New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Aneninen]

11 Pages? Oh My Gods.
I'll catch up as soon as I can, but frankly, IRL is busy here both today and tomorrow.

[Aneninen]

I start catching-up soon, although I doubt I'll be up-to-date today. Reasons will be revealed tomorrow.

If there anything I should be particularly aware of, point it out, please!

[Aneninen]

VOTE: Ircher

why?

Questioning a naked RVS which is not even on you? Why?

VOTE: Ircher

why?

Its RVS.

Why are you already defending him?

That wasn't a defense.

Why are you already defending him?

VOTE: Ircher

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

And the cooper ircher buddying continues!
VOTE: ircher
I'm almost sure of this now.

It's Page1...

can you pls provide at least 4 reasons why ircher is town

ON PAGE 1???!

If you caught Ircher scum on page 1 I'll be happy to go next.

^^
Town.

HURT WITH A BLADE: Shotty

Well, I'm glad I did it first.

Why do I think both moves were fake? ^_^

Pedit: And how often you draw scum?

Bad question. Gamblers' Fallacy, you know.

You are pretty crappy then.

I'm crappy for being good at being scum?

Whut?

Whatever, theoretical != practical probability. Some people are lucky, others arent.

Whut? What do you call lucky? Drawing town or drawing scum?

Your score, 27.6% is quite a bit on the high end. So, yes, experimentally, you are more often scum than normal.

NoNOnoNOnoNO, stop that, Ircher!
According to this logic, you must think I'm scum because I was so in both games we met in. ^_^

Only 5/21 players have posted so far and we're already on page 3, almost page 4...

Unvote

I'll be back when there's something worth reading...

Why announce this? This seems off.

Actually he was right.
By catching up I thought the same. So far those "noisies" can go either way. Townreading Copper, see above.

[Aneninen]

If you caught Ircher scum on page 1 I'll be happy to go next.

VOTE: Cooper

No, Titus.
Or at least, I can tell this: I often use the same logic as town.

Cooper RVSes Ircher.
If Cooper thinks Ircher is scum, why would cooper be ok with being lynched for being correct? If cooper thinks Ircher is town, why is Cooper still voting him?

Okay, I might be biased because of my own gameplay, but I often keep my RVS despite my reads for a while, before I find a real scumread.

Well at least RVS is over

Didn't you post it before that most of the players hadn't posted anything at all?
Therefore,
Announcing that is bad and you should feel bad.

Egg's 103 <--- Townpost, based upon on recent direct meta.

Killthestory, then why didn't you answer directly? And why didn't you say you were town the first time you brought it up? How often would you say you lie as scum?

Ircher, "1" is correct and obviously wasn't my point. And I disagree with your "2" or I wouldn't be voting you.

this is honestly one of the stupidest posts ive ever seen

Not worse than most things happening on early-Day-1.
Btw, townvibes; because of posts like this. (A kind of "I'm town and I can't trust anything or anyone" game-start.)

Defending yourself is stupid. It's something I found out a long time ago. Find the

actual scum

focus the fuck on them. That's why when someone accuses me of tunnelling the first thing I ask my suspect is who the hell is actually scum. Talk about that. Which do you think are scum diverting from Copper?

I seriously doubt Titus would be coaching Ircher in such a blatant way. It's more likely that she wanted to remove some noise. And it's very likely that they're not scums together.

THATS THE STUPIDEST THING IVE EVER HEARD HOW CAN ME TELLING YOU IM TOWN SWAY YOU IN ANY WAY AT ALL
AT ALL
WHAT

Is it something personal between you and Egg? If not, I don't get it.

not buying titus' copper stuff btw

but I do
VOTE: Copper

You took the effort to make a quote-wall out of Irchers' with a conclusion of "null". Then you posted a sheep-vote for Copper.

The whole statistics discussion is stupid and doesn't read natural. Feels like a poor attempt at distancing to me, as does Ircher's "go vote shotty". VOTE: Ircher
Copper case has no real merit imo. Copper had no reason to unvote/vote anyone else, but also no reason to actually believe Ircher was more likely to be scum than anyone else at the time.

Primarily because in this post, he is setting himself up to vote for both Shotty/Ircher as opposed to taking one side. It looks like he's trying really hard to agree with both players at the same time.
Also, I want to see him under pressure.

He may be right. I should pay attention to TehBrawlGuy on the forthcoming pages. (I found his 171, which was "reactive".)

I am interacting w Copper but as of now, his trajectory is crap.

Show me that trajectory.

VOTE: Nosferatu

???

If I am scum that would be a serious problem, accidentaly lynching your own teammates

or the sk

, effectively reducing the kills per night in a large game will lead to your demise

Where DID that highlighted part come from???!

UNVOTE: Copper223
Don't take it seriously Copper, I'm not like those idiots that chase at you with ropes for hanging just because you're Copper.
This is getting too stupid, why can't we just get along, the adventure haven't started yet and we are already quarreling and sending death threats just because, all that preparations for nothing.

Whut?!

For real though, explain 174, because I actually can't parse that into anything I understand.

Copper said I will laugh hard as scum if I flip scum in my lynch, which is a contradiction,

since lynching sk as a mafia goon

early in this game is serious trouble as there will be less kills per night, giving the Town more time to correctly lynch the mafia.

???!!!!!!!!!

Also quick thoughts,

Scum team: Titus, Ircher, Copper
3rd party: Zakk

That makes very little sense. Those players are very unlikely scums together. And yet again, where are those posts about having a third party from?!

________

8 pages so far and I don't think I'll have time for more today.
Thoughts right now.

Could be town:
Titus (something I can't put my finger on is there in her posts which is there when she's town)
Egg (mostly recent direct meta)
Killthestory (see above)
Copper (although his 167 is not good)

Could be scum:
Ircher (those statistics + his townplay I know was very different)
Zakk (too much early noise and 85)
Shotty (too much early noise and I don't know whether it's relevant or not but that 185 bothers me)
Seth (basically everything so far)

No real opinion on the others yet.

[Aneninen]

So, I'm going on with the catch-up.

persivul and titus are town.
also I 100% agree with #160. This was the first post that really read scum-cautious to me. VOTE: tehbrawlguy
seth is newbtown. shotty is town. meh or irch, he's not reading town, but he hasn't crumbled under pressure either.

I'm curious whether there will be explanation on any of these reads from him.

If not

, Lowell, where were those reads from? Do you think the same things right now?

He is very easy to read. Look at how he treats Copper and Titus and the way he reacts to everyone else. He have never been real scum before and is flailing not knowing what to do.

How many times have you met Ircher so far? In both games I have he was on his way to mislynch early-game. (Unfortunately, he was lynched in neither cases. Unfortunately, because I was scum.) Despite my reads on Ircher (partly based on meta) this post looks like a lazy explanation.

@Shotty,
If anything, your play looks aggressive one moment cautious the next. You're hyper focused on Ircher being scum. You also have Copper and I both as scum. That reads list is ridiculous and puts you in a position to jump on Ircher/Copper whichever is popular. You also seem to not have a stance on TBG.

As for the first part, I found the same while catching-up. I didn't notice the second part, though.

tbh i dont know where sk even came from but i assume it's on one of the pages i didn't read.

in any case, that's not why i'm scumreading you in the least. it's not even a factor.

You mentioned pages 2–7 before. And nothing there.
The whole SK-topic just popped in. Re-checked my catch-up; the topic appeared first in Seth's 174.

I was in shotty's most recent scum game, and this doesn't feel the same. In that game, he largely commented on other player's posts about other players, i.e. tried to appear active without really pushing anyone. In this game he's pushing.

That's true. But his reasons don't seem strong and/or genuine.

On an initial basis I have to say I disagree with your meta read on Shotty. I have two specific markers I read for in him and he’s really not showing either to this point. And it is very early.

Any explanation on this?

i'm a really gut-based player. i like concrete evidence a lot, but i always begin with gut and figure out why later.

Sp psuedo science instead of science.

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

As if there were no other intuitive players.

As for the whole Shotty/ETL talk on the same page, I think Shotty was either misinterpreting or misrepresenting ETL.

ok. it's based on my last experience with him, which was only a few months ago, and he was aggressive as scum.

That was about Persivul. My last experience with him is about a couple of days old and he was aggressive as town.

I was making a joke is my damn point!
Also you are mad that I'm not OMGUS'ing ETL? What? They very fact that they are pushing me right now is why I don't have a read yet. Like I said before any opinion I have will be tainted.

Posts like these sound so "calculated" in my mind.

Meanwhile, Persivul's 278, 283. These are very similar to his recent towngame.

Again why the fuck are you pushing so hard for me to attack ETL?

she wants to see my reaction.

???

Going on soon.

[Aneninen]

...
I choose the names out of the list at random cause I wanted to increase the pressure on Seth .
...
@Seth
If you are hard claiming SK we can use you as a vig and give you brownie points when we win, how about it?

What was that last part? And how did that add up with that line above?
Also, you picked a single post from Magma for quoting in the same post. Why him?

Also, Magma's answer (307) and Copper's response (308). Why do I have the feeling they wanted to change the topic of the game here? (Or how can I phrase it.)

ProjectMatt's 317 was sheer fence-sitting.

actually i think copper and shotty may both be scum and if multiball, same team. is multiball allowed in normals? i dont even know, it's been about a year maybe since i played a normal.

Aaaaaaand if it's a Multiball, we should remember this!
In that case it could have come from a scum faking lack of information. I've seen scums doing so before and I myself have done so before.

ircher's newbietown AF imo.

He's very far from being a newbie now.

Also, we should remember that Zakk's 349 was lacking real scumreads.

Ill try to do isos over the weekend, but from going through and reading, Lies esp. strikes me as town so far. Anen's one post has struck me on scum side since its similar to the way Anen acted in Mechanics UPICK (Micro 600). Ill do other people later.

Whut?
At that point I had had one post and zero content!
In Mechanics UPick I had been at L–1 (even fake-hammered) on Page1, before my first post!
What are you talking about?!

I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now
VOTE: Ircher

ewwww

Parrotting this.

However

, I didn't like the speed of the wagon on CytheFlyGuy either! Zakk: 369, Titus: 372, ProjectMatt: 374. The latest one is simply lazy (especially because he quoted other things in his post before the vote), the other two are WTF! Two players had been producing reasons and reads before – but moving the vote because of one single thing!

I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now

VOTE: Ircher

Can you please elaborate on this? You have only made 2 posts so far and you are sheeping, why can't you tell us a good reason that Ircher seems most scum?
VOTE: cytheflyguy
I will retract my vote if you give me a sufficient explaination

GHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
And this one was the worst!
Sheeping the quickwagon, asking for explanation BUT voting at the same time. If CytheFlyGuy is scum (which is a possibility, that post from him was terrible indeed), Seth could have been panic-bussing him here. I know it's speculative and it's merely a feeling but it's still there.

________

Almost there!

[Aneninen]

i have nothing against egg, but i simply cannot understand why hes scumreading me for saying that im obviously going to pick the right choice, which is town. asking me my alignment is so fucking dumb

Okay.

It's not wrong to assume there is an sk in a large game, saying there is an sk in a large game does not make me scum. If there isn't one then this game is heavily in favor of us.

There are many other possibilities. Eg. 17:4 with plenty of scum-PRs or 15:3:3 No, having an SK in the Setup is absolutely not obvious.

Explain.

I was wondering whether you OMGUS-ed him.

tbg is scum. lotta words with zero actual content. he never explains why he thinks what he thinks beyond "it didn't sit right with me".
VOTE: tbg

Erm, he's almost as low-content as CyTheFlyGuy. Therefore this vote is almost as lazy as the Cy-votes.

@anen, so you'd deliberately have your vote on a townread?

As I said, I tend to keep my RVS until I find a scumread; regardless of my actual read on my RVS. So, that's not a tell in my eyes.

Anen, I'm curious what meta point you think you have on me. My 103 is null at best. It's just me catching up. I hope you're not scum just looking for a reason for an easy town read on me. You've seen me play well as scum so you not being paranoid of me has me worried that your town read might not be genuine. Although I think you did it last game too and I didn't question it because you were already obvtown when I replaced in. So maybe I'm overthinking it. Also, on drmy and zakk, is early noise really a scumtell?

Meta = Killer Instinct. Your style is very same as it was there. Also, I remember your SK-game (it took place a year ago or so) and it was very different. On early-Day1 that sort of read is enough for me.
Early noise isn't essentially a scumtell

in itself

, but there were (and are) other things too.

From what I've seen, players quoting other games tend to be town. Would anyone agree or disagree?

I don't think it's a tell.

Ircher's 412. I don't know what to think that kind of posting. Long ago I saw a scum doing the same, but he was a replacement.

The reason why I think this either has multiple scumteams or an SK is because its a large & would run too slowly without some extra kills.

Current Speculations:

Shotty, Cythe - Mafia A
Copper, Zakk - Mafia B

Assuming a Multiball is not better than assuming an SK.

Lynch me if you want. I can be more use later. Right now I'll just be a potato and see how the votes go (This is my first macro game, after all)

Whut?
Either I'm misinterpreting this unintentionally or this was just a kind of "playing the newbie card".

Why is Shotty town? He's literally been trying to find every single minor reason to scumread me.

Wait-oh.
Shotty was doing plenty of other things too – yet your opinion on him is based

alone

on his attitude towards you.
Why?

Expedience, 442. Can you explain your Shotty, Lowell and KillTheStory reads?

This reeks of coaching. I take it scum don't have daytalk, eh?
VOTE: Titus
Sorry, friend. You gots ta go.

Another assumption, this time about Daytalk...

Titus. Is there something behind that "Sorry, friend" ?

Tired, also a little tipsy. Will catch up in the morning, but posting now to tell you all I'm not dead.

I don't like the way he's "flying under the radar".

[Aneninen]

So, here's what I think now.

Town

Egg (partly meta, partly because his efforts look genuine, which back the meta I know)
Killthestory (no change on him)

Lean Town

Titus (also partly meta; I don't think she's right about Copper, but, she's trying to get another reads too, meanwhile. But, her Cy-vote was lazy.)
ESL (she reads quite a lot of things in the similar way as I do, but there are those disturbing bits, see my previous posts!)
Persivul (not enough content yet, but I can imagine this is the town-Persivul I know well)
Expedience (like his catch-up so far. Egg asked about his reads and he answered quickly. As I get good answers too, he may move to Town)

Conflicted

Copper (my early read got weakened, eg. 304 and around)
Ircher (plenty of disturbing things. His town-meta was different, that "scumread" on me, etc. But, these "statistic-posts" is typically something I can imagine from town-Ircher.)

Lean Scum

Zakk (no change and that lazy vote)
Shotty (I'd add this to my previous read: his scumgame I saw was indeed different, but it seems he's misrepresenting things)
CyTheFlyGuy (his posts are terrible, BUT so was that quickwagon on him, which makes me think: what if he's just an easy mislynch?)
TheBrawl (At my early-catch-up I marked him as "pay attention to", and the fact he's been under the radar since then is not a good sign)
ProjectMatt (fence-sitty, that 373–374

together

... my very early town vibe has evaporated)

Scum

Seth (SK-speculation, lazy vote, no scumhunting...)

There are a couple of players not on the list. Either because of the lack of content or because I haven't formed an opinion yet. Or I simply forgot about them being in the game. (If the latter one turns out, that's not a good sign.)

VOTE: Seth

[Aneninen]

@Anen
Do you have game-time with KTS?

Do you mean meta on KillTheStory? No. His posts show genuine scumhunting plus paranoia.

Magma asked me a question hence the quote and why I addressed him.

I must have missed it then. (No surprise, I had to catch up with 20 pages or so.)

What about the last part, if Seth is SK, he slipped up and is ready to admit it (as he has an above average chance of getting lynched anyway), we can use him.

I would never trust a claimed SK.
I don't know whether Seth is SK or not, but I do think he's scum. In 183:

"Copper said I will laugh hard as scum if I flip scum in my lynch, which is a contradiction, since lynching sk as a mafia goon early in this game is serious trouble as there will be less kills per night, giving the Town more time to correctly lynch the mafia."

– Infromation instead of analysis. His other posts are not better either, including that jump on the Cy-wagon (right after it gained momentum.)

[Aneninen]

I get the part where you say me against the world is a town-tell but which posts do you find indicative of scumhunting for killthestory?

96 – it's a valid reason for a vote that early. Something stood out for him, I guess.
109, 114, 117. – That's what I called "sheer paranoia".
131 – In my mind it sounded: "I f-cking don't care, even if I got lynched town shall win". That's an attitude I follow as town many times.
Okay, 134 is indeed WTF, you know I'm checking his ISO now.
371 – As far as I remember, I already had a dislike on Zakk too at that time.
382 – He answered my question quickly.

I know there might be other players I could find just as many reasons for townreading them, but I also know that the more pages I need to catch up the more things I miss. And at least I

did

find something. Get it?

As for Seth: not only the fact that he's not scumhunting.

At this point Copper is moving back to my town list and here's the reason, why. He's one of the players who's relatively a "hot topic" – yet he's one of those who engaged me right after I started producing real content. According to my experience scums tend to avoid opening "new interaction fronts" if there's already some pressure on them.

[Aneninen]

On an unrelated note, I was concerned with the way ETL and Titus fell into an easy early alliance. Good to see that breaking up.

What if they are both town, wouldn't that be bad?

If

.
I too found that post from Persivul disturbing.
But...

No. You don't need a buddy to scum hunt. You can vote the same as another player while still being cautious of them.

That's okay for now. Recently I learnt a lot about town-Persivul and this matches the mindset I know.

Only scum would do this. This is so fake and lazy.

Your vote is just as lazy.

You're shutting up because you want some other player not to copy you? What are you, FOUR?
This looks like an excuse to lurk tbh

Whut?
Calling Titus a lurker?

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

I am just going to be on the biggest of TBG Copper and Shotty. I like all three wagons. Normally that doesn't happen.

I dislike this a lot. Reads as Scum who wants to avoid spearheading one particular lynch to me. The townie version of this post is like "I'll support XXX, YYY, and ZZZ wagons. I think YYY wagon is the best right now though".

Are you hoping that a Titus-wagon will suddenly gain momentum?

I think she was showing a bit of anxiety at whatever he was saying because she may feel it links back to her and she sees him heading for a lynch. If they don't have daytalk, she can't coach him in the PT, she has to find a way to make him shut up in-game. She's not conspicuously "sticking her neck out" to save him, but based on her voting patterns thus far and her arguments against those voting for him, it definitely leads me to think she wants to prevent his lynch.

Also... Titus tends to protect her buddies as long as she can without giving herself away, not bus them. I've seen it time and time again, it's an innate urge for her, as much as she tries to subvert it, I still see glimpses of it, especially early in the game when no one is particularly looking.

IF there's no DayTalk.

Mod

, is there DayTalk for scum team(s)?

[Aneninen]

Anen, you sound like you want to scum read drmy but are hesitant to do so. Can you elaborate on your drmy read?

In a nutshell: the scummiest points are his 185 (those guesses made very little sense

and

he assumed a third party) and the way he misrepresented ETL (that happened many times). I'm hesitant because I saw his scumgame not so long ago and it was entirely different; he was much more "cautious" and produced much less content.

I could've just said nothing and been able to jump on them if I wanted to. I did want to potentially vote either of them down the line. I thought it read like SvS. I still think it reads like SvS. No shit I'm going to want to vote people I think could be Scum.

I've lost the thread. What felt like Scum-vs-Scum?

Cy is scum for the same reasons Copper is. Only Cy's trajectory is worse.

Has Cy had a trajectory at all?
I think again that you're wrong about Copper. What do you think of my reasoning posted at the end of my 566?

TheBrawl, 532. Let's say, that's a readlist which may be genuine. But there are things I don't get.
Are you townreading Titus because of her interactions with Shotty and Ircher?
Is Copper a townread of yours?
Also, something different. What do you think of that quickwagon happened on CyTheFlyGuy?

Its.
Fucking.
Null.

...

All it tells me, is that the people on his wagon, are a bunch of lazy motherfuckers, or scum, or both.

I wouldn't call Cy null, but that wagon was indeed scummy. But I don't think more than two scums jumped on it. Most likely, only one.

Soooooo tomorrow I will have better connection to the internet. I see that I am causing contoversy MUHAHAHAHA. Like I'm town. I do think Icher is scum and I had nothing to say to add to the conversation. I do agree that the wagon for me is kinda a cop out. Not really because it's me but because you're going for the lazy people and not the people who really are scum like.

Who's scum then?

So, I know that I haven't had much of a presence, but did we not see seth literally claim mafia goon?

I don't think he claimed, but I do think the whole post was Information instead of Analysis.
I'm glad this topic's back. Everyone seem to forget about Seth!

@Seth
I see, no I meant that as mafia you would be happy to see

my flip

so it would be doubly funny if town bought your argument that copper should be lynched for being an arrogant prick, cause you get one up over me

and

over town.

This said your statement still doesn't make sense because you can't be an SK and a mafia goon at the same time.

?

fuckin A man... i just read Seth's ISO and it just sounds like newbiespeak but it really also sounds like newbiescumslippingspeak too.

all of you are scum i swear to god

Or he's indeed scum.

Shotty seems very town to me, like his posts are completely unfiltered. Especially in RVS he seemed genuine.

269 mostly.

Killthestory is such scum, holy shit. I actually thought about this and I want to vote him over copper. Copper is still scum but some of his posts make me slightly uneasy.

I still disagree with these. What does a genuine RVS look like?
Lowell's is null.
As for Killthestory's 96/98 I don't think it's a tell. Either trolling or he indeed forgot to check his PM (or to read it thoroughly. Oh, how many times has this happened to me...)

[Aneninen]

Also, I doubt scum-Ircher would go on with those hard-to read ISOs after the general dislike he got from almost everyone because of them.

What do you all think of this?

[Aneninen]

Good.

As for Shotty, I can see your point. I can add this to the "scum-Shotty was different" doubt of mine.
As for Lowell, we need more content. Where's MagmaOfIllusion anyway?
As for KillTheStory, do you still think he's the scummiest?

Expedience looks town. He's examining things, able to change his reads whenever something new shows up and I can see a town mindset behind it.


Expedience looks town.

[Aneninen]

What Seth said he meant is that lynching himself if he is goon or SK would be against his alignment (there is no direct mention of what he thinks of me), check for yourselves if that leap makes sense given the prior conversation, it does not to me.

He brought up the SK topic in the first place plus that post sounded as if he knew more about the Setup as we do. His latests weren't better either.

I am behind this as well, and finally caught up. Ircher doesn't read right to me but Egg is overly agreeable. That is usually a nice tell to being scum.

Is that all you can say?

Scum do not have mechanical day talk. That's as much as I'll say on that.

Aha!
Then I need to reconsider what ESL was saying.
Although, as I said, I don't think scum-Ircher would go on with those ISO-s.

[Aneninen]

Soon.
Again, so little time and so many pages...

[Aneninen]

Scum do not have mechanical day talk

BAM.
Titus is scum. With Ircher.
*dance*

I dont get that conclusion.

I don't get what you don't get. That read had existed from ETL ages before.

Dislike, dislike, dislike. Because in thread coaching would require there to be no Daytalk. Yet there is no way to determine whether scum have daytalk of not at this stage. I direct everyone to the wiki for Normal Standards …

Mafia may have daytalk without an Encryptor as long as it is announced in the game's rules beforehand.

Yes, yes, that works so in theory. But I'm quite sure I've been in games with DayTalk without any announcement.
What's more concerning is ETL assumed no DayTalk but she could have asked about it in the thread.

I don’t like this because ETL is experienced enough to easily be able to look this up without prompting. Yet he / she (yeah, no gender indication in profile … so not going to assume) is happy to just assume away. Inside info leaking out subconsciously perhaps?

Erm... you seem to know a lot about ETL. Yet you had no information that ETL's a woman.

Killthestory (no change on him)

Explain this read in detail.

I already posted about it long ago. However, having taken a quick look on the thread before catching up shows more posts from him. I'll post my current read as I've caught up with the game.

The initial stats discussion between Ircher and Shotty. It felt like artificial, forced conflict rather than genuine. Their interactions still feel off to me.

Re-checked it. I remember being concerned about that and calling it "noise". Being further from those pages in time it feels more like a thing which can happen on early pages in any game.

Not particularly, no. I scumread him but he's not in my top 3, as you can see in the reads list I posted. Additionally, a lot of my read on him is relative to Ircher/Shotty. Scumflips from either of them would make me more sure on Titus, and less if they're Town. I'd rather see them die first - they're scummy on their own and help me read Titus.

I know it's sheer intuition but this sounded scummy. I often post that reasoning as scum so that I could be open for more wagons to compromize on later.

Also, I doubt scum-Ircher would go on with those hard-to read ISOs after the general dislike he got from almost everyone because of them.
What do you all think of this?

I disagree. I think if he had stopped after we said it wasn't going to give him townpoints, it would have been a clear indication he was only doing it for townpoints.

Ghhhhhhhhhhh.
Had he stopped, he'd be scumread by you. He didn't do so, and he's... scumread by you. Regardless Of Card.

I assumed no daytalk because Titus' posts to Ircher looked like in-game coaching.

Eiao?
Shouldn't that logic have happened in the other way around?

Who else did you meta research?

Have you ever done this as Town before?

the first 4 alphabetically. I usually copy the list into excel and type notes but I get bored quickly. and yes I have done it before, when I don't have anything else to do and I'm excited about playing another game.

The first 4? Then I must be amongst the meta-ed. And you doesn't seem to engage me at all. Why?

This is just so damn overwhelming and something I need to get used to xD.

What do you need to get used to? Large games?

egg is also scum. his ISO does NOT look like town, whoever asked me that. it looks like scum trying to appease people and avoid rocking the boat.

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

Lynch me if you want. I can be more use later. Right now I'll just be a potato and see how the votes go

This is so scummy

Having checked your ISO I could see how few players you were actually trying to read.

the cy wagon has gotten stale of late, it's a bunch of me-toos, and a cy flip will tell us too little
the ircher wagon is the definition of a lazy wagon on probtown, buuuut it will tell us a lot based on flip, so i will abide it, HOWEVER

But you were on the Cy-wagon too!

heur only has 4 more posts than cy. If you don't like the cy wagon because the flip wouldn't tell us much, why do you want a heur wagon?

Parrotting this.

heur only has 4 more posts than cy. If you don't like the cy wagon because the flip wouldn't tell us much, why do you want a heur wagon?

i'm guessing this is rhetorical

Didn't like this answer.
Also, I'm a clever

parrot

pigeon. I don't repeat rhetorical questions.

see who jumps on, see how cy acts, see how much steam it gets, see what happens

Okay, that makes sense. And I guess you got no answers.

it's very clearly explained why i was voting cytheflyguy
it's very clearly explained why i am voting heur

Do you have a readlist?

I'm also still not a fan of the Ircher wagon. I mean, yes, the strange numbered system he has is pretty weak, but I'm pretty positive that most scum would not be so bold as to consistently post a bunch of "scored" reads that only he can understand, and insist that it's very important.

Finally, someone!
The scummiest thing I guess was the post linked right above from him. But I can see nothing scummy in those ISO-stats.

I'm becoming more sure that Zakk is town with practically almost every post.

But why?

Same with EspeciallyTheLies. That said though, I think EspeciallyTheLie's accusation of Titus teaming Ircher is kind of weak.

That's not the only thing why doubts crept in.

checking to see if I'm townread yet

nope meaning you get no content yet

Fzzzzzzzzzzzzt.
I really don't like these posts (and I could have linked anything nearby). Aronis did the same as scum with me in Netherspite's. Although he was faking a Jester. Muffinman looked similar on Day1 in a game took place ages ago. He was Mason with me.

I like how the ppl are still on my old posts, my first posts are roleplay, afterwards I made a post that is fucked up by my phone's autocorrect

Having checked your ISO I saw nothing about that autocorrect.
You seem to have been away and have hoped we'd leave your wagon. A pity it hasn't happened.

I said lynching sk as a mafia goon, not me lynching sk as a mafia goon, I did not mention who is the mafia goon, therefore it couldn't be anyone in this game.

You talked about an SK and mentioned mafia

goon

. Information instead of analysis.

At players who thought I am an sk and said the town could use me as a vig, that gave me an idea of a role that functions like an sk, but can win with any faction as long as it survives.

Whut?

This game has 21 players and thus it's completely possible that there is a second mafia or an sk in the game. Otherwise the game would be excruciatingly slow and would last two years. If the latter happens then the mod is either a nasty bastard or he completely sucks at creating a setup.

Possible =/= sure.
There are large games with one single scum faction. Firstly, Vigs can speed the things up. Secondly, if the town's playing terribly, LyLo can come much earlier.

Going on soon.
And there will be shorter catch-up posts.
I have not enough time for producing these walls. And most of you're going to be unwilling to read them.

[Aneninen]

Ircher/Shotty don't fit the description of two scum who decided on a hard distance gambit

I think I said something similar.

roleplaying in early D1

What roleplaying?

All that analysis, then quickly slaps a random vote on me without an explaination. Elaborate please.

What was not an unexplained vote.

Expedience's 658 is something we should remember later, when there are a couple of flips!

You can easily single out newbies from an experienced and everyone can do it.
An experienced knows the concequences of posting in the same way as cytheflyguy, cy posted like that because he doesn't.

And. That. Is. Not. An. Alignment. Tell.

If you want to parrot, Egg and EspeciallyTheLies are the best ones.

Why need anyone parrot Egg and ETL? Oh wait, I have an idea. Maybe because they aren't scumreading your buddies?

A newbtown's first posts almost always attract suspicion, a newbscum on the other hand, either tries to act like town as much as possible but fails to do so or he is inactive.

Pigeon poop.

I just pick a tone to play the game regardless of role and for better or worse stick with it

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...
Another intuitive thought, but this feels town. I'm doing the same as town many times, whereas as scum I'm much more "adaptive".

lost in the damn woods

LMFAO!

Shotty is VI town. Too aggressive compared to his scumgame, actually attempting to scumhunt

Could see Copper as scum, tries not to combat anyone, instead chooses to want to gain their support and is running for towncred really hard. Buddies up a lot with TBG a lot too

Brawl defends Copper as well, very notable, pushes BOTH Ircher and Shotty when their whole argument thing read like TvT, not SvS. Reads Titus as scum, wrong, reads Cy as scum, got newbtown vibes from them, otherwise reads are pretty ass. Could see as scum, too

Makes sense after all.

who's scum for you, haven't been reading since I don't care

Why the fuck did you join the game then, you fucking twat waffle?

that's a new one. If you keep harassing me I'll report you to the mod then ; )
I joined cuz SirCakez is mah boy but you got all these stupid ass reasons for scumreading me so I stopped caring.

Need you two do so?
On the other hand, I seriously disliked this for something else.
KillTheStory was willing to answer Titus, BUT refusing to produce GAME-content to ETL. Why the difference?
I don't remember whether ETL was posting similar things in other games before, but I do know KillTheStory's answer was weird. I mean, refusing to produce content (but still doing so by engaging Titus)

plus

talking about reporting? That doesn't add up.
Can anyone follow me?

id respond but I'm not a townread and I don't care about your opinion

Once again, you ignorant child, I haven't once said you were scum.

Adding this to the thing above.

Anyway, this isn't a teamgame. If it was a teamgame then one person wouldn't be able to hardcarry a game.

Listen, and don't take it as an offence.
Mafia IS a team game.
Your goal is to help your FACTION win, whatever it costs.

This whole story, which actually went on for a long time, looks very weird.
Why did KillTheStory get so annoyed?
Why ETL went on?
And why did Titus get involved in the story at all?
Something, I daresay, was not right there, AND I'm not talking about the contentless argument.
Yet again, can anyone follow me?

[Aneninen]

Right now, Titus is attempting to move focus onto me and deliberately mislead others who might be too lazy to actually look for themselves.

Where did that happen?
Why do you think it would work?

titus is the only one announcing me as a townread so i have to blindly follow her to victory unless someone else townreads me

Eeeeeeeew!
FYI, had you read the thread you'd know you used to be a townread of mine for a long time.

Right now, Titus is attempting to move focus onto me and deliberately mislead others who might be too lazy to actually look for themselves.

You could actually show where you scumread Ircher by himself if you think my analysis is wrong.

Your view on Ircher makesno sense.

Ircher is a noob and I cannot read them well.
Ircher is newbtown as fuck.
Titus defended Ircher so they are scumbuddies.
Vote on Ircher after Egg and I highlight that there's a wagon on Ircher and your case required Ircher scum.

Then when you are pissed of at KTS, your response is to get on the wagon we are both on?

Just wtf...

I can agree with this.
And I guess I'll be another scumread of ETL. With Titus, of course. Everyone's scum with Titus.

I like to do jokes in my comments a lot. I do it equally as any alignment. I thought I had remembered voting cy but when I rechecked my posts I couldn't find my vote, which is why I voted. Apparently I had voted and just missed it.

Is that all you can say?

VOTE: titus
i really don't like the way you say ircher is obv town. He is far from it, but you seem to know something I don't.

Pigeon poop.
There have been plenty of players hard-townreading others. Why is Titus's townread on Ircher worse?

Sorry you feel that way. I have a question for you: what do you make of KilltheStory's interaction with EspeciallytheLies in the last few pages? I'm actually reading his justification for why he plays the way he does/general tone as a towntell. Why is he scum to you?

That may or may not have been a towntell.
I've already expressed my opinion about those pages. What do you think of it?

TBG's last post was 616. You were still pushing him in 684 and 687. Yet, you say the scum read on him is stale because he began giving reasons long ago. That just doesn't add up.
VOTE: Titus

Hole found.
What a pity.
I started to move Titus to the prob-town block.

And I'm gathering that

trajectory

is the buzz word of the game...

Buzzword is a buzzword too.

Her reason for scumreading TBG no longer was valid. She was voting Ircher without a scumread on him. She accused me of being scum, with her townread, solely bc I defended him. You also highlighted inconsistencies with her votes. They make zero sense throughout the game.

Are you saying ETL's only reason for scumreading Ircher was scumreading you?

But again Titus, you and ETL were buddies at first. There are plenty of people for scum!ETL to mislynch. So, why does she turn on you? What's her motivation? Don't scum want allies?

How do you know ETL'd be a misslynch?
And I don't think every scum is to get allies.

whoops bbcode
VOTE: huer

Oh, another lazy vote. (And I saw the post above too.)

TBH tries to misdirect and change the wagon to heuristically_alone just right after Titus said we should gang him up.
Say no more Titus, VOTE: TehBrawlGuy.

Or you just jumped on your counter.
Why did you mention Titus?

Ircher, what are your thoughts on his 811?

Wording is pretty weird again. I'd say Seth isn't intentionally misrepping you by stating you are misdirecting, but

it does sound like Seth knows more than us.

See?

See?

SEE?

[Aneninen]

Meanwhile, stealing the pagetop with a contentless post.

[Aneninen]

I actually wanted to post a readlist too, but when I was working on it I realized that at least half of the players would be in the "conflicted" cathegory. So, if anyone's interested in my read on a certain player, ask!

I've also noticed a couple of things.

Players seem to be getting arranged into two "groups". One with Titus in the centre of it and another one, harder to define, but maybe around ETL? This gives me the feeling there may be two group factions. I mean, there's a scum in both "groups" (maybe more?), someone with relatively high content and with genius scumreads (because of hunting for the other faction). Infiltrating a towblock if one gets formed.

There are players who're interacting with very few others. There are players who are engaging everyone they can. (Some of these are hardly "engaged back".) If all the scums are not totally inexperienced players, I suppose some of them are in the first group (minimal interactions), but definitely not all. (If there are multiple scum factions, at least 1–1 scums are among those minimally-interactive players.) And of course, there are a couple of players with little-to-no content we know nothing about yet.

Maybe these things are behind those "conflicted" reads.

[Aneninen]

Some fluffy fan-art. Don't get offended.

Readlist in Malkavian Style.

Heuristic Alone

– Were he alone, this'd be the game with the least pages ever.

Illusion Magnet

– Why don't you answer my questions? Why don't you answer my questions? Why don't you, oh, bother.

Persivul

– Either he's looking for the Holy Grail or he wants to wash the dishes. We should keep him and at the end of the party I might help. Washing the dishes is fun.

Nosferatu

– Nomen est omen, I know he's here in the shadows somewhere. I wonder what will happen if he jumps in front. If. A short word with a long meaning.

Experi-dance

– His moves tell us everything. We can believe him and hope that the hand behind his body is only the part of the coreography and it doesn't hold, let's say, a gun.

Shotty

– He's waiting at the bus stop for the vehicle that never comes. How sad.

Projector Stalemate

– Oh, those good old machines from my childhood. We used to watch those slideshow fairy-tales, you know, but every now and then we needed to stop to wait until the projector gets cooled down. Do you know what does that mean?

Zakk McCracken

– The master chef of the party! A pity that he's so lazy that he wants to make scrambled eggs in the microwave. Isn't it- BAAAAAAAOM! Oh damn.

I Am Innocent

– Most Jarre songs have more texts than he does. Need I say more?

Ircher

– He's walking on his own way no matter what happens. He doesn't seem to be worried about the penguins getting thrown at him.

Dale Cooper 223

– He has a little clockwork turtle in his suitcase. Sometimes he puts it on the table and we get happy.

Egg

– He knows how dangerous sitting on the fence for an egg could be. That'swhy he's useful. And I'm not hungry anyway.

Seth Yakuza

– Stupid autocorrect! He wanted to say "plant some tress" instead of "bomb the city". We're so insensitive.

KillTheLorry

– I'm not telling anything until you start townreading me.

Cy, The Sly Try

– He's definitely at the wrong place and wrong time. Either now or when he got his Role PM.

Ain'tneninen

– He's moving his ass so fast that he'll be able to solve the game. Two days after it has ended.

Desmond and Mollie

– He may have a barrow in the marketplace, but he doesn't have a day-off. That'swhy he's never here.

Lowell

– Bring some mushrooms from that forest, will you? Thanks!

Titus

– A lovely slot-machine. You insert the dime and get three lemons back.

TheGrowlGuy

– He's just as picky as for a possible lynch as a crow on the field full of crops and worms.

EspeciallyTheHairdesign

– I know, Titus is scum with everyone! And now, give me a leek to spin, thank you and welcome!

[Aneninen]

Is this just IIoA from you?

Whut?
Knowing ETL's gender is an IIOA?

Just some song and dance about “being conflicted”.

I know "being conflicted" is not a useful thing.
That'swhy I posted this too:

So, if anyone's interested in my read on a certain player, ask!

In other words, I don't think it would be useful to post about 7–8 reads like "He/She's scummy, because of [things] BUT [other things] make me think he/she's not scum".
Also, I posted some possible reasons for the many "being conflicted".

Folllowed by a stupid HAHA post. Which I find interesting given questioned Seth about roleplaying when you went out of your way to do that as well instead of actually advancing the game.

Where did Seth roleplay?
Yeah, stupid post from me. As if it had never happened in any game before. As if I hadn't posted a lot of other things too.

You should totally vote TBG then. Let's give scum a shit sand which.

When you posted this, did you think you had presented sufficient evidence for people to vote TBG, or were you just hoping for blind followers?

There's your context. I do believe enough has been presented. KTS and I shared a scumread, so we voted together.

Okay-looking answer.

[Aneninen]

The new posts have been noted.
But I need to go now and I'll be unable to post detailed things from mobile.
Later, okay?

[Aneninen]

Still mobile. But I'm waiting at work for a short while.
So.
You know, for me fluffing is fast and nobrainer but posting reasons, quotes etc. Requires more time and effort.

Here is the quicklist.

Town. Persivul, Expedience, Ircher, Copper, Egg, ?Cy

Conflicted. Magma, Shotty, Matt, Killthestory, Titus, Brawl, ?ETL

Scum. Seth, Zakk, Heuristic

And there are nullcontents.

Ask and I'll answer as I have time later. Havent read Lowell's yet.

[Aneninen]

Is it?

On Day1, that was an okay answer. Not a super-town, not something that would be okay on eg. Day3, though.

this is the second instance today of Titus looking for a buddy.

As for this... I saw something. And I wonder whether it will be significant.

And you don’t draw any actual conclusion … you just leave it hanging there. Which is IIoA to a tee – lots of words that sum up to not a bit of game-releveant content.

I'll answer this later. Because of reasons.

Anen, can you explain your TBG read? I know you did awall but I am not following it with all the funy names and awkward speech.

His eintritt in 102 was both lazy and terrible. His laters are a bit better, but eg. 520 is again a lazy-push. His readlist 532 may or may not be genuine. Having checked it again, however, all the scumreads are "safe". (I mean, as far as I can remember, at that time any of those reads would have gained support from others.) He performed a Regardless of Card on Ircher in 603. Another lazy vote in 804. Actually, re-ISO-ing him again I've seen worse content than I remembered.
The conflict is that he looks like an easy wagon and people who don't really agree each other jumped on it. He looks like a "safe compromize".

I liked Lowell's 842. He may be town. I disagree with some of his reads, eg. Seth, Killthestory.

@Anen, Please be on later. Your conclusions feel wrong (not scummy). I would like to get on the same page.

What conclusions are wrong?

tfw here but nothing to say

That reminds me of lazy-town-Aneninen...

I'm working on sorting Titus and ETL, which is likely much more important for the game than pushing some of the other people being pushed. For instance, I've had a scum read on Seth for some time, but that's something that can be pushed anytime.

It's clear that Titus and ETL look like the "starts of the play" now. But I wouldn't stop pushing Seth.

[Aneninen]

I meant eg. you and ETL.

In fact,

TehBrawlGuy (4) - Killthestory, Titus, EspeciallyTheLies, MagnaOfIllusion

I don't get why these players are agreeing being on this wagon right now.

As for your reads.
Why is Magna and KTS town? Who the dancing little nymph is Fedora Chick? Why is Zakk and Heuristic lean town? Why is Copper still scummy? Aaaaand why is Persivul scum?

[Aneninen]

Soon.

[Aneninen]

@copper, he strikes me as newbtown. I think the SK "claim" was probably just a language flub, and if it wasn't, I doubt as scum he'd keep intentionally digging the hole deeper by bringing it up over and over again. It's all WIFOM, basically, but I'm good with it.

I think he's simply scum-flailing.
I didn't start scumreading him because of any claims from him; I still think his post was Infromation instead of Analysis.

Magna KTS and I each separately scumread TPG.
Cy wagon dies.
Magna wants KTS or TPG to flip.
Kill wants to work with townreads. I tell him I townread him, but he needs to vote scum. I give my reads.
He states a scumread on TBG.
We move.
ETL votes it.
I have a wtf moment and try to get a reason. ETL refuses to provide one. (The only one in her ISO is stale).
Magna joins.
Pers hard defends ETL, saying she could have been following me, despite both of us knowing that is likely bullshit.

This is indeed an interpretation of the events. And it may or may not have come from town. I mean, it is possible that those players ended up voted for TheBrawl as a logical consequence.
My problem is those pages with KillTheStory, ETL and you. Something was very "off" with the whole argument and I still don't know what.
It's strange that KillTheStory engaged you instantly as you'd expressed your townread on him. At that time I'd had a townread on him too, but he hadn't talked to me.

Persivul is scum for repeatedly taking things out of context and straining to firm arguments. He's white knighting/hard defending ETL at the moment which is awkward as crap. For instance, he's been focused on having it be ok for ETL to jump on my wagon with no reason that fits the current game state. Just reread the last few pages and you'll get the idea.

This is bad. I don't think Persivul's taking things out of context. He simply interprets things in a way you don't like.
I don't understand why his townread on ETL bothers you that much. (Even if my early townread on her was gone long ago.) ETL is a "special cathegory of frustration" for you, not a scumread. Also, there are others hard-townreading certain players. Why is Persivul's one worse?

titus is just appearing everywhere now isn't she
that's probably a towntell.

And I've been trying to decide whether it's a towntell (towns tend to engage everyone they can more often than scums) – or a scumtell (and Persivul's right and Titus is trying to get "allies" all the time)

i don't think he's scummy though, i agree with much of what he says, even whta's not about me. very much of it, actually.

Show me the points you agree with TheBrawl in.

Zakk, what specifically do you agree with TBG on? Your last posts don't seem to indicate agreement with him, so I am confused.

i find myself nodding at all of his posts, so that means i agree with him

Than stop listening Metallica while you're reading his posts.
Show me the points you agree with TheBrawl in.

ETL is town. You want to wagon ETL.
Ircher is scum. You don't like that wagon.
He said his thought processes match yours in this post, but that clearly isn't true now.
He has a scumread on me. You're hard townreading me.

I don't think Zakk's townread on you was that hard, but yes, that'swhy I asked that question above.

As for reads, I liked the motivation for your vote on me. I am now leaning more town on TBG. This doesn't feel completely like a scum trying to find another wagon to start, but rather a town that noticed some odd activity (and lack of total activity) from one player and wants to call it out to the town.

FZZZZZZZZZZZZZT.
I used the same reasoning for townreading someone after they started scumreading me ...in my first scum game.

I've noticed that town are more likely to point out things that are not really alignment tells. Scum would want other player coming up with tells and voting others.

Town points for Aneninen

Same as above.

Heuristic Alone – Were he alone, this'd be the game with the least pages ever.

Haha, then maybe I'd finally win a game

Trying to appease players cheekily?

Dont be fooled by content. Anen really knows how to fluff like in Newbie 1682.
Anen can also let Anen get super lost like in Micro 600: Mechanics Upick

In both games we met before I was scum. (And I wasn't playing geniusly in either of those.) But you have no town meta on me.

Conclusion: Pers, Copper, TBG, Zakk as scum.

Can't, can't, may, must be. In that order.

As for Heuristic, what do you think of my thoughts right above in this post?
Why is Magna obv-town?
Also, show me Seth's scumhunting efforts.

Going on soon.

[Aneninen]

Page 24:
Anen, I'm having trouble figuring out what your actual stance on Cy is. You called the wagon scummy, but said you didn't think it contained multiple scum. So ifit was mostly a town wagon, is your Cy read affected by the wagon at all? I'd assume no, but you seem to feel like it's more telling than anything Cy actually said. Also, to your question in 577 about whether Ircher would continue ISOs after dislike for them was expressed, remember Wake as scum in that large normal where I was SK? He avoided content to do his "focus reads" and kept right on going. I know Ircher isn't Wake, but I don't really know Ircher and at the very least it shows that it's happened before so it's probably not much of a town tell.

Right now I don't think he's scum. His 665. I'm doing the same as town many times. If he's town, there must have been at least one scum among those quick-votes. Zakk, Titus, Matt. Zakk is the most likely, but I wouldn't rule out the other names too. (If it's a Multiball – see one of my older posts –, there could have been two scums from different factions.)

As for Ircher. That game with you as an SK in. I was misreading Wake all the time. But Ircher's not Wake. So far I've met him twice and there were quite a lot of players scumreading him, although he was town both times. Even if I was scum in both games (and I may be biased because of this), I think this is a big difference between Ircher and Wake.

You posted that you didn't care about this game. I, rightly, gave you shit for it.

^ This

It means that the anger is faked in an attempt to look town.

Whose anger? Kill's?
What do you think of that argument?

TBG is trying to look for scum bussing each other for some weird yet town reason.

?

Copper is Leaning Scum. Very much dislike his more or less sole focus on low hanging fruit.

Why? That description, I think, fits more players.

Either scum is on your wagon or you are scum. I know I'm town, and I have a scum read on you, so I think the more likely outcome is that you are scum.

Huh?

Scum team: Titus, Ircher, Copper
3rd party: Zakk

I still think this holds true, and it fits the was Zakk is playing.

Not again.

33 pages and I didn't make an impression...

who are you again?

ok i glanced over ur ISO u can be town

This was especially weird considering the fact that Nahdia's readlist contained players with much less content than Persivul had.
Also, I don't think I can agree with most of your reads, Nahdia.

it's more of a good early feeling i got from him, and

i felt really iffy at everyone who jumped on his wagon.

Okay, let's say I'm buying that highlighted part.
What do you think of the Cy-wagon then, which you were actually on?

Massive post coming tomorrow. I promise!

if this hasn't happened already: please don't.

Whut?

cytheflyguy (6) - zakk, Titus, projectmatt, SethYazura, heuristically_alone, Ircher
Ircher (5) - TehBrawlGuy, Egg, cytheflyguy, Persivul, drmyshottyiszik

Ircher (6) - TehBrawlGuy, Egg, cytheflyguy, Persivul, drmyshottyiszik, EspeciallyTheLies
cytheflyguy (5) - zakk, Titus, SethYazura, heuristically_alone, Ircher

For at least some period of the day both wagons got to more or less halfway home. Don’t you think if Ircher is scum as you think (which I disagree with) that a push would likely take place there?

Did you mean this: If Ircher were scum the Cy-wagon would have been pushed harder. – ?
By the way, these VCs will be very informative after a couple of flips.

@Nahdia
What has Seth done between page 20 and page 33 to go from IDK LOL to top townread?

there is no "top". within a category there is no particular order.

his defense of cytheflyguy is what gave him townpoints tho.

Whiteknighting. Have you ever heard of it?

makes me feel like possible titus/ETL scum, and kts just a VI

Both? And is their whole interaction fake?

Never did I tell you that it's pointless to scumhunt d1, if you can make a read list, you should be able to say why, otherwise players will eventually prompt you to explain your reads which is what I just did.

As if Nahdia had been the only one posting reads with no explanations.

Expedience's response is underrated, I didn't see a slight reaction to it and thus I didn't notice until Zakk quoted that, gave me quite a good laugh.

You know that your last few posts sound like scum struggling to participate, right?

You know that you don't have a sense of humor right?

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

So basically, you are now claiming you want an ETL wagon, but she's hard to lynch so you'd rather vote elsewhere? So you're shopping an ETL wagon?

YES! this is exactly it. are you down?

It took pages of conversation for you just to say this? You could have made it easier by a ton.

Seth, there's a reason

why

it took him pages. I forced him to go there by highlighting his inconsistencies. The only option for the vacillation that makes any sense is that he was shopping the wagon.
Now, the question is

why

he was shopping the wagon and keeping his vote parked on someone else.

Titus: I can see another reason for that attitude.
Seth: Are you just looking for a viable counterwagon?

also, we should lynch me today so i dont have play with these players. Expedience I think is scum because of the way he's approaching what im saying kek.

How exactly does these make sense?

lamers and tryhards
VOTE: copper####
go go power rangers
hi manga how r u man titus is trying to set us up i think

Why the vote change?
Also that last line gave me some bad feeling. It felt as if her Magna-read were simply fake.

i think we should have an Ice Cream "im sorry for Space Dandy" Social because everyone on that player list including myself has something to be sorry for tbh.

except SugarJan.

Nahdia, your give no real explanations for your reads YET you join fluffing eagerly and fast.

[Aneninen]

My question to you is – why out of your stated scum-reads did you vote Copper who has by my last recollection exactly zero wagon? Is it you are most passionate about him as scum? Being pragmatic Ircher would be the obvious choice if you want your vote to be more impactful at this point even if I think you are wrong about him.

^^
Parrotting that.

ok i made it to page 33 and now im lazy

VOTE: Ircher

At least give an explanation why you voted Ircher.
Elaborate on your read list, you just categorized players into alignments without an actual analysis, even one-liners are enough.

because he's scummy.
the first 10 pages basically just screamed to me "scum that's really frustrated because they feel they're getting caught for the wrong reasons"
then he kinda chilled and i was OK with him
then he started doing this ridiculous "points" system thing with ISOs and they're about as real as a 3 dollar bill.

And the pounts system has scum motivation because?
Sure, you could argue its an attempt to avoid analyzing, but does that really seem like the most plausible explanation?

Actually that "expanation" was both vague and stale.

yeh but im not getting lynched this game

And now you're pondering what PR you should fake-claim later, aren't you?

VOTE: ircher these last 4 pages were awful.

???!
And what do you think of Nahdia, If you call Ircher awfull what will you call her??!

Nahdia's first posts were really good, but the whole trying to be cute and lack of any explanation on the switch to copper has me confused - lean town

What was that good about Nahdia?

Isn't multiball inherently non-normal?

What was that?!
Plenty of people (including me) had been talking about this topic before and you hadn't reacted anything!!!
This looked like an attempt to fake a towntell.

oh yeah and I checked, multiball can be normal
that's an awful rule but there it is

And this confirmed my thoughts!

[Aneninen]

Ircher's readlist. 1065.
ETL, Zakk, Matt, TheBrawl, Heuristic, Nahdia, Lowell, Seth, Copper, Egg and Cy. I disagree with all of these. 11 players. I still don't think Ircher's scum but even if I get the reasoning behind in certain cases (ETL, Zakk, Copper, Cy) I think he missed a couple of facts.

Confirmed Town (From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
Ircher (100%) - Role PM (100%) - Role PM

Translation: I am making a readlist to show you how town I am.

That was just a typical Ircher-readlist. Null in itself.

All new players are a bad lynch because their play did not yet adjust to the meta, their playstyles are one of a kind and unorthodox and thus your reads on them are more likely to be wrong than reading an experienced player.

Or there's another explanation. Seth is scum and a newer player is his buddy.
Frankly, why is anyone townreading him?

Some updates.
Brawl is scummy because of that Multiball question.
Nahdia is scummy because she refused to give real explanations but she got involved in fluffing easily.
I don't know what to think of the whole Zakk–Titus interaction. But I hope there will be one because I'm waiting for "something" that may or may not happen later.
ETL's missing, which I don't really like.

[Aneninen]

And from now on I'm not posting such detailed catch-up walls. It's taken almost three hours and I doubt I'll have that much time in the near future because of IRL things. Sorry.

[Aneninen]

Policy Lynch By Day 2 : Aneninen

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!!!

I don't think I need quote anything from that part. But you know, you made me laugh.
For your information, you've just described what I'm doing in every single game. Regardless of alignment. I didn't get that title under my name for nothing. ^_^

I know it sounds paradox, but this was the first post which made me think that I might be wrong about Seth. Or at least, the rage looked genuine.

For the other parts of your post:

Brawl is scummy because of that Multiball question.

Don't pigeon shit upon small things and make them big problems for town, even if we are talking about Brawl who I want lynched this day.

No, that wasn't a small thing. We had been talking about a possible Multiball quite a lot before he asked that question. He could have asked about it at that time. He didn't do so. I strongly think he wanted to drop a fake-townslip.

Nahdia is scummy because she refused to give real explanations but she got involved in fluffing easily.

This words came out from a pidgeon who posted the childish "malkavian roleplay" fluffy post.

As if I hadn't posted zillions of other things. By the way, it's strange that you have problems with that Malkavian post NOW.

I don't know what to think of the whole Zakk–Titus interaction. But I hope there will be one because I'm waiting for "something" that may or may not happen later.

And now you're hiding things from us, 'something that may happen or not later" which is just another distraction for town, and what the fuck do you mean by hoping there will be one if there is already one? Another pidgeon shit you shat on this thread?
You die Day 2.

I have an idea which would help me sort someone out. But if I posted it

now

, that would affect the later posts of that player or players.
Get it?

Starting to think seth is a jester... Is that role greylist?

Jester is not normal.

Can someone explain why Brawl is scum? I'm not seeing it.

What do you think of his question about Multiball?

Right now, I want a scum lynch but I feel mostly only scum are posting.

ircher and shotty omgusing each other feels like a sideshow for me. I think its probably town v town. If one were scum, I think that player would be trying harder to get out of the 30 page flamewar that's making them both look bad. If both are scum, well, damn, well done on that commitment to bussing, but I just don't see it.

That could be right.

Who else to do think is going after low-hanging fruit exclusively?

Heuristic, Seth, Zakk, Brawl, Cy, Nahdia.
As far as I remember all of these have performed at least one lazy-vote on wagons with momentum. I'm not saying all of them are essentially scum because of this or all of the wagons have been bad, but the description fits them.

No. I asked Shotty that specifically for a reason. I wanted to see if he would look critically at it. His response at 1051 completely ignored the implications and went off on his current multiball theory instead.

Then I missed the context of the post. My bad.
What do you think of TheBrawl's Multiball question?

What read do you have on Heur, Nahdia, Lowell, and Copper then? I’d like to know how you disagree with him specifically on these players.

Scum, lean scum, town, town.
You may be lean town now. Or at least, I can see a town mindset behind your posts, your reads seem to be organic.

some people put themselves in readlists. it's dumb and silly but it's usually just related to the player, not their alignment. i've seen Ircher make that same style readslist as town.

Yet you voted for Ircher in your fist post!
How does that add up?!

Also,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TheBrawl

Reasons are in my recent posts.

[Aneninen]

Whut?

[Aneninen]

You saw Ircher posting the same style of readlist when he was town. Your first vote was on Ircher. How does that add up?

[Aneninen]

How about explaining your line of thinking then?

[Aneninen]

Yeah. Whatever.
But you still haven't explained your way of thinking, as for Ircher's readlist.

[Aneninen]

Yeah. Whatever.
But you still haven't explained your way of thinking, as for Ircher's readlist.

im not explaining this to u. maybe one of ur scummates in the scum PT can explain it.

Good.

Scum do not have mechanical day talk. That's as much as I'll say on that.

Thanks for telling us that scums have an Encryptor. Is it you?

[Aneninen]

Catching-up soon.

[Aneninen]

Vulgar insults like this (specifically the contents of the spoiler) are not acceptable.

Oh, cut it out, I was laughing hard when I had read it. I even told about it to others at my workplace (they know I'm playing Mafia), commenting: "lol, someone has just described what I do in every single game".

as scum when i think someone's an easy lynch i'll take it. sitting on a wagon is easy.
however when i'm town i get dissatisfied easy and jump around a lot.

obv take that with a grain of salt but there it is.

Uhhh. As for this, I remember townreading you in KillerInstinct and I named your partners correctly.
So, even if self-meta, this may be true. But I have salt in my kitchen and I'm willing to use it soon.

i'll discuss other potential lynches with u but this is my vote lol.

I can see two possible motivations behind your posts; one is prob-town, one is prob-scum.
Answer this:
Who

else

are you scumreading and

why

?

Jester is explicitly non-Normal and wil never be in a Normal game.

with this I'll hop on the seth wagon. These last few posts, and a few before that I glazed over and probably should have looked closer at but was too busy tunneling ircher and confbiasing myself, have been either scum or at the very least bad enough to warrant a pl.
VOTE: seth

It gave me the opposite vibes.

I'll have my computer back this weekend so I should be able to get a better grasp here and do a re read without focusing only on the 3 people I have tunneled thus far.

That would be great.

I'm all-in on team nahdia.
VOTE: anen
I think he's crumbling.

TL;DR! ^_^

He's not. I took advantage of him for this personality before as scum. If it's a personality based argument, I'm not voting Anen.

I'm wondering whether your townread is real or you're just whiteknighting me.

So your pool of players you accuse of going after low-hanging fruit is Heur, Seth and Cy (who are low hanging fruit themselves so that accusation really doesn’t apply since it only is useful in reading well seasoned players).
Hell looking at Nahdia’s join date I’d likely throw her in that pool as well.

I don't care a lot about joining dates.
Players may have RL experience, off-site experience, may be alts, but most importantly: relatively new players are wild-cards. And they should never be under-estimated or called bad. I learnt it in the hard way.

So that leaves Zakk. His join date makes it a valid tell to use on him. Do you scum read Zakk for it then?

See above!

Anen breaking down under my scum pressure as town. I was Burning Crystal.

I know I'm speaking against myself but that's hardly a tell.
Sometimes I break down or start raging regardless of alignment, sometimes not.
My posting style tells much more about my RL. And in these days I haven't been caring that much about Mafia as I could (should?) have.

I moved to HA with the pressure because there was a good case on him posted, which prompted me to ISO him and see that his ISO was shit. I don't go around randomly ISOing low-content players usually. Voting someone because a case was posted on them is pretty standard.

Or pretty lazy.

Why the hell would I comment on my own wagon? FMPoV, it's a wagon on town. I'd rather discuss wagons on potential Scum. If I get you off of me, but you just ML someone else, I don't gain anything.

Wait-oh.
What if you started scumhunting instead?
At least you could have told us who you thought was scum on your wagon.

Between Magna and you, and my V/LA, I guess I could compromise there.
VOTE: Brawl

Erm... why were you so willing to compromise on someone who you weren't scumreading?

Between Magna and you, and my V/LA, I guess I could compromise there.

VOTE: Brawl

Seriously as soon as I unvote you, you unvote me are you kidding me!
VOTE: ircher
I can't believe I almost let people talk me off this. Ircher needs to die. I can't think straight until then. If he isn't scum then I will never play with him again.

Weren't you telling us that you would start focusing on other players too?

[Aneninen]

Aneninen, did you read my points against Ircher?

554? Or was there something newer?
As for Ircher, what do you think of his jump on TheBrawl?

Heuristic's 1210. All those reads (apart from the Copper-read) were empty and fence-sitty. Titus is lean-town, but hard to read as scum. You don't like Shotty's posts, wouldn't be surprised if he flipped scum but his style is not necessarily a scumtell. Ircher's point system is scummy, but because of your knowledge about Ircher it's town. Nahdia is lean-scum, because ...??? Magna is okay, but wasn't he telling the same thing in the post quoted as you did? You could have called

me

scum because of the same reasoning.
Correct me if I'm wrong about my interpretations.

My inital scumread on TehBrawlGuy has turned into a town read, especially in light of posts like #1178.

What was so good in 1178?

I hate Nadhia's tunnel on Ircher. Like, it sucks. It reeks of trying to come off as way too confident when the substance behind the read is really small. In particular, I dislike her trying to paint Ircher's point system as somehow scummy. At the very worst, that's a completely null tell. On the other hand though, we actually sort of hiveminded on our read on Anen, and I actually think her read is solid even though I really wish she would give more logic for it. I also like her pretty solid questioning of Titus.

Why was Nahdia's push on Ircher terrible and her push on me good?
Also, where did she perform that "solid questioning of Titus"?

When it comes to Aneninen, I initially thought his catch-up posts were pretty great, and called out a lot of my own similar reads. However, since he's caught up, it feels like he's kind of been flailing/coasting, and his reads are coming off as weaker and weaker as the day progresses.
For example, his post #569 comes off as weirdly (

...

)

Why had you ignored me totally until this post?
Your read (along with your vote in your next post) feels as if you tried to test the waters whether my wagon would gain momentum.

Persivul is probably scum too. His attacks are super weak and it seems like he's grasping at straws to find reads - particularly in posts #950, #986, and #792 all come off as really, really desperate.

Have you ever played with him before?

Anyone that I didn't mention is null/scum.

Explain why null/

scum

.

(1) Anybody who's voting for a 1 man wagon needs to jump off, reread, and pick a wagon
(2) Anybody who's voting TehBrawlGuy is either stupid, scum, or not paying attention
(3) Anybody who's voting ircher, that ship has sailed and it's time for you to stop doggy paddling towards it
In other words
(4) Everyone vote heuristic. I could also do with a wagon swimg onto ETL.

(1) We still have more than 4 days, but okay, let's say I agree.
(2) Why? What's so town in his posts?
(3) "That ship has sailed"? That ship was never a good idea.
(4) I want him to answer the things addressed to him above in this post first.

I wouldn't mind lynching ETL or Nosferatu.

can someone direct me to a post or posts that give me a general reason why I should vote TBG?

Seth wagon is looking like it's probably not going to go through and day is ending soon.

Persivul mentioned ETL and Nosferatu (why those two) and Nosferatu popped in two minutes later. Wasn't that a Beetlejuice?

Anen, I get the opposite conclusion about Brawl. The fact that he decided to look up whether it's considered normal to have two scum teams shows that he doesn't have inside knowledge on whether we're dealing with that or not. I also got the opposite impression on something Nahdia said but don't care to discuss that much.

But we had been talking a lot about that before Brawl asked that question!
Care to explain the last sentence?

Egg, brawl, ircher, me, and Persivul should all vote together in a block. Expedience and projectmatt are also invited.

Thoughts?

Why those?

I probably might be off for saying this as I don't have much ground for saying much lol, but for what people are saying (with her fearmongering and being a hypocrite and all). I'll try to do an ISO of her later, but until then.
VOTE: Titus
I am only semi-useless now yaaaaaaaay!

^this seems very town regardless of titus' alignment.

He is, but that vote is dumb in this situation.
I have been called dumb because of votes like that getting close to Deadline so many times that you can't imagine.

Mod

: With out talking about on going games I will just say either replace me or replace Seth, and for why check the bans thread. I refuse to play with them.

That is unnecessary.

Umm pardon me but whose demand. That block has three scum in it, at least.

So you can kiss my ass on this block.

What sort of block would

you

suggest? (And this doesn't mean that if you suggested one I'd agree.)

I think she if she were faking it, she would have been more apt to change her "reads" more.

More apt? I think you should check the first posts in Nahdia's ISO.

Will continue if you need more. Plus, I've played twice with ETL. She was town once and scum once. Her tone as town was ruder and more aggressive. This game is more like her scum game. She eventually became obnoxious in that one as well, but she kept her cool on D1 for the most part.

I wanted to get a read on ETL and I asked a lot of things from her but ever since she's been on V/LA.
We need to see more from her.

[Aneninen]

Copper:
Right now, lean-town.
I can see a town-mindset behind his interrogating gameplay and he's trying to engage everyone.
Earlier I thought his push on me was pigeon poop. He started focusing on my Malkavian post (Which I made for testing others' reactions but it didn't work out since most players ignored it. Because of the general ignorance I can tell this now.) – and he ignored that I had had plenty of other posts too. But that could have come from a paranoid town mind.
Why do you think he's scum?

As for Titus: she's producing the most content, usually more than the next two on the list. Regardless of alignment. ^_^


Persivul: Your points about ETL are valid, but I want to see something from her before the Day ends. And yes, right now answers from eg. Heuristic and Nahdia are top priority for me. By the way, you can ask questions too.

[Aneninen]

Nosferatu is not a bad lynch.

1255... That looked like a Beetlejuice.

The way he approached the conversation with me makes me think he is probing for weaknesses to see if I'm a viable lynch instead of trying to figure me out (both the tone and the content).

I've just taken a look at his ISO once more. He seems to dislike almost everything and everyone, not only you. I don't know whether it is alignment indicative, I've never played with him before.
As for him figuring you out? I'll check it later if needed. I've cared little about that because I haven't been scumreading you.

@Anen, I wouldn't make a vote block. Rather, I would ask my townreads to vote within my scum pool. Right now, one of my scumreads is weakening, but I am withholding which one because this has the recipe for quick wagonning by scum. Zakk throwing out a pool with brawl and Persivul voting together screams that scum are going to try to flash wagon ETL or Nos.

Could be.
I too didn't get why Persivul mentioned ETL and Nos out of nowhere, but Nosferatu's quick answer I think was Beetlejuice.

You cannot see anything from ETL by deadline. She's been VLA. After she left, scum rapidly began floating her as a mislynch. ETL is a good investigation target. Persivul should be vigged with a bowl of ice cream.

ETL's coming back tomorrow so she may post something.
I still don't think Persivul's town.

Do you know who my scum block is?

I do have ideas but you can recapitulate it if you wish.

I can see two possible motivations behind your posts; one is prob-town, one is prob-scum.
Answer this:
Who else are you scumreading and why?

the answer to this question is in my ISO.

Not really.

Your first 3 posts were readlists without any reasoning.
Then you voted of Ircher in 951 with this:

"ok i made it to page 33 and now im lazy"

.
Until 974 you expressed your towread on Persivul (no reasoning but you mentioned ISO-ing him) and Cy (because of the wagon on him; that's okay.)
Posted your reasons for your scumread on Ircher in 979.
999 is about Magna (some explanation).
Then voted for Copper in 1022 (no explanation).
You asked this from Magna in 1023:

"ok manga do u want the cold harsh truth as to why i am scumreading u?"

– he refused it. I wonder why you asked Magna and why you're refusing to answer me.
1035 and 1037 – it boils down to this for me: Ircher is scum because he's scum.
Backpedalled on Ircher in 1009:

" i've seen Ircher make that same style readslist as town."

I asked about it and you started tunnelling me from 1113. The next half of your ISO mostly consists of that.
Apart from this, responding to ProjectMatt in 1228:

"sorry that u flipped scum, matt my friend good vote tho. thank u for bussing."

TL;DR: No, your reads are backed with little-to-no explanation.

Here's another question.

I hate Nadhia's tunnel on Ircher.

Like, it sucks. It reeks of trying to come off as way too confident when the substance behind the read is really small. In particular, I dislike her trying to paint Ircher's point system as somehow scummy. At the very worst, that's a completely null tell.

On the other hand though, we actually sort of hiveminded on our read on Anen, and I actually think her read is solid even though I really wish she would give more logic for it.

I also like her pretty solid questioning of Titus. I think maybe my issue with Nadhia is that our playstyles conflict - so I'm not really willing to say that she's scum. In light of the push on Anen that seems to be coming from a town place, she's far more likely to be town.

What do you think of this? (The most important facts are highlighted by me.)

VOTE: egg
Pretty sre of this

And that needs explanation.

[Aneninen]

@Anen, It might be beetle juice. That is null though. My scum pool is TBG, zakk, Shotty, Persivul and Copper. Matt is making a run for a slot though.

(The list is fixed according to a later post.)

That Beetlejuice. Null or not, we need more content from Nosferatu. I wouldn't oppose lynching him but I think there are much better ideas.

Your list.
TBG – agreed.
Zakk – don't think so, but his push on ETL is concerning.
Shotty – I'm not entirely sold on him.
Persivul – same az Zakk.
Copper – bad idea.
As for Matt, you could answer too what I asked from Nahdia in 1307. What do you think of that quote?

Yeah, my life expectancy is near zero. Scum are saying that Titus is a possible NK in the middle of the thread.

What would be the point of that? Or was that a joke?

Also it's kind of adorable that you scum read most of my top town reads
And wouldn't it be ironic if the same group decided to blockvote you

And what if your townreads are wrong?
I'm not sold on town-Titus but I don't think she'd be the best lynch. And oh wait, you told the same in your 1312...

@Anen
Please do so...

Re-checked it.
Firstly, I don't like Magna's case on you. It consists of (1) you're going after low hanging fruits and (2) you're focusing on too few players. I even pointed it out once that both of these fit many other players.
But. There's much more in his ISO about eg. Brawl, ETL, Zakk or me. If he indeed searched for "weak and lynch-able links" (you meant that, didn't you), he could have found better targets, I guess. Brawl I too find scummy and the other three names wasn't wagoned at all. (Indeed, there are votes for both ETL and me, but there weren't at the time he was pushing us.)

[Aneninen]

@egg why ignore my vote?

And you still haven't explained that vote!

OK
VOTE: ETL

Vote: ETL

Autobots, transform and roll out! Lol

Nnnnnnnnnnnn.
That's both lazy and bad.

Anen, 554 was the post I was asking about, yes.

Spoiler:

(1) There's the way you answered drmy's question about you even though it was clearly meant for copper
(2) There's your misrep of drmy's comments about his 80% scum win rate.
(3) There's your stressed out reaction to the wagon as well as demanding six cases to defend against instead of scumthunting. Then when you get those cases (or at least mine) you dismiss it as bullshit and go on to act like a case was never made.
(4) There's the way you went out of your way to mention you'd only been scum twice after you implied that drmy draws scum a lot and that makes him somehow more likely to be scum.
(5) There's the way you tried to attack me for focusing on the player I'm voting (seriously, what?)
(6) There's your "Seth is SK" push (which I forgot about so maybe an Ircher/Seth team doesn't make as much sense as I'd thought) and the fact that you voted himfor it rather than anyone you thought was mafia.
(7) Your point that drmy was scum for confirmation bias was pretty bad.
(8) You OMGUS pretty badly
(9) Your ISO thing looks like busywork.

(1) Null.
(2) Those posts about different statistics were indeed bad and made me wonder at that time.
(3) I don't think asking for a case is scummy. (Remember Sharing is Caring. TexCat did the same when she had been wagoned. She was Cop.)
(4) See (2).
(5) I don't remember that.
(6) He was not the only one who interpreteted that post form Seth as an SK-claim/slip/whatever.
(7) The whole Ircher–Shotty fight is boring, I think. If you meant by conf-bias the statistics, see (2).
(8) Ircher is a kind of "reactive player". He finds players scumreading him scummy as town; I've seen it twice.
(9) Typical gameplay from town-Ircher.

(8) and (9) are the main points why I don't think Ircher's scum.

We have not gotten a single fucking wagon going large until this point. Why do you think that is?

I've been pondering about the same thing. Maybe scums have been trying to counter a wagon which could reach a lynch anytime. But none of these counters seem to have worked so far.
Most votes have been accumulated on Ircher and Cy (6–6 each). And I personally don't think either of them is scum.
TheBrawl has had 5 (and I think he's scum), Seth had had 4 (could be, but his latests made me think).
And there have been six players with 3–3 votes: Copper, Magna, KillTheStory, Heuristic, Titus, Aneninen. Some or most of these names could be those counters.

Expedience. What was the conclusion of your 1337?

(1) 102 is TBG accusing Ircher and Shotty of bein buddies and saying Titus's case on me has no merit, what's so lazy and terrible about it?
(2) I see your pont about the cythefly comment, I again don't get the "safe" scum reads one though, Titus is not a safe scum read to make.
(3) 603 is consistent with his position in 102 that Ircher/Shotty is a thing.
(4) I again see your point in 804, but all of these players are objectively scummy (because they still lack experience on how to present themselves or are actually obv. scum) so it doesn't sound that crazy to me that he would take these stances.

(1) It was his

first

post and he jumped on the leading wagon with very little reasoning.
(2) Titus was only "slight" scum. Shotty, Ircher, Cy and Seth were all real lynch-possibilities at that time. Calling any of them scum didn't "stand out" of the game. Can you follow me?
(3) It is consistent, but I meant the very last part of that post.
(4) Maybe you're right here.

[Aneninen]

By the way,

Mod!

Can't we have some extention? We've got an empty slot!

[Aneninen]

I see your point.
And there have been things from Ircher I really don't like. (Quick recapitulation: those posts about statistics; voting for TheBrawl because of going on V/LA later instead of voting for a scumread of him – the two most terrible.) But I remember him doing similar WTF things in both games I met him. He was town.

As for Ircher, here's another idea. Therefore, scums have

never

met him before could see him as an easy mislynch (because he's sometimes doing scummy things as town) whereas scums have

already

met him could keep away from scumreading him (because he's reactive). Even if the latter description would fit me too, we should remember this later, after he flips.

[Aneninen]

Okay, this is technicanlly a drunkpost.

All I know that I've had constant problems with catching up without missing vital things. Then I stopped detailed catchups becuase of that. I've had cnstant problems with forming reads too. Yeah. most probably because of the previousn things.

I'm posting this because I can see that there will be even less time in the forthcoming day s to post, you know, IRL things and so. And that's all I can tell now.
I'd tell you eagerly how unfocused I've been because of another IRL things, like, getting married for example but you'd call it simply ATE so what's the point?

Since I'M VT I'm not a bad lynch with so many scumreads on me, because it coudl have been worse for a Day1 lynch. I could show my meta too, with games got lynched on day1 or without any reason but I bet most of you would ignore that too.

But before getting lynched, I think I have to point out something.
Nahdia has never explained WHY that post from me was that scummy. She has also refused to give me proper answers. Noone seemed to have bat an eye.
Lowelll simply jumped on with no additional content.
Matt at least tried to post some reasons. When I asked others about the post I quoted before, yet again, noone cared.
As for ETL.
She ignored those who were voting for her while she wasn't even here and jumped on me because of a post which had a context but she ignored that. Actually Titus's explanatino about it is not correct. I meant in that post that I tend to do so as town and it's obvious that I have more than one townplay's . Many of you may have seen some of them. And as far as I can see the post, yes, it is a bit problematic now, I referred to Cy's gameplay which looked like one of my tonwplays, actually a former one but I'm still using it. (You know, I wish I had had chosen the "fake-crumbing something and launch a you-or-me attack on my strongest scumread" play. Fuck it.)
Copper voted without anything added.
Nosfeeratu is tiptoing the wagon without adding content.
Have I missed someone?
So, I don't think I'll have time to do something useful now, but you should consider all those things above later. Especially the fact that there has never been a case on me and I'm wondering as whose counter have I been pushed.

That's all I can say right now.

[Aneninen]

And do no t fucking ask questions, I 'm unable to answer now.
And don't have time tomorrow.

Or have I posted it yet?

[Aneninen]

Was?
Ich meine, womit sollen wir einverstanden sein?!

[Aneninen]

WHut?

Wirst du auch drunkposting?

And thanks for your congratulieren
or
what

I'll be banned one day because of doing this.

[Aneninen]

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
Ich lasse euch spielen

Ich hasse mein tomorrow with all the work


Hail Nehalennia!


ETL heeft schönes Haar

Ich erinn're mich als ich m'n photo geupladen had en iemand heeft 't gesagt m'n lul te klein is lololololololololololololololololololol!

[Aneninen]

I know all of you are going to hate me now, but

mod: I'm on V/LA until Friday.

Because of all the things I need to do IRL I don't think I'll be able to do anything useful in the next two days.
I'm really sorry!

I remember Egg's question, I'll answer that later.
Also, if there's anything I should respond to, please point it out!

ETL is most probably town, Nosferatu is most probably scum. I'll explain that later too, although I had both reads yesterday or something like that. (At that time I at least tried to read a couple of pages and I haven't had any time since then.)

Also Titus (or maybe someone else too?), thanks for your congratulation, although the ceremony will take place in August. We had the official part on my birthday. ^_^

Sorry again!
And I know I'm an aßhole now.

[Aneninen]

Sort of back.

Can someone summarize the most important things which have happened on the last about 25 pages?

[Aneninen]

There has been a lot of votes on you, your on the verge of being lynched.

Do you have any answer back to that?

If that were true, I'd say lynch me because the Deadline's coming.

Sort of back.

Can someone summarize the most important things which have happened on the last about 25 pages?

I called BS on the TBG wagon and told Titus that, since I'm an equal scum read of hers, to wagon me. I'm town but offering myself up for info. There hasn't been a CW.

Yeah, I saw the latest Vote Count.
What's the case?

[Aneninen]

Firstly, before catching-up.

I know it's my fault that I hadn't mentioned it before it happened, but we shouldn't ever have lynched Persivul. It should have been a red flag that there had been NO real counter at all. In short, we had a lynch which gave us no VCA-information at all. Scums may or may not have been on the wagon and because of the flip noone stands out as a possibility at all. And I, personally, had never seen that horribly-strong Persivul case.
I know that I'm terrible now. If I had had more time, I would have pointed this out in time.

[Aneninen]

Given those flips, I am ok with Copper or Anen being pressured a bit. You still need 3 more. :-p

@shotty, you mean mainly that I was right on kill and ETL.

You had been hard-townreading me before those flips. Can you explain this?

But I did know he would be lynched. He was. If I thought he wasn't, I would've voted for him.

Exactly, copper. Why are you trying to avoid voting Persivul, Nosferatu?

Not trying to. I just don't need to.

This is pigeon poop. And it's not the only thing that I don't like about you.

I think she is enjoying herself with her

random pushes without explanaitions

a bit too much and after having had more exposure to her playstile I think this is scum indicative.

(This was about Nahdia.) Indeed, and that's not the only thing.

Zakk's 2290 is reasonable.
There's one thing to add. I'd say, a ScumTeam/SK/Vig Nightkill scheme is much more likely. Given the fact we have 3 VT flips (I'm VT too) and a Town Neighbour flip, I don't think two ScumTeams are too probable. I mean, should it be, it may be eg. 15:3:3, but with quite a lot of town-PRs, and according to the flips there may be few town-PRs.

If so

, KTS is indeed a kind of Vig-kill, but I wouldn't rule out a scumhunting SK. TheBrawl looks like an SK-kill, but that may have come from a Vig. Thus, ETL seems to be the Mafia Nightkill. I, personally, think it happened because she's a strong player and she was obv-town (although I must admit that I've never explained that read). However, as someone said, her reads may have been dangerous to the scums, too. BUT, that's only speculation.

Going on soon.

[Aneninen]

Even I have minor reservations on the Persivul wagon, but there's no way I am going for KTS. This is the wierdest collective response to a fake hammer in my recollection.

VC please

ETL, the reads you wanted to give please?

ok I've got shaziro, you, nahdia, liger, magna as town Zakk and pers as maybe town
copper maybe scum. shotty is ??? maybe scum? cy maybe scum less nulls than before but still more than I'd like atm. hang on. need to look at my list. (I'm mobile)

egg maybe scum. HA scum. expedience town. ircher kop are both still unknown. ircher because I don't know what I'm seeing in his ISO. prob lean more town on him than kop. I think Lowell might be town and tbg is null for the same reason ircher is. I can't make up my mind tbere. stuck.

So, Nahdia, you said that you agreed with these.
ETL named these players as scum: Copper, Shotty (?), Cy (?), Egg (?), Heuristic/Shaziro. Yet you were unable to fill in a list of five scummy players.

titus here's my list.
copper
aneninem
titus
you choose, or i will for u. and u won't like my choice.

VOTE: Shotty

seriously why?

^_^
Parrotting that.

Kop is the likeliest hipster scum on the CW, 7 posts mostly dedicated to target Persi without voting for him, reaction testing Aneninen without a follow-up and voting for the random lynch. Seth was bad enough but the replacement actually made it worse.

That is indeed true.
But we need more from Kop. Seth was bad indeed, but his latests (especially that "Pigeon post" about me) told me that I might have been wrong about him.

Not sure if anybody else noticed, but since I replaced HA, ETL's reads there were kinda wonky. HA was scum, but I was town...I don't think that's how replacing in works.

I too noticed that.
(But I had no time to play, blah, blah, sorry.)

[Aneninen]

I'm going to avoid the temptation to gloat about the fact that all of my townreads were right, and suggest this:

Vote: Aneninen

Mm-hm. Yeah, you're a stubborn player indeed.
Still, I'm digging this up because it has been NEVER explained:

I hate Nadhia's tunnel on Ircher. Like, it sucks.

It reeks of trying to come off as way too confident when the substance behind the read is really small. In particular, I dislike her trying to paint Ircher's point system as somehow scummy. At the very worst, that's a completely null tell.

On the other hand though, we actually sort of hiveminded on our read on Anen, and I actually think her read is solid even though I really wish she would give more logic for it

. I also like her pretty solid questioning of Titus. I think maybe my issue with Nadhia is that our playstyles conflict - so I'm not really willing to say that she's scum. In light of the push on Anen that seems to be coming from a town place, she's far more likely to be town.

And it's strange that no one has noticed this:

projectmatt it's such a shame that we have all the same reads and thoughts on this game

but you're scum and im town

ill vote with u tho thank u for bussing [:
VOTE: Aneninem

Nahdia posted a "five-name" list with three actual names.
She agreed with ETL's reads but, as I posted it, she NEVER included those names on her list.
But, it's even more strange that she's kept telling that ProjectMatt is scum (she even posted that Matt was bussing me), YET he's not on his list either AND she voted for me right after Matt.

Adding this to the unexplained part from Matt above plus Matt's attitude to the Persivul-wagon (ISO him, there's quite a lot of content), tells me that Matt must be scum.
If so, Nahdia may be scum, too.

Here's another example:

yah you were like "hah matt is scum" after i did my catch-up/analysis post but i'm not sure why. as long as you continue to have other reads that don't suck, i'm not particularly bothered by it.

radical. we have an understanding. an

accord

even. we can work together as long as u keep bussing ur partners. and who knows, maybe u will eventually magically become town. for now we are at peace

VOTE: Shotty

seriously why?

Also I'm beginning to think this might be a long con after all, and that we're watching the most sustained double-bussing ever.

I don't think so. Do you have anything that can back your idea up?

Titus, Lowell, AND Nadia - what do you think of the last minute wagon trend AWAY from Persivul even though all scum whatever kind knew he wasn't them? And with KTS flipping town too even more WTF

What if certain players were never sold on that Persivul-case?

also, why did ETL die?

Check one of my posts above.

VOTE: Titus
Am I the only person that finds it sus that she has taken a leadership position in this game and with three dead people, she's not one of them?

That's bad.
You know, not everyone can die at the same Night. If eg. ETL were alive now, would you vote for her just because of that?

VOTE: Shotty

seriously why?

Also I'm beginning to think this might be a long con after all, and that we're watching the most sustained double-bussing ever.

It's possible, but it would be hard to make it look authentic.

Whut?

[Aneninen]

Anen_scum being on the 3rd beauty wagon before going V/LA makes a lot of sense, if Anen is scum then Magma likely is as well (see Anen's defence / not defence when I asked him what he thought about my push on him).

I do not buy the case for Zakk_scum.

Erm... what?
Are you saying that I had known what sort of wagons had been going to emerge later when I had to V/LA?

So help me get more out of that slot by pressuring it with a vote, Kop doesn't seem to volunteer much information on his own.

If he keeps doing nothing, I may do so.
But, I have better ideas. Firstly, check the post above about Matt/Nahdia.
Secondly, Nosferatu.

441 – A lazy jump on Seth. (Mind that he posted that he hadn't done reading – but the rest of that "reading" had never arrived.)

1255 – I called it a Beetlejuice. Yeah, I may have been wrong about it, but his REACTION to that was terrible. 1263:

"I don't like how he painted my last post as a Beetlejuice tell

when persivul just ninjad me

."

– Most players tell being ninja-ed instantly or not mention it at all. So, this sounded like a nervous explanation for something which might have disappeared in the thread later.

Back to 1263 – He shadowed my wagon when it existed and there had been a chance for it gaining momentum.

1375 – Accusing Persivul performing a Chainsaw looks horrible now, knowing Persivul was town.

In my opinion, 1408 was the worst post from him. He DID translate my terrible drunkpost (and assuming he's neither German nor Dutch, it must have taken serious effort!). But he did NEVER draw any conclusion out of it! Even if he had a scumread on me at that time... That's something scums often do when they don't know whether a wagon will gain momentum or not.

1896 –

"if the mod wanted a group of all town with a PT, he'd make them masons."

, about the Neighbourhood. As far as I can remember, at that time the "there must be a scum in the hood" topic had been emerged. His logic was bad in itself, but if I'm right about him and he's scum, we should consider the possibility of an all-town Neighbourhood. (I've seen things like that, link will be provided if needed.)

(By the way, 2025 was a joke which I find null in itself.)

And I've already talked about eg. his 2274; 2275 was WTF (filling out Nahdia's list), and his whole interaction with Shaziro makes him look even worse.

VOTE: Nosferatu

[Aneninen]

Anen, that was a really ugly OMGUS that I'm too lazy to counter right now but probably will tomorrow. Would you care to expand on that logic? What specifically about the content of my reaction toward the Pers wagon threw you off?

Try again. You've constantly evaded explaining the highlighted part about Nahdia's pushes.
As for your Persivul-attitude, 1226 (okay, a scumread, but with little explanation compared to your reads on others), 1745 (shadowing the wagon), 2245 (your Persivul-read didn't seem to change, his posts affected it in neither way), just to name a couple of things.

What do you think of Nahdia's read on you?

[Aneninen]

Erm... what?
Are you saying that I had known what sort of wagons had been going to emerge later when I had to V/LA?

More like you are a possible left-over from the scum transfer from TBG to Persivul.

I still don't get you. I didn't scumread Persivul at all. His ETL-push was the only thing looked scummy. I know I haven't read those pages I missed thoroughly, but the whole case was at least partly based upon that "scum in the Neighbourhood" theory. What do you think of that?

@Anen
Tackle the big questions, is Titus scum?

I want to see her answer for my question right now.

[Aneninen]

I am trying to make sense of that anomaly in your reads.

Anomaly?
Here's the anomaly if you call it so.
I've never agreed her read on you and I didn't understand her hard-town read on me Yesterday. Both of them may have come from town but from scum too. I don't get her change on me because of the Nightkills and I want to see her explanation.

Regarding the PT, as I already explained, if there is one it's Magma, there are some things that point at him being town and some scum (those I already mentioned, he claimed to be vetting me to make use of the PT but then had a terrible connection (which I believe) but didn't even ask me a question in the post he made, he also claimed to be scumreading TBG and shotty, that shows little read adaptation after the NK cause it would imply TBG WK'd his CW as scum and that would be a really weird move.

I don't think you or Liger are scum. Although we definitely need more content from Liger. So, if there's a scum in the Hood, it must be Magna.

P.s. What would your reaction be if I shot TBG?

She hinted at it.

That seemed more like a reaction test to me. Interesting.

The latter one is more likely.

[Aneninen]

OFF

It's all that duolingo man. I'm apparantly 26% fluent in german thanks to it

Die Besonderheit ist dass Du Persi als Bürger und TBG als Mafioso gelesen hast.

Someone should mod a game in German. I'd really like to practize my German too. You know, there's always room for improvement.

ON

I don't like this case because of the sheer fact that it's so easy to make.

Whut?

The anomaly I am talking about is that you were reading TBG as scum but Persi as town.

The hypothesis being: it's unnatural so maybe you didn't get to coordinate the read switch like the rest of your team cause you were V/LA.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're scumreading me because you're afraid of the possibility that I'm scum. (Maybe because of JK9. But I'm not as good as you think, regardless of my alignment.)
Or at least, you should consider this: I'm town, I have my own reads and I don't have to coordinate them with anyone else's.

Spoiler: Nosferatu's post

1.

"lazy attack on seth"

- lazy because?? probably because no immediate explanation or follow up. Something I do not do regularly. (see davesaz vote in game shop mafia)
*also I did finish reading, but I didn't make any conclusion. I don't usually make long catchup posts but I don't remember having to catch up in any recently completed games so idk.

2.

"reaction to beetlejuice was terrible"

- nervous why?? Persivul posted less than a minute before me. The likelihood of me responding that quickly to being mentioned is infinitesimal. Totally reasonable to be suspicious of someone questioning your alignment off of a pure chance occurrence.

3. There's nothing of mine in 1263. I posted once on the page and I asked for explanation on the TBG wagon.

4.

"accusing persivul of chainsawing is horrible based on his town flip"

- why? With this logic, accusing persivul of doing anything scum would do is terrible when that's simply not true. Both town and scum were on that wagon, and to make any accusation scummy is illogical.

5.

"didn't make conclusions from drunk post"

- apparently I was supposed to be able to interpret a drunkpost in a foreign language and make a conclusion as to his alignment from it. It was barely coherent German in the first place, how would a foreigner such as myself or anyone for that matter be able to draw anything from that. No one else did. Surely someone else scum read him as well, but none are held to this standard.

6.

"his neighborhood logic doesn't make sense"

- This isn't a scummy point but it also doesn't make sense. How does my opinion regarding neighborhoods (might you I'm not a neighbor) pave way to the possibility of an all-town neighborhood?

7.

"whole interactions with shaziro make him look even worse"

- not really. I mean sure you could say I was being anti-town; I really could've just done the world a favor and dug up a game, but I didn't. That's not scummy though. I'm not pushing any sort of agenda with that, I'm just being obtuse.

All of these points are either shoddy or are things other people have noted before. The case is just an appeal to as many people as possible. Everything that hasn't been already put forth by someone else is half-baked.

1. It was lazy. You just jumped on the wagon you thought it had been moving. Also, you finished reading but didn't draw conclusions. Yeah, sounds legit.
2. Beetlejuice IS a tell. I repeat: I may have been wrong about it, but the fact that you mentioned later that you'd been ninja-ed, THAT made me think that you'd got nervous.
3. Sorry, misspelled. 1362, not 1263.
4. Persivul was town, therefore he could Chainsaw no one. Got it?
5. So, you translated my drunkpost only for fun? (According to your answer to Copper which took place later.) Huh.
6. I may have phrased it poorly, but I said this: if you flip scum, we may have an all-town Neighbourhood, because you hinted that "why not Masons" thing.
7. Huh? Are you saying that you were anti-town but not scummy?
+1 Since I was missing for a long time Yesterday, yeah, there could be points having pointed out by others. Do you really think it makes my case invalid?

What's no counter got to do with anything? Besides, there were counters throughout the day. In particular, Kill and Brawl, both of whom were town. Finally, the wagon flipped town so this post seems ex post facto rather than genuine.

By the time the Persivul-wagon gained momentum there had been no counters

matching

his wagon.
I understand your point of view, though, I would find a post like that scummy too if it had come from a player who had produced

nothing else

.

*checks in*
so zakk and titus and copper all still breathing?
ok.
*checks out*

What do you think of Nosferatu?

@shaz, you got pretty excited for a minute there when you thought someone had claimed something. Anything else you're interested in?

Hmmmmmmmmmm...

[Aneninen]

For Nosferatu

Spoiler: The good old Nosferatu–Malkavian wall

1. It was lazy. You just jumped on the wagon you thought it had been moving. Also, you finished reading but didn't draw conclusions. Yeah, sounds legit.
2. Beetlejuice IS a tell. I repeat: I may have been wrong about it, but the fact that you mentioned later that you'd been ninja-ed, THAT made me think that you'd got nervous.
3. Sorry, misspelled. 1362, not 1263.
4. Persivul was town, therefore he could Chainsaw no one. Got it?
5. So, you translated my drunkpost only for fun? (According to your answer to Copper which took place later.) Huh.
6. I may have phrased it poorly, but I said this: if you flip scum, we may have an all-town Neighbourhood, because you hinted that "why not Masons" thing.
7. Huh? Are you saying that you were anti-town but not scummy?
+1 Since I was missing for a long time Yesterday, yeah, there could be points having pointed out by others. Do you really think it makes my case invalid?

What's no counter got to do with anything? Besides, there were counters throughout the day. In particular, Kill and Brawl, both of whom were town. Finally, the wagon flipped town so this post seems ex post facto rather than genuine.

By the time the Persivul-wagon gained momentum there had been no counters

matching

his wagon.
I understand your point of view, though, I would find a post like that scummy too if it had come from a player who had produced

nothing else

.

*checks in*
so zakk and titus and copper all still breathing?
ok.
*checks out*

What do you think of Nosferatu?

@shaz, you got pretty excited for a minute there when you thought someone had claimed something. Anything else you're interested in?

Hmmmmmmmmmm...

1. I jumped on a wagon I thought scumslipped. And in the third fornight, I didn't finish reading up with a catchup post with conclusions either. Go figure.
2. I don't see how my reaction is indicative of nervousness at all.
3. I don't see how I was gauging the momentum for your wagon there. I said I was fine with it.
4. If only there were words for how terrible that argument is. Abhorrent. Schlecht. Mal. плохой. It basically scumpaints every argument as to why a person is scum with another person.
5. yup.
6. no, not at all. I'm not in a neighborhood. I know nothing about any neighborhoods other than the ones outed. How does me flipping scum have anything to do with having an all-town neighborhood?
7. Anti-town and scummy are two different kinds of behaviour. Once again see game shop mafia. Over 50 pages of pure anti-town banter right smack in the middle that lasted for about 3 days. Neither of the exponents flipped scum.

1. Need I be amused that you "didn't finish reading up with a catchup post with conclusions either"?
2. I still think you got nervous after I called your post a Beetlejuice. In other words, that could have been a "getting scumread for the wrong reason" tell. (And I strongly think nowadays it IS a very strong tell.)
3. Fine with it without a vote. It IS scummy to shadow a wagon without putting a vote there. Actually you did something similar, as for the Persivul wagon. 2274! You weren't there because you... didn't need to?! Why am I reading this like "luckily, the lynch on a townie happened without me being on the wagon"?
4. Okay, maybe it's not a tell

in itself

. Maybe I think it so because of the other things against you. Got it?
5. Okay. You spent a lot of time with a post which was terrible. I may believe that you thought a drunkpost would be "honest". And you drew no conclusion. But you translated it for fun. This doesn't add up.
6. I'm quoting it from your 1896:

"if the mod wanted a group of all town with a PT, he'd make them masons."

– THAT IS WHY I think you know more about the alignments in that Neighbourhood than I do.
7. Yes, Anti-town =/= scummy. But, scums DO act more likely anti-town, because their WinCon doesn't match town's. (And even if I don't remember the exact games I know that I've seen this reasoning from scums before!)

[Aneninen]

I agree with Nos about your fourth point

Check above.
I see both your and his points. You're right: if that had been the ONLY thing, I wouldn't call it essentially scummy. But I'm scumreading Nosferatu because of other things too, that point strengthens my read.

@Anen, Pressure =/= lynch you. I personally refused to vote you for a reason, I think you're town.

I don't get it. Why would you like to see more pressure on me if you think I'm town?

If it is, don't out reaction tests. That generally ruins them.

^^
That.

My problem with the Zakk vote is that I don't like that Shotty is on it, as I'm not really liking Shotty for town this game.

They're bussing each other. Scum do that. 100% town wagons on scum rarely happen. Find scum, lynch them. Worry if multiple scumreads get on or a vote is really bad and cannot be a bus.

If it were that easy.

I reserve the right to go back to Nos at any time if that wagon gains more serious legs.

There's always a place for you there. And for others, too.

VOTE: shotty
If and when shotty flips scum, we can lynch his partner, zakk.

Whut?
With Zakk being wagoned this made zero sense. Unless Kop is scum with Zakk?

yeah.
you, titus, and lowell all need to go

Those are terrible ideas.

being wagoned is great tbh. gives me more of an incentive to pay attention to a game plus it makes it personal

Uhhhhhhhhhh this and the other one quoted above.
What if Zakk's bad-town?

there's a lot of posts in this thread i don't care abotu because they don't involve votes for anen or copper

Not only have you never posted a real case against either me or Copper but you also have been ignoring EVERYTHING ELSE happening in the thread.
Why are players townreading her?

ugh this was a town response!
VOTE: titus if it wasn't there.

Ok fine let's join together and lynch titus

Bad idea.

I however feel shotty Is the best wagon that will paint a picture better than zakk.

Why?

[Aneninen]

Before catching-up.
I don't think Seth's post about me was worth a ban.
When I read it I literally lol-ed. I even quoted some parts of it at my workplace with the comment "wow, he actually described everything that I've been doing all the time!"

[Aneninen]

@Anen, Because I a) want to see who jumps and b) I am not going to hard defend you to the point of denying information when you're fully capable of actually doing well.

Okay, that makes sense.

Anen feels just like Open 627 where I scumpainted him good. Right now between the two of you,I would take him because I an talk to him.

For your information: my gamestyle greatly depends on non-alignment factors, eg. how much time I have, what sort of play I choose before the game even starts, etc.

Ok, doe, as of NOW I am going to try to take this game seriously lol.

I only have one real reason why I'm voting Titus, but I feel it's an important one: She is too much in a leadership position for two people to be killed by non town to kill her.

The only way I can reasonably see that she is town is if someone attacked her, but they were either roleblocked, she had a bulletproof vest on, or the doctor healed her.

Wait-oh.
There were THREE Nightkills. More than enough for a Night.
The bolded part suggests that you actually

know

about a fourth Nightkill which went to Titus and it's missing now.
WTF?!

As for Copper's reads, table and everything. (2512 and around.)
Magna. Good finding about his voting pattern! Indeed, if there's one scum in the Hood, he's the most likely. As for the things happened in the Neighbourhood, I wasn't really able to follow it. He's on V/LA, as far as I can see, and I really want to see something from him as he's back. When did his V/LA start, by the way?
Nahdia. As I said, if I'm right about ProjectMatt, she must be scum, too. If I'm wrong, I don't know whether she's scum or bad-town. She refuses to talk to most of the players. It would be an interesting question who are townreading her and

why

.
Nosferatu. Scummy in himself; he may work together with Matt and Nahdia... but, and I'm contradicting myself, that would be too "obvious". I mean, the "centre" of this trio is Nahdia, and if she's town it's also possible that Matt and Nosferatu are only "riding the waves", hoping that Nahdia flips first.
ProjectMatt. He's done nothing recently which has changed my reads.
Egg. The only thing I can bring up against him is that he's never fully updated. He may be scum avoiding the pressure by this gameplay, but he may be town without enough time. I'd call him a possible investigation target. As for his read on me, I don't remember him having a strong read, somewhere between lean town and lean scum all the time.

I'll do the opposite where Titus is brazen scum later, I need some hours to break out of the mindset I am in now cause at the moment this world seems so likely I'd just confbias the shit out of every read.

Right now I don't think Titus is scum.

Shotty's reads on me and Titus do not feel at all genuine.

Shotty literallly tries to find anything to throw dirt or shade at us, yet you find that genuine?

At US???? Who is your partner?
VOTE: Ircher

Sigh...

Yeah, see this is fake. Us obviously in context says that Snotty is desperately throwing whatever he can at Ircher and me.

(That was a reaction to the post above)
If he hadn't voted for – surprise, surpirse! – Ircher, I'd call it fake. But it may be a simple tunnell-o-vision too.

[Aneninen]

i was pretty impressed, then i was like wait, this is IIoA for town cred!, then i was like oh wait look at the post after it hell yeah!, then i was like -____-

Why was that important?

then i was like... why did you skip the analysis of lowell?

Kop was missing, too.

Also I love that when zakk's wagon got some legs, you switched off. Seems like you got nervous about bussing him.

I'VE BEEN TRYING TO LYNC HIM FOR 100 DAMN PAGES

you haven't been trying very hard

vote me

i think you know i'm gonna flip town but you know it'll make you look bad when i do

And why do you think he keeps tunnelling Ircher?

titus needs to die

most

everyone vote titus

Not happening.

I like zakk's 2553 a lot, especially for calling out copper's ridiculous "vote analysis" as pure fluff.

Ok you can hang.

??? Where was this from?

I'm not going to lie - Copper's vote "analysis" where he is basically just tracking the votes reads as so strange and weird to me that

I can't figure out what the town motivation

is for doing something like that. Is there something I'm missing?

What's the purpose?

(

I'm p. sure someone already called him out on this but I'm lazy and don't remember

).

Also I should probably be more active and a large force in this game, but

every time I look through this thread I pretty much think to myself "huh, yeah, my reads are still fairly similar. cool."

, and

I'm not sure what to post.

I'll probably try to pull off some more analysis/in-depth reading for the sake of my own reads/.

Huh?
You can't see the town motivation but you can't see the purpose either. Therefore, it's scummy. Is that what you're saying?
Also, you mentioned that someone had called it out earlier. Are you hoping that someone else will launch a case you can jump on later?
But the other part is even worse.
How is it possible that your reads are NEVER evolving?
How is it possible that you don't have anything to post? For example you STILL haven't told us anything about the thing I've pointed out a couple of times.
How is it possible that you have NO opinion about eg. the Shotty-Ircher, the Titus-Zakk, the Nosferatu-Aneninen, etc-etc. things?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ProjectMatt

Oh Gods, how I hate to agree with Nosferatu, but his response to Matt tells us all:

its ok, it's totally normal for scum to have trouble figuring out when and what to post. You'll get it eventually

[Aneninen]

That was from being unappreciated, too many players here are writing random snippets without explanation or solely pushing their scum reads without discussion nor compromise with what others are saying and the results are there to be seen.

I've noticed the same. Although I don't think I'm better than the others. Maybe because I'm simply unwilling to vote for quite a couple of players. Including Lowell.

Ask Liger to confirm what was written in the PT if you don't believe me.

That would be useful if Liger and Magna posted something about that PT (as soon as they were back). As I said, I've had difficulties understanding what was going on there.

[Aneninen]

*bats eyelashes* Zakk is flailing guys. Desperately scumreading random people in thread.

He's another one whom I'm unwilling to vote for.

I'm summarizing these town-reads soon.

[Aneninen]

Players I don't want to lynch. And I'm trying to keep it short.

Expedience

. His general attitude. I can see a town-mindset behind. He keeps digging up good points and pointing out interesting things.

Zakk

. Firstly, when he was scum in Killer Instinct he was much more cautious. Right now he's been picking up fights with half of the playerlists. He's pushing terrible wagons – and I don't think any of them will ever go to lynch. I mean, as scum he'd grab every possibility to jump on a more viable counter, eg. Kop, me, whoever. Thirdly, his 1275, which we seem to have forgotten about. I didn't like the idea of that town-block at all, but TheBrawl and Persivul flipped town and I think Ircher's town too (and Egg may be so as well).

Ircher

. He's done nothing that has made me to change my read on him.

Copper

. Not only looks his mindset town but it's also very transparent. The amount of effort taken is not an alignment tell in itself, but he's trying to get a read on everyone. Also, the fact he's pushing Magna. There are quite a lot of players who think there must be a scum in the Neighbourhood. If he were scum, he would be digging his own grave by pushing Magna. Consider this: if Magna gets lynched and he flips town, who's going to look the scummiest in the Hood? (Okay, in theory it's possible that both Magna and him are scums, but f-ck this shyt if it's so.)

Lowell

. He's not too active, but whenever he posts, it makes sense. Although there are quite a lot of reads I disagree/I can't see where is it from (the most important names: Shaziro, Nosferatu, Matt, Ircher, Copper, Kop, Nahdia, Titus) – Lowell, you could tell me more about those!

Titus

. This is partly personal, but I'll try to explain. I think she wanted to see some more pressure on me to confirm her townread (whether I act the same way again as I did in the previous game mentioned by her). Although as I said before, my reactions can be very different regardless of my alignment (examples will be given if needed), I don't think scum-Titus would have ever wasted time on a thing like this.

[Aneninen]

@Anen, once again, your attack feels less like a sincere attack and more like a really bad OMGUS due to the fact that I've been pushing on you the most severely. Your misrepresentation of my post is also really, really bad. I claimed that I couldn't see a town motivation for Copper's post, and I wanted him or someone else to explain the rationale behind it. I never claimed that my reads don't evolve - I said that they've remained the same in the past 5 or 6 real life days. Furthermore, I've stated my thoughts (as far I know) on all of the things that you've mentioned - and I find it silly to repeat myself unnecessarily. I still feel perfectly OK with my vote on you. Just for your sake though, I'll tell you more about the things that I believe I've already spoken about tonight when I get off work.

You're acting as if I didn't have a case and you're trying to discredit me by calling my vote an OMGUS. You've answered nothing to the things I brought up. Eg. Why was Nahdia's push on Ircher bad and her push on me good?
I've posted about Copper but you seem to have ignored that.
Show me your posts where the evolution of your reads have been presented.
You posted a readlist in 1226, which was on Page50. Don't tell me there has been NOTHING in more than 50 pages that has made you to change your mind about at least a couple of things!

I think that I have a propensity to be generally suspected regardless of my alignment, and I think that's because I read/say things that tend to be more honest about where I'm coming from/my perspective, and they tend to get read as classic "scum tells" by other players.

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

@Anen
Is Project the only person you really want to lynch atm?

No.
There's Nosferatu (who is almost as scummy as Matt), Nahdia (if Matt flips scum, she's scum too) and Kop (who needs to explain a thing or two).
I'd really like to see some content from Liger and Magna.

Nothing I disagree with

VOTE: ProjectMatt

Good.
But don't you have anything to respond to my 2594?

btw if this is multiball 90% sure there's a representative of every scum team in the hood, so we should be looking for scum in the hood, not the scum in the hood.

Is this a balance thing, or a ~reasons~ thing?

It's a "I've played in a large game with a neighbourhood before"

That tells nothing about the alignment of the players in THIS Neighbourhood. I've seen all kinds of Hoods so far.

Also, is the Zakk wagon just dying?

Maybe because it would be a bad idea?

copper
expedience
projectmatt
aneninen
titus
This was me giving you guys my list of people willing to lynch today btw.

(This quote has been modified; it was Nosferatu's list using Nahdia's post)

Apart from the third name this list is terrible.

My first game I nailed scum to a cross D1 hehe.

we still made it to LyLo cause no one believed me tho...

5. Do not use tiny text, cryptography or anything along those lines.

You popped in to point this out without posting any useful content. Why?

[Aneninen]

For the record,

Mod

, I've been in the prod zone.

To tell the truth, I went on with my work so well that I simply didn't want to take a brake for playing. Sorry, everyone!

Tomorrow I'll post.

[Aneninen]

Setting up post Magna flip is what this likely is, otherwise this is so unbelievably shit (to use your jargon) that Anen's case on you looks like a excerpt from Plato.

LOLOLOL!
(I must remember this when I start collecting quotes about me for my wiki)

I read the ISOs of all three of the neighbors and it made me think that copper was more town, MoI was most likely to be scum, and Liger was less town than I previously thought.

Can you tell more about the latest part?

VOTE: cytheflyguy

I think this is scum. Looked through his ISO and I can't get a read that says town. And that vote seems more opportunistic than a genuine vote.

Opportunistic?
And what would you call your own vote?

don't vig me im town and i found multiple scum.

Talking about other ongoing games is against the rules. ^_^
/sarcasm

Ok, doe, as of NOW I am going to try to take this game seriously lol.

I only have one real reason why I'm voting Titus, but I feel it's an important one: She is too much in a leadership position for two people to be killed by non town to kill her.

The only way I can reasonably see that she is town is if someone attacked her, but they were either roleblocked, she had a bulletproof vest on, or the doctor healed her.

Wait-oh.
There were THREE Nightkills. More than enough for a Night.
The bolded part suggests that you actually

know

about a fourth Nightkill which went to Titus and it's missing now.
WTF?!

You're misinterpreting what I was saying lmao. I said

if

. Like, how can she be a powerful town player and someone not try to kill her? That just doesn't seem right imo.

There are other powerful players here. Assuming town-Titus would have died by now is still bad logic.

2644–2650 (approximately). I must agree with Titus, those posts from Nosferatu could have been fake.

This is all WIFOM. Proven case if a claimed PR doesn't die, why is it still alive, it must be scum trying to survive. He's doing the same here in regards to Titus.

Cy wasn'T talking about PRs, he was talking about something else. Were you trying to perform a Slippery Slope here?

Just cuz you're leading the tiwn does not mean you are always right, and simetimes scum keep a town leader alive for that reason. I also don't get the 4 kill assumption either.

Parrotting that hard!!!

literally posted about it twice. I don't push my scum reads very often. Town usually end up consolidating a wagon after 4 (5 with titus) people express a scumread on a slot instead of chasing vanity wagons.

Whut? How does that make sense NOT pushing your scumreads?
And the latter part is not essentially true. What did you mean by that "4 (5 with Titus)" part?

As to the similarity with Nahdia's reads, I developed the majority of them D1 and they haven't changed that much since, only additions have been made.

Similarity with Nahdia's reads? Non-changing scumreads? Oh well... who else has non-changing scumreads?

...You developed scum reads day 1 and they haven't evolved at all? Where have I heard that before...

Parrot Bebop Mark 9999999!!!

they have. They're just still here. I also literally said additions have been made. Titus and Kop were added within the last hour man

That's true, on the other hand.
Why did you add Titus? And why did you add Kop? (I want to hear the latter one with your own words. If you don't mind.)

It would be either cytheflyguy or nos that would be getting my vote

Then I'm sure again that Cy is not scum and I have doubts about Nosferatu. Or at least, none of them is scum with Kop.

just something I don't like to do. I'll end up tunneling or spamming up the thread. It's also pretty useless sometimes, because pushing really means ask them a ton of questions that have probably been asked in a different way and just wait for them to slip up, which might never happen. Much better to let everyone else push, and look at overarching scum motivation in actions.

Please, explain how you have used this strategy in this particular game on your own scumreads!

For scum reads, refer to list. For town ..ugh... Ircher and MoI seem town to me.

Not willing to lynch shotty, but I'm not completely against vigging.

That's really it for people I would call probably town.

The underlined part doesn't add up.
Also, two townreads? Is that all?

Going on soon.

[Aneninen]

Ircher, 2682. I can't see that Kop–Copper association. (Although I've just looked into that long post because I have limited time.) Kop definitely looks bad.

Lynch Titus

This idea is just as bad as it was a couple of days ago.

i almost feel like i should just do a fresh re-read of this game to actually figure out my reads.

You really should.
Start with Matt!

I actually have a day off tomorrow.
So, stuff then.

I'm very sorry for being useless, I hope I can help when I get time later but my hold on this game is slipping.

getting to this

And people keep calling ME lazy...

If there is scum in the Neighborhood it is Copper. I’ll revisit his posting but to my recollection his play Day 2 has not lined up very closely with his claimed stances in the QT. His vote analysis posting as others have pointed out isn’t analysis but junk.

Why do you think that analysis was junk?

Liger is Town. Not changing this read.

Care to explain?

Besides, I want to hear Liger's story too about the Neighbourhood QT.

No, it's junk because the premise itself is faulty and garbage. Garbage in, garbage out. Feel free to keep lobbing empty assertions to support your junk but that in a nutshell is the story.

No.
He made an assumption and examined the things according to that. I don't think he'd be unable to change his reads if his assumptions turned out to be wrong.

So if this is correct, and by tomorrow night she is still not dead, could it be safe to assume that her scum reads are wrong?

Not really.
Eg. there was a game I was scum in and I intentionally kept those players for LyLo who had been... scumreading me.

So clearly we are in multiball. With three VT flips no chance of a PGO or some other odd circumstance that could justify a single anti-Town team. Which leads to …
Shotty as scum –

Well looks like some vigs cleared a few things up for us.

Remember when Shotty Day 1 was calling it multiball? Let me refresh your memory.
185 (ok, this is page 4 which in hindsight screams inside info subconscious slip), 1051 –

Yet right out of the gate Day 2 he’s trying to suggest multiple Vigs are responsible for the extra kills. Dollars to donuts that whichever “Non Mafia” shot he is trying to pass off as a Vig had him or his scum team in their end of Day reads.

He’s also dropped both of my meta-read tells for scum Shotty. I’m not elaborating at this point but can if it really becomes necessary.

Looks like a better idea than Copper. But there are better ideas, I suppose.

Also I don’t think Matt is scum. Much of it was dependant on Pers flipping scum which didn’t happen.

Why?
Have you read my posts about him? There are quite a lot of things not in connection with the Persivul-flip.

MoI, I'm just town. Multiball just seemed obvious with the way people were playing.

What way?
Until we have at least one scumflip I can see not much difference as for scumhunting.

I'm going on later. I'm too tired to read now.

[Aneninen]

Where was I?
Around this part, I think.

Ircher – Bad Town per his analysis
Nos -
Seth – oops Kop is nowhere to be found in his “analysis”
Ircher - Bad Town per his analysis
Brawl - Town
Magna
Anen – “town getting pushed by scum”
Brawl - Town
Pers - Town
Kill – Town

It's not even funny how crappy the comparison is, you are even putting blanks instead of scum on the players I am scum reading , are you trying to redefine the definition of misrep?

Actually, Magna, the difference is: most of those players haven't flipped yet. Namely: Nosferatu, Kop, Ircher (plus you and me).

You on the other hand have only voted confirmed town or members of the PT that aren't yourself (all of whom I am fairly certain are also town).

That "members of the PT" part makes me think there may be a full-town Hood. I mean, the same goes for Magna as for you: if there's a scum in the Hood, they can get PoE-scumread easily as everyone else flips town in the Hood. Or get investigated. Vig-Killed. Whatever.

Also, Shotty,

somebody

already said that if you are on a

very small

scum team, you are

likely

to

assume

it is multiball. That is how you would

"know"

,

assumedly

.

something else about this wording in the purple feel off to anyone else? see bolded
it's like
Hey Guys I'm Not Scum But Somebody Somewhere Who Actually Is Scum Might Think That Hehe But Not Me Really For Serious Tho

Ghhhhhhh. I can see nothing scummy in that part.

titus + shaziro need dead.

Fzzzzzzzzzzt.
If they ever happen to flip scum together, I won't post any pigeons for a Day. Promised.

1097 is very, very odd. The reaction to Anen looks a bit out of proportion frankly. Possible reaction to bussing?

WHUT?

@Zakk
Get pff the Titus vanity wagon. We're not lynching that slot today. There are several, other better wagons such as Kop to join.

I'm parrotting that.

Nice little wagon forming on me here.
Whilst yeah I haven't really been playing serious attention to this game, it's quite surprising that the flow has changed quite a lot since turn of the new day. We have gone from a wagon forming on copper, to Titus, then to me. I agree in total with the wagon because my ISO and seths doesn't look good but I can't say anything in regards to the game play that seth dictated whilst he was in the game.

Erm... it's surprising how the flow has changed yet you agree with the wagon. How does that add up?
Also, There was no Copper-wagon. There was a Zakk-wagon and a couple of mini-wagons, eg. on Matt and me.

I still stand by that scum lies in nos or cytheflyguy. So with that said, that's where my vote is staying. It'll be either on one of them. I'm not compromising.

Didn't you have a Shotty and a Zakk scumread? 2452? Your reads don't add up either!

What about Copper & Zakk? You townread them?

See, Kop?
Ircher is getting another Parrot Bebop from me! ^_^

Spoiler:

There it is!

What about Copper & Zakk? You townread them?

I haven't read over there isos properly to get a good read on them. Hence why I haven't voted for then. I'm voting for the people I think are scum.

Huh?

Seth is a troll account. Lightning rod for bullshit but still scumhunting.

Ok.
Kop isn't scumhunting right now though.

And nos isn't chasing his scum reads apart from saying welcome to my scum list. Have you mentioned him yet?

But Ircher was talking to YOU, not to Nosferatu!!!

Up to now. Cytheflyguy got my attention for the manner that he tried to frame and put WIFOM on how Titus remained alive.

Bad reasoning =/= scum reasoning.

Nos I am scum reading because it's all fine and we'll having scum reads, but if you don't chase them, it really isn't a town mindset because as town, you want to find scum. It strikes me that he won't chase these reads because it would prevent him incriminating himself somewhere down the line. Why would you sit on your hands and just throw out the line of welcome to my scum pile but I'm going to do nothing about it.

What a lazy case!
I guess at least three other players have pointed that out earlier. (Including me.)

I think this is the best option right now:
VOTE: Magnaofillusion
Given, the wagons, I am not really sure what to think of them.

Since this vote came from the Neighbourhood, it may change a couple of things. We need details, Liger!

Lets put a stop to this waste of time wagon. I am a 2 shot commuter. I did not commute last night.

Yeah. Sure. This not only explains pre-emptively why you won't get Nightkilled but also informs the SK/Other scumteam/Vig that you're not Nightkill-worthy.
I can't see why I need buy this claim.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kop

jumping ship fuck this

And this was a scummy reaction to that claim. (I'll elaborate it if needed.)

Titus because literally 3 people who she scum read yesterday flipped town. Although there's no concrete reason in her posts that I can recall at the moment, that alone is enough for an inclusion on the list.

Cy!
What if Titus is still alive because of her Day1 reads?

Kop because he's got no legitimate reads. his reasoning that cy is scum is bs and kop has played a game with me before. He knows how I play, his reasons are bs. The rest of his reads are like "yah ill check that out l8r xd". Let's also talk about the fact that he calls zakk shotty's scum buddy in 2452 and then says he hasn't read his iso in 2750 and doesn't have a read on him. Kop is scummy in his own right and on top of that replaced Seth who literally scum claimed. This is a scum slot and should be lynched today.

Okay, I read him in the same way independently (see above).
I doubt that you're scum with Kop and he definitely looks much scummier right now. Including that pigeon poop claim.

I don't think shotty should be lynched, but his play doesn't make him very easy to read, so a vig wouldn't be completely egregious.

Bad logic. Players matching that definition are better targets for Investigations.

[Aneninen]

jumping ship fuck this

And this was a scummy reaction to that claim. (I'll elaborate it if needed.)

That wasn't a reaction to a claim, shotty posted that all over the site anywhere he was fairly active. He was jumping ship from the whole site. Check his Recent Posts.

Indeed. My bad.

[Aneninen]

Thanks for modding and good game everyone!

Zakk, Magma, you've done an awesome job! It's a pity that I got Nightkilled, but after all, it put us into a stronger position. And I had so much fun in the Scum QT. I have no objections against making it public.

[Aneninen]

ftr anen no i don't consider myself a genius at all. you just scumtold really hard imho the way you tried to mudsling me. maybe u woulda done it as town, idk. lord knows i've tunneled plenty of town (hi copper) ^_^

Oh, nothing personal.
I flat out hate it whenever someone starts tunnelling me without giving away any reasons. I hate it regardless of my alignment, and even worse, my reactions mostly depend on the time I have for Mafia and, unfortunately, on my IRL situation(s). This looks definitely scummy. What really makes me nervous is that after I flip scum in a situation like this, the tunneller may think what a genius they are. Yet again, this is not an "I hate it because Nahdia was right about me" thing, it's based upon my IRL experience (and I'm not talking about Mafia games now).
In short, this is a thing in my gameplay I need to improve.

[Aneninen]

The mafia PT was an interesring read, and I think they really worked well together as a team. Sure, there were some mistakes, but none were fatal and lots of discussion was put into decisions.

Actually yes, we had a great team. I don't think I'm a better-than-average player, but I can tell without all of that discussion we'd have gone down for sure. There are quite a lot of players who really should understand how important the Scum QT is. Eg. we even posted our ideas for the others in case of getting Nightkilled, as you can see...

[Aneninen]

That actually makes sense, Nahdia. I've already forgotten that you were IC.
On a second thought, I really shouldn't get annoyed in situations like this. One of my gameplays is "you or me attacking" the first one I find obv-scum. Although I don't know whether it's a good gameplay at all...