggles Fonz, I think you should claim too...you have had two nights of not claiming...time you did maybe?

I dont care (for randomizer) I dont know anything about the dice option, can you cheat with it? If not we can use that..if it is really random, then I dont care who does it.

[/dice]

[curiouskarmadog]

I'd like a popcorn claim if we are claiming. Vote on the first person to claim, then the claimer passes the hot potato until everyone has claimed.

with three scum, not sure if this is a good idea...dice shoudl be just fine.

[curiouskarmadog]

dont like everyone voting to see who goes first, dont like popcorn, dont like two seperate player "generating lists"...I like dice..if there is no way to fake them..what is the issue?

[curiouskarmadog]

I have no problem doing a popcorn dice rolling thing

[curiouskarmadog]

I've become disinclined to support a No Lynch once again.

Unvote. Vote Curiouskarmadog

I see this as blackjack. I'm sitting on 16. Hit me dealer.

Cicero, why does your vote echo what appears to be a couple people's opinion atm? Why doesnt the fact that Yvonne has not answered shafted's questions bother you? Why should the fact that you dont seem to care what those answers are, not bother us? If you lynch me, and the NK is not protected against, this town loses.

I'm partial to CKD and my gut tells me that the scums are named Yvonne, Adele and Fonz. Which is problematic since they're the three towniest roles. The players who don't feel immediately scummy to me are CES (because of TSQs play more than CES's and that is mostly about TSQ's attacks on Zoneace, Shaft.ed and Dripping Goofball. However, smirking scum, obviously I'm a smart enough player to know that none of that means a damn thing.

you think I am anti-town for thinking that Adele could be scum and targeting last night, but on the same token you are pointing to a Yvonne, Adele, Fonz scum team..all of which have echoed your opinion today.

What happened to Yvonne is town? Why is she now scum? Why is fonz more of a towniest role than mine? You are inconsistent...why?


I no longer think you are very very misguided town..I think you are scum.

unvote, vote cicero

I think your buddy is Yvonne....I hope the third is not Fonz. You bussed her when the wagon was going her way. You attack me and adamantly defend her when the suspicions came my way...when the suspicions slowed, the wagon wasnt going to happen, and the talks of a no lynch swelled, you tried to look town and your vote went there. Then all of the sudden Yvonne is scum again. Now, the No lynch isnt taking hold, your vote returns to me...

This is scum if I have ever seen it. I didnt want to vote you because it is confirmed (through shafted for N1) that you made night choices each night, but as it has been pointed out...that means little.

[curiouskarmadog]

you are right they werent address to you...any reason you felt compelled to not let cicero answer the questions first? Adele, your stance on Yvonne at the moment?

[curiouskarmadog]

bold is me..

I've become disinclined to support a No Lynch once again.

Unvote. Vote Curiouskarmadog

I see this as blackjack. I'm sitting on 16. Hit me dealer.

Cicero, why does your vote echo what appears to be a couple people's opinion atm?

Check through the game and see if I'm a big ol' opinion follower. I look more to me to be kind of an out-in-front kinda guy. You apparently can't grasp the concept of honest vacillation, but that's ok. I don't mind.

like when you jumped on the Oman wagon, which Adele followed you on. you cant be an opinion follower and a vote leader at the same time?

Why doesnt the fact that Yvonne has not answered shafted's questions bother you?

It does. You, at the moment, bother me more. Looking forward to hearing what she has to say though.

Why should the fact that you dont seem to care what those answers are, not bother us? If you lynch me, and the NK is not protected against, this town loses.

I was hoping you'd say thing about how damn invaluable you are again so that I could cut and paste these posts I found:

I dont care who has what role, if someone is scummy, we lynch them, no one gets a pass.

Vote shaft.ed

spin it whatever way you need to, If I think somehting is scummy it will get my vote...I dont care about who has what role.

am I attacking them because they are suggesting we not lynch powerful roles, or because I dont think anyone should get a pass due to roles and dont like being told what to do with my vote or my "power"?

Well that was fun.

Were we in a lylo position then? I am also pushing for a yvonne lynch as well (who is a powerful role) Interesting how you dont take Fonz's stance on the situation, you want to imply I am a hypocrite instead.

you think I am anti-town for thinking that Adele could be scum and targeting last night, but on the same token you are pointing to a Yvonne, Adele, Fonz scum team..all of which have echoed your opinion today.

I think you're anti-town for targetting Adele. Which was the best chess move for jailkeeper scum and a terrible move for jailkeeper town. Thinking Adele is scum is pretty reasonable.

and if her vote accompanies yours, she is bussing then right? The fact that she hasnt really attacked anyone else today means she is bussing right? so you are voting me because of the "anti-town" move and not because you think I am scum? Tell me cicero, what have you done protown since you have been here?

I've liked Adele's posts when she's posted. Including the most recent one she made. Made her feel more townie to me. More importantly having misgivings in mafia is normal. Trusting one's gut about three players is a dangerous thing.

What happened to Yvonne is town? Why is she now scum? Why is fonz more of a towniest role than mine? You are inconsistent...why?

I'm indecisive because I'm a townie who's honestly indecisive. I can tell you one thing though. Throwing votes at me every time I come back to the idea that you're the play doesn't impress me even a little. Best of luck with the others though.

everytime?, did I vote you the first time? Sort of a misrepresentation of the facts Cicero. Matter of fact, the first time you did it, I thought you were just being a very misguided townie

I no longer think you are very very misguided town..I think you are scum.

That's fine. Jailing Adele was bad play. So is voting me. You should just come to grips that bad play 1 led to my vote for you and that will go a long way to stopping you from making bad play 2. I AM glad you finally came around to my way of thinking on one issue. IF you think Yvonne AND I are scum, you should vote me.

I am voting you because I think you are scum. I do think Yvonne is your buddy...but I would rather her out herself tonight with her actions and claims instead.

I think your buddy is Yvonne....I hope the third is not Fonz. You bussed her when the wagon was going her way. You attack me and adamantly defend her when the suspicions came my way...when the suspicions slowed, the wagon wasnt going to happen, and the talks of a no lynch swelled, you tried to look town and your vote went there. Then all of the sudden Yvonne is scum again. Now, the No lynch isnt taking hold, your vote returns to me...

Heh. It's like you've never played with me. I change my mind a lot as town. Go look. How about Mini 499 or go check out the recently completed mafia 69. I adamantly defended her responses to you. They were very good. Since then she's taken a powder. I don't know what her schedule is like. I think the outstanding question is a good one that needs answering. I just think you're a bigger problem.

I, sadly, don't know who to trust. It's a funny thing. I also know that people on mafiascum are excellent liars. Yvonne's responses to you were far better than your responses to her. At the moment I think you're a better play. Do I have misgivings about that? Constantly. Apologies for exhibitting a lack of confirmation bias. No wait. I'm not sorry at all.

I mulled the No Lynch. Look at when I changed back to you. Then look up and find Adele's post. And look at Fonz's. You'll find an odd thing happened. They changed my mind. You'll also note that I had already called my support of the idea tepid.

Hey - what about Adele. She was very high on your scumlist yesterday. So high that you jailed her. What's your opinion of her now? Why are all your attacks on Yvonne instead?

LOL, please tell me again why Adele was on my scum list last night..and you will see Yvonne there as well...so dont act like my opinion changes as much and as fast as yours.

This is scum if I have ever seen it.

Are you a betting man?

yes, are you?...do you remember my bet offer with ZA from 69 that he was so scared of to the point of pushing to have me modkilled for (of course that was ridiculous)?

How much do you want to bet I am scum cicero?..public humilation is the only real currency here.

Do you really think I am scum enough to put your mouth where your vote is (post game)?

[curiouskarmadog]

couple pages has past, need to catch up...see I have 3 votes..Adele and Cicero and I am not surprised about, I will probably be changing my vote back to Yvonne for obvious reasons, but I need to read what I have missed to be sure..should be caught up here in 24.

Question to be answered later (post game I think). If I was right on my initial read of Adele and she turns out to be scum, was it still an anti-town move to jail her?

[curiouskarmadog]

..should be caught up here in 24.

I said I would post here in 24 hours..I need to get caught up on 3 pages here...if you are going to do a meta...do a meta shafted and dont misrepresent me...if you note, the other games (8 or so total) I am modding or in I have not had time to say more than a sentence...some just like 3 words....this has my top priority if I have time tomorrow.

now, shafted...why did you feel the need to say I was avoiding the thread...when in fact I just dont have time to post something worthwhile?

[curiouskarmadog]

now, shafted...why did you feel the need to say I was avoiding the thread...when in fact I just dont have time to post something worthwhile?

I'm sorry that was bastardic of me. I just noticed you posting in our other game and was really wanting you to weigh in here because a lot is going on. Apologies.

I will today at some point today

[curiouskarmadog]

have a post coming, dont really have time to post (anything bigger than a sentence or two) today...hopefully this weekend, I should be able to get soemthing meaningful out...

[curiouskarmadog]

OK have a bit of time to address this thread…christ..got to go back to page 47 to get caught up…if this post gets too long, I will break it up.

You just reversed the bet. Gonna have to go for a double humiliation. Sure. I'm up for it. I bet you're scum and you bet I'm scum. Are you willing to bet that I'm scum? I asked you first and you switched it. So what are the stakes, big guy?

Fine I will take the bet. If I come up town, you have to post in the GD, that “CKD is the most superior scum hunter and mafia player known to this site and I bow at his feet”. The title of the thread should be something like “bet” And that is it, nothing more. If you come up town, I will do the same (except put your name instead of mine)…if for some reason we are both town in this game, we should be ashamed of ourselves, but the bet is nullified. Please don’t try to be sneaky. Post exactly what is indicated. I realize this bet is slightly immature and when you have to post it we will both probably be mercilessly trolled. But hey, that is how it goes I guess…agreed?

I think cicero is likely town. There's absolutely no reason for him to be scum and prevent a mislynch today by defending me, especially since I was the easiest target and we are in some sort of potential lylo.

First of all he did vote you today, second of all, this post is crap if you are scum together.

According to that kind of logic, we shouldn't lynch CKD and Fonz since they can stop NKs and cicero has two confirmed night actions.

I understand this was just an example, but not only can I stop a NK I also have two confirmed night actions. While fonz can prevent a NK and Cicero as one confirmed night action and an action confirmed by shafted, I have both. I am not in the same category. I am not the play today…it seems painfully obvious to me (of course it is my next in the noose).

So I don't understand why CKD thought it was a good idea.

already explained it.

But overall, if I were to place bets, I think he's more likely to be town than scum though he's awfully stubborn and refuses to see things from another point of view. It's almost as if he thinks anyone who disagrees with him is scum and he's also terribly afraid of players whom he claims are trying to direct him.

Fuck, I have to agree with this statement. This game (especially today) I have thought that almost everyone could be scum at one point or another. Usually at this point in a game, I have a feeling that someone might be town. I was leaning toward Shea/CEG, shafted, and DGB being town, but I don’t understand why DGB targeted Shea (there wasn’t a point) and CEG has his vote on me (and I am sort of confused why, but that could be OMGUS setting in). Shafted, has been one of the only people who has (slightly agreed with me)..but it is common scum practice to have at least one scum play opposites to the others. At this point I am down right paranoid.

-----
Interesting conversation between Cicero and shafted about their night conversation (page 48). Cicero trying to make shafted look bad referencing mathcam, but shafted misrepresented me later by saying I was avoiding the thread…guess it is Karma…both are scummy actions…again paranoia.

Glad Yvonne is participating now. The fact that Yvonne did help lynch Gorgon has no indication of her alignment. What bothered me was the fact she tried to (along with Adele) suggest that I continue jailing him, thus keeping me busy. That set off alarms!

In short, it looks like one must at least accept that what was being articulated was based on fear of mislynch without realising the implications of tying up a jailkeeper. At that point in time, we were 50/50 on Gorgon and Yvonne piped up with an off the cuff suggestion of how we might become more sure.

You are suggesting that the odds are stacked against the town and it looks townie for Yvonne to not want to lynch quickly. Well if you are going to defend her using that argument, why did she so hastily jump on the Oman wagon (a wagon you were the last vote on). Yvonne, feel free to jump in on this question too.


Cutting this post…another one coming.

[curiouskarmadog]

Unvote, vote: ckd

, 'cause I'm realizing I'd be voting for ckd come 'morrow if we no-lynch anyhow. I still think no-lynch is generally speaking a good idea here.

silly reason vote to jump on a bandwagon, what if I were to turn up dead tomorrow? You dont know what could have occured and you dont seem to be factoring in the claims tomorrow either...to say you are voting me now, because you will probably be voting me tomorrow, seems very short sighted. so, you got to have a better reason.


Adele’s vote and lack of reasoning is not surprised, 2 votes little reasons, so I get this straight, everyone knows we could be in a LYLO situation now right? If you think I am scum, you should be at least putting forth reasons why to help the town come to your same conclusion. Shouldnt you actually be, I don’t know, trying to scum hunt?



I think what is bothering me about Cicero and Yvonne right now, is the fact that Cicero is really going out on a ledge of Yvonne (someone who he did vote early in the day). At this point in the game, I am super paranoid of everyone and cant say I would say anyone was absolutely town. This bothers me.

Cicero’s vote on DGB was not expected, but again he strengthens that link between he and Yvonne.

I anyone going to address the whole cicero defended yvonne issue btw?

Man I brought this but days ago. The fact that he is defending her so at this point means one of 3 things. 1.) they are both scum together, trying to defend each other and each other’s actions (strength in numbers) 2.) Cicero is town, and is way too over confident in his town reads (note that Yvonne’s alignment doesn’t really matter here) 3.) Cicero is scum, and knows that Yvonne is town...ugh, that means that Yvonne would be town, which means I was off on my reads for the past 2 game days.

3 to me sounds like the most likely option…so, I guess that means my vote will stay where it is…(got to finishing reading though).

So if I was scum and wanted to go with the flow wagon, I would have picked Yvonne in a heartbeat.

unless she was (fill in the blank).

I've already stated I had no confirmation that Adele was blocked. I made this statement after cirero said he couldn't talk to Adele. I didn't think cicero could have been jailed because I was able to chat freely with him at night. Therefore my knowledge of Adele's jailing was purely from my interactions with cicero and had no bearing of my targeting Adele.

Actually this brings up a question I haven’t even thought about.

Mod: can someone jailed still talk at night if they have the ability to do so? If not, at what point are the stopped from talking?

Shaft.ed, I'll be able to talk to you if I'm in jail. I mentioned that already.

ok nevermind

DGB your case was based largely on Mathcam ties.

Also meta Yvonne. She rarely votes, it's not really a useful tell in regards to her play re the Gorgon lynch.

tell that to poor Oman

DGb is right. Your thinking here is too convoluted, shaft.ed.

My take: ZA was under lotsa suspicion and the scum took advantage of that. It does make it somewhat more likely that Fonz and/or Yvonne are scum(as it makes it a less risky enterprise for the scum), but not by much.

Now, back to no-lynch. I should have posted yesterday, but I am incredibly lazy on occasion and this was one of those occasions.

I think we can all agree the next lynch is pretty dang important. Yet there certainly doesn't exist a town consensus as to who's scum. I'd say it's fair to call this town conflicted. This is not a good moment for the town to be conflicted. I think this is strongly related to the lack of dead scum and obviously town people. That's why I strongly feel that the odds of mislynching today are significantly higher today than they'll be on any day to come. And I think we can up the chance of lynching correctly by about 10% if we no-lynch. And I hope the town'll be able to pull it together once we've caught one scum.

I consider the next day the major bottleneck in the road to victory. And I would prefer widening that bottleneck.

I am sorry, where is your vote again? And why?

[curiouskarmadog]

do you know what hasty means?

[curiouskarmadog]

hasty= impatient; impetuous; thoughtless; injudicious; unduly quick; precipitate; rash

Cicero impies that you could be townish by not wanting to jump on the Gorgon wagon so quickly, if you want to use that defense, please explain the hasty Oman vote.

[curiouskarmadog]

I'd support a lynch on DGB

Forgive me if I missed it, but have you mentioned suspicions of DGB prior to this?

I'd support a lynch on DGB over no-lynching, as an act of relative desperation. I don't think it's likely that she's scum, but I consider the town odds being better with a 30% lynch on DGB today than a more scum-lead lynch tomorrow following a no-lynch, since if DGB is scum we'll have that data to work from.

so then the answer to shafted's question was "no, you havent mentioned suspicions of DGB prior to this"..you seemed to avoid his direct question.

[curiouskarmadog]

and instead of saying you would support my,yvonne's, or dgb's lynch over a no lynch..what you are really saying is your would support anyone's lynch (other than yourself) over a no lynch..right?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm actually fairly sure Adele is town at this point.

based on what?

[curiouskarmadog]

well, they are someone else's "stances"..she has just agreed with them out of no where, but you feel that she is town for that...so your thoughts on the original person who thought DGB might be scum (yvonne)..what about cicero? If you like Adele's "stances" you must like thier stances as well, yes?

do you feel DGB is scummy? or just slightly less scummy than myself?

other than saying you dont like DGB/jdodge, but they werent giving you any solid tells, have you demostrated that you felt DGB is scummy any where? Seems to me that I can find a post or two where you agreed with DGB.

can you please provide me some posts that Adele has posted that you think are town tells that had contributed to your "intuition". Also, does it bother you that Adele has not displayed any suspicion of DGB before coming out and saying she would support a DGB lynch?

At least when Cicero walked out on the ledge to support Yvonne as being town he displayed some sort of "case" for it...you..just intuition.

[curiouskarmadog]

Let me get this straight, CKD. Adele and CES would vote for be because I'm "unreadable???"

What I am missing here?

where did I say I would vote you?

[curiouskarmadog]

That's a period, ckd. Not a comma.

why are you asking me DGB?

CES I have a reply coming later....

[curiouskarmadog]

what would the reason be?

CES, could you please tell me what Adele's "stance" is on DGB and why, as you see it. I just want to understand why you agree with her stance, when I am not sure I understand the why.

[curiouskarmadog]

obviously there is a break down of communication here...Cicero was implying that you are townish because you were hesitant to vote Gorgon....I am asking if that is true..why werent you hesitant to vote Oman? Still waiting for him to address this too.

[curiouskarmadog]

b) What I've said is that there was a possible townish motivation for wanting to have you jail Gorgon. It was because of the fear that we might be killing Sylar's target instead of Sylar. Given that Gorgon's phase power would be very useful to Sylar, this was a reasonable concern that all of us shared, and which even scum would have paid honest lip service to since they want to appear townie and we now know that Gorgon was not one of their team.

cicero, you have to agree that it could have been a possble scummish reason too..keeping me busy jailing a possible SK..

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD you said you wanted to find the shooter. What do you think of my narrowing down to CES, DGB and Fonz?

ugh, I do want to find the shooter, but I just cant shake this cicero/Yvonne scum thing...

my thoughts on those 3.

and even though I felt that Fonz was scummy earlier in the day because he was possibly coaching Yvonne, I obviously was wrong about that...I dont like the fact that I have no confirmation if he used his powers during the night, but since we are at a possible lylo situation, I dont know if I want to take a chance on lynching a possible role that could save us from a NK.

DGB, I dont think I have ever played with someone like DGB before. I really am at a loss. I am not sure why she said she targetted CES, it doesnt seem to make any sense...maybe she has explained this before, but I dont think i understood that either....

then there is CES who really is under the radar with shea gone missing and all the arguements today...

both DGB and CES are ?s to me...I do not think Fonz is the way to go today and (all things being constant) will not vote him.

[curiouskarmadog]

Cicero, if you are scum in this game, and you fucking pull a win, you deserve some sort of an award.

that being said, I see your point (with the last sentence)...unvote


if Yvonne is scum, she wouldnt know the alignment of Gorgon. Suggesting I should keep Gorgon jailed helps the mafia know the night actions of two people (one possibly being the other "group" against the mafia).

Yvonne, thinking back to Day 2 (the gorgon lynch). Now you said that Oman was an ok lynch because we had nothing to go on. Given all the claims Day 2, why were you hesitant in voting Gorgon, was there a better lynch or one that would have provided more information? Honestly I dont feel like your lack of vote (against Gorgon) should be a mark in your favor, unless your vote against Oman is a mark against you.

[curiouskarmadog]

can anyone track you?

[curiouskarmadog]

No they cant watch her. And what's worse, if the watchers decided to watch TSQ/CES, what DG did last night would preclude them from seeing anything TSQ/CES might try to do. (By which I of course mean shoot somebody).

Which means she's a rockin' choice for a jail cell if she lives through the day.

wait what? lets says DGB targetted CES and CES shot mathcam last night...and Yvonne watched mathcam, she couldnt have seen CES shoot mathcam?..why, she didnt target CES she targetted mathcam....

also, please..sweet jesus, please..dont tell me who to target, this obviously makes me angry because I am not down for providing information to scum..are you?

[curiouskarmadog]

that is what I thought

[curiouskarmadog]

I have heard a lot (defined as none) of CKD impression, and that is by far the worst...

thinking on the no lynch and I believe it might be a good idea, if both the watchers are indeed scum, this could all go to a bad place, it might turn into a he said/she said type situation.

I hope we will be doing the dice rolling popcorn claims tomorrow...if anyone has a problem with that, I would like to know why and today.

vote: no lynch

[curiouskarmadog]

I hope we will be doing the dice rolling popcorn claims tomorrow...if anyone has a problem with that, I would like to know why and today.

Yeah, I do.

First off, because I have no idea what "popcorn"

is

Second because I think a decision should be made on how the watchers should claim tomorrow,

today

. I think that the watchers should go either first or last - I see merits to the argument that it's (apparently) best in game theory for us both to go last, but I also hear concerns that we're scum so see benefit to us going first or last dependent on a dice roll.

Aside from that, I don't see the argument against the chainclaim or for a "popcorn" claim, whatever that is - and I don't like methodologies that not everyone understands being employed, as there seems a danger of undue influence.

I meant just dice (not popcorn). One person rolls the dice, given the number of players left in the game...if that number is up , you claim...then that person rolls

Example:

1.) Adele
2.) Cicero
3.) curiouskarmadog
4.) DrippingGoofball
5.) shaft.ed
6.) Cogito Ergo Sum
7.) YvonneSeer
8.) The Fonz

somebody rolls the dice....lets say it is a 5.

Shafted claims..Shafted rolls the dice excluding his name

1.) Adele
2.) Cicero
3.) curiouskarmadog
4.) DrippingGoofball
5.) Cogito Ergo Sum
6.) YvonneSeer
7.) The Fonz

Shafted rolls a 3, I would claim..etc etc etc.

I dont think the watchers should get to decide when they claim, frankly I dont trust you and dont see why anyone would have a problem leaving the claims up to chance. This provides the mafia time tonight to plan their attack and how to claim tomorrow..and that is bullshit.

If we do this, all should worry more about doing the best move for town than in being all surprising and shit. Cuz surprising might get you mislynched. It almost did today.

I will do what I feel I need to do, what I wont do is agree to anything so the mafia knows before the night.


why is it everyone wants to give the mafia so much damn information before the night?

[curiouskarmadog]

I will do what I feel I need to do, what I wont do is agree to anything so the mafia knows before the night.

Yeah my impression wasn't anything like this.

OK one thing I'd like to adjust. I move that we strike CES from the rolling list as he isn't likely to claim he targeted anyone and it will slow down the process come claim time.

that is fine, I just put him in the example...everyone should dice role.

lovely, Adele refuses to do things randomly..nice...and her vote is on me for being anti-town.

[curiouskarmadog]

shafted, I have never gotten a "dense" vibe from Adele.

Adele, please explain to me why you have a problem leaving the claims up to chance?

[curiouskarmadog]

you vouching for Adele means exactly crap to me.

please explain why dice are sub-par.

[curiouskarmadog]

we did have conversation, a great deal of it...

given that excuse, why didnt you remove your vote on Oman...maybe "the scum might have slipped up in their desperation to lynch anyone"...anyway the point really doesnt mean anything unless you are really pushing that not voting for Gorgon is proof that you are pro-town.


your thoughts on current conversation like a No Lynch and dice claiming tomorrow?

[curiouskarmadog]

so you are for an order that scum CAN influence, but that is perfectly pro-town? do you consider dice anti-town? if so, why?

[curiouskarmadog]

how will a listmaker favor the town? And so I assume you ARE in favor of an idea that the mafia CAN influence versus one they can not?

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD is the only player I'd trust. No offense, cic.

But yeah. Popcorn should work.

I have no desire to do a list, but thanks

[curiouskarmadog]

vote no lynch

..if I havent already.

[curiouskarmadog]

I think fonz said he would claim? I dont think he has commented on the dice thing.

Adele said she would only go first or last, lets role the the dice and see where she falls before making a huge deal out of it...maybe she will go first or last and it wont be a problem...I think we should worry about that tomorrow.

[curiouskarmadog]

thinking back..

Adele, at the start of the day when we were all claiming, you were about to claim who you targetted, of course you couldnt have targetted anyone because I jailed you. But you did submit that you were going to target someone last night. I assume it was a watcher ability...at what point were you told that that action had failed?

[curiouskarmadog]

is it bad that I only understand about 50% of what DGB says?

[curiouskarmadog]

right I got that, but WHEN did you recieve that notification? I figure last night, but I dont want to assume.

[curiouskarmadog]

Cicero, same question, when did you get your results? In this case that your attempt had failed? I asked before, and I think you said at night..but what I am wondering is when at night? 5 minutes before like adele?

[curiouskarmadog]

so that I understand, usually you get 24 hours to chat after results are given. However, since I jailed adele, 24 hours was not needed, and the Mod started the game right after the Pm results. right?

Now, we could use Shafted here to verify this. Shafted, N1 were you given 24 hours to chat with Cicero after you joined his network? Did you know last night that Cicero received a "fail" when he tried to recruit Adele? If so, when last night? Did you know that Cicero was going to try to recruit Adele? Sorry if some of these questions are repeats.

This is just some information I would like out in the open today.

[curiouskarmadog]

ok, everyone has suggested who i should jail tonight..I will make that desicion on my own. I do not want the mafia to know what I am going to do tonight...I do not what the mafia to know (the order) in which we will claim tomorrow..basically I would like to keep mafia knowledge to a mininum today so it will be harder for them tonight to make a choice for a NK and decide who and what to claim tomorrow.

also, Cicero, while I wait for shafted, did you tell shafted last night you were going to target Adele, or was that never discussed...if it wasnt discussed, why?

[curiouskarmadog]

I am taking in everyone's suggestions.

At the moment, I am voting for a no lynch...but I am still gathering information today.

Most likely my vote will stay there. What it boils down to today is if we mislynch today and mafia get a NK tonight..we lose..simple as that. Your thoughts on that Fonz? You see, I dont trust anyone at this point. I have no proof that you are actually town...which means I cant trust you to actually stop a NK as far as I know, you are the one sending the night choices.

I think at this point, no lynch is the best idea..

[curiouskarmadog]

how is it in our favor at all to possibly mislynch today at possibly Lylo, then no lynching today, hopefully gaining more information and possibly mislynching tomorrow at lylo?

also again look at if from my point of view, Fonz, I dont know if you are scum or not...if we mislynch today and you are scum we automatically lose, since I can not target myself unless I can correctly stop (target) the killer.

In an ideal game I would like to lynch scum today versus a no lynch, but I at this point am paranoid of everyone.

[curiouskarmadog]

I assume that also means Cicero didnt tell you he recieved a fail last night.

[curiouskarmadog]

shafted, are you notified if you have a failure at night?..at all?

[curiouskarmadog]

doing 2 things.

trying to figure out if Cicero is as cleared as I thought he was today. Meaning I immediately thought that Cicero performed a night action because he knew I targetted Adele without me claiming yet. However, If both Adele and Cicero are scum together, Cicero could have submitted the kill last night, and Adele could have provided to him that alibi. Cicero could have performed the kill and once adele knew she was blocked somehow at night she could have told Cicero that last night, thus giving himself an alibi. I was asking you questions to see if Cicero indeed mentioned to you of his intentions (bringing in Adele)..which apparently he did not. The timing I felt was important because Cicero mentioned he was given 24 hours to chat with networked people (that you might have confirmed), but when his action failed he is notifed right before the day starts (still an unknown).

the second thing I am trying to do is maximize the confirming of actions tonight. I wonder if Cicero tells Shafted if he received a fail notice tomorrow night and who it was on in a PM before the day starts would help us tomorrow to confirm Cicero's claim. I understand not trusting each other, so I dont think it is necessary to say who you plan on targetting before you do it, but if you get a fail notice, I think it is important to give that information to shafted at night before the claims begin.

of course if Adele, Cicero, and Shafted are all scum together that whole idea blows ass and is useless I guess..but still

is there any reason that Cicero notifying shafted tomorrow night of a fail and failed target (AFTER the fail) would be bad for us?

[curiouskarmadog]

Cicero I think you are right..if Adele targetted someone that I or DGB had targetted she still would have gotten the fail, but you could have still targetted her..

just trying to get my mind around this game...trying to find anything that might hint a clue..

I also guess you are right that telling shafted you failed attempt might undermine the random claims...if shafted was scum, knowing that going into the night, he could submit the kill then use whatever info, you might provide him to give him an alibi..

jesus, this would have all been easier if Gorgon was scum and not the SK..

[curiouskarmadog]

I do not think anyone should discuss anything until we have claimed. No hints..no anything.

1.) Adele
2.) Cicero
3.) curiouskarmadog:
4.) DrippingGoofball
5.) shaft.ed
6.) The Fonz

Original Roll String: 1d6

1 6-Sided Dice: (4) = 4

[curiouskarmadog]

Fonz you are up...eliminate your name after and roll the dice.

[curiouskarmadog]

I targetted CES

1.) Adele
2.) Cicero
3.) DrippingGoofball
4.) shaft.ed

Original Roll String: 1d4

1 4-Sided Dice: (3) = 3

[curiouskarmadog]

Cicero's turn.

[curiouskarmadog]

Adele, I knew you were scum. I did not target Yvonne in any fashion last night.

Vote Adele

Why did CKD target CES? Is there a reason for that?

I was planning on either targeting DGB or CES way before Cicero posted his little post about doing that to help the town tomorrow. Cicero

did

make me feel stupid yesterday for targeting Adele (even though I felt she was scum) because everyone claimed the targeted her. I thought tonight people would targeted her to give her abilities she missed out on the night before, funny no one did that except Fonz. At any rate, I also thought DGB and CES would be good targets last night because I didn’t throw much suspicion there way yesterday and again I tried to out guess the scum and who would send the kill. I figured that CES didn’t have a night choice so if he was scum, they might have him send it. I also figured that DGB and CES would be kills last night because due to conversation yesterday no one was going to jail or protect them (most likely)


Today is going to boil down to a choice, do you believe Adele or myself. Yvonne was the only person yesterday that didn’t vote me (I think) when I pushed to hang her because I thought she could be scum. After all the heat yesterday really want to town to believe that CKDscum killed Yvonne ? If I was scum, targeting anyone else would have been better than targeting CES. I understand this is a WIFOM defense, but seriously, that would have been a horrible play scum. Adele you are a liar, and I hope the town doesn’t believe it.

Also after all the crap you gave me yesterday, why didn’t Cicero and shafted target Adele?