Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[Magister Ludi]

So excited this game finally started!

Vote: Oversoul

[Magister Ludi]

FYI to all in this game I'm going to be playing completely different than I usually do, part of the reason I wanted to alt. I'm aiming for a more subdued regfan/thor playstyle. Zen-y-ish. Ohmmmmmmmm.

Seems strange (???). Are you trying to switch it up because you are usually very hard to read when you're town? If not, then why? (and why announce it to the world?)

~~~

@Oversoul, remind me, do you usually not start with a random vote?

[Magister Ludi]

@ Tierce, what triggered this self proclaimed meta-shift, and who exactly do you expect "poor play from" and consider a "lynch pony"?

[Magister Ludi]

(I don't know, you tell me?) That wasn't my question.

It seems to me, that the primary objective of town is to be read as town and find scum. Thus, if people have a hard time reading you as town when you're town, you might realize this and change your playstyle so people can read you.(however that may be) If this isn't a problem, the question is why you're doing it (and why you announced to the thread you are "changing things", when you could simply change things internally)

~~

And by the way, do you think there has been voteable serious content in this thread yet, or not?

[Magister Ludi]

note: #31 was in response to #29.

I feel like the answer to this question should be obvious - I was already trying to apply meta to him.

Not sure what you mean here or what you're implying. Could you unpack this a little?

[Magister Ludi]

Thats an incredibly weak and inept reason to seriously vote someone, Uberninja. Do you honestly think that mispelling a word and blaming it on your phone is a scumtell?

[Magister Ludi]

@ Spyrex - There's a difference between slimy and bitchy, but you're so awesome at reading me if I believed in self-votes I'd sheep you too.

Unvote
Vote: Tammy

I've seen this sort of post come more often from scum than town. I'm talking about a jokey sort of shoulder shrug 'stop voting me' response to someone (in this case SpyreX) asking for their head and the person not really knowing what to do, and thus resorting to humor.

[Magister Ludi]

It wasn't so much that you did or didn't ask him to stop voting you, its that you responded in such a way that looked like you were more interested in joking and being chummy than anything else. And, if you are town, you should deeply (to some degree) care that another player in the game is voting you, as you would know that that vote is certainly on town.

Ok, i'll bite, what do you want me to ask you?

[Magister Ludi]

@ Tierce Several times now you've made reference to 'derpy'/etc.;

Derpy players alive too late can be dangerous for town.

constant lynch ponies

trying to save derpy players from a lynch.

while not explicitly stating who you are talking about. I expected it would be an easy answer, an easy substitution to help decipher what you're talking about, (like equating a group [SDC] and its members [player x,y,z whoever]), but you didn't provide that. You're clearly talking about someone or some people here (could be anyone, glork, me, katsuki, etc., I don't know what you think) and I see no reason you couldn't expand on that.

You also clearly want to lynch said 'derpy' players as leaving them alive too long could be dangerous, but neither your initial vote is on a policy lynch nor is your follow up, and the fact you consider a subset of players dangerous to the town (hint, potentially against your win con if you are town) and aren't talking about it bears an eyebrow raise.

And as for this quote,

Why do you think me saying who I think is a weak spot in this playerlist would benefit town?

I'm not a big fan of. How do you think clarifying a statement you make benefits scum at all?

pedit; ninjas, ninjas everywhere.

[Magister Ludi]

Because I'm seeing throwdown into smarm-defense into defensive aggression and that paints a picture I'd like dead, dead, dead.

Are you saying you'd like glork tierce or tammy dead here, because your above quote was from glork and this doesn't seem to make sense.

[Magister Ludi]

The fact that posts thus far

in which you place a vote

make me want to shoot you in the head disturbs me, but we roll with it.

We're on the same page here re: tammy and uberninja, though I edited your post a little here to my standards.

Ludi is latching onto the oddest things.

In post 69, Magister Ludi wrote:
And, if you are town, you should deeply (to some degree) care that another player in the game is voting you.

You have some experience, don't encourage that kind of BS reaction.

1. What odd things, and are they bad? If so, why?

I try and figure out people's alignments however I can. If you don't think whatever i'm doing comes from scum, i'm not sure why you're mentioning it. If you think it comes from scum, please say so. Using a word like odd feels.... weasely. It allows you to say something without really making a stance.

2. erm, what bs reaction are you talking about.

~~
p:edit

FOS: DDD

[Magister Ludi]

Actually, @ Tammy, do you think SpyreX is scum?

[Magister Ludi]

p:edit
FOS: DDD

Claiming scum, eh? Message received.

huh? Actually, trying to figure out if someone has a particular role in this game is pretty bad considering we know there is some sort of faction,

*Per Micaiah's plan, you win when one member of your faction is alive and the following roles have been removed from the game.

that needs to figure out certain roles, kill them, and sounds anti-town. Given that these whoevers sounds like bad boys, someone (you) trying to figure out who is what role is much more likely to come from a player aligned with this faction than anyone else. To me, it's almost the definition of a scum tell, which is something that's more likely to come from scum (anti-town) than town.

Yeah, it suspicious.

[Magister Ludi]

To me, the micaiah win condition of eliminating roles looked anti-town. (I'm not the strongest on flavor, but it would seem to make sense)

@ Dram, well, some less deeply than others, but a serious vote and calls for blood on you if you are town should merit something. I do agree that weird pusedo cryptic half claims and the like should probably stop.

[Magister Ludi]

In case I don't get back for the rest of the day,

ludi is bugging me at a gut level, his fingers seem to be in every pie, its like he's trying to be too good - trying to be too town, too relatable. he's being too selective about what he gets involved in

Not really sure of what you're talking about here, or why any of this makes me more likely scum than town who is excited to play a game again. I've tried to comment on what I found important here, ask questions when needed, and so I don't understand where you're going with the 'too selective' line of attack. I'd like at least that explained a little more.

[Magister Ludi]

Actually,

FOS: Alchemist

here, after scanning over his slot again.

A couple of things. Both your votes so far have been half concocted pushes on quilford and myself, where he doesn't give a strong or definite reason why he suspects that player or why anyone else should join him, instead using such words like 'bugging' 'gut' and etc. Now, I find this to be problematic by itself, but when he says in the beggining he has a new calculating meta ;

When they a see a subdued, restrained, and calculating TE posting I want them to know why.

I would expect him to, you know, actually stick to what he was saying and explain his reads.

I bolded the slimey words here;

Quil's recent post is

bugging

me because "I didn't even realise I'd done it as scum, ever" feels like a lil white lie. And who exactly were the mafia with Ghostlin in Animal Rescue: petsPick? Because I cant seem to find that info. I wanted to check the validity of Quil's claim because of my aforementioned

bugging.

Anyone else think:

Quil wrote:
@Alchemist: It's funny you ask, actually. He's been asking a lot of questions which really drew my eye, and at first I thought he could be scum trying to look involved. But I think the questions demonstrate a deeper level of comprehension than typical scum ASK ALL THE QUESTIONS kind of thing, like ShadowGirl here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=21379

Is a bit of a

weird and overly-elaborate response

? Its like he's going out of his way for Ludi to defend him/paint him in a positive light with a

self-supporting premise

(shadowgirl link).

Vote: Quilford

ludi is

bugging

me at a gut level, his fingers seem to be in every pie, its like he's trying to be too good -

trying to be too town, too relatable

. he's being too

selective

about what he gets involved in.

In addition, which is sort of funny, he accuses me of being selective, but has not himself seriously commented on either of the three large wagons so far, those being UN, Tierce, and Tammy. His one serious looking comment is the throwaway to glork that;

Glork. Your UN vote is bullshit.

It looks like he seriously, seriously, does not want to get his hand tangled up in any of this. I've tried to find, one way or another, how he feels on these three, and I've been unsuccessful other than I think Alchemist thinks UN is town (?)

~~~

In short, selective, fabricated half reasons for votes and fos's (his glork fos also makes no sense), and exceedingly neutral and sometimes non existent confrontation of the happenings of the day. To me, this looks much more likely to come from a scum playerslot so far, than town.

[Magister Ludi]

@Ludi

You want me to explain my strong gut read on you? lol pedit nice omgus

Um, no. I'm pointing out how the two people you've voted, you've done very underhanded, without really explaining what you're talking about. Note, you didn't just say 'gut'! and leave it at that, you went on to launch some bs reasons, 'trying to look to town', 'too relate-able' that don't really mean anything. It looks like you wanted to put a vote down not on the top three wagons, and then cobbled something or other together that didn't make sense to back it up.

And as for flinging buzzwords around, stop it. You had a post that I took issue with that also included a vote for me, and I'm not going to simply let it slide because you've voted me. OMGUS is bunk in my opinion. If you'd like to point out why my suspicion on you is misplaced, or wrong, i'm all ears, but trying to deflect it away under the cover of what you've done is underhanded. It easily looks like a tactic employed by scum.

So your case is I'm hypocritical and I didn't explain my gut read on you well enough to your liking.

Lolyou'rescum. Nikanor is probably scum too.

Do I really have to go tit-for-tat with Ludi right now? I dont want to.

No, its not what you've distilled it to. My case is my case, I think I was very clear.

And can you explain why you think nikanor is scum?

Is it because he called you scum, which would be the very same OMGUS that you accused me of two posts ago?

Going for the easy lynch to start off discussion is dumb since we're past that point.

Just to clarify, you think all three of the leading wagons at this time were town? It doesn't matter if it is an easy lynch if it is on scum.

Okay UN, you had your chance to explain the vote on Tammy"Town"
Unvote; Vote: UberNinja

I'm holding off on other comments until I've spoken to Pere (#firsthydra)
~AV

Reading through, it first struck me as odd that TSH would withhold comments on most things abritrarily, and then post a sentence pointing out the fact that he is withholding comment.

~~~~*~~~~

The above post by Spyre just feels like a whole lot of chatter and wise-guy backpeddaling, which he is so good at

On the alchemist front, this is a post typical of the problem I have with him. Ok, so you think he is chatting it up. So what? Is he scum because of it? Town? etc.? I don't use fluff often, but this post feels.... without a point.

Yeeeaaa Alchemist is town that aint happenin

what are we missing here?

I think that Ludi's case against Alchemist is hogwash.

I actually thought It was quite well put together and encapsulates his play here so far, and a few others do as well. I'd like to know what you disagree with.

Break.

(stop. hammer time.)

[Magister Ludi]

Ludi In the middle of the argument last night, you asked me if I thought Spyrex was scum. Why?

I wanted to know what you thought of the alignment of someone who wanted you lynched. Plus it was a way to get a read out of you at a time you seemed more interested in a 'woe-is-me' path.

[Magister Ludi]

Oh.
That's the amount of dead people, it's for the Eternal War mechanic.
Or it's very similar to the giant blue number in the corner of the ETERNAL WAR map in the game that increases everytime someone dies.
Technically once we've killed enough people we're gonna go into total chaos, Ashera is gonna awaken and we're gonna all make peace to go whoop her ass.
But that's probably not what's gonna happen here.
But yeah, it's PROBABLY a corpse counter.

Actually, I thought something similar, but more related to the Micaiah win condition of eliminating certain roles, to at least help us know how many of the 'special roles' scum have eliminated.

[Magister Ludi]

317 makes a Tammy lynch unappealing at the moment.

Unvote
Vote: Alchemist

+++ signal to noise ratio, he's got 25 (fifth most) posts and little to show for it.

[Magister Ludi]

Haze, that post isn't cutting the mustard. You spend a few sentence poking around at seemingly unconnected and trivial things, then lay down a vote on Toasty without any semblance of why.

FOS: Haze

[Magister Ludi]

Not that I'm sold one way or the other on toast's alignment, but to get this straight, you see someone (TT) voting someone else (UN) over something you proclaim as 100% contradictory, and you take issue with the reasoning for a vote? Isn't, generally, someone committing a "100% contradictory" action, worthy of a vote.

Why should a neutral join you on toasty? What about it is optimistic?

[Magister Ludi]

opps, missed a post. While you're here haze, what are your thoughts on tammy. You haven't seemed to mention her once.

[Magister Ludi]

ML why do you go out of your way to make it clear that you don't lean either way on toasty? Why are you trying to detach yourself from this in some way? Would you vote Toasty?

Probably not right now considering I have a few other people I'm more interested in. I didn't think I especially wen't out of the way or anything, I just gave you my read on him.

Also large amounts of vagueness.

I ask you to take a look at Alchemist than and potentially lay down a vote, if this is a criterion for scum.

[Magister Ludi]

I feel like there's just swaths of the game missing.

I feel the same way, but somewhere within the whirlwind of excitement and etc. I'm having here I forget the game only started yesterday

and

several people have one or zero posts

and

we have 13 pages going.

[Magister Ludi]

@ TSH

I think you are smart enough to know there is a difference here, and no try and twist my words. I take issue when someone says, "x statement is odd", and leaves it at that. For you, I clearly illuminated what I thought was odd with you statement, the fact that you were actively posting nothing for reasons undisclosed, but then also making a point to show everyone... that you weren't posting for reason's undisclosed. It struck me as off, and if you would like to debate that, please do. I would have gone with a slight TSH is scum, but given you only had two posts and I couldn't decide one way or another, I made a point to point it out so I could come back to it later.

+++ You criticize nikanor for 'being overly concerned with appearance', well that's exactly what you're , "we're not posting" thing looked like as well

ML's initial reaction to just FoS Alcheater is pretty scummy and unnecessary. Its pretty forced for so relatively early in a large game to use FoS, but it makes sense as a scum who needs to set-up multiple lynches down the line and is quite happy with is current vote on a juicy mislynch-Tammy (you're wrong SpyreX and Glork and you should feel bad.)

Actually, I use FOs's a lot. At the time of my FOS, I was using my vote on Tammy, and I can't vote two people at the same time. Using a FOS, for one, let other people know I suspect someone else and perhaps makes them examine the person, and lets the person In question know I'm serious.

I don't think it was unnecessary at all. At that time, I had already fos' DDD, and that post on alchemist came on page 10, hardly what I would call 'early'. I took the time to read what he was saying, and decided it was more likely to come from scum than town, and pointed this out.

[Magister Ludi]

Okay. What did you learn from my answer?

Well Initially I thought your answer more likely to come from town than scum. Calling someone town when they're attacking you is pretty dangerous because that means you basically have to roll with their attacks on you without trying to slime their character. That's a much easier way to defend an attack, by forcing the status of the attacking player down, then defending against their attacks while stile building their character up.

[Magister Ludi]

The quote for reference;

I'm holding off on other comments until I've spoken to Pere (#firsthydra)
~AV

~~

RE: +++ How so? I thought Hydras were meant to discuss things before posting?

What's odd about it? I don't see how the reasons are undisclosed. I disclosed my reasons - see above.

Let's debate.
~AV

Sure, discussing things before posting is one way of playing a hydra (the other, seemingly more genuine one, is to just post your reads and then let your friend come in with his). But, there really isn't even a need to comment on the fact you're not posting until you spoke with your other head. Take the Wyrd hydra. They didn't post until,... well, until they did. They didn't make an interim post that served to say "hi guys! I am here, but not posting! but I am here!!"

It looked like you wanted everyone to "know" you were around, thinking, being a good town, etc. Which I think speaks more to the scum mindset, than town, no?

[Magister Ludi]

Ludi used SPAM

Its super effective!

Alchemist used GUT!

Its not very effective...

Ludi used OMGUS and FAKEVOTE

Its not very effective...

Alchemist used TRUTH

Critical damage!

Ludi used DODGE!

Its not very effective

This is sort of insulting. I haven't spammed anything, I've tried to post and question to figure out people's alignments. None of my votes have been fake or without merit, and i've explained each one. I have several points against you. And i'd like to know which questions I've been dodging. I've answered anything you've asked.

I don't really see this post coming from town trying to figure out my alignment, (or anyone else's alignment in the game either.) You've thrown down a questionable vote (in direct contrast with your opening post promising calculation and reason), posted a whole hell of a lot without saying anything, and have accused me of things which are patently untrue.

[Magister Ludi]

@Ludi, no, I don't think it's more scummy to say what I wanted to say when I said it, but hold off on the rest (i.e. townreads, other stuff) until I've talked it through. Scumreads and the like are more time sensitive. If I'd waited until Pere got on, then the stuff that I wanted to say would have been old news, and thus I wouldn't have been able to get what I wanted out of it.
~AV

I think you've misconstrued my point here. I take issue with that fact you a.) didn't post anything, and b.) pointed out you weren't posting anything, as if to excuse yourself. Given that you have since tried to post something #355, without peregrine checking in, your statement of waiting looks even more baloney to me. I never asked you to wait until your other head got in.

At what point after 257 did you begin to think you would have to proceed to posting without consulting your other head (which you explicitly stated you would do)? It is only 18 hours between that and your 355.

you've spammed the thread in your own way.

did I hurt your feelings? are you going to play the wounded soldier now?

If by spam you mean try and figure out who is scum, ask question and comment on what I think is important, then yes I have been doing that.

I don't like the Alchemist votes. They're disingenuous and lazy.

I beg to differ. Why are you calling them disingenuous and lazy? Do you take issue with any other votes so far in the game?

- I think Ludi is scum and from what I gathered Shift agrees, Ludis posts have been very fluff/fillerish with a lot of his questions and focus not really looking as if he's scumhunting but rather just attempting to appear as if he's contributing. His push on Timeater is also terrible and comes across as an OMGUS on a weaker player that's suspecting him.

I've never played with Timeater, I have no idea if he is a weaker player or not, I'm just calling things here as I see them. I think you're off base a little here. I might have asked a few questions only in my first couple of posts, but I've used most of my post since to detail who I think is suspicious, and why.

[Magister Ludi]

Gamma's 447 is also a pretty good find. I don't think singersinger really knows what she is saying here. She puts down a vote on Tammy, and then a few hours (~15) later seemingly forgets where it is, calls tammy super town, and decides to call SpyreX, who was also on the Tammy wagon, scum, and Magua, scum, (who knows why) but doesn't shift her vote to either of them.

[Magister Ludi]

I think you should reread my posts...and then reread what exactly you think doesn't make sense...because it makes perfect sense with any logical deduction of what I meant in the first one, and what I'm telling you in the second one. As soon as Tammy isn't the leading wagon, I'd be willing to switch my vote if you know what I mean.

I don't know what you mean. Are you saying you want Tammy dead but think she is obviously town?

[Magister Ludi]

I actually prefer to do this as scum for this exact reason.

See my flip flopping but overall mainly calling Hezlucky town in Paranoia Mafia. It buys you needed time and can potentially build connections for after your death for further mislynching.

I'm not trying to discredit what you say here, but I personally don't think this is a good reason to call someone town.

Yeah, anything is possible for scum to do as well as town. But I think it would more likely come from Tammy as town than as scum. Note, Its not the sole reason I would call anyone town, but it does help contribute a little. I don't think Tammy and SpyreX are of the same scum alignment, so a potential tammy scum calling spyrex town just creates a crapload of headaches for the scum team if tammy ever flips, which tammy would probably be aware of.

~~~

Good catch by the way on the blue number going up to two. Also, give me your thoughts on the Speed Hippos that happen to be teleporting!

[Magister Ludi]

@Oversoul Well, I initially thought that M win condition came from some outside third party with some specific job of eliminating roles (like some sort of serial killer)

[Magister Ludi]

what does mhm mean?

I reread that point in the game to know what I was thinking, as well. Rereading, it should be patently clear what I was thinking. At that point, several people were claiming to be people searching for other roles, (there were two or three I believe) and I reasoned that no scum would be stupid enough to claim that they were scum (by claiming to be looking for roles), and that maybe the role was somehow tied into being town as well.

It was some little time later when someone posted that it is probably the scum win condition, a little conversation ensued, and that made sense to me.

[Magister Ludi]

I do have the town win condition. What was not clear was whether the second win condition was a third party, was scum, or was also tied into the town as well. At that point in the game you quoted, people were CLAIMING to be searching for other people, and I already explained why this made me question things. Not many games have the potential scum win condition out in the open like that. I think it was perfectly reasonable as per post ~140 in a game I know no flavor to to wonder what the second win condition was about.

(It didn't have to be a single entity, either for the third party. could be something like brotherhood without banners, the hyenas for Llama's game, etc.. A gang group)

[Magister Ludi]

Since you're going into meta Oversoul, do you think Tierce's play resembles Pony Mafia or PYP Redux mafia, both where you were town and she was scum?

And how come you never gave me your read on Speedily Teleporting Hippos (from mars tm).

[Magister Ludi]

Ludi, Timeater is a player that often drops logic and goes after gut a lot as well as throwing himself into the lime-light, it's something that makes him attacked by scum a lot more because they wrongly consider him as mslynch material which isn't actually the case because he normally town-tells enough at the end of the day to prevent the lynch.

And no the amount of real solid information or thoughts to fluff in your ISO is little.

Why are you limiting it to scum? I am town, find his play to be highly weird and scummy for which I've detailed, and have presented reasons why.

And, Can you actually prove the bolded statement above, because I am calling baloney on it. Then, I would like you to show me the multitude of other players who actually fit your standards.

It's trivial now though because I've found your last few posts specifically the talk about win-conditions ... town tells [in regards to oversoul]

This looks manufactured totally. What are you even talking about here.

[Magister Ludi]

Magister Ludi's third party hunting early rings alarm bells.

I'm really low access for the next couple of days, so I can't reply to much. I skimmed last couple pages. But this is a problem. I'm not sure at all what you're talking about here, and this seems to be the main reason you voted me. I was never third party hunting. The only passing mention I had of third party was that the second win condition could have belonged to a third party scum group, (in response to oversoul's circuitous attack) and that the regular scum win condition would hold for the scum. I seriously don't know why so many people are trying to attack me with this. I can't have been the only one confused about whether or not the second win condition was scum, and I sure as hell would not have been confused If I actually was scum and knew what the hell my win condition was.

And what are you talking about with 'early'? That whole discussion happened around page 20.

[Magister Ludi]

Hey guys. I have been down in San Diego play at a national tennis tournament all week with garbage access times and a lot going on. Sorry I haven't been around. I should be back home maybe tomorrow.

[Magister Ludi]

I checked the votecount. I wish Alchemist got more votes, but that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Unvote
Vote: Teleporting Speed Hippos

[Magister Ludi]

Alchemist's wagon isn't taking off so you vote someone with no votes on them?

Yeah, last time I had really read the game I had a problem with teleporting speed hippos, and I came back, saw no votes on them, isoed them to see if there was anything spectacular there, and lacking that I decided to put a vote down. I think they're definitely a slot that could use a little more heat.

And it is a different kettle of fish. Alchemist has had some heat on him for ~30 pages now, and if people didn't join the wagon it may be a sign that it {the wagon} won't get moved today and I'm not content to waste my vote on a wagon to nowhere'sville.

[Magister Ludi]

(As for Wyrd and Magua both claiming to be never be scum, If I remember fate was scum in Otters v Tigers etc and Magua was scum in Cylic Experiment Mafia.)

I've read through the preceding pages. A lot of what should have been said,.... has been said. Some stupidity was had in those pages.

As of now, for the GreyICE wagon, despite the fact its stuffed full of town reads of mine, I don't think is a justice wagon. I remember when Grey first posted, I was sitting around at 5-6 votes or something similar, It wouldn't have been hard to hop on and push as scum. Instead he took the time to (I assume) read a little, decide I wasn't to be voted, and go try and figure out who was scum. That struck me as town.

Toast I had down as town for his top three wagon statement etc., I thought there was some weird interplay between them as well, and reading back I thought he handled people attacking him rather well.

And MaguaoI is harder for me to give a solid because they voted me, I'm biased in thinking anyone voting me is scum pushing for a mislynch. Of any wagons with multiple votes, this is the one I would join.

(random side note, I have only hydras voting for me)

I'd still like an Alchemist lynch, but there are for sure people just skimming along that need more attention. Its another reason I like toasty, he's willing to poke at DDD and go *here's somebody*, because he honestly believes there might be scum slipping along in that slot. TSH falls in the same category for myself.

[Magister Ludi]

[Magister Ludi]

More so than anything you particularly wrote, the fact that you were willing to put in effort and believed what you said seemed town to me. Especially since I wasn't too solid on your scumminess to begin with, it helped shake my read a little more. And, there were more interesting people for me to pursue.

[Magister Ludi]

Its another reason I like toasty, he's willing to poke at DDD and go *here's somebody*, because he honestly believes there might be scum slipping along in that slot.

You really think it takes any courage to put my name down?

Yes, actually. Considering Toasty is the largest wagon, if he was scum I would easily believe he would hop ship to another large wagon or a more popular lynch wagon. You have no pressure on you, no one really thinks your scum, and its not the most popular wagon to vote. The fact that he is willing to actually poke around and try and find out scum (in this case you), seems pretty pro-town. He isn't just sheeping along.

[Magister Ludi]

Don't see maguavotes.

One scumteam makes a lot more sense than two. If there's an SK, they probably have a nonstandard win condition too.

You talked about getting short and to the point in one of your posts, could you do that in explaining what about MoI-scum I, and a few others, are misinterpreting

dddp could be scum too.

And given that you think DDD could be scum, do you think it is likely that hypo toasty-scum decided to go out of his way to bus DDD-scum out of the blue

[Magister Ludi]

meh, I didn't expect any answer one way or the other, (sorry If you didn't like the question, but I wanted an answer) I just wanted to get where your thinking is at. I don't think it is unreasonable on day one to have a few scum reads, but then if all of them gang vote the same guy maybe you reevaluate your read on that particular player. Things change, etc.

[Magister Ludi]

I wasn't implying that was the case, I was using a hypothetical to illustrate a point. (which in my mind is the low likelyhood of toasty scum voting dddp scum) Which was that sometimes you don't need a flip to change to base interactions off of.

I think the long and short of what I was trying to do here was say that if you think DDDP is scum, maybe toasty voting him is a town-tell and you could come away slowly from your toasty scum read and vote someone else! I really don't think toasty is scum here, and don't want to see him lynched.

[Magister Ludi]

To be honest, I don't have a large bunch of scum reads on your wagon either. I'd say TSH, and then maaaaaaybe DDD and Haze (and uberninja is just derpy).

[Magister Ludi]

Nexus, I think a good place for your vote could be on Teleporting Hippos.

[Magister Ludi]

GreyICE, just so you can get another voice on the matter, I really don't think Katsuki is scum here, and I definitely don't think he is worthy of a day one lynch.

[Magister Ludi]

We're voting you because of blatant falsehoods like this.

Erm, neither of those statements was false, what are you talking about?

[Magister Ludi]

I really reall think Teleporting Speed Hippos is a good lynch for today.

His posts are really empty, they're not accomplishing much in the way of reads or clarity, not attempting to convince anyone of anything, (like trying to convince people to hop on toasty or etc. because they think that particular slot is scum.), and there's not many of them. I already explained why I think toasty is town, and they didn't seem to have a problem with my line of thought, so I'm not sure why they're asking someone ELSE why they think toasty is town. Plus, it looks like they just threw my name in the ring because I've been on them for a while.

And that's just their recent spat of posting.

[Magister Ludi]

Has done absolutely nothing. I do like the vote on Alchemist, but other than that the slot is pretty rancid.

[Magister Ludi]

If we're going lurker, I'd rather go after TSH (12 posts, many I dislike) vs Nexus (5 posts). Though, I suppose if it comes down to it I could jump on Nexus as well.

[Magister Ludi]

Well I have my vote on Teleporting Speed Hippos without accompaniment right now because I think the constant presence of it is enough to draw attention to the slot, which I think it needs, and provide some thimble of annoyance to the TSH hydra. I'm willing to move my vote, but I don't think at all that my vote is accomplishing nothing right now.

[Magister Ludi]

Unvote
Vote MaguaofIllusion

[Magister Ludi]

13. Magister Ludi - Scum. Very much strikes me as not wanting to rock the boat, as completely distinct from his town play.

This is part of the problem I've had (with you and others) this game.

What are you talking about, not wanting to rock the boat?

I joined the Tammy wagon maybe second or third, and helped that wagon take off. I helped start the alchemist wagon, and I got that wagon moving. I've defended my town reads, even when it might not have been popular, like defending Toasty and others. I've poked and prodded where viable, trying to get wagons going on people other's seem to be ignoring, like Haze, teleporting speed hippos, and commented critically on others, like singer and nexus. I commented on your slot as well, when they were a myriad of viable wagons on the table.

I've been pretty consistent and clear throughout the game what I'm trying to do here. I think I've dealt well with the people who are calling me scum for all sorts of reasons I can't understand or that make no sense, most of the people who think I am scum have chalked it up to 'gut' 'not playing to potential' 'not rocking the boat'. I don't even know what any of those mean. (I think i've been very patient with alchemist's insistent nonsense towards me) Not rocking the boat? I think i've done plenty to help shape this game, and specifically on this point Magua, I'd like some elucidation on what you mean.

~~~

At this point in the game, we've entered a weird sort of zone that is making it hard to get things done. We have a solid block of players that most people consider town, and where ever they go will probably go a long way to getting a lynch down. We've also got players pseudo feuding, and they lock themselves into voting that is hard for other players to break them out of, for whatever reason. And then we have players who have decided for whatever reason, despite this being a really interesting day, that they are bored, or the day is dragging, or they don't need to post, and so they are lurking by or not posting much.

Combined, it isn't easy to get big liquid wagons going. The MoI wagon has taken a long time coming, and it's only at L-3 or so, and it actually doesn't look like it's going to be a lynch. I'm not as sold on their scumminess as I am on others, but I was willing to vote the wagon on the basis of getting something going and getting some meaningful reactions, and lynching someone who isn't in my null section or above.

If anything, I see this day continuing down this path and then ending in some sort of compromise lynch as people get tired on someone or another (maybe myself actually), because people just want to end the day or are bored or whatever, and I don't want that to happen. I think Teleporting Speed hippos deserves a serious look from everyone. I just thought of Wyrd as well, and if people want to start talking about this slot, I don't think that would be a bad thing. I don't think Implosion is a very good lynch now, but luckily that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

~~~

As for MoI, if you want to ask me serious questions and comment about other slots and etc. I'm happy to do that. On the off chance you are town, I know your slot could be a powerful force for the town.

[Magister Ludi]

I dislike your post greatly, and I will address it in detail.

But first, I ask you, can you substantiate everything you are saying with quotes, especially pertaining to the points you are making here? I am asking you to do this because it will put on the table what you are saying, make it easier to respond, and I think a few of your accusations could go away once you can't back them up.

[Magister Ludi]

Unvote

My first thought was that Oversoul's death was tied into the little blue number thingy.

[Magister Ludi]

responding to TSH in a second,

Decided to do this for the blue numbers, all times gmt -8

Thread opens; Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:23 pm, (blue number = 0)
Post #203 (isolation #9) » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:46 am (0)
Post #312 (isolation #10) » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:19 pm (0)
Post #358 (isolation #11) » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:56 am (0)
Post #436 (isolation #12) » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:41 pm (2)
Post #509 (isolation #13) » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:45 am (2)
Post #577 (isolation #14) » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:13 pm (3)
Post #618 (isolation #15) » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:16 am (3)
Post #739 (isolation #16) » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:43 pm (3)
Post #857 (isolation #17) » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:08 pm (5)
Post #898 (isolation #18) » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:17 am (5)
Post #935 (isolation #19) » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:05 pm (6)
Post #990 (isolation #20) » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:58 pm (6)
Post #1004 (isolation #21) » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:50 pm (8)
Post #1086 (isolation #22) » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:03 am (8)
Post #1151 (isolation #23) » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:12 pm (9)
Post #1230 (isolation #24) » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:21 pm (11)
Post #1258 (isolation #25) » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:01 pm (12)
Post #1304 (isolation #26) » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:51 pm (14)
Post #1385 (isolation #27) » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:12 pm (15)
Post #1454 (isolation #29) » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:22 pm (17)

I'll crunch some stats on this, but if anyone else wants to, could be appreciated, trying to find links between number and post, or date

[Magister Ludi]

If we have post 0 also have the blue number 0, then the relation between post number and blue number has a correlation of .94, which is pretty good (1 is a straight line explanation)
If remove post 0 (0,0), relation is .96 (which is even better)

Other tests like lnreg etc return values that are much lower (around .86 and less)

Having .96 given the fact Vi can't control exactly when she posts probably means the blue number is related to the number of posts in the game.

I didn't do analysis for the time between posts.

[Magister Ludi]

I really don't think MoI name claiming is a good idea (or name claiming in general). His claim is pretty powerful, its going to be proved one way or the other, and revealing if he is on the 'hit list' or not doesn't help town.

Can we get a Ludi wagon going? Notice the wonderful "I'll post tons of numerology to prove a point that isn't important" crap he is posting. Aka non-scum hunting fluff.

VOTE: Magister Ludi

This point may be valid if I hadn't already been doing that for the rest of the game. Plus numbers are important. Plus they are fun.

[Magister Ludi]

Well I assume he's either going to die, have a huge squad of masons, or still be around day 4 or whenever and have a lot of explaining to do.

[Magister Ludi]

Response to AV

Claims in post 1445

Why do you think it's an off-chance?

1. I've seen hardly anything in a ctrl+F of your ISO to suggest you really have a strong scum read on MoI.

2. Your only real expression of their scumminess is that they voted for you, and your biased to think they must be scum.

3. That doesn't seem like the sort of conviction to make someone say it's at best an "off-chance" that they're town.

4. Especially combined with the claim you make in the very same post above that you're joining it mainly to stir discussion and get town out of the weird place they're in.

So a couple of catch-me-up buttercup questions.

What's this "bad mojo" that will happen if day goes on too long?
Can someone post a concise case against MoI? I asked Pere and he says he can't find one.
Why did the Toasty wagon crumble?

I'm going to put all of these concerns together in a simple action:
Unvote; Vote: MagisterLudi

5. I already think ML is scum from before my holiday when he used the word "odd" after calling someone out for using the word "odd".

6. That's been solidified by his claim that Pere only put ML in the FoS list because he's been "pressuring us," when if anything he's only on us because I called him out earlier in the game.

7. Then there's his latest post which YUCK.

8. Alchemist tells us that there is support for this lynch amongst enough players to make this a real possibility for the near future. That takes care of bad mojo.
The lack of a convincing case against MoI makes me wonder why the wagon is so large, and if a lot of those votes are apathetic/day-ending, they would do just as well on ML which is a far superior lynch given what Pere has said to me.
The ToastyWagon (which Pere is on) isn't likely to go anywhere any time soon, so I think our slot's vote can be better used.

[I just searched for a Hippopotamousse image to finish this post, but sadly, I can't find any. This short note to symbolise the hippo-shaped hole that has been left in my heart will have to suffice.]
~AV

Claims substantiated, maybe 1/2?

Let me answer all of this in turn.
1. I didn't have a really strong scum read on MoI, and I never repeatedly claimed this either. There are several other people I would rather lynch much higher, but considering they didn't have large wagons on them, plus I did have a scum read of some degree on MoI, so I was willing to vote them.

2. What do you mean by real? I can half concede this point, I never made a large case on them. That doesn't mean I can't have a scum read, plenty of people vote without launching a giant wall at someone, and you haven't taken an issue with anyone else doing this. (i.e. to me it seems like a fabricated point)

3. Not sure what you mean here. If I think someone is scum, I'm never 100% sure ever. There is always a chance that someone is town, and I do like to consider this.

4. I wanted you to quote what you're talking about here, but alas you didnt. I join wagons to lynch people I think are scum, primarily. All else is secondary. Never stated differently.

5. I already explained this way back in post 373, when you tried to bring up the same crap point

@ TSH I think you are smart enough to know there is a difference here, and no try and twist my words. I take issue when someone says, "x statement is odd", and leaves it at that. For you, I clearly illuminated what I thought was odd with you statement, the fact that you were actively posting nothing for reasons undisclosed, but then also making a point to show everyone... that you weren't posting for reason's undisclosed. It struck me as off, and if you would like to debate that, please do. I would have gone with a slight TSH is scum, but given you only had two posts and I couldn't decide one way or another, I made a point to point it out so I could come back to it later.

+++ You criticize nikanor for 'being overly concerned with appearance', well that's exactly what you're , "we're not posting" thing looked like as well

6. Biggest lie in the game. Your slot posted #257, and then I expressed suspicion of you in post 318, well before you CAN BACK IN and fos'sed me in 355. Please use facts.

7. This means absolutely nothing at all. Can you explain this.

~~~

Basically, all of your posts are either untrue, unsubstantiated, lies, or something random that has nothing to do with anything. I would again like to ask you to use facts and concrete posts to explain you scum read on me, since that's apparently what you are trying to say I am not doing. IT would help to both a.) show how silly your points are
b.) allow me to respond to something that actually has merit.

[Magister Ludi]

If I ever vote Ludi, it's honestly just going to be to end the day and get this over with with a side of policy. I've meta'd him, iso'd him, etc. and just don't get a scumread.

Its not often I say this, but I really have no idea why people think I am scum here, and most of the answers have been reduced to 'gut' or 'not playing up to his town self'.

meh, this vote has to go somewhere

Vote: Teleporiting speed hippos

(i'll iso implosion again in depth some time later)

[Magister Ludi]

I'm debating wehter or not saying what country would help him find someone to tickle me elmo because my smellin' sense says him and I have a fair to middlin chance of bein the same sillies which would be a hilarious turn of events.

BUT fine

I'll literally jump any wagon and I will laugh and laugh if more people start droppin since this is page 61 wweeee

What if by some strange turn of events it was the same nation as myself.

Come jump on Hippos with me. We did god's work momentarily earlier with tammy.

[Magister Ludi]

Well, I think it is clearly possible that people can do things more likely to come from town than scum, but overall still remain a scum read. I wasn't waiting until you wrote a wall, hell I had no idea that was coming, but you did something which was towney (which was put in effort), and I decided my vote was better off served somewhere else.

And stop leaping to conjectures. 'God's work' is categorized as a playful tone, but one to help cajole spyrex, sometimes you need to use words on his level to help convince him :p.

[Magister Ludi]

I must be the only one having fun in this game from the looks of things. (~~I wish this flash wagon was on tsh!)

Quilford, I have to ask, given what we know of the win conditions, why did you think name claiming was a good idea/pro-town?

[Magister Ludi]

To join a wagon with Alchemist and TSH, what is this world coming to.

Unvote
Vote : Quilford

Tierece's 1609 was a good post.

[Magister Ludi]

Return of the party hats gamma...

ON DAY ONE???

[Magister Ludi]

Based on implosion's death,

I now seriously highly doubt toasty is scum at all. Approached never lynch status. This is not a bus, and his repeated attempts to return to the wagon are not a bus either

My first impressions of tammy/un/tierce are all town (tierce more so than the others). Alchemist might be scum. Less so than toasty right now. I'll look at other people later.

VOTE: Toasty

I might be going for super mega confirmation bias here, but the fact he calls alchemist scum and then two of his post later reverse read for seemingly no reason;

starting to think alchemist is town
also starting to think dramonic is scum.

I'm going to put effort into this game now.

seem like a weak bus attempt. I've seen it happen many times before. His push on dramonic looks bad as well, but I already thought dramonic was town, so thats good. Plus his vote on dramonic in 877 confirms that. DDDP probably town from implosion, also.

I think out of the null reads he colors here;

Haze

,

UberNinja

,

SpyreX

,

Debonair Danny DiPietro

,

Quilford

,

Gammagooey, Wyrd, implosion

,

Teleporting Speed Hippos

so, Haze, SpyreX, and TSH, one is probably scum, but not more.

In other good news, MoI is almost confirmed town based on this question;

magua, do you die if you try to masonize scum, or does it just not work because no scum will be masonizable?

I think this wagon could actually go somewhere today

Vote: Alchemist

[Magister Ludi]

dana, MoI already half claimed at the end of the day yesterday, I do not want them claiming at all further, given a combination of role and how implosion treated their slot.

[Magister Ludi]

Magua, why do you think Alchemist is obv-town? What am I missing here?

[Magister Ludi]

I can't believe no one else sees Alchemist scum here.

There is a slot that I just iso-ed that I believe deserves some attention here,

Unvote
Vote: Oman

Duplicity's idea to look into the end of day wagoning in 1692 is a pretty good idea as well. The quilford wagon was pretty fast (and we know the other wagon was on scum)

[Magister Ludi]

The implosion-scum flip solidified a lot of my town reads. Also as Shift said I'm fairly confident in a lot of scum being on the Quilford wagon to save what seemed to be the inevitable lynch on Implosion and while I normally dislike VCA I think it'll be highly telling in this specific case (Also no MoI, this doesn't mean that I want you spamming up all my future games asking me to comment on your VCA analysis). I've coloured in green my strong town reads and flipped confirmed town and scum. If you want a strong town read explained just ask though most of the reasons behind them I went through yesterday.

(PS: See Magua, I'm not always wrong!)

Actually, this is where I think you are looking and judging the quilford wagon incorrectly. There are likely to be scum on the quilford wagon, but I do not believe at all that they would come at the end. I'm saying this because I believe it, and because I'm town and know what I was thinking. Why do I say this? Here,

At some point in the day, it looked like a tossup between the growing implosion wagon and this quilford flash wagon, probably around Vi's 1533 with this

implosion (L-9) ~ Duplicity, danakillsu, MaguaofIllusion, ToastyToast, Nikanor, GreyICE, Hinduragi

and

Quilford (L-4) ~ Alchemist, Glork, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Gammagooey, implosion, Wyrd, danakillsu, singersigner, SpyreX, Tierce, Teleporting Speed Hippos
implosion (L-8) ~ Duplicity, danakillsu, ToastyToast, Nikanor, GreyICE, Hinduragi, MaguaofIllusion, Tammy

With the implosion lynch still up in the air, the opportune spots for scum to help push the quilford wagon would be the middle area, where people could still swing either way. There is no way scum would jump onto the last 3, 4, maybeee 5 votes of quilford. It was inevitable the lynch was going to go through, given the apathy in the town, and scum would know quil was town and implosion was scum, and know that jumping on the back end of the quil wagon would look bad to some people. (and it has happened here, duplicity and others)

The scum are going to be in the center of the quilford wagon, or maybe jumped on the implosion wagon that went nowhere, considering that's an easy way to get brownie points, or would probably be absent all together. Scum have perfect information, and no way do they let themselves look bad. I'm saying this because I can garner a few town reads from the end of the quil wagon, reproduced below:

Quilford (LYNCH) ~ Alchemist, Glork, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Gammagooey,

implosion

,

Wyrd

, danakillsu, singersigner, SpyreX, Tierce, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Tammy,

GreyICE, Magister Ludi, Hinduragi

And because there was no way I would jump on an inevitable lynch on town as scum while I had a scum buddy as the counterwagon. All competent scum would know this.

Consequently, greyice and Hinduragi are town reads. If the scum come anywhere, it's in the middle/early. We already see implosion, but if there are other scum, they're probably in the dana-singer-spyrex 7-8-9 slots that helped push the wagon over the edge.

As for this implosion wagon;

implosion (L-8) ~ Duplicity, danakillsu,

ToastyToast,

Nikanor,

GreyICE, Hinduragi, MaguaofIllusion,

Tammy

We again find dana in a probable bussing situation, if we assume at least some scum out of 8 players voting implosion. I haven't really looked at dana before, but I think it holds weight.

Fos: Dana

[Magister Ludi]

I missed your questions, will get to them.

I think you need to go reread the building quil wagon yesterday. At a certain point, the wagon seemed inevitable, especially after Quil claimed VT and name. I'm not saying scum would never join the end of a wagon in general, I'm saying in this case given the circumstances it is very unlikely to have happened, every game is different. And we already know of one scum on the wagon, there's probably another one or two that helped it along.

I've seen all town on mislynches. In walrus mafia, where I was mafia, the day one lynch was only done by town, and was quite glorious. You speak in too many absolutes, and I'm not sure why.

[Magister Ludi]

Vote: Magister Ludi

Ludi just scumming it up in viewtopic.php?p=4129139#p4129139

How? Why? What about it means I am scum? Which part of my conjecture do you disagree with?

I think my reasons are all quite solid.

[Magister Ludi]

Unvote
Vote: Teleporting Speed Hippos

Finally, we are getting a little traction here. Oman still deserves a righteous kick in the ass and a lynch. He really hasn't done much of anything, and that's not his only problem.

For duplicity,

Ludi, can you explain for me two things 1) Why you believed Implosion was a bad lynch in Post 1440 and 2) Why you stated that you'd ISO him in Post 1518 and never followed through on it. Also while you're at it post a summary of your reads for me.

1. To be honest, nothing he had done struck me as coming from scum. I was heavily surprised when he flipped scum after the night here. I probably wouldn't have voted him today either, and would likely have pursued other people. Nothing in his iso really stuck out to me as something I would vote someone over, plus he was calling me town, and I thought he had a good townie read on my slot.

2. I isoed him, but still didn't see anything bad, didn't really want to drop a giant wall on someone I probably wasn't going to vote, and got distracted else where with quilford and etc. I don't always type everything I'm thinking regarding reads etc. If I think their only purpose is to clutter the thread.

3. Lets see,
scum: TSH, Oman, Dana, and Alchemist (though no one agrees with me on alchemist. Maybe at this point he's just annoyed me too much)
top town reads; SpyreX, Tierce, Glork, Toasty

I'm not sure what exactly you want and if you want more, but thats where i'm at.

[Magister Ludi]

They're not super awesome, but it is somewhat useful to analyze where the known scum decided to push and poke for a lynch and the people he was defending and avoiding, it lets us start to make connections and get more solid scumreads. Like implosion pushing on toasty, and now toasty is very likely town.

[Magister Ludi]

I am sure he meant knowing implosion is scum.

I would also liked to second, third, fifth, twenty-seventh, the call for Nexus to please do something regarding the game we are all currently in.

[Magister Ludi]

@Ludi: did you find Zdeneck scummy or did your read on the slot change only after dana's entrance?

On the one hand I definitely think TSH needs to be challenged a bit, but on the other hand I don't want to make the same mistake as we did with the Quaroath lynch. The votes going on him just seem way too similar.

I remember have vaguely pro-town thoughts about zdenek. However, after looking at where dana's vote and position ended up on the wagons yesterday, and his weird questioning of MoI, It stood out to me. Given that I thought zdenek was protown, yes, it changed after the entrance.

I assume you mean Quilford, also. What do you mean by similar? I was pushing him all day yesterday, and the other two votes are by people I have pretty good town reads on. I'm not sure what the problem you're seeing here is.

[Magister Ludi]

Also, Hindu's role is hilarious.

[Magister Ludi]

I'll answer Duplicity and TSH in the morning (though I will say I've already shown that all of TSH points were pretty much rubbish yesterday)

Since this will take less time,

to be honest i'm also seriously considering voting magister ludi just for the tone of his posts even though i think the content of it is at least decent.

What's wrong with my tone here?

while i have a little time ludi do you have any reads that you think the majority of the game would disagree with?

Erm, Teleporting Speed Hippos scum (seriously, no one joined me on this yesterday) Alchemist scum, SpyreX town, Toasty town: I've had this read since he was getting wagoned yesterday, and now it seems to be help by more people.

also actually i think this is better can i get your strongest town read that everyone would say "well that's obvious". multiple town reads that fit that criteria would also be useful, i just don't want to see a big list I want to see what you'd be willing to stand up for and be like "FUCK YOU GUYS <etc> IS TOWN AND <optional reasons and/or the word REASONS>

Glork, Tierce, Toasty, SpyreX. I already mentioned these four people. Hindu is looking pretty town too, wouldn't want to lynch him.

Those questions were really off beat, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. If someone I think is town is in danger, I almost always defend them. Do you want others to answer these questions as well?

[Magister Ludi]

Also, in regards to nailing one of nexus or oman, I'd prefer oman. Nexus at least has his suspicions in the right place re: Alchemist and TSH. Though both have done not much of anything this entire game.

[Magister Ludi]

Yeah, a lot of people think alchemist is town, but his slot is still bothering me. I can't shake it. Maybe it will be my downfall, I don't know.

SpyreX town is not in my iso, so I'll give you that in the morning. I'm also going to say I'm not in the business of just making stuff up on the spot, I have my strong town reads, but not many else I would slot up into that group really. I don't think it is a mistake a lot of people have town reads on them, they've been doing good stuff so far.

[Magister Ludi]

1.

Was hoping to see a little more reads but I'll settle for an explanation behind the Oman scum-read and the SpyreX town-read

For one, SpyreXs confusion over his nation in 1715 does not read like scum, if he was scum for sure someone would have explained what the name in color meant to avoid a situation that would draw unnecessary attention to himself. 1560 reads like he is frustrated by the way the game is going because of the confusion and semi-chaos, a state any scum would relish. And then 1724, key part quoted below, also strengthened my town read

Or should I just go ahead and mention the inevitability of my lynch in the near future and the simple pure fact that because its based on raw stupid my desire to even pretend to help in a useful manner is gone?

What would you like?

Considering I am town and feel the same way about how people are treating me here, it's not hard for me to believe this also came from town.

An for oman scum, it's because he hasn't really DONE anything. His first couple posts contain a vote on Tierce and not much followup, and then he segue's into voting GreyICE and leaving his vote there until the MoI wagon comes roaring along. Even though he has 15 posts, none of them really do anything or attempt to convince the rest of the players in the game that who he is pushing on is scum, and I find that mentality and posting style more likely to come from scum than town.

2.

Really the main reason I have for Ludi being scum is that a lot of his posting earlier in the game came across as unnatural and had a lot of fluff and filler, his attack and read on Alchemist comes across as contrived and he soft-pushed away from Implosion and Implosion did a similar thing towards Ludi. With that said I'm nowhere near confident in him being scum, in fact all my scum reads at this point are incredibly muddled up and I'm having trouble putting them in some form of order of strongest to weakest due to it. Pretty much here's where I am:

This is the problem I have with people voting me. I don't know what you mean by 'unnatural', as that just how I have posted this game, and I don't think I had a lot of fluff and filler, and certainly not more than anyone else in the game. I think I asked someone to show me who was the bastion of no fluff filler posting that I am being compared to that makes me woefully inadequate, and I don't think that response was forthcoming.

Also, my attack on alchemist was probably the best thing going in the game at that time.

@ Duplicity

Do you disagree with my points on him at that point in the game, or that anything I said in that particular post was incorrect? And also, he got up to 5 or 6 votes, so

clearly

there were and are people who agreed with me on that issue.

I don't think I soft pushed away from implosion. I said I he wasn't a good wagon, isoed him, thought he was town, and then left it. I am still surprised he flipped scum. I can't speak for what implosion did, but if you can point out exactly what you're talking about we can sort it out.

3.

In response to TSH 1825, well I already addressed how most of his posts against me are outright lies, or simply incorrect. Which is part of the reason I want to lynch him. Not to mention the fact he has literally no other scum reads and hasn't commented on half this game.

Ludi's response to TSH

4.

1. Still get a sense of Ludi talking out of both sides of his mouth. blech. He even admits it in Post 1552. You have to speak Spyrex's language, ie say one thing to Spyrex while saying another thing to me. blech.

2. Could vote, but even thought he makes my scumdar hit red levels, something tells me he's just scummy town. But, seriously, hai, you have a scum read on Alchemist? I mean I could see being irritated with him, but irritation doesn't equal scum.

3. Actually could easily vote today. He's just too compliant and concerned with getting people to tell him just what he's done and what's wrong with his tone, and

4. he's leaving far too much open to swing with the wind. Don't. like. at. all.

I DO NOT admit anything of what you are saying in 1552. By speak spyrex language, I mean use weird phrase and sentences and words, not the content of the actual meaning. It'd be like saying heeby hooby jimminy for spyrex, and please vote player X, for you. I'm not sure there are any actual example of 'double talk' at all in my iso. I've tried to explain every read I have.

2. Yeah, I have a scum read on Alchemist. So? I've actually articulated why in specific details I find him scummy. Just because other people disagree doesn't mean I should abandon the read. Question, are you irritated with him?

3. See, again this is the problem. WTF does 'compliant' and 'concerned' mean exactly? In my interpretation, OF COURSE I am concerned that people are trying to lynch me, considering I am town and do not want to be lynched. And yes, I do want people to actually

articulate

why they are voting me instead of going 'lol defensive vote', partly because then I can show how ridiculous some of the attacks are, and partly because if I ever do die then people are not held accountable for their votes. And well yeah, if someone says 'his tone is a problem' the obvious question is 'what is your problem with it and why is it scummy', I don't think I am being outrageous here.

4. Its funny you attack me with this considering your third point. I have no idea what the f this means. Is this even scummy? Are there examples of this?

[Magister Ludi]

That’s fantastic considering that you had no problem jumping on our wagon without hesitation when we were being DERPwagonned. Seems like a manufactured reason to me.

That's not my only reason for calling him town. Also, the way he worded my statement was the exact way I was feeling, so I ascribed town qualities to it. You had no such similar post, or series of earlier actions in the game that made me think town.

If you want to tell me that 8 magical votes in the span of 30 posts to pass scum Implosion's 7 isn’t exactly what I just said I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to interest you in. Yeah, so both of you can take your “That’s not what went down” and shove it.

This is exactly what I was saying earlier. The middle section of that wagon has a high chance of containing scum considering we know the other wagon was on scum. When either wagon was viable, scum would want to take the time to push the implosion wagon over the edge.

At no point have Reg and I had anything resembling a scumread on Alchemist.

That wasn't exactly my question. You called my attack on alchemist 'contrived', and I'd like to know what about it you thought was particularly wrong or out of place.

[Magister Ludi]

scum would want to take the time to push the implosion wagon over the edge.

EBWOP; push the quilford wagon

[Magister Ludi]

vote: ludi

for ignoring my trigun remark, truly scummy

This is the sort of stuff i'm dealing with here . Yes, I love trigun. Yes, it has no importance on this game. Yes, you should watch every single episode in three days like me. Can we move on?

Duplicity;

I understand your SpyreX read and it's something I've been tossing up myself, I think overall I treat his whole 'I have no country' claim as a weak town-tell but that combined with his play which has been fairly lackluster leaves him sitting around null.

What I do not understand is how your Oman scum read reasoning doesn't relate to Kates, Nexus and a few other people are doing the same thing or at least something highly similar. So why is he scum over them?

Well, the fact is for Oman there are pushes and comments he has made I think are actively scummy (and I do mention those). Katsuki and Nexus are more.... absent or non contributing. I mention for Nexus the only small saving grace is that he thinks Alchemist and TSH are scum as well. Katsuki is very frustrating for me to play with because he sort of derps around and lurks and doesn't do much ever. So, I think Oman is slightly different, but by no means are they in my town category, and I would be willing to vote for them if it is necessary.

I can't describe unnatural too well, at least not at the moment. The person that you asked to show how you've been fluffing and filling was me, and I answered it to have no response from you to it at all, see; Post 493.

ahh yes, I remember that post vaguely. The problem here is that I can flatly say I disagree with you that I was fluffing, and it sort of comes down to how you interpret that word of my post. Its hard for me to shake you from that read because it's like looking at art, you might like something I think is crap. But that's why I had my little follow up question about who in the game was a shinning example of NOT 'fluffing' (god sounds like a porno here) so I knew which metric you were using.

As for why you found Implosion town I cannot grasp or understand that, literally nothing he did even seemed an inch town and his conversation and back and forth with Toasty was so bad that it was almost a scum-claim, your comment of 'dont like his wagon' and no future comment on it looks like avoiding a team-mates lynch, that's the problem I have with it. The Implosion thing is Post 1070, his addressing of your wagon is similar to that of yours to him, it's an avoidance of voting each other by stating dislike of the other persons wagon with no reasoning attached whatsoever.

All I can say to this is that I would definitely have positioned myself in a more favorable position or come out of it looking better re: implosion if I was scum with him. And yeah, I did read him as town, if you're town kudos to you for reading him as scum.

Ok, we've gone over this before once for the record but I'll do it again. Your attack reads as an OMGUS, it's you attacking him when he suggests you as scum and it looks like silencing a weaker player by insisting he's scum and therefore attempting to decredit his arguments through it.

I don't think this is the case. Alchemist makes a throwaway comment about how he gut has me as scum in 226, and that cause me to take a closer look at him and make a pretty good post in 240 addressing specifically why I think he is scum, and then he sort of amps it up. To dismiss me response as omgus is disingenuous, as that means any scum should vote for everyone in my opening post, and then if anyone voted them back belittle it with omgus and other such words.

On another note, I'm not sure how much more this particular argument has left in it. I think you're more town than not, so I'd rather not have to have huge battles with you specifically. If you want to ask me more questions or ask my opinion on anything, please do.

~~~

p.s. I'm glad people are coming around to dana and oman

[Magister Ludi]

@ Tammy, I have put effort into finding scum, a lot actually.

And to your 'defensive' argument, the whole "being defensive is a scum tell" thing is, and has always been, bogus. Everyone should always defend themselves in detail against any reasonable accusation (and against most unreasonable ones as wll).

If you're town, and someone's calling you scum, either their facts are wrong, their logic is wrong, they're jumping to conclusions incorrectly, or at the very least their argument is inconclusive. One of those things must be true, and whenever someone accuses you, it's your job to say why they're wrong.

I tend to consider failure to defend yourself properly a scumtell, and defending yourself to be null at worst.

(I first figured out that "being defensive is a scumtell" thing was crap during my first few games as scum; I was amazed how easy it was for a scum to get a mislynch using it. Step 1, attack someone. Step 2, when they defend themselves, call them defensive. Never failed.)

Defensivness isn't scummy, period. If you defend yourself against a mild attack with a mile long post, then that might be an overreaction, but it isn't at all scummy; there's no reason to think scum is more likely to do that then town.

Now, if you're defending yourself without scumhunting, that can be scummy, but there the tell is the lack of scumhunting, not defending yourself. If you're defending yourself in detail, it pretty much just means you're playing the game properly; nobody wants to be lynched, and if you let even minor incorrect arguments against you stand without responding to them, it's very likely to come back and bite you on the ass later in the game.

~~~

[Magister Ludi]

But, see, here rather than respond to what I think are the more important parts of my post; you give me a dissertation on the merits of defending oneself.

I guess I must have skimmed the important stuff . I thought that was the main thrust of your post. I'll go reread it.

hey ludi i went over your wagon analysis and although you saying "because i know i'm town" to reinforce it fills me with a strange burning sensation I think the analysis is for the most part decent.

But don't you think it's at least possible that scum would hop on near the end given the importance of getting the day over quickly?

hindu's probably town for other stuff but I wouldn't be surprised if grey-scum or tammy-scum hopped on the wagon late since it looked inevitable and stalling it after a daykill for being slow at lynching just happened.
disclaimer: have a town read on tammy right now and this is mostly for an example of why I think your logic could be flawed.

It is possible that scum hopped on late, but I think unlikely. The lynch looked very inevitable once quilford claimed VT and the blood was in the water. And if anything, it looks like scum would want to prolong the day, considering this strange blue number we've got going on here. I do think hindu is town as well, and I think tammy is probably town at the moment too.

I don't think hypo-anyone scum would jump on the wagon late, there was no reason to, plus it makes you look bad when counterwagon implosion-scum was sitting there. I'm not sure what you mean with the day-kill either, unless you're referencing oversoul?

Toasty;

If you don't see TSH or Nexus scum, I think Oman scum could be right up your alley.

[Magister Ludi]

It is possible that scum hopped on late, but I think unlikely. The lynch looked very inevitable once quilford claimed VT and the blood was in the water. And if anything, it looks like scum would want to prolong the day, considering this strange blue number we've got going on here. I do think hindu is town as well, and I think tammy is probably town at the moment too.

Do you think that prolonging the day was a remotely feasible strategy, given posts such as MoI's Post 1475 and my Post 1548?

Like, sure scum would WANT to prolong the day, but don't you think that actually TRYING to prolong the day would be a bit far-fetched at that point?

Because as scum, I sure would want to go with the flow and "end the day quickly" by mislynching a townie. Dead town is dead town.

I think you slightly misunderstood what I was saying. I was talking about how in general scum in this game probably want longer days and more posts and whatever increases the blue number, since gamma seemed to think scum would want to end the day early, here:

But don't you think it's at least possible that scum would hop on near the end given the importance of getting the day over quickly?

At that point of the quilford wagon, certainly scum are going with the flow and are not trying to prolong day one at all, I agree. Doing so would be pretty far-fetched and scummy.

[Magister Ludi]

I realize the last post was sort of confusing, to clarify;

1. In general, I believe scum want longer days.
2. At the point Quil claimed VT, the day was going to end soon.
3. Scum, even though they want longer days, are going to go with the flow and accept the day is ending. (not shake anything up)
4. Quil lynched (by townies last few votes IMO)

This game is getting out of control and will literally be overwhelmed by failure sooner than later.

There's far too many have to go lynches at the moment and that will, mark my words, get worse.

But I flat out can't care. If that dayshot wants to even pretend to be town there's a laundry list that needs to go. If its NOT town and there's no night vig wellllll bonered.

I'm still waiting for people to man up and Glork it up with that. Then you'll have a few real words

Why do you think this game is out of control?

[Magister Ludi]

Also Shmugen scum flip

How about the fact Shmugen was steadfast trying to lynch me all of today?

Unvote
Vote: Oman

This is a justice wagon

[Magister Ludi]

Holy crap I just realized Shmugen was boss man of the scum squad. cha-ching.

If we can't get oman, or TSH, then I can go nexus or dana. That's where i'm at right now.

[Magister Ludi]

ToastyToast (L-7) ~ Haze, UberNinja,

SpyreX,

Debonair Danny DiPietro,

Quilford,

Gammagooey,

Wyrd,

implosion,

Teleporting Speed Hippos,

Shmugen,

Hinduragi

11

[/b]

Something that caught my eye, TSH has actually a higher chance of being town. Don't think scum go 1-2-3 on any wagon.

[Magister Ludi]

Unvote

I'll take a look at Implosion as soon as possible, probably at lunch.

I think a country claim would be beneficial. There are pros and cons to any plan, but the pros probably outweigh the cons on this one. If MoI has powers related to country, it's likely others do as well. Con wise, if the scum are going after country leaders as theorized, if a leader dies, the scum could ignore everyone else who claimed that country.

If we needed any other reason not to claim countries, this is it.

[Magister Ludi]

Ludi what are your thoughts on Haze/Avenging Angel

I isoed the joint slots. I also ctrl-f Haze for mention of either implosion or shmugen, and there was none (not that he commented on a lot of players). Anyways. As for their slot, It's not town, and it's not very good, but there are other players I actively want to lynch above them. I thought haze was scummy earlier in day one for his lack of reads and lurking, but since then people have super-ceded them, and I've gone back and forth internally. There are much better people to lynch here today in my opinion.

[Magister Ludi]

Other interesting things from shmu+implosion voting;

singersigner (L-14) ~ Shmugen

Singer more likely town,

Vote Count XI: Mia
MaguaofIllusion (L-4) ~ Tammy, Glork, singersigner, Tierce, Gammagooey, SpyreX, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Katsuki, Oman,

Wyrd,

UberNinja
ToastyToast (L-10) ~ Haze,

Quilford, Wyrd,

implosion,

Teleporting Speed Hippos,

Shmugen

implosion (L-12) ~ Duplicity, Zdenek, MaguaofIllusion
Katsuki (L-13) ~ GreyICE, Nikanor
Oman (L-14) ~ UberNinja, Lady Lambdadelta
Magister Ludi (L-14) ~ Alchemist
Teleporting Speed Hippos (L-14) ~ Magister Ludi
Debonair Danny DiPietro (L-14) ~ ToastyToast
dramonic (L-14) ~ Hinduragi
Nexus (L-14) ~ Oversoul
Haze (L-15) ~ Lady Lambdadelta
GreyICE (L-15) ~ Oman, Nikanor

Not Voting: Nexus, dramonic

TSH more likely town (detailed before). Interesting to note is no scum on MoI wagon yet flipped. If you take MoI to be town, we can start mining this wagon. I give singer a little bit of a town read from shmugen, and glork and tierce town as well.

MaguaofIllusion (L-4) ~ Tammy,

Glork, singersigner, Tierce,

Gammagooey, SpyreX, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Katsuki, Oman,

Wyrd,

UberNinja

I think Gamma and SpyreX are probably town as well, and then we come to the back nine (so to speak). We've got Katsuki, DDD, Oman, and Uberninja. There is for sure a scum on this wagon. No way, if MoI is town, do scum miss up the opportunity to add fuel to the fire and try and lynch a good player.

I think this strengths my conviction that Oman's got to go.

Then things can begin making a whole hell of a lot more sense.

ToastyToast (L-11) ~ Haze, Quilford, implosion, Shmugen

To Alchemist, here's another reason I give haze a sort of town read as well.

Sadly, Mathgirl/shmu were never voted in this game. Its probably time to go find who suspected that slot, as its unlikely they would be scum willing to bus the big bad, especially since Micaiah probably had some good abilities.

[Magister Ludi]

I also think there could easily be a serial killer in this game as well. Miciah, the head of the baddies, did not flip as XXXX Tarhalindur over mafia, a typical moniker given to a powerful important role in a Vi game. So there is another role out there that has to be powerful enough and important enough to receive that designation, and a serial killer fits the bill in one shape or another.

[Magister Ludi]

I'm pretty happy with the way this Oman wagon is going, but I'm hoping we can get some more support here and get more people on board. If you're not voting oman, I seriously ask you to consider why not and give his iso a read, (or read some of my posts), I think we can lynch scum here today.

[Magister Ludi]

Vig, I swear to god, if you're part of this wrong, you better damn well be making it right.

I agree here, but saying that, Nexus is not that bad of a lynch. I am willing to put further votes onto Nexus, so I agree that a fullclaim is needed, albeit minus his or her name of course.

[Magister Ludi]

ALERT!

I do not think we should lynch Nexus, barring a counterclaim.

Why?

Ike is almost certainly a role in this game, despite not having played the games myself I know he is quite famous and popular. I expect him to be in this game.

So that leaves a few possible options.

1. Nexus is town and Ike. What I think the case currently is.
2. Nexus is scum, but fakeclaimed ike for no apparent reason, will get counterclaimed, and die.
3. Nexus is scum with Ike fakeclaim, implying ike is not in the game. I highly doubt this.

Now scum have a prime honeypot of fakeclaims to draw out roles in this game, the little list of people they have to eliminate. If you were scum going to die, the smart play would be to claim someone off that list, (who will presumably be super important) draw out the town player who has that role, and then eliminate them later. So there is a

4. Nexus is scum who claimed Ike off the scum elimination list, eschewing his own fakeclaim

In all scenarios but 1 and 3 Nexus is about to get counterclaimed and die. It is a really good trade for town at this point, scum down three members plus boss man with a bevy of unknown town power roaming about.

I also don't think three is likely, leaving me with the simple idea that Nexus is in fact Ike. On the off chance that Nexus has an ike fakeclaim, I believe that will become apparent later as well.

So the net net of this is, I don't think we should lynch Nexus, and we should lynch oman.

[Magister Ludi]

1. Nexus is town and Ike. What I think the case currently is.
2. Nexus is scum, but fakeclaimed ike for no apparent reason, will get counterclaimed, and die.
3. Nexus is scum with Ike fakeclaim, implying ike is not in the game. I highly doubt this.

re: 2,

Ike is the most obvious fakeclaim for scum. If Ike is on the scums' list, and Nexus claims Ike and gets counterclaimed, guess what? Scum have a guranteed target (and likely a power role at that) to kill the ensuing night.


Like... I'm not really sure what misfired in your brain when you said "for no apparent reason," but scum going down in flames will often fakeclaim doctor and/or something-else-they-want-to-kill.

Nexus has done BOTH.

Fuckin' seriously.

Trading one for one at this point is something scum probably don't want to do, and given that there are probably going to be other pro-town abilities out there, like watcher etc.etc., it may just serve to trap another scum as they go for the ike kill.

I'm not sure why you specifically went for doctor as a weird fakeclaim either, i've seen all sorts. And if we're assuming this is a scum fakeclaim, then Vi would have provided full on fake role pms (unless I am mistaken) that would be tip top and sound good, making Ike a doctor is something interesting and strange enough it sounds like a town role.

@ML: from Vi's Comprehensive Modding Guide
The other preferred precaution is to deliberately leave out main characters and use them as safeclaims for the scum groups.

Fuck

I grant that, but I don't think that is likely, also;

The first rule of a safeclaim is that it has to be believable.

the fact that so many people have raised a red rag here pertaining to nexus claim would surely not have gone over Vi's head.

I personally think a doctor claim makes sense. It can be made to be flavorful, and if ike's job in the games is to protect people, it makes sense.

~~~~

I'd also like to say, it's not as if lynching Oman here today is a step down from nexus. Before this nexus wagon, people seemed pretty willing to swing one way or the other, but now that nexus got to L-2 the votes have gotten A LOT more sticky. If nexus is in fact scum, I think that it will be easily found out in the days ahead, it's not as if town doesn't have a few days to spend on better options and then come back to nexus.

[Magister Ludi]

Just popping into to say I still hold oman should be lynched belief.

It seems people are coming up with all sorts of different theories about why nexus should be lynched on his claim. Some people are claiming that Vi makes very detailed fakeclaims and uses main characters, and other seems to be saying (tammy) that Vi really didn't give nexus a fakeclaim and just gave him a name to use. In tammy's case, I don't think it is likely that someone fakeclaiming ike would make up some sort of doctor ability for Ike.

It just seems impatient to lynch nexus today when the benefits of holding out a day or two are pretty good and the risk isn't that high. If he is scum, we can guarantee that someone doesn't get nightkilled, because if they do there is a high chance nexus is scum. And if he is town, HE may get nightkilled for having a powerful ability.

[Magister Ludi]

Those vote counts were exceptionally close together.

SpyreX, you seem to want to lynch oman but your vote is still on Nexus. Do you still want to lynch Nexus today?

[Magister Ludi]

Hi all, I've been away for a while because my computer decided to push the self destruct button on itself.

I've seen TSH claim, and I guess I'll reread but then probably put a vote on Nexus.

[Magister Ludi]

Why reread now when you already had a good vote planned? Do you think you'll start a better wagon at this point? Has the day not been drawn out long enough? What bout of wisdom do you think you can provide in the next 4 votes that would be in any way more game changing than a flip?

I wanted to actually reread nexus claim and see If I could decide one way or the other.

it's been decided though. I'm probably would have ended up voting nexus, but I still have a pretty big amount of uncertainty about this flip.

[Magister Ludi]

The 'uberninja' school of reaction testing?

[Magister Ludi]

Did anyone else notice the number went down from 40 to 39?

Also, I'm really happy that Nexus flipped scum, even though I didn't really see that coming. I isoed him in the night, but it doesn't reveal much, he only voted one person.

Sad as it is for me to say, my Oman is probably town and that wagon probably has scum in it. Time to check it out.

[Magister Ludi]

Nexus (L-9)

~ Tammy,

Duplicity

, Gammagooey, danakillsu
Magister Ludi (L-9) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro,

Teleporting Speed Hippos

,

MaguaofIllusion

,

Shmugen

,

Alchemist

(prob town based on Nexus)

If it wasn't clear, I think TSH super town (barring extraordinary shenanigans) and Alchemist town. Nexus scum in this early stages probably has all three unflipped players being town on him, dana to the town pile, (I was coming around to this most of yesterday)

Nexus (L-2)

~ Tammy,

Duplicity,

Gammagooey, Glork, Tierce, Lady Lambdadelta,

Alchemist,

MaguaofIllusion,

UberNinja, GreyICE,

Teleporting Speed Hippos

Oman (L-10) ~ SpyreX, Magister Ludi, Hinduragi
GreyICE (L-11) ~ Katsuki, danakillsu
Debonair Danny DiPietro (L-12) ~ ToastyToast
SpyreX (L-12) ~ Oman
danakillsu (L-12) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro
singersigner (L-12) ~ singersigne

Not Voting: dramonic, Avenging Angel, Nexus, Nikanor

Oman I was so certain of . Anyways, the only position of probably sketchiness on Nexus would be LLD, Uber, or GreyICE. Everyone else reads as town or is town because of extenuating circumstance. But probably there may be no scum on Nexus, which leads the hunt to elsehwhere (maybe DDD, or Katsuki or singer?)

Nexus (L-6) ~ Duplicity, Lady Lambdadelta, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Katsuki, UberNinja, Alchemist, GreyICE, Nikanor
Oman (L-6) ~ Magister Ludi, ToastyToast, Tammy, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Gammagooey, SpyreX, Nikanor

Nexus collapses to L-7, goes back to L-6, oman takes off, and DDD reappears on Oman. Strikes for him!

Oman (L-4) ~ Magister Ludi, ToastyToast, Tammy, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Gammagooey, SpyreX, Nikanor, danakillsu, UberNinja, kanyeknowsbest

Oman gets this far. I think TT, tammy, Gamma, SpyreX, dana are all town.

I think this points towards me voting DDD. I can get behind it.

Vote: DDD

[Magister Ludi]

I'm thinking there can't be to many more scum out there, maybe two or three maximum. If thats the case, they probably weren't bussing yesterday and were either squirreling their votes away or trying to actively lynch someone else, we should probably not lynch from the Nexus wagon for a few days.

[Magister Ludi]

What's Duplicity flipping as self aligned got to do with anything?

[Magister Ludi]

No, I'm 100% sure he was Julius, and Vi put that flip in there to troll us and because Nexus claimed ike.

[Magister Ludi]

Minor point Grey, Tar as a role has been town three times.

I also agree that Ike was probably the bee knees in terms of fakeclaims. All other big name people in this game are probably town.

[Magister Ludi]

The Nexus flip was in the first post if anyone took the time to actually look.

Agree with 2625

[Magister Ludi]

Why is DDD town to you?

[Magister Ludi]

His voting record yesterday is pretty spotty (voting me over nexus, and then voting oman over nexus, switching to oman when nexus wagon collapsed, etc.), and his play/actual words isn't great either.

Plus if you really think he is town you probably should do something about it before he bites the bullet, and that doesn't look to far off.

[Magister Ludi]

That was quite sneaky by MoI! I was looking forward to a flip all day.

[Magister Ludi]

I can't believe I'm doing this.

Unvote
Vote: Tammy

[Magister Ludi]

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. I need to stop and evaluate where we are at right now. We're up, and I see no reason to set it on fire and throw it down the drain because we feel like it.

People need to stop shitposting. Please.

[Magister Ludi]

Just so I can wrap my head around all the claims and half claims and psuedo claims;

Claimed:

1. Alchemist (as an alt of Timeater)

--claimed roleblocker--

2. Teleporting Speed Hippos

--claimed bodyguard--

3. Debonair Danny DiPietro

--claimed confirmable?--

4. kanyeknowsbest
6. Gammagooey
7. Glork

--claimed to be seeking someone?--

8. Benmage
9. Hinduragi
11. Katsuki
12. Lady Lambdadelta
13. Magister Ludi

14. MaguaofIllusion

--claimed Masonizer--

17. Nikanor
18. Rhinox
21. GreyICE
22. singersigner
23. SpyreX
24. Tammy

--claimed Naesala, powers unknown--

25. Tierce

--claimed Rolf, VT--

26. ToastyToast
27. UberNinja

29. danakillsu

--town from MoI--

[Magister Ludi]

Claimed:

1. Alchemist (as an alt of Timeater)

--claimed roleblocker--

2. Teleporting Speed Hippos

--claimed bodyguard--

3. Debonair Danny DiPietro

--claimed confirmable?--

4. kanyeknowsbest
6. Gammagooey
7. Glork

--claimed to be seeking someone?--

8. Benmage
9. Hinduragi

--claimed one way lover maker--

11. Katsuki
12. Lady Lambdadelta
13. Magister Ludi

14. MaguaofIllusion

--claimed Masonizer--

17. Nikanor
18. Rhinox
21. GreyICE
22. singersigner
23. SpyreX

--claimed member of Gallia, rest unknown--

24. Tammy

--claimed Naesala, powers unknown--

25. Tierce

--claimed Rolf, VT--

26. ToastyToast
27. UberNinja

29. danakillsu

--town from MoI--

[Magister Ludi]

I don't want you to use that ability Hindu, especially since you're a voice of reason in this insanity plus out and out claiming that ability is town sided.

[Magister Ludi]

Unvote
Vote: Uberninja

I'll update this list in a bit

[Magister Ludi]

You are a cancer to this game.

[Magister Ludi]

I just think we should lynch Uberninja.

And part of what is killing people's will to post and be active is the fact we get 10pages of crap everyday from people like UN.

[Magister Ludi]

I think UN is scum. Furthermore, the best way to accomplish and objective is not always a straight line. If he does turn town, thats sad, but the morale boost for everyone else who is town will be significant, leading to finding other scum easier.

[Magister Ludi]

Tracker Claims are very likely scum fakeclaims.

[Magister Ludi]

I think he is scum.

[Magister Ludi]

Only four more votes on Uberninja needed guys!

[Magister Ludi]

.
.
.

Unvote
Vote: SpyreX

[Magister Ludi]

If spyrex is town I am turbo lynching UN and LLD for major shenanigans.

[Magister Ludi]

This is like the grand old majestic master drawing his last breath. The last gasp of a legend.

*is very sad spyrex is dying over half the trash in this game*

[Magister Ludi]

We need to get back to killing each other like civilized folk. We lost that somewhere along the way.

I don't know if this is the time or place, but I don't care and I agree. Yes, me using 'trash' may be conceived as harsh by some. I stand by it. the amount of vitriol and inane nonsense people spew at each other, shouting out obscenities, caps, nonsense, hate, ignoring, etc, is very overwhelming.

[Magister Ludi]

I can't do it,...

Unvote
Vote: Uberninja

[Magister Ludi]

Unvote
Vote: SpyreX

[Magister Ludi]

Just got internet access. Checking in.

[Magister Ludi]

Well, after TSH explains what they were doing last night, i'll vote UN

[Magister Ludi]

I agree with LLD.

We need TSH up in this bitch to explain what they have been doing.

And I'm pretty interested in getting DDD to actually confirm himself as town (as he claims?), and not any of this smoke and mirrors nonsense that he has been going on with.

[Magister Ludi]

Actually, Glork, why did you lump me in with the pod of players 'you would like to lynch'.

[Magister Ludi]

Actually, Glork, why did you lump me in with the pod of players 'you would like to lynch'.

Because overnight I took a look at you, and your play isn't as drastically differently from MLP as I remember.

That said, I haven't gone back and re-read MLP yet. So I'm probably overstepping my bounds here.

I assume you are using that one scum game because that is the only game we have played together (and happened to be where I was scum)?

I am also not far away from coming back to the Rhinox/Oman slot. That slot has continued to do absolutely nothing in the intervening days since oman got replaced. If Danny does not flip scum, and in fact flips scum, then this is where some attention has to return. If DDD does flip scum, no chance of being scum.

Glork, thoughts on Katsuki, Kanye, and Toasty.

[Magister Ludi]

EBWOP: and in fact flips town*

[Magister Ludi]

Ok. I think we have this game in a nice place. As long as we don't run around getting paranoid about people being alive, the number of pusedo confirmed/town people will soon eliminate many places for the scum to reside.

If GI does flip scum, I can't see more than 1 or 2 scum remaining in the game, and then we could probable set up series of role events to get down to which remaining players are scum.

Glork, I didn't play team mafia.

[Magister Ludi]

Wow good god 15 pages or so since I last posted.

Yes, as I've and other people have been saying, the people scum need to eliminate are probable the leaders of the various regions.

This Sanakai CC, I don't know what to believe. I've seen Grey ICE claim bodyguard before in zoaraster game and ride that to a scum victory. He is crafty. If i'm voting either one, it will probably be GreyICE

[Magister Ludi]

Is it possible Alchemist is being a huge idiot? I've thought this at times here today, but this is some serious damage if he is wrong.

[Magister Ludi]

IS THERE anything else that needs to be done today? Has anyone else not posted

We need to just check before we end this day. Thread has not been open for that long, but it has been a lot of pages.

[Magister Ludi]

This whole mess will be better cleared up with a flip

[Magister Ludi]

To confirm

1. Toasty double day block on benmage
2. Alchemist block on toasty

2a. Alchemist fake-claimed Sanaki (??) why did Vi flip a sanaki character falsely if alchemist is sanaki

Looks like it comes down to one of these two

Vote: Benmage

[Magister Ludi]

Town from Sanaki? 1. Alchemist (as an alt of Timeater)
Town from BG 2. Teleporting Speed Hippos (AurorusVox + PeregrineV hydra) replacing AurorusVox pregame
Confirmable?? 3. Debonair Danny DiPietro

?? 4. kanyeknowsbest replacing dramonic D2

Town from Play6. Gammagooey
Town from ...7. Glork

Potential Scum 8. Benmage

Town from Ability 9. Hinduragi

?? 11. Katsuki

Town from Cop12. Lady Lambdadelta
Me! 13. Magister Ludi

?? 17. Nikanor

?? 18. Rhinox replacing Oman N2
?? 22. singersigner

Town from big name 24. Tammy
Town 25. Tierce

Blocked, no kill, blocked benmage26. ToastyToast

Town from Mason 29. danakillsu replacing Zdenek D1

I bolded all questionables left, and I redded everyone who has a remote chance of being scum

[Magister Ludi]

6 total anti town roles seems too little.

Id say 2 scum left. Could be 1 scum and some other 3rd party???

But this is not a normal scum game. Scum don't need to get into the majority or even close, they only need to eliminate a pre-set amount of roles. Having too many scum roles would take town far too long to plow through them all, and lead in all likelyhood to a scum victory in every permutation.

[Magister Ludi]

POSTING from a v/la half way across the world in europe

I am

NOT FROM NOT from one of {Bengion, Serenes, Goldoa}.

Repeat, not from those places.

[Magister Ludi]

Why can't toasty be scum? The alchemist block was on toasty, and toasty claims to have blocked benmage town.

[Magister Ludi]

Ok, I read that, am still low access. Still not ready for a vote, need to come to my sense. Lot of people flying about every which way, and I felt exceedingly nervous that scum are near their win con.

[Magister Ludi]

My little chickadee

DIE!!!!!!!

VOTE: DDD

THE SCUM INFORMATION ROLE!!!!

[Magister Ludi]

I've been in europe for the past ~11 days. I don't really have time for this game, or any, but replacing out of the behemoth is not something I could do to anyone. I don't think I have actively avoided any game ever in my history here.

I am not scum.

[Magister Ludi]

Question, has singer been cleared definitely by any role or town player as being town?

Other than that a DDD lynch is very good.

[Magister Ludi]

Uberninja really fucked this town over.

Anyways, good job scum! I thought LLD was a little off for not voting me and declaring me scum solidly at some point, but I really doubted that to the moon and back. And that spyreX lynch really made me sad.