Why?
Mini 1420: The Beginning Of The End (Game Over)
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Slandaar
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In post 24, Dannflor wrote:
Well eventually I'd like everyone to post and give there reads and input.
What kind of reads do you think one would have this early?
What did you want my input on? I obviously didn't post it in my previous post yet you didn't follow up?-
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What kind of response is this? Thoughtless is the answer.
If he wants me to post there must be a reason behind it; it was 1 hour into game start so why does he want me to post? does he think I am not going to post without him voting me? (obviously not)
In post 88, Om wrote:
In post 38, Slandaar wrote:Do you think voting me will increase the chance that I will post?
It should. Because I'm seriously not liking whatever you've posted so far and it reeks scummy.
This response makes no sense; see top comment and how what I say relates to it.
Why is it more likely I will post if I am being voted? Do Explain.
In post 88, Om wrote:
In post 53, Slandaar wrote:GoodMorning; Do you like playing town? Do you like playing scum? which is your favourite? why?
And to top it off with pointless RQS questions?
GG
Vote: Slandaar
Wasn't Random, Wasn't Pointless, if it was RQS I would have asked everyone.
Your fake scumhunting is easy to see through.
GG as you say
VOTE: Om-
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In post 97, Om wrote:
To get your participation and get read off you since you two have played with each other before, maybe? I do that with people I've played with as well.The very fact that you go and overreact to it by asking 'why'on RVS stage raises my eyebrow.
OK so Om is saying; there is a reason, I ask for it, but apparently asking someone why is overreacting.
In case its not obvious the main reason I was questioning Dann hard is because;
Which when our games are 1 town 1 scum is just wrong and so I wanted to engage him.
What Om has failed to mention though is the fact Dann did not give the answer he is suggesting and more fumbled about which should have interested him if he were town.
In post 97, Om wrote:
Ask yourself that, you sure as hell posted something worth whenever you received vote. Hell; your ISO has posts only replying to votes on you, except your 53. Which is practically consist of random useless questions. And yes, they are till I see what's their point.
I posted something when I saw game had started and then the next morning which is a whole 8 Hours after your post so nice try; especially when game has been running less than 24 hours.
Now you can explain it without trying to divert.
I say; its not random
Om; IT IS IT IS!!!
If Om were town he would have asked the point not just reply with this nonsense.
Here let me explain it; GM's first post comes off as excited lots of jokeyness not taking things too serious it can also be seen as nervousness, now this can be for many reasons, I was looking at why.
What were the questions for; short version: the fact is her favourite alignment and why she likes it can play a huge part in excited and nervousness hence the questions.
I have not completely decided on which it is yet.
Argue that isn't scumhunting Om.
Good argument. Trying to use a buzzword to discredit me.
I can't see anything in what hes saying its all just nonsense overreacting is his main argument? I overreact by saying 'why?' ? that is his argument? yet he was so strongly worded in his vote. If he argued I hadn't commented on major wagons that would have been one thing instead his case is I was scumhunting.
Ftr; Neither Om or I has posted about the major wagons.
He is scum. Lynch him.-
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Dann basically lied in his post, I am obviously not going to just ignore that which is the only reaction Om thinks is town?
Does not compute.
In post 102, Om wrote:
I would've been more surprised if he actually did reply to you on those. It was a RVS vote. Something similar to what I did to Trollie and I wouldn't be answering if he actually questioned me for accusing him of using underhanded plan. That's just
What? He did reply.
The difference here is his vote on me made no sense it is a pure contradiction to meta the vote on om however wasn't.
In post 102, Om wrote:
And you completely avoided to say anything about major wagon (trollie one) before your 53 and went after GM for what? Joking?
Ignoring the GM stuff; What did you expect me to say about a Trollie wagon with no reasoning behind it?
In post 102, Om wrote:
Looks like you haven't played with GM yet. And, no it still isn't scumhunt. Tell me how her answers helps you get anything regarding her alignment, because it seriously doesn't.
What basis do you have to suggest I am wrong?
Explain to me this; if her post is nervous how does that not point to scum?
I won't go further because there is no need, you are just making stuff up you obviously have no basis behind what you say.
In post 102, Om wrote:
Before voting you I was leading the major wagon, so I'm not sure what you want me to comment on as I find you scummy enough to get all of my attention so far.
Leading the Major wagon is a stretch to say the least; You voted randomly and came back to it being the leading wagon.
In post 102, Om wrote:
This does prove my earlier point about you not commenting on anything else except votes on you.
Well there is 53 as you said. 'He didn't except here where he did...'-
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In post 134, Elleran wrote:
Okay, the second part about town not needing excuses or reasons to vote people is a complete BS. So you're telling me that I can say "I find XXX scummy. Vote: XXX" and people won't question me? No way. Not after the first page maybe. Town DOES look for excuses and reasons. In this game, excuses and reasons are what drive people to act, not withholding information or baseless claims.
No
Town does not look for reasons to vote someone; Town looks for scum
The difference is quite huge.-
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In post 22, Kthxbye wrote:I have to say this is the most boring start to any game I've ever played in. How are we to hunt for scum when nobody posts...?
Above: From a (recent) game he was town where this is post 22 in 8 hours, which isn't that slow.
In post 152, Kthxbye wrote:7 pages? Really?! Sigh, I'll get to this game when I can.
It doesn't seem the same guy does it?
Then check his posting history and it becomes even more apparent.-
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In post 184, Kthxbye wrote:
Someone's mad I killed him and won the game with my Vig ability.
3 main reason's my play this game vs other games I'm in is the game you linked was my first game back from a very long break. Second, this game blew the hell up out of nowhere and I haven't had the time to get into this one. The last reason is something I'm not going into right this second but it's there. Anyway, like I said before, I'll come play here soon as I catch up.
Are you suggesting you are as engaged as you were there? I see you are not by the way you made excuses. So why then are you trying to suggest although my case is completely accurate that I only made it because of last game and not because you infact are not playing how I would expect from town you?
In post 184, Kthxbye wrote:
To answer a question directed at me somewhere,I think Joel's noob/VI. In the game Slandaar posted, we caught noob-scum (well, I caught) D1 and I don't get the same vibe from Joel. That's why I call him town.
Here we see kthx applying meta of a different player to Joel to read Joel which is obviously laughable.
'I don't get the same vibe I got from X who was scum as I do from Y so Y is town'-
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In post 151, Elleran wrote:@Slandaar: Town looks for reasons to vote. Here's my logic:
1) Town looks for scum.
You got it.
In post 151, Elleran wrote:
2)To vote on the supposed-scum, town formulates an argument.
3) For the argument to be valid, it must be grounded upon an evidence and reason.
4) Without reason, the vote is invalid.
Therefore, town is looking for reasons. No exceptions.
???
So, I found a supposed scum and am now formulating an argument as to why I am going to vote them?
Town looks for scum they do not look for reasons to vote supposed-scum.
Here is a prime example; I think Elleran is scum because: gut.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elleran
Is my vote invalid? Find out in the next VC!-
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In post 217, Elleran wrote:
So let me get this straight. You don't look for reasons to suspect anyone to be scum? You just magically 'know' whether someone's a scum or not without any evidence or information?
Gut and magically knowing are pretty similar.
I didn't say I don't scumhunt. I said; towns thought is not to look for the reason it is simply to look for scum. Gut is a great example that showcases the not looking for a reason but looking for scum.-
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In post 215, Om wrote:
In post 101, Slandaar wrote:Good argument. Trying to use a buzzword to discredit me.
K
Exactly. Your argument was terrible. The point was to show you (I already knew), your reaction was pretty bad.-
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In post 220, Elleran wrote:
And I'm telling you that town finds scums by looking reasons why someone seems to be scum. Town's thought IS to look for reasons why someone would be scum. You do this because looking for scum without reason isimpossible. Why even say 'gut' when you can just say 'I flipped a coin and it said that you were scum'? Even gut feeling comes from reading people's posts and getting vibes. Why do you even bother reading this thread at all if you're just going to say 'gut' without even saying where or why you're getting your gut feeling?
I don't look for reasons.
Here I will show this very simply;
1. When you are town, you look for reasons why someone is scum.
OR
2. When you are town you look for scum any reasoning just comes to you naturally.
Which do you think is correct?-
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This is scum.
'You won't get it right nanananananana'-
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In post 215, Om wrote:
In post 101, Slandaar wrote:Good argument. Trying to use a buzzword to discredit me.
K
This is also scum.
He failed the reaction test horrendously.-
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In post 250, Elleran wrote:Please, enlighten us more about the game. Who do you think are the scums? I'm dying to know.
In post 250, Elleran wrote:
As opposed to asking Trollie for a list of everyone who he thinks is town? I don't think so. It's so much easier for scum to come up with a list of who he thinks is town than for a list of who he thinks is scum.
As we can see Elleran in quote 1 is being sarcastic, in quote 2 he is defending himself by suggesting there was actual reasoning behind his question.
There obviously wasn't
Hes scum
Lynch.-
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I don't like explaining townreads.
Only thing with Joel is the evil tower comment as you can see it coming from scum trying to play the 'scum wouldn't say that' card while from town, as a joke? eh maybe. To look town ie; 'scum wouldn't say this so i will look town' this also can apply but I think is less likely from newer players which Joel obviously is.
Basically its pretty WIFOMy but the principle is that because hes initiating a game of wifom to look town (which as a joke is the actual idea even when he doesn't realise it) its not a good post.
Lack of content doesn't mean people are scum; if it did all scum have to do to win mafia games is post more content than everyone else which isn't hard.
Now, the fact he hasn't voted is fairly town because he isn't trying to fit in with everyone else.
So, the wagon isn't good. Its not impossible for him to be scum but the case on him is pretty weak.
Who is scum on the wagon? kthx.
In post 311, Kthxbye wrote:
My town read on Joel has gone away now that he hasn't posted in ages. He's hasn't posted in any game since the 3rd though. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up replacing out.
Just read that. 'I don't think hes town because he hasn't posted but he hasn't posted onsite' (after the but should completely invalidate the whole statement)
Lynch Elleran.-
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In post 346, Elleran wrote:
I understand that you haven't updated your case against Om in awhile because he hasn't posted (and is getting replaced). Makes sense.
K
In post 346, Elleran wrote:
You posted stuff against Kthx, some stuff which I find reasonable. I actually see kthx being scum due to his recent "let's jump on a wagon and kill whoever is convenient" attitude.
K
But there is one as you imply here.
So, why were you suggesting I have not explained?
In post 346, Elleran wrote:
You have yet to answer my question regarding why you think Trollie is town even though I've been actively asking since post 292.
I answered. My answer is this; I do not like explaining townreads.
In post 346, Elleran wrote:
Your last attack against me was:
which I've answered in post 292. You just keep dodging my questions and press that I'm scum without giving any rebuttals. What else am I supposed to conclude other than that you have no way to defend your cases?
OK Let me make it clear for you; I do not accept your 'answer' therefore I have nothing to 'defend' I don't need to argue with you about it. My opinion is X, you say blah blah to try to explain X, I can either buy it or not, I did not.-
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Massclaims are inherently protown and with 3 VT dead 1 day off lylo potentially it is clearly the time to massclaim.
The fact 3 VT are dead increases;
The conftown/pool ratio from claiming
The Chance PR is shot by vig/scum tonight
So claiming we are.
And your position in the claiming order just got a lot worse.
Vig claims first.-
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In post 514, DeathRowKitty wrote:A massclaim right now does absolutely 100% nothing except out PRs for scum to take aim at and it is not happening.
OK so DRK is scum.
He is basically trying to stand up for whats generally considered standard while clearly not thinking about the situation ie;
It does many things, nothing is beyond a lie.
if we have 3/4 conftown from PR's that increases chance of lynching scum today along with the fact the vig won't shoot a PR tonight. These are both huge benefits.
If we do not massclaim and scum hit a PR (they could have rolecop etc increasing these odds) and vig hits one. Well why didn't we massclaim today again? The whole situation is risk/reward and this is the time to claim by my calculations. Losing one PR tonight to the vig/scum is the same as letting the scum know who the PR's are to shoot tonight it is LITERALLY THE SAME THING and the odds of that happening are actually fairly high scum having a 3/7 or 3/6 without PR considerations if not 4/7 4/6 then vig is 2/8 or 3/8 ... this means if we don't lynch scum today odds we lose a PR best case is 3/7 and 1/4 which is eh like 16/28
SO OVER HALF THE TIME WE LOSE A PR BEST CASE SCENARIO
Best case. That is.
Worst case is;
4/6 3/8
OH THIS WILL BE BAD FOR YOU DRK
REALLY BAD
WORST CASE IE WE MISLYNCH(Not a PR that kind of defies the point) TODAY MEANS WE LOSE A PR TONIGHT
3/4 of the time
GOOD ODDS YA?
Obviously the other thing that can happen is scum fakeclaim into a town PR and get lynched. Obviously good too and with quite a few alive it means their potential rolecops have less info etc. They can fakeclaim something and then we know there is scum in the group of PR's it will be obvious who as long as there is a vig.
Nothing indeed.
VOTE: DRK
(PS: I hope my math is right)-
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Eh I lost part of my post when as I relogged in and had to save it well whatever
Basically I was saying that because we lose PR so much anyways by claiming we increase the odds to lynch scum today and vig scum tonight at the cost of scum 100% shooting a PR tonight
This trade is very very fair and is definitely good
You want to run vs 75% odds anyways? may as well trade it for a 3/7 of lynching scum today over 3/10 right?-
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In post 528, DeathRowKitty wrote:In post 526, Slandaar wrote:I already said its a trade of odds and due to the ridiculously high odds we lose a PR anyway its a fantastic trade to narrow odds of lynch/vig scum.
Okay, okay, here's a scenario for you:
we run someone up to L-1.
They claim.
If they claim VT, MC wouldn't have done anything.
If they claim a PR, well wow, we just got the scummiest person to claim first.
It's like, amazing. It's almost as if massclaim doesn't help us at all and you didn't think this through at all from a town perspective. It's so weird.
So, assuming the person is lynched, the vig then has the 3/8 or 2/8 to hit PR.
How doesn't that help again? it also increases odds to vig scum in said scenario by removing the pr from the pool...
Did you think this through DRK? no.-
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In post 529, DeathRowKitty wrote:But let's ignore our argument for now, we can finish it later today, okay? There's just one thing I want to hear from you:
Why a rolecop?
Because its the one that changes the odds of scum nking PR. None of the others do and that was what I was talking about. What does a RB do to affect scum shooting a PR? it doesn't.-
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In post 523, DeathRowKitty wrote:
After his iso #4, in which he talks to Dannflor, plus or minus like 2 posts where he gives a sentence in direct response to someone, he doesn't talk to ANYONE except Om, kthx, and Elleran for the ENTIRE rest of the day. Oh yeah, you were definitely actually scumhunting Slandaar.Most definitely
So, my top scum suspects D1 ie; the 3 named people I interacted with the most and I wasn't scumhunting?
DRK even says I interacted with other just not to the same extent; guess why? because I was interrogating my main men ie scumhunting.-
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In post 535, DeathRowKitty wrote:Ummm...
I really hope I don't have to guide you through why scum having a roleblocker would make massclaim even worse.
OK this is the best way to explain this; if town have an rb and scum don't this then swings hugely in favour of massclaim
There is no way to know such a thing
Therefore the possibilities like this balance out throughout the many variations of setup this could be.
The fact is there is a vig/sk and by using this info we can see massclaim is good.-
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In post 537, DeathRowKitty wrote:If by "interacted with other", you mean "gave a one sentence response to something that had just been posted in one or two of your posts", then sure, you interacted with other people.
That is my posting style yes
Good Job.-
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In post 542, DeathRowKitty wrote:
Therefore, we should make arguments in favor of massclaim that use the possible existence of a scum rolecop as an important factor in why massclaim is good.
I didn't make it an important part
I included it because the fact the role exists means the odds of the scum killing PR are higher than what I said; I still used the actual odds not including it though.
So, what is your point?-
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You don't think even/odd night + gunsmith makes complete sense from a setup POV thereby making them all conftown? i mean the vigs obviously are and then the gunsmith if he claimed first its very very clear, if after its still pretty obvious unless scum fakeclaim what? cop, cops getting lynched first.
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