Consulmaker II: the Pyrrhic War - Game over.

[Parama]

I've been reading along but haven't done much in the way of looking for scum myself (few have).
I'll reread and see what I can come up with.

[Parama]

and by reread I mean when I ACTUALLY reread tomorrow

[Parama]

Parama, mind some thoughts?

I would, but I have a life and haven't had time to reread the thread. I'll reread after I check all the games I'm currently in/reading.

[Parama]

And lookie that. I'm so tired from all these other games that I'm going to take a short break from anything mafia related (an hour or two maybe). I WILL GET SOMETHING UP TONIGHT, I PROMISE.

[Parama]

Rabies is scum
Primate is town
Jack is town
ribwich is town
Lowell is town
Nathanael is scum
SensFan is town
Mert is town
chamber is scum

SpyreX is scum

dramonic is town

scotmany is scum

Powerrox is scotmany is scum
Reck is scum

Additional:
The Nath read is partly because of his fail logic, but I've come to expect that from the player. However, it's especially bad in this game - he's pretty much trying to line up lynches from the looks of things. Bleh I probably didn't say that the way I wanted to but whatever.
I do not like inHim's #74 but am unsure if it's coming from town or scum. It gives bad vibes either way.
I don't understand why people think one of the consuls is scum. Jack is obvtown for claiming in the first place and ribwich is obvtown for ccing. Town CAN lie y'know.
Poro is in this game? What?
Nath 122 calls something that wasn't an attack an attack. Paranoid much? OH LOOK HE VOTES MY OTHER SCUM READ FOR TRIBUNE SOON AFTER. DING DING DING DING DING PARAMA WINS AGAIN. EDIT: He even re-votes later. Uuuuuh.
The presence of "Oh this started" posts is making me angry at the mod(s), because absent players cost the town a lot of info in the early days of the game.
If one of the Consuls IS scum, it's probably Jack. Except that's what Rabies also said. Hmm. More reason to believe they're both town.
The SpyreX posts have all given me bad vibes which means I am being betrayed by the POWERFUL WIZARD I once betrayed and killed Probably the weakest of my scum reads though.
This thread feels like an argument between 5 people. This is not good at all.
Whee, dramonic's reads in 224 are mostly mine backwards! He's probably town
Reck is being annoying with the not posting thing.
Noting Reck's 306 for a post I remembered him making later on... I sense a scum read incoming.
scot's 324 gives me those bad vibes, but not too an extent that I'm willing to consider him a scum read. Yet. Also page 13 is a gigantic waste of time. I'm so glad chesskid got replaced. EDIT: Okay, welcome to the scumlist, scot. The logic you're posting is on a 3rd-grade level and if you're not scum then you really need to develop critical thinking skills.
I hope the nonposters actually do something in this game. Lurker executions will start on D2 if I have any say in the matter.
SpyreX is making me happier now but I'll keep an eye on him.
Oh god Powerrox is using scot-logic too. Except it's worse.
Response inHim 376: Oh good play.
Ribwich you really aren't doing much other than arguing with Jack so
WHAT THE HELL. HORROR IS IN THIS GAME TOO? HE HASN'T FREAKING POSTED. THIS GAME IS INACTIVITY HELL.
Reck 390... lol you're so

silly

scummy. I mean, FLUFF POST is bad logic. Fluff happens when scum add useless things to posts to make them look longer and more content filled than they are. Single line posts that add nothing are either active lurking or being social, and dram's post there was the latter.

So let's see...
We have 1 scum consul and 1 scum tribune.

...
I hate you all. We can't really lynch scum today, can we?
REGARDLESS,

vote: Rabies

(as if it matters).

[Parama]

...
REALLY. We're really going to go there, scot?
@chamber: I'd tell you, but I forgot which posts I didn't like and I'm too lazy to find them atm so maybe I'll tell you tomorrow. Needless to say you're not the top of my suspicions list atm so I barely care.

[Parama]

Did you read my post? It was right above that.

[Parama]

Oh we can multivote?

vote chamber

vote Nathanael

vote Powerrox

vote Reck

[Parama]

That's different - just because he's not going to execute you doesn't mean he doesn't suspect you.

[Parama]

EXECUTE: Nathanael!

yes, I know I am unlynchable. I just wanted to draw attention to how scummy I am.

[Parama]

Mod: When is the deadline for Day 1?

[Parama]

Sensfan, you dropped your sunglasses.

[Parama]

Yeah this is a good execution.

[Parama]

We don't need more time. Katsuki quit, which means Katsuki needs to be deadkat.

[Parama]

^scum posting

[Parama]

^smear campaign

[Parama]

And I'll make sure it's vetoed.

[Parama]

Hello Feysal!

Your idea about the conculmakers looks good. Let's use that idea.

Hi scum.

[Parama]

This is great news

[Parama]

i hope u die

[Parama]

It could be because of [REDACTED - ONGOING GAME]

[Parama]

VETO: KATSUKI'S EXECUTION

we are not executing Katsuki today.

EXECUTE: Parama

Tasky's pissed that I nailed his scumbuddies, eh?

[Parama]

inHim, I dream of executing Tasky first chance I get tomorrow. He's obvious scum, and obviously not scum with Katsuki.

[Parama]

Well durr. He's playing like an idiot and trying to make himself look like scum with Kats by delaying the lynch as much as possible, knowing that he can't get lynched today. If Kats flips town after several execution delays, he gets townpoints for delaying the lynch. If he flips scum before Kats dies, Kats looks like obvious scum to him because of how much he delayed the lynch.

Good plan in theory, except that EVERYONE DOES IT and he played it quite poorly, producing the opposite effect intended - Kats is obvtown in the event of a Tasky scumflip, and Tasky himself is quite obvious scum.

Tasky: If you want to please us all, execute Power. You executed me without a moment's notice and you're merely FoSing obvious scum Powerrox. Lynch him today so we can get you tomorrow. 2 scum down in 2 lynches is always great fun.

[Parama]

Lol.
Anyways bye scum. Tasky we can get you tomorrow when you're

not consul

[Parama]

I'll answer

when I give damn

.
I'm not going to bother pushing a case on someone who's unlynchable today.

What pro-scum reason would there be for lying about being consulmaker?

[Parama]

vote: Primate

vote: Sensfan

ftfw
Consul picks are bad, both consulmakers are still town, etc.

[Parama]

You only get one tribunal vote, Parama. If you want to Pseudo-vote, you should make that clear.

mmk

vote: Primate

[Parama]

You mean confirmed town consulmaker?
Yeah, I think it's a fairly good idea.

[Parama]

Yeah the picks could've been better (scot as consul? Really???)

[Parama]

This is the boring game.

[Parama]

*snore*

[Parama]

I really see no reason why we should not execute one of {Jack, ribwich}. As none of them took their claim back, it is clear that one of them has to be scum.
Since lynching the consulmaker is in no way worse than lynching a VT, we basically have a 50% chance of hitting scum without any drawback. you will never get such a high

a priori

(that is, without relying on scum/town-tells) percentage elsewhere.

And if both are town, we just lost two lynches based on a flawed dichotomy. Why you pushed the consulmaker lynch on D1 is beyond me.

PS:

FoS: chesskid

, for his nonsense-attack on me.

This supposed "attack" was chesskid (my player slot) saying he disagreed with Nathanael's tribune vote on Lowell (in less subtle language, of course.) That he took it as an attack is scum paranoia.

case two, Jack and ribwich are scum: the consulmaker chooses one out of each group, best case both consuls survive and we know two scum, worst case one consul dies and we lynch one of {Jack, ribwich} (the one who's group the consul was not in). extremely unlikely worst case, both consuls die, in this case we look at the players who died, if there are only two players, it's as if we had the consuls, and will know everything. should there be three deaths, probably the third consulmaker should out himself

this is plain and simple filler. there is no way 2 scum would both claim consulmaker and cc each other.

case three, Jack and ribwich are both town. I am not going to consider this case because in this case one of them is a complete idiot. the only possible way this could be, is if the mod had forced one townie to claim consulmaker. (

mod, is there anything bastardly in this game?

)

Watch and learn:
Jacktown claims consulmaker to cover for the real consulmaker and try to attract a kill as a VT.
Ribwichtown the idiot ccs because he is unable to process this simple thought process and ruins the entire point of Jack's claim.
That Nath doesn't even try and consider this option FROM HIS POSITION shows that he's aiming towards the dichotomy and is scum trying to set up two mislynches based on claims alone. Even a 3rd grader has enough of the brain to come up with the solution, "Oooh they could both be town right? right? Riiiight?"

FoS: SensFan

This random FoS now gives Nath the ability to veto every single lynch Sens tried to push without looking bad for it. Clever, huh?

VETO: chesskid's execution.

PS: SensFan is scum.

Like that! See? Seeeeee?
It's funny because Nath put up that FoS of chesskid earlier, and chesskid doesn't tend to do much to get rid of those. It's like he's forgetting his own reads OH WAIT.

why do you think that SensFan is town?

Why do you think SensFan is scum? Saying something over and over doesn't make it true.

Parama, mind some thoughts?

Yes I would and I did and I have no clue why you asked this less than 24 hours after I replaced in even after I promised to put up content shortly after which I did oh joy. It's like you're looking for reasons to suspect me

EXECUTE: SensFan!

Spoiler: ...

yes, I know he is unlynchable. I just wanted to draw attention to how scummy he is.

Still don't see any explanation.

VETO: KATSUKI's EXECUTION

EXECUTE: KATSUKI

"LET'S MAKE IT LOOK LIKE ME AND KATS ARE SCUM TOGETHER SO THAT:
A. If Kats gets lynched, I look like town for trying to delay the lynch!
B. If I get lynched, Kats looks like my scumbuddy!"
Yeah. I already went over this.

VETO: KATSUKI'S EXECUTION

EXECUTE: KATSUKI

see above

VETO: KATSUKI'S EXECUTION

we are not executing Katsuki today.

EXECUTE: Parama

'nuff said

Also, Parama is the most obv-town player in the game FFS.

tell me how Parama is obv-town!

tell me why you think I'm scum?
You do nothing but ask questions of people without providing answers yourself.

vote: Nathanael

P.S. thanks for refreshing my memory, I'd forgotten everything I remember about this game

[Parama]

PS: I know you will dismiss this as OMGUS, but I don't care. Parama's attack on me is just nonsense. I have seen him play town, he was quite awesome and found all scum.

vote, Parama

And this is where everything you say is completely discredited.
Seriously.

[Parama]

And this is where everything you say is completely discredited.
Seriously.

I disagree. I've never played with you and can't chime in on if he's even right about this, but if you're someone that normally is very good at catching scum, using those kinds of arguments as a reason to suggest someone is scum does make it a fairly good chance you could be scum.

this is the game we were in together until a few weeks ago: click

I'm still good at catching scum y'know

[Parama]

Can we execute ribwich? Pleeeeease?

[Parama]

It's because Reck is scum.

[Parama]

yes yes no thanks in advance

[Parama]

Lowell and Parama will not be lynched ever.

fix'd
Nathanael, you have yet to say why I'm scum. Or why anyone is scum, for that matter. This is why YOU are the scum. If I ever get elected consul, you're going down ASAP

[Parama]

I'M NOT CONSUL WTF.
OH BTW RECK WAS SCUM THOUGH I WAS WRONG ABOUT DRAM OH WELL.

vote: SensFan

[Parama]

I am not a country I am not a country I am not a country I am not a country

After yesterday, anyone voting ribwich for tribune deserves a bullet to the face.

[Parama]

unvote, vote: Parama

[Parama]

Sens just lost some of his townpoints.

[Parama]

scotmany12 here, just going to point out the exact same thing Parama did except make it completely obvious what the problem is in case you are blind or cannot read for some reason, 'cause, y'know, I need to make it look like I'm doin' something.

[Parama]

Nathanael, only you think the attack's BS, and for all I know, that could be because you really are scum and can't believe I nailed you so quickly.
Your only reason is that I nailed scum so easily in 1079, though. It's not like I haven't nailed scum yet this game - hiiii Reck you're so easy to read - but not every mafia game is a miracle y'know.

[Parama]

I don't care about your good books considering you're not in mine.

[Parama]

@Parama:

Who do you think is more likely scum, scotmany or SpyreX?

Scotmany, but it's a tough choice. I might have to reread the two. Which means I probably won't do it, but

[Parama]

Oh don't worry scot, Nath is scum and his reads can change as much as they want to as a result.

[Parama]

@Fonz's last post: Taking that quote out of context, I don't even remember what I was saying there. Care to remind me?

[Parama]

1. both.
2. tell me.

[Parama]

unvote, vote: The Fonz

2 tribunes > 1 retarded tribune

[Parama]

Ribwich [5] (Nathanael, Lowell, Ribwich, Magua, Jack)

BTW at least 2 scum voting Rib here, Nath is one and Jack may be the other.

[Parama]

Well if I had to pick 2 from that wagon...
ribwich is confirmed town
Nathanael is scum
Magua (Katsuki) is not scum with Nathanael
Lowell is not scum with Nathanael

so it must be Jack.
And there are 2 scum on your tribune wagon btw.

[Parama]

Hmm now that I'm rethinking... there's probably 2 scum left, maaaaaybe 3 but it's less likely, so the scum probably aren't voting together on the tribune wagon.
So Jack probably isn't scum since Nathanael is.

[Parama]

Nath: Then you must've missed the towniest post in the game (which I made.)

[Parama]

No, it's me noticing that OH WAIT 2 SCUM ARE DEAD HURRR.

[Parama]

I can't believe people are missing the towniest post in the game.

[Parama]

This is a 19-player game, actually.

[Parama]

Two groups is out of the question. 6 scum in a 19-player game is incredibly unbalanced. Plus, look at the game name... <_<
SK is possible, though still not very likely.

[Parama]

Let's kill Nath and do it fast.

[Parama]

Glad you're not consul then.

[Parama]

No, it's me noticing that OH WAIT 2 SCUM ARE DEAD HURRR.

Seems pretty convenient that you noticed that right after I started questioning you, but whatever.

'tis because I noticed after you asked.

[Parama]

Not really.

[Parama]

vote: Primate

Can we execute Nath today? Pleeeease?

[Parama]

Rib is such a worthless player.

[Parama]

I mean really.
Nath is obviously scum. Why he's alive is beyond me.
Aside from the fact that I made the most townie post in the game...

[Parama]

Nobody has asked.
Literally. Nobody at all.

[Parama]

If YOU'RE asking, though:

unvote, vote: The Fonz

2 tribunes > 1 retarded tribune

Context: Me and Fonz were tied for the tribune vote

[Parama]

Now help lynch Nath.

[Parama]

Okay.
I think it makes me 100% confirmed town in every mafia game I've ever played.
Now we have standards, and it can be a huge towntell regardless of your previous statement.

[Parama]

I wouldn't know if scum would do it to make themselves look better since I'm town, but it does sacrifice some sort of power thing, and I don't know if scum would be willing to do that. I mean, lynch-immunity and the ability to veto a lynch? That's very appealing to scum.

[Parama]

Okay, I'll change my argument. Do scum want town to have that power? Nope.

[Parama]

Tribunal power = lynch immunity btw

[Parama]

Nitpicking about sentence structures tends to lead to mislynches.

Plus, Fonz is the most obvious townie on the face of the planet.

[Parama]

SensFan, can you tell me where you began to think I was scum?

[Parama]

I kinda want to lynch lowell. I think this is all an act from him.

Y'know what I think I agree with this 100% now. He's using his "meta" as an excuse to not do anything when he is fully capable of at least some for of, y'know, actually playing the game.
Nath is the other scum, so this one's wrapped up good IMO.

[Parama]

You have been executed.

I didn't know you can post from ~24 hours into the future!

[Parama]

Vote: Fonz

[Parama]

The same guy can be consul twice... see SensFan for example <.<

[Parama]

Fonz should have a comfortable majority.

Unvote, Vote: Feysal

Nat rode the Jack town train way too hard. That, combined with the next day towel-around-head approach is what got me.

one tribune only, pal.

[Parama]

okay so the last scums are Feysal and Nath, gg.

[Parama]

^this is how scum push lynches

[Parama]

@Parama:

Who is scum with Nathanael?

Check the post I made exactly 1 day and 8 minutes ago, please.

[Parama]

MOD: FIX THAT TAG PLEASE

[Parama]

I'm not responding to any of it, so it's definitely wasted.

[Parama]

VETO: KATSUKI's EXECUTION

EXECUTE: KATSUKI

"LET'S MAKE IT LOOK LIKE ME AND KATS ARE SCUM TOGETHER SO THAT:
A. If Kats gets lynched, I look like town for trying to delay the lynch!
B. If I get lynched, Kats looks like my scumbuddy!"
Yeah. I already went over this.

This is the point I hate most of all. This is one of those catch-22 points where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Here Parama is obviously working from the assumption that Nathanael is scum, and only considers anti-town motives for his delaying. First of all, delaying the execution to allow for more discussion is a pro-town thing to do. It is ridiculous to say that Nathanael was trying to delay the execution so that there would be no time for discussion close to deadline, when if he had not delayed it there would have been no discussion at all. Eventually powerrox93 was executed two days before deadline, and not because there was no time for discussion. It was more like discussion dried up.

...

This also reminds me to note how dramonic, confirmed scum, was saying how obvtown chesskid3 and Parama were. Repeatedly. There were some more things to my case on Parama too, read it in full if you like in #840.

IT KEEPS HAPPENING! THE SCUM, THEY FLOCK TO ME LIKE SHEEP!

I would suggest executing Parama.

I love the wording here. It says:
"Hmm, you should probably kill him for these reasons I've outlined, but I will take no blame myself when he flips town, so it's win-win for me as scum. Yay."
Yeah.

I lied about not responding to anything because this is too funny.

[Parama]

I said before that Parama was a good execution since his death would give insight into the motives of two players. I should add myself as a third. I've made it clear in no uncertain terms that I would execute Parama. Make of that what you will.

This makes it seem like you only want to execute me for associations, and not because you think I'm scum.
Shockingly enough, you don't think I'm scum because you're scum yourself, so it's half-true.

[Parama]

I actually want to execute Feysal more than Nath now.
It takes serious skill to be THAT scummy.

[Parama]

Yeah guys can we please execute Feysal today?

[Parama]

MOD: There's a chance my power may go out soon due to freezing rain, so consider me V/LA for the next 4 days. I'll keep posting if I don't lose power, of course.

[Parama]

Does anyone else find it strange that nate claimed VT instead of Roman Senator?

There are no words to express how bad this is.
So instead, have some smilies.

[Parama]

Scumbuddies never call each other obvtown if nobody else is calling either of them obvtown.
There goes half your case.
Also I've done plenty of scumhunting, like catching you.

[Parama]

Hey Feysal! inHim and Primate both flipped town! There goes your argument... AGAIN!

[Parama]

...

vote: ribwich

[Parama]

All I should say is, "DAMMIT, I SHOULD'VE LISTENED TO MY GUT ON SPYREX."
Because now I look terrible, but oh well. We have several more chances to lynch scum anyways.

[Parama]

BTW, I fully endorse my own lynch today. Otherwise there will be screaming and crying of "OMG PARAMA IS SCUM" until LyLo (assuming scum lives until then) and I don't want to have to deal with that, frankly. Feysal's case was crap. Nathanael was an antimiller. That's all there is to say on that matter.

[Parama]

Looking at playerlist...

6. The Fonz
obvtown

7. ribwich
conf town

8. Magua
scummy

10. SensFan
scummy

14. Shanba
probably town

15. Parama
obvtown

17. scotmany12
probably town

so yeah once you all waste a lynch on me, just kill off Magua and Sens and this game should be won for the town.

[Parama]

Can we just execute someone already?

[Parama]

BTW, I fully endorse my own lynch today. Otherwise there will be screaming and crying of "OMG PARAMA IS SCUM" until LyLo (assuming scum lives until then) and I don't want to have to deal with that, frankly. Feysal's case was crap. Nathanael was an antimiller. That's all there is to say on that matter.

[Parama]

Sorry, we're all out of the cheese because your arguments against me used it all up.

I am that lame.

[Parama]

Wine are you arguing about my cheese?

[Parama]

IMO all day deadlines should be no more than 1 week because otherwise games will move too slow to actually lynch scum.

[Parama]

Neither d(''d)

[Parama]

Can we just execute someone already?

I refer back to this post and reaffirm that I still hold this same stance, whether the person executed is me, Magua, or Sens. Everyone else should be offlimits anyways.

[Parama]

No one seems to want to contribute.

There really isn't much to say. With this few players, and this far into the game, days don't need to be two friggin' weeks long <_<

[Parama]

welp. gg Fonz and Shanba, you were both the bottom of my scumlist out of the remaining players besides our confirmed town consulmaker so.
hell the entire scumteam did a damn good job at evading my scumdar completely. Except Reck.

[Parama]

Ok reading that graveyard HEY FEYSAL YOU WERE LEGTIMATELY SCUMMY, GET OVER IT.
Also I should stop replacing into games... I don't think I've ever won a game I replaced into.

[Parama]

OK then, counter-argument: The way I was playing in this game was just my playstyle, so I wasn't scummy.

(P.S. - I really don't usually play like this, but if Feysal gets that excuse, so do I.)

[Parama]

@Feysal: Skimming your hatepost, you don't even know what VI is, so whatever. I must be bad at being a VI if my track record is any indication.

[Parama]

I don't remember .-.