Mini 758 - Normalcy (GAME OVER)

[Knight of Cydonia]

SPEEDLYNCH GOGOGO!

Vote: Spyrex

[Knight of Cydonia]

By this statement, I can confirm that Lowell is indeed, a Miller-Mason-PGO-Survivor-OneShotVig. All hail.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Don't. Please. The 90s are best left forgotten.

---

The "let's not and say we did" Votecount

Votecount

Emptyger (3) - dejkha, Kieraen, Plum

Juls (2) - Emptyger, Atronach
SpyreX (2) - Knight of Cydonia, Riceballtail
Atronach (2) - Caboose, Juls
Caboose (1) - Benmage
Plum (1) - SpyreX
Benmage (1) - Lowell

Not voting:

<none!>
7 to lynch

[Knight of Cydonia]

I resent that. Mostly because I was talking about the 1490s.
Them was some bad years on the farm.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Depends on your perspective, really.
If you're a Nazi... not so good.
Jewish... even worse.
American? Brilliant. Never had their capital bombed, and they claim all the freaking credit,
when without our RAF there wouldn't have been a Britain to come help. And then we'd have had Turning Point. And that game was crap.

[Knight of Cydonia]

spyrex gets townpoints. KoC does not. Carry on.

Good thing I'm ignoring your useless arbitrary points.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Nah, just making a note of it for now. When I have a more complete take on things I'll share, I promise.

"As soon as KoC does something I can creatively misinterpret as scummy, I'll share and claim I was already suspicious of him on PAGE 2, because Page 2 suspicion is

never

wrong."

[Knight of Cydonia]

I should make it clear my post was meant in jest. Although I concur with SpyreX - the sudden wealth of anti-Lowell feeling certainly makes me wonder if this is an attempt to get a quick wagon going, whilst buddying up to me to create tomorrow's scapegoat.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm very "different" Plum. Get used to it.

:
I should make it clear my post was meant in jest. Although I concur with SpyreX - the sudden wealth of anti-Lowell feeling certainly makes me wonder if this is an attempt to get a quick wagon going, whilst buddying up to me to create tomorrow's scapegoat.

Who specifically do you suspect of this?

Caboose, and to a lesser degree Plum.

Edit: fixed tag

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm a manic depressive insomniac, and I wrote that post after 72 hours of no sleep whatsoever. And you should remember from earlier games we've played together that I am very aggressive as town, SpyreX.

---

The 'MY FEELINGS' votecount

Votecount

Emptyger (3) - dejkha, Kieraen, Plum

Caboose (2) - Benmage, SpyreX

Juls (1) - Atronach
SpyreX (1) - Knight of Cydonia
Benmage (1) - Lowell
Knight of Cydonia (1) - Juls
Lowell (1) - Emptyger

Not voting

:Riceballtail, Caboose
7 to lynch

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm trying to find something else in this game apart from endless semantics between SpyreX, Caboose et al, but I'm having trouble. This is the problem with short days if you're not used to them. I will probably make a decision tomorrow after re-reading all the walls of text being used in this argument.

[Knight of Cydonia]

unvote; Vote SpyreX

for claim.

[Knight of Cydonia]

You're already voting for me. Nice try sneaky boy.

Ah. A worthy opponent.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm still worried about Caboose, but I'm still happy with a SpyreX lynch at this point.
And Porkens, this "speed-game" fails. My Mini Normal, which has had month-long deadlines and started just before yours, is already at NIGHT 2. That's what I call speed-lynching.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I've seen a lot of pro-town players ask to be lynched, but more often than not they come over as rushed, angry, and they don't give a wall of text to explain why they should be lynched. That's why I'm not going to unvote SpyreX. I would have found it more believable if he had just gone "OMG WTF U All Suck I'mma self vote so you lose fuckers".

[Knight of Cydonia]

I haven't unvoted.
What on earth are you talking about.

[Knight of Cydonia]

FoS: Caboose

because... why? Why reveal that now? Now the scum know they have 1 less person to pick from when hunting power roles. Plus, claiming a one-shot power is pointless, because we have no way to verify it - you can't exactly do it again and hope for a watcher/tracker. Pointless, unverifyable claim For The Lose.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Oh, dear...

This throwing around of suspicions just because of SpyreX's flip is stupid, though

Did ANYONE attack you today based on SpyreX's flip? No. Why bring it up? Pre-emptive defence = scummy.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Call it a stretch if you want, but I'm actually defending myself from what Atronach said in this quote.
When he said something about people "jumping on me" I know very well that it's because of the SpyreX flip yesterday. Everyone knows good and well that if SpyreX flipped scum yesterday, no one would give my wagon a second look.

Wowzer. Uhm... here. Gold medal for long jump. It's yours.

[Knight of Cydonia]

For now, I will believe Caboose, as we have no reason to discredit the claim.

That said,

FoS

KoC for trying to discredit it so quickly.

Yeah I too feel no reason to distrust what Caboose said about himself and plum.

That being said

vote KoC

.

Way to jump on the wagon. I express natural worry about a role-claim and "clearing" of someone in the first post of the day, by someone who admits he only claimed so early to pre-empt any (again, natural) suspicion of someone who was arguably one of hte scummiest players of Day 1 (himself), and suddenly it makes me scummy. Yay craplogic.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Benmage, stop lying. The post I quoted when I made that post, which you conveniently cut out, was of YOU voting for me. Now you jump on the Lowell wagon to put it at L-1?
This Lowell wagon is FAR too fast for it to be anything but scum-driven. I sure as hell won't hammer it, and if anyone town has any sense, neither will they.

Vote: Benmage

for out-and-out lying, and jumping on a bandwagon with a nearly non-existent, completely parroted reasoning.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Both claims irk me, Lowell's slightly less. I'd prefer a Caboose lynch to anyone else right now, so I will

unvote; Vote Caboose

[Knight of Cydonia]

I don't believe the claim, Caboose. I thought I made that clear. It's too quick, and it's pointless to out town players. As a tracker, I only out townies in order to prevent a mislynch at MyLo or LyLo. Otherwise, it's not worth it.
The whole thing stinks of a desperate attempt to move away a perfectly valid lynch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Kieraen - Caboose's flipping as scum has very littlle to do with Lowell's flip.
Just because Caboose is scum who claimed a 1-shot, doesn't mean Lowell's claim is "bullshit".

[Knight of Cydonia]

Except Lowell's claim doesn't back him up, IIRC, it just says "he wouldn't be surprised" because of his one-shot role. You're making an awfully big leap of faith in saying "Caboose is mafia, he claimed a one-shot, Lowell claimed a one-shot, therefore he is mafia", not least in the fact that you're already saying "mafia Caboose" when we have no idea whatsoever about his alignment.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Using a meta-defence of "not being the best player in the world"?
WIFOMing about "mafia wouldn't

really

push for a lynch of 1-shot power roles, would they?
A Vanilla Townie claim?
I've heard enough.

unvote; Vote Kieraen

---

The "Are there too many votecounts on this page?" Votecount

Kieraen (4) - Plum, Riceballtail, dejkha, Knight of Cydonia

Riceballtail (3) - Lowell, Kieraen, Benmage

Lowell (1) - Atronach
Benmage (1) - Caboose
Dejkha (1) - EmpTyger

Not Voting (0):

6 to lynch

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm not seeing an RBT lynch as optimal at this point.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well... that was fun. Dejkha, Atronach and Kieraen for scum team?

[Knight of Cydonia]

OMGUS, much?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well, I refuse to hammer RBT, because I do not like the wagon, or 2 of the people on it: Kieraen and Atronoch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I don't want a no-lynch, and FoS on those who imply that I do. I am stating clearly who I want lynched.

[Knight of Cydonia]

A no-lynch is preferable in my eyes to voting for someone I consider to be town. 1 less dead townie = possibly one more day/night cycle to get it right. The fact that Kieraen is attacking me for this worries me. Would you rather I had hammered someone I do not suspect particularly? Not to mention the fact the wagon was being driven by two of the scummier players in this game, IMHO? (You and Benmage)

[Knight of Cydonia]

Why is it good townie play to get yourself lynched?
What are these "town battles" that we're helping the town to lose?
And why am I not surprised that you've picked 5 suspects? Typical scum play, to be able to jump on wagons without care, and point back at that post and say "well, I said I suspected X in this post!"

[Knight of Cydonia]

Its pro townie-ness, is questionable, and rare. And it certainly wasn't the case yesterday.

Repeating this doesn't make it true. WHY?

It would have been good townie play for me to have been lynched yesterday.

So... you are scum?

Town has to try again to possiley lynch myself and/or RBT.

Why so black and white?

Its can be good town play, as yesterday I was a suspect. If I was lynched and you say my affiliation (townie by the way but never mind), then thats one less in the pool of suspects.

You know what else it does? It makes it easier for scum to find any remaining power roles that haven't claimed. Although, going on yesterday's gamut, I doubt there ARE any who haven't claimed. Vanilla Townie's reason for existence is to run interference plays to make it harder for scum to find pro-town power roles, and to make it easier for those pro-town power roles to do their job.

5 at the minute. These are the players I at least want a reread through, and some consideration over.

So... you are admitting you have 5 suspects. 5 suspects on Day 2, I could understand. 5 suspects at this point... it's just typical scattergun scum tactics.

Vote: Kieraen

If it was good town play for you to have been lynched yesterday... must still be good town play today. Certainly, nothing you've said is convincing me otherwise.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm sorry, but what? Because I wanted you lynched over someone I think is town, we automatically become scumbuddies? No-lynch was, at that point, better than a mislynch - assuming this is a typical mini setup, we have 3 scum. There are 9 of us left. If we'd lynched RBT, we'd be at 5 town, 3 scum. If we'd then lynched the wrong person today, the scum would have made their nightkill, and it'd be 3 scum, 3 town. So your logic is entirely wrong, Kieraen, because if I had hammered the IMO townie RBT, we'd be at Lynch or Lose now - so if I was scum, it'd have made MORE sense for me to have mis-hammered RBT and then said "A mis-lynch is better than no lynch.
Because I didn't hammer RBT, we're not at LyLo. That's a good thing.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I note, Kieraen, that you tactfully choose to ignore the fact that the no-lynch your entire suspicion of me is based on has actually given us another day to scum-hunt, instead of being stuck in LyLo today.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Doesn't exactly prove he's town, though, does it? We still have 3 scum, so he may well just not have submitted the kill.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Not doing anything last night when there are still (presumably, if this is a typical Mini setup) 3 scum =/= you being town. I have opened my mind to the possibility I could be wrong - but as long as you vote me for the nolynch that has given us an extra day to scum-hunt, in a massive pile of OMGUS, I will keep my vote on you, for attempting to misrep my unwillingness to lynch RBT as a deliberate move to keep a supposed scumbuddy alive, and a refusal to admit that

you're

wrong.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I can believe a Lowell-Kieraen fake-clear... but unless they were really desperate, I'm finding it hard to explain why Lowell would step in unless Kieraen was a particularly vital scum role. Lowell doesn't exactly strike me as logical though, so... Iunno.

[Knight of Cydonia]

How do I seem "awfully sure" EmpTyger? I'm saying he might not have submitted the kill. That's all.

[Knight of Cydonia]

My favourite is for KoC and RBT to be on one scum team, as he seems to be defending her.

I'm not defending RBT - I think she's town, because she's reminding me of her town meta - I'm defending against your stupid attack because I chose a no-lynch that meant we aren't into LyLo today.

But I find d) unlikely

d) Lowell scum is defending Kieraen Scum.


Why do you automatically pick the least likely? @KoC

Did I? I said I could believe it. I never said it was definitely what was going on. But please, feel free to misrep me more.

a) I'm none vital scum and didn't go anywhere last night

This is what I find more likely.

RBT was already at L-1, I didn't expect a no lynch. I was L-2. I couldn't change the tide, and was offline during the no lynch. You and KoC on the other hand WERE online, and COULD do something about it.

major scummy points.

Why didn't you vote yesterday Emptiger?

What is your problem with people who didn't vote for RBT because you said so? Also - you said earlier you found EmpTyger scummier because he didn't vote at all - yet you're voting me. Makes no sense.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I don't like your arguments your making.

(1)

I find Emptiger more indecisive at the minute

(2)

, and see him asking questions of all the village.

(3)

You are tunnelling

(4)

, and I get the sincere feeling that you are tunnelling on a townie, in the role of a scummer. I think you didn't vote RBT yesterday as she is your scum buddy.

(5)

(1) Why not? You keep saying this, but you've yet to provide any counter-argument to properly defend yourself.

(2) So indecision, uhming and aahing, and waiting to see which wagon comes up fastest is town play now?

(3) Uhm... not really. 5 players =/= the whole village.

(4) I hate to bring meta into this, but as almost anyone in this game can tell you, my townie meta is to find someone I think is scum - in this case, you - and attack them pretty heavily. Some scum like to call that tunnelling to misrep me for an easy lynch.

(5) Again, repeating this =/= making it true. All you've done today is say:
- ZOMG KoC allowed no-lynch, must die! (Whilst carefully ignoring Emptyger, who you supposedly found MORE scummy for not voting at all; and carefully ignoring the fact that in this case, no-lynch was almost certainly better than lynching RBT, because if, as I fully expect, RBT flipped town, we'd be in LyLo today)
- ZOMG KoC didn't vote for someone he thinks is town, must die! (Whilst utterly failing to give any concrete evidence of a supposed scum-link between myself and RBT, other than I think she's town because, and again I hate to use it, but she does seem to be following her town meta here).

Come back when you can make a case that isn't utterly groundless and in several places a blatant misrep or falsification of the facts, based on your pre-assumption that RBT ABSOLUTELY MUST BE SCUM.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Just because no-one else is around, that doesn't stop you from responding to my accusations. Stop playing for time and hoping a scumbuddy will drop in and save you.

[Knight of Cydonia]

EmpTyger - I'm not sure of it, but given that this is a Mini Normal, 3 mafia is generally the norm. Until we find anything out to the contrary, I'm basing my thoughts on a 3-scum assumption.

[Knight of Cydonia]

If you notice Dejkha and KoC leave their votes on Kierean both ensuring RBT’s survival.

If we were scum, we'd have voted RBT, who you (and I) believe to be town, said today "better than no lynch, right?", and we'd be in LyLo today. Not lynching someone you believe to be town = town move. Not voting someone to lynch them and put the town into LyLo today = town move. So why do all the cases against me seem to based on me doing something which was inherently a townie action, by giving us an extra day of scumhunting?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Sorry, it's just you and Kieraen are singing from such a

completely freaking identical in every other aspect

songbook it's easy to get you mixed up.
It feels like a drive on a quick-wagon for not hammering RBT was supposed to be led by Kieraen, but has failed and now suddenly his scum-buddies are lining up to try and re-start it rolling.

---

The "Arkansas can eat poison today." Votecount

Kieraen (3) - Knight of Cydonia, dejkha, Riceballtail

Knight of Cydonia (1) - Kieraen
Riceballtail (1) - Lowell

Not Voting (4):

EmpTyger, Atronoch, Caboose, Benmage

5 to lynch

[Knight of Cydonia]

Saying "A lynch is better than no lynch" is fine, but would you honestly have let it go if I said "I think RBT is town, but I'll hammer anyway!" and she'd flipped according to her claim, as I expect her to? No. I'm being portrayed in a lose-lose way here - for sticking with my belief that RBT is town, I'm scummy for not lynching someone. If I'd lynched RBT and she'd flipped town as I expect her to if she is ever lynched, I'd be being attacked for hammering someone I had stated I thought was town.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Its pretty well established from the players I have played alongside that a No lynch is a pretty anti town weapon and doesn't help town at all.

How many times do I have to tell you - WE'D BE IN LYLO TODAY IF WE'D LYNCHED RBT.

To answer your other question:
I know we'd be in LyLo because I'm a Jack-Of-All-Trades: I have to choose between two out of 1 investigation(Cop), 1 protection(Doctor), 1 vig kill(Vigilante), and 1 hide(as a Hider) with another player. I investigated RBT, because I have to admit she worried me earlier on as well, and she came up town.
Now before anyone even considers asking - I have no intention of using my vigilante shot instead of protecting someone. The only reason I didn't use my doctor last night is because I didn't want to waste my last ability trying to out-WIFOM the scum as to who they'd kill.

I had

hoped

to avoid outing myself, because this is a pretty useful role for us against the scum, and I wanted to ensure that I wasn't taken out of the equation before I could be of use. As it... we're back to playing a big ol' game of WIFOM tonight now, unless we can bring a scummer down. And right now Kieraen, you're doing nothing to prove to me that you aren't that scum we need today.

[Knight of Cydonia]

How about a re-read, then a vote? *sigh* The scum in this game are so achingly obvious it really hurts me. "Oh look, here's a role that could make life harder for us! VOTE NAOW!" Lets see if the re-read ever happens, and if it makes any attempt whatsoever at a balanced conclusion rather than just "KOC MUST DIE"

[Knight of Cydonia]

So everyone except Caboose and RBT are probably scum with me.
I think we'll put that down as a no to "a balanced conclusion", then.

---

The "KoC's game is already over, guys..." Votecount

Kieraen (3) - Knight of Cydonia, dejkha, Riceballtail

Knight of Cydonia (1) - EmpTyger
Riceballtail (1) - Lowell
EmpTyger (1) - Kieraen

Not Voting (3):

Atronoch, Caboose, Benmage

5 to lynch

[Knight of Cydonia]

The scum in this game are so achingly obvious it really hurts me. "

Oh yeah..whose your 3 candidates?

Kieraen, who is bussing EmpTyger, who is bussing lurker-scum Atronach.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Atronach has been sitting in the background all day, getting away with posting little new content, and doing nothing but stirring arguments up, then watching them go on before jumping back in.
His last post also worried me, because he picked out 3 people doing

exactly

what he's done, and said they should either give us more content, or be lynched, because, in his words "More than likely, we turn up scum amongst them". More than likely isn't really good enough justification for a lurker purge, especially considering that I know one of his 3 "lynch candidates" is innocent.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Oh, what a surprise, I have an innocent on someone, therefore I want to prevent them from being wrongly lynched. I'd hardly say I'm desperate, I'm just trying to make a point which is being ignored.
The current argument from people like Lowell, Kieraen and EmpTyger seems to be that I should have hammered RBT despite having an innocent result on her, because "mis-lynch is better than no-lynch". Mis-lynch, as I have repeatedly stated, was worse that no-lynch yesterday, because if we'd lynched RBT, we'd be in LyLo today.
Atronach - how are you "organising the town" today? You've made a comment about how "this day shouldn't become a Kieraen-KoC fight", and promised some analysis. That's it.

[Knight of Cydonia]

That's L-1, I believe.
I suggest we at least give Kieraen a chance to say something before anyone drops the hammer - if, indeed, anyone is willing to.

[Knight of Cydonia]

unvote

, but only because I don't want the scum to come in, speed hammer himself and stop any further discussion. Saying that, we do only have 4 days though, guys.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Refuses to hammer because Kierean and Atron are on it..not even stating he thinks RBT is innoncent..scummy!

Well, I refuse to hammer RBT,

because I do not like the wagon

, or 2 of the people on it: Kieraen and Atronoch.

Lies.

Maybe lylo would be a good place to be.

LyLo is NEVER a good place for a town to be. So are you scum then?

Totally found you scummy...this Claim throws me what does hider even do? Why won’t you use vig. ability?

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Hider

I won't use the vig power because in the unlikely event I am wrong about the scum, it could put us into LyLo, or worse, lose the game outright for us.

[Knight of Cydonia]

RBT is still the one who's claim I don't accept. Claiming one-shot doc in a game full of one-shots does nothing to impress me, and the fact that we couldn't find a hammer even when we KNEW we were facing no lynch is upsetting.

KoC is implicated in this, I think, and is likely to be RBTs buddy if he turns up scum. That he not only (a) didn't vote for RBT at deadline, but also (b) tried to frame this action as pro-town (it obviously isn't) to sway others not on the RBT bandwagon from hammering, looks bad. As much as he says otherwise, KoC willingly letting a deadline go (at the risk of killing what essentially, even if wrong, would only be a vanilla role!) is scummy.

Short of lynching me, what would get you to believe my claim?
And I demand an answer to this. Not a "OMG THAT'S A SCUMMY QUESTION", I want an honest answer. Even if it's "Nothing".

[Knight of Cydonia]

...What. The. Shit.
Basing your attack on me off of role speculation that the mafia "usually have a roleblocker"? Seriously? That got your vote?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well, I wasn't expecting a complete volte-face on his part, certainly.
Apparently my refusal to vig on the grounds that it could completely fuck us over isn't good enough. He suddenly "sees" this connection between me and RBT that somehow makes us both scum (COurtesy of Benmage, much?)

Vote: Kieraen

because frankly, you've done nothing there that convinces me you're anything but scum trying to use any potential wagon to get out of being lynched.

---

The Votecount

Kieraen (3) - dejkha, Atronoch, Knight of Cydonia
Knight of Cydonia (3) - EmpTyger, Benmage, Kieraen

Riceballtail (1) - Lowell
Benmage (1) - Riceballtail

Not Voting (1):

Caboose

5 to lynch

[Knight of Cydonia]

You see, this is what makes me uncomfortable. There should always be something other than a lynch that'd convince you of someone's innocence, and I find it scummy that your attitude seems to be "I'll only believe it if we lynch her and she flips it."

[Knight of Cydonia]

You could have proven yourself innocent - or at least convinced me there were others worth lynching more than you right now. Lowell admits that there is no way to change his mind about RBT, and that worries me, because I know RBT is innocent, and I'd rather not lynch her to prove it.

[Knight of Cydonia]

You could. But you won't.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Kieraen - it's worse to go to deadline with no-lynch than a townie lynch, according to you. So, if it comes to it, do you intend to hammer yourself? Hmmm? Or is it different because it's you, and not RBT?

[Knight of Cydonia]

It's bad form in newbie games, generally considered against the rules as an IC in a newbie game, and looked down on in all games.
Right now we have 9 alive. Taking typical normal setup as a starting point, we probably have 3 scum.

Kieraen as scum:
6 town/2 scum @ end of day.
5 town/2 scum @ start of next day, unless I block the nightkill.

Kieraen as town:
5 town/3 scum @ end of day
4 town/3 scum @ start of next day, unless I block nightkill.

Kieraen, if you are town, for the love of God, don't self-hammer, or we'll be relying on my questionable ability to outguess scum to stop us from going into LyLo tomorrow.
If you're scum, which I find more likely, by all means self-hammer.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Before you argue the toss on that point, yesterday when I advocated was a different day, and woulnd't have put us in Lylo.

Yes it would. As I've been saying all day. YES IT WOULD.

Alright, someone wake up and hammer him now, since he won't. Call his WIFOM.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Caboose is getting modkilled at the end of the day, IIRC, so we'll know if he really was a cop tomorrow.

[Knight of Cydonia]

We have... 3 hours and 40 minutes. Kieraen, this feels like shameless bargaining on your part to avoid this dreaded no-lynch. Again - I will not be voting for RBT today, as I know she is pro-town, just as I am, just as you aren't, Kieraen.

[Knight of Cydonia]

That was so much fun it hurt. Despite my deliberate tying myself to RBT, town didn't fall for it... however, you did fall for the less overt links cultivated with Lowell. Excellent.