Open 563 - Jungle Republic (Night 5~)

[Paschendale]

And this is coming out in lylo? Talk about convenient.

You only brought up your self meta here during lylo. Or do you mean the points I just made about your slot? Those have all been made before. I'm just summarizing.

Maybe you should just vote me, given how certain you are.

All in good time.

You're scumreading someone based on how some lazy people (OK, I fall into this crowd too, but at leaswt I'm admitting it) contributed in the game.

I'd be disappointed if you weren't protecting your buddy here.

Pasch, vote me.

After we hear from Bins.

[Riddleton]

pretty please? <3

[Riddleton]

You're scumreading someone based on how some lazy people (OK, I fall into this crowd too, but at leaswt I'm admitting it) contributed in the game.

I'd be disappointed if you weren't protecting your buddy here.

Oops.

[Aegor]

Aegor: Can you verify the game actually exists which he's talking about, or is pasch making it up?

I have no reason to believe he is lying. My larger point is that it was probably my first or second scum game after a hiatus of several years; obviously I did not rejoin the site with all of my strategies fully developed.

You only brought up your self meta here during lylo. Or do you mean the points I just made about your slot? Those have all been made before. I'm just summarizing.

Nice try. My self-meta was a response to your suspicion, which materialized in the endgame and is now being retroactively justified via a cursory read on my predecessor.

All in good time.

i.e. you are waiting to quickhammer for the scum win.

Town players: Pasch is transparently scum. He has latched onto potential mislynches, and is now tunneling them. He shows no indication whatsoever of "changing his mind" (in quotations because he is scum and therefore any "change" is merely acting), yet refuses to vote those players whom he is tunneling and who he adamantly believes are scum, even though one of them is already being voted. This suggests that he wishes to quickhammer and avoid confirming that one of him and Riddleton is definite scum. I want thoughts on this theory.

[Bins]

Phone posting

Sorry I've been sick the past few days :<

Riddleton:

If you're town, you seriously need to stop talking as if every post has a malicious intent behind it like you're trying to shape your appearance. If you're scum, continue, because it's helping me read you
It feels like you're playing too scummy to be scum up too much and I have no idea how the fuck to read it so stop thanks be more genuine

[Bins]

Ok I have a longer post typed up saved as draft which I'll review in the morning because ew mobile

[Riddleton]

OK, well my plan was to try and guide Pasch into voting me, then we can all confirm that no one will be quickhammering me because both votes on me on scum. A bit disappointed it didn't work, but at least it reveals some more information. I agree with Aegor that he'll holding back votes so he can quickhammer.

If you're town, you seriously need to stop talking as if every post has a malicious intent behind it like you're trying to shape your appearance. If you're scum, continue, because it's helping me read you
It feels like you're playing too scummy to be scum up too much and I have no idea how the fuck to read it so stop thanks be more genuine

Alright.

[Paschendale]

I doubt that either of my teammates are going to fall for your line, Aegor. The game is basically over. We just need to decide if we're lynching you or Riddleton first.

[Paschendale]

I should have elaborated more before hitting submit... My decision for the towniest players to vote last was specifically to avoid a quickhammer. Of course, only the scum disagree with that notion. My summary of the play of your slot isn't any kind of retroactive justification. It was a fresh description of your slot's play after a re-read. Likewise the accusation of tunneling is nonsense. If you go back and look, I've chased half a dozen suspects during the game. And, of course, tunneling isn't really much of a scumtell. If someone does it because they can't fabricate genuine reads on lots of players, it can be. But most of the time it's a townie with a theory and a lot of confirmation bias. I had that with Bulge. I was wrong. I've been right about almost everything else, though. I spent more time diffusing mislynches than supporting them, and hunted werewolves like it was my job.

My alignment is obvious from my play. Even you know how obvious it is, which is why you're forced to rely on such lame accusations.

[Bins]

Alright, so basically what I had written out but better worded:

Seriously thinking Riddle before Aegor. It doesn't really matter, but I definitely have more of a townread on Aegor than I do on Riddleton right at this moment.

Right now, the possible scumteams are as followed (including not possible ones and why):

Riddle/Aegor - Basically standard PoE because I don't have a scumread on Pasch and I doubt Riddle/Fuzzy. Like seriously. If there's one thing that I'm confident in right now, it's my townread of Paschendale, and I feel like you guys are really trying to shut that down. Either I'm being blind and you are completely frustrated with me, or my read speaks true.

Riddle/Fuzzy - If Riddle wanted to play this for the long run, this is the best play possible. I forgot how freaking much scum need to play it for the long run because they aren't entering LYLO again, they're just entering 3-1. Riddle would enter bussing Fuzzy hard, by voting him, knowing that there can't possibly be a quick hammer. I wanted to wait this out, because it seems like they're turning on Pasch. Which is odd. I doubt this option, but hey, it would be cool.

Riddle/Pasch - If my Pasch read is wrong, this is the best possibility. This would explain why Pasch did not want to vote Riddle. And... maybe Riddle, with his master plan, was trying to show that since there was no quickhammer, Fuzzy was scum. I really doubt this. So it's unlikely they're the scumteam.

Aegor/Pasch - Would seriously blow my mind to think these guys are scum together. Their interactions do not speak that way at all.

Fuzzy/Aegor - I don't think the bussing would have been this extreme.
Fuzzy/Pasch - 1) Townread on Pasch, 2) I don't think Pasch would outright call his partner out as town in the situations he did if he was his partner. This again is another reason why I feel Pasch is really town, because he's stepping into places scum wouldn't.

TL'DR - I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND PASCH/FUZZY BECAUSE I'M TOWNREADING PASCH AND THEN I DON'T THINK SCUM PASCH WOULD CALL SCUM FUZZY TOWN LIKE THAT THE DAY BEFORE BECAUSE OF HOW SCREWED OF A SITUATION HE WOULD BE IN LYLO IF FUZZY WERE TO GET LYNCHED AND DIE.

Does that make sense?

[Bins]

Like, seriously, that's what it's riding on for me.

PASCH FREAKING CALLED FUZZY TOWN YESTERDAY, KNOWING WE WERE PROBABLY LYNCHING WW. Meaning LYLO the next day, where Fuzzy was in a TERRIBAD position. And if Fuzzy had gotten lynched (and he flipped scum), he would be screwed.

I'm just peeved because it seems like Riddle and Aegor aren't even addressing each other now.

[Riddleton]

PASCH FREAKING CALLED FUZZY TOWN YESTERDAY

They're townreading each other when they have literally no reason and basis for it. It's dumb yes, but they're newbscum.


I don't know why you're townreading pasch. Do you think his reluctannce to vote so he can quickhammer seems suspicious to you?

[Riddleton]

also if you want to townread pasch and are more confident with fuzzy,why not vote him then?

[Bins]

I just can't fathom scum just asking for permission to quickhammer.

[Bins]

also if you want to townread pasch and are more confident with fuzzy,why not vote him then?

Because I don't trust you and Aegor?!

[Riddleton]

I just can't fathom scum just asking for permission to quickhammer.

he's really that stupid, seriously!

[Riddleton]

Why do you think I'm scum again, anyway? I forgot. Unless they're similar reasons to Fuzzy's 'case', I don't think I remember you actually posting a case against me. Either way, I'd appreciate it as it's be insightful to know why there's a barrier of trust. Obviously a bad thing, especially in LyLo, and ghves the scum (fuzzy and pasch) an excuse to coast through the game.

[Riddleton]

also if you want to townread pasch and are more confident with fuzzy,why not vote him then?

Because I don't trust you and Aegor?!

Voting someone shouldn't be about your associative trust withn someone else who's also voting -- it should be done through your own deduction, reasoning and logic that the person is scum.

[Paschendale]

Riddleton is scum because he's been playing very defensively. His objective has been to survive. He's avoided going on a limb at any point during the game. Likewise, in 600 posts, his reads haven't changed. He's calling the same people scum and the same people town as he was at the beginning of day 2. There's been no evolution of reads. No new information that has apparently penetrated his mind. Not to mention, of his three scumreads during this game, one was Bulge who was universally scumread and lynched with no help at all from Riddleton, but the other and me and Fuzzy. Before today, he has expended barely any effort to get us lynched. We're still here, alive and well, and scumhunting. He can't manage to make a compelling case. His tactics are indicative of a long game survival strategy, which is what scum has to do in this setup.

@Bins: I feel entirely comfortable voting for a Riddleton/Aegor scumteam. You've read my reasons. Do you want to discuss anything? Are you ready to vote? Which one do you feel more strongly about?

[Riddleton]

Riddleton is scum because he's been playing very defensively. His objective has been to survive. He's avoided going on a limb at any point during the game. Likewise, in 600 posts, his reads haven't changed. He's calling the same people scum and the same people town as he was at the beginning of day 2. There's been no evolution of reads. No new information that has apparently penetrated his mind. Not to mention, of his three scumreads during this game, one was Bulge who was universally scumread and lynched with no help at all from Riddleton, but the other and me and Fuzzy. Before today, he has expended barely any effort to get us lynched. We're still here, alive and well, and scumhunting. He can't manage to make a compelling case. His tactics are indicative of a long game survival strategy, which is what scum has to do in this setup.

@Bins: I feel entirely comfortable voting for a Riddleton/Aegor scumteam. You've read my reasons. Do you want to discuss anything? Are you ready to vote? Which one do you feel more strongly about?

I didn't ask you; I asked Bins. The reason I'm calling the same people scum is because the same people

are

scum. Roles do not change mid-game. I receieved a VT PM when I replaced in, and I'm pretty sure I'm still a VT now! Someone's reads changing is not indicative of being town. My reads are just too good for you to handle

[Riddleton]

@Bins: I feel entirely comfortable voting for a Riddleton/Aegor scumteam. You've read my reasons. Do you want to discuss anything? Are you ready to vote? Which one do you feel more strongly about?

Then vote for me then, instead of holding back for the hammer. Scum.

[Riddleton]

like, you've thought I was scum throughout the whole game but all you say is "Riddle is scum! I won't vote him though, all in good time"

[Riddleton]

If you think I'm scum, then awesome. But have the gumption to follow through on your threat. Otherwise you'll look even more scum in retaliation.

[Riddleton]

Hint: you're screwed either way. If you don't vote, you look scummy. If you do, Aegor and Bins can confirm themselves as town and then we either have:
1) both fuzzy and pasch are scum
2) one of fuzzy or pasch is scum, and I am scum too

[Aegor]

I doubt that either of my teammates are going to fall for your line, Aegor. The game is basically over. We just need to decide if we're lynching you or Riddleton first.

You are so dumb. You are on the record as strongly and incontrovertibly believing that Riddleton and I are on a team, and you have closed any window through which you may have escaped on your Riddleton read. Your holding off on your vote while simultaneously claiming that you are "comfortable" voting either of us is therefore self-contradictory and scummy.

I should have elaborated more before hitting submit... My decision for the towniest players to vote last was specifically to avoid a quickhammer. Of course, only the scum disagree with that notion.

There is clearly no consensus as to who is the towniest, and therefore you plan is stupid.

My summary of the play of your slot isn't any kind of retroactive justification. It was a fresh description of your slot's play after a re-read.

What you posted was neither fresh nor descriptive; it was a vague condemnation used as a retroactive justification, as I said.

Likewise the accusation of tunneling is nonsense... hunted werewolves like it was my job.

It was the job of every player still alive.

My alignment is obvious from my play. Even you know how obvious it is, which is why you're forced to rely on such lame accusations.

Appeal to self-evidence is my favorite scumtell. And if my slot were as obvious as you made it seem, you would have hardly needed a re-read that culminated in a vacuous post reaffirming your suspicion of me.



Vote Riddleton now. You clearly have no reason to hold off and are not going to change your mind anytime soon.