Mini 1420: The Beginning Of The End (Game Over)

[Slandaar]

I want Slaandar to post.

Why?

[Slandaar]

Well eventually I'd like everyone to post and give there reads and input.

What kind of reads do you think one would have this early?

What did you want my input on? I obviously didn't post it in my previous post yet you didn't follow up?

[Slandaar]

Do you think voting me will increase the chance that I will post?

And I have one more question for you Dann;
Why am I always scum when the one game we played together I was town?

[Slandaar]

wait I lynched you once it was 1 town 1 scum still, the question stands.

[Slandaar]

GoodMorning; Do you like playing town? Do you like playing scum? which is your favourite? why?

[Slandaar]

I want Slaandar to post.

Why?

Why not?

What kind of response is this? Thoughtless is the answer.

If he wants me to post there must be a reason behind it; it was 1 hour into game start so why does he want me to post? does he think I am not going to post without him voting me? (obviously not)

Do you think voting me will increase the chance that I will post?

It should. Because I'm seriously not liking whatever you've posted so far and it reeks scummy.

This response makes no sense; see top comment and how what I say relates to it.

Why is it more likely I will post if I am being voted? Do Explain.

GoodMorning; Do you like playing town? Do you like playing scum? which is your favourite? why?

And to top it off with pointless RQS questions?
GG

Vote: Slandaar

Wasn't Random, Wasn't Pointless, if it was RQS I would have asked everyone.

Your fake scumhunting is easy to see through.

GG as you say
VOTE: Om

[Slandaar]

I would be willing to bet Om put 2 minutes thought into his post and picked what looked like the fluff poster to vote

Lynch him, hes scum.

[Slandaar]

To get your participation and get read off you since you two have played with each other before, maybe? I do that with people I've played with as well.

The very fact that you go and overreact to it by asking 'why'

on RVS stage raises my eyebrow.

OK so Om is saying; there is a reason, I ask for it, but apparently asking someone why is overreacting.

In case its not obvious the main reason I was questioning Dann hard is because;

VOTE: Slaandar He's always scum.

Which when our games are 1 town 1 scum is just wrong and so I wanted to engage him.

What Om has failed to mention though is the fact Dann did not give the answer he is suggesting and more fumbled about which should have interested him if he were town.

Ask yourself that, you sure as hell posted something worth whenever you received vote. Hell; your ISO has posts only replying to votes on you, except your 53. Which is practically consist of random useless questions. And yes, they are till I see what's their point.

I posted something when I saw game had started and then the next morning which is a whole 8 Hours after your post so nice try; especially when game has been running less than 24 hours.

Now you can explain it without trying to divert.

It is and

that is what

fake scumhunting looks like.

I say; its not random
Om; IT IS IT IS!!!

If Om were town he would have asked the point not just reply with this nonsense.

Here let me explain it; GM's first post comes off as excited lots of jokeyness not taking things too serious it can also be seen as nervousness, now this can be for many reasons, I was looking at why.

What were the questions for; short version: the fact is her favourite alignment and why she likes it can play a huge part in excited and nervousness hence the questions.

I have not completely decided on which it is yet.

Argue that isn't scumhunting Om.

Nice OMIGUS btw.

Good argument. Trying to use a buzzword to discredit me.

I can't see anything in what hes saying its all just nonsense overreacting is his main argument? I overreact by saying 'why?' ? that is his argument? yet he was so strongly worded in his vote. If he argued I hadn't commented on major wagons that would have been one thing instead his case is I was scumhunting.

Ftr; Neither Om or I has posted about the major wagons.

He is scum. Lynch him.

[Slandaar]

Yes, attacking him the way you did for his RVS vote on you is overreacting.

Dann basically lied in his post, I am obviously not going to just ignore that which is the only reaction Om thinks is town?

Does not compute.

I would've been more surprised if he actually did reply to you on those. It was a RVS vote. Something similar to what I did to Trollie and I wouldn't be answering if he actually questioned me for accusing him of using underhanded plan. That's just

What? He did reply.

The difference here is his vote on me made no sense it is a pure contradiction to meta the vote on om however wasn't.

And you completely avoided to say anything about major wagon (trollie one) before your 53 and went after GM for what? Joking?

Ignoring the GM stuff; What did you expect me to say about a Trollie wagon with no reasoning behind it?

Looks like you haven't played with GM yet. And, no it still isn't scumhunt. Tell me how her answers helps you get anything regarding her alignment, because it seriously doesn't.

What basis do you have to suggest I am wrong?

Explain to me this; if her post is nervous how does that not point to scum?

I won't go further because there is no need, you are just making stuff up you obviously have no basis behind what you say.

Before voting you I was leading the major wagon, so I'm not sure what you want me to comment on as I find you scummy enough to get all of my attention so far.

Leading the Major wagon is a stretch to say the least; You voted randomly and came back to it being the leading wagon.

This does prove my earlier point about you not commenting on anything else except votes on you.

Well there is 53 as you said. 'He didn't except here where he did...'

[Slandaar]

I feel so calm now

Elleran is probably scum; town don't look for excuses (or reasons) to vote people.

[Slandaar]

Okay, the second part about town not needing excuses or reasons to vote people is a complete BS. So you're telling me that I can say "I find XXX scummy. Vote: XXX" and people won't question me? No way. Not after the first page maybe. Town DOES look for excuses and reasons. In this game, excuses and reasons are what drive people to act, not withholding information or baseless claims.

No

Town does not look for reasons to vote someone; Town looks for scum

The difference is quite huge.

[Slandaar]

Thinking re Om he was too strong in his initial vote with very little to no reason for such confidence.

[Slandaar]

Kthx is scum btw.

[Slandaar]

I have to say this is the most boring start to any game I've ever played in. How are we to hunt for scum when nobody posts...?

Above: From a (recent) game he was town where this is post 22 in 8 hours, which isn't that slow.

7 pages? Really?! Sigh, I'll get to this game when I can.

It doesn't seem the same guy does it?

Then check his posting history and it becomes even more apparent.

[Slandaar]

Someone's mad I killed him and won the game with my Vig ability.

3 main reason's my play this game vs other games I'm in is the game you linked was my first game back from a very long break. Second, this game blew the hell up out of nowhere and I haven't had the time to get into this one. The last reason is something I'm not going into right this second but it's there. Anyway, like I said before, I'll come play here soon as I catch up.

Are you suggesting you are as engaged as you were there? I see you are not by the way you made excuses. So why then are you trying to suggest although my case is completely accurate that I only made it because of last game and not because you infact are not playing how I would expect from town you?

To answer a question directed at me somewhere,

I think Joel's noob/VI. In the game Slandaar posted, we caught noob-scum (well, I caught) D1 and I don't get the same vibe from Joel. That's why I call him town.

Here we see kthx applying meta of a different player to Joel to read Joel which is obviously laughable.

'I don't get the same vibe I got from X who was scum as I do from Y so Y is town'

[Slandaar]

@Slandaar

: Town looks for reasons to vote. Here's my logic:
1) Town looks for scum.

You got it.

2)

To vote on the supposed-scum, town formulates an argument.

3) For the argument to be valid, it must be grounded upon an evidence and reason.
4) Without reason, the vote is invalid.
Therefore, town is looking for reasons. No exceptions.

???

So, I found a supposed scum and am now formulating an argument as to why I am going to vote them?

Town looks for scum they do not look for reasons to vote supposed-scum.

Here is a prime example; I think Elleran is scum because: gut.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elleran

Is my vote invalid? Find out in the next VC!

[Slandaar]

And OMIGUS is OMIGUS whether you like it or not

K

[Slandaar]

So let me get this straight. You don't look for reasons to suspect anyone to be scum? You just magically 'know' whether someone's a scum or not without any evidence or information?

Here is a prime example; I think Elleran is scum because: gut.

Gut and magically knowing are pretty similar.

I didn't say I don't scumhunt. I said; towns thought is not to look for the reason it is simply to look for scum. Gut is a great example that showcases the not looking for a reason but looking for scum.

[Slandaar]

And OMIGUS is OMIGUS whether you like it or not

K

Good argument. Trying to use a buzzword to discredit me.

K

Exactly. Your argument was terrible. The point was to show you (I already knew), your reaction was pretty bad.

[Slandaar]

Elleran, Om and kthx are the scum

If I am somehow wrong Jennifer or Goodmorning could be but that isn't likely.

[Slandaar]

And I'm telling you that town finds scums by looking reasons why someone seems to be scum. Town's thought IS to look for reasons why someone would be scum. You do this because looking for scum without reason is

impossible

. Why even say 'gut' when you can just say 'I flipped a coin and it said that you were scum'? Even gut feeling comes from reading people's posts and getting vibes. Why do you even bother reading this thread at all if you're just going to say 'gut' without even saying where or why you're getting your gut feeling?

I don't look for reasons.

Here I will show this very simply;

1. When you are town, you look for reasons why someone is scum.
OR
2. When you are town you look for scum any reasoning just comes to you naturally.

Which do you think is correct?

[Slandaar]

Who do you think are the scums? I'm dying to know.

This is scum.

'You won't get it right nanananananana'

[Slandaar]

And OMIGUS is OMIGUS whether you like it or not

K

Good argument. Trying to use a buzzword to discredit me.

K

This is also scum.

He failed the reaction test horrendously.

[Slandaar]

What do you mean 'wow'? I am right a lot of the time

[Slandaar]

Trollie is town.

Elleran is scum; lynch him.

[Slandaar]

Please, enlighten us more about the game. Who do you think are the scums? I'm dying to know.

As opposed to asking Trollie for a list of everyone who he thinks is town? I don't think so. It's so much easier for scum to come up with a list of who he thinks is town than for a list of who he thinks is scum.

As we can see Elleran in quote 1 is being sarcastic, in quote 2 he is defending himself by suggesting there was actual reasoning behind his question.

There obviously wasn't

Hes scum

Lynch.

[Slandaar]

(quote numbers are wrong)

[Slandaar]

I don't like explaining townreads.

Only thing with Joel is the evil tower comment as you can see it coming from scum trying to play the 'scum wouldn't say that' card while from town, as a joke? eh maybe. To look town ie; 'scum wouldn't say this so i will look town' this also can apply but I think is less likely from newer players which Joel obviously is.

Basically its pretty WIFOMy but the principle is that because hes initiating a game of wifom to look town (which as a joke is the actual idea even when he doesn't realise it) its not a good post.

Lack of content doesn't mean people are scum; if it did all scum have to do to win mafia games is post more content than everyone else which isn't hard.

Now, the fact he hasn't voted is fairly town because he isn't trying to fit in with everyone else.

So, the wagon isn't good. Its not impossible for him to be scum but the case on him is pretty weak.

Who is scum on the wagon? kthx.

My town read on Joel has gone away now that he hasn't posted in ages. He's hasn't posted in any game since the 3rd though. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up replacing out.

Just read that. 'I don't think hes town because he hasn't posted but he hasn't posted onsite' (after the but should completely invalidate the whole statement)

Lynch Elleran.

[Slandaar]

<--

[Slandaar]

Elleran why are you suggesting I have not explained my scumreads?

[Slandaar]

I understand that you haven't updated your case against Om in awhile because he hasn't posted (and is getting replaced). Makes sense.

K

You posted stuff against Kthx, some stuff which I find reasonable. I actually see kthx being scum due to his recent "let's jump on a wagon and kill whoever is convenient" attitude.

K

Your case against me doesn't make sense.

But there is one as you imply here.

So, why were you suggesting I have not explained?

You have yet to answer my question regarding why you think Trollie is town even though I've been actively asking since post 292.

I answered. My answer is this; I do not like explaining townreads.

Your last attack against me was:

which I've answered in post 292. You just keep dodging my questions and press that I'm scum without giving any rebuttals. What else am I supposed to conclude other than that you have no way to defend your cases?

OK Let me make it clear for you; I do not accept your 'answer' therefore I have nothing to 'defend' I don't need to argue with you about it. My opinion is X, you say blah blah to try to explain X, I can either buy it or not, I did not.

[Slandaar]

Trollie: do you believe he didn't know who the biggest wagon would be?

[Slandaar]

VOTE: Jennifer

I think.

[Slandaar]

You are going to post here though, right?

[Slandaar]

I think we should massclaim

[Slandaar]

Yeah lets do it, I will initiate it tomorrow so that y'all have chance to try and deter me but you probably can't.

Good morning and Jennifer will be the first 2 to claim.

[Slandaar]

3/4 PR out of 7 town alive helps us narrow down things considerably

Scum can fakeclaim but it will be obvious when they do.

[Slandaar]

Why do you think we have an SK?

I love the cognitive dissonance; if it cant be a vig then why would they ever claim vig to begin with?

[Slandaar]

lol. I didn't do a massclaim; Nice lie.

fyi: I am lurking to deconfirmation bias certain people before I reassess things.

Massclaim still seems good to me. Let me think on it a bit more.

[Slandaar]

OK We are massclaiming

Vig needs to claim first.

If there is no vig claim there is an SK and any future vig claims will be lynched as such.

[Slandaar]

Massclaims are inherently protown and with 3 VT dead 1 day off lylo potentially it is clearly the time to massclaim.

The fact 3 VT are dead increases;
The conftown/pool ratio from claiming
The Chance PR is shot by vig/scum tonight

So claiming we are.

And your position in the claiming order just got a lot worse.

Vig claims first.

[Slandaar]

A massclaim right now does absolutely 100% nothing except out PRs for scum to take aim at and it is not happening.

OK so DRK is scum.

He is basically trying to stand up for whats generally considered standard while clearly not thinking about the situation ie;

It does many things, nothing is beyond a lie.

if we have 3/4 conftown from PR's that increases chance of lynching scum today along with the fact the vig won't shoot a PR tonight. These are both huge benefits.

If we do not massclaim and scum hit a PR (they could have rolecop etc increasing these odds) and vig hits one. Well why didn't we massclaim today again? The whole situation is risk/reward and this is the time to claim by my calculations. Losing one PR tonight to the vig/scum is the same as letting the scum know who the PR's are to shoot tonight it is LITERALLY THE SAME THING and the odds of that happening are actually fairly high scum having a 3/7 or 3/6 without PR considerations if not 4/7 4/6 then vig is 2/8 or 3/8 ... this means if we don't lynch scum today odds we lose a PR best case is 3/7 and 1/4 which is eh like 16/28

SO OVER HALF THE TIME WE LOSE A PR BEST CASE SCENARIO

Best case. That is.

Worst case is;
4/6 3/8

OH THIS WILL BE BAD FOR YOU DRK

REALLY BAD

WORST CASE IE WE MISLYNCH(Not a PR that kind of defies the point) TODAY MEANS WE LOSE A PR TONIGHT

3/4 of the time

GOOD ODDS YA?

Obviously the other thing that can happen is scum fakeclaim into a town PR and get lynched. Obviously good too and with quite a few alive it means their potential rolecops have less info etc. They can fakeclaim something and then we know there is scum in the group of PR's it will be obvious who as long as there is a vig.

Nothing indeed.

VOTE: DRK

(PS: I hope my math is right)

[Slandaar]

Eh I lost part of my post when as I relogged in and had to save it well whatever

Basically I was saying that because we lose PR so much anyways by claiming we increase the odds to lynch scum today and vig scum tonight at the cost of scum 100% shooting a PR tonight

This trade is very very fair and is definitely good

You want to run vs 75% odds anyways? may as well trade it for a 3/7 of lynching scum today over 3/10 right?

[Slandaar]

or it could be 3/6 odds which is just... yeah

DRK is scum

Vig can claim

[Slandaar]

I have no idea what your argument is probably because you are scum.

I already said its a trade of odds and due to the ridiculously high odds we lose a PR anyway its a fantastic trade to narrow odds of lynch/vig scum.

[Slandaar]

I guess I must start case making on you when I get home in a bit.

[Slandaar]

I already said its a trade of odds and due to the ridiculously high odds we lose a PR anyway its a fantastic trade to narrow odds of lynch/vig scum.

Okay, okay, here's a scenario for you:

we run someone up to L-1.

They claim.

If they claim VT, MC wouldn't have done anything.
If they claim a PR, well wow, we just got the scummiest person to claim first.

It's like, amazing. It's almost as if massclaim doesn't help us at all and you didn't think this through at all from a town perspective. It's so weird.

So, assuming the person is lynched, the vig then has the 3/8 or 2/8 to hit PR.

How doesn't that help again? it also increases odds to vig scum in said scenario by removing the pr from the pool...

Did you think this through DRK? no.

[Slandaar]

But let's ignore our argument for now, we can finish it later today, okay? There's just one thing I want to hear from you:

Why a rolecop?

Because its the one that changes the odds of scum nking PR. None of the others do and that was what I was talking about. What does a RB do to affect scum shooting a PR? it doesn't.

[Slandaar]

After his iso #4, in which he talks to Dannflor, plus or minus like 2 posts where he gives a sentence in direct response to someone, he doesn't talk to ANYONE except Om, kthx, and Elleran for the ENTIRE rest of the day. Oh yeah, you were definitely actually scumhunting Slandaar.

Most definitely

So, my top scum suspects D1 ie; the 3 named people I interacted with the most and I wasn't scumhunting?

DRK even says I interacted with other just not to the same extent; guess why? because I was interrogating my main men ie scumhunting.

[Slandaar]

Ummm...

I really hope I don't have to guide you through why scum having a roleblocker would make massclaim even worse.

OK this is the best way to explain this; if town have an rb and scum don't this then swings hugely in favour of massclaim

There is no way to know such a thing

Therefore the possibilities like this balance out throughout the many variations of setup this could be.

The fact is there is a vig/sk and by using this info we can see massclaim is good.

[Slandaar]

If by "interacted with other", you mean "gave a one sentence response to something that had just been posted in one or two of your posts", then sure, you interacted with other people.

That is my posting style yes

Good Job.

[Slandaar]

Although I guess I should say; if there was no vig claim we were not massclaiming; simply getting info its an sk

clearly good.

[Slandaar]

Therefore, we should make arguments in favor of massclaim that use the possible existence of a scum rolecop as an important factor in why massclaim is good.

I didn't make it an important part

I included it because the fact the role exists means the odds of the scum killing PR are higher than what I said; I still used the actual odds not including it though.

So, what is your point?

[Slandaar]

How to know DRK is scum in 1 minute;
As soon as he realised I was willing to head to head he immediately started to appeal to the masses with images; this is to manipulate ie; by posting images you are trying to influence peoples votes not with reasoning but with popularity.

It is quite obvious.

[Slandaar]

Nacho is scum

Vig has to claim first because if he doesn't and is SK who doesn't claim you get the mass PR death which is exactly what he said was bad about massclaim.

I am the doc obviously so time to massclaim.

[Slandaar]

Go meta me, I love being conftown and that is what I would be here;

You agree though that the vig had to claim first now, correct?

[Slandaar]

why wouldn't I?

there is obviously a protective role with scum + vig/sk and that is ... me

Why am I not conftown again?

If no scum fakeclaim I am also just plain conftown.

[Slandaar]

Whatever I am biased I know I am doc.

There is the obvious fact that in a massclaim d2 there those 3 roles would be conftown though thus proving why massclaim is good.

[Slandaar]

1394 doesn't even have a vig

RB makes the massclaim insanely protown.

[Slandaar]

You don't think even/odd night + gunsmith makes complete sense from a setup POV thereby making them all conftown? i mean the vigs obviously are and then the gunsmith if he claimed first its very very clear, if after its still pretty obvious unless scum fakeclaim what? cop, cops getting lynched first.

[Slandaar]

1394 doesn't even have a vig

what, and you think that makes your point stronger?

So, you think you can say X produce Y to support X then when I say Y doesn't support X you think I am using Y as my argument?

Scum.

[Slandaar]

its still a 1:1 trade for the gunsmith at best.

[Slandaar]

you said you were conftown because it's guaranteed there's a protective role in the game
i give you three examples of mini normals without protective roles
and you're all "OH BUT THERE WASN'T A VIG IN THE SECOND LINK"
which doesn't actually take anything away from my point because those other two games still exist

I didn't argue I was wrong I said I was biased.

OK

This is very simple;

What do you expect me to say when you are linking something and it is clearly wrong to do so?

[Slandaar]

and when the fuck did you decide that massclaiming was the best thing ever, and why do you think you will see everything clearly after everyone claims? you sure as hell didn't go "FUCK YOU GUYS, -L- IS CONFIRMED TOWN" in 1242.
and why are you so crazy with "don't agree with massclaim? fucking scumbag" because it's shitty and i don't like it and shows you actually aren't using your brain
and why do you think the 1:1 trade with the gunsmith shit?

Well I am not conftown now ergo L wasn't there. Although I did think she was town.

You need to massclaim for it to work not individual claims, what is this nonsense?

2 vigs basically confirmable mason they can confirm each other
JK
Gunsmith

Sound legit? no, so JK or Gunsmith dies.

[Slandaar]

Meta me.

You need to look far back I die n1 a lot.

[Slandaar]

In fact meta me as scum I never do it as scum.

[Slandaar]

(the reason I don't as scum is because its too good for town, towns are just bad and don't understand this)

[Slandaar]

having 2 vigs that can confirm each other; note a guilty from gunsmith does not mean the vig is lynched it just means a massclaim; is very strong. You have 2 confirmable town who can kill at night.

2 of them

[Slandaar]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4035893
Day 2 Massclaim led by... me.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4160045
Talking about massclaim d1 setup doesn't really count but you can see it.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4203958
Massclaim day 2

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4077798
Forcing it D3

Yeah I don't need to go on.

[Slandaar]

having 2 vigs that can confirm each other; note a guilty from gunsmith does not mean the vig is lynched it just means a massclaim; is very strong. You have 2 confirmable town who can kill at night.

2 of them

this doesn't answer anything

They are very very strong

You can't have 2 vigs + Gunsmith + a JK its way too much.

I explained why the vig/gunsmith combo is so strong if a gunsmith claims on a vig; both vigs claim and then we have 3 conf town d2/3 whatever.

[Slandaar]

Day 2 Massclaim led by... me.

in a newbie game?

Yes?

massclaiming in an open setup is different

I did say that; the mentality to massclaim is still seen hence I just put it in.

then both power roles were shot over night and scum-Thor ran train on you

You don't know the whole story.

The fact is; it happened and was my idea.

and the only reason it did something amazing was tinker tailor soldier spy
so that's obviously a special case

What?

We didn't know it was tinker tailor soldier spy at the time.

I have a lot more. I like how you tried to discredit them all though when the point is; I have shown 4 examples where I like to massclaim. There is no disputing this.

[Slandaar]

I AM THE DOC

THEY CANNOT DO THAT

[Slandaar]

well if they want to kill me they can but then that doesn't matter now and isn't really losing anything.

[Slandaar]

Scum have an rb means town has a lot of power so I really don't care if they block vig kill me; we will have at least a tracker to go with doc/full vig.

[Slandaar]

Anyways I did intend to claim bptown and not claim doc if I could help it if we did things properly instead of this nonsense.

Now all thats happening is I will die one way or the other and guess what? town just lost the PR I said they would without a massclaim

Amazing.

[Slandaar]

The irony

Sland: lets massclaim I will die its ok we will have tons of info for today to lynch/vig scum.
Everyone: lol no you can't die instead lets lynch or let you claim only and scum nk you

Genius.

[Slandaar]

RB is a stupidly powerful scum PR which needs to be balanced with town power hence town has a lot of power when scum has an RB.

Think about this

Just Think

Massclaim today is the same as tomorrow. Except by doing it today we have more information earlier.

[Slandaar]

In fact let me try explaining this because literally noone can seem to grasp it;

We do not know the scum PR (unless you are scum)
We do not know all the town PR.

This means the variations are limitless; now, the reason massclaim is good is because its a % play on the fact that we (were) most likely (~50-75% not including lynch) losing a PR without a massclaim.

Now when its a vig, the vig is more informed, they won't shoot a PR (yes argue away) and they will have a better chance to shoot scum.

The lynch will be more likely to hit scum.

So, by saying; OK we concede this % of losing a PR to guarantee their demise we increase Vig accuracy and Lynch accuracy.

If the scum have an RB then yes thats like worst case scenario, but then think of best case; town has a JK/RB and in effect has 3 ways to find scum in one cycle. Or town has a cop without a scum RB, like that was game over nearly as I claim bp town, scum shoot cop, cop doesn't die... scum shoot me... yeah.

Massclaim won't be 100% protown in all variations but in most it will be because without a RB what it is doing is giving INFORMATION and increasing vig/lynch accuracy the only ones its not are where scum have a rb. Like that literally is it. Think of the rolecop, massclaim counters that role pretty well turning things in towns favour etc.

[Slandaar]

No, you think because in one scenario its not 100% great its bad, this is not how you should think about things.

[Slandaar]

It is definitely better today.

I still see no argument against it only 'WHAT IF X' which is focusing on one variation.

[Slandaar]

You said What if they have a RB

I said WHAT IF X

What if all our PR's die by tomorrow? Town just lost the power of massclaim.

[Slandaar]

It was hypothetical to show why the what if scum have an rb question is terrible both possibilities exist to say we shouldn't massclaim due to one single possibility is bad.

Depends on what is claimed as to who is lynched; if I answer VT, scum all just claim PR, right?

[Slandaar]

Yes Obviously

Has it not clicked I had side motivation to want to know who to protect?

Course not.

I don't see much point claiming my action its not like I targetted dann/trollie, if someone claims tracker who tracked me I can see if they are legit or not etc so benefits are better not to claim it.

[Slandaar]

Doc claim was pretty stupid imho, but I'm pretty sure Slandaar is doc.

Yes very stupid, so I lie and claim VT get lynched? or I lie and claim cop get cc? Quite the genius we have here.

Ztife is town.

anyways...

VOTE: GM

Just lynch her shes scum;

DRK is probably one of my better Townreads ATM and Slandaar's argument on the massclaim is indeed bullshit (as I mentioned before).

What shall I do now? What shall I do?
I shall jump all over this wagon.

Vote: Slandaar

Explain why Nacho is Town without using his purely theory points.

Shes voting me for theory (she knows its theory as seen in post to nacho ie if hes arguing theory I must be also or the argument is not about theory) or shes voting me because I think her townread is scum? Doesn't really matter, her other vote is Ztife which is for?

Exactly.

Lynch.

[Slandaar]

OK so Kthx hammers and that is null

How then is proposing massclaim not null?

Sure I could be scum with a devious plan, but then so could kthx with his hammer.

What exactly is the difference?

[Slandaar]

Also assuming I am right on Ztife your voting record is atrocious which counts against you, jump on elleran at opportune time, jump on me at opportune time and Ztife is easiest vote around.

[Slandaar]

Proposing massclaim is not null at this time because there is a clear deficit to Town in it.

There is a clear deficit to town in quickhammering.

What differentiates the two?

[Slandaar]

I could and would still vote him now, but it would be a complete waste even if he did get lynched

How would it be a waste?

You say you think I am scum; therefore you think if I am lynched I can flip scum and when I do the vote was... not wasted?

Lynch This.

[Slandaar]

I don't think I explained that very well

GM thinks I am scum
GM thinks if I am lynched she wasted her vote

How does it make sense? (it doesn't)

By saying her vote would be wasted she isn't accounting for the fact I could be scum (which she should be assuming I am considering her read) which proves her read is fake and she is scum.

[Slandaar]

She is scum for saying lynching me would be a waste even when she believes I flip scum

I mean what else is there to say?

[Slandaar]

I did see that post

What could possibly be using your vote well if not to vote for scum?

[Slandaar]

I also don't usually go back and check up on my opinions of people or my reasons for voting them.

OK I know Psyche keeps quoting this but; this does not come from town.

[Slandaar]

DRK is probably one of my better Townreads ATM and Slandaar's argument on the massclaim is indeed bullshit (as I mentioned before).

What shall I do now? What shall I do?
I shall jump all over this wagon.

Vote: Slandaar

Even in this post what has DRK being a townread got to do with... anything?

It does not make me scum because I think someone she thinks is town is scum.

Hammer her, she doesn't need to claim because quickhammering has no deficit to town (her words)

[Slandaar]

Proposing massclaim is not null at this time because there is a clear deficit to Town in it.

There is a clear deficit to town in quickhammering.

What differentiates the two?

If kthx found Elleran sufficiently scummy, there isn't necessarily any deficit to Town.

See

Just say you think she is sufficiently scummy then hammer away

No Problem in her mind. None at all.

[Slandaar]

(obviously nonsense she is scum)

[Slandaar]

Assuming she lost due to being 'stupid lynched' there it even explains the lack of effort to fight this time.

[Slandaar]

kwll has literally lied twice in this game to try and defend his read on me.

I can prove it

Needs to be lynched at some point.

[Slandaar]

kwll and gm are buddies

pretty obvious

[Slandaar]

D1 I lynched Elleran and was saying Om/Kthx scum
N1 scum kill Dann I assume but possible Trollie
We need to know this as fact but assuming Dann (we needed to massclaim really really badly)
Scum killed Dann because he is just a generic dude AND are happy with how game would go d2.
So, we can assume that scum were under little suspicion
We can also assume Kthx/Psyche are town (hey look remember my deconfirmation bias post followed shortly by the massclaim? we need to know who the vig shot; ya I am town obviously)
And then we can look into why DRK didn't die; his reads are wrong or hes scum.

Which leaves us with...

YA KWLL AND GM AS PRIME SUSPECTS AND/OR DRK and at present we are lynching Q21 the counterwagon to GM and both DRK and Kwll voting him. Very good. Very good.

Jennifer is the other likely candidate.

[Slandaar]

Then with that look at how kwll treats the GM and Q21 wagons

I mean wow.

When Q21 Flips town and we are in lylo tomorrow I will be instavoting kwll or GM.

[Slandaar]

I am telling you GM is scum.

Do with that what you will.

[Slandaar]

Good Luck lynching me tomorrow buddy

I will be voting you out the gates it is very freaking obvious what is currently going on.

[Slandaar]

Unvote Q21 untill massclaim ends

Why hasn't GM claimed yet? this is ridiculous.

Jennifer actually is probably town she can claim last the other 3;

DRK/GM/Kwll

Need to just claim or get lynched.

[Slandaar]

It is entirely possible for town to have tracker and cop

I am conftown at this point btw

Kthx has been quiet recently hes probably scum (said by the guy with the highest post count in game just fyi kthx)

[Slandaar]

GM posting history = scum

[Slandaar]

I can't really see how slaander's play is helping, not getting his logic and not seeing how he's posts help. Its so bad that im starting to think it could be a cop/tracker/vig setup with no docs...
Whatever the case is tracker and cop is HIGHLY unlikely and therefore q21 should be lynched.

Look

GM's refusal to claim earlier (stupid lynch etc.) might suggest that she's Vig. We'll have to wait and see.

Useless speculation

Doc Vig Tracker with a PR scum (possibly RB) sounds alright balanced. Im not too sure how neighbours would add into the mix.

Noone has claimed vig hence; pointless.

Vig VT as neighbours? Sounds like it will tilt towards town's favour.

Really? Where do you get this idea from?

SK VT as neighbours? Not too sure.

Well here is a tip; town doesn't have only 2 PR so if noone claims vig guess what? tracker/doc/cop is the setup with a hood.

If you are going to suggest my posting is bad at least post something useful please.

It takes 2 lines; if noone claims vig the 3 pr are conftown lynch GM
If someone claims vig, investigate claim then lynch Q.
Not rocket science

[Slandaar]

And now when we go to night I get to die

gsyhiapadiaf, slandaar

lol

Why do you die?

Why does it matter so much if you do?

I clearly die first btw.

Unless this is an issue for you because you are SK and you need to survive?

[Slandaar]

I have done some calculations

We should lynch Mala

GM can shoot DRK or Kwll

Ztife tracks Q

Q goes to Jennifer

I will protect Ztife.

I think this is best.

[Slandaar]

In fact just shoot kwll for his obviously wrong meta only case one me

[Slandaar]

Still think joels is Scum but that's one useless fucking vote right there.
Kthx is also Scum but that can probably wait.

Dann is pretty Town
So is DRK

Trollie... I dunno

GM claim not strong enough to believe

I think we should just use tracker on Q yes he can be scum PR but eh only a RB really screws the plan over and then only if they RB me vig Ztife at which point we know Q is scum.

VOTE: Mala

[Slandaar]

Think about it

I am conftown so I can do what I want at this point

IF GM is SK which I am not sure on we do not want to kill Q

So, we avoid this whole situation by doing what I said 'BUT WE LOSE A TRACKER INVEST WHEN Q IS SCUM!!!'

Doesn't really matter because Mala is scum 100%.

[Slandaar]

Just wait on kwll to claim or try to before lynching

[Slandaar]

OK

1 scum max in 4

or 2 in 6

Which are better odds DRK?

[Slandaar]

and its possible 0 in 4 3 in 6 with an SK

[Slandaar]

You can even remove kthx and nacho from the 6 if you argue READS

and then we see where my kills come from

kwll/DRK/Jennifer/Mala

OH

(I think Jennifer is most town of the 4 so 'investigate' her)

I hate having to explain all this is should just be obvious.

[Slandaar]

and if you are trying to pretend you are town DRK then the odds from your POV should be even better

Or did I go wrong somewhere?

[Slandaar]

GM fears death too much so I would not trust her as a vig ie as SK she loses obviously

Please lynch Mala today.

[Slandaar]

OK let me explain this as clearly as possible

We as the town have to

1. Decide who is scum out of PR claims (or there is SK)
2. lynch the scum in the VT

There is no reason to do 1 before 2 when at max there is 1/4 in the PR while 2/6 min in the VT its even detrimental to do so if you get it wrong.

Yes you can argue its more 50/50 in Q and GM; but when GM is SK we have lost the maximum. (and I have shown its more 50/50 in the VT also)
When we lynch in the VT we should be able to know who is scum tomorrow pretty easily based on all the results we get.

And assuming we lynch scum today ie Mala there is no difference to lynch her over Q as long as I protect Z and not Q.

[Slandaar]

lol

[Slandaar]

If Q flips cop GM is vigging his inno result?

Really?

Common sense needs to prevail here

Vig Mala or Kwll

Noone else is acceptable.

[Slandaar]

HAMMER NOW IF YOUR TOWN STOP BEING STUPID

Calm Ztife Calm there won't be a NL.

We need to sort out this ridiculous Vig target.

[Slandaar]

I was getting worried there I thought we were gonna have a no lynch!

[Slandaar]

town mislynched once and lost? nonsense setup.