Mini 1420: The Beginning Of The End (Game Over)

[JasonWazza]

VOTE COUNT 1.6

[3] Joelsdaman: goodmorning, q21, Dannflor,
[3] Om: Slandaar, DeathRowKitty, Ztife,
[2] Jennifer: Rondar, Elleran,
[1] TheTrollie: Kthxbye,

Not Voting: joelsdaman, TheTrollie, Om, Jennifer,

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2013-02-15 14:08:45)

[Kthxbye]

Ok, so caught up and I have a noob-town read on Joel, a town read on Slandaar, and a leaning scum read on Jennifer. All are mostly gut from the reading thus far. I don't like that Trollie has yet to do anything and I don't like the Om wagon. I'll...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jennifer

[Dannflor]

All are mostly gut from the reading thus far. I don't like that Trollie has yet to do anything

Um, you also have yet do anything of any sort of content. I believe the Trollie said he was going be away for bit.

Also, all your reads are mostly gut, so you can get away with calling certain people town and voting other people without having to explain yourself. Sounds like the perfect strategy... for scum that is.

[Kthxbye]

Naw, perfect would be not taking a stand at all. There is a lot of fluffy nonsense going on. That combined with it being day 1 means there is nothing to go on BUT gut. Why don't you like my reads?

[Elleran]

So you find Slandaar very scummy while you also have a town read on him.

No, you misunderstood the first part about Slandaar. Let me clarify quickly:

I said that he was making strong statements and that he was overaggressive. I had to meta-check him to confirm that his language was normally this way (I confirmed that he was). His overaggressiveness makes him more town because scums generally wouldn't want to initiate hot debates and make cases against multiple people at the same time.

I was saying that I WANTED to say that he was scummy because I really don't like how black and white his statements are. He says "XXX is scum. Lynch him." or "YYY is obviously scum." etc. Slandaar actually DOES give reasonable responses, though. His super dichotomy language makes me wish that he was scum but I'm getting a town read overall.

[Dannflor]

It's not that I dislike your reads, I just dislike the fact you have done 0 scum hunting and can't explain your reads or vote at all.

[Dannflor]

k, Elleran. Your post just seemed to contradict itself is all.

[Elleran]

Sorry for the double post. I misread kthxbye's post at post-edit and had to reread it afterwards.

---

Naw, perfect would be not taking a stand at all. There is a lot of fluffy nonsense going on. That combined with it being day 1 means there is nothing to go on BUT gut. Why don't you like my reads?

There ARE leads to go off of. Even now, looking at who's defending who, who's attacking who, who's active, who's lurking, etc, all these traits will be used in the future. Even now, I have some gut feelings about who's scummier than others. Some are more or less baseless than others and therefore I won't start a case. On the other hand, if I feel that I have enough evidence to question or even accuse someone, I will act.

Recognizing the relationships between players is CRITICAL in figuring out who are the scums Day 2 and beyond. Saying that there's nothing to go on just means either you haven't picked up anything suspicious or you just don't see others' logic.

[TheTrollie]

I'm catching up now...or someone can just tell me what happened

[Slandaar]

Someone's mad I killed him and won the game with my Vig ability.

3 main reason's my play this game vs other games I'm in is the game you linked was my first game back from a very long break. Second, this game blew the hell up out of nowhere and I haven't had the time to get into this one. The last reason is something I'm not going into right this second but it's there. Anyway, like I said before, I'll come play here soon as I catch up.

Are you suggesting you are as engaged as you were there? I see you are not by the way you made excuses. So why then are you trying to suggest although my case is completely accurate that I only made it because of last game and not because you infact are not playing how I would expect from town you?

To answer a question directed at me somewhere,

I think Joel's noob/VI. In the game Slandaar posted, we caught noob-scum (well, I caught) D1 and I don't get the same vibe from Joel. That's why I call him town.

Here we see kthx applying meta of a different player to Joel to read Joel which is obviously laughable.

'I don't get the same vibe I got from X who was scum as I do from Y so Y is town'

[Jennifer]

My 'gut' tells me that Kthx is just picking out what looks like the easiest target from the thread to give the appearance of being involved; the thread confirms a lack of scumhunting. He says he doesn't like the Om wagon, but doesn't question anyone on (or off) it.

@Joel I also am interested to your answer to DRK's question:

@joel
Have you been following along with the game or did you just happen to be online when Jennifer posted?

@Ztife Why vote Om? What do you mean '8 pages of active posting, no votes?'

[Slandaar]

@Slandaar

: Town looks for reasons to vote. Here's my logic:
1) Town looks for scum.

You got it.

2)

To vote on the supposed-scum, town formulates an argument.

3) For the argument to be valid, it must be grounded upon an evidence and reason.
4) Without reason, the vote is invalid.
Therefore, town is looking for reasons. No exceptions.

???

So, I found a supposed scum and am now formulating an argument as to why I am going to vote them?

Town looks for scum they do not look for reasons to vote supposed-scum.

Here is a prime example; I think Elleran is scum because: gut.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elleran

Is my vote invalid? Find out in the next VC!

[Om]

@Drk; Your vote is on me because you think you need to lynch me or you want me to explain why I unvoted? I've already done the latter in my follow up post. As for why I didn't vote someone else is because I was too tired and in not so friendly mood due to my exchange with Eldaar.

@GM; Correct me if I'm wrong; but you're calling out Jen for thinking my exchange with Slandaar was town/town and didn't unvote Elleran to vote one of use when you think it was Town/town too?

@Kthx; Why exactly do you not like wagon on me? Because you're voting someone who seems to share the same belief, I fail to see where you're gut read is coming on her.



@Ztife; You apparently read 8 pages and know I've posted lot but failed to see why I wasn't voting anyone when I was last OL? And you have nothing to say on anything else at all? Doesn't seem right.

vote : Ztife

[Slandaar]

And OMIGUS is OMIGUS whether you like it or not

K

[q21]

Regarding Jennifer

: I still find it odd that Jenn tried to accuse me so hard even though others had dropped out for some time. Because I feel that if Jenn was a scum, she would have gotten off the wagon long before it had lost popularity, but instead she stayed until the very end,

I am actually getting some town read on her now.

[...]

Apparently, this Slandaar vs Om wagon is getting hot.

I'm going to keep my vote on Jenn

until I can get a better read on both Slandaar and Om.

The cognitive dissonance is hurting my brain.

For all that Ztife's vote for Om was a little off, I can't help but get a OMGUSy feel from Om's counter vote.

Don't like Kthx posting, but for much the same reasons as have already been mentioned, so I won't rehash them. Would be surprised if Kthx and joel were scum together.

[Om]

And OMIGUS is OMIGUS whether you like it or not

K

Good argument. Trying to use a buzzword to discredit me.

K

[q21]

Also, currently hopped up on antibiotics and painkillers. Will try to keep up with the game, but don't expect more that short comments from me for few days.

[Elleran]

2)

To vote on the supposed-scum, town formulates an argument.

3) For the argument to be valid, it must be grounded upon an evidence and reason.
4) Without reason, the vote is invalid.
Therefore, town is looking for reasons. No exceptions.

???

So, I found a supposed scum and am now formulating an argument as to why I am going to vote them?

Town looks for scum they do not look for reasons to vote supposed-scum.

So let me get this straight. You don't look for reasons to suspect anyone to be scum? You just magically 'know' whether someone's a scum or not without any evidence or information? Either you're the best mafia player I've ever seen or your logic is screwed up.

BOTH town and scum look for reasons to vote. Town suspects a supposed-scum because he/she has a reason to do so. Town does not simply

know

who's scum for no reason. I don't understand. Please, Slandaar. I beg of you. Tell me how you know who's scum with no evidence, reason, or logic?

Oh wait. There is a way how someone would know.

UNVOTE: Jennifer
VOTE: Slandaar

Here is a prime example; I think Elleran is scum because: gut.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elleran

Impressive show of your investigative abilities! Your reasons are overwhelming me with all their logic. Please give me more.

I can't tell whether Slandaar is VI townie or a scum pretending to be a townie by being overly aggressive. I thought he was town, but clearly his reasoning is ridiculous. His response to me makes no sense.

[Slandaar]

So let me get this straight. You don't look for reasons to suspect anyone to be scum? You just magically 'know' whether someone's a scum or not without any evidence or information?

Here is a prime example; I think Elleran is scum because: gut.

Gut and magically knowing are pretty similar.

I didn't say I don't scumhunt. I said; towns thought is not to look for the reason it is simply to look for scum. Gut is a great example that showcases the not looking for a reason but looking for scum.

[Slandaar]

And OMIGUS is OMIGUS whether you like it or not

K

Good argument. Trying to use a buzzword to discredit me.

K

Exactly. Your argument was terrible. The point was to show you (I already knew), your reaction was pretty bad.

[Elleran]

Gut and magically knowing are pretty similar.

I didn't say I don't scumhunt. I said; towns thought is not to look for the reason it is simply to look for scum. Gut is a great example that showcases the not looking for a reason but looking for scum.

And I'm telling you that town finds scums by looking reasons why someone seems to be scum. Town's thought IS to look for reasons why someone would be scum. You do this because looking for scum without reason is

impossible

. Why even say 'gut' when you can just say 'I flipped a coin and it said that you were scum'? Even gut feeling comes from reading people's posts and getting vibes. Why do you even bother reading this thread at all if you're just going to say 'gut' without even saying where or why you're getting your gut feeling?

[Jennifer]

@Elleran What do you think of Kthx's response re: gut in this post?

[Elleran]

@Elleran What do you think of Kthx's response re: gut in this post?

I responded to that in post 207. tl;dr: I said that there are relevant information now and still new information forming.

[Kthxbye]

He thinks its awesome. I can't speak for others, but my gut reads don't come from a singular post but more of a desire to say "liar liar pants on fire" after reading all of someone's posts. Consider me talking to you Jennifer. Your posts seem fake and forced.

[Jennifer]

@Elleran Yes, but does that give you a leaning scum read on Kthx? Because you're questioning Slaandar's towniness for having the same belief on gut.

@Kthx Doubtful he does. Also, considered, but okay... all I can say in response to that is my posts aren't fake or forced.