Open 563 - Jungle Republic (Night 5~)

[reinoe]

Shaded is the person I'm most comfortable lynching today besides Sns.

VOTE: shaded melee

[bjc]

SNS is town. Maru is useless. Pasch can wait. Let's lynch Shaded tomorrow, Pasch the next day, ez pz lemon sqz

But is Mary scum?

[snscompt1]

Letting it slide would be a huge mistake. Pasch was in a The Network with me recently and a player quickhammered and we eventually let it slide. Scum take risks because they know they could get away with it if they do it right.

[fuzzybutternut]

SNS is town. Maru is useless. Pasch can wait. Let's lynch Shaded tomorrow, Pasch the next day, ez pz lemon sqz

But is Mary scum?

Would I be voting him if he wasn't?

[Wickedestjr]

It's a lot more complicated than that. It's about balancing which reasons I think are more compelling and which possible reasons why I could be wrong are more compelling. Mathematically, I am more sure of Bins, because BinsSuspicions - BinsApprehension > BjcSuspicions - BjcApprehension, but BjcSuspicions > BinsSuspicions, so I am more suspicious of Bjc. It's not opportunism, it's just complex. Also, how exactly is it opportunistic to suspect one of these two when no one else was seriously pursuing either of them?

This still kinda sounds like BS. If Bjc apprehension was so significant, then why would you call him definite scum in the first place? When you stated your read you should have taken both Suspicions and Apprehension into account. And it's possible opportunism because I was seriously pursuing Bins. Did you miss that?

At the time of your vote for bjc, you hadn't done anything more/different. I think it is suspicious that you would vote for bjc for doing something that you have also done. What is wrong with bjc's reasonless votes?

Please show me where i voted without a reason besides that bjc-reaction vote. Even my RVS vote has a reason.

Also do you think it is ok to vote people without giving reasons?

I never said you voted without a reason on another occasion. The point is you did it once. If you would do it, I can't understand your concern with someone else doing it. What exactly did you find suspicious about bjc's reasonless voting?

It's ok to vote people without giving reasons immediately. Note that I'm not questioning bjc for his reasonless voting and I'm only questioning yours because I see hypocrisy.

[Wickedestjr]

1.) I think Bulge is a werewolf. It's a 50-50 gut read, meaning that half of the vote is because of gut and half is because I find his play scummy and indicative of a werewolf.

2.) Since when can scum not make good points? I don't care if your point is the best point that was ever made in the history of mafia, if you're scum, and I'm town, I'm going to lynch your ass. I didn't ignore anyone's votes. I knew very well who was voting for whom, but I wholeheartedly believe Bulge is scum and therefore will do my best to get him lynched.

3.) See 1. I will never push someones lynch solely for doing shit-all. That's a policy lynch. I despise policy lynches. Stating what I stated in said quote was more IC and less fuzzy. Despite this not being a newbie game, there are things people still think are scummy when, in reality, they aren't. I feel obligated to point things like that out in hopes to help their future gameplay.

1.) Ok well I still think your non-gut reasons for suspecting him are weak. What makes you think he's a werewolf in particular?

2.) Sure, scum can make good points. Please note that I'm not arguing that Bulge is town - I don't have a good read on Bulge right now. I'm trying to understand your thought process, not change it. Did you think that any of the other Paschendale votes were suspicious?

3.) I was just about to accept this response, then went to the next page and saw you vote Maruchan. That looks like a vote for somebody that's being useless. That looks contradictory. And did you not notice Maruchan's lack of contribution until sns pointed it out? I thought it was pretty blatant.

4.) Don't want to lynch Bulge any more?

[fuzzybutternut]

1.) His lack of actual content makes it seem like he's just trying to pass the day through to get through and get his NK done so he can line something up for the days after.

2.) At the time, I didn't think anything of the pasch votes. I'll go back and re-read to see if I find anything out of the ordinary.

3.) I explained the reason I'm voting in one of my latest posts.

4.) Yes and no. I would rather lynch Maru over Bulge right now, as Sns made some good points that changed my mind on the subject. I still want Bulge lynched, and my thoughts may change based on Maru's flip, but I honestly think he's scummier than Bulge right now.

On another note, is Shaded flailing or is it just me?

[reinoe]

On another note, is Shaded flailing or is it just me?

Please show me where i voted without a reason besides that bjc-reaction vote. Even my RVS vote has a reason.

Also do you think it is ok to vote people without giving reasons?

This suggests that he never had a good reason for his votes to begin with.

[Paschendale]

This still kinda sounds like BS. If Bjc apprehension was so significant, then why would you call him definite scum in the first place? When you stated your read you should have taken both Suspicions and Apprehension into account. And it's possible opportunism because I was seriously pursuing Bins. Did you miss that?

Because definite scum was the first reaction, and then I considered it further. You know, evolve reads based on more information. And I wouldn't call asking a few questions "serious pursuit", espeically since nothing ever came of them.

[fuzzybutternut]

On another note, is Shaded flailing or is it just me?

Please show me where i voted without a reason besides that bjc-reaction vote. Even my RVS vote has a reason.

Also do you think it is ok to vote people without giving reasons?

This suggests that he never had a good reason for his votes to begin with.

I'm sorry?

This confuses me a bit.

[reinoe]

On another note, is Shaded flailing or is it just me?

Please show me where i voted without a reason besides that bjc-reaction vote. Even my RVS vote has a reason.

Also do you think it is ok to vote people without giving reasons?

This suggests that he never had a good reason for his votes to begin with.

I'm sorry?

This confuses me a bit.

Shaded says he doesn't like Pasch' 41 and 53.

Post 41. Many people are initially confused or inquire about bjc's playstyle. So the idea that Pasch commented on it isn't really that strange.

Post 53. Several people were confused or thought the trap I set didn't really exist. Pasch commented on it.

Shaded Melee says he doesn't like those two posts but really they're not that out of the ordinary. He never had a good reason for his bjc vote. He never had a good reason for his Paschendale vote.

[fuzzybutternut]

Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

[Maruchan]

Mod didn't post it in thread, because I PM'd it to her, but she acknowledged the PM request.

strange.


I requested replacement about 24 hours ago, so you gusy can wait for a player to utilize my slot before lynching it now.

[snscompt1]

Cool. Much appreciated.

[Mist7676]

Mod didn't post it in thread, because I PM'd it to her, but she acknowledged the PM request.

strange.


I requested replacement about 24 hours ago, so you gusy can wait for a player to utilize my slot before lynching it now.

I had sent a PM to who expressed interest in replacing before, but forgot to say anything here, sorry!

[ShadedMelee]

Shaded Melee says he doesn't like those two posts but really they're not that out of the ordinary. He never had a good reason for his bjc vote. He never had a good reason for his Paschendale vote.

My bjc vote was a reaction to his reasoneless votes. It was to pinpoint it is not pro-town. I see nothing wrong with it, go vote me for this bs reason if you want to.

I had a fair reason to vote Pasc (41,53), and than it got stronger with his scum-slip at 232 as pointed out by bjc at 233. That was the strongest slip i read in this thread and my vote is fine there.

[Desperado]

V/la until next Tuesday, moving so no internet

[Paschendale]

What you and bjc are idiotically calling "scumslip" is actually being thoughtful and trying to choose my vote carefully so as to lynch scum and not town.

I'm starting to see the merits of a Shaded wagon. Their ISO consists of an unfounded vote, an assertion of self-evidence for that vote, one question, one terrible reads list, a terrible vote on me, and attempts to justify it after the fact. I take back my previous statement about Shaded not seeming scummy. There's no reasoning, there's one bullshit reason cribbed from someone else, and there's no analysis at all.

[reinoe]

Shaded Melee says he doesn't like those two posts but really they're not that out of the ordinary. He never had a good reason for his bjc vote. He never had a good reason for his Paschendale vote.

My bjc vote was a reaction to his reasoneless votes. It was to pinpoint it is not pro-town. I see nothing wrong with it, go vote me for this bs reason if you want to.

Which was a reasonless vote-thus pinpointing your behavior is not pro-town. I am voting you and I encourage everyone reading this exchange to do the same.

[Paschendale]

It's certainly temping, but I'm reluctant to let Bulge off the hook so easily.

[Mist7676]

The_Bulge prodded

[The Bulge]

Sorry, could have sworn I had posted here recently.
Tonight is my last night of homework so I proooomise to be more active.
Catch-up post/reads later tonight or tomorrow

[Wickedestjr]

1.) His lack of actual content makes it seem like he's just trying to pass the day through to get through and get his NK done so he can line something up for the days after.

2.) At the time, I didn't think anything of the pasch votes. I'll go back and re-read to see if I find anything out of the ordinary.

3.) I explained the reason I'm voting in one of my latest posts.

4.) Yes and no. I would rather lynch Maru over Bulge right now, as Sns made some good points that changed my mind on the subject. I still want Bulge lynched, and my thoughts may change based on Maru's flip, but I honestly think he's scummier than Bulge right now.

On another note, is Shaded flailing or is it just me?

1.) This doesn't really make any sense. Does this mean Maruchan is the other werewolf?

2.) So... anything out of the ordinary?

3.) I've read your iso twice now. I don't see any reasoning other than "he is useless". Unless I missed something twice, your Maruchan vote contradicts your belief that uselessness =/= scum. And again, did you not notice Maruchan's lack of contribution before sns pointed it out? I thought it was pretty blatant.

4.) Well, in your post 384 you also said "Sns, let's lynch Shaded tomorrow, yes?" shortly after voting Maruchan. At one point you seemed to really want to lynch Bulge today. Next thing I know, you have Maruchan AND Shaded ahead of him on the pecking order. Seems like a radical change.

I'm not sure that he was flailing, but he was most definitely lurking.

[Wickedestjr]

This still kinda sounds like BS. If Bjc apprehension was so significant, then why would you call him definite scum in the first place? When you stated your read you should have taken both Suspicions and Apprehension into account. And it's possible opportunism because I was seriously pursuing Bins. Did you miss that?

Because definite scum was the first reaction, and then I considered it further. You know, evolve reads based on more information. And I wouldn't call asking a few questions "serious pursuit", espeically since nothing ever came of them.

Yeah, but before you "considered it further" you voted Bins and kept your vote on Bins rather than bjc. In post 232, your reads list, your suspicion of bjc was stronger than your suspicion of Bins. In post 266 you were still voting Bins but called bjc definite scum. "I considered it further" is a great explanation for unvoting bjc after already voting him, but it doesn't explain why you never voted him. I don't understand why you weren't voting him in post 232 or 266 because you suspected him more than Bins when you made those posts.

[Bins]

I'm just going to post saying that I've fallen a little behind so I'm going to refresh my memory a bunch after my exam tomorrow. After that, I'm free! So I'll be active and stuff.