War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[q21]

/confirm

[q21]

I'm just glad that Empking isn't in this game.

I won a game with Empking as my scumbuddy once....

[q21]

Quick days will only HELP the scum, so I intend to draw out their intentions and actions and refuse to let them cause chaos and push the town into hasty actions.

Wrong. Long days allow scum to accumulate rage points as has been pointed out. Quick days in terms of real life time help the town. Optimal town play requires long day is terms of posts but quick in terms of time.

Sorry for the fourth post but I think this is also important:
1. Town lost last time because town's HP were already low for random hurtings. I dont agree with random hurting but I also dont agree with long days (more rage points). We have to find a balance.

It didn't help, but what decided the game was MellowedMan's sabotage of the town. In general I agree with this statement, though.

2. So I propose we do a mass healing of everyone to take them to one more point of their current HP before we start hurting. This could be beneficial someday.

Agreed.

Heal: Cybele

3. We also could manage to have a fake votecount instead of having people hurting and/or healing. Like a normal game when someone is majority fake voted we could mass hurting him and "lynch" him.

This was a good idea in theory, but we deliberated too long. If we can make fake vote counts but come to a consensus relatively quickly then voting works.

Also.

Fake Vote: Hoopla[/b]
Her reasoning skills are better than that.

[q21]

Are you suggesting we just finish off anyone who gets hurt too much? Because this game is helped by decisive action, not killing off anyone who draws a few hits.

Its too easy for scum to subvert that line of thinking.

[q21]

I like the post rate of the game so far. Here are my comments on the game.

i did read the thread thanks

i am in favor of everyone who's pussyfooting around with fake votes just hurting him dead instead.

The problem is that if someone gets hurt 5 times, say, and then people decide they don't want to kill that person they either end up left on half life and an easy target for scum or other people have to use up their powers to heal them again.

speaking of organize, i'm organizing a brute squad, and inducting the following obviously town people into it immediately: abr, xyl, dgb, and tajo (if he'll accept). we should all agree on one person and put them down. over and over, until we've killed all the scum.

Even if all those people are town having a small portion of the players go off and play separately to the rest is bad enough. If one of them's scum you've given them an huge opportunity - and it isn't difficult to look very townie as scum at the beginning of a game.

All in all I don't really approve of rolfcopter's play, but copter reminds me of Coron in the original War in Heaven. Coron was town.

I'm a vig-day rolecop

You do realise that in this game this translates to Fallen Ophan, right?

One thing I am not clear about in the rules is how time works in this set-up? In otherwords, do we have 24 hours from Mr. Flay's post to hurt/heal someone 1 time? Tomorrow by 7am? Also if we dont use a hurt/heal does it carry over to the next 24 hour period?

From experience in the last game: You hurt/heal refreshes 24 hours after your last hurt/heal. Regardless of Flay's posts.

Note of Hoopla. On whom I very much like me vote.

ABR: Thanks for your summary - you put together a case weightier than expected, but I think you're exaggerating what to me looks merely like a strategy disagreement.

I'm more inclined to put my vote on roflcopter. The go in and hurt 'em straight away tactic isn't going to work if everyone plays that way - we're just weakening ourselves unnecessarily. I also want to echo Nuwen's sentiments in

116

, in regards to conclusive claims. It kind of irks me and provides a get out clause if nobody probes, or follows them up.

Vote: roflcopter

Shows the reasoning ability to know that just hurting people is a bad thing, even votes roflcopter for it... but her first non-confirmation post.

Good luck everyone!

So, I'm not super familiar with what the most sensible play is when it comes to hurting and healing, but from what I've read of the previous versions of these games, it's possible scum accrue extra damage/powers over time. I think it's in our interest to play this game in a relatively quick fashion.

Hurt: DrippingGoofball

Hi!

Scummy hypocrite much.

[q21]

Hush now. I have declared rofl town, so the matter is settled. Dissent will not be tolerated.

*facepalm*

I hate the way you do this. Really hate it. It's useless.

[q21]

I need support to kill vIQleS within the hour.

Who's with me?

For what? One loaded question?

By now Kin, you must realize that the grand majority of my case against you constitutes of trying to stall the game and not being able to come to a swift decision. You have but to support me in killing this vIQleS player whom you also suspect, and you tear the whole case down, providing you also act in a coherent manner afterwards. I await your response.

Really don't like this. Its scummy and manipulative.

[q21]

Really don't like this. Its scummy and manipulative.

That's my M.O.

Check out Friends and Enemies

where I prevented a mason getting killed night 1, and got two scum lynched up until my own unfortunate demise. All this by outing my own mason partner and threatening the town to reveal the third if they didn't lynch who I wanted (scum).

Or Final Fantasy Mafia,

where I fake-counter-claimed a daycop fakeclaim by a vanilla townie. I successfully got this townie lynched before he could get another vanilla townie lynched, and then get himself lynched because the person he claimed was scum, was in fact town. I went on to kill the real scum day 2.

Or again, in Fire Emblem Mafia

, where I manipulated a player that had the ability to give a 1-shot vig into giving it to me, because I wanted the scum to kill me that night so I could activate my ability as a death motivator. I also got 2 of the scum this way (by figuring out how the scum would react to my pulling of the strings).

Point being,

I play a complicated game

. Mafia is a game of manipulation after all.

Mafia is a game of discussion. Its only a game of manipulation if you're scum. How many times have you been successfully manipulative as scum? How many times have you been unsuccessfully manipulative as town?

[q21]

Mafia is a game of discussion. Its only a game of manipulation if you're scum. How many times have you been successfully manipulative as scum? How many times have you been unsuccessfully manipulative as town?

You play your game, I play mine. Unless you can show how my actions are bad for the town in

this

game, you have nothing on me.

Wait, so previous games are relevant only if they favour you?

In this game? Well, trying to force someone else to do your will by holding a case over their head certainly isn't good for anyone.

[q21]

AS PER THE FONZ STIPULATION, EVERYONE SHOULD VOICE THEIR INTENT TO KILL ONE OF THESE THREE PLAYERS:

Shinnen_no_Me / Xylthixlm / vIQleS

Since they were the only ones to be nominated, its time to destroy one of these three players.

Also, I don't particularly think that any of these deserve to die, why are you limiting the towns targets?

[q21]

They are relevant to show you the extreme things that I have done.

And will be promptly ignored because the times you've been manipulative as scum are just a relevant.

Its very simple.

If I think a player is a liability because he can't do something, and then he does it, it proves to me that he is no longer a liability. What's so scummy about that q21?

Your post seemed much more about getting kinetic to do what you wanted and a much less about him proving himself not to be a liability.

[q21]

q21, who do you find most suspicious?

At the moment, Hoopla, hence my 'vote' being on her.

[q21]

Your post seemed much more about getting kinetic to do what you wanted and a much less about him proving himself not to be a liability.

Kinetic suspects someone.

I suspect that someone too.

I want him to commit to that suspicion.

Where is it that I'm making him do something against his will? He said he would conduct his decisions in a timely fashion. I want to see him put these words into actions.

Where do you see anything scummy??

It was the "You have but to support me in killing this vIQleS player" condition your post set for your case on kinetic to be voided that makes it smell. Would his commitment to any other lynch have voided your case?

q21, who do you find most suspicious?

At the moment, Hoopla, hence my 'vote' being on her.

Well you seem awfully unsure, because this is our convention:

I suggest to avoid the general lowering of health, we use a system where someone needs to gain the pledged support of at least one other player (committing to hurting them if you do) before doing any hurting. Something like this:

Call intent to hurt *Name*

Then someone else needs to post

I'm with you, *Name!*

I would also propose not healing anyone outside of the start-of-day mass heals, UNLESS they are hurt in contravention of the above.

If you want to add anyone to that list, you may promptly do so.

I didn't realise we had officially taken up this as a convention. I don't see any particular benefit in it, but I don't see any harm either. Fonz's suggestion doesn't look like it was intended as a vehicle to form a list of the only people who can be hurt like you seem to be doing with it. It seems intended for each person who wants to hurt someone to get sanction rather than to blanket sanction the hurting of specific people.

Regardless, I'm not going to add her to your "list" yet because I don't think there is enough evidence to kill anyone at this point.

[q21]

I also think it's important to sort out the lurkers from the scummy lurkers. Generally, scum lurkers will either say less or pretend that they're saying something when they're not.

This describes your own play fairly well.

[q21]

At least I'm committing to a kill.

Hence, 'fairly well' not 'perfectly'.

[q21]

Post 283 by Hoopla makes a very good point.

Unvote hoopla, vote ABR

[q21]

@ roflcopter 287.

I agree about hoopla and seraphim, I disagree on ABR.

[q21]

Who is left...


Drench, Juls, q21, zwet, Tenchi

Actively lurking much? Not liking it. I'd appreciate a little more activity.

If I'm active lurking, so are you. I have one less post than you (the same with this post included) and so far as I know I haven't been non-committal, vapid, wishy-washy or reactive. Just because I don't throw as much shit around as some people, doesn't mean I'm lurking.

IMO, this game is exploding too fast. I can barely keep up with it.

Complaining about the pace of play being to fast when fast play is exactly what the town needs. Scummy.

Hasn't made a post longer than two lines so far this game. Scummy.

Hurt: Xyl

He's relegated to posting one-liners in an attempt to look townier.

Extra scummy considering all you've ever posted is one liners with a smattering of two liners.

Okay. We don't have the luxury of taking as long as we would in a normal game here.

EVERYONE MUST CLAIM WHO THEY WANT TO DIE FIRST IN THEIR NEXT POST.

I'm tempted not to do this, just because you suggested it and I hate being told what to do. But I won't be that childish.

Unvote ABR
Call intent to hurt Zwet.

[q21]

Fair enough, I'll back Xyl above any of the other two unless, as you mentioned, someone backs my intent in the very near future. If they don't I will simply pursue Zwet in the next aeon.

[q21]

Fair enough, I'll back Xyl above any of the other two unless, as you mentioned, someone backs my intent in the very near future. If they don't I will simply pursue Zwet in the next aeon.

Will you back a hoopla hurt?

Yes. But my own hurt is hereby directed at zwet.

Hurt zwetshenwasser

[q21]

IMO, this game is exploding too fast. I can barely keep up with it.

Complaining about the pace of play being to fast when fast play is exactly what the town needs. Scummy.

Hasn't made a post longer than two lines so far this game. Scummy.

Hurt: Xyl

He's relegated to posting one-liners in an attempt to look townier.

Extra scummy considering all you've ever posted is one liners with a smattering of two liners.

Is this the totality of the case against zwet?

He's a non-contributing hypocrite who complains that a game the town needs to play quickly is being played too quickly. There needs to be more? There is also the fact that while other players under suspicion have something town points somewhere along the line, zwet has none.

[q21]

There is also the fact that while other players under suspicion have something town points somewhere along the line, zwet has none.

Please point to what WaltWishbone has done that gives him town points.

Although he's done a lot of agreeing with people he has put in the effort to make a big posts and some decent length ones thereafter. On day one, without have done anything overtly scummy I'll give him a little credit for the effort.

Admittedly, in WW's case town points may be too strong a term, but I've seen nothing to make me want to see him dead. If I'm reading him wrong at the moment and he is scum I'm not too worried. Because if he continues to make big/decent length posts he will trap himself. If he suddenly stops he'll be suspicious for that.

[q21]

Admittedly, in WW's case town points may be too strong a term, but I've seen nothing to make me want to see him dead. If I'm reading him wrong at the moment and he is scum I'm not too worried. Because if he continues to make big/decent length posts he will trap himself. If he suddenly stops he'll be suspicious for that.

Okay. Please point out something in any of his posts

so far

that could trap him in the future.

I'm not going to go dig through his posts now when I don't even suspect him at the moment.

You've presented your opinion on why town lost many times, you miserable self-centred piece of shit. That doesn't change the fact that you're wrong, and your plan is incredibly scum-benefitting because it will slow the game down and allow the scum to rack up more rage points.

I REPEAT FOR THE HARD OF THINKING: TAJO'S PLAN = HANDING THE GAME TO SCUM.

I am SO fucking angry right now.

Tajo plan is not inherently flawed, but it does require the cooperation of close to the entire town and deadlines that are adhered to. If these are lacking it becomes a distraction. I argued for it for a while because it can work.

Now, though, it has become clear that the time it would take to convince everyone would be more detrimental than adopting any of the plans/conventions on offer. Hence Call to hut Zwet.

Does anyone know, PRECISELY, how rage worked last time?

Each fallen angel got one rage point every week, Sunday noon if I remember correctly. They could store rage points up to a maximum of 3 and distribute them as and when they saw fit.

Hurt: Rofl

for creating groups of "sure-protown-buddies", very scummy.

With an divine glow, Shinnen unsheathes her

longsword

, with the speed of a lighting, and swiftly yet precisely strikes the fallen Rofl's back, leaving a trial of fire as the edge cuts both the air and the flesh of the heathen.

hurt: hoopla

with a giant flaming angel

sword

of justice

It would appear we have two seraphim, we'll need to wait for the next official hurt count to be sure. If it is the case I'm going to be all for killing Shinnen and if she comes up town rolfcopter is next. I don't see two town seraphim.

[q21]

Actually... in light of the recent discussion I have the feeling WaltWishbone is an Ophan. That puts his actions in a slightly better light, although it still doesn't excuse his lack of interaction.

This gets the award for dumbest post of the entire fucking game.

And, as promised in 499 there is roughly an hour and forty minutes before I hurt Shinnen.

[q21]

Actually... in light of the recent discussion I have the feeling WaltWishbone is an Ophan. That puts his actions in a slightly better light, although it still doesn't excuse his lack of interaction.

This gets the award for dumbest post of the entire fucking game.

Daytalking scum with no nightkill. I'm pretty sure they would have noticed by now anyways, so it's better to get it out there for the town.

I hadn't noticed until you said something, I wouldn't be surprised if the scum were in the same boat. The blatancy makes doubt your post was scum motivated, though.

As promised.

Hurt Shinned_no_me

I'm an Ophanim. Now what do you want?

Sigh... like I said, your first claim of Dayvig Rolecop translates as Fallen Ophan... so I'm not taking any claim from you seriously.

[q21]

Walt, she is proven to be a seraphim, but that actually increases her chances of being scum. If she was the only one we knew about I wouldn't be pushing for her death, but if she's town then rolf is probably scum. Personally I see one loyal seraphim for one fallen seraphim as a fair trade, if it even comes to that.

[q21]

I don't care that both Fonz and copter don't want anything to do with a DGB bandwagon. I will find my support elsewhere.

Call Intent to hurt DGB

She was the main detractor from the Shinnen lynch, and its about time for you to see it.

She's the only Ophan in the open (well, zwet claimed but I don't trust him as far as I could throw him) so I don't want to see her get hurt yet.

I do have some questions for her, though. Why the sudden change of read on ABR, if its anything to do with your role, tell us. If not, tell us.

Yes, and some players mindlessly follow him. One player (Juls) even referred herself as ABR's "puppet". Needless to say, Juls is scum no matter which way you look at it. At first I thought he was town. I'm far less certain now. If Shinnen flips scum, I'll bet at least half the scum is in the list of people that ABR is pushing for the rest of us to hurt. And since Shinnen has been uber-scummy, I wouldn't be shocked if nearly all the scum was on the wagon, making sure that (1) they get a free lynch off a townie or (2) they get rid of such a loose canon buddy.

I don't think Juls and ABR are scum together. If they were why would Juls ask ABR who to hurt in thread. Why not just ask via daytalk? I'm open to the possibility of one being scum but not both.

I torn between hurting Hoopla who I've never fully stopped suspecting and who's comments towards the very end of the Shinnen kill make her look worse. Or going back to hurting zwet who I was hurting before the Shinned v rofl seraph reveal.

[q21]

and I know you're going to parade around like the egocentric town hero because you hit scum D1.

Agree that ARB hasn't done anything of the sort. If anything he's tried distance form the credit claiming, which is a point in his influence.

Fonz (and to a lesser degree rolf) has been doing this and included ARB. The degree to which Fonz has been trying to claim credit is actually starting to look a little scummy.

[q21]

ebwop: Agree that ARB hasn't done anything of the sort. If anything he's tried distance form the credit claiming, which is a point in his favour.

... no clue where the word influence fits in there?

[q21]

and I know you're going to parade around like the egocentric town hero because you hit scum D1.

Agree that ARB hasn't done anything of the sort. If anything he's tried distance form the credit claiming, which is a point in his influence.

Fonz (and to a lesser degree rolf) has been doing this and included ARB. The degree to which Fonz has been trying to claim credit is actually starting to look a little scummy.

no, fonz is town

I tend to feel that way in general. But the credit claiming spate set my teeth on edge.

[q21]

# Shinnen_no_Me - Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz, Kinetic, DrippingGoofball, Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim, q21, Juls, Xylthixlm, Nuwen x2, The Fonz, roflcopter x2 (13) Healed by: Seraphim (1)

THERE HAS TO BE SCUM HERE.

Since that list contains 14 of the remaining 19 players... you're probably right. Well done.

[q21]

# Shinnen_no_Me - Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz, Kinetic, DrippingGoofball, Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim, q21, Juls, Xylthixlm, Nuwen x2, The Fonz, roflcopter x2 (13) Healed by: Seraphim (1)

THERE HAS TO BE SCUM HERE.

Since that list contains 14 of the remaining 19 players... you're probably right. Well done.

Maybe because taking out the players that are prob town would help?
I have no idea who do you think is scum. Share, plz?

I torn between hurting Hoopla who I've never fully stopped suspecting and who's comments towards the very end of the Shinnen kill make her look worse. Or going back to hurting zwet who I was hurting before the Shinned v rofl seraph reveal.

There are my two favourites for hurting at the moment.

Also, I feel that among the more competent looking players there is scum, I fail to believe that all the scum in this game will be obvious. of the apparently competent players ABR is most suspect to me. Its true that I find myself agreeing with him at times, but he is actively being manipulative.

[q21]

EBWOP: (don't know how ARB's name got in there)

# Shinnen_no_Me - Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz, Kinetic, DrippingGoofball, Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim, q21, Juls, Xylthixlm, Nuwen x2, The Fonz, roflcopter x2 (13) Healed by: Seraphim (1)

THERE HAS TO BE SCUM HERE.

Since that list contains 14 of the remaining 19 players... you're probably right. Well done.

Maybe because taking out the players that are prob town would help?
I have no idea who do you think is scum. Share, plz?

I torn between hurting Hoopla who I've never fully stopped suspecting and who's comments towards the very end of the Shinnen kill make her look worse. Or going back to hurting zwet who I was hurting before the Shinned v rofl seraph reveal.

There are my two favourites for hurting at the moment.

Also, I feel that among the more competent looking players there is scum, I fail to believe that all the scum in this game will be obvious. of the apparently competent players ABR is most suspect to me. Its true that I find myself agreeing with him at times, but he is actively being manipulative.

[q21]

She tried to, though.

She only tried because someone asked her to prove she couldn't.

Was ABR, if I remember correctly.

[q21]

Yesterday consensus was easy only because we had to decide between rolf and Shinnen.

I thought we were deciding between Hoop and shinnen?

Then you should pay more attention.

[q21]

giving her scum buddies an excellent opportunity to pick up some early scumhunting points and possibly place themselves in a position to lead the town.

This seems to be the case with q21. Why do people think he's pro-town again?

If you're going on bussing Shinnen then you really need to read the thread again. I'm assuming that the people who think I'm protown are doing so because I am.

[q21]

Hurt: Juls

The only thing she's done is give a lame excuse for following the crowd "like a puppet"

Hurting someone on full health with no consent from anyone at all. Just shifted to you for the person I'm going to hurt in 40 minutes.

[q21]

I know what ABR is like as scum. And he's just like that.

You claimed earlier that you could read ABR like a book and that he was town. Since you ignored me the first time I'll ask again, why the about face on ABR?

[q21]

Why'd it take you 800+ posts to start making sense, Walt.

[q21]

How'd you figure that, pop?

[q21]

This post...[/color]

giving her scum buddies an excellent opportunity to pick up some early scumhunting points and possibly place themselves in a position to lead the town.

This seems to be the case with q21. Why do people think he's pro-town again?

...kind of got me thinking, and after briefly skimming q21's posts, I think he does fit that description. This one is mainly a hunch though.

I said this when ABR first made that post. If your looking at me for bussing Shinnen in order to "pick up some early scumhunting points" go read the thread again.

[q21]

I said this when ABR first made that post. If your looking at me for bussing Shinnen in order to "pick up some early scumhunting points" go read the thread again.

You answered with "because I do pro-town things". Hardly worth the effort of making a post in the first place, to be quite honest.

giving her scum buddies an excellent opportunity to pick up some early scumhunting points and possibly place themselves in a position to lead the town.

This seems to be the case with q21. Why do people think he's pro-town again?

If you're going on bussing Shinnen then you really need to read the thread again.

I'm assuming that the people who think I'm protown are doing so because I am.

Said it then, said it again. The second sentence in this post was tongue in cheek, apologies if that wasn't clear.

[q21]

Also

Hurt Zwetshenwasser

[q21]

Q, why?

Unsanctioned hurt on Juls.
Hypocritical hurt on Xyl.
A roleclaim I honestly don't believe and another one that's just stupid.
General lack of content.

Those are the four points that stick out to me most clearly.

Agree that pop's plan re: Hoopla = fail and possibly scum.

[q21]

Agree that pop's plan re: Hoopla = fail and possibly scum.

You mean I am possibly scum?

I felt your plan looked a bit like one scum trying to keep another alive to make use of as much rage as possible. So yes, I felt it made you possibly scum. Her coming up as Loyal Cherub shoots that down, though.

Its still a little scummy because you could well have been trying to set up a precedent for when it was actually a scum at 1 hp.

Intent to hurt: zwet

Agree.


I don't like Walt's play leading up to the hoopla lynch. It seemed a lot like he was simply trying to aggravate ABR and not actually posting much to do with the game.

[q21]

Not that post. Posts like these:

NO. I'm going to tunnel-vision on you so bad Xyl's attacks on you will be like a joke.

YOU WILL HURT HOOPLA.

This is by FAR the most PRO-TOWN, and NECESSARY thing to do.

Copter is at 12hp. You must hurt Hoopla. We can heal Copter later. OK?

dude if you think trying to scare me by comparing xyls attacks on me bothered me you have no idea who I am.

I love fightng with him, he is fiesty. If you wanna do me. do it, I have no problem dying and flipping town.

NO YOU FUCKING **#%#@%^.

This is so goddamned important that you hammer. Who gives a fuck about the healling right now, seriously?????

You &#%^@# @#$&^@#$&@ I'm going to kill you if you dare heal copter.

HE HIMSELF DOESNT WANT YOU HEAL HIM. DONT YOU UNDERSTAND?? HELLOOOO

I bet you are cute when you are angry sweets.

Stop being so damned selfish with this bullshity promise because I swear you are soaring to the top of my scum list every moment that passes without you saying that you will hurt Hoopla.

thats ok when I flip towen you and xyl can both look stupid.

You are either the biggest village idiot I've ever met or scum if you heal copter instead of hurting Hoopla.

Mafia will benefit from you healing copter.

Bad, bad, bad.

Brother if you think what you have just posted on this board to me is the worst thing I have ever been called, you have no fucking clue I am. I think you are cute.

...and you didn't answer my question are you gonna hang everyone that does not vote for hoopla? Why have I become the one person you are fixated on? Go tell Techni to fuck off and you will lynch him.

[q21]

Screwed up the last set of quote tags.... whatever.

[q21]

No, just the posts where I felt you were goading ABR into being even more aggressive. ABR started being aggressive all by himself, true, but I felt you started trying to aggravate him, to push him as far as you could.

[q21]

Also, has ABR apologized or admitted he is wrong any time?

He ignored the whole disaster. Swept it under the rug. A normal person would show some sign of embarrassment. From ABR, a simple mention that demanding that players show their inability to hurt, when other players can do secret hurt, is not a valid strategy. It was as if he doesn't want the town to play smart.

Also, a town with half a brain would have picked up on ABR's failure, and grown a pair.

I dont understand you, DGB. You say ABR is scum for setting you a "trap" that only 5 years old would fall for and for his relations with "this game is too much for me" Juls, even when his meta tells he is town?

From what I can tell his meta is pretty undecided on whether he's scum or town.

ABR in Countdown of the Illuminati giving an example of him being manipulative as town to excuse the way he was playing as scum.

Plus, I always play by leading the town:

viewtopic.php?p=631765#631765

ARB in this game doing the same thing in this game.

Really don't like this. Its scummy and manipulative.

That's my M.O.

Check out Friends and Enemies

where I prevented a mason getting killed night 1, and got two scum lynched up until my own unfortunate demise. All this by outing my own mason partner and threatening the town to reveal the third if they didn't lynch who I wanted (scum).

Or Final Fantasy Mafia,

where I fake-counter-claimed a daycop fakeclaim by a vanilla townie. I successfully got this townie lynched before he could get another vanilla townie lynched, and then get himself lynched because the person he claimed was scum, was in fact town. I went on to kill the real scum day 2.

Or again, in Fire Emblem Mafia

, where I manipulated a player that had the ability to give a 1-shot vig into giving it to me, because I wanted the scum to kill me that night so I could activate my ability as a death motivator. I also got 2 of the scum this way (by figuring out how the scum would react to my pulling of the strings).

Point being,

I play a complicated game

. Mafia is a game of manipulation after all.

[q21]

EBWOP: The original research for my above post was done by Hoopla, before someone tries to say I'm claiming credit for work I didn't do.

[q21]

I'm going to start watching tomorrow, folks. I'd like to know what Juls has done or said to move her into the "sheepish" category, tajo,

and I'm disturbed that no one has called out Walt on his uncalled for annoyance of ABR and spamminess.

Umm... I did... pay attention when you read.

[q21]

As SK I play exactly like town. See Beast Wars mafia.

According to DGB you play scum as a survivor... which is about the same way I expect you would play town and serial killer. And it was a game you offered when asked to provide examples of scum meta.

The point, however, was that your meta is inconclusive.

[q21]

Yep.

[q21]

I see Drench has been posting over in Mish Mash, but not here. Let's see if he's actually paying attention.

Hurt: Drench

Xylthixlm finds Drench resting under a tree with his eyes closed, strumming a lute. Out comes the Golden Hammer for a gentle tap on the side of the head. SQUEAK!

What happened to getting sanction before hurting people?

[q21]

Xyl: How much hurt has Walt taken so far?

If he's at less than half Cherub HP I'll help finish him, otherwise I'm hurting zwet again in 40 min.

[q21]

Hurt WaltWishbone

[q21]

Everybody hurting Walt, do you still think he is scum?

I'm personally surprised there are so many seraphim, but I still think he needs to die. If he comes up town then its doesn't change much for nuwen and rofl, they were only ever partially confirmed anyway - they'll be slightly less confirmed, but really, meh.

If Walt comes up scum, even if he's lying about being seraphim and is only actually erelim, it still pretty much 100% confirms nuwen and rofl.

Also, not to be a fear monger or anything, but my memory of the first game tells me that the people voicing the idea that scum have no rage yet are probably wrong. So I went and checked it out. That game started on a Thursday, but the scum still got rage every Sunday including, so far as I know, the first. This means we're quite likely to be within a few days of the scum getting their second rage point each.

I don't like the way poptajo hasn't picked up on this since he was in that game too.

[q21]

100%confirmed does not exist.

I know that, but if Walt is scum rofl and nuwen would as close to it as possible.

[q21]

ebwop: I know that, but if Walt is scum rofl and nuwen would as close to it as is possible.


...reads better, from a puerly stylistic standpoint, that way.

[q21]

I don't see a correlation. There's like, 16 peaks, so that chances are great that a spike will occur right at, or after RP's.

Eyeballing, only 2 of the seven points are clearly associated with a spike. Three seem associate with a decline, and the rest are ambiguous.

There doesn't even seem to be a weekend vs. weekday correlation.

All it shows is that potajo really cares about this game and finding scum in it. That makes him town. From now on I will be poptartajo's puppet/slave.

***just kidding***

The thing on that graph to be looking at are the little red dots at the bottom that indicate the scum getting rage points. They happen each and every Sunday.

[q21]

does that one ginormous spike on the graph coincide with a rage dump?

If memory serves that is correctly, yes.

Anyway, I didn't intend to shift the discussion all the way back to the first game, just to point out that I think rage is a real and present danger. Keeping a possible scum like Walt alive could well be the difference between the scum being able to off an Ophan on Sunday and not being about to off an Ophan on Sunday.

[q21]

Yes. Yes it does.

[q21]

I'm just laying down prophecy. One day, there will be a player named Neo. DBG will go on a crusade and he will be scum, therefore making him The One.

On that note, seeing as my Drench hurt is a dead-end, I'm hoping that it doesn't count as I certainly don't want a replacement attacked right out the door.

I don't like the way you, and Fonz, went on a lurker hunt against Drench. The lurker hunt idea was fine, lurking is, to a degree further than normal, scummy in this game, but one of you should have picked up on the fact that he had been replaced.

That whole incident smells bad.

I feel that Walt is town from his response when he'd "died".

Hurt Swet

Being trying to get him killed for a while, unless someone can give me good reason why he's town I'm going to focus on that.

Also, the number of times that ARB has called intent to hurt someone and never followed through is starting to get to me.

I like your 148, Kinetic.

Call intent to hurt vIQleS

By now Kin, you must realize that the grand majority of my case against you constitutes of trying to stall the game and not being able to come to a swift decision. You have but to support me in killing this vIQleS player whom you also suspect, and you tear the whole case down, providing you also act in a coherent manner afterwards. I await your response.

I don't care that both Fonz and copter don't want anything to do with a DGB bandwagon. I will find my support elsewhere.

Call Intent to hurt DGB

She was the main detractor from the Shinnen lynch, and its about time for you to see it.

Intent to hurt: zwet

Yet, on the FIRST lynch, You, Fonz, Rofl, and ABR danced and claimed responsibly for killing Shinnen like it was all you guys.

No.

Call intent to hurt Kinetic

[q21]

for posterity, lets list some appeals that kinetic has been making recently

appeal to emotion
appeal to fear
appeal to authority

there's probably more fallacies going on, but those are the ones that really pop out

I can see the first two, but please point to an example of the third. If it's there I missed it.

Note that ABR spent all day 1 bus'ing Shinnen heavily and bossing everyone around, and now he's just coasting, feet up on the dinner table, Juls-slave in tow.

That's so NOT a townie portrait.

I've noticed.

Thirded.

In fact I'm going to

Call intent to hurt zwet

again because I'm no longer comfortable with ABR's sanction on that and while a few others have hurt him no one else has actually given sanction.

Also, maverick hurting a very likely town seraphim to death is bad. Its the first bad thing nuwen's done, but it's bad enough to get mentioned again.

[q21]

q21, what exactly makes you so comfortable with lynching a claimed Ophanim?

Doubt that all three claimed Ophanim are town and the fact that I feel you're the most likely to be scum.

[q21]

q21, what exactly makes you so comfortable with lynching a claimed Ophanim?

Doubt that all three claimed Ophanim are town and the fact that I feel you're the most likely to be scum.

You think there is a Scum Ophan in this game?

I think there's decent chance of it. But I understand that others may not. As such, an no longer trusting ABR's motives so much, I reissued my intent to hurt. I'll only pick it up again if at least 2 players (ABR and Juls counting as one) back me on it before I can next hurt.

[q21]

As of post 1591:

zwetschenwasser has 2 fewer damage points than expected.

It is not clear whether WaltWishbone's heal on roflcopter will count.

Mod:

Is the last damage count accurate with regards to zwet?

[q21]

^ Townie post. I am impressed by firestarter's start to the game.

[q21]

Also notice the q21 crusade on zwetschenwasser.

I think he's scummy. There's more of a case on him than most other people with decreased health totals. I noticed that the support I had earlier has dried up, though, so I called intent again. No one's backed me so I'm leaving him alone, I thought that was how it worked.

I don't like this little giusepe dgb xyl alliance here...we should kill them all.

The difference between this and rolf's brute squad at the beginning of the game? Maybe the fact that you aren't on this one.

for posterity, lets list some appeals that kinetic has been making recently

appeal to emotion
appeal to fear
appeal to authority

there's probably more fallacies going on, but those are the ones that really pop out

I can see the first two, but please point to an example of the third. If it's there I missed it.

Here you go:

I AM THE BEST AT MAFIA I WON TWO SCUMMIES

Misrepresentation of note.

its like xyl isn't even trying here. i think he knows i've nailed him

and he dies in the fastest fashion i can muster.

call intent to hurt xylthixlm

if you're joining me sound off like you've got a pair. my recharge finishes saturday night at 11, and he's getting a pounding right then.

Without Walt to whale on his posts have suddenly become very flimsy. I support this hurt. Though I have to ask, if no one had offered support, would you have hurt him anyway when you recharged?

Also the Juls thing needs to end. My hurt is recharged, if no one speaks up to stop me in the next 30 minutes I'll finish her.

[q21]

The most active players in the game are such:

DGB, pop, Xyl, myself, rofl, nuwen, ABR, Julz (to an extent)

Also, just remembered this, I've posted more than Juls and almost as much as Nuwen.

[q21]

I plan on killing Julz at 8:30 when my hurt renews. How about healing me instead since I have 6 damage?

How long until 8:30 your time?

[q21]

Hmmm... re-read shows one actually-significant thing done by q21 is hurting zwet. Rethink.

May I take this as one of the two sanctions I want to hurt zwet again?

[q21]

May I take this as one of the two sanctions I want to hurt zwet again?

I'm against hurting zwet.

So, one for, one against? I'll wait until it gets to two more for than against.

Trying to decide what exactly a Juls-town flip tells us. The answer I believe is, well, nothing. Except that she honestly did think ABR as the towniest player.

[q21]

I'm assuming that's meant to be "Here's why we shouldn't hurt zwet." I can see what you're saying, though I disagree that's he's been far less scummy than anyone.

Though if he were really a town Ophan I would expect him to be dead by now.

[q21]

I don't need support to hurt whoever I find scummy.

Actually, nevermind. I've started my meditation, so forget the hurts.

... this. Complete disregard for any kind of plan the town may have.

[q21]

... this. Complete disregard for any kind of plan the town may have.

It's still not scummy. We need a balance between the town's plan, and players doing what they truly believe in. Zwet isn't upsetting that balance.

What's your stance on rofl, then?

q21 - NotTown

I thought he might have been town early on but he's been tunneling on zwet like nuts. Going for a policy lynch?

If I was "tunneling on zwet like nuts" I wouldn't have put my zwet hate on the back-burner in order to participate in other lynches, would I? That said, tunnelling is not scummy.

Not policy lynch, no. Reasons (I'll take the opportunity to lay them out for everyone.

Unsanctioned hurt on Juls.
Hypocritical hurt on Xyl.
Admittance that he has no regard for the rest the town thinks with respect to using his actions.
The circumstances around his claim are iffy - he first scolds Xyl for ophan rolefishing, then after Xyl's next post where Xyl says that he doesn't think Ophan's should claim. Next post, zwet claims.
He's the scummiest of the three claimed ophan's by a long shot - the scum just demonstrated that they had enough rage to kill an ophan-zwet and they didn't. killing a town-ophan >> killing kinetic

[q21]

Wait you want us to hurt someone we don't think is scum?

[q21]

Wait you want us to hurt someone we don't think is scum?

WLC.
Please answer this with respect to your proposed plan.
kthxbai.

[q21]

firestarter - I hear you, but for a fakevote system to work it needs EVERYONE to be on board. Chances of that are what exactly?

[q21]

What? I don't post content and it's suspicious, I post content and it's suspicious?

Could it be your suggestion that we kill a townie along with a scumbag?

He dodged that question from me too.

[q21]

Wait you want us to hurt someone we don't think is scum?

WLC.
Please answer this with respect to your proposed plan.
kthxbai.

No. I want us to hurt two people who we think might both be scum, but not together. A couple you would say, 'if one is scum, the other isn't; and vice versa'. Off course, it'd have to be a collaborative effort, and people who are more leaning towards one of them would hurt that one, and others the second.

So that if we do kill a scum there's also a townie right there to go down with them. Right?

[q21]

firestarter - I hear you, but for a fakevote system to work it needs EVERYONE to be on board. Chances of that are what exactly?

We dont need everyone, just town.

DGB, Ive politely requested everyone vote on a system.

Its not hard, I promise.

Sorry, correction.

It needs EVERY TOWNIE to be on board. Chances of that are what exactly?

[q21]

Also I'm going to be kind of pissed if you guys let roflcopter bring me down to rage range singlehandedly. He claimed support from ABR and Juls, but Juls is dead and ABR appears to have switched to WLC.

ABR switches alot. He sets up

Intents to hurt[/b] and doesn't follow through. He backs truck loads of hurts on people. Basically, what he says and what he does are to different things. What he's doing is trying to spread the town's focus as far as possible. I've had enough of his play.

Call intent to hurt ABR

My PM to watch was about 8 hours too early, so I have to try again. It's interesting to note that scum realized this in order to quickly dump their rage points before my watch cycle started.

Wait... aren't watch PMs secret between you and the mod? How could scum have realised this if you aren't one?

GENIUS

Good catch... Fonzie cuaght us some scum.

Wait, so Fonz points out one thing about zwet, something that can genuinely be explained in a non-scummy way and you're ready to view zwet as scum.
I point what he's done in thread that is scummy and you ignore it and call him town.
How does that work?

[q21]

That's fucking bullshit q21. By attacking me YOU are spreading the hurts.

No its not and I didn't hurt you, so no, I'm not. If the town feels that now is not the time to kill you then no one will back me and I'll leave you alone. Of the people close to death the one I want to hurt, zwet, I haven't gotten much support for lately, so I turn my focus elsewhere.

You issued three intents to hurt that you've never followed through with, hurt people you haven't called intent to hurt on and backed lots of other wagons. Add to that that you're manipulative and aggressive, and my conclusion is that you're scum.

[q21]

Evidence plz.

I can do that... give me a few minutes.

[q21]

Here's ABR calling intent to hurt people. He has not backed a single one of these intent up with a hurt.

The bolded bit in the first post is also an example of him trying to manipulate kinetic. We've had that discussion though. I don't think he can refute being manipulative and aggressive anyway.

I like your 148, Kinetic.

Call intent to hurt vIQleS

By now Kin, you must realize that the grand majority of my case against you constitutes of trying to stall the game and not being able to come to a swift decision.

You have but to support me in killing this vIQleS player whom you also suspect

, and you tear the whole case down, providing you also act in a coherent manner afterwards. I await your response.

I don't care that both Fonz and copter don't want anything to do with a DGB bandwagon. I will find my support elsewhere.

Call Intent to hurt DGB

She was the main detractor from the Shinnen lynch, and its about time for you to see it.

Intent to hurt: zwet

For a while he had one sitting on kinetic that he only followed through on when kinetic was getting within easy lynch distance.

Actually, it just occurred to me that he was the last on-thread hurt of kinetic, maybe he was trying to manoeuvre kin into a position where he could be quickly ragekilled. Just a thought.

ABR hurting someone without an intent to hurt.

Hurt: Drench

His explanation.

I'm backed by Xyl who hurt Drench last page.

Except that that isn't how the Fonz system works. Its a system of advertising who you intend to hurt and hurting once you have written backing. Its not a system of A hurt someone, so now I can too.

Note, Xyl - who's hurt you're using as justification of your hurt - had no backing either.

Yes this is what you say of Fonz's system.

The Fonz system is clearly the best.

Yet you have clearly contravened it in the above posts and later when you healed Fonz.

Heal Fonz

Healing is something the Fonz's plan is opposed to. Or do you just pick up the bits of plans that suit you?

[q21]

q21:

1) I don't need backing to hurt a lurker.

2) I still want to hurt zwet.

3) After calling intent to hurt viqles and dgb, I said I didn't want to hurt the observers first.

So you're "spreading the damage" argument is baseless.

1. So the Fonz's system doesn't apply to lurkers... since when. And if this is what you believed why did you try to offer justification for your Drench hurt when someone asked you earlier?

2 and 3 directly contradict each other since zwet is apparently an observer too.

Fonz is NOT saying you should never heal anyone, he's saying that you shouldn't heal someone who is actively being hurt.

orly? (and no, the bold isn't mine)

This is insanely antitown.

I propose from now on we masshurt anyone who heals without town consensus.

Consider it a policy lynch. THe Walt/ViQ counterhealing is just delaying the death time for TWO of the town's top suspects.

Did you have consensus for your heal, ABR.

[q21]

Don't try to make bullshit backwards rationalizations to prepare yourself for when I come up town. Oh but he did this, so it was fair game to kill him. He was so suspicious, look! look! Fabricated garbage to keep yourself from feeling bad when you see I'm town. Good luck dgb, q21, giuseppe, viqles, zwet, Xylthixlm . I will look forward to the time you turn against each other because there's no one left - for you will have killed them all.

I don't want to make excuses because this is just how it is. Its no use unless we're shooting and no one notices the scum.

If it comes down to dgb, q21, giuseppe, viqles, zwet, Xylthixlm then we'll be one lynch of zwet, and maybe Xyl, away from winning the game.

Can I get backing to hurt him please?

[q21]

Alright Xyl, I don't believe Rofl should be able to be acting as unilaterally as he is. I've been saying all game I don't believe in unilateral action, and I'll stand to it.

Here's your

sign

heal.

Heal: Xylthixlm

I also support the ABR lynch.

I think it's time he kicked the bucket, as he hasn't put forth anything compelling lately. I can't hurt for another 24 hours, but count me in on that.

...snip


--==--

I'll support (and participate in) a WLC or ABR hurt.

As soon as my watch expires, I'll be hurting whoever has the most support... (least? you know what I mean...)

--===--

...snip

I'm going to take the underlined above as enough support for ABR hurt.

Hurt ABR

[q21]

Right, just read up on the last 5 pages and it saddens me that there was no ABR hurt. If all I get is half-arsed verbal support and have to hurt him to death myself, I will, but it would be much better if everyone who suspects him (lots of people, IIRC) gets behind hurting him to death.

I don't like pops most recent attack on rofl. I don't, in general, agree with rolf's approach, but he offered the explanation that he thinks Xyl and Nuwen are equally scummy and he's picked on and is hurting them. That was a valid answer to most of the questions thrown at him in that period, yet pop refused to hear it.

Second tarnish on pop's reputation for this game.

[q21]

Right, just read up on the last 5 pages and it saddens me that there was no ABR hurt. If all I get is half-arsed verbal support and have to hurt him to death myself, I will, but it would be much better if everyone who suspects him (lots of people, IIRC) gets behind hurting him to death.

I don't like pops most recent attack on rofl. I don't, in general, agree with rolf's approach, but he offered the explanation that he thinks Xyl and Nuwen are equally scummy and he's picked on and is hurting them. That was a valid answer to most of the questions thrown at him in that period, yet pop refused to hear it.

Second tarnish on pop's reputation for this game.

WTF?
Listen.
There are big probs that one of rolf and Nuwen is scum. If rolf were town, he would think that Nuwen should be scum for

the previous reason

and not for OMGUS. Basically Im waiting for her approach to decide the most likely target. Rolf can still be town ass, though.
The most important thing is that he decided to go against someone that

can

be town: Xyl. Why not going for someone that has to be scum from your POV? Nuwen has too many HPs? WTF?
q21 why did you agree with my pacific strategy before and then you have joined the brutal forces of monkeysquad?
And finally do you agree with rolf hurting Xyl, basically implying that you think Xyl is scum?

No, I don't agree with his hurting Xyl, though I am not sure Xyl is town by any means. I just thought his explanation for why he wasn't hurting nuwen was valid. With your reasoning laid out simply in one post I can see your POV, it didn't come across so clearly during that argument. Knowing what you were actually trying to get at makes that whole argument null for me.

I still think that the vote system would be good, but I realised that the amount of time it would take to convince everyone would be more detrimental than adopting Fonz's system and getting on with trying to find scum.

I like the newly devised system. Likes it a lot.

Rofl, you've critisced this plan for the last 9 pages or so, and we now have Q21 and Tenchi poking their heads in to again change the current plan.

This is the real fuck up if you ask me, the real stalling on the game.

I have done nothing of the sort. I have tried consistently to hunt scum within the parameters of whatever plan the town had adopted at the time.

My advice is to get a fucking case together, present it, and if it is a good case, it will recieve more than just the 3 players needed.

So far, there are players only arguing about the system being used.
And NOT trying to build a case.
Its purely anti-town, no more and no less.

So again, for the ones wanting to ignore/stall/do anything but want to catch scum/build a case..

BUILD A FUCKING CASE!!!
The only restriction is you need 3 players in total for support..
It cannot be any fucking clearer..

You have accused me of trying to change the plan and then shouted at people for not making cases. Let me tells you something: The most complete case in this game was presented by myself against ABR on this page. His responses were scummy and hypocritical and were negatively critiqued by three separate players (myself, DGB and Fonz) on the following page.

In this case, she merely followed someone else, and that someone is far far away from being confirmed town... ABR

Ironically, I'm not very far from being confirmed town.

The fact that rofl is trying to make is that she attacked Xyl before she left her vote to my discretion.

You? Confirmed Town? Seriously, what the fuck?

q21, zwet and tajo have been ignoring each other all game.

Either direct lies or completely not paying attention to the thread anymore. Either way ABR is flailing.

Zwet couldn't possibly be town. "It was more important for the scum to kill Kinetic than Zwet". Who said this? That person was right.

So you remember what I said, just not that I said it?

Hurt approval

ABR
zwet

[q21]

Let me get this straight, there are virtually unassailable numbers of votes on two players and we aren't going to kill them straight away? I thought people were against stalling the game.

[q21]

Let me get this straight, there are virtually unassailable numbers of votes on two players and we aren't going to kill them straight away? I thought people were against stalling the game.

We need to decide

which of them

to kill.

Personally I'm favouring ABR, but I'll participate in killing Seraphim should it be the will of the town.

[q21]

^ Hey look, Tenchi and roflcopter are openly ignoring the voting/intent to hurt system.

You should be thinking "Scum couldn't possibly be

that

blatant, could they?"

That was my first hurt for the entire game.

Aren't you special? <3

So you've been too non-committal to hurt anyone until now? Right? Or am I misinterpreting the above state of affairs.

Vote: ABR

So I was wrong on zwet, disappointing, but such is life. Still think ABR's scum.

The current rate of ragekill scares the shit out of me. We need to get a move on and we need to get it right.

[q21]

1. Why did you vote ABR, q21?

Same reason I've been voting/hurting him over the last 15 - 20 pages. I think he's scum. I presented a case earlier which was poorly countered. I've already dug up the link once this game, its on page 87 or 88, if you want to go look.

3. Do you ALL think that we have to solve the Nuwen-Rolf situation? I think Tenchi is also a Seraph? Please confirm.

I want to see either an official hurt count or a confirm from Tenchi before I decide anything. If Tenchi is seraphim he needs to die first, then we can deal with the others.

If he's not then I think we may unfortunately have to kill both. Of course if we hit scum first the other can stay alive I think, and be very useful. For the incredibly scummy action of hammering Walt I'd have to say Nuwen would go first.

5. Scum used rage in DGB and Nuwen. What are they trying to do?

I have no idea. This situation overflows with wifom, it should be ignored - maybe DGB should be healed, other than that, completely ignored.

[q21]

Thoughts of Seraphim, q21?

He's one person who I won't complain if he gets lynched before ABR (the other is Tenchi should he prove to be a seraph).

His hurt on Shinnen looks like it could be a bus, especially when he seemed so confident that Shinnen was the fallen Seraph out of him and rolfcopter. His hurt on Drench/firestarter is also pretty damning. His attempt to qualify lurking into categories isn't good either.

Like ABR for scum more though.

[q21]

Thoughts of Seraphim, q21?

He's one person who I won't complain if he gets lynched before ABR (the other is Tenchi should he prove to be a seraph).

His hurt on Shinnen looks like it could be a bus, especially when he seemed so confident that Shinnen was the fallen Seraph out of him and rolfcopter. His hurt on Drench/firestarter is also pretty damning. His attempt to qualify lurking into categories isn't good either.

Like ABR for scum more though.

Why ABR?

Because he's the person I feel most confidently to be scum. See the post not post not so long ago where I answered why I was voting for him. Asking a question I've already answered makes it look like you aren't paying much attention to what I say.

Nevermind, I miscalculated. Thought zwet had 12 HP.

How does this affect anything?

[q21]

Wow, the scum like me...

[q21]

Q21

.. In the first game we both played in, you were one of the louder voices, and did not remain in the shadows as much as you are in this one.
I went after you in that game, as you did me, and your defence was very good, it turned out you were town.
Im not getting the same vibes this time around, you seem to be content with offering a few posts here and there, but substance-wise, not alot.

My post rate last game = 1.8 post/day
My post rate this game = 8 posts/day

I'm

not

playing slowly, other people are posting like rabid monkeys chained to keyboards. I approve of the game rate and try to keep up, but I just don't have the time to make 200 - 300+ posts in 12 days.

As for remaining is the shadows: I've made cases and pushed them. I've stuck to my beliefs on who is scum and have done my best to hunt scum within whatever system the town is currently playing with.

[q21]

My post rate last game = 1.8 post/day
My post rate this game = 8 posts/day

I'm

not

playing slowly, other people are posting like rabid monkeys chained to keyboards. I approve of the game rate and try to keep up, but I just don't have the time to make 200 - 300+ posts in 12 days.

As for remaining is the shadows: I've made cases and pushed them. I've stuck to my beliefs on who is scum and have done my best to hunt scum within whatever system the town is currently playing with.

It isn't so much your post rate, its your style of play this game Q21.
I dont have alot to go on with you at the moment, and if anything, I'd be leaning neutral on you.

I added you into my post as to include everyone playing.
I have bigger fish to fry right now, but I did note the difference in playstlye this game to last.

See the bolded bit up there? That's the same way I set out to play the Mini. Only real difference is that I haven't gotten into a flaming (look a bad pun) row with anyone... yet.

[q21]

Even if you look a t the vote counts he tied for second... pretty wanted if you ask me.

[q21]

q21 did almost all of the public damage on zwet by himself, and yet i'm the one with a howling crowd of people calling for my blood because i've been soloing bitches.

double standard much?

Yes, I screwed up on zwet, but I actually stated my reasons for wanting to hurt zwet multiple times and had backing to do so. When it became apparent that that backing had ceased I stopped. How is that anything like what you've spent your time doing?

[q21]

Howling winds rise at your backs, and the skies turn an ugly purple-blue color, like an old bruise. Some faces look grim, some angered, and some merely pained as the chaos swirls and rages around you.

SECOND DAMAGE TALLY OF THE TWENTIETH ÆON

q21 is at 1 HP above his normal maximum.

Giuseppe, Nuwen, roflcopter, and The Fonz are all at normal HP.

Albert B. Rampage, DrippingGoofball, and populartajo have 1 damage each.
Seraphim has 2 damage.
Tenchi has 3 damage.
Firestarter has 3 damage.
Xylthixlm has 6 damage.

Shit.
Can we rule out the possibility that scum can damage each other or everybody has received damage so far?

Not willing to rule anything out.

[q21]

Typical, post explosion after I go to sleep.

I want to help kill Seraphim, but I seem to be under orders to heal someone tajo thinks is town. I'll decide which I do before I leave for any significant period of time again (approximately 2 hours from now).

[q21]

Why is the thread (comparatively) dead when I'm actually here?

[q21]

wifom much?

[q21]

Hurt: Seraphim

hurting prob scum >> healing possible town

[q21]

As much as I itch to know what the Metatron role did, there's no way to find out now and it doesn't actually matter. The important point is that it proves that there are roles beyond what are described in the beginning. This means there is cause to suspect the existence of a scum Ophan.

Xyl's play since Tenchi's death has been scummy.

I feel an apology to ABR is in order, I've suspected him for 30 pages, but Tenchi's death and reveal have thrown my entire view of the game off. I agree with everything he's said since that incident.

Both Seraphim and Xyl healed dgb. We now have our scum.

ROFLCOPTER, FONZ, TAJO, NUWEN, FIRESTARTER, GIUSEPPE, Q21

Unleash the hounds.

/in

14:00 (GMT + 2) tomorrow I hurt Xyl, since I think ABR just ended Seraphim. Kill Xyl and DBG then if the game's still going sort out rofl/nuwen.

[q21]

And look at Q21. He's still at +1. Why didn't the scum snipe him?

Because sniping Tenchi and having him flip cherub would royally screw with the town. Of course, you ended up shooting yourselves in the foot.

[q21]

Firestarter's play since Tenchi's death has been worrying. He went from hurting Serpahim and arguing against stalling to trying to shut the Seraphim lynch down... ie. stalling.

Possibly bussing his scumbuddy until he realised that the rest of the team had been blown open. Although, that makes one wonder why he would change target to DGB - better bus maybe?

Just thoughts, no concrete reads on him as yet.

[q21]

Firestarter's play since Tenchi's death has been worrying. He went from hurting Serpahim and arguing against stalling to trying to shut the Seraphim lynch down... ie. stalling.

Possibly bussing his scumbuddy until he realised that the rest of the team had been blown open. Although, that makes one wonder why he would change target to DGB - better bus maybe?

Just thoughts, no concrete reads on him as yet.

Please, lets avoid them until we get rid of the scum in front of our eyes.

Agreed.

Just commenting on what I see, though.

[q21]

Seraphim coming up town will mean that there's another scum outside of DGB, Xyl and rofl/nuwen. That's all, personally doubt it, think he's trying to pull intentionally what walt did accidentally on the chance that someone screwed up in hurting him.

[q21]

He thinks you're trying to set up mislynches that will lead to a scum win. I disagree, but what he's getting at is pretty obvious.

[q21]

FUCK.

FUCK.

FUCK.

[q21]

I take responsibilities for this death.
I really dont know what to make of this right now.

You were not alone in trying to kill him. Lots of people, myself included were involved.

[q21]

Firestarter's play since Tenchi's death has been worrying. He went from hurting Serpahim and arguing against stalling to trying to shut the Seraphim lynch down... ie. stalling.

Possibly bussing his scumbuddy until he realised that the rest of the team had been blown open. Although, that makes one wonder why he would change target to DGB - better bus maybe?

Just thoughts, no concrete reads on him as yet.

Firestarters thoughts on this game were very different before Tenchi's death...

Read my posts again Q.....

You'll find Im not opposed to a Seraphim lynch at all... never in fact.

Never claimed that you had said were opposed to it, rather that you'd tried to stall it after complaining about stalling before Tenchi's death. I agree with you on DGB/Xyl, as you pointed out later in this post, but there was no reason to stop hurting Seraphim.

[q21]

EBWOP

Firestarter's play since Tenchi's death has been worrying. He went from hurting Serpahim and arguing against stalling to trying to shut the Seraphim lynch down... ie. stalling.

Possibly bussing his scumbuddy until he realised that the rest of the team had been blown open. Although, that makes one wonder why he would change target to DGB - better bus maybe?

Just thoughts, no concrete reads on him as yet.

Firestarters thoughts on this game were very different before Tenchi's death...

Read my posts again Q.....

You'll find Im not opposed to a Seraphim lynch at all... never in fact.

Never claimed that you had said were opposed to it, rather that you'd tried to stall it after complaining about stalling before Tenchi's death. I agree with you on DGB/Xyl, as you pointed out later in this post, but there was no reason to stop hurting Seraphim.

[q21]

Never claimed that you had said were opposed to it, rather that you'd tried to stall it after complaining about stalling before Tenchi's death. I agree with you on DGB/Xyl, as you pointed out later in this post, but there was no reason to stop hurting Seraphim.

How could I stall it? I merely asked everyone to think about their next move, while also giving my thoughts on the DGB Ophan Claim/Xyl being cleared by it.

It was out of my hands... I am currently in recharge state, and if I had got Hurt to use, it would have went the way of Seraphim

after

discussing that I wanted DGB or Xyl first. I made no secret of this.

But I cannot get the DGB/Xyl claim out of my head.

The Metatron being introduced makes me feel really certain that at least 1 Ophan, is fallen.

You explicitly asked people to stop killing Seraphim.

Here

Im ordering everyone off the Seraphim lynch now!!

Time to think now....

Earlier, and from the previous game, there was no need for scum to have an Ophan in their ranks.

But now that we have a Metatron, that seemingly protects players from hurt, its very very likely that scum have an ophan with them.

We have DGB, who cleared Xyl, and I took it for what it was then.
But not now, with the knowledge from Tenchi's death.

Seraphim has acted scummy, as has most of the dead townies, but they've been townies nonetheless....

I think we need to remove DGB, and if my theory is correct.. Xyl follows.

Guys, think long and hard about our next move here, it's likely our last if we get it wrong.

INTENT TO HURT & VOTE: DGB

[q21]

q21 and Fire, you both are town, please avoid this fight and concentrate in Xyl and DGB please.

I'm going to hurt Xyl as soon as I can... but that's still 13.5 hours away. Nothing will change that short of another mindfuck like Tenchi's death.

... think me and FS just automatically argue...

[q21]

I can't believe q21 is apologizing to ABR.

Me neither. But he responded exactly as I did to Tenchi's death and it seemed genuine. Tenchi's death shifted most of my views on who is scum and town.

[q21]

Guys, stop and take a step back.

Considering everyone bashed Rofl repeatedly for his 'singlehandedly' taking Kinetic down to rage range, how do you feel about q21 actually singlehandedly taking Zwet into rage range?

I re-read myself, and realised i once had q21 as scum, and can't remember why i dropped it. Zwet flipping town reflects a lot on him, and no-one commenting on it makes me more suspicious.

Why you had me as scum and why you dropped it I can't answer.

I wasn't the only one to damage zwet, Seraphim did too, but thanks for that misrep. I made my points against zwet and had backing to hurt him. Worlds different from most of what rofl has done.

[q21]

Hurt Xyl

As promised.

[q21]

Alright then.

FUCK. THIS. SHIT!

The game is not yet over because the scum have committed one serious error in judgement: they haven't hurt me.

I am Michael, the Archangel of Battle.
I have lots (like, fuckloads) of HP.
I can send short messages through Flay, once every 72 hours.
I have Zeal Points.

Zeal Points are the Loyal version of Rage Points. I started with 2, I get 2 every Sunday and I get 1 every time a Fallen Angel is cast from heaven. I have used none.

I asked Flay, I can Zeal Hurt myself. Therefore scum can probably Rage Hurt themselves/each other.

Right now I'm torn for what to do:

My gut says:
Tajo has been playing us all game and that I should finish him now.
OR
Fonz has been playing us all game and that I should wait until tomorrow, hurt him and then finish him. Especially after his reasonless hurt on me.

My head says I should wait for rolf's flip so that I can help nail nuwen very quickly if necessary.

[q21]

I can send short messages through Flay, once every 72 hours.

To other players? Have you sent any?

Has anyone received one of these notes?

Yes, to other players. I note to one player every 72 hours. No, I haven't sent one yet since I can't think of any way use it to town advantage.

Do notes interfere with your damage/heal cooldown?

None of my powers interfere with hurt/heal cooldown.

I started with 2, I get 2 every Sunday and I get 1 every time a Fallen Angel is cast from heaven. I have used none.

This is important - rage mechanics probably reflect zeal, which explains where that fuckton of rage damage came from after only two weeks.

Agree.

q21: That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Really?

Also, calculated wrong, assuming 9 HP I can't kill Fonz even if I hurt him tomorrow.

[q21]

Firestarter, I thought very carefully about everything you posted last page the moment I got my Role PM. If I have a true opposite then I doubt its rofl since I can't do extra in thread damage.

Tajo, I don't have enough ZP to kill off either seraph at the moment. I'm more inclined to see one die and then help the other die

REALLY QUICKLY

if its required.

ROFL, if you are going to do as I say, hurt Fonz. The word 'insidious' springs to mind every time I see his name lately.

[q21]

I can agree with that, see my comment to tajo re: the Seraphs, though. I'm not rage burning either until the other is dead and their flip proves I need to. Because if the flip is scum and I still have my ZP, then the other Seraph and I make a loyal pair that should be almost unbeatable.

It seems rofl is going down first, somehow I feel that that's wrong. If nuwen were town I'd expect at least one of the scum to be pushing for her lynch over rofl's... and he out of character killing of obvtown walt makes me more nervous than rofl's continuous rage.

[q21]

Now that we're thinking outside the box, perhaps roflcopter is some sort of Survivor/SK-Seraph. Maybe he has points that he can use, too, like the Zeal Points? That Nuwen/copter dichotomy might be a false one, if copter was an evil Seraph with an individualistic win condition. Maybe neither has buddies, because one is town, and the other a Survivor/SK.

While this changes the exact nature of the problem, it doesn't change the problem facing the town.

A town flip on one condemns the other. A not town flip (scum, sk, survivor) pretty much confirms the other.

[q21]

Sorry for my sudden, unexplained absence (never thought I be apologising for not posting for over 24 hour in an MS game...). Real life sprung some shit at me that couldn't wait to be dealt with. Will catch up and comment soon.


*hates real life...

[q21]

now.
OR
Fonz has been playing us all game and that I should wait until tomorrow, hurt him and then finish him. Especially after his reasonless hurt on me.

Reasonless? You basically singlehandedly killed an Ophan. And have played UTR. And no other fucker seems to have even look at you. That spells scum. And right now, if the town doesn't kill scum AND soon, it's fucked. That's why i hurt you.

Yes, I attacked zwet. Did I state my reasons? Yes. Did I have support? Yes. You, yourself, had him picked as scum.

I've made and pushed cases, just because no one's listened doesn't mean I'm playing under the radar.

yays i lived long enough to do some good

hurt: fonz

with a whirling dance of blades and fire

I wasn't expecting you to carry out this hurt....

You and Fonz cannot both be scum.

Fonz & ABR, yes.

Rofl & ABR, yes.

Common denominator... ABR.

He'd have hurt ABR if I'd asked him too. I'm just not seeing rofl as scum, not with ABR or Fonz. ABR & Fonz together is more likely to me.

Assuming 9 HP for anyone who hasn't claimed otherwise, the following people are within Zeal Range:
DGB
Fonz
ABR
Potatajo
Firestarter

Of those ABR & Fonz I might kill, but I'm not sure yet because the rofl/nuwen dichotomy is still out there. As much as I'd like DGB to confirm me its worth a lot less than if I hit a scum, but don't get Ophan confirmed.

Hurt Nuwen

I personally feel she's more likely scum than rofl. I want her at 9 life so that if rofl flips town I can kill her as soon possible (I'll be able to do that much damage once I get a bump in Zeal tomorrow). Unless the scum get a completely broken amount of rage she should still be safe at 9 if she's town.

[q21]

Its not like I'm a vig who can kill every night in a normal game. Its taken me all game to build up to ZP I have and I don't want to waste it.

[q21]

You know what, screw it.

I'm tired of sitting here in indecision. Firestarter's 3601 is right, ABR is the common denominator, I am returning to my previous view of ABR = scum for the reasons I mentioned when I made a case and for the reasons outlined by DGB = FS.

If ABR's started at 9 HP, he's dead.

Sorry if that ends up fucking up the town.

[q21]

EBWOP: DGB + FS

[q21]

No I hurt him with 7, he had already taken 2, total = 9.

[q21]

FUCK! What a fucking waste. My apologies, but seriously fuck.

I wish I'd thought of this before I wasted my ZP or my hurt, but I think I have an idea that could guarantee a win for town. Obviously, I think its genius, but I may be wrong.

It requires the following assumptions to be true:
- At least one of rofl and nuwen is town.
- Neither rofl or nuwen is a massive HP fallen version of myself.

Personally I like the chances of the above, therefore I put forward this idea:

STAGE 1: We leave both of seraphim and myself alive. We go about killing everyone else (still in order of scumminess, of course). That leads to a final three situation with myself and two seraphim, or possibly a town victory before that point even.

STAGE 2: If both rofl an nuwen are town we win here. If only one is town then that one hurts the other. There is no way to control what a scum seraph would do here, but if they do anything other than attack the town seraph I'll know who to join in with, otherwise I will stay out of the fighting at this point.

STAGE 3: If that damage race is won by the loyal seraph than the LOYAL ANGELS WIN. If not then I should have accrued enough ZP from the deaths of Fallen in stage 1 and from the passage of time to win the final damage race with an injured scum seraph.

Final Result: LOYAL ANGELS WIN!

Genius or Idiocy?

I would suggest killing people in this order, anyone who agrees should suggest an order of their own:
The Fonz
Firestarter
Yosarian2
Populartajo
DGB

I'm actually happy to let DGB live through the entire thing because she could easily have framed me as scum a few posts ago and probably won the game for scum. She didn't. She is obvtown for me.

[q21]

Q21, where does rage fit in your plan?
we have to kill yos and rolf.
everybody ignored my case on them and what happened in the last pages regarding xyl?
also, we should massclaim nao

Rage, right. I did think of that, just forgot to include the analysis. Good question.

Scum have three options for their rage in this scenario.

1.
Rage on a townie in the five people who aren't rofl, nuwen or me.
This will only increase the speed at which we get to the final three. I believe the scum Rage accumulation is based mostly on time, like my own Zeal accumulation rate.

2.
Scum Rage on me. It will simply improve their chances in the final damage race between myself and scum seraph. My ZP and HP should go some way toward minimising the effect.

3.
Scum Rage on the town Seraph. Most likely. This allows them to win the Seraph v Seraph damage race more quickly. I still end up with fighting an injured seraph. They can do more damage in-thread, but I will have more ZP by then and I have lots of HP.

Unless the scum have an absolute boatload of RP it shouldn't stop the loyals from winning if we follow my plan.

[q21]

EBWOP:

1.
Rage on a townie in the five people who aren't rofl, nuwen or me.
This will only increase the speed at which we get to the final three. I believe the scum Rage accumulation is based mostly on time, like my own Zeal accumulation rate. So they will actually be hurting themselves if they do this.

Added last sentence.

[q21]

kay, flay didnt call the game
that means either
a) there are only 3 scum left
b) there is a sk
c) flay is a masochist and likes loyal angels to suffer

q21 do you think rolf is town?

The last game didn't even end when it was 1 town v 2 scum. Trust me, I was second last townie to die, I know very well how that game ended.

I don't know which Seraph is town. Maybe both are. So long as at least one is my plan will work.

[q21]

EBWOP:

1.
Rage on a townie in the five people who aren't rofl, nuwen or me.
This will only increase the speed at which we get to the final three. I believe the scum Rage accumulation is based mostly on time, like my own Zeal accumulation rate. So they will actually be hurting themselves if they do this.

Added last sentence.

omg, how could i forget this?
how does your zeak work?
it should work like rage?
we can predict this way how many rage scum have now

[quote="q21]Zeal Points are the Loyal version of Rage Points. I started with 2, I get 2 every Sunday and I get 1 every time a Fallen Angel is cast from heaven. I have used none. [/quote]

Seriously hope the scum don't get 2 RP/week each, but I expect it is based mostly on time. Maybe 1 each/week and 1 for the team/Loyal deaths.

ALSO: DO NOT HURT ROFL! MY PLAN WILL WORK DAMMIT! LEAVE THE SERAPHS ALONE!

[q21]

EBWOP: I fail at quote tags.

[q21]

I doubt one scum can get that much rage, pop. I am open to killing Yosarian first, though.

[q21]

If the scum have/can get enough Rage to win even if we use my plan then there is no hope of winning anyway.

[q21]

I doubt one scum can get that much rage, pop. I am open to killing Yosarian first, though.

explain clearly why your plan works. im having doubts about it since we have no idea how rage works or what is scum capable of doing
also, MASSCLAIM NAO, I have a plan too.

It gets us to a final three situation as quickly as possible. That final three is the two seraphim and myself. If seraphim both are town we win. If both are scum we lose regardless of my plan, I think.

If one is scum and one is town then they hurt each other to death. The scum seraph could theoretically hurt me at this point, but then I'd be sure who to hurt before the town seraph had even died.

If the scum seraph wins that (likely of they use Rage) then I should be able to finish of a single injured scum seraph. What's the point of being the fucking Archangel of War if I can't even do that much.

[q21]

Revised kill order for my plan.
Yosarian2
Firestarter
The Fonz
populartajo
DGB

[q21]

itt tajo desperately tries to manipulate q21's plan and save fonz

we should be killing fonz first, there is no question about that.

It doesn't really matter what the order is, so long as we kill quickly.

Killing scum sooner rather than later only makes the stats of how long it took us to find a second scum look better. Since Zeal and therefore probably Rage is given out on Sunday I doubt we can be quick enough to stop a scum from getting that Rage.

[q21]

I doubt one scum can get that much rage, pop. I am open to killing Yosarian first, though.

Why? Because I questioned your role?

No, because in the end I don't think it really matters which people we kill first in my plan. Its just looks nicer if we get scum sooner. I'm willing to compromise on the order (except DGB, even be happy not to kill her at all) if that's what it takes to get everyone on board.

We can do this.

[q21]

Only problems I see with this plan is:

1. q21 might be scum, in which case town loses.

2. If he is town, one of the two sepherem is scum, and whichever other townie we kill last is scum, then we get to a 2 town 2 scum endgame and scum probably win that one, if they have rage points and q21 spent

1. I'm not. I can say nothing more to allay your fears on that.

2. That's why DGB is non-negotiably last on the list. She could have framed me if she wanted to. Framing me probably wins scum the game regardless of my alignment, there I'm as certain as one can be before flip that she's town.

[q21]

Only problems I see with this plan is:

1. q21 might be scum, in which case town loses.

2. If he is town, one of the two sepherem is scum, and whichever other townie we kill last is scum, then we get to a 2 town 2 scum endgame and scum probably win that one, if they have rage points and q21 spent

1. I'm not. I can say nothing more to allay your fears on that.

2. That's why DGB is non-negotiably last on the list. She could have framed me if she wanted to. Framing me probably wins scum the game regardless of my alignment, there I'm as certain as one can be before flip that she's town.

Ok, #2 makes sense. If you are town, then DGB almost has to be town, I think.

I do think there's some chance scum might be able to disrupt the plan first, though; plus, I'm not sure how you are suggesting the endgame work. If it's you and the two serephem, and one of them is scum, how would you know which one is town? How will they know you're town? Still sounds like a standard 3 man endgame to me; the two town still have to figure out who to lynch, right?

If the two seraphim in the end game agree to hurt only each other I will do nothing until one dies. If the game is still going I should be able to kill the remaining seraph.

Something I didn't say, because it's a non-issue to me, is that my plan presupposes that I am telling the truth about my claim. I am, and I know I am, therefore I didn't think to factor it into the explanation of my plan.

[q21]

Q21's plan is to go down the player list from scummiest to towniest, and leave the Seraphs for last. Right?

Yes.

Lets see.

FS, q21, rofl and DGB all support Fonz's death first. Yos is, presumably against his own lynch. Therefore only pop wants anyone else first, nuwen seems to be abstaining for now and Fonz hasn't had a chance to comment (presumably he doesn't want to die first either, though).

Based on that I think Fonz will end up going down first, regardless of what anyone else thinks. Then FS, Yos or pop. DGB is right about not telegraphing our entire lynch plan to the scum.

[q21]

nuwen seems to be abstaining for now

I'm reaaaaaaally slow to act in any irreparable manner. I'm sure you all have noticed that I've done the least (or close to the least) damage/healing out of all living players.

Its kinda typical of me to say something like that moments before you make up your mind...

[q21]

Every time you simulpost the Flay Huff a Kitten.

[q21]

The lynch list's order doesn't matter, since its entirety will end up inevitably.

The order matters because the sooner we hit scum, the fewer RP they'll unleash from now until end game. It also matters because we'll be able to see connections between scum and other players earlier on.

I agree with DGB.

I'll go along with the plan, but if we do, I'm really thinking we need to get rid of Tajo ASAP, unless there's some good reason not to in the part of the game I haven't read yet.

No there isn't. Right now, though, I think that unified hurting of Fonz is important. In the cooldown period that will follow we can discuss exactly who goes next. Tajo's name will be on the list of possibilities.

Yosarian, your action is charged and ready. Go forth and use it well.

[q21]

Fuck, we need speed, people.

Flay:

Shouldn't Fonz have 4 damage? Firestarter, nuwen x2, Yosarian2?

[q21]

Hurt Fonz

Lets get this show on the road.

[q21]

@ Q21...

The 2 Seraphim are being kept for last, yes?

If so, whats your take on both of them being scum?

The original statement of my plan said that it assumes that at least one of nuwen and rofl is town, it doesn't matter which. If both are scum, it becomes a damage race that, without knowing the exact scum RP accumulation system, I cannot predict. I probably lose though - hence the assumption.

I find it hugely unlikely that the scum have 3 Seraphim. I will commence a personal vendetta against Flay if that is the case.

[q21]

I'm betting the scum used the rage they had built up from last week on me on Sunday morning and the amount they got at noon on me just recently. I would appreciate 3-4 heals to keep me at awesome hit point levels. I suggest that rofl, nuwen, myself and DGB should just carry on hurting and that each of yos, pop and FS heal me once before resuming the hurt.

I'm hoping that at this point the scum have expended their RP for the week. If that's the case then their last gambit has failed. We can win this.

[q21]

hurt populartajo

That's eight. Unless he is himself the scum Arel he was talking about that's 1 HP left. Someone finish him.

[q21]

what i've been trying to explain to tajo for some time now is that there is no f-ing way a scum arel at this point will claim anything except cherub.

yeah?, so dont kill me, im a confirmed TOWN arel.

hardly

Why am I not a confirmed town arel?

A better question is, why

are

you a confirmed town anything? You are not confirmed in anyway. None at all. The way you continue to insist that you are is what makes me most comfortable that you're scum.

[q21]

pop's heal on me was too early (I went and looked it up). Therefore his hurt on rofl stands. For all his screaming about putting himself, yos and FS at L-1 he didn't do it. Contradicting himself.

I think we need to stay the course. I feel that pop's idea is scum motivated. Were he a townie that believed in it he'd have hurt yos, not rofl.

[q21]

pop's actions make sense as both scum and town. Scum flailing to keep himself alive or town who genuinely believes killing him will screw up the game. I think I'm going to suggest that myself and Yos continue to kill pop and everyone else (bar FS who should heal me as he's said he would do) should move on to Yosarian.

That should kill tajo in 2 days and get yosarian very close to being dead in the same time. Just in case pop is being genuine.

Just a suggestion. I'm open to anyone who isn't pop or yos themselves shooting it down if they have a good reason to.

[q21]

hurt populartajo

You never get anywhere in life without a few gambles. Hope this one pays off.

[q21]

I kinda get the feeling its just you and me, firestarter...

[q21]

Hurt Nuwen

GRAH!

[q21]

Still kicking bitches!

[q21]

Dies... finally. DGB finished me.

Well Played Scumz.

[q21]

Glad I killed your ass then....

DGB had me fooled completely. Other than that I time it wrong, took too long to start genuinely trying to help the town.

Yes, viq, I was SK.

[q21]

I was actually hoping you were scum when I killed you...

[q21]

Oh god... I was so annoyed at that time. Looking back, what discouraged me is Tajo and several others jumping on my wagon. Tajo was disappointing for me especially, since I trusted him the whole game.

I thought I was killed by a calculated scum group, the type of people who log in and do things at the exact minute, since the number of rage points seemed to be so exact, which then I don't blame Xyl for posting the number of rage points used like that (I thought Xyl was 100% scum after that "slip").

I was hoping scum cherub so I did 6 points before I left university. You were still alive when I got home. By that point I was committed to killing you, so I did another three since I didn't think anyone other than myself would have more than 12.

[q21]

(5) I'm the only one that was on to Q21 being a SK, in thread, and in QT. A player that could accumulate "zeal points" and have tons of HP? Had I been town, I would have belabored the issue, but since I knew we could kill him, and everyone believed him when he declared me to be town, I was happy to say no more of my SK theory. It also helped immensely that the order of player lynches had us dead last. I can't believe the remaining townies weren't suspicious of him after his plan lead to still more mislynches. It was an excellent gambit by Q21, and I commend him for it.

Thanks.

I had to try something, I wasn't going to win by sitting on my ass. If I'd set the order with one of you on top, or even second - I reckon I'd have won it. You had me completely convinced when you didn't frame me after I Raged ABR.

You have no clue how close I was to Raging you to death ahead of ABR, though. That's the decision that lost me the game.

[q21]

Satan/Michael (I'm still laughing over that claim).

It took me ages to settle on just how to phrase it. It had a few different versions depending on the alignment of people I killed etc. In the end I went with the simplest version which was basically restating my actual role with a few name changes.

Also had to time it just when people were starting to look like they were giving up hope. Offer hopeless people just a little hope and they jump at it.

It was a great setup that was awesomely run. I loved playing it, even though I ended up losing sleep cos I was staying up till 2am just so I could get in a bit of posting while other people were online. I loved it.

I was slightly correct. Q21's plan caught my eye because when I ran it through a number cruncher, there were multiple ways for both town

and

scum to win - anyone with half a calculator could have done the math and seen that it wasn't a town autowin in the slightest. His plan makes more sense coming from an SK; I just thought he was a dim town player.

Trust me, I knew about every situation that would/could happen. I had all the possibilities planned out. That plan was my best chance to win and I wasn't going to mention that like 40% of the time it gave scum the game, even if I was town to start with.

I only mentioned the good bits because I was trying to sell it to the town.

As for DGB, she didn't frame me when she could have, and my mind refused to have that come from a scum.

When q21 received 6 (and then 12) RP in quick succession, there should have been a pause of 'the plan' and a mass healing. Unless every Loyal Angel had actually given up, and didn't care if he was actually Michael or not.

I did actually try to suggest that, FS did it, but I didn't manage to convince anyone else to.

The point is that I realized rolf was town too late.
Also, could we have won if we had masshealed q21 instead of hurting each other?

No, but I could have.

[q21]

Also, could we have won if we had masshealed q21 instead of hurting each other?

It's theoretically possible - Fallen Angels and Satan could have more or less nuked each other, then the last Loyal Angels realize what's going on and kill q21/the last Fallen for the win. It's messy and mostly-undeserved, but until q21 raged on a townie (Firestarter I think) it was

possible

.

Has Xyl come back to the thread yet? I have a theory on how to automate this (minus Metatron's role, of course). Actually, after Cruise Ship I think the next variant of this I'll run will be an Infiltration of Hell by the loyals, perhaps to rescue the Metatron.

I don't see how I didn't kill him. He had 3 damage and I did 5 rage to him. I wanted to end up at least having beaten all the townies.

[q21]

Firestarter was an Arel, and thus had 11 HP, not 8. Also, I

think

you had only 4 RP at that point but my spreadsheeting started to get a little convoluted that late in the game.

Oh, right, missed that.

I had 2 (the sunday) + 3 (ABR, Fonz, Tajo) = 5

Not that it made even a little difference at that point really.

[q21]

...it seemed more like we were playing Survivor than trying to kill scum...

That sums it up quite nicely, actually. For too many townies, it became an individual game of "Survivor." Well put.

For me it was a game of survivor. The fact that the rest of the town was playing like that made my life much easier.

[q21]

If anyone ever gets worked up over ABR, all they need to remember is he's the only player to win day one as a jester without having to deviate from his usual playstyle at all.

Love ya, Albert.

He's an Empking alt?

I've actually won a game as scum, with Empking as a scum partner, where he wasn't lynched.