Mini 983: It Got Worse (GAME OVER)

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

My last post answered your question implicitly (ie. the same reason one does fake daykills: reactions).

[Amished]

I thought you were just trying to figure out if I knew something or not.. That's what I get for only half paying attention.

[Amished]

@SPS:

1) Bullshit
2) More bullshit.

Socio had one post since your fake day ability. He didn't even reference you. There's no reaction there for you to vote him for.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

I was already voting for Sociopath. Try paying more attention to the game next time.

[Amished]

So... your testing for reactions found... jack shit. Nice try.

[magnus_orion]

@SPS: what were you looking for exactly?
@Amish: I'm confused why scum would lie about this?

[Amished]

@m_o: I'm sure scum wouldn't think that they'd be called out on it by the mod (somebody who knows). This way they could get town-cred by "protecting" somebody so pro-town as Llama, essentially without repercussions. After the "dayprotect" they could kill them at night (in case of a day-kill or something) if they later claimed that it only worked during the day; or decide to kill somebody else that was more of a threat.

[UncertainKitten]

/me sighs

Unvote, Vote Amished

Why aren't you scumhunting? Why are you going for "easy targets". That really aren't. You're not looking for actually scummy, you're looking for textbook scummy to see what shit you can get past us. Add that to knowing too much, and for the time being I'm pretty sure you're scum.

@Amished: No, seriously, actually scumhunt. It was pretty obvious it was fake to me, even before the mod gave it away. Again, how does what SPS did at all benefit scum again? Especially with something as obviously silly as what he proposed his action was?

[Amished]

It's a bastard mod game. I don't know what roles are out there. Daykill is a possibility to me in bastard mod games. Therefore, dayprotect isn't out of the realm of possibility.

You tell me why a townie lies about an ability, claims it was for "reactions" and doesn't glean information from said "reactions"? How does that benefit/even make sense as town?

[UncertainKitten]

Clearly we approach things differently, though I'm not convinced you are exactly being honest, of course.

Town is stupid. I have come to this conclusion recently. But town is always going to do something fucktarded that makes you want to



them. Invariably. So, instead of looking for things that make sense as town (though sometimes I will use things that make sense as town to feel good about someone), I look for things that make sense as scum. What SPS did makes not very much sense as scum, because of LAL and the fact it drew attention to him. The obviousness of the fakery also adds to the "Why would scum bother?" thing.

Now, this isn't an irreversible read, but your attacks on SPS read as opportunistic scum at this time.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Don't make sense as town, rather. Looking for things. Catching scum. Ninjas, etc.

[Amished]

Would you expect (as any alignment) to get called out *by the mod* that you're lying?

Let's start from there.

Also: All people are stupid, not just town (and I'm not an exemption sometimes either)

[magnus_orion]

--> is inclined to agree with UK on all points.

unvote vote: Amished

Also to it is the fact that Amished is immediately acting as though SPS is totally serious (implying that he has completely accepted that SPS wouldn't lie, which suggests he knows SPS is town.) and that he tried to organize town's actions in response, and more specifically tried to direct a hypothetical day vig to check whether or not SPS was telling the truth (implying a desire to be seen as pro-town (looking for liars) and a desire for control of town's actions through that (to ensure he's not eliminated))

However, I'd still like to hear from SPS as to what reactions he expected/was looking for.

[SpyreX]

Hot damn UK I'm in love.

If Amished wasn't being tech I would be all over lol, reactions because it makes me sooo angry even IF its often town-sided (although, it can be beautiful scumside but this isn't that so).

[UncertainKitten]

Mango has brought up points I think I briefly thought of and then forgot.

And hell, if I were feeling playful enough I'd probably call a player out on lying (probably with their permission).

Mostly depends on the nature of the game. And this game is clearly one of don't have any expectations.

And see Picto Mafia II where I thought I was oh so super clever and town was dumb, and it turns out we were all fucktards. So, I certainly don't exempt myself from the stupid pills .

Rest assured, deep down inside, I think you're all fucktards.

So, assuming that I expect nothing due to the nature of the game, what then, Amished?

[UncertainKitten]

@Spy: Took me an hour to make that damn animooted gif. Did it awhile ago though. I finally was having enough mafia situations where it would get extensive use.

Either way, I don't mind lol reactions but I prefer to have it somewhat explained, which would indeed be nice from SPS.

[SpyreX]

lol reactions when its just lol reactions is BAD.

Now, if someone after the fact can clearly state what they were exactly aiming for with lol reactions then it can be awesome.

[Amished]

--> is inclined to agree with UK on all points.

unvote vote: Amished

Also to it is the fact that Amished is immediately acting as though SPS is totally serious (implying that he has completely accepted that SPS wouldn't lie, which suggests he knows SPS is town.) and that he tried to organize town's actions in response, and more specifically tried to direct a hypothetical day vig to check whether or not SPS was telling the truth (implying a desire to be seen as pro-town (looking for liars) and a desire for control of town's actions through that (to ensure he's not eliminated))

However, I'd still like to hear from SPS as to what reactions he expected/was looking for.

What?

@UK: I guess I'm not as experienced with bastard mod games as you are or something, but as any alignment I typically don't think about the mod. SCoug's b-mod game he pretty much stayed out of it and I was in a tar game where he pretty much stayed out of it except for vote-counts.

Therefore: it wouldn't even cross my mind that the mod would really step in on something like that.

I don't expect town to lie at all, ever (except for various lylo-endgame situations to turn the game around (damn you Sajin)), especially not in the middle of the day. Scum can (and do) lie when they think that they can get away with it (see my stance on mod "intervention"). Lying about a day-protect is an easy way to gain town-points without actually doing a damn thing since you control the kill anyways.

@mo: SPS is town or scum, right? I expect town to tell the truth, and scum to lie and/or tell the truth when it suits them. If SPS isn't telling the truth, then he's not a townie.

A = townies
B = scum
C = tell truth
D = tell lies

There are only A and B.

A only does C
B does C and D.

X did D. Therefore, X isn't A. If X isn't A, then X is B.

@Spyre: Exactly my point. He said it was for "reactions" but the person that he voted (who he was already voting for) didn't have *any* reactions. So SPS couldn't have been looking for reactions if it was for "lolreactions".

[UncertainKitten]

@Amished: See, the problem is, you are using an LAL rhetoric in probably the one case where it DOESN'T actually work. SPS is a derp lynch, and I know you are smarter than that, Amished.

It's obvious that SPS doesn't have scum intent behind his day protect. You still haven't adequately explained how SPS had scum intent, and have now fallen back on "Well townies don't lie >=["

This doesn't work 100% of the time. And this is a case where I think it's more obvious it is, at worst, a null tell.

[Amished]

I guess I don't see why it wouldn't actually work here then.

Lying never crossed my mind. I suspect anybody who considers it. I've been burned once by a townie lying; but not severely as I think the town would've lost that game anyways.

Where is the townie intent behind his dayprotect? I'm trying to look at it from both ways but I don't see why a townie would do something like that.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, lol reactions is basically what I figured SPS was doing it for. And lol reactions, in my experience, is actually a slight town tell.

The fact that it also does very little to absolutely nothing to further any scum agenda also makes it...not scummy. Anti town maybe because it's stupid, but not scummy.

And I feel your attacks aren't genuine, and you are defending a doomed stance because you've been backed into a corner.

In other news, maybe I'm just jaded because I've been in two games where a townie has claimed scum for no apparently reason. Well, the second time was SEMI justified but still "what?"

I've also only seen scum do lol reactions once, IIRC, and town do it three or four times.

As I said, it's a slight town tell to a null tell, but the fact that people are actually attacking him for it definitely raises my eyebrows.

[magnus_orion]

SPS is town or scum, right? I expect town to tell the truth, and scum to lie and/or tell the truth when it suits them. If SPS isn't telling the truth, then he's not a townie.

Not necessarily.

Why would town never lie, even when it suits them?
If scum lie and/or tell the truth when it suits them, how does it suit them here?
Also, how do scum know there are no day vigs? Didn't you suggest the hypothetical existence of one a little while ago?

[Amished]

The only person that comes to mind to do something like that for "lolreactions" was RichardGHP, and I hold pretty much anyone above him in terms of skill.

Also, how can he really say it was for "lolreactions" when nothing changed for him after he did that? It's a convenient excuse to get out of any pressure at all.

I will give you that it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense as scum, but it makes less (read: zero) sense as town. Especially after his

Fake daykills every time gets boring.

Unvote, vote: SocioPath

P.S. I chose LlamaFluff 'cause I figured that would be the most credible choice.

1) where he claimed he wanted it to be believed and credible (see the "P.S.")

I've played with SPS a couple times and I don't recall him ever doing something like this so it was out of character for him. Besides, what possible reactions would a protect actually garner? Did he expect scum to come out and say "oooo, I guess we can't kill him now, can we?"? I don't think so. The claim doesn't make sense for "lolreactions" nor does lying about it in the first place, nor does it fit my perception of SPS-town.

[UncertainKitten]

So...wait...

Amished, what were you saying about meta earlier?

OHHHHHH~!

You found Ray, not me. Besides, fuckall @ meta.

So um...wait...huh?

I've played with SPS a couple times and I don't recall him ever doing something like this so it was out of character for him. Besides, what possible reactions would a protect actually garner? Did he expect scum to come out and say "oooo, I guess we can't kill him now, can we?"? I don't think so. The claim doesn't make sense for "lolreactions" nor does lying about it in the first place, nor does it fit my perception of SPS-town.

Oh, wait, that's something else, isn't it? Please, I want to hear about this.

[Amished]

@mo: I gave an example of when town would lie, and no scenario that I can think of 7 pages into D1 fall into "town should lie right now".

Also, I said that I've seen day-vigs in b-mod games (SCoug's being the most vivid one) so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Secondly, Llama doesn't fall into my category of "should be day-vigged" so a protect would be unnecessary unless scum can day-kill.