Mini 983: It Got Worse (GAME OVER)

[Amished]

The only fear of God will be coming from me, SPS. I really want SK afraid.

Vote: UncertainKitten

There's no way she's town.

[Amished]

Red, I think we coulda won that game.

Llama, what makes you say that syke is not a player?

[Amished]

Aww, but we can't lynch "Queen of the third party roles" if we don't bandwagon UK

I'll

Unvote
Vote: Nikanor

to help out with the OMGUS+

[Amished]

BETTER DEAD THAN ED.

NUH UH

[Amished]

Also:

Mod: V/LA until Monday

[Amished]

Response: Square root of 2

I have no clue what the hell SP is doing, Llama's line of questioning was totally legit and what I'd expect from him.

Where the hell did RayFrost go? My Frosty buddy, come back!

Unvote
Vote: SocioPath

Just making sure my vote is there.

[Amished]

I think that the mod is a pansy and should place a vote. Not voting is clearly anti-town. He's also active lurking.

Amished gains a point for being a pansy.

[Amished]

I'll Pariah your pariah >_>

I don't see Llama-scum at all Socio, why are you so focused on him?

[Amished]

Well, since you seem to be great at attacking townies, keep attacking whomever you want to?

I don't see in any way, shape or form how you see Llama as scummy. Push or forfeit your arms.

[Amished]

magnus! You are in the game..

Most scummy thing to happen thusfar IYO?

[Amished]

@m_o: I kinda see what you mean.. If you had a one-shot day-investigation that would be mod "confirmed" to the whole town, who would it be on?

[Amished]

How often have you played with him?

[Amished]

I have no clue what the hell SP is doing, Llama's line of questioning was totally legit and what I'd expect from him.

Do you think he's being overly aggressive? What about Nikanor? Are either of these players deliberately misleading?

Depends on who "he" is. Llama isn't being over-aggressive. SP is being overly confrontational in my eyes. That's not exactly the word I want to use but it's like he's posturing and throwing suspicion on anybody that casts any doubt or suspicion on him {SP}.

Nikanor seems more passive as the "recipient" of some buddying by SP, but then not saying much. I can't really hold this against him specifically, though, since there's quite a few people that have flown under my radar thusfar (magnus being an obvious recent example).

I'd say SP is being intentionally unhelpful and mysterious, but not really misleading.

[Amished]

I think that the mod is a pansy and should place a vote. Not voting is clearly anti-town. He's also active lurking.

Amished gains a point for being a pansy.

I had (and have) my vote on somebody, I'm not a pansy you pansy.

FoS: Sykedoc

(:shock: this is my first FoS EVER )

Socio's end of 117 is completely bogus. Because one person doesn't refute your shitty points doesn't mean that they aren't shitty.

@RC: There's just a lot of nuance-y things that bug the hell outta me about SP. Attacking Llama for something like that seems out of bounds for a townie, his response to magnus (admittedly happened after my post there) is the same way. I don't see how it's in the town's best interest for SP-town to be so outrageous when he's not always like this.

[Amished]

So.. other people can't comment on your shitty points? Just because Nik didn't refute it doesn't mean they didn't deserve to be refuted.

[Amished]

Nik posted
You "made a conclusion" from nik's post
mo talked about your conclusions

Whether or not nik refuted jack shit means nothing. MO can still question you about your posts/conclusions. Why are you impossible?

Also, why aren't more people voting SP?

[Amished]

So why is RedCoyote scummier than SP?

[Amished]

Not really. Everyone attacks incomprehensible actions. That's like saying voting everyone on the player list at some point will make you vote scum. It's technically true but the result is worse than sticking a fork into an electrical socket.

[Amished]

No, because I believe you're more likely to stick a fork in a light socket than to find scum.

[Amished]

You found Ray, not me. Besides, fuckall @ meta.

[Amished]

Yep, more likely to find a fork in a light socket than scum. That was based on this game, not any meta.

[Amished]

I don't possess hypocrisy. It's a technological invention, and I have 0 technology.

[Amished]

I forgot about the other game I was in with SocioPath, after he brought it up, Ray was posting when UK and SP hopped on him as us-scum (we were a hydra).

@SpyreX: In this game, I have a strong-town read on Llama (also, thanks SPS; that makes me less wary to say something like that), and obviously I know my own alignment. Therefore, Socio has not "caught scum" in either of his major ventures thusfar where he's annoyed the hell outta me and Llama (both for rather legitimate reasons).

[Amished]

Uhh, I'm pretty sure in Portal we pushed the lynches pretty hard not based on anything you did.

I can guarantee that your "scumtell" that you caught in LRC v1 was RayFrost.

Hydra play doesn't stick with me as much as half isn't me (typically) and I talk with the partner for the most part. Other than UK I couldn't tell you who was in LRC (and you, obv). Other than SOG I couldn't be completely sure of who was in Portal. I don't buy your method of scumhunting as I know my alignment and you targeting me, and earlier targeting Llama I don't feel has found scum at all this game.

[Amished]

@UK: Believing SPS? I just have a super strong pro-town read of Llama who is also getting annoyed with SP.

Oh, about the dayprotect! Assuming SPS-scum: if Llama gets targeted it outs him as a liar and it's a 1:1 for town, so it prevents them from really doing anything to Llama. As town, it's either a gambit (that the scum wouldn't know if it is or not) or it's real, both ways it limits the scum. No matter what SPS's alignment is it works in my favor with my current read of Llama.

[Amished]

@red and ed: Do you really believe steam-powered shovel suspicious for his day protect?

Oh, about the dayprotect! Assuming SPS-scum: if Llama gets targeted it outs him as a liar and it's a 1:1 for town, so it prevents them from really doing anything to Llama. As town, it's either a gambit (that the scum wouldn't know if it is or not) or it's real, both ways it limits the scum. No matter what SPS's alignment is it works in my favor with my current read of Llama.

For me it's a null-tell. I can see it happen from either alignment. One thing that helps (barely) is that he also thought Llama was obv-town just as I did.

[Amished]

@m_o: Pretty much. I don't see a reason for a town to lie about it anyways.

@UK: now we know what's fake?

[Amished]

Oh, holy shit I didn't see the mod edit. I just go from my last post and catch up all the time.

Unvote
Vote: Steam-Powered Shovel

[Amished]

I thought you were just trying to figure out if I knew something or not.. That's what I get for only half paying attention.

[Amished]

@SPS:

1) Bullshit
2) More bullshit.

Socio had one post since your fake day ability. He didn't even reference you. There's no reaction there for you to vote him for.

[Amished]

So... your testing for reactions found... jack shit. Nice try.

[Amished]

@m_o: I'm sure scum wouldn't think that they'd be called out on it by the mod (somebody who knows). This way they could get town-cred by "protecting" somebody so pro-town as Llama, essentially without repercussions. After the "dayprotect" they could kill them at night (in case of a day-kill or something) if they later claimed that it only worked during the day; or decide to kill somebody else that was more of a threat.

[Amished]

It's a bastard mod game. I don't know what roles are out there. Daykill is a possibility to me in bastard mod games. Therefore, dayprotect isn't out of the realm of possibility.

You tell me why a townie lies about an ability, claims it was for "reactions" and doesn't glean information from said "reactions"? How does that benefit/even make sense as town?

[Amished]

Would you expect (as any alignment) to get called out *by the mod* that you're lying?

Let's start from there.

Also: All people are stupid, not just town (and I'm not an exemption sometimes either)

[Amished]

--> is inclined to agree with UK on all points.

unvote vote: Amished

Also to it is the fact that Amished is immediately acting as though SPS is totally serious (implying that he has completely accepted that SPS wouldn't lie, which suggests he knows SPS is town.) and that he tried to organize town's actions in response, and more specifically tried to direct a hypothetical day vig to check whether or not SPS was telling the truth (implying a desire to be seen as pro-town (looking for liars) and a desire for control of town's actions through that (to ensure he's not eliminated))

However, I'd still like to hear from SPS as to what reactions he expected/was looking for.

What?

@UK: I guess I'm not as experienced with bastard mod games as you are or something, but as any alignment I typically don't think about the mod. SCoug's b-mod game he pretty much stayed out of it and I was in a tar game where he pretty much stayed out of it except for vote-counts.

Therefore: it wouldn't even cross my mind that the mod would really step in on something like that.

I don't expect town to lie at all, ever (except for various lylo-endgame situations to turn the game around (damn you Sajin)), especially not in the middle of the day. Scum can (and do) lie when they think that they can get away with it (see my stance on mod "intervention"). Lying about a day-protect is an easy way to gain town-points without actually doing a damn thing since you control the kill anyways.

@mo: SPS is town or scum, right? I expect town to tell the truth, and scum to lie and/or tell the truth when it suits them. If SPS isn't telling the truth, then he's not a townie.

A = townies
B = scum
C = tell truth
D = tell lies

There are only A and B.

A only does C
B does C and D.

X did D. Therefore, X isn't A. If X isn't A, then X is B.

@Spyre: Exactly my point. He said it was for "reactions" but the person that he voted (who he was already voting for) didn't have *any* reactions. So SPS couldn't have been looking for reactions if it was for "lolreactions".

[Amished]

I guess I don't see why it wouldn't actually work here then.

Lying never crossed my mind. I suspect anybody who considers it. I've been burned once by a townie lying; but not severely as I think the town would've lost that game anyways.

Where is the townie intent behind his dayprotect? I'm trying to look at it from both ways but I don't see why a townie would do something like that.

[Amished]

The only person that comes to mind to do something like that for "lolreactions" was RichardGHP, and I hold pretty much anyone above him in terms of skill.

Also, how can he really say it was for "lolreactions" when nothing changed for him after he did that? It's a convenient excuse to get out of any pressure at all.

I will give you that it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense as scum, but it makes less (read: zero) sense as town. Especially after his

Fake daykills every time gets boring.

Unvote, vote: SocioPath

P.S. I chose LlamaFluff 'cause I figured that would be the most credible choice.

1) where he claimed he wanted it to be believed and credible (see the "P.S.")

I've played with SPS a couple times and I don't recall him ever doing something like this so it was out of character for him. Besides, what possible reactions would a protect actually garner? Did he expect scum to come out and say "oooo, I guess we can't kill him now, can we?"? I don't think so. The claim doesn't make sense for "lolreactions" nor does lying about it in the first place, nor does it fit my perception of SPS-town.

[Amished]

@mo: I gave an example of when town would lie, and no scenario that I can think of 7 pages into D1 fall into "town should lie right now".

Also, I said that I've seen day-vigs in b-mod games (SCoug's being the most vivid one) so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Secondly, Llama doesn't fall into my category of "should be day-vigged" so a protect would be unnecessary unless scum can day-kill.

[Amished]

@UK: hear about what, exactly?

As for "meta": I glean a certain standard of play from "meta". No tells or anything that I generally see referred to as "meta" by 99% of the people. If I join a game with zwet (for example) then my "meta" of him adjusts for his standard of play (not posting a lot) and goes from there. I don't look for tells or anything like that.

[Amished]

@UK: Fine, fucking lynch me. I'll agree that this game doesn't suit my playstyle and I'm a bit lost but this was the biggest thing to happen in the game and I'm attacking SPS for it.

[Amished]

Besides, then I can have an example to point to that "lolreactions" is fucking retarded postgame, and that SP doesn't find scum.

[Amished]

Whatever, I'm town, just lynch me. I'm essentially vanilla as I wasn't going to use my ability anyways.

[Amished]

BECAUSE YOU'RE BEING FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE.

I truthfully explain everything that I thought and think through, nothing is inconsistent and everything I fucking say is a lie apparently. Jesus christ. I've answered every question posed to me as soon as I read it, and I don't see where my scum fucking motivation would be to do any of this. Before this the game was moving slow as fuckall and I was annoyed to hell and back with SP's doing shit and blaming Llama for it; and then SPS doing shit and I get attacked for it. The directions of the attacks make NO sense and I don't feel like dealing with it anymore.

[Amished]

It hasn't changed. He's retarded scum. Did you not look at why I said it makes no sense for his line of thought as town? Therefore he's scum; and his play was just retarded. No change.

[Amished]

@mo: I did think it was something weird and I weighed both possibilities and passed it off (see 159). However, more information has been gleaned (the edit) and it doesn't make sense for town to do something like that. Therefore, it must be a scum action. Then further accounting in the "lol reactions" for the "why?" question, I don't see town doing that either (See last paragraph of 197 for detailed analysis) ALSO doesn't make sense as town.

@UK: because I don't give a shit. The people I trust the most in this game to see reason are all attacking me (Ray is the only one that isn't, and he hasn't had a chance to post since then) so the good players will convince the not-so-good that they're right despite my defenses. This way I don't have to expend energy into something that looks like a hopeless cause and you can get on with your lives and actually find scum.

Also, I have no idea what you're referring to about the ??? person. Whether or not they exposed the lie doesn't really affect me other than it exposed the lie (which was pro-town (or necessary, and in that case null) and I'm not attacking them)

Again: As me-scum; I wouldn't expect anybody to know that I lied about something in game. Therefore, there's no risk to claiming a day-protect. You can get "confirmed" by not having Llama die that day or at least look pro-town for preventing a possible kill (that may or may not happen).

There's nothing that hurt him as scum if his lie wasn't exposed.

[Amished]

*takes deep, calming breaths*

One thing wrong with your situation: I don't think it's guilty until proven innocent, but this proves (in my eyes) that SPS is guilty.

Look at this timeline for SPS-town:

I want to get some reactions to liven up the game/find scum.
I claim to have a PASSIVE ability, on somebody that's unlikely to be tested in any case, and possibly waste a pro-town action (day-vig, in your example).
Wait.
Lie gets exposed, claims that it was for lolreactions; no reactions have occurred. Votes for person that he was already voting for (since the person didn't have reactions)

SPS-scum:
I want to potentially draw out a pro-town action (day-vig), or get townie cred.
Claim Passive ability (if tested, then vig both daykills a townie, and *doesn't* daykill a scumbaggo, if not, townie cred)
lie is exposed
OH SHIT, what can I say to make it appear logical? lolreactions!

The town side of it doesn't make sense. You don't get reactions from claiming a passive ability. You make yourself a target as *either* side by lying; but you could (assuming day-vig because you brought it up) lose a townie, and get yourself lynched for it wasting a day because there's no possible reason for town not to jump on something like that.

Much of this is moot because I don't believe a vig would shoot in that case anyways since both
1) they might not believe Llama is scum, and vigs are for scum
2) they might believe SPS, and shooting somebody that's protected wastes their ability.

@mo: I didn't ask either, but you don't claim a passive ability to draw out reactions. daykills are proactive and would generate reactions; but the action doesn't line up with the excuse.

[Amished]

The only reactions that have occurred were because the lie was exposed, really. I didn't say anything until it was brought to my attention by you and magnus; and this is really the only reaction.

What about my early play do you feel is scummy?

[Amished]

@SK: I don't get what that game has to do with me?

[Amished]

@SP: in your neat little scenario; what happens when I flip town? Is SK still scum? What happens if/when SK flips town, am I still scum?

Get a life. And a case.

[Amished]

Where have I "known too much"? I'm confident in my limited reads, but I don't see how I would "know" much of anything. If I can explain why/where I got something that you seem to think I "know"; please allow me to do so for you.

[Amished]

Also, to everyone jumping on Amished for what he did, why aren't you giving RedCoyote the same treatment?

He hasn't responded yet

Y'all are kind of talking over my head with this "LRC" and "LRCv2". I feel like the entire discussion is centering on meta that I'm not going to read. I don't see the supposed contradiction that Spyrex does, so I don't really have a problem with that.

Vote: Steam-Powered Shovel

for being unsure what he's trying to accomplish by with his "day protect" remark. I think Llama is doing a good enough job for himself, and I don't know why SPS felt the need to jump in and attach himself to him like that.

Forgot about this... (adding to SK's point with quotes for relevance)

[Amished]

That's actually a great point, SK. The first part of RC's post reads like he knows that I'm town; and assumed the guilty without questioning/more information since it doesn't read like the lie had been exposed.

Unvote
Vote: RedCoyote

[Amished]

@SP: I don't have any buddies.

@UK: Llama questioned SP the same way I wanted to. Like viewpoints is the best same-alignment tell I've ever seen. He reacted in the thread the same way that I did when I was trying to figure out SP's ramblings.

[Amished]

It does suck, UK. I had the same read on him here as I did in SCoug's game (that you replaced in to) for largely the same "reason".

[Amished]

I give up on understanding/trying to analyze SP.

[Amished]

@SP: I did. It made logical sense to me; seeing two like situations (both attacking SPS for the dayprotect thing) and only seeing one person get attacked for it. From there, the person being attacked is most likely town and scum are generating the attack since it's not a bilateral attack (and the other attacker of SPS is therefore scum). That's half the reason I've switched my vote to RC off of SPS, because it made sense both logically and in mafia-context.

[Amished]

I explained why I thought that they were different (RC just flat out attacked SPS, I gave it a null to slight pro-town tell until I learned that it was a lie). However, the (simple) basis for the attack on me is that I attacked SPS. RC also attacked SPS, but he isn't being attacked like I'm being attacked.

[Amished]

@mo: it's been a day and a half (the day-protect happened yesterday morning). My reaction was different from RC (I was innocent until proven guilty, RC was other way around) for reactions regarding the claim.

Also, while SK and my premise factors in on interactions between players, I also need the flip of RC to nail the next person to the door. I'm also not going to reveal who I think is scum in the wagon to keep scum in the dark if I'm onto the next person in the team or if I'm not. I don't see any reason for me to reveal that information.

@SP: Ok, he looked at the wagon that formed against me (UK/MO, mainly). This would make sense since it was the attack of me and not of RC that SK brought up as a critical situation in the game, while Spyre's vote on me happened before the period of reference that was critical to SK's reasoning (as was your vote on me). He then analyzed further the wagon and made a gut call in the spur of the moment. Not seeing a lot of scum motivation behind it; if SK is scum (and if you believe whatsoever that he's not scum with me), why would he transfer suspicion onto either a different mislynch, or (what I believe will happen) onto scum?

[Amished]

@Mod: I'm voting RedCoyote now

Fixed

[Amished]

Broadcast: Will a majority of people FoS'ing one person have a day-ending effect?

Day-ending? No.

[Amished]

I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to use half of the mod-records in a way that won't ruin the rest of the day. If it won't end the day, why not test to see if FoS's will do something? I volunteer myself if you'd like.

[Amished]

SP, then you're tunneled hopelessly.

[Amished]

UnFoS
FoS: Amished

To get the ball rolling.

[Amished]

I don't expect the mod to give out free investigations (like SP tried to do), I know enough from Tar's b-mod games that FoS'ing does sometimes have effects. I recall reading one where FoS's count as votes (which I've now determined isn't the case here since a majority of FoS's will not end the day like a majority of votes would)

UnFoS
FoS: RedCoyote

I really don't care who gets them; I'm investigating the corners of the setup. The rest of you can ask questions for the meat of it that I haven't thought of. In retrospect, I should've waited to see Syke's answer to UK's question; but I thought it would've gotten the answer that I had originally thought of.

[Amished]

This red/blue thing reminds me of the two doors in the movie Labyrinth. I get the feeling one is being untruthful/likes toying with us.

[Amished]

What's umineko?

[Amished]

Ok, so you don't believe that Syke is .. the author? The stereotypical murdered host? I'm not sure what you were trying to say with your speculation.

Specify "the author" if you desire information on this subject.

[Amished]

Ok, so what does that have to do with the two colors? Multiple personalities? One's a player and one's a mod, something like that?

[Amished]

The speculation comment was more directed at UK.

If we flesh this out more, the people that haven't used their broadcast can pull information that will be more useful, right?

[Amished]

Ahh, that's what I wanted to know, UK.

[Amished]

I WAS RIGHT! God dammit anyhow, will you all step off now?

@RC:

[quote="Amished]I also need the flip of RC to nail the next person to the door.

So I went from being a suspect to an information lynch? Sounds completely opportunistic, which is starting to be a common theme with you in this game. Will you just say and do whatever you think will convince the most people? [/quote][/quote][/quote]Why must you take things out of context?

Magnus asked me why I wasn't attacking those on my wagon like my theory would dictate (scum driving my wagon over scummate RC). As it stands, if both RC and one/more of my wagoners are scum, it doesn't matter who I attack. Also, your lynch ISN'T an information lynch. Your scum-flip WILL be a key point in nailing the next person to the door, but it's not for information.

[Amished]

failtags

I WAS RIGHT! God dammit anyhow, will you all step off now?

@RC:

I also need the flip of RC to nail the next person to the door.

So I went from being a suspect to an information lynch? Sounds completely opportunistic, which is starting to be a common theme with you in this game. Will you just say and do whatever you think will convince the most people?

Why must you take things out of context?

Magnus asked me why I wasn't attacking those on my wagon like my theory would dictate (scum driving my wagon over scummate RC). As it stands, if both RC and one/more of my wagoners are scum, it doesn't matter who I attack. Also, your lynch ISN'T an information lynch. Your scum-flip WILL be a key point in nailing the next person to the door, but it's not for information.

[Amished]

SK: As I understand it, these are the issues:
Reasons for your vote for RC: not posting, in the background, being ignored... etc.
Reasons for you fos of me: goading the Amished wagon from the background
Reasons for your neutral (or is it town now?) read of spyreX: not posting, in the background, being ignored, goading the Amished wagon from the background.

This makes it seem like spyreX is receiving special treatment from you. Is he? if so, why? If not, why not?

And: SpyreX didn't start the wagon. How does this affect your read of spyreX? Why?

What? When and where has SpyreX goad from the background? Spyre was on the "wagon" before this whole situation came up. This whole post is bullshit and you know it MO.

@Llama: I guess I can see that line of thought, but it's just a stretch for me to even think about faking a day action when it's not really necessary. Lying like that never crosses my mind as town which is why I thought it was so suspicious. Then with the "lolreations" comment for justification instead of your actually reasonable explaination it made it that much worse.

@RC: We don't know what FoS's will do, but it won't end the day so it's worth it to test it out.

[Amished]

@mo: then your understanding isn't based on what you can also read. While true that Spyre wasn't the first to vote for me (IIRC SP was); Spyre started a "wagon" insofar as you can't have a wagon of only 1. Therefore, being on the wagon before the day-protect thing that exploded this thread isn't really goading on the wagon as Spyre said he would be all over SPS for the "lolreactions" thing essentially except that he wanted to see where pressure on me was going to lead to. That's not goading from the background and it's a point that you seem to have fabricated out of the blue, since I didn't really see SK saying that at all.

[Amished]

Eh, the walls that are coming out are discouraging me to really post or care as well.

RC still seems scum, I feel slightly better about nik, spyre and SP though.

[Amished]

Also, as semi-quasi-evidence to support this whole situation (if anybody cares): Day 1 of this game.

I'm Merkabah (town), swimmer4life (town) is being attacked by Exalt (scum) while Exalt is ignoring MMan (scummate) for doing largely the same thing as swimmer (and even starting what swimmer was attacked for). In this scenario, SK is the role of Merk, I'm in swimmer's spot; Exalt feels like mo while MMan is RedCoyote.

[Amished]

Oh, continuation of my post: I (Merk) called out Exalt on his BS and got heavily OMGUS'd; which ended up leading to Exalt's modkill but that part doesn't matter.

[Amished]

This is RC's first post after the fake dayprotect.

You'll notice that he immediately voted SPS (for rather weak reasons), so he "attacks" SPS in the most immediate way possible.

Then the thread a-sploded since you and UK believed that SPS was town and me scum, essentially for attacking him. (abridged version).

The way I see it, I really only got heavily attacked after I voted for SPS. UK didn't really talk about RC at all; she just went after me, and your base question didn't signal to me that either of us were being questioned, then you attacked me after my vote as well.

I guess now that I really think about it, UK was the main proponent behind that since she attacked me for a "derp-lynch" (here) but she never even mentioned RC's vote on the same player slot.

[Amished]

EBWOP: Clarification/short version: I get attacked for voting SPS. RC doesn't, even though he voted for the same player before I did (and UK/you were both in thread during that period).

I do believe RC was being intentionally ignored because he was somebody's (leaning UK now that I can back away from the situation and not get pissed off reading it all again.) scum partner. Then the wagoning on me for weak reasons by RC along with other crappy logic (case maybe coming if you all really don't see it for yourself) just points to him being scum and I don't see people attacking him as much as I feel that he should be attacked right now.

[Amished]

@Mod: Why does

RedCoyote (3): UncertainKitten, Amished, SaintKerrigan, Llamafluff

that many people FoS'ing RC only equal 3?

It was 3am. :p

[Amished]

yes, Amished's opinion.

I'm not sure what your second statement in apostrophes is supposed to mean/imply.

My opinion on what?

[Amished]

yes, Amished's opinion.

I'm not sure what your second statement in apostrophes is supposed to mean/imply.

My opinion on what?

SK's change of heart, of course.

Vote-hopping is null for me (I've done it as scum and town) but after such a solid case against RC; it seems he caved under pressure instead of sticking to his guns like I would've expected. I'm still more focused on RC-scum.

(this will be rambling) Applying my viewpoint from various other games, when I votehopped as scum; I was going after other other-scum/going for a mislynch and looking for others opinions to form a bandwagon. As town I saw scummy things on my own and voted with my convictions. SK looks to be in the former group; but it doesn't make sense for him to make a case like he did (differing viewpoints) as scum. SK-SK makes somewhat sense; but I need to reread him more in-depth to be more comfortable with voting him.

[Amished]

@Amished: "caved under pressure"? Are you sure you read what SK said? Can you explain why it looks that way to you?

The longer posts have dissuaded me from reading as carefully as I should, but if you'll follow along I'll try to outline what's formed my vague idea of SK's play lately.

Defending me: town-tell for how he did it. It was an objective read (rather than becoming personally involved) which tends to make it a stronger read and a stronger vote for RC in that whole debacle)

Vote switch to magnus on page 15: this is more emotional (and while I can understand emotion) it feels more backlash-y than normal since I felt he had a strong case against RC before that, and to abandon it for something like that seems like he was feeling weak when the wagon didn't materialize.

(then the unvote of you, m_o on page 17 without putting the vote back where it should be seems like he feels backed into a corner (caving under pressure) to me)

Going to nikanor on page 18 just seems out of the blue. There's been late "hate" for nikanor by llama and ... socio seems like trying to start a wagon on somebody due to that rather than any specific reason (vote reason was essentially wagoning against SK and little content; neither of which are scumtells)

It's just rather than scumhunting legitimately (like I felt he was with RC early on) it's slipped to personal reasons instead of logical ones when I feel he's capable of logical reasons.

[Amished]

Alright, I sort of understand that.
I was more wondering about your opinion on post... (*realizes BB doesn't have the posts numbered*)

Um... this post, in particular.

Why did you change your position from before?

Because I got sick of defending something that was already putting me under suspicion and wasn't what I truly felt anyway, so I decided I might as well admit what I really felt. The point was to try and avoid suspicion, and I fucked up royally.

Why are you afraid of looking suspicious?

Because I don't like getting lynched any more than the next guy (well, unless the next guy's a jester). I tend to try and avoid suspicion as a result.

The first response worries me. Admitting scummy behavior doesn't make it all right (I do that as scum a fair amount) but the second one just strikes me as brutally honest. Getting lynched for non-night action reasons ultimately means you failed your alignment as a player; town or scum.

Ugh, where did my ISO go I should check if Kise's thing works for this.

[Amished]

@Spyre: If I could give a good reread I would commit to one or the other. The points brought up recently is what's shaken my very pro-town read of SK. I'm trying to reconcile that with what else I've seen.

[Amished]

YAY ISO!

To start off with: I don't see how my role could possibly be improved by a pinata. SP, you should've shut up as this allowed everyone an out. (Nik comes to mind).

@Mod: Can RayFrost be replaced already? Jesus. I think you're lying to us saying that he's being replaced...

SK's early play looks completely town to me. Detached and looking for legit scumtells.

I can also understand getting reactionary to the questioning as well, so I can't see that as a scumtell as I feel SK and I look at playing relatively similarly.

The only thing that bothers me is that he didn't go back to RC after the magnus vote/unvote; but in ISO I see more magnus hate than I initially remembered so I'm leaning SK-town for the hop on; and trying to move the game forward with a Nik vote.

All my suspicions have been alleviated by actually being able to see a full SK-thought process.

[Amished]

To start off with: I don't see how my role could possibly be improved by a pinata.

Why? Are you a mafia SK cult leader with the ability of:
DO WHATEVER YOU WANT, JUST SEND IN AN ACTION AND ITS DONE.

SP, you should've shut up as this allowed everyone an out. (Nik comes to mind).

This is a dumb line of thought to assume my claim ceases all scum hunting both before and after my claim.

1) OMG YOU'RE A DAY ROLECOP! HOLY HELL!

........


2) Does it look like Nik/UK are doing anything now that you've claimed? So.. who's assuming what and who's going off in thread evidence?

[Amished]

UNVOTE
VOTE: SocioPath

Whatever.

[Amished]

Was that a hammer? Because I seriously do not want to participate in a "guys, lynch me, it's best for the town" scenario. That should make you all kinds of nervous.

More to come later (if there is a later that is, a vote count would be nice).

The very worst thing that I can think of is a game ending Jester; and I don't believe that syke would put that in his game. He seems to be having too much fun and wouldn't want the game to end like that so easily.

[Amished]

VOTE: Nikanor

Shooting you is what magnus would do! But only because I wanted Guy Montag

[Amished]

Nik, do you believe gullible has been removed from the dictionary?

Either way, how many mini's do you think actually makes it to day 5... Try harder.

"Gullible" n'est pas dans le dictionnaire.

[Amished]

@SC: As I hinted in my first post of the day, I made magnus_orion target Nikanor. (Obviously I'm a town redirector; not a busdriver).

I've since asked Syke if I target somebody and they chose not to act (which I don't know why an SK wouldn't, but for complete clarification) would I force them to act.

I targeted mo cause there was just something off about his play; it seemed too aloof rather than getting into it; which made me feel he was scum. I didn't have much of a read on anybody that was super scummy, so I decided to make mo target Nik since he seemed to be a big question mark too and he had a decent chance of being scum.

I was hoping that mo was either a roleblocker or sent to be the killer from the scum team; so that nik would be blocked/killed. Obviously mo is a killer, but nik didn't die. So I can confirm that MO must've been the scum kill (unless it was blocked on it's own) or nik has some sort of PGO + bulletproof role.

[Amished]

EBWOP: I haven't gotten a response from Syke about that question in Para #2 above.. Just so you know.

[Amished]

I still don't see why magnus wouldn't perform an action last night, but if he didn't/got roleblocked or something I couldn't make him go through that all.

[Amished]

UK, you just confused the ever-loving shit outta me.

[Amished]

If you get it figured out, lemme know.

Arsonist killer does make sense though for Guy Montag; no idea why I didn't think that way. There goes my "nik is BP-scum" theory =\

I'm interested in what prompted the pinata thing today though..

[Amished]

UNVOTE: Nikanor
VOTE: RedCoyote

Now that my (oh too obvious) breadcrumb has been outed and that theory has been shot to hell, this is my best scum-lead.

[Amished]

@SK: tbh, something like that (what UK asked for) would be hard to fake-claim around so it'd come out later when it'd be more necessary. I don't like the role-fishing though.

[Amished]

Seriously maybe I'm being screwed with but I sure haven't seen any pinata love.

Does it help that I love you?

[Amished]

I don't have any known pinata bonus either. It is possible it's a hidden bonus though.

+1

@Spy: I don't steal. (unless it's your heart ).

inb4 gay joke.

[Amished]

Fading into the background isn't nearly as cool as a reason to vote as actively scummy (when active)...

[Amished]

Well, unfortunately no one sees it fit to answer my questions. I mean, SC just did, but you didn't even give me a chance to respond to that (how am I not surprised?).

If we know Amish visited someone last night, according to SC, then why shouldn't we take a chance on him? Going with the odds that not everyone here has a night action each night, and with the odds that the scumteam probably have more night actions than just a kill, I'd say we have a fair shot with our friend Amish here. I think he's been pretty reluctant to tell us exactly what went on. I can sort of understand this, but when you've been outted as a power role, then you may as well give us the goods. Amish might be hesitant because he's kind of feeling out the town's reactions rather than trying to be forthcoming.

Amish, you claim to have visited Nikanor, right? I mean, do you have any other information about your role or what you learned, do you think SC is leading the town astray, or do you have some other point of view?

COMPREHENSIVE READING FTW!

@SC: As I hinted in my first post of the day,

I made magnus_orion target Nikanor. (Obviously I'm a town redirector

; not a busdriver).

I've since asked Syke if I target somebody and they chose not to act (which I don't know why an SK wouldn't, but for complete clarification) would I force them to act.

I targeted mo cause there was just something off about his play; it seemed too aloof rather than getting into it; which made me feel he was scum. I didn't have much of a read on anybody that was super scummy, so I decided to make mo target Nik since he seemed to be a big question mark too and he had a decent chance of being scum.

*ADDENDUM*: if they don't act, I can't force them*

I was hoping that mo was either a roleblocker or sent to be the killer from the scum team; so that nik would be blocked/killed. Obviously mo is a killer, but nik didn't die. So I can confirm that MO must've been the scum kill (unless it was blocked on it's own) or nik has some sort of PGO + bulletproof role.

Yeah, I haven't explained anything about my role...

(extra bolding is mine)

[Amished]

I think I know, and it makes me believe he's more than likely town; but I don't wanna talk about it.

And if I knew you were town, I'd vote somebody else.

[Amished]

I also think the flavor behind my role worked out perfectly with what I attempted to do too; so I should get a point reduction for that....

[Amished]

@RC: What are your opinions on Nikanor?

[Amished]

Vote Count ON THE WAY!

25 minutes later... NOT FAST ENOUGH. I thought you meant it wasn't on the way from australia.

[Amished]

Hour later... *sigh*

[Amished]

@UK: It's something that scum says to appear pro-town. Talking about role info like that helps the town more often than not.
@UK: I'm not. I was talking about a bastard game marathon-modded by sykedoc in which SK and I were part of a pro-town mafia group, and Amished was a "Dirty Cop," a bad guy hidden in a cop group. In particular, I was responding to this:

I doubt the game would be that bastardy.

...right?

So... are you saying that m_o was pro-town? What are you going on about? That game was based solely off of not-fia. Why would that have any impact on this game?

[Amished]

*IF* m_o was an arsonist, me being a redirector and whatever with the other claimed/hinted at actions; I agree that it's looking extremely swingy. I'm not seeing a lot of bastardry yet, except for potential syke-communications. Even with that, it's not that bastardized I don't think. Especially not to the point that flips aren't reliable.

Look at Socio, he said that his death would result in gifts, SCoug said something pinata related lead to a correct result that I targeted mo. It can't be that bastardized.

@Nik: Why on earth would I want to redirect people to themselves? I don't feel myself to be a strong pro-town power role, so if scum will go after others my results will be claimed every day so that they can figure it out themselves (and restrict scum fake-claims most likely). The only time that my results wouldn't be advertised is if I'm NK'd; and if the scum want to off a redirector instead of some other hinted at PR's; then go me cause I'm protecting them.

[Amished]

Eh. Fine. Either way you got true information (pinata or role based). Bastard modding would require more lying from Syke from my perspective.

[Amished]

Rumplestiltskin?

[Amished]

Are you Tyler Durden?

[Amished]

Biggie Smalls
Biggie Smalls
Biggie Smalls

[Amished]

How recent was the movie?

[Amished]

That's almost before I was born.. Ugh.

[Amished]

Oh goddammit I'm stupid.

Beetlejuice is your role. Don't know if we'd want you "unleashed".

[Amished]

Nik's role name created tons of havok towards his own ends in the movie. Essentially he was summoned to clear out the living people in a dead couple's old house; and ended up doing so just so he could marry the daughter of one of the two families. A worm or something ended up eating him before the marriage could complete, but that's about all that I know.

I do know that when "nikanor" came into the movie, all sorts of mayhem and havok ensued that the people/ghosts were unable to deal with.

@Nik: do you *have* to send in two names every night? Did you get any information about either of the names that you submitted last night? (No, don't tell what information that would be).

[Amished]

Llama... doesn't have a vote? /goes to check

[Amished]

I'm a whole village now? SWEET. Do I get moar votes because of it?

What led you to believe this?

[Amished]

Mostly cause I wanted to believe it. That whole "I think I can" thing...

[Amished]

I really don't see how it's beneficial to keep Nik around, but that's just me.

[Amished]

Next order of business: What do we think would happen if Nik is unleashed? Learn his actions would obviously be the best outcome; the worst outcome would probably require an immediate lynching (of which we couldn't really get confirmation of it anyways)

[Amished]

Yeah, I haven't seen the movie in... over 12 years. Nothing good would come from it I don't think, but the whole flying pumpkin thing really seems like something Syke would put in as a town aligned role just to mess with us. Hmm, I could redirect him to himself though; wasting (if any available; if the scum want to gamble) a roleblock.

@Nik: Can you choose which of your 10 unknown abilities to do in a night? Like, Ability #4 out of 10?

[Amished]

@Nik: What was the ability called that you used last night?

[Amished]

So is your push against Nikanor still your attempt at active scumhunting? What do you think of his claim?

[Amished]

So you believe he's telling the truth about his abilities?

[Amished]

You don't feel Syke would put something with his claimed abilities in the game on town's side just to mess with us?

[Amished]

Yeah, why not?

There's only so many choices for Nik. Town or scum.

Yes, Nik could be scum, but then it's more likely to find him in scumhunting causing less "enjoyment" for Syke.
Or Nik could be town, his role masked by him actually scumhunting causing more chaos and more mod enjoyment.

It's simple: what would cause more enjoyment for Syke; as bastard games almost solely boil down to that. I feel Nik-town with his claimed abilities would be more enjoyable for Sykedoc.

[Amished]

Not particularly.

I don't see what links you could make; but that's your typical reaching from what I remember of you.

[Amished]

Seriously. What possible connections could be between us. AFTER SCoug saw me target magnus and my explanation for what I did last night (redirect thought scum to thought scum). It seems rather complicated for me to be lying about that, along with my attack of Nik early on today (before I could possibly know that I was tracked/dreamed about/visited by a pinata/whatever). What possible connection are you really trying to push here?

Really think about what you're trying to suggest; then come back when you've figured it out.

[Amished]

I clearly breadcrumbed that there was a connection between magnus and Nik in my first post of the day. What could I possibly do to kill Magnus and *still* help Nika? Really?

[Amished]

So.. in case me-scum got tracked to mo (which you still haven't explained why I would need to kill him if I thought he was scummy in the first place); and in case I got watched going to nikanor (if that even works, I don't think it would); I come up with an elaborate breadcrumb fake-claim that I'd have to keep up for the rest of the game and would out my scumpartners if I needed them to corroborate my story of redirection.

Right.

[Amished]

All on top of mod-guessing that factional and individual abilities can be used. OKAY

[Amished]

All I see is that you have no logical explanation for your own position.

And as a redirector, I'd really only be tracked to mo; mo would be tracked to Nika. I'm not switching (not a busdriver) I'm just pointing somebody in another direction.

[Amished]

Everything she's said in response is "WIFOM".

Why would I kill mo? (WIFOM)
Why would I claim to have done what I've done right away, when most of the time you don't really worry about other PR's (town or scum)? (WIFOM)
Why am I defending Nika? (WIFOM)

There's so many guesses on her part, but not really a factual basis for her position. Add on top of that she's attacking me for mod wifom when her position is based on that as well? There's something not right there at all.

[Amished]

Besides, I believe Nika is more town because of his abilities. He's not CLEARLY town for it, but it's something I believe. To be strawmanned in that nature only adds to my point.

[Amished]

I've already claimed so I have no further stake in massclaiming.

@UK: I just wanted to see your opinion on him. Obviously I'm not voting for him anymore so I don't feel that he's the scummiest. No, I don't think he'll be the most helpful townie but it's not beneficial to lynch a townie anyways. Whatever, you think I'm scummy for mod-wifom and you're doing the same damn thing. The way that I'd mod is that a redirector only goes to the person that he's redirecting since that's the only person that I'm essentially effecting. I also mod where you can't do a factional and individual ability unless you're the last one of your faction so whatever.

[Amished]

I trust Llama, so I'd vote for him going last if we are to massclaim.

[Amished]

For first claim I vote RC or SPS

[Amished]

Ok. It's just at this point it should be obvious I'm looking for someone. No idea what happens if I find them. Honestly, I should probably know who it is but I don't know who else here is a Seacatz fan.

You might've been lied to, just like Llama probably was? I've never heard of Seacatz.

[Amished]

I had to do that as well.

[Amished]

*whistles and twiddles thumbs*

Oh, and I can redirect back at whomever I target (so I could make Spy target Spy, just as an example).

[Amished]

lol yeah, well.... Maybe I don't like Wizards? >_>

[Amished]

I don't like how SaintKerrigan is doing in his argument with Ythan...

I saw what the "argument" started off as and I stopped caring like a page and a half ago.

I fail to see how arguing over hints presented lead to a role gives alignment revealing information.

[Amished]

Basically. It reflects TERRIBLY on both Ythan and SK. Shut the fuck up and scumhunt, dammit.

Also:

Betelgeuse
Betelgeuse
Betelgeuse

What did saying your name do?

[Amished]

Not much information. The deceased equine. It has had enough of your damn stick.

That's what she said?

[Amished]

He's incredibly dodgy and blatantly ignores direct questions repeatedly reiterated to him

plus kind of whines really hard and throws bitch fits.

You should've stopped when you were ahead.

[Amished]

So how is the last part a scumtell since you've said it before?

[Amished]

@RC: Why should I tell scum who I think is town?

Thanks for reminding me how much I disliked your play this game.

Oh, right, there's also the fact the fight has been utterly pointless, and I've said as much and tried to stop it when it started spanning pages.

But, yeah, honestly, I forgot who I suspected since the last few days have been Ythan vs. SK. I just don't get the impression people will like me saying that. If it helps I remember a bit about why RC was bugging me ^-^

So... vote him? Or are you still on about Nikanor?

[Amished]

He got unsummoned? I dunno; I turned off my camera spying on him.

[Amished]

FoS SaintKerrigan

[Amished]

I really don't care, I don't think my role has anything to do with yours UK

[Amished]

Getting back into this game tonight. All the massclaiming has messed with my reads of people scumhunting.

[Amished]

For my full-claim: I'm Yosarian (from Catch-22); since people are out to get me and my friends, I try my best (and did a damn good job of it N1 I think) to prevent kills.

I also had Guy Montag on my list, but he was my 2nd choice (yos was 3rd). Beetlejuice and anything that relates to japan were not on my list.

[Amished]

Redirector. But obviously my goal is to try to keep kills (prime action of scum) away from townies. I think that was mostly a justification by Syke on how Yos could be a redirector.

[Amished]

@SK: Juan (Johnnie) Rico from Starship Troopers (one of my favorite books of all time).

Ythan's tunneling looks town; Nik is a decent choice for me only because then I have less choices for stopping "random" roles (which I kinda inherently distrust). SPS I can be easily persuaded to only because I can't remember a single thing he's done all game and that's not normal for him.

SpyreX I've not seen anything scummy out of though, what makes him a suspect for you?

[Amished]

But Spyrex is still my favorite lynch as the most useless in a stack of useless players (myself included). Nikanor I'm not so fond of for our lynch. I don't see how he has been lurking, as UK claims he has.

Holy shit you're playing this game.

In other news, how has he not been lurking? Did you not notice how long it took him to respond to SPS' call to claim? Did you not notice he was posting in EVERY OTHER GAME HE WAS PLAYING during that time? Why was he avoiding this one? He says "he was waiting til massclaim was over", but why would he not check the thread and such? It feels like a flimsy, untrue excuse to cover his ass. Now, why would he need to cover his ass? Maybe he figured since he already claimed, he could lurk his way through D2. What pro town reason does there exist for that?

None whatsoever.

Good thing my vote is still on him (I think). I want day vig powers

[Amished]

@RC: You see, part of lurking is the CONTENT of your posts, as well as timing. I love how you are trying to use numbers to save your scumbuddy when they absolutely do NOT address what I'm talking about.

Why are you defending Nikanor?

SC has the crux of why your post is silly, RC

Anyway,

FoS Nikanor

Hopefully this doesn't do something stupid like make him stronger.

Exactly. Also consider that in the past week we've had SK/Ythan bickering that didn't help the game and massclaiming (which also didn't help the game). You tell me what useful posts each person made.

Why the hell aren't we lynching him?

Nikanor is fine too;

As for SPS:

I forgot he was playing - he faded into obscurity after fake dayprotectgate.

And has done nothing, but sure hopped in quick to respond to me saying I forgot he was playing.

if you wanna pick and choose; this is as good a post to look at as well.

[Amished]

@Mod: when is the deadline?

[Amished]

Cause I wanna be a spiteful bastard

Unvote
Vote: Nikanor

[Amished]

Elect: LlamaFluff

Anyways, I got a gift last night; makes me believe RedCoyote's role a bit more (no idea about his alignment).

Since Syke is teh fail; this is the current player list.

2) SaintKerrigan
4) LlamaFluff
5) Steam-Powered Shovel
7) Amished
8) SpyreX
9) RedCoyote
10) Ythan

If it was a 8-3-1 setup; then we're in 4-3 lylo. If only 9-2-1; then we're in 5-2 and have a day.

Just from the claims, SPS looks like a convenient scum-claim; as does SpyreX's.

SK: Who did you use your ability on last night; and which was it?

SPS: did you guess right?

Did UK claim her target N1?

[Amished]

Ahh yes, UK targeted SK N1. I believe that's the best place to put a vote if/when we get done with elections.

The fact that both kills were on pro-town people (in my eyes) basically confirms to me that SK is scum and was the NK'er on N1. Ythan is not a partner that I can tell after that huge fucking post spam that made me ignore this game for however long.

[Amished]

What if you were failed, Spyre?

You failing (due to RC) OR roleblocked in some way would account for 2 anti-town kills N2 and one "pro-town" NK N1 *after* losing an SK (probable arsonist as he didn't kill himself). I don't see a way for kills to be protected against. We *don't* have an SK anymore.

Perhaps SK was jailed N1 (like you said; preventing them from doing anything *then*) but with the time warp; jailing doesn't prevent them from doing something last night? Unless you jailed SK again last night?

[Amished]

-snip-

Amished's post regarding me being scum based on night actions is disturbing me. Also, a scum redirector could easily have redirected a town killer to another town-looking figure. I'll have to look more into this when I'm not speed posting before being late for work.

-snip-

Oh, you mean the other claimed killing roles?

....

Yup, SK is scum. Sorry Ythan for not believing you yesterday.

[Amished]

Yeah, I'll buy that.

Elect: Ythan

[Amished]

I'd move my vote but what can you do.

Agree with the SK-scum.

Who the hell else is around? Didn't SPS get replaced, or am I thinking of another game? RC; who's your top suspect?

[Amished]

Ahh, good. Ooba; can you elaborate on your role at all?

[Amished]

I'd like my night action to remain private for now (but will come later today). No, I did not breadcrumb it at all yet.

I started out not voting for you because I wasn't aware if we could vote and elect people at the same time; and now that I see Llama killing you anyways (or will) my vote on you isn't needed.

[Amished]

Why would UK have lied about her target though? That's exactly why I'm not paying attention to SK anymore; because of that damning evidence. Yay for early massclaim.

[Amished]

I'd like my night action to remain private for now (but will come later today).

Why's that, exactly? Isn't it a good thing for us to know who you redirected last night?

@ Llama: Could you detail more what makes you think I'm scummy?

And seriously, guys, would you

please

stop ignoring my case against Ythan and tell me why you don't like it? It's the least you can do before you kill me.

Just in case my redirect did something to scum; I don't want to let them have any idea and possibly catch them lying. Course, I wouldn't mind everybody full-claiming every day just because; but whatever.

[Amished]

Yeah, life sucks. I've barely been able to mod my newbie game..

I did do a full claim; Llama even questioned if I was a doctor with my summation.

I'm Yosarian, Town Redirector.

I did not target SK with my redirect or to be redirected to.

[Amished]

Also, tomorrow night I'll have a comprehensive post up highlighting everything that I've missed.

[Amished]

Yes, it is too early to prod Amished.

When I don't get back into my house til after 10 and I still have to shower and get up at 6; I don't have much time for Mafia. Sorry.

What do I need to know, other than SK should be the lynch today? Anything important? Otherwise I'll listen to Ythan and Llama if they want me to claim more. Like I mentioned previously, RC's *role* still seems like it's believeable; though my gift could be an attempt to throw me off; especially since multiple gifts seemed to have dropped last night.

Finding where I left off *trudges*

[Amished]

Got to the N2 speculation by Llama: What if Nik's power that he chose was a killing power? It'd be a vig at that point which I redirected to MO. SK's kill still could've come through on N2 then and somebody else killed UK at that point as well. With an SK; it'd be a 2.1 killing role game (.1 comes from a chance for Nik to choose a Beetlejuice killing role)

The more I see from RC the better I feel about him; Spyre is the opposite.

Since I think it'll help clear things up, I redirected RC (due to me believing him about his *role*) to SPS (since I did view him as scummy). Therefore I know that RC did not submit a kill last night since SPS is alive and wasn't jailed; and if I wasn't randomly failed (which shouldn't happen as random actions don't come in front of redirection in NAR. Though it could be argued that it's a roleblock..) then SPS didn't do the kill since he was a random target for failing.

So unless RC's role is a safe-claim and my gift is a red-herring to "clear" him (since it can't really be proven) they both can't be scum since I don't forsee an 8-3-1 game in all likely-hood.

[Amished]

@SK: I specify *role* so that people can discern for themselves objectively what I know and what I suppose. I believe I stated that I believe his role (barring red-herring mod lying) due to the pinata gift that I received last night. Because of the gift; that made me choose RC. I figured that if he's town; then I'm stopping a random target from failing and getting rid of randomness is always beneficial. It would also prevent SPS (who doesn't have an "active" ability; and one that I stated I thought was really easy to just fake) as scum from killing since I assume that scum-nk is an ability that can be delegated to any of the scum.

Then, if it was a red-herring and RC is scum; since there's no claimed tracker/watcher anymore he'd be a good choice for scum to send out on the kill and allow the rest of the scum to properly "use" the claimed abilities that any/all have and not get caught in lying loopholes.

I actually really buy a Spyre/SK scumteam. Spyre "jailing" SK last night in an attempt to clear him from the kill last night. Spyre being 3rd choice scum for SK; and now that there's a wagon building switching over even though he's called my claim "smelling of a scum fake claim".

[Amished]

It was a chance. What information do I get if RC does the kill as scum and SPS didn't do anything? How about if RC does have a killing ability; then I can save someone I likely view to be a townie all while condemning the shit out of RC? This seemed to be the best way to answer some question marks in a couple player slots that really didn't seem to have any clear answers that they could provide.

Ahh, I got all the mudslinging you were doing towards me confused with me actually being scum. So if you think I'm faking my claim (and spyrex is as well); then how does Ythan being scum fit into all this? Unless you're seriously trying to push a 8-3-1 setup (which you really can't be since you've just said that there's a possibility of 2 scumteams (which means we essentially started with 3).

I don't really have to paint anything you do as scummy; you do that just fine on your own.

[Amished]

But then RC being redirect to SPS eliminates another question mark while also condemning RC to death via lynch after everyone claimed.

I really want to know how you can suspect Llama at all though; please, enlighten me since he's your top partner for the person that you're voting.

[Amished]

If SPS was the killer then; I would know (via my present) that RC is cleared. Unfortunately, I can't know that but it's worth a shot. I do know that RC was not the killer; and I doubt a 8-3-1 setup so it's highly unlikely from my perspective that he's scum.

[Amished]

I'm sorry, did somebody not post a large wall to read? No? Ok, I'll be back later.

Also, ooba lurking is making me sad panda. Why can't you ever get caught up?

[Amished]

Ok, just so this is out there; and I have no clue if it's mod-wifom or not.

Essentially my pinata gift would give a chance to prevent a random failing at a random point in the game. I can't control who would not get failed nor when the "unfailing" (my words) would happen.

I do think a random failing would account for the kill setup (if Spyre was "blocked" and SK submitted, or another person did the kill). However, why was that all dismissed? How else are we accounting for 2 kills N2 and only 1 N1?

@Ythan: Why is RC scum above and beyond SK since you don't want to wagon with him?

[Amished]

@Ythan: When did you enter the game again? Day2?

@Mod: What time is the deadline?

[Amished]

ooba and Amish need to vote.

See, my problem is that I'm kinda trusting RC since really there's no way for him to have performed a kill last night. If I can clear somebody like that I don't want to vote for them.

However, SpyreX is being voted by SK; and really, I don't want to be on the same wagon as him; especially after the whole Ythan/SK "oh, let's just vote for Spyre instead".

Ugh. I really don't want to agree with SK *or* Ythan right now.

Vote: RedCoyote

[Amished]

I redirected Ythan to SpyreX last night. I was getting somewhat bad vibes about them both; and my question towards Ythan yesterday (about when he entered the game) was the start of supposition on my part that Batman was a Serial Killer replacement which gives more scum (again) which would more account for more kills even though the "SK" died N1.

[Amished]

@Elli: SpyreX was scum; it seems like I'm the only "I know my target and my role abilities" person in the game. Magnus was an SK that we don't think actually killed anybody.

[Amished]

You're worried about game balance in a bastard mod game?

[Amished]

I don't understand what is tying me to Spyre but whatever.

Why are you believing SpyreX's claimed actions for N1 anyways? Coug had already essentially revealed at that point (IIRC) that he tracked me; so Spyre was safe pretty much claiming anything.

[Amished]

SpyreX's flip changed everything; SK. I was going back through Spyre's ISO and Llama was not mentioned *once*, asking a question nor voicing suspicion, all game. That's why I've been trying to see what Llama has been saying to glean more from the setup since it looks increasingly more likely that he has inside information on the setup that he hasn't shared.

Without being completely sure, I don't want to put a vote down yet; but it is between ooba and Llama for me; solely because of ooba's continuous lack of catching up. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a 2-1-1-10 setup; given how weak and random the town roles have been and factoring into things that Socio would become a "town jester" essentially.

[Amished]

@SK: So 1 elect, and that's it? Yeah, really huge there...

@Ooba: You and Llama (thought I made that clear). It's hard for me to really get a read on SK now since I did have a town read on him early game then with the wall o' texts that he posted with Ythan I just zoned them both out at the time.

@Elli: I saw your vote thing, I was on SP and RC (mostly due to deadline reasons, not for scum reasons), but you select me and kerri (me who wasn't on all three, and then SK who was on all three wagons but you said you thought he was town because of the Ythan thing? You're going to have to give something better than that for reasoning.

[Amished]

Llama is an informed townie (knows that there's no vanillas)
I'm a redirector
SK is an amnesiac; 2 abilities, don't know either of them.
Ooba/SPS is Pastor John (has an ability, but has to guess it for it to come into effect)

[Amished]

Wait, wtf.

I was wondering why Elli was considered confirmed town before. Though this clears Llama since he could easily kill Elli tonight and risk not getting killed if he had let the lynch go through.

....

Wait... Elli is a non-voter?

I'm so fucking confused.

[Amished]

Syke being a bastard and killing? Perhaps MO isn't actually dead... I really have no idea.

Nice try on the gambit though.

@Ooba: why would self-voting make you more likely to win?

[Amished]

I was off the whole site for that duration. Try again SK.

[Amished]

Ahh, that's what I get for not actually checking post times (all my timezone):

Llama's vote of Ooba was Monday at 12:15 AM. Ooba's selfvote was at 11:48 am on Monday. Elli's vote of Ooba was at 1:21 pm on Monday. Llama then voted Elli at 5:47 pm Monday.

Let's see; I don't wake up and post in mafia; I go to work from 8-5 (so I fall asleep well before midnight) and don't get back til about 5:30. Given that I have life to take care of when I get home I would've had all of 12 minutes to post in that timeframe. You tell me where I was actually laying low through the Ooba wagon.

[Amished]

Also, if you are SpyreX's partner, you should probably claim now ..

Well, Ooba seems cleared, solely because of this post. If he was scum he would remember and believe my claim; knowing that if the last scum claimed I could redirect their kill back at them.

Unvote
Vote: SaintKerrigan

[Amished]

And what did you learn from that?

[Amished]

YUS!

Turns out I didn't need to figure out Magnus was the killer... Though I was semi on the right track thinking that Ythan started killing since we only got 2 kills after he came in (just so happened that MO died N1...)

Whatever, I'll take whatever town wins I can get...

Way to be a super saint Ooba.