Mini 1420: The Beginning Of The End (Game Over)

[Ztife]

Mod can we ask for a slight extention? Due to the sudden replacement I suppose

[JasonWazza]

VOTE COUNT 2.16

L-1

[5] q21: Ztife, DeathRowKitty, Nachomamma8, Goodmorning, Kthxbye,
[2] Goodmorning: q21, Slandaar,
[1] Ztife: Jennifer,
[1] Kwll: Malakittens,

Not Voting: Kwll,

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

Deadline:

(expired on 2013-02-25 23:57:13)

Mod can we ask for a slight extention? Due to the sudden replacement I suppose

I will grant a

1 day extension

[Slandaar]

Unvote Q21 untill massclaim ends

Why hasn't GM claimed yet? this is ridiculous.

Jennifer actually is probably town she can claim last the other 3;

DRK/GM/Kwll

Need to just claim or get lynched.

[Slandaar]

It is entirely possible for town to have tracker and cop

I am conftown at this point btw

Kthx has been quiet recently hes probably scum (said by the guy with the highest post count in game just fyi kthx)

[q21]

Okay, so the bullshit case has dragged me to L-1. Wow, you guys suck at this game, except the scum, they're really good.

I'm the cop. Night 1 I investigated Kthxbye due mostly to his hammer and got a Town result.

We should lynch GM.

Lies.

Im tracker, and I doubt there's a cop. Visited jennifer last night and got a NIL result.

LYNCH THIS SCUM. VIG DON"T CLAIM.

I don't see scum counter claiming under the current circumstances and Ztife's often noncommittal play is in line with a role that can find shit out at night. My feeling is that there will be no vig claim because the second night kill came from an SK. The massclaim should be completed in order to determine this.

A few things have moved around thanks to the activity since my last post. Here be my current reads.

Scum
Goodmorning
Malakittens
Nachomamma

Null
kwll
Jennifer

Probtown
DRK
Ztife

Town
Slandaar
Kthxbye
q21

[Jennifer]

Since people want Goodmorning to claim next, I'll share what I know. Goodmorning and I are neighbors. Neighbors, not masons, so I don't know GM's alignment, and I also don't know if she has any other abilities. This is why I didn't want to lynch GM, as I had another avenue to examine.

GM should confirm whether she has any additional powers and Kwll should claim now.

[Jennifer]

Forgot to do this.

UNVOTE:

[Kthxbye]

Unvote Q21 untill massclaim ends

Why hasn't GM claimed yet? this is ridiculous.

Jennifer actually is probably town she can claim last the other 3;

DRK/GM/Kwll

Need to just claim or get lynched.

I agree with this
UNVOTE:

It is entirely possible for town to have tracker and cop

I am conftown at this point btw

Kthx has been quiet recently hes probably scum (said by the guy with the highest post count in game just fyi kthx)

1. It's not entirely possible unless scum are stacked with an RB and GF at least. It would take a very strong PR heavy scum team to justify 2 investigative roles
2. Why? Hell, if you actually believe that both are not lying, I'm more confirmed than anyone.
3.

Since people want Goodmorning to claim next, I'll share what I know. Goodmorning and I are neighbors. Neighbors, not masons, so I don't know GM's alignment, and I also don't know if she has any other abilities. This is why I didn't want to lynch GM, as I had another avenue to examine.

GM should confirm whether she has any additional powers and Kwll should claim now.

What are your thoughts on GM based off private convo? Is something not adding up (like GM's play in this game) in your private talks?

1. goodmorning_____________Neighbor (w/ Jennifer)
2. Kthxbye_________________VT
3. Ztife ___________________Tracker
4. Slandaar________________Doc
5. Dannflor________________VT
6. Malakittens Psyche Om_____VT
7. Nachomamma8 Rondar_____VT
8. DeathRowKitty___________
9. Kwll joelsdaman1_________
10. Elleran_________________VT
11. Jennifer________________Neighbor (w/GM)
12. TheTrollie_______________VT
13. q21____________________cop

[Jennifer]

What are your thoughts on GM based off private convo? Is something not adding up (like GM's play in this game) in your private talks?

Null. My only direct experience with GM is another game that is still ongoing. We talked a little, but not much, last night. I don't have a scum read on her. My main hesitation at putting her in the town slot is the fact that we're neighbors. I tried reading up on neighbors as much as possible to figure out if it means auto-scum and it doesn't (seems the consensus is that it's only when you have at least 3 in a neighborhood that 1 is likely def scum).

I'm starting to suspect Psyche/Mala for scum (and weclome, Mala! Thanks for replacing in!) Psyche was definitely charismatic and fun to read, but I think that part of that flair was masking scumminess. There was one part that jumped out at me where people were asking Psyche to re-state his case, and he wouldn't .. which seemed odd. Because even if he didn't want to pull up his old post, he should have able/wanting to simply restate it, at least in a simplified format and he hadn't.

But before voting as we've come this far, I want to get claims from everyone (waiting on Kwll, DRK, and conf from GM) and then try to piece it together with the roles/people's posts.

[Kthxbye]

He actually did redo the case. He posted it in a wall then posted it again in bullet format.

You can personally correlate your read of GM based off your other game, you just can't come up with explanations for your reads or links to it.

What was talked about last night? Shared reads? Thoughts on who to go after today? Don't quote but be general if you can/want to.

[DeathRowKitty]

Holy Magikarp this game exploded. I'll comment on it a bit later

and I won't fall asleep in the middle of the day and forget about the game this time

Since we've apparently decided to massclaim, I'm VT.

[Kthxbye]

1. goodmorning_____________Neighbor (w/ Jennifer)
2. Kthxbye_________________VT
3. Ztife ___________________Tracker
4. Slandaar________________Doc
5. Dannflor________________VT
6. Malakittens Psyche Om_____VT
7. Nachomamma8 Rondar_____VT
8. DeathRowKitty___________VT
9. Kwll joelsdaman1_________
10. Elleran_________________VT
11. Jennifer________________Neighbor (w/GM)
12. TheTrollie_______________VT
13. q21____________________cop

[Kthxbye]

1. goodmorning_____________Neighbor (w/ Jennifer)

2. Kthxbye_________________VT

3. Ztife ___________________Tracker
4. Slandaar________________Doc

5. Dannflor________________VT

6. Malakittens Psyche Om_____VT
7. Nachomamma8 Rondar_____VT
8. DeathRowKitty___________VT
9. Kwll joelsdaman1_________

10. Elleran_________________VT

11. Jennifer________________Neighbor (w/GM)

12. TheTrollie_______________VT

13. q21____________________cop

^This is what we know for sure (minus my green from ya'lls PoV)

Tracker could = partial truth as in scum tracker. Cop could = fake claim. Without a Vig claim, we have an SK. With an SK and all the VT's, we prolly have a weak PR game meaning one of Q or Z is a liar face. We also would have a probable 2 man scum team.

[Jennifer]

@Kthx, do you mind keeping your name in black for now .. although I'm leaning town on you now, it's still not conf town until/unless Q flips town cop.

GM and I didn't talk much, in part because I was getting ready for vacation. We both wondered how to use a neighborhood and commented on your hammer (I found it scummier).

We need

Kwll

to claim now to complete the picture.

[DeathRowKitty]

First-off, massclaim was still stupid. At this point we hope to shit that scum that doesn't have a roleblocker because that would mean we just screwed our power roles over entirely.

What I was going to say yesterday (IRL yesterday) if I'd actually posted was that, in my 1-2-years-out-of-date-knowledge-of-site-meta, doctor and scum are, in order, the two most common fakeclaims, and also happen to be two powerful roles that don't often get put into minis together (and that, last I checked, people were moving away from putting cops in minis at all). Then I was going to say that q21's "Wow, you guys suck at this game, except the scum, they're really good." inside his claim post was scummy as fuck. My memory might just be faulty, but I don't think I've ever seen someone say something like that in a claim post and be town. That's why I didn't unvote after his claim.

His day 2 posts don't contain anything I would consider to be in conflict with a night 1 town investigation of Kthx (the thing meowakittens said was in conflict with his claimed investigation was not actually at all in conflict with it), so at the very least, that checks out.


Now that we've basically outed all our roles, here's how things break down balance-wise:

The old 2goon vs 5 townies + doc + cop semi-open newbie setup was incredibly town-sided. In case anyone is unfamiliar with the F11 newbie setup, I've included links to its wiki article on every other word of this sentence. Basically, scum would know before town what the setup was and still got mauled when that setup came up. Taking away the semi-open nature of the setup to put it into a closed game probably doesn't change things much. It might help scum a bit depending on believability of claims. Adding 1 scum and 3 townies to extend to 13p tilts the game toward scum's favor. Adding in a tracker, a vig, and neighbors....yeah, that tilts the game crazy amounts into town's favor. Even with a potential mafia roleblocker/rolecop/whatever, that is a HUGE amount of town power. Needless to say, assuming we actually have a vig, at least one of the cop and doc is lying (removing tracker from that setup would not be enough to balance the game...removing the doctor might balance the game if scum have a lot of power). If we don't have a vig, then....I don't really know how balance in a 1-2-10/1-3-9 setup works out. Do people actually use serial killers in mini normals? They used to be really uncommon.

---

TIL: you can put subscripts (and superscripts) in posts. Expect unnecessary math in my later posts to abuse this feature.


Meowakittens':

DRK's post 84 has given me yet another scum ping. Mainly due to keeping reads close to the chest which could future give a great reason to hop votes.

I never said what that read was. In hindsight, I actually find that kinda funny. I'm like 95% sure I was referring to joel at the time.

I only actually responded to that part for transparency purposes. I don't feel a need to respond to anything else in it because I don't even understand what position you were taking on me in that post. I mean, I catch from your reads list and your posts afterwards that you're calling me scum, but without that, I wouldn't have been sure. Also, my name abbreviates to

DRK

. I don't care much what people call me as long as it's recognizable, but I'm not DeathKittyRow or DeathBowKitty Meow~

---

Irrelevant now, but I really wish we'd listened to this. For more than one reason.

I am conftown at this point btw

I would like to go on record as saying that you have no clue what "conftown" means.



Regarding the neighborhood thing:

Neighborhoods of two players are "supposed to" be 50-50 chance of town-town or town-mafia (gives ~ even odds of hitting scum in or out of a neighborhood). I want to hear GM's take on Jennifer based on neighborhood stuff at some point. Neighbor is a deceptively powerful role. Reads established via 1-on-1 nighttalk can be very valuable.

---

As kind of a final aside, there are certain things that I have been and still kind of am avoiding commenting on - there are things that don't need to be said today and massclaim has made that even more complicated.

[q21]

Neighbours claim got me thinking: If kwll doens't claim vig then one of GM and Jennifer is an SK. Just the way I read that situation.

[Kthxbye]

I might as well put DRK in green with his last post. If that was a scum post, I'd be very surprised/impressed....

[Ztife]

GM's refusal to claim earlier (stupid lynch etc.) might suggest that she's Vig. We'll have to wait and see.

Doc Vig Tracker with a PR scum (possibly RB) sounds alright balanced. Im not too sure how neighbours would add into the mix.

Vig VT as neighbours? Sounds like it will tilt towards town's favour.
SK VT as neighbours? Not too sure.

I can't really see how slaander's play is helping, not getting his logic and not seeing how he's posts help. Its so bad that im starting to think it could be a cop/tracker/vig setup with no docs...
Whatever the case is tracker and cop is HIGHLY unlikely and therefore q21 should be lynched.

[Kthxbye]

You do realize that if we lynch q, he flips cop, and you don't die, you will be lynched tomorrow right?

[Slandaar]

GM posting history = scum

[Slandaar]

I can't really see how slaander's play is helping, not getting his logic and not seeing how he's posts help. Its so bad that im starting to think it could be a cop/tracker/vig setup with no docs...
Whatever the case is tracker and cop is HIGHLY unlikely and therefore q21 should be lynched.

Look

GM's refusal to claim earlier (stupid lynch etc.) might suggest that she's Vig. We'll have to wait and see.

Useless speculation

Doc Vig Tracker with a PR scum (possibly RB) sounds alright balanced. Im not too sure how neighbours would add into the mix.

Noone has claimed vig hence; pointless.

Vig VT as neighbours? Sounds like it will tilt towards town's favour.

Really? Where do you get this idea from?

SK VT as neighbours? Not too sure.

Well here is a tip; town doesn't have only 2 PR so if noone claims vig guess what? tracker/doc/cop is the setup with a hood.

If you are going to suggest my posting is bad at least post something useful please.

It takes 2 lines; if noone claims vig the 3 pr are conftown lynch GM
If someone claims vig, investigate claim then lynch Q.
Not rocket science

[Malakittens]

You do realize that if we lynch q, he flips cop, and you don't die, you will be lynched tomorrow right?

Way to attempt to set up a lynch in advance.

___

Uh, Q21, would you like to explain why you have me as a scum read.

[Malakittens]

Was a huge jump. Considering you had my previous slot owner (Psyche as probtown) and then just randomly put me at the top of your scum list without explanation.

[Kthxbye]

Really mala? Only defense? No comments on setup?

[Malakittens]

I'm known not to do setup analysis comments as I feel like that helps the scum out more than the town. So yeah no I won't be speculating on the setup.