Open 563 - Jungle Republic (Night 5~)

[Bins]

Bins... to carry your stuff?
... ?

VOTE: Paschendale

Simplified the spelling and that's just not allowed.

[Bins]

Past your bedtime, tsktsk.

Both of you aren't making sense much sense at all. Sns' vote 'cause selfvote was bad. Reinoe's vote in response to that was bad.
So if it's any consolation to you, I like reinoe's vote less.

The flashwagon point doesn't make sense. If I understand correctly (I'll try and translate what sns was saying)... wagons don't usually work like that from a scum's perspective. For example, if you have two votes on you, and mafia hops onto the wagon, werewolf is going to be more likely to hop onto the people who hopped onto the wagon rather than you (I think this was what Sns was trying to say, but I'm not sure, he didn't really make sense in that post). That might not make sense, I'm tired, forgive me. In any case, no matter how the wagon would have played out, I don't think the flashwagon fear should have actually been mentioned. The five scum aren't going to all opportunistically wagon that.

And the fact he didn't mention town for those sentences means nothing whatsoever. He wasn't talking about town... that's why...

And other than that, he didn't look scummy in the first place for voting you that way.

[Bins]

really fast post cause i'm late

Okay, I was kind of confused. I've also never exactly experienced a flashwagon before, so I was more trying to understand the likeliness.

And I understand the perspective thing now. I don't think it's a strong point, but I get what you're saying and it clicks.


Also. Wait. Hold up. So I understand. Couldn't that also be said about bjc's vote?

[Bins]

Bolded implies you are familiar with him, and so you should know Reinoe does crazy stuff all of the

time

i hate you n_m
scum move
try to trick people into thinking you have actual evidence and then you pull this shit

---

btw both of the votes are still dumb except for not_mafia's at this point.

At first I thought Reinoe was being overzealous in his vote but the more you talk the more I think you were jumping on opportunistically

this is the best point so far because it's true. lucky reineo.

[Bins]

don't tell me what to do, reinoe.

VOTE: sns

really? i was waiting for a better defence than that -- not "go meta me." that makes you look worse.
meh, i probably will but i don't have time right now. so take this vote because i expected more.

[Bins]

Dont tell me what to do followed by doing what he said. Mhm.

it was a joke

ha ha
ha

[Bins]

Her vote for snscompt is incredibly opportunistic.

First she says this;

Both of you aren't making sense much sense at all. Sns' vote 'cause selfvote was bad. Reinoe's vote in response to that was bad.
So if it's any consolation to you, I like reinoe's vote less.

-Somewhat a fence sit
-Calls reinoe's vote for snscompt bad
-Says reinoe's vote is worse than snscompt's vote

At this point, I was "on the fence", because I didn't think either of them were scum, I just thought their votes were bad.

-by this point Not_Mafia had voted snscompt
-Bins now sides with reinoe
-her reasoning in this quote is bad and looks like an attempt at originality (what's wrong with asking to be meta'd?)

She seems to have changed her mind because of post 39. But post 39 shouldn't have caused her to change her mind. One bad post caused a radical change in her reads? Looks opportunistic.

I sided with Not_Mafia. I didn't like Reinoe's reasons at all for the vote. I thought they were weak and didn't make much sense to me, even from the beginning.
Not_Mafia came in with stronger points that I did agree with.
And I really didn't like sns' defense. Asking to be meta'd is bad because he could know he's not acting like he usually does as scum. He could have changed his play style. That's what didn't sit right to me.

[Bins]

^ I also don't like sns' "I know I'm right and you're wrong" tone of voice. It seems fake and like he's only attempting to sound confident.

I guess you could say the same for Reinoe, but that just seems like who he is.

[Bins]

It was still the only "defence" you made or had to say in response to the votes.

[Bins]

It starts in the second post you ever made.

[Bins]

God, it's not the context of what you said. It's the tone. Honestly, most of the stuff you said was fine at first, that's why I didn't like the original vote on you. But I never liked the way you spoke.

I'm going to meta you because I think that's the best idea right now. I was always going to, I'm just going through a hard time with work, so I'll do it when I have time. (which will definitely be by at least tomorrow)

[Bins]

Pedit2: You can read my tone through the internet? Please don't try to do that. I've learned to stop doing that long ago. You read stuff the way you want to read it or how you would say it. And that's fine. I haven't meta'd myself yet. I look forward to it

It's not hard to get tone through writing. I still think your tone is fake and unnecessary. esp. if you're town, because you don't need to play up an act.

I'm not going to unvote you until I see a better vote (the closest thing to that is honestly reinoe). And I see nothing wrong with Pasch, he looks town.

[Bins]

There's no point arguing this anymore because it's pretty off the topic of the game now. Anyways, it's not hard to get tone from any type of writing. It's the way you choose to present an argument. Think of it like how Reinoe said you didn't talk like town content wise. I'm saying you talked less like town, tone wise. And I never claimed it was a good argument, I'm just saying it's something you need to look out for. It might be your problem with getting lynched as town (iirc you said that).

[Bins]

1. How can you have issue with sns' defense if you didn't like the vote he was defending against to begin with?
2. What stronger points did Not_Mafia come in with that you agree with?
3. When did sns ask you to look at his

scum

meta?
4. If he had asked you to look at his town meta, would that have been ok?

1. Not really what I meant. I didn't like the reasons for Reinoe's vote, and I didn't read him scum at that time. It was only until he started defending himself that he felt scummy.
2. ^ Not_Mafia believed this as well.
3. When he originally posted it...

*sigh* If anyone wants to see me as scum, feel free to meta me. I dont know if it will do anything, I dont really pay attention to how I play, but Ive finished two scum games within a week and won them both.

4. Er, that's a lot less likely of a situation but I think it wouldn't have made any difference for my opinion. It's still something he has control over knowing whether or not it will give anything away about his play style.

And I just don't get any scum vibes. It's definitely not a strong town read, 'cause he hasn't really said anything. But the points he's made don't strike me as odd.

[Bins]

I really don't like pointing this out, but it's happened three times the game. I'm a her.

but welcome!

SNS has a very, very weird playstyle. He gives off a naturally scummy vibe, but not the kind that would label him as scum, you know? The kinda vibe

dis what i say.

[Bins]

Bulge is posting actively in other games. He needs to post more here, for sure.

[Bins]

VOTE: bulge

That's not how you should be reacting to ONE vote on you.

[Bins]

Your points against me don't even make sense. At least with Wicked I could see where he was coming from and I could respond with points. But how was "posting with clarity" scummy? And I don't see the problem with my vote on Bulge.

I definitely think Bulge is scum but he can be lynched tomorrow.

VOTE: Pasch

[Bins]

The thing that bothers me most about this game is that eloquent players win. Because I stumbled in my argument, that is somehow a scum-tell, and now Not_Mafia gets off scot-free and I am mislynched.

it wasn't the stumbling
he's not "off scot-free"
you haven't been lynched yet

[Bins]

He has one. He was scum in that one and replaced in on like iirc the last day.

[Bins]

Uhm, also iirc I think he replaced into a spot that had not a single vote on it throughout the entire game. There was no suspicion on the guy he was replacing. He basically just hanged low and waited for a mislynch, and him and his partner quick hammered in LYLO.

[Bins]

So, yeah, **second last day. My bad.

[Bins]

He has one. He was scum in that one and replaced in on like iirc the last day.

Yeah but do you know his alt

Yeeee-aph.

I saw the Face With A Name post.

[Bins]

what the heck are you talking about

[Bins]

You're making banter instead of supporting your votes or trying to convince anyone else. You don't offer reasons or arguments and haven't offered a single useful read. Whatever you're doing, it's not contributing to town's chances to win this game.

I repeat: what the heck are you talking about.

I wasn't going to make a post addressing this because NONE of your arguments made sense, unlike Wickedjrs - which I could actually respond to. But now I think I need to point out how dumb these sound from my perspective. Because now you're insulting my town play. Which is fine, that's your opinion, but everything you said hasn't made sense.

---

First:

You

don't offer reasons or arguments

I'm not going to add all the times that I have been making arguments. Because you even acknowledged my arguments yourself:

She is

attacking SNS with a lot more clarity than Reinoe

Second:

You don't offer reasons or arguments and

haven't offered a single useful read.

Whatever you're doing, it's not contributing to town's chances to win this game.

Again, I think my stance on almost everyone has been clear (except those that haven't been talking). I know you and Bulge are scum. Sns and Reinoe are null, but sns is leaning scum and Reinoe is leaning town. Everyone else is towny (by that I mean bjc, probably wicked, fuzzy, not_mafia).

Third:

Bins vote is opportunistic as well.

I usually don't address opinions on what votes look like but grfaushdxnz.

My vote was the second on a "wagon" where the first vote had been BEFORE Bulge's flailing. I was going to make a post about it after I got home from school, but then you kept going on so I decided to switch to you because it's pointless. I'll make the post tomorrow and you can die today.




I repeat: What the heck are you talking about?

[Bins]

Why do you think he's town?

[Bins]

The speed this wagon is derailing is less comforting then how fastly it grew.

[Bins]

Sns why did you vote bjc then unvote then sheep him?

[Bins]

In answer's to Reinoe's question to me which I just saw now.

Two of the hop-off-the-wagon votes felt like they were motivated by discomfort. As the wagon was called dumb, then bjc (the main voice of the wagon) unvoted, the votes just came off without reason. Except for Not_Maf. The unvotes seemed more sheeping then the votes onto the wagon. If that makes sense.

Honestly, that makes me feel worse about the two votes that didn't say shit and just peaced the fuck out of there. Maru and sns. Not to mention sns then did the entire vote bjc, unvote, sheep thing. SO idk.

[Bins]

I understand that fully. I still don't like the unvotes though.

[Bins]

I'm just going to post saying that I've fallen a little behind so I'm going to refresh my memory a bunch after my exam tomorrow. After that, I'm free! So I'll be active and stuff.

[Bins]

My reads really have not changed. I'm down for Wicked's suggestion and will switch to Shaded only if we're going to hit deadline.

[Bins]

I'll be online until the lynch.

I'll switch my vote if I have to, chances are more than one of {Titus, Splash, Pasch, Bulge} are scum so I'll definitely try my hardest to prevent the no lynch.

I strongly prefer Pasch. Titus and Splash are probably a tie for second. Then Bulge because I don't think the lynch on him is happening.

[Bins]

Welp. This sucks. To address your question, Titus, I don't really scumread Splash or you at all. Your slot definitely more than Splash's, but I wish I could have given you a chance to actually play the game.

If you're online, any chance you're going to claim Seer? Because I have pretty big intent to hammer.

I might not wake up in time to deliver it. So, I'll do so tonight before I sleep. Which could be very soon.

[Bins]

okay.

VOTE: Titus

[Bins]

I was slighty leaning scum on Shaded, but when Titus replaced I actually felt like the slot was okay. It was very bad timing, but in any case, I hate lynching people who just replaced into the game.

[Bins]

I think I owe this a reread as well.

[Bins]

Actually, reinoe had pretty solid scum reads on you, Wicked.

I don't know, if I were WW, I probably would have killed you. Reinoe probably a close second, but you first.

[Bins]

Yeah.
VOTE: Fuzzybutternut
I find that more often than not, that those who try to generate discussion by discussing the NK are scum.
I have to reread.

This is illogical.

1. I'd rather we discuss this NK.
2. This game desperately needs discussion.
3. NK analysis is extremely important.

[Bins]

In light of the lynch flip yesterday, Fuzzy is probably the most suspicious in my mind anyways.

[Bins]

Whoa, if you don't want to discuss the night kill, that's fine by me. I was just saying that Fuzzy's post doesn't look that bad because he wanted to discuss the NK. It was a pretty awkward entry post, I'll admit. But I've seen town want to immediately discuss NK right away as well. So I was more against the reasoning for your vote.

[Bins]

That's what I was thinking. How do you separate mafia from WW? The Titus lynch and a NK analysis. I didn't mean to bring out SNS' bad side.

[Bins]

It's in the post right above yours. Unsight did one.

[Bins]

I don't see how you can say someone has good reads if the people (minue the one) haven't flipped yet...

[Bins]

More Bulge votes plz

@Desp - You acknowledge your vote as naked, but make no effort to "dress" it and instead just use it as a shot against N_M. Care to enlighten us? And does the vote have anything to do with N_M (ie associative tells)?

This is a serious question. I'm genuinely curious about that last part in particular.

Woof woof.

I wanted to vote Fuzzy, but I agree wholehearting with Wicked that WWs are what we need to catch right now.

I'm going to do my reread tonight, and probably order who's most likely to be a WW. I'm leaning Bulge and Unsight for now.

[Bins]

^I feel like you just threw up WIFOM in a bucket and tossed it everywhere.

Really?

I also thought the "Read: I'm a VT, not a Seer" came across as very genuine.

[Bins]

I think Fuzzy is mafia but would rather lynch a WW at this moment.

[Bins]

I'm still leaning Bulge, but I'm trying to see who his partner would be.

Unsight, you asked this before. Who do you think Bulge's partner is?

[Bins]

this wagon is giving me the creeps

[Bins]

like i think bulge is a ww, i always have, but i didn't think this wagon would go down with no resistance.

[Bins]

That read is kind of odd, Pasch. Unsight looks way more WW than mafia.

Because there was no good reasoning behind the votes. It was like "oh? Bulge wagon? Seems good to me." Like Bulge said, everyone is already assuming he's WW. I think the main reason I'd want his lynch now is for his flip and that's not a strong enough reason for me.

[Bins]

I know I was on the Bulge wagon, but that response looks pretty genuine. And I know Desp didn't believe it, maybe I'm gullible or something, but it looked good to me.

[Bins]

Oops, I should have directed comments. Hopefully you all figure it out.

[Bins]

Splash, what do you think about all this? Who do you think is WW?

[Bins]

I'm in awe.

[Bins]

Because, contrary to what others are saying, I thought it was very well written.

I still think TheBulge is the better lynch choice. Here's what will happen:-
-If TheBulge flips WW, Wicked would likely be WW. Unsight could also

potentially

be WW too
-If TheBulge flips town, Wicked would likely be town.
-If TheBulge flips mafia, we wouldn't get any other information (unlikely).

My reasons for him are in #599. I'm sure he'd flip WW and I think it's the safer choice in general. There are 3 WWs and we could get two of them from that.

Eh? Three werewolves?

Also, why has no one else pointed out this error? Are y'all reading?

I find this post really fricken odd.

1. Why would Bulge flipping WW likely mean Wicked is WW? Do you really think Wicked would protect his partner that much?
2. Why is Wicked almost cleared with a Bulge town flip? I think it could easily swing either way.
3. Why does a mafia flip give us NO info? That's just an odd statement to make.

[Bins]

Why do you think Wicked is town if Bulge is town? I think he's scum regardless of the flip, Bulge's town flip just means I won't be sure as to which faction he is

Since when have you scumread Wicked? Did I miss it? Oops.

[Bins]

I'd like to note that I'll be less active due to personal IRL stuff that I've been dealing with these past few days. I'll attempt to poke my head in ever so often, but no garuntees. I might have periods were I can post a lot even, so I'm just letting y'all know just in case.

I don't think it's enough for me to replace out tho, but I might have to if it gets too bad.

[Bins]

@3 WWs that was a mistake. I know there's 3 mafia but I saod 3 WWs there for some reasom. I blame tiredness

Wait. So what did you actually mean?

[Bins]

But... what if Bulge isn't a WW? I agree with Bulge on this, everyone keeps assuming he's destined to flip WW and the more people keep talking like that, the less certain I am.

And, uhm, no. I actually thought it was very well written. Must I mention that in comparison no one has made a case like this on Bulge?

[Bins]

Bah, reading that over, maybe I want the flip for WIFOM reasons. :<

[Bins]

@3 WWs that was a mistake. I know there's 3 mafia but I saod 3 WWs there for some reasom. I blame tiredness

Oh and answer my other posts or at least address that you will get to them >.>

[Bins]

Yeah fuck it, I'm not placing my vote where I would be extremely uncomfortable AGAIN. This wagon is terrible.

Even though you said Bulge was the BEST candidate, I think we have better. I mean, hell, has Despardo done anything this game to convince you that he's town? And you're calling starting another wagon "anti-town" but that's just bull rn. Not trying to lynch werewolves to our best ability is anti-town and that's what everyone here is doing.

We can't just assume the WWs are going to kill mafia (probably kill Fuzzy). I want a good fucking lynch, not one for WIFOM. You look bad from my POV trying to rush this shit wagon.

Lynch Bulge, but I want no part of the lynch. Just know that I'll be looking at you and Desp if he flips town.

VOTE: Desp

Sorry, Wicked, even though your post was good, I don't think Unsight is my biggest suspicion.

[Bins]

I'm saying it's a shit lynch because there's no good argument for it that I can see and everyone's still acting like Bulge is conf scum. Lynch Bulge, NM, go ahead, I'm not attempting to defend against the wagon, I just don't want to be a part of it.

And I don't see Desp scum for reasons that he voted Splash vs Shaded. I don't think he'd just not bus his partner in that situation.

[Bins]

Because, contrary to what others are saying, I thought it was very well written.

I still think TheBulge is the better lynch choice. Here's what will happen:-
-If TheBulge flips WW, Wicked would likely be WW. Unsight could also

potentially

be WW too
-If TheBulge flips town, Wicked would likely be town.
-If TheBulge flips mafia, we wouldn't get any other information (unlikely).

My reasons for him are in #599. I'm sure he'd flip WW and I think it's the safer choice in general. There are 3 WWs and we could get two of them from that.

Eh? Three werewolves?

Also, why has no one else pointed out this error? Are y'all reading?

I find this post really fricken odd.

1. Why would Bulge flipping WW likely mean Wicked is WW? Do you really think Wicked would protect his partner that much?
2. Why is Wicked almost cleared with a Bulge town flip? I think it could easily swing either way.
3. Why does a mafia flip give us NO info? That's just an odd statement to make.

[Bins]

When did I say anything about inactivity?

[Bins]

Do you see anything town in his ISO?

[Bins]

Are we seriously at 2 days?

Fakc.

Wicked, will you vote Bulge over a No Lynch?

[Bins]

No one else seems happy with it. Everyone wants your head. Etc, etc.

[Bins]

Honestly, if you end up being lynched and flip town, there's a lot of heads I'm going to want. Starting with getting actual content from Desp.

[Bins]

When did I say I was going to sheep him? I was asking Wicked if he would.

[Bins]

I mean, imo your lynch would be way better than a no lynch. I wouldn't question switching to it.

I'd rather someone else, you're right, but I mean, info is info and I don't want this to repeat the next day.

[Bins]

That reminds me. Where the heck is Splash?

[Bins]

Welp, she doesn't appear to have been active on the site since her last post. Isn't she due for like a replacement or something?

[Bins]

Desp, if Bulge flips town, what will you think?

[Bins]

o

[Bins]

WHAT

[Bins]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Bins]

if he's scum

why would wicked counterclaim if it outs his entire team

[Bins]

VOTE: desperado

[Bins]

not_mafia, how did wicked out himself as the seer or how did you figure out who was the seer yesterday?

[Bins]

here's how it looks now if wicked is seer

fuzzy is like conf mafia in my mind now
wicked is the seer
splash is town/mafia
not_mafia is not cleared on anything
riddleton is probably town or mafia
pasch isn not cleared on anything

there's 3 scum left

fuzzy, not_mafia, splash, pasch, and riddleton

mafia {fuzzy + one of the above, will look at interactions}
ww {leaning not_mafia or splash}

[Bins]

i'm pretty sure you're trolling now that everyone thinks that

[Bins]

i'm pretty sure you're trolling now that everyone thinks that

First rule of mafia is to never openly admit every read you have, unless you're about to be lynched.

you don't have a nk
i'm really not afraid

[Bins]

lolwut

VOTE: Desperado

I hated Wicked's push yesterday, and those are a pair of really poor investigative choices, bur I don't see why scum would CC that way

they aren't actually that poor

imo i think desp's are worse

[Bins]

How so Bins?

not much other than riddleton fkd up how many wws were in the game

[Bins]

This is probably my last day so I'd like to make the most of it.

:'(

[Bins]

How so Bins?

not much other than riddleton fkd up how many wws were in the game

A dumbtell? Seriously?

you're a dumbtell

[Bins]

now let's not get immature

[Bins]

It's kind of funny tho how Unsight died - and wasn't townread, and was definitely WW read - and N_M suspected she was the Seer.

[Bins]

Man let me work this out in my head
It's currently 1v2v3

A) Lynch ww, we're in 5p lylo (2v3)
B) Lynch scum, we lose either a strong town/whoever ww thinks is the last mafia
(1v1v2) - lynch mafia, and ww wins during the night, lynch WW, and 3p lylo
(1v3) - mylo, best to no lynch idk, then 3p lylo

Or if we mislynch, ww will take out mafia
(1v1v2)
Or not and mafia will win
(1v2v1)

I have no idea but in my head trying to take out the WW makes more sense
Will do a reread of last two days

[Bins]

But actually, if I understand correctly, WW can now only win if it's (1v1) v a town

WW will probably always try to kill mafia, so those scenarios where mafia is still alive is where ww failed killing the last scum
Idk I'd rather have this in towns hands, rather than the WW, ofc


Man I don't even know if I'm making sense

[Bins]

What about Not_Mafia?

After a reread, I honestly think Not_Mafia is WW. Actually, I'm pretty convinced, but I won't push him yet because of his personal V/LA. It's mostly PoE + he used the "I'm not that stupid as scum" logic + his position on the Bulge wagon + his early game play + the whole Wicked interaction. I don't know why Wicked just shrugged it off. I never suspected it before, but since Desp flipped WW, I'm seeing it now.

I think Splash/Klick is town because of Desp's investigate claim on him and Titus/him interaction.

I'll explore who I think is the mafia team.

I get bad vibes from Riddleton, but that's all. He may be mafia, I SERIOUSLY doubt WW.

I'm was reading Fuzzy for his relationship with Titus and his hammer later on. I thought he was playing trolly because he knew town didn't want to lynch him, so I thought he had accepted the conf scum label. But his reaction to my read on him definitely wasn't one I was expecting. I'm less confident with the read then I was before, which is why I'm thinking lynch Not_Mafia.

You say you don't know where to place me, Pasch, I don't know where to place you.

[Bins]

We're in MyLo so we need to kill a mafioso today.

VOTE: Fuzzy

Also, if Fuzzy isn't actually Mafia, I would look at this.

[Bins]

He shares his thoughts, and even his reads that have been proven wrong look genuine and well formed. But then again, a lot of them ARE wrong. Town often mislynch. I don't see why scum hunting werewolves or werewolves hunting scum would be any different. There is almost a balanced tone about Fuzzy, like he's trying intentionally to be as moderate as possible. He didn't come down hard on the Desperado/Wicked issue, and so could be protecting Desperado. It's not a great case, but it's possible.

Fuzzy could be a ww.

Nope.

[Bins]

Just because I'm not in the mood for being cheeky:

Vote: Desperado

I'm the seer, you are not.

-fuzzy is not a werewolf.
-Unsight is not a werewolf.

[Bins]

I'd just rather not have a kill I can't control.

[Bins]

I thought you said Fuzzy was certainly mafia?

[Bins]

Yeah, so lynching WW would realistically be best, but it all depends on how confident we are.

[Bins]

See, you're talking like I think Fuzzy is confscum. I'm not as certian as you.

[Bins]

But it works even if Fuzzy isn't scum, Bins.

What do you mean

it works

?

[Bins]

I'll build a case on my Not_Mafia WW read.

[Bins]

Alright, brace yourselves.

This is going to be PoE then backed up by things that will make sense and blow all of your minds.

Spoiler: Why Y'all are not Howling at the Moon

Fuzzybutternut

- Because our lovely Seer said so.

Riddleton

- Because Desperado claimed the fake Seer guilty on him. And while I understand that that might be the best gambit ever, I don't think it's a gambit that Desperado would have taken.

Klick

- Desperado ALSO fakeclaimed an innocent on Klick - that again, already makes me less likely to believe that Klick is the werewolf.

Here's where it starts to get interesting. Thinking about why Desperado claimed, it makes it almost impossible in my mind that Riddleton and Klick are the last WW. Desperado probably fakeclaimed thinking he was TOAST because of either a) the wagon yesteryday b) the fact they didn't kill the seer. He need to claim first and he needed to claim strong, hopefully managing to pull the kill of Riddleton before he died to make things better for WWs.

But for Desperado to y'know, sacrafice his entire wolfy life, he needed to have a partner that was in a good position.

Paschendale or Not_Mafia. And Not_Mafia was definitely in the better position of the two.

Paschendale

- I'm townreading Paschendale now. Not mafia and not werewolf. This is not based on any interaction (maybe the giant flashwagon on him), but many how he's reacting to things now. I don't think Paschendale is the last werewolf, I really don't. I think he'd be more observant of the seer claims and trying to push a WW lynch on someone else.

Something that Not_Mafia is currently attempting to do.

Not_Mafia

- This may sound silly, but I really do believe that Not_Mafia would have been the only person to want to kill Unsight. Heck, Unsight was being WW read by Wicked and being read as the partner to Bulge. Not_Mafia stated he had figured out who the seer was, and Unsight definitely was a seer kill. For him to come in the next day and say, "Yeah, I thought it was Unsight" is basic addition. You can also tell with Desperado's "I thought it was Bins" that there was conflict between the two WWs as well. Not_Mafia is the ONLY person who would have killed Unsight. And no, I don't think this is framing.

Also Desp and NM probably had it planned that if there was a CC that caught them, N_M needed to bus immediately.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Bins]

He was the counter wagon day 2.

[Bins]

I think he wanted to claim because he knew the Seer claim was probably coming.

[Bins]

That's why I presented other reasons why Klick and Riddleton aren't WW other than Desp's fakeclaim.

[Bins]

(because he's a WW)

[Bins]

OOPS HI.

I still want Not_Mafia lynched but Riddleton's posted are weirding me out.

[Bins]

I agree at this point. I'll figure out who I think is the leftover scum based on Not_Mafia's flip.

[Bins]

*pokes Klick*

[Bins]

hmmm quick mobile reads

NM WW
Pasch prob town
Riddleton mafia
Klick/Fuzzy last mafia, probably fuzzy but I need way more from klick

I will look deeper and sort this better when in LYLO.

[Bins]

The riddler

Wrong! We're lynching you.

Yes, and let's not no lynch.

Klick is probably due for a replacement.

[Bins]

Fuzzy, tell me what you need me to do to convince you Not_Mafia is most likely the woof woof.

[Bins]

Great.

[Bins]

I hate using this as a quick defence, especially since you haven't said anything yet. But this was the second game I actually joined on this site. I have now played 8 games in between. My reluctancy to vote, how easily I was pressured to sheep, etc were due to how new I was w/ the game. I was a pretty scared townie.

[Bins]

If we don't lynch WW, a nightkill might end the game.

[Bins]

Aegor, I don't think Not_Mafia is town at all. Do you?

[Bins]

Riddleton's V/LA ends tomorrow...

[Bins]

Btw, if we lynch mafia, the chance we lose the most useful/towniest town goes up. Especially with NM being in the situation he's in.


Can we please just get rid of the damn night kill?

[Bins]

Alright, brace yourselves.

This is going to be PoE then backed up by things that will make sense and blow all of your minds.

Spoiler: Why Y'all are not Howling at the Moon

Fuzzybutternut

- Because our lovely Seer said so.

Riddleton

- Because Desperado claimed the fake Seer guilty on him. And while I understand that that might be the best gambit ever, I don't think it's a gambit that Desperado would have taken.

Klick

- Desperado ALSO fakeclaimed an innocent on Klick - that again, already makes me less likely to believe that Klick is the werewolf.

Here's where it starts to get interesting. Thinking about why Desperado claimed, it makes it almost impossible in my mind that Riddleton and Klick are the last WW. Desperado probably fakeclaimed thinking he was TOAST because of either a) the wagon yesteryday b) the fact they didn't kill the seer. He need to claim first and he needed to claim strong, hopefully managing to pull the kill of Riddleton before he died to make things better for WWs.

But for Desperado to y'know, sacrafice his entire wolfy life, he needed to have a partner that was in a good position.

Paschendale or Not_Mafia. And Not_Mafia was definitely in the better position of the two.

Paschendale

- I'm townreading Paschendale now. Not mafia and not werewolf. This is not based on any interaction (maybe the giant flashwagon on him), but many how he's reacting to things now. I don't think Paschendale is the last werewolf, I really don't. I think he'd be more observant of the seer claims and trying to push a WW lynch on someone else.

Something that Not_Mafia is currently attempting to do.

Not_Mafia

- This may sound silly, but I really do believe that Not_Mafia would have been the only person to want to kill Unsight. Heck, Unsight was being WW read by Wicked and being read as the partner to Bulge. Not_Mafia stated he had figured out who the seer was, and Unsight definitely was a seer kill. For him to come in the next day and say, "Yeah, I thought it was Unsight" is basic addition. You can also tell with Desperado's "I thought it was Bins" that there was conflict between the two WWs as well. Not_Mafia is the ONLY person who would have killed Unsight. And no, I don't think this is framing.

Also Desp and NM probably had it planned that if there was a CC that caught them, N_M needed to bus immediately.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Bins]

Pasch also mentioned ISO-ing Not_Mafia brought him to scumread him.

[Bins]

And no one is an MVP here, so I am unconcerned with the NK.

I am. Because chances are WW, if we lynch Maf, will not kill the next most suspicious person because they have to fight in LYLO.

[Bins]

And the fact I don't see how anyone else can be the damn WW.

[Bins]

I don't know what's flawed about it.

[Bins]

Who do you think Fuzzy's partner is?

[Bins]

1) Unsight had lots of suspicion on her.
2) Despardo's last comment.

[Bins]

I'm going to a party tonight (my cousin is turning 22, I'll probs be drunk), so I won't really be around much.

Seriously, be smart about this. I don't give two shits if you think I'm scum or not. I'm

guaranteed

not Werewolf, meaning SOMEONE out there can still kill something. If we lynch WW today, you can lynch me tomorrow for all I care, but I'm not the correct lynch today.

Riddleton is not a werewolf.

I'm almost certain him fucking up the number of WWs in this game was genuine.

[Bins]

Who do you think Fuzzy's partner is?

[Bins]

Hehe, he was mafia in the last Jungle Rep. if I remember correctly.

[Bins]

Oh, but never lynched.

[Bins]

Link me too!

[Bins]

Maybe it's my first game, NM~

[Bins]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
Not_Werewolf? Didn't think so.

[Bins]

yes

no

eh

[Bins]

i'm going to look at this tomorrow, because it's late and my mind can't deal with lylo rn

[Bins]

Where are the reasons? :/

how are you guys so ready to lynch

[Bins]

Where are the reasons? :/

how are you guys so ready to lynch

I find you and Fuzzy towny. I don't find Aegor and Riddleton towny.

Not really you I'm concerned about.

[Bins]

It's hard to imagine Fuzzy in a team with anyone except for Paschendale. I guess I could see the Riddleton bus, but there's no chance in my mind of a Fuzzy/Aegor scumteam.

[Bins]

As for other team possibilities, I will look at Aegor/Riddleton. For now, Aegor, can you give me your read on Riddleton? I don't think you've even mentioned him.

[Bins]

How did you find Riddle's ISO?

[Bins]

That aside, this setup is asymmetrical, which means priorities are different. Mafia do not get a NK and have only three members; they consequently, especially near the endgame, are more compelled to eliminate the other anti-town faction. One mafioso is a greater loss to the mafia than one townie is to the town.

This, however, very much depends on the situation the Mafia are in. I was thinking about this as well, and there are scenarios in which Mafia would want the WW killed and would not want the WW killed. The Mafia could have been wolfreading NM the whole time and never strongly pushed it.

My point is, if Mafia believed Not_Mafia was WW, and they weren't Riddleton or Fuzzy, they'd actually want him to be left alive for one more day.

Does that make sense?

[Bins]

my case against fuzzy has already been made.

Again, I don't see a case. Am I skimming over it?

[Bins]

cghjkl.

It's interesting how Pasch thought he was uncontested town then. But like, if I had to go with gut right now - which is awful because it's lylo, I'd have smacked a vote down on Riddleton already.

[Bins]

So what would my hypothetical motivation be as scum to vote NM, given that after his unsatisfactory responses to my questions, I thought he could well be a WW?

You weren't at risk of getting NK'd by NM, neither was Riddleton. He probably would have gone with Fuzzy, but I can't say that for sure. Which is why it makes sense that you would be okay with lynching someone who definitely not a WW.

[Bins]

Having a NK is a lot better for Mafia, but like yeah ofc they can't control it. If we correctly lynch today, we probably have it in the bag.

[Bins]

Honestly, the suggestion that he wanted to vote last seemed very town, actually. I don't think scum would have suggested that.

[Bins]

Fuzzy agreeing to it irked me slightly. If he's scum, it makes me feel as if I'm (and Pasch is) totally wrong about what I'm thinking.

[Bins]

Honestly, the suggestion that he wanted to vote last seemed very town, actually. I don't think scum would have suggested that.

Why not? Surely after your analysis of scum motivation vis-a-vis the WW lynch yesterday, you can grasp the reason that a scum may want to guarantee himself a quickhammer position?



Anyway, my earlier setup analysis is wrong, I have just realized. If we lynch correctly today, tomorrow is not lylo. Which is weird in that the game proceeds from lylo to not lylo. Anywho...

Yes, but he suggested it. That doesn't seem like something scum would just say.

And yeah, to the last part, is why Mafia would have wanted to keep WW around for as long as possible.

[Bins]

Definitely. I'm arguing this from the point of view that you're being decently townread and wouldn't have been the NK, as I stated when you firsted asked me.

[Bins]

riddle hasn't posted in 4 days

i need to seriously get to thinking but i've been busy w/ school lately

[Bins]

i need to make up my minds because i feel like trusting all your reads and then that means that all of you are scum. and aegor it feels like you're trying to make me paranoid about the one solid townread i was convinced on.

[Bins]

if that's all youre ok with and youre not going to say anything else well

[Bins]

you finally say something when people comment on you being gone..

[Bins]

I'm not throwing down votes in LYLO. Too risky.

Yet you say you're certian that it's Aegor and Riddleton?

[Bins]

Phone posting

Sorry I've been sick the past few days :<

Riddleton:

If you're town, you seriously need to stop talking as if every post has a malicious intent behind it like you're trying to shape your appearance. If you're scum, continue, because it's helping me read you
It feels like you're playing too scummy to be scum up too much and I have no idea how the fuck to read it so stop thanks be more genuine

[Bins]

Ok I have a longer post typed up saved as draft which I'll review in the morning because ew mobile

[Bins]

Alright, so basically what I had written out but better worded:

Seriously thinking Riddle before Aegor. It doesn't really matter, but I definitely have more of a townread on Aegor than I do on Riddleton right at this moment.

Right now, the possible scumteams are as followed (including not possible ones and why):

Riddle/Aegor - Basically standard PoE because I don't have a scumread on Pasch and I doubt Riddle/Fuzzy. Like seriously. If there's one thing that I'm confident in right now, it's my townread of Paschendale, and I feel like you guys are really trying to shut that down. Either I'm being blind and you are completely frustrated with me, or my read speaks true.

Riddle/Fuzzy - If Riddle wanted to play this for the long run, this is the best play possible. I forgot how freaking much scum need to play it for the long run because they aren't entering LYLO again, they're just entering 3-1. Riddle would enter bussing Fuzzy hard, by voting him, knowing that there can't possibly be a quick hammer. I wanted to wait this out, because it seems like they're turning on Pasch. Which is odd. I doubt this option, but hey, it would be cool.

Riddle/Pasch - If my Pasch read is wrong, this is the best possibility. This would explain why Pasch did not want to vote Riddle. And... maybe Riddle, with his master plan, was trying to show that since there was no quickhammer, Fuzzy was scum. I really doubt this. So it's unlikely they're the scumteam.

Aegor/Pasch - Would seriously blow my mind to think these guys are scum together. Their interactions do not speak that way at all.

Fuzzy/Aegor - I don't think the bussing would have been this extreme.
Fuzzy/Pasch - 1) Townread on Pasch, 2) I don't think Pasch would outright call his partner out as town in the situations he did if he was his partner. This again is another reason why I feel Pasch is really town, because he's stepping into places scum wouldn't.

TL'DR - I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND PASCH/FUZZY BECAUSE I'M TOWNREADING PASCH AND THEN I DON'T THINK SCUM PASCH WOULD CALL SCUM FUZZY TOWN LIKE THAT THE DAY BEFORE BECAUSE OF HOW SCREWED OF A SITUATION HE WOULD BE IN LYLO IF FUZZY WERE TO GET LYNCHED AND DIE.

Does that make sense?

[Bins]

Like, seriously, that's what it's riding on for me.

PASCH FREAKING CALLED FUZZY TOWN YESTERDAY, KNOWING WE WERE PROBABLY LYNCHING WW. Meaning LYLO the next day, where Fuzzy was in a TERRIBAD position. And if Fuzzy had gotten lynched (and he flipped scum), he would be screwed.

I'm just peeved because it seems like Riddle and Aegor aren't even addressing each other now.

[Bins]

I just can't fathom scum just asking for permission to quickhammer.

[Bins]

also if you want to townread pasch and are more confident with fuzzy,why not vote him then?

Because I don't trust you and Aegor?!

[Bins]

Why do you think I'm scum again, anyway? I forgot. Unless they're similar reasons to Fuzzy's 'case', I don't think I remember you actually posting a case against me. Either way, I'd appreciate it as it's be insightful to know why there's a barrier of trust. Obviously a bad thing, especially in LyLo, and ghves the scum (fuzzy and pasch) an excuse to coast through the game.

It's a mixture of PoE, partners (which I just posted), and your general attitude this entire game.

[Bins]

also if you want to townread pasch and are more confident with fuzzy,why not vote him then?

Because I don't trust you and Aegor?!

Voting someone shouldn't be about your associative trust withn someone else who's also voting -- it should be done through your own deduction, reasoning and logic that the person is scum.

I meant I don't trust you guys as in I don't trust there not to be a quickhammer.




(sorry, I'm going to be spamming this page with replies.)

[Bins]

@Bins: I feel entirely comfortable voting for a Riddleton/Aegor scumteam. You've read my reasons. Do you want to discuss anything? Are you ready to vote? Which one do you feel more strongly about?

I really doubt an Aegor quick hammer because 1) he's either Riddle's partner or 2) he's town (I mean, if Aegor was your partner there would have been a quickhammer by now). That being said, it's probably the vote I'm most comfortable with at this moment (and it's not even mine x-x). Since I feel like I'm dealing with two bickering blocks insistent that each other are scum, it's probably our best move.

And no, I'm not ready to vote. I definitely feel more strongly about Riddle scum than Aegor.

[Bins]

i was saying that i'm not comfortable voting before you, mainly because i'm more comfortable with you voting aegor because i'm pretty certian there will be no quickhammer due to how i'm reading aegor and his possible partner if scum.

[Bins]

Riddleton first.

[Bins]

/confirm innocence

[Bins]

loljk

VOTE: Riddleton

[Bins]

Thank god.

Fuzzy, we did it, even with all our - mostly my, oops - lamenting in the QT about how screwed we were. I'm really, really glad we were a team together. It was a lot of fun.

I think everyone else played really well. This was my first scumgame that I started on the site, and when Wicked caught me day 1, I thought I was done for. I really don't like playing as scum. And even though I'm very glad that we won in the end, I feel really bad. Like idk I hate that feeling of building up false trust and then tearing apart dreams and kicking puppies and stuff.

I didn't expect to enter LYLO and have two people be convinced the scumteam was someone else and my partner, then another person be convinced it was those too people. I didn't know how to react to that at all. Every single time I asked 'how the heck are you guys so certian', I wasn't lying.

Thanks Mist! It was very well hosted.

[Bins]

Moral of the story: Kill Bins

WOOF WOOF

[Bins]

Thank you!