Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[SpyreX]

Why do you have enough opinion for "leaning scum" but not enough for an opinion aside from null even if you have reads?

[Glork]

Good. I never liked baby Jesus anyway.

Note Glork's play towards me the past few pages. He thinks I'm a bothersome bit of dandruff he can sweep off his shoulder. Well guess what. I ain't no dandruff. I'm a bloodsucking mite carrying lethal diseases that will never let go. :3 IMO the Toasty thing is just a nice distraction from his evasive/scummy play. He latched on to it desperately. Even throwing his weight around a little with "Everyone sheep me before it's too late!" But thats just my opinion. Dup, search your feelings. Stop making excuses for Glork's play. There is a reason for it. And ANYWAY. Thanks for reminding me. I'm starting to post too much, aren't I? Sorry. My best scumreads are Ludi, Glork, and Spyre.

I got some extremely strong townreads but I wont list them atm. If you read through my ISO you can probably figure out who they are. Okay. Now that thats out of the way, I've said what I've wanted to say - I wont post for a day or so. There. Not gonna spam the thread. Ohhmmm. Ohmmm. Ohmmm.

For the record, throwing a bunch of rhetoric around might work in games with overall weak playerlists, but you're probably wasting your words here. I've committed two definitive towntells (neither of which were even pointed out by me, but I would agree that they are towntells), and the reason I eased up on you should be obvious -- because someone answered my meta concern (that blowing a lot of steam with little actual substance) is typical for you as town.

If you really want to go thorugh the motions, I don't mind bantering with you for a while and feeding you a giant helping of humble pie in postgame, but if you want to build an actual case against me, with evidence of

why

my play so far is

scummy

, you'd best get around to doing it.


Sidenote -- This sentence:

Even throwing his weight around a little with "Everyone sheep me before it's too late!"

makes me wonder if you've ever actually read me before, despite your claim of respect for me.
If you want to understand Glork throwing his weight around, please read the paragraph of this post that starts with "Furthremore, ..."
Throwing my weight around is what I

do

. It is the very definition of glorkian play. True in 2008. True in 2012.

[Magister Ludi]

@Ludi, no, I don't think it's more scummy to say what I wanted to say when I said it, but hold off on the rest (i.e. townreads, other stuff) until I've talked it through. Scumreads and the like are more time sensitive. If I'd waited until Pere got on, then the stuff that I wanted to say would have been old news, and thus I wouldn't have been able to get what I wanted out of it.
~AV

I think you've misconstrued my point here. I take issue with that fact you a.) didn't post anything, and b.) pointed out you weren't posting anything, as if to excuse yourself. Given that you have since tried to post something #355, without peregrine checking in, your statement of waiting looks even more baloney to me. I never asked you to wait until your other head got in.

At what point after 257 did you begin to think you would have to proceed to posting without consulting your other head (which you explicitly stated you would do)? It is only 18 hours between that and your 355.

you've spammed the thread in your own way.

did I hurt your feelings? are you going to play the wounded soldier now?

If by spam you mean try and figure out who is scum, ask question and comment on what I think is important, then yes I have been doing that.

I don't like the Alchemist votes. They're disingenuous and lazy.

I beg to differ. Why are you calling them disingenuous and lazy? Do you take issue with any other votes so far in the game?

- I think Ludi is scum and from what I gathered Shift agrees, Ludis posts have been very fluff/fillerish with a lot of his questions and focus not really looking as if he's scumhunting but rather just attempting to appear as if he's contributing. His push on Timeater is also terrible and comes across as an OMGUS on a weaker player that's suspecting him.

I've never played with Timeater, I have no idea if he is a weaker player or not, I'm just calling things here as I see them. I think you're off base a little here. I might have asked a few questions only in my first couple of posts, but I've used most of my post since to detail who I think is suspicious, and why.

[Magister Ludi]

Gamma's 447 is also a pretty good find. I don't think singersinger really knows what she is saying here. She puts down a vote on Tammy, and then a few hours (~15) later seemingly forgets where it is, calls tammy super town, and decides to call SpyreX, who was also on the Tammy wagon, scum, and Magua, scum, (who knows why) but doesn't shift her vote to either of them.

[Nikanor]

ML's initial reaction to just FoS Alcheater is pretty scummy and unnecessary. Its pretty forced for so relatively early in a large game to use FoS, but it makes sense as a scum who needs to set-up multiple lynches down the line and is quite happy with is current vote on a juicy mislynch-Tammy (you're wrong SpyreX and Glork and you should feel bad.)

I usually find "why am I town" posts scummy, but,
Why point out Ludi's FoS and not my own?

I could see Dupliscum.

Glork, this is what Timeater is like as town. Read 1 or 2 of your games and you'll notice so.

Didn't you JUST say that Tim is read as town as either alignment when playing by his old meta?

Toasty's probtown. I think that, as scum, he'd attack two of the strongest wagons and then throw in an oddball (singer, Haze or me, for example) to make it look like he actually has opinions that stand out from everyone else's, while still being lazy and exclusively attacking the two strong wagons he mentioned.

[Oversoul]

Spoiler: First Half

Add DDDP - town.

For what reason? His only post at that point was an RVS styled vote on Tierce directly after another player had stated they think the game was out of RVS.

As I have said, I think Tierce's reaction to Quil's list was an overreaction and highly similar to when she bussed me in Paranoia. Yes I know her defense, but I'm not going to let this go for now.

Given the first two pages, I have a townread on Ludi and Alchemist. Minor townreads on Quilford and Zednek, but we'll see how this changes.

Ludi's first question, towards me, looks very genuine and very early scumhunting. Scum would want to sit in RVS for longer as there is a higher possibility a wagon could appear or someone could do something that would attract a lot of attention. Ludi's quick motivations out of RVS are anti-scum.

Alchemist is town for his posting too. His response to Ludi's question about why he is changing his meta looks genuine and his statement that we are out of RVS contradicts what a scum would want this early in the game in my opinion. His suspicion of Ludi also adds to his towniness as Alchemist is already inquisitive about his play, another action that contradicts typical scumplay at this point of the game.

Quilford's response to Tierce, wanting to know more as to why she voted him, and his statement about his meta of doing that (ties into Zed town read) shows that Quilford is unafraid of telling the truth and isn't holding information back.

Zed's initial suspicion of Quilford for posting that reads list is pressure applying play, which combined with the state of the game I find very unlikely to come from scum.

Is a bit of a weird and overly-elaborate response? Its like he's going out of his way for Ludi to defend him/paint him in a positive light with a self-supporting premise (shadowgirl link).

Not particularly. Quilford's analysis of Ludi is pretty similar with the way I think Ludi is playing now.

Quilford, explain your reads on mathgirl in this game and Lewacher in Animal Rescue.

Despite your suspicion of Quilford, you have left your vote on Dramonic. Why was this?

Quil is going way over the top. Wow.

Also;

Ugh, I didn't want to get agro this early. Fuck.

Pretty sure we got scum here.

Why? His aggression if anything shows he doesn't care what people think and believes in the truthfulness of his list.

Making a list like this at the stage in the game when you made it (Post 22) as town is absurd, especially when you bother listing players as null out of RVS votes. Town doesn't really find a need to classify players they don't yet have a read on, while scum would be more likely to present null-reads to show 'effort'.

Maybe I've played a few too many games with Mastin, but this behavior doesn't particularly bother me.

Why would Quilford do that if he could just blend in with the shadows by making a random vote and no reads list? The initiative is town, Tierce.

Are we done with the pointless questioning? Great.

At this point I think we need to take a breather. There really isn't any reason you should be *this* angry Tierce, but then I again I don't know the whole story.

Why can't we be suspicious of your meta? You're asking town to do untowny things simply because you feel yourself to be clearly town.

What do you think of Quilford's aggro comment?

Alchemist what do you think of Tierce's aggression, which is much stronger than Quilford's aggression?

If you were going for lurkers, Katsuki is in this game. ._.

I've read elsewhere that he is on Emergency V/LA or something. I generally like watching Katsuki interact with other players and I hope he'll be able to play.

/offtopic

Gamma's post about the roles and the wincondition I have already explained. I don't really care for his subsequent "posts" that he said after mentioning the winconditions.

Spyrex's push on Tammy has town intent and its premise is unique so I feel that Spy is town. Ludi's comments on the wagon also fortify my townread on him.

I am withholding a townread on Spyrex for a certain reason that I'll explain later, if I am allowed.

Quil's last posts are terrible

Why are the posts "terrible"? Generalizations like this especially on popular topics are highly suspicious and I am looking forward to your explanation of this vote.

Why do you think me saying who I think is a weak spot in this playerlist would benefit town?

Why no pressure on UN for asking Gamma what his "super secret scumtell" is?

I am beginning to become suspicious of Tammy as well. Her whole "don't care" and "I can't change your mind" styled comments in this post looks really similar to scum trying a hands off approach to convince a person that they are innocent caught in a crossfire.

Ohh Tierce its happened already. LET THE HATE FLOW

Found DC's new Red Lantern Corps.

Glork, then what was the basis of your vote?

Or "sarcastic"?

Eh... I can see the sarcasm that she mentioned in that post.

You seem to think I'm an easier target than I am.

Uhh... this actually ties into the aforementioned withholding of Spryex's alignment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tammy

I believe in SpyreX.

You're going to have to do more than this.

Quilford, do you still maintain a townread on King Dedede?

Tammy, legitimate question requiring a legitimate answer.

Are you actually angry this game? Do you feel any guilt over anything?

p:edit
FOS: DDD

Claiming scum, eh? Message received.

Oh god. Are you one of THOSE players? ;_;

Why are pursuing scumreads and defusing wagons on people you think are town exclusive? If you get a lynch on a scumread you shouldn't have to worry about a lynch on one of your townreads, no?

I'm not really seeing the whole reason for "defending" bad players.

Then again, I am pretty sure we've never had a towngame together other than Mafia with the Kitties.

Why do you not have a problem with Oman's vote when it is fairly clear we were out of RVS at the time of that vote? Is it because he has blue eyes?

Tierce, do you think your scumplay is unique to yourself?

I really don't see how you can be angry at Ludi for asking you "who are easy lynch ponies?" and then ask Glork to explain his "not at liberty statement"

Like seriously I don't understand the logic behind those two actions.

Dramonic's reaction to the claim and other things about his posts make me feel he is town.

Glork looks town as well.

Waiiit now I'm having a lapse.

Roles and not PLAYERS?

I think I know why there is confusion.

I'm not going to say anything though until the people in question have explained themselves.

To me, the micaiah win condition of eliminating roles looked anti-town. (I'm not the strongest on flavor, but it would seem to make sense)

What?

Wouldn't it be fairly obvious that it was the antitown wincon because you had the other wincon and you were town?

and I never said I did, but I don't know I'm not scum either.

What the fuck?

Are there any questions.

Yes.

Why did you specifically mention the last two sentences in that post?

VOTE: Tierce

Spoiler: Second half

vote:Spyrex

There's your damn OMGUS...happy?

What the hell Tammy. You are so disheveled this game.

Assertive aggressiveness can be good, and you're fooling yourself if you think I would be mellow and gentle as town in a game with this playerlist in these circumstances.

Need I point you to a thread in MD about town leaders? Sometimes being a person who isn't in the limelight is a good idea. Would you not agree?

Tammy, I hope this game doesn't dissuade you from playing in others. You look actually mad and as if you aren't having fun and I am sorry if I caused that by asking you to play.

Also, why are people sheeping me? Do they know I haven't played in years? I AM NOT A BAROMETER ANY MORE, especially not for ex Paragons.

My feelings are shared. Townpoints that you pointed this out yourself.

What part of this post makes you people think that Tammy is scum?

(For those who don't like to read things, I bolded the sections I found to be particularly good at outlining the issue.)

That seems unusually nice and not generally LLDlike.

Glork is... to be dealt with another day. There's nothing glaringly scummy about anything he's done (the claim business was pretty kinda sorta town), and I have other reasons to leave him alone for now.

What are you talking about? Glork looks fairly town from his "claim" and his other posts in the thread.

Errrr what?

I dont think it was her

intent

for there to be any attention.

That doesnt change the result of it. Not scum intention, but scum mindset.

In some kinda irony overload youve landed your vote on someone that statement would absolutely apply to IF that statement actually had depth.

UberNinja's intent is skewed by the fact that he was able to hop onto a viable wagon from it.

It's no longer a "will this draw attention to me" intent issue, but a "let me hop onto this wagon" intent issue.

A lot of the things Tammy said are just not something I could ever conceive scum saying. They are the kinds of things that guarantee you'll be getting votes.

You see what I'm getting at?

I don't like this post from LLD because she comes in and goes after easy mislynch Uber and then defends the primary suspect Tammy which I feel a lot of scum do.

Nikanor thats scummy as fuck. Its like OS just fucking summoned you with toast magic.

I did. Did you not see the swirling sparkles and purple smoke?

~It's magic

Singersinger and Oversoul – with the thread being open less than 24 hours and some people not active on weekends regularly why are both of you worried about why some players have yet to post?

It wasn't so much that I was "worried" whether or not some players have posted. It is that I wanted those players to post. I wanted them to post because I wanted to have fun/joke around with them.

Tierce's complete and utter confusion over flavor / win conditions is very likely genuine, as I'd expect her to tighten up the flavor screws before the game started if she were scum. Please move your vote somewhere more useful. Hell, I'd rather it be on me than Tierce at this point.

No.

If given the chance (beyond my control at this point) I will explain more, but no. That is not good logic to use when justifying *anyone* as town.

And I seem to remember her being confused about "characters" versus "roles". Where was the flavor confusion?

Even if it WERE the case I flat out deny the floating background theory that this is a scum move tryin to make it easy - especially by both of them. D1 in a setup like this its tantamount to death in a myriad of ways tryin to throw out the seeker claim.

I see the logic behind this, but it crumbles once you throw in the variable of

lying

.

That makes it pretty clear all along I assumed it was normal world and they were looking for players. Tierce kept using the word role like a crazy person which made me take a doubletake.

Crazy person?

The fucking wincondition says

roles

. It's pretty obvious that Vi interchangeably used roles and players/characters (your role is your character) and the fact that Tierce was "confused" about that is such crap.

Or, to put this a different way: if that wincon wasn't listed do you think 1.) there'd have been any issues or 2.) the game would be unbalanced by us not knowing?

It is essentially a modified scum + lyncher/usurper wincondition and is clearly doing just as much harm as "good" since it is public.

Regardless it gave me an interesting idea.

Unvote
Vote: Hinduragi

He's mostly just sniping at people and his votes have sucked.

I agree with this. Hindu hasn't really done anything in the way of making me feel he is town.

I dislike Toast for much the same reason I dislike LLD although he has a scumread on Tierce and Tammy which I like.

Duplicity, Shift specifically, what do you think of Tierce's meta announcement? What do you think of Alchemists's meta announcement?

More confident in SpyreX town than Glork town; I think I've played two games with Glork and he was town both times and I don't really know how to read him, I've seen SpyreX enough times to be pretty damn sure he's town here.

For what it's worth, Glork hasn't played scum since he retired.

Tammy, the problem I have with you is that you stated you didn't care about Spyrex and that you were only acting in sarcasm, yet when people pressured you, you capitulated. Why did you vote yourself and then give Spyrex your omgus when you said you weren't caring about him?

Haze's entrance to the game is very town. He votes Toasty for a valid reason and his response to Gamma looks genuine as well as his questions toward Ludi which bring up a point I hadn't considered.

So you're suggesting that the crap they were giving each other is bussing startin from page 2?

I wouldn't be surprised if it involved Tierce.

The post that this quote came from is very good by the way and strengthens my opinion that Haze is town quite a bit.

~AV

From this post I am going to say that TSH is town.

Definitely scum among here given the main wagons are all town.

I don't understand how you can say that considering everything that was (or wasn't) posted.

Okay. What did you learn from my answer?

Well Initially I thought your answer more likely to come from town than scum. Calling someone town when they're attacking you is pretty dangerous because that means you basically have to roll with their attacks on you without trying to slime their character. That's a much easier way to defend an attack, by forcing the status of the attacking player down, then defending against their attacks while stile building their character up.

I actually prefer to do this as scum for this exact reason.

See my flip flopping but overall mainly calling Hezlucky town in Paranoia Mafia. It buys you needed time and can potentially build connections for after your death for further mislynching.

I'm not trying to discredit what you say here, but I personally don't think this is a good reason to call someone town.

Also I found the phrasing of 'one MAYBE two people stood out as townies that need their hand held' as incredibly awkward.

In what way?

- The Tammy wagon is wrong, I know where it's coming from but it's just wrong. I've played with her quite a bit off-site and while Tammy is a very analytical player she reacts poorly towards being voted or suspected as town, it's just her M-O she tends to consider each vote on her as an insult in some form and her emotional outburst is extremely town. Also the "You're so awesome at reading me" to SpyreX is explained enough by her mention of SpyreX misreading her previously in #82 and actually makes quite a bit of sense.

If someone know there meta, then they can manipulate. Thats the main problem I have with all the BS meta defenses people are getting this game.

Major FoS: ToastyToast

I agree with Toasty's comment, and is that why you are super suspicious of him, Glork?

I actually used this effectively recently.

That little blue number just went up by 2 so I guess both theories can be quashed about it being a death counter.

[Glork]

TIERCE IS NOT SCUM, PLEASE PUT YOUR VOTE SOMEWHERE USEFUL.

Also interested to see a response from singer re: gamma's 447.

[singersigner]

okay no.

Unvote, Vote:singersigner

These two posts do NOT make sense together.

Aaayeup:

Also, there are at least four people I wouldn't hesitate bandwagoning/hammering today and/or tomorrow if given the opportunity. Regardless of what I actually think their alignment is. Cheers.

^in regards to why she's still voting Tammy (and she still is btw)

Yeah ok I didn't really feel like mafia-ing today so not really sure why I promised I'd add commentary hours ago. Oh well.

SpyreX is scummy because he's been the most noticeable pusher of Tammy who's obviously town and I think he's either stupid for it or trying to push for a seemingly easy mislynch. ... I don't think he's stupid.

Uuuh...no guarantees that I'll get around to it tomorrow but chances are higher since I'll want to do it before I won't be able to at all on Tuesday. Cross your fingers.

saying spyrex is scummy for pushing for an easy mislynch while you are voting that same person because you don't care if they're scum or town?
absolutely no.

...

I think you should reread my posts...and then reread what exactly you think doesn't make sense...because it makes perfect sense with any logical deduction of what I meant in the first one, and what I'm telling you in the second one. As soon as Tammy isn't the leading wagon, I'd be willing to switch my vote

if you know what I mean

.

[singersigner]

Also interested to see a response from singer re: gamma's 447.

NINJA'D. ;_;

YOU GUYS ARE MAKING ME PAY ATTENTION WHEN I DON'T WANT TO. D:

[Gammagooey]

but you aren't even putting in any effort to get someone else lynched

i had to ask you who was scum since you didn't mention anyone except Tammy in your early posts and you're saying that spy is pushing on it for an easy mislynch when you had to be coaxed to say who was scum while you rested your vote on someone you think is overwhelmingly town?

how does everything you just said about spyrex being scum not apply to you even moreso?

[Magister Ludi]

I think you should reread my posts...and then reread what exactly you think doesn't make sense...because it makes perfect sense with any logical deduction of what I meant in the first one, and what I'm telling you in the second one. As soon as Tammy isn't the leading wagon, I'd be willing to switch my vote if you know what I mean.

I don't know what you mean. Are you saying you want Tammy dead but think she is obviously town?

[Gammagooey]

pretty sure from what i'm getting from her posts she thinks tammy is obviously town but wants her dead anyway because she's annoying i guess

which i dont think is that bad on its own but combined with saying spy is pushing on tammy for an easy mislynch it just screams dissonance to me

[Magister Ludi]

I actually prefer to do this as scum for this exact reason.

See my flip flopping but overall mainly calling Hezlucky town in Paranoia Mafia. It buys you needed time and can potentially build connections for after your death for further mislynching.

I'm not trying to discredit what you say here, but I personally don't think this is a good reason to call someone town.

Yeah, anything is possible for scum to do as well as town. But I think it would more likely come from Tammy as town than as scum. Note, Its not the sole reason I would call anyone town, but it does help contribute a little. I don't think Tammy and SpyreX are of the same scum alignment, so a potential tammy scum calling spyrex town just creates a crapload of headaches for the scum team if tammy ever flips, which tammy would probably be aware of.

~~~

Good catch by the way on the blue number going up to two. Also, give me your thoughts on the Speed Hippos that happen to be teleporting!

[Oversoul]

Ludi, look in the first half of the wall. There was some confusion about the wincondition that I want you to clarify.

Glork, why is Tierce town?

[singersigner]

but you aren't even putting in any effort to get someone else lynched

i had to ask you who was scum since you didn't mention anyone except Tammy in your early posts and you're saying that spy is pushing on it for an easy mislynch when you had to be coaxed to say who was scum while you rested your vote on someone you think is overwhelmingly town?

how does everything you just said about spyrex being scum not apply to you even moreso?

I'm in Scotland and didn't give a shit? I read up to page 14, didn't have the energy to add my thoughts but bookmarked where I was and what I wanted to comment on (maybe you missed that), and for some reason keep refreshing the page now that I went back to check the Newbie Queue.
..
I did not have to be coaxed to say who was scum. You asked. I answered.

Re: SpyreX...I don't know that he isn't above policy lynches like I am. He seems to legitimately try to be pushing someone who seems pretty clearly town (versus someone you might find, as you say, "annoying"). If he didn't act so "sure" that she was scum, but was still on her wagon, I wouldn't think twice about it. But because he is actively pushing it, I find it scummy. He was the one who stood out to me and when I have the energy, I'll actually comment on the posts I noted earlier and point out why...I think...

Preview Edit:
Struck the fairly irrelevant part due to your latest post, but the SpyreX explanation still stands.

I'd also point out that you seem to expect me to be paying attention to everything right now...which I'm clearly not. From my read and without analyzing my posts, that's what I got. Meh. I don't even know you scumreads right now but I can't be fucked to care.

[Magister Ludi]

@Oversoul Well, I initially thought that M win condition came from some outside third party with some specific job of eliminating roles (like some sort of serial killer)

[SpyreX]

Tammy, even if she's not scum, still isn't town.

Just throwing that out there and that makes the basis of ANYTHING revolving around ohhh SpyreX so bad Tammy so good absolute crackerjacks

[Glork]

Ludi, look in the first half of the wall. There was some confusion about the wincondition that I want you to clarify.

Glork, why is Tierce town?

Already been over this. Do some legwork, please.

[singersigner]

Alright, at this point I'm just gunna say see you on Wednesday because I'm just clearly not into this game right now. I'm too addicted to not having threads "unread" and my inbox clean. -_-

@Mod...V/LA til Wednesday

Cheers.

Preview Edit:
ffs, I can't even...NOT RESPONDING NOW SEE YOU LATER BAI.

[Oversoul]

@Oversoul Well, I initially thought that M win condition came from some outside third party with some specific job of eliminating roles (like some sort of serial killer)

Mhm...

[Magister Ludi]

what does mhm mean?

I reread that point in the game to know what I was thinking, as well. Rereading, it should be patently clear what I was thinking. At that point, several people were claiming to be people searching for other roles, (there were two or three I believe) and I reasoned that no scum would be stupid enough to claim that they were scum (by claiming to be looking for roles), and that maybe the role was somehow tied into being town as well.

It was some little time later when someone posted that it is probably the scum win condition, a little conversation ensued, and that made sense to me.

[Oversoul]

The confusion bit?

I don't buy it.

Ludi, did you read what

I

said?

There should be no doubt that the first wincondition was the town wincondition and the second one was the scum wincondition because you would have had the town wincondition.

Why would Vi give the INDEPENDENT serial killer's wincondition? Its anonymity is key to it's survival.

There is no reason you should have been confused about the wincondition if you were town.

[Glork]

Confusion bit + pseudo softclaim + the fact that it's pretty widely known that Tierce is very uncomfortable playing scum.

They just do not add up to TierceScum. In any universe.

[Magister Ludi]

I do have the town win condition. What was not clear was whether the second win condition was a third party, was scum, or was also tied into the town as well. At that point in the game you quoted, people were CLAIMING to be searching for other people, and I already explained why this made me question things. Not many games have the potential scum win condition out in the open like that. I think it was perfectly reasonable as per post ~140 in a game I know no flavor to to wonder what the second win condition was about.

(It didn't have to be a single entity, either for the third party. could be something like brotherhood without banners, the hyenas for Llama's game, etc.. A gang group)

[Oversoul]

Not many games have the potential scum win condition out in the open like that.

Because most of them are considered the general wincondition?

Glork, I'll let that sentiment bite you in the ass later.

Tierce's crap with Quilford is almost fucking identical to the bussing she did to me in Paranoia Mafia.

Overzealous accusation against another player (maybe her buddy although I doubt it from Quil's play) and then biting her tongue and accepting the person she was vehemently pushing is town once others start chiming in about her actions and the actions of the person she is accusing.