Mini 758 - Normalcy (GAME OVER)

[Caboose]

Oh, and,

Vote: RBT

---

The "Second day of class in Arkansas!" Votecount

Kieraen (4) - Plum, Riceballtail, dejkha, Knight of Cydonia
Riceballtail (4) - Lowell, Kieraen, Benmage, Caboose

Lowell (1) - Atronach
Dejkha (1) - EmpTyger

Not Voting (0):

6 to lynch

[Plum]

The VT claim at L-3 hurts Kieraen's case more than it helps.

What the
Godfather possibility slightly increased.

You didn't find the premature VT claim at least questionable?

[Riceballtail]

I think Plum's case is quite accurate. And I don't know of any kind of gambit that you could be talking about would be equated to your play. I also like the idea of Benmage being the third scum. Shall we finish them off today?

This post, the one above. I specifically stated, in addition to what plum had said, that him calling something a gambit seems far to suspicious to let it slide. He also probably moved his vote to me in that post in order to make this look like it was an OMGUS, with the intent of trying to get me lynched instead.

[Plum]

I think Plum's case is quite accurate. And I don't know of any kind of gambit that you could be talking about would be equated to your play. I also like the idea of Benmage being the third scum. Shall we finish them off today?

This post, the one above. I specifically stated, in addition to what plum had said, that him calling something a gambit seems far to suspicious to let it slide. He also probably moved his vote to me in that post in order to make this look like it was an OMGUS, with the intent of trying to get me lynched instead.

Wait, what? The last bit - are you trying to say that you think he moved his vote to you before you voted him so you would look like you were OMGUSing when you voted him after he voted you? You don't seem to specifically say 'calling it a gambit = scummy', but whatever.

[EmpTyger]

Sorry, all- in the Fiscal Year-themed mafia game I’m playing irl, up against a deadline and that’s taking priority for me. Things will be better tomorrow. I did a reread of D2, but I’m way too tired to compose thoughts tonight. I still really think dejkha needs to die, and I don’t understand why I seem to be the only one to realize that he’s in this game, but deadline coming up, so

Unvote: dejkha

.

[dejkha]

@Emp: Is that because you think I haven't posted? Because I was prodded and post 219 is mine and if there's something you don't like about it, then at least explain.

[Kieraen]

This post, the one above. I specifically stated, in addition to what plum had said, that him calling something a gambit seems far to suspicious to let it slide. He also probably moved his vote to me in that post in order to make this look like it was an OMGUS, with the intent of trying to get me lynched instead.

I want you to be lynched because I have a stong suspicion you are scum.

[Benmage]

With the Kieraen increased votes I a have decided to do a reread and assess her position. That and the VT claim at L-3 seemed premature to me.

D1 Conclusion: Initially was too inactive. Spryex in his claim suggested modkill. Posts a minor synopsis following Spryex’s post and starts being more active.

D2: She continues D2 playing well. Asking RBT to expand his questions and seems genuinely town. Post 178 is where I personally disagree with her. I don’t like her ‘options’ including lynching an innocent (Caboose) to prove his identity.

and 1 dead useless cop.

Useless...we only have so many #'s before we lose.

D2 cont: In a relatively short period of time, 7 hrs on March 25, without strong arguments she shifts from Caboose to RBT….By the next day she returns to her vote on Caboose (little jumpy)

Caboose the best townie play would have been to make your claim as a 'cop' thus ensuring that the mafia would lynch you for your investigative abilities.

Claiming one shot cop means the mafia know you are now redundant and will focus on others who may also have one shot abilties an have not used it.

Whether mafia or town the play was poor.

What Cop would claim that they’ve found a townie?? No point insta-bullseye. His claim as a one-shot imo was a good move.

D2 cont: Admits Caboose is most likely a one-shot cop post 203 (doesn’t unvote)…eventually shifts vote to RBT.

The VT claim….WAY to early. L-3…admitting to not being the best player is weaksauce. KoC and Plum point this out quite quickly.

The VT claim at L-3 hurts Kieraen's case more than it helps.

What the
Godfather possibility slightly increased.

You didn't find the premature VT claim at least questionable?

I do.

All in all, Kierean doesn’t fly up my scum meter. I start disagreeing with her position in 178, but that could be poor play. She jumps a lot…meh. I really don’t like the VT claim at L-3 and have my suspicions for it. Not totally against seeing her killed, but feel RBT and Lowell deserve it more.

RBT is at L-2 maybe a claim buddy?

[Caboose]

The VT claim at L-3 hurts Kieraen's case more than it helps.

What the
Godfather possibility slightly increased.

You didn't find the premature VT claim at least questionable?

No, especially with the approaching deadline.

I can see how the VT claim wouldn't convince anyone of his innocence, but it shouldn't be used to condemn him. That just looks like scum trying to get a mislynch.

[Plum]

The VT claim at L-3 hurts Kieraen's case more than it helps.

What the
Godfather possibility slightly increased.

You didn't find the premature VT claim at least questionable?

No, especially with the approaching deadline.

I can see how the VT claim wouldn't convince anyone of his innocence, but it shouldn't be used to condemn him. That just looks like scum trying to get a mislynch.

The prematurity of the claim was what bothered me, and in your view it wasn't really premature. Perhaps I have a different gut reaction to how long we have until deadline than you; maybe I'm not feeling the pressure soon enough, or at any rate as soon as you.

[Kieraen]

sorry to disappoint, but despite reputation I am a male.

claim was perhaps early, yes, but the deadline is pretty soon. I was recently lynched because, even though I later found out I had convinced the town I was townie, the wagon had moved to far and moving it would have been poor townie play. So I claim now.

Lowell and RBT have a great deal more questions and posts to answer and write before I do.

+town points for Benmage for an actual honest assessment of my play. Not a bandwagon jumper I suspect.

+town points for Caboose. I have started to notice some townie play in your game.

-town points for RBT. On the previous page she dismissed Plums opening argument against me, then the following post agreed with it and voted for me. It stinks of either OMGUS townie play (which is not pro town) or scum looking for the easy kill.

@Emptiger what is your problem with Dejkha? I haven't seen anything particularly but would be interested. Its probably too late for a lynch against him but I'm interested in the arguments against him.

[Atronach]

Kieraen: Premature claim does bother me. It is a scumtell. Possibly voteworthy. The claim of vt, however, is null to me. However, I disagree with Caboose on this:

but it shouldn't be used to condemn him. That just looks like scum trying to get a mislynch.

This is a big stretch. Like I said, the claim is a nulltell in my book, but it is subjective. In any case, the defense of his play is what makes me think he may be scum.

RBT: What is there to say? Her gameplay has remained consistent...and therein lies the problem. I've been in favor of an RBT lynch if for nothing else than unhelpfulness. And with each subsequent post, she looks more and more like scum.

I will wait for and weigh a claim before I place my vote. For now,

Unvote

[Riceballtail]

-town points for RBT. On the previous page she dismissed Plums opening argument against me, then the following post agreed with it and voted for me.

This is a blatant misrep of what I said.

It stinks of either OMGUS townie play (which is not pro town) or scum looking for the easy kill.

Wow, it's like I said you'd say this! Oh wait, I did! Want to tell us who your buddy is before we lynch you?

Honestly, you spent how long saying "RBT is suspicious" but waited until you had a strong wagon against you to actually start pushing the case? You waited until you knew you had to go for the easy kill and pile your vote on the wagon. It's time for you to go.

[EmpTyger]

First of all, in case I’m not around: Lynch Lowell tomorrow.

After Caboose’s revelation at the start of D2, everyone reacts in some way to it- except for 2 players:
dejkha “forgets about the game” and then comes up with a very confused reading of Caboose’s claim.
Kieraen ignores it, until a couple days later when he somehow decides that Lowell and Caboose are either both guilty or both innocent.

If it comes to it in 24 hours, I’ll vote Kieraen over RBT (I also really don’t like this press for RBT to claim) but honestly I don’t like it. I find Lowell, Caboose, and dejkha easily more suspicious.

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dejkha:

@Emp: Is that because you think I haven't posted? Because I was prodded and post 219 is mine and if there's something you don't like about it, then at least explain.

No. And just because you’ve made 1 decent post, only after the mod posted inthread that he prodded you, doesn’t excuse your lurking through 2 days. I mean, here’s what you’ve done this game:

1) Random vote
2) Banter
3) Lurk here while being active elsewhere
4) Jump onto the Spyre bandwagon while attacking him (someone we now know is innocent)
5) Switch your vote to Lowell (for not contributing, <snort>) because deadline was approaching- despite Spyre being at 4 votes and Lowell only at 1.
6) Lurk here while being active elsewhere
7) Jump onto the Lowell bandwagon quietly.
8) Lurk here while being active elsewhere
9) Jump onto the Kieraen bandwagon, while attacking him.

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Caboose:

I don't see the case on RBT.
<snip>

24 hours later- during which RBT didn’t post- you decide:

<snip>
RBT jump onto the Kieraen wagon troubles me.
RBT, why exactly did you vote Kieraen, again. I know you said it wasn't OMGUS, but if it isn't OMGUS, what is it?
And don't just say "what Plum said," either.

Oh, and,

Vote: RBT

RBT “jumped onto the Kieraen wagon” in [215], posted over 1 hour before you “didn’t see the case on him”.

<snip>
Where’s your clear answer to Why do you think Lowell is innocent?

His claim is believeable. Also, he hasn't done anything scummy since his day 1 crap attack.
<snip>

(:roll: Thanks, I so needed an unsolicited example of what begging the question was.)
Where’s your clear answer to Why is his claim believable?
The “he hasn't done anything scummy since his day 1 crap attack” is laughable- he hasn’t done *anything*. Except give a weak claim and say he “100% believes yours.

I hypothesized it.

So you're using this hypothesis to justify you saying that there's a "huge hole" in Lowell's claim? And I don't see how him not using his ability makes a "huge hole" either. I wasn't going to use my ability N1, either, until the ridiculous bandwagon built on me Day 1.

Wow, are you jumping through hoops to defend Lowell.
1) The huge hole is simply that Lowell “forgot” to use his ability N1. Nothing hypothesized. (My hypothesis just adds a too-convenient bonus for Lowell.)
2) You’re trying to say that you weren’t planning to use a 1-shot cop ability N1? Even Lowell isn’t going so far as to claim that it was optimal.

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Benmage:

<snip>
Also, please don't get so hung up on semantics...'generally townie' is pretty arbitrary as it doesn't mean 100% so it really means zilch in the long run.

You said an action was protown when a player was getting mild suspicion but no votes early D1. But when a serious bandwagon and multiple votes come along D2, you turn around and say the same action is actually antitown. That’s not meaningless semantics. And anyway, just because something isn’t 100% certain doesn’t mean you get to wave it away as meaningless. Especially when it so happens one of the best way of finding mafia is by analyzing what players say and do.

So, try again. Clarify whether you think Lowell’s postings are or are not indicative of alignment. And while you’re at it, some more specific and nondisavowable reasons on others would be nice.

[Benmage]

Benmage:

<snip>
Also, please don't get so hung up on semantics...'generally townie' is pretty arbitrary as it doesn't mean 100% so it really means zilch in the long run.

You said an action was protown when a player was getting mild suspicion but no votes early D1. But when a serious bandwagon and multiple votes come along D2, you turn around and say the same action is actually antitown. That’s not meaningless semantics. And anyway, just because something isn’t 100% certain doesn’t mean you get to wave it away as meaningless. Especially when it so happens one of the best way of finding mafia is by analyzing what players say and do.

So, try again. Clarify whether you think Lowell’s postings are or are not indicative of alignment. And while you’re at it, some more specific and nondisavowable reasons on others would be nice.

Lowell's post giving points was still during the random phase.. There was little information at all for anyone. I said the 'giving points' is generally a town move. Not 100% town no need to investigate further this person is definitely town. Hell no. Besides as you keep asking what made my switch in feelings about Lowell?? First there was nothing to switch as I said the one move is often a town move done at such an early stage with so little information from anyone that I didn't have an opinion on anyone. If there was any tiny form of an opinion it was so minuscule it did not take a lot to change. However, Lowell's continuous style is most scummy imo. Lowell continues to post very limited hardly revealing information.

I state this from the very original post that you quoted me from. If you would've finished reading you would have seen this. Furthermore the claim and forgetfulness has only strengthened my suspicions about Lowell's scumminess.

In conclusion:

Clarify whether you think Lowell’s postings are or are not indicative of alignment.

Lowell's posting, save the very beginning(RVS which is meaningless anyways but you're quite hung up on it) in the entirety of the game has been and played scummy.

More nondisavowable reasons... Other than not being sure if thats even proper English, I do understand what you're getting at, and hey I did just give a post on Keirean.

I can go back and go day to day for everyone.. but why are you asking me alone to do this?

Some quick thoughts for whomever is interested. I'd say Lowell, KoC, and EmpTyger are leading candidates for scum.

Feeling that Caboose(for claim) and Plum are innocent. I think Kieraen's play has been town-like. I think Dejkha is town as well tho tough read on him. No real read on Atronach either though I was feeling scum initially.

RBT is somewhere stuck in the middle for me. Would love a claim, unfortunately with these 10 day deadlines I am satisfied with seeing him lynched.

[Riceballtail]

Some quick thoughts for whomever is interested. I'd say Lowell, KoC, and EmpTyger are leading candidates for scum...

...RBT is somewhere stuck in the middle for me. Would love a claim, unfortunately with these 10 day deadlines I am satisfied with seeing him lynched.

So wait, I'm not a leading candidate for scum, but you want me lynched anyway? Hello scum #3!

[Benmage]

Really? nice claim boss(sarcasm). Did you not read what you quoted? I have said from D1 i believe.. maybe only D2 that i'd prefer to see Lowell go. More people would rather see you go, and you haven't proven any reasons why this shouldn't happen.

Please claim. Again, we have limited time here, so yes I am satisfied with you being lynched.

[dejkha]

No. And just because you’ve made 1 decent post, only after the mod posted inthread that he prodded you, doesn’t excuse your lurking through 2 days. I mean, here’s what you’ve done this game:

1) Random vote
2) Banter
3) Lurk here while being active elsewhere
4) Jump onto the Spyre bandwagon while attacking him (someone we now know is innocent)
5) Switch your vote to Lowell (for not contributing, <snort>) because deadline was approaching- despite Spyre being at 4 votes and Lowell only at 1.
6) Lurk here while being active elsewhere
7) Jump onto the Lowell bandwagon quietly.
8) Lurk here while being active elsewhere
9) Jump onto the Kieraen bandwagon, while attacking him.

For the record, my vote on Lowell wasn't just for not contributing, but also for not coming through on that promise from Day 1. So from the look of it, you're primarily suspicious on me for lurking? It was hard to tell since you listed thing I've "done this game" rather than what you're suspicious of. Is there anything wrong with attacking people? They were still allowed to defend themselves; Spyre did and Kieraen decided not to.

[Kieraen]

Okay If its to be me or RBT.

At least you will get a read on me tomorrow and the day after. I post what I think and post clear and long answers. I am town, but apart from that I am doing pro town things like theorising gambits (which the town hate) and proposing lynch targets and tghe like.

RBT has contributed nothing at all, her arguments are childesh 'you said I'm scum, well YOU'RE SCUM' arguments and she hasn't built a decent case or found any suspicious play AT ALL. She along with Lowell should be top lynch candidates for scumminess and general anti-townness.

Im fairly inclined to believe Plum and Caboose as townies, as ignoring their claims I feel they played townie on day one, particularly the former.

Dejkha, and Emptiger...Well I'm not sure. I think I'm going to do a reread. I am finding Emptiger increasingly suspicious but would like a reread before commenting further. He has arguments against Dejkha that I would also like to read, which will help to credit or discredit him as a townie.

---

The "I'm rubber, you're glue!" Votecount

Kieraen (4) - Plum, Riceballtail, dejkha, Knight of Cydonia
Riceballtail (4) - Lowell, Kieraen, Benmage, Caboose

Not Voting (2):

EmpTyger, Atronoch

6 to lynch

[Porkens]

Day 2 will end at aprox. 27 hours from the time of this post

[Lowell]

I'd prefer RBT, but will switch my vote if needed to avoid a no-lynch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm not seeing an RBT lynch as optimal at this point.

[Riceballtail]

RBT has contributed nothing at all, her arguments are childesh 'you said I'm scum, well YOU'RE SCUM' arguments and she hasn't built a decent case or found any suspicious play AT ALL. She along with Lowell should be top lynch candidates for scumminess and general anti-townness.

Hey look! More misrepresentation and ignoring what I've posted! Can we lynch him already?

[Atronach]

You had better get a claim in the next post RBT, or my vote is on you. The evasiveness is beyond annoying, beyond scummy, and is not "life or death". I will only be able to post tonight or tomorrow morning.

[EmpTyger]

I’m liking these bandwagons less and less and am worrying I gave up too quickly on dejkha. Can everyone to checkin with whether they will be online between now and deadline? Or at the very least, their opinion of dejkha independent of deadline. My last chance to vote will probably be 7 hours before deadline.

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dejkha:

<snip>
So from the look of it, you're primarily suspicious on me for lurking? It was hard to tell since you listed thing I've "done this game" rather than what you're suspicious of.

“Except for my suspicious behavior, what have I done that’s suspicious…”?
I listed everything you’ve done because I find it entirely suspicious.

Lurking is antitown behavior

. It doesn’t help the town, especially with short deadlines. It’s inexcusable when you’re plenty active otherwise onsite. As Spyre pointed out:

<snip>
Lurking, therefore, should UNANIMOUSLY be condemned in this setup.

Of course, the mod is nice enough to eliminate the true lurkers - I am more worried about the lurkers that post that once or twice a day to avoid the above.

I am, right now and pre-emptively, calling all of those people scum. Come day 2 sans confirmed scum I want the contentless players eliminated.
<snip>

Is there anything wrong with attacking people? They were still allowed to defend themselves; Spyre did and Kieraen decided not to.

When you voted Spyre, you loudly argued against him. Whereas with Lowell, you just quietly slipped a vote on and ignored him otherwise. And Spyre we know now is innocent, and Lowell is the most suspicious player in the game by far.

You have only attacked players after someone else sticks out their neck to do so. You’re not trying to find mafia. You’re lurking, lying low, following others, blending in with the herd.

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Benmage:

Lowell's posting, save the very beginning(RVS which is meaningless anyways but you're quite hung up on it)

I have seen new players get caught from their randomposts. I’ve seen good players get caught from their “randomvote” posts. I’ve caught mafia, and been caught as mafia, in those early posts.

I’m not saying that it’s 100% definite. But it’s not 100% meaningless. You’re trying very hard to disassociate yourself from your early defense of Lowell.

I can go back and go day to day for everyone.. but why are you asking me alone to do this?

You seemed to pick your reasons out of thin air, and too quick to say that they’re “meaningless” when I look closely. So I wanted *you* on record *today* with something that you wouldn’t be able to toss off as “meaningless” if I should perhaps maybe somehow accidentally not be around tomorrow to hold you to it.

I state this from the very original post that you quoted me from. If you would've finished reading you would have seen this. Furthermore the claim and forgetfulness has only strengthened my suspicions about Lowell's scumminess.

For the third time- I *did* read it, and I did see it! Which is why I asked you about it! Because that’s *not* what you said: what you actually said was that your initial “Lowell is protown” meant “zilch”. Which is very different from “accurate at the time”.