Mini 758 - Normalcy (GAME OVER)

[dejkha]

When you voted Spyre, you loudly argued against him. Whereas with Lowell, you just quietly slipped a vote on and ignored him otherwise. And Spyre we know now is innocent, and Lowell is the most suspicious player in the game by far.

With Lowell, he was hardly saying anything, and that coupled with him not keeping his promise makes it hard for me to say anything other than those two things when it came to him. All he did was making baseless statements for the most part. When Spyre made that large post right before he was lynch, I had the feeling he was town because if he wasn't he probably wouldn't have wasted his time. But I know that wouldn't, and shoudn't, matter to others and rightfully so.

You have only attacked players after someone else sticks out their neck to do so. You’re not trying to find mafia. You’re lurking, lying low, following others, blending in with the herd.

When it came to Kieraen, I'm fairly certain I covered other things aside from what Plum posted, so I added to the case, which I'd like to think is helpful. And supporting a case with more evidence is a good way to find mafia, I'd say.

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The "Superman 2 was the best one." Votecount

Kieraen (4) - Plum, Riceballtail, dejkha, Knight of Cydonia
Riceballtail (4) - Lowell, Kieraen, Benmage, Caboose

Not Voting (2):

EmpTyger, Atronoch

6 to lynch

[Benmage]

Sigh, how can you possibly put so much emphasis on the term ‘generally town’? How you are still berating this issue is beyond me. But let’s hold hands and walk through this for the umpteenth time.

Dunt Dunt Dunt Post 87: The cause of your controversy.

spyrex gets townpoints. KoC does not. Carry on.

This stuff is always lame in my opinion…but is from my experience generally a townies move.

As you can see all I state was the move from my experience has been generally a townies move. The issue is that at this point there was relatively zero information on or from Lowell. From my past experience those who start giving off points are much more active and post long thoughtful discussions (similar to spryex, but not to his level). This was promised by Lowell, but has been all too obvious untrue. (Hence a radical change from my experience)

Cont.

Post 160: This post illustrates a growing negative-ness towards Lowell’s play style.

vote riceball

almost entirely for 154. I hate posts like that.

what..the hell was wrong with post 154??

Lowell's posting is so odd.

Holy crap I said the word ‘odd’ she must be from mars?? Hmmm get hung up that next please.

Sorry, cont.

I noted in post 139. She hammered. Probably a different effect in this 10 day deadline game, but hammers are always questionable from my experience. (Oh crap…my experience… hammers questionable!!! Everyone next to hammer will certainly be under the most extreme scrutiny by me according to Emptyger’s logic)

Post 172: My Agreed Upon wagon move and vote on Lowell.

That being said here is a wagon move:

Vote Lowell

Her posts are absolutely useless. Nothing of real substance. One to two lines.

Plus the move in post 157 agreeing with Caboose and than voting for Rice in post 154..while rice was also agreeing with caboose and thus questioning KoC..whom i still have my suspicions...so all in all quite happy with seeing Lowell eliminated today.

I bolded the part you seem continuously ignore. If you were unsatisfied with that explanation that I am sorry, but that is it… Once more, I am still for a Lowell lynch and think that would be best. I voted for a wagon, and didn’t try to hide it, Because I feel Lowell is scum, so wagon or not I would vote for him.

Post 182: Your post and question.

Benmage:

<snip>

spyrex gets townpoints. KoC does not. Carry on.

This stuff is always lame in my opinion…but is from my experience generally a townies move.
<snip>

<snip>

Vote Lowell

Her posts are absolutely useless. Nothing of real substance. One to two lines.
<snip>

What took you from “generally townie” to voteworthy?

Generally townie to voteworthy. Let me go real slow, because it is already in what you quoted. But if you want an explanation for a switch (even though I feel there was no original position, you can still look at when a position evolves and call it a switch)

, 1.Useless posts. 2. Northing of substance. 3. Posts are too brief. 4. and probably most important her inconsistencies aforementioned and bolded from my post in 172.

How you are still dwelling on this is sadly comical.

if I should perhaps maybe somehow accidentally not be around tomorrow

Omg, this would be welcomed and all too convenient. Unfortunately I doubt you’ll be voting to kill yourself tonight.

For the third time- I *did* read it, and I did see it! Which is why I asked you about it! Because that’s *not* what you said: what you actually said was that your initial “Lowell is protown” meant “zilch”. Which is very different from “accurate at the time”.

Well read it again. Because all the information is there. And it still meant ‘zilch’ because it stemmed from the RVS, and was placed without substantial information. Once more information procured a proper stance was made.

In conclusion I’m done answering Emptyger. Whether you get it at this point or not I don’t care. (might think better to ignore anything posed from him in the future)

[EmpTyger]

Benmage:
You've said
1) Lowell is protown (because of reason A) [87]
2) Lowell is antitown (because of reason A) [172]
3) Lowell is antitown (because of reason B) [172]

You keep on repeating that (3) is a perfectly valid conclusion and how can I be so blind to not see it.

But I'm not and have never disputed that.

What I have had a problem with is that you reach the opposite conclusions of (1) and (2) based on the same basis. And when I asked you why, you first gave one explanation (that "generally protown" was meaningless), then another (that (1) was accurate at the time). While all the while trying to cover it up with an unrelated (3).

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dejkha:

<snip>
With Lowell, he was hardly saying anything, and that coupled with him not keeping his promise makes it hard for me to say anything other than those two things when it came to him. All he did was making baseless statements for the most part.

So your defense for not attacking a suspicious player is that they weren't making it easy for you? Because mafia are trying to make it easy for you to attack them?

When Spyre made that large post right before he was lynch, I had the feeling he was town because if he wasn't he probably wouldn't have wasted his time. But I know that wouldn't, and shoudn't, matter to others and rightfully so.
<snip>

Wait, so you thought Spyre was innocent and just stayed quiet as he approached lynch?

[dejkha]

So your defense for not attacking a suspicious player is that they weren't making it easy for you? Because mafia are trying to make it easy for you to attack them?

No my defense is that I attack him as much as I come for what little he was doing.

Wait, so you thought Spyre was innocent and just stayed quiet as he approached lynch?

Yes. But if I actually thought me saying "I think Spyre's town" would change anyones mind then I would've said something. There's no reason it should've made anyone think twice.

[dejkha]

EBWOP: as much as I

can

...

[Atronach]

No claim from RBT, I'm hammering.

Vote: RBT

[EmpTyger]

ugh

Atronach:
Even if there wasn't still time for his lynch to be viable, there was time for you to not avoid commenting on dejkha, so that maybe he wouldn't keep getting away with it.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well... that was fun. Dejkha, Atronach and Kieraen for scum team?

[Kieraen]

I think Dejkha is looking really scummy. Theres no excuse on day two turning around and saying 'I thought SPYREX was innocent' after saying nothing of the sort on day one.

KoC is tunnelling and not looking at possible innocence of his suspects. I don't trust him.

[Knight of Cydonia]

OMGUS, much?

[dejkha]

I think Dejkha is looking really scummy. Theres no excuse on day two turning around and saying 'I thought SPYREX was innocent' after saying nothing of the sort on day one.

I wasn't the one that brought up Spyre flipping town and I wouldn't have brought it up, since I didn't need to, if he didn't. And saying I'm scummy for saying something like that is silly. If my opinion on who I think is town will persuade you not to vote for that person, then tell me now so I know my opinion is the largest influence in this game. But I'm guessing it's not, so it's stupid to question.

Bottom line, that's horrible reason and a nice way use the same reasoning as others.

[Kieraen]

No because town isn't just looking for mafia. Its looking for SK's and townies as well.

If you see something that is townie in SPYREX's play, or a post that has been misrepresented, it may (or may not) influence the decision to vote for him.

I also didn't vote SPYREX, and had lost track of this game. On reading back SPYREX seems more townie, however I'm not using this to gain 'towniepoints'.

[dejkha]

No because town isn't just looking for mafia. Its looking for SK's and townies as well.

Town is looking for townies? No, I don't think so. And I'm pretty sure we don't know if theres a SK.

If you see something that is townie in SPYREX's play, or a post that has been misrepresented, it may (or may not) influence the decision to vote for him.

The only thing that made me think he was town was how he made that last large post and I doubt he would've wasted his time with it if he were scum. That shouldn't be a deciding factor anyway, so it doesn't matter.

[Lowell]

Is that actually a hammer or are we still a vote short?

Someone do us a favor and end this.

[Riceballtail]

CLAIM:One-Shot Doc

as though it will really help much. Used it on Emp last night.

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The "Last votecount for 200 miles" Votecount

Riceballtail (5) - Lowell, Kieraen, Benmage, Caboose, Atronoch

Kieraen (4) - Plum, Riceballtail, dejkha, Knight of Cydonia

Not Voting (1):

EmpTyger

6 to lynch

[Porkens]

I will be away for the next two or three hours. Regardless of the fact that I won't be around to lock the thread at 17:30, if a lynch is not reached within 1 hour and 34 minutes of this post, the day will result in a no-lynch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well, I refuse to hammer RBT, because I do not like the wagon, or 2 of the people on it: Kieraen and Atronoch.

[Lowell]

The doc claim doesn't impress me. It is absolutely what scum would claim. KoC, it's scummy to let this go without a lynch.

[Benmage]

Benmage:
You've said
1) Lowell is protown (because of reason A) [87]
2) Lowell is antitown (because of reason A) [172]
3) Lowell is antitown (because of reason B) [172]

You keep on repeating that (3) is a perfectly valid conclusion and how can I be so blind to not see it.

But I'm not and have never disputed that.

What I have had a problem with is that you reach the opposite conclusions of (1) and (2) based on the same basis. And when I asked you why, you first gave one explanation (that "generally protown" was meaningless), then another (that (1) was accurate at the time). While all the while trying to cover it up with an unrelated (3).

Going against what I said .

You’re leaving out my Post 160, which I would understand, but since you take post 87 so seriously you can't deny that my suspicion would build from post 160(lessening the jump in my position you seem to be trying to create). There are two aspects to my post 172, and you've only seemed to recognize one. So yes, antitown because of A(post 172) and B(post 172) But also C(post 160).

I still refute post 87 as a declaration of Lowell being town, but you obviously stuck on that interpretation. Anyways back to the conclusive answers...yeah I still feel the 'generally town move' statement was meaningless because it was so early.(accept it or not, that's how i feel) As for 'accurate at the time' that can still be accepted as it was so early in the game and there was no concrete information yet. The statement was accurate but just because it was accurate doesn't mean it wasn't open to change.

Trying to cover up with unrelated 3...This is simply a false statement. I did nothing but try to answer your question. Your lack of acceptance is simply frustrating. Point 3 was simply trying to answer your question of how Igot to the conclusion of Lowell's scumminess which in my opinion had been answered initially (post 172's dual points) and than given above and beyond explanation, so surely you can see my frustration.

Here are Both points of post 172, you only mention the first in you initial question…and I can only assume by your continual action that you are still ignoring the second point.

Her posts are absolutely useless. Nothing of real substance. One to two lines.

Plus the move in post 157 agreeing with Caboose and than voting for Rice in post 154..while rice was also agreeing with caboose and thus questioning KoC..whom i still have my suspicions...so all in all quite happy with seeing Lowell eliminated today.

[Benmage]

I honestly don't know what to say about the claim.. the fact that it was already used has me skeptical. Plus why not an explanation as to protecting Emp on D1, what made you think he was absolutely important to the town? A one-shot protection seems pretty powerful, and seems like you wasted it. (I guess I am actually more suspicious and even more in favor of a lynch) Shall he turn out to be scum we will have some strong insight on other scum possibilities.

There's still 4 others able to hammer with KoC's refusal...i guess by KoC's move he is also declaring that he would prefer to see a no lynch today. While I am sometimes somewhat favorable of a no lynch occasionally.(better to only have one innocent killed at night than one during the day and one at night) PlusI feel it gives our cop role more nights to investigate. Unfortunately I have become less favorable of that position in this game where it appears many actions are simply 'one-shot' moves and we may not have more investigators.

So in a sense this no lynch move by KoC is in actuality allowing scum a free night.

[Plum]

On the off chance we haven't hit deadline:

Unvote; Vote: RBT

. Not especially inclined to believe the claim, and my number 2 suspect, and as opposed to no-Lynch, RBT lynch looks good.

There's still 4 others able to hammer with KoC's refusal...i guess by KoC's move he is also declaring that he would prefer to see a no lynch today. While I am sometimes somewhat favorable of a no lynch occasionally.(better to only have one innocent killed at night than one during the day and one at night) PlusI feel it gives our cop role more nights to investigate. Unfortunately I have become less favorable of that position in this game where it appears many actions are simply 'one-shot' moves and we may not have more investigators.

So in a sense this no lynch move by KoC is in actuality allowing scum a free night.

We have no reason to believe we have a regular Cop role, and actually have multiple reasons to believe it's not the case. The no-Lynch, unfortunately, does give the scum a free shot, and KoC was absolutely in the wrong in doing what he did, and would be in almost all cases (unless, for example, he'd expressed strong belief that RBT was town. All we got from him was

I'm not seeing an RBT lynch as optimal at this point.

Yeah, well, for allowing a no-Lynch to occur on basis of what KoC indicated doesn't cut it for me.

HOS: Knight of Cydonia

Not, unfortunately, that it'll make any difference (today, anyway).

[Knight of Cydonia]

I don't want a no-lynch, and FoS on those who imply that I do. I am stating clearly who I want lynched.

[Plum]

I don't want a no-lynch, and FoS on those who imply that I do. I am stating clearly who I want lynched.

You had two options:

1) Ensure a no-Lynch is effected by not voting RBT

2) Voting RBT for the Lynch.

You chose option 1, the anti-Town, scummy-seeming choice, given the relative lack of strength of your reasons for doing so. Perhaps you don't want a no-Lynch, technically. If you don't like that phrasing, I can deal, because the statement that you actively prefered a no-lynch over an RBT Lynch is clearly true. And, as I argued, scummy. It doesn't matter so much who you want lynched (hey, I'd prefer a Kieraen lynch over one on RBT, too), but that you chose a no-lynch over an RBT lynch despite the fact that your reasons for doing so weren't strong.

[Atronach]

Sorry, I thought mine was the last vote. I didn't realize we needed another.

Even if there wasn't still time for his lynch to be viable, there was time for you to not avoid commenting on dejkha, so that maybe he wouldn't keep getting away with it.

I have had limited access time until recently. I didn't have time for analysis posts, especially so close to deadline on someone who is not even close to being a leading lynch. Your late case against dejkha and refusal to vote is why we are probably looking at a no lynch.

[Porkens]

The "HOW DO WE SHOT LYNCH?!" Votecount

Riceballtail (5) - Lowell, Kieraen, Benmage, Caboose, Atronoch

Kieraen (4) - Plum, Riceballtail, dejkha, Knight of Cydonia

Not Voting (1):

EmpTyger

6 to lynch

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The townsfolk quibbled and quabbled, but in the end it was decided that the best chance for the town to return to normality was to leave the noose empty.

Day 2 has resulted in a No-Lynch.

It is now Night 2

• All those who have the ability to speak during the night may now do so.
• Any and all night actions must be submitted via PM before the night deadline.
• Night 2 will end in 72 hours, on
  Sunday, April 5th, at 21:30