Mini 1420: The Beginning Of The End (Game Over)

[JasonWazza]

@Mod: I probably need a replacement as I'm caught with something in RL and I won’t be able to pay any time for OL stuff for quite a while (2-3 weeks at least), sorry for the trouble.

Seeking a replacement for Om

@Mod and all: I will be V/LA starting Wednesday Feb. 13 until Tuesday Feb. 19

Noted and will be likely on all Vote Counts

VOTE COUNT 1.8

[4] Joelsdaman: goodmorning, q21, Dannflor, DeathRowKitty,
[2] Jennifer: Rondar, Kthxbye,
[2] Elleran: Slandaar, TheTrollie,
[2] TheTrollie: Elleran, Jennifer,
[1] Om: Ztife,

Not Voting: joelsdaman, Om,

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2013-02-15 14:08:45)

Also just as a note

Activity Rules

1. If a player goes 72 real life hours without posting or 48 hours on request

[Dannflor]

I don't like the votes on Elleran, and as much as I hate to be a hypocrite... I'm just getting a gut town read on him. I'll try and go back in a bit and dig up the posts that I thought were town.

Now, let's ISO Joel shall we? Not that there's anything to ISO...

Well this escalated quickly.

So, we've got a prime number, which is intrinsically evil
And a person who's a vote jumper.

So far 1 good town read, no scum reads.

So he states the obvious, says he has one read... but doesn't elaborate. Doesn't even vote.

Yeah...I'm thinking Elleran is town - flipping votes is actually more of a town quality, usually. Although it's really too early to tell.
I don't do RVS. I policy vote lurkers, always. Anyone that isn't "in on the action" immediately draws my attention.
So I'll sit and observe from my tower of evil.
Bwahahahahah.

So he says who his read is, but doesn't explain it much. Excuses himself out of voting, and then fluffs up the post a bit. No content so far...

It was a joke. Don't worry I'll participate, but it's my sister's birthday right now. I'll look things over and be more active tomorrow.

Yet to see this "activeness" or any content coming from it.

DeathRowKitty concerns me. Post 66, 65 and 59 are all weird.

Why be so serious about removing the RVS, then tell someone to "lighten up"? It's odd. Please explain.

Still doesn't vote, points out a few posts as odd, doesn't elaborate. Doesn't even say it's scummy... just "odd".

DRK, why did you change votes so quickly?

One thing I find weird about this, is the fact joel completely ignore everyone else and everything else going on. Just pointing out DRK's posts and asking him questions.

Actually...that's pretty fair.

Still looking around, haven't decided yet. I see no point in randomly voting at this point.

This is as scummy if not scummier than Jenn backing off at me. The really scummy thing about this is that he STILL doesn't vote.

So... I've seen no content from Joel... and he hasn't even voted yet. Reads as scum who is trying to look involved without actually taking sides on anything.

[DeathRowKitty]

I hate the way Trollie and Slaandar are playing. I don't hate them just their playstyle. Mainly because it makes them impossible to read. When you go "XXX is scum. YYY is town. Nuff Said."... you can't read that at all. Plus you have no idea why this person thinks so and so is scum. While I don't want to discredit their gut reads, it would be nice if they opened up a little and explained their reads a bit more. Just saying, it makes it a lot easier for town to scum hunt. That said, no reads on Trollie yet, Slaandar is leaning town, mainly from his interaction with Om...

I agree with literally everything in this post.

I'm occasionally a gut player (or maybe I was at some point and now I'm not anymore) so I can certainly understand playing from gut BUT if you just say "lol x is scum" without any attempt to tie it to some sort of reasoning that anyone else can follow, it's just noise. I'm not saying it even has to be anything solid - if you take a post and isolate one small part of the wording or highlight something you think seems wrong and say "this part feels off; I don't know why, but it does", that gives other players

something

to go off of. It means we can look at that part you highlighted and use that as a stepping stone to seeing the post in the same light in which you're seeing it or maybe even put some sort of words or hard reasoning to it.

I've stopped reading posts in this game that say things without giving me any sort of way to understand the conclusion. They're not worth the time to make sense of and it's not worth the time to press an explanation out of each and every unexplained read. If such a poster really cares about having people listen and agree with their positions, they'll attempt with some better way of explaining it eventually (conversely, if such a poster makes no attempt to do so, that too speaks volumes).

I'm not trying to say that anyone is behaving

exactly

as described, but Slandaar and Trollie specifically do each exhibit some subset of these symptoms.

[goodmorning]

I feel really lurkerish, but my opinions on this game...
They've not really changed.

I still want content from joels and am still looking at kthx, Trollie, and Ztife.
I think I'm leaning stronger Town on DRK, that's about the only change.

[Elleran]

To contribute my thoughts on joels wagon, I don't have any read on joels because to be honest, he hasn't posted anything meaningful. I suppose I can try to pull something out of the fact that he hasn't posted much so he's lurking, but there are so many more interesting evidences now that joels wagon seems insignificant to me. In conclusion, I have nulltell on joels.

If it means anything, joels hasn't answered a single question directed at him nor has he even bothered to respond to the wagon that's building on him. I can't tell if he just doesn't care, if he's actively lurking, or if he's just busy in real life. He hasn't posted any V/LA notices, so I'm forced to conclude that he's not too busy in real life. I'm probably not going to vote for joels tonight at the current rate just because there are better leads on others that can reveal more information. Lynching someone like joels won't accomplish anything since joels literally has not interacted with us beyond few empty posts.

[Dannflor]

Town should care about questions asked. Town should care if a wagon is building on them. If that's not the case, and he's actively lurking, then he is prob scum, because that is not a town strategy.

[Elleran]

Now that VC has been updated, I realized that the wagon on joels is much bigger than I thought. Is there any reason in voting to lynch joels over TheTrollie? Trollie flip would be much more informative just because there's been so much more interaction with him than with joels. A joels flip wouldn't be as helpful to us as any other flip. No one's really accused him nor defended him nor has he attacked or defended anyone else. I suppose I would just policy lynch lurkers, but not if there's been a much juicier and scummier player. I admit that joels hasn't been towny at all... but he hasn't exactly been scummier than some of our bigger suspects.

[Dannflor]

Trollie, even though it's hard to read him with his playstyle... I'm reading as null-townish. Just because I can't really see scum making those types of choices. I realize that's a bit WIFOM, but it's my read.

[TheTrollie]

dannflor is also town probs

[Elleran]

dannflor is also town probs

Why?

Why don't you respond to anything happening around you?

[DeathRowKitty]

Is there any reason in voting to lynch joels over TheTrollie?

I find joel is scummier. I assume your answer to the reverse question would be something that boils down to you finding TT scummier.

I'm not really leaning either way on TT right now, which is probably because I've barely skimmed most of his posts. They're loud and they disturb my inner peace. Yes, I value my inner peace very highly.

[Kthxbye]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Joel

I'm a man of my word.

My town read on Joel has gone away now that he hasn't posted in ages. He's hasn't posted in any game since the 3rd though. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up replacing out.

[Elleran]

I assume your answer to the reverse question would be something that boils down to you finding TT scummier.

Yes, which is the reason why I'm asking why some others think otherwise. I feel Trollie to be scummier than joels for the reasons I stated already.

[DeathRowKitty]

Post 306 seemed to be implying that TheTrollie was a better lynch largely because you felt his lynch would give us more information than a joel lynch. I guess I should have said this explicitly in my previous post, but my somewhat tongue-in-cheek reply that I prefer the joel wagon because I think he's scummier than TheTrollie was meant to be an implicit counterpoint to which wagon would give us more information.

[TheTrollie]

dannflor is also town probs

Why?

Why don't you respond to anything happening around you?

whats happening around me?

[q21]

MOD

I know its only been 60 hours, but can you prod joels since he's at L-2?

dannflor is also town probs

Why?

My best guess is that he thinks Danflor is town because Danflor said he thought TT was town. Buddying up to the guy he might get some support from = a little scummy.

[DeathRowKitty]

@Trollie
Regarding this, now that Om has replaced out, was there anything specific you were hoping to see in Om's posts that would help to betray his alignment? Also, were you fully caught up at that point? It seems like you were, but it's hard to tell because you skipped straight from commenting on the first few pages to posting only on current events and never addressed pages 5-9 or so.

[Elleran]

dannflor is also town probs

Why?

Why don't you respond to anything happening around you?

whats happening around me?

You haven't responded to post 296.

Also, what are your thoughts on Slandaar? Don't just say "Slandaar is XXX" and actually explain yourself.

[Dannflor]

dannflor is also town probs

Why? What reasoning made you come to this? What was your line of thought? Is this all gut or do you have actual evidence for this? I hate it when people post reads like this, especially on me. As I've said before, it's just so unreadable.

[Slandaar]

I don't like explaining townreads.

Only thing with Joel is the evil tower comment as you can see it coming from scum trying to play the 'scum wouldn't say that' card while from town, as a joke? eh maybe. To look town ie; 'scum wouldn't say this so i will look town' this also can apply but I think is less likely from newer players which Joel obviously is.

Basically its pretty WIFOMy but the principle is that because hes initiating a game of wifom to look town (which as a joke is the actual idea even when he doesn't realise it) its not a good post.

Lack of content doesn't mean people are scum; if it did all scum have to do to win mafia games is post more content than everyone else which isn't hard.

Now, the fact he hasn't voted is fairly town because he isn't trying to fit in with everyone else.

So, the wagon isn't good. Its not impossible for him to be scum but the case on him is pretty weak.

Who is scum on the wagon? kthx.

My town read on Joel has gone away now that he hasn't posted in ages. He's hasn't posted in any game since the 3rd though. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up replacing out.

Just read that. 'I don't think hes town because he hasn't posted but he hasn't posted onsite' (after the but should completely invalidate the whole statement)

Lynch Elleran.

[JasonWazza]

Nachomamma8 replaces Rondar (still searching for Om)

[TheTrollie]

@Trollie
Regarding this, now that Om has replaced out, was there anything specific you were hoping to see in Om's posts that would help to betray his alignment? Also, were you fully caught up at that point? It seems like you were, but it's hard to tell because you skipped straight from commenting on the first few pages to posting only on current events and never addressed pages 5-9 or so.

I just finished a newbie game with him and he scumslipped like 6 times.

dannflor is also town probs

Why? What reasoning made you come to this? What was your line of thought? Is this all gut or do you have actual evidence for this? I hate it when people post reads like this, especially on me. As I've said before, it's just so unreadable.

Trollie, even though it's hard to read him with his playstyle... I'm reading as null-townish. Just because I can't really see scum making those types of choices. I realize that's a bit WIFOM, but it's my read.

cuz this is town.

dannflor is also town probs

Why?

Why don't you respond to anything happening around you?

whats happening around me?

You haven't responded to post 296.

Also, what are your thoughts on Slandaar? Don't just say "Slandaar is XXX" and actually explain yourself.

This is the post ur referring to:

so it cant be that he thinks im town?

Sure he can. I would like to know why, though.

This was his post that defended you:

Trollie is town.

Does this convince you? Because it most certainly does not convince me.

What in the actual fuck did you want me to say to this?

And slandaar is town because I know slandaar town.

I don't like explaining townreads.

Nachomamma8 replaces Rondar (still searching for Om)

[TheTrollie]

Nachomamma8 replaces Rondar (still searching for Om)

YAY

[TheTrollie]

Slandaar is town because of his activity and because hes being smart and is on the offensive

DRK is town because he is TOWN AS FUCK

Dannflor is town because his posts read as genuine and there is this vulnerability to his posts that dannflor scum would not let show

[TheTrollie]

q21 is probably town

joel is probtown for explicityly avoiding RVS