Mini 758 - Normalcy (GAME OVER)

[dejkha]

sorry ive been away.

I used my one-shot. KIERNAN did not go anywhere.

Like KoC, he might not have been the one to submit the kill. And since you and Kier are my top suspects, I'm thinking that you may both be scum, since i never believed your claim. So if you're both scum, I could see you using your fakeclaim to protect him.

---

The "I miss Plum." Votecount

Kieraen (3) - Knight of Cydonia, dejkha, Riceballtail

Emptyger (1) - Benmage
Knight of Cydonia (1) - Kieraen

Not Voting (4):

EmpTyger, Atronoch, Lowell, Caboose

5 to lynch

[Kieraen]

Well I believe him now.... How about that for WIFOM...

[Knight of Cydonia]

I can believe a Lowell-Kieraen fake-clear... but unless they were really desperate, I'm finding it hard to explain why Lowell would step in unless Kieraen was a particularly vital scum role. Lowell doesn't exactly strike me as logical though, so... Iunno.

[EmpTyger]

Kieraen:

At least we know Caboose is probably who he says he is now.

Why do you say that?

vote emptiger

HOS KoC

Both had the chance to gurantee a lynch yesterday. I find emptiger slightly more suspicious for his complete lack of vote, than KoC who at least had voted.

Interesting. That logic only holds if at least 1 of {Kieraen, RBT} are guilty. Since you presumably know that you yourself are innocent, why aren’t you voting RBT before attacking me and KoC? Because if {Kieraen, RBT} are both innocent, then how on earth is that a sign of guilt?

Unless, of course, *you*’re guilty, right?

<snip>
Players that are true vanilla townies must realise that if we get to l-1 it is well within good townie play to be lynched to secure a lynch.
<snip>

This is one of the most incorrect things I have ever read. A no-lynch is bad because it deprives the town of a chance of lynching mafia. That doesn’t make it automatically worse than every other option. Because, guess what. A townsperson self-lynching does even more to deprive the town of a chance of lynching mafia.

(Besides, according to your [incorrect] logic- then why didn’t you vote yourself? If someone’s guilty if they didn’t vote themself at lynch-1, then why not the person who didn’t vote themself at lynch-2?)

---

Lowell:
Why did you target Kieraen?
If you thought him innocent, he claimed vanilla.
If you thought him guilty, why didn’t you indicate any kind of willingness to lynch him yesterday

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KoC:

Doesn't exactly prove he's town, though, does it? We still have 3 scum, so he may well just not have submitted the kill.

You seem awfully sure about this.

---

Atronach:
Repeating the last implied question from the end of D2:
What are your feelings about dejkha?

---

Benmage:
You were really quick to try to point the finger onto me and only me first thing in the morning. That wasn’t what you thought at the end of yesterday. What changed overnight?

[Knight of Cydonia]

How do I seem "awfully sure" EmpTyger? I'm saying he might not have submitted the kill. That's all.

[Kieraen]

I find it good logic emptiger.

If we have a suspect (or multiple suspects) day in day out, but worry about not lynching them then we are giving free kills to the mafia. If a townie is constantly a lynch target then he may as well get out the limelight and be lynched. At very least it gives the town one extra confirmed townie in which to anlysys his posts.

What if for instance me and RBT are both townies?

We are wasting valuable time and lynch oppurtunities trying to discover which if any of us, is mafia?

Better I was lynched yesterday you see I'm townie and can see who's pushing the lynch.

My favourite is for KoC and RBT to be on one scum team, as he seems to be defending her.

I can understand he wants to lynch me, but he is completely blinded to her scummy play (which I doubt that anyone can deny exists). Even if she isn't his first target he gave no other explanation for not voting her ecept "this isn't optimal at the moment".

I'm fairly certain that KoC and RBT are one scum team now.

[Kieraen]

Unless, of course, *you*’re guilty, right?

Kieraen [281] wrote:
<snip>
Players that are true vanilla townies must realise that if we get to l-1 it is well within good townie play to be lynched to secure a lynch.
<snip>

This is one of the most incorrect things I have ever read. A no-lynch is bad because it deprives the town of a chance of lynching mafia. That doesn’t make it automatically worse than every other option. Because, guess what. A townsperson self-lynching does even more to deprive the town of a chance of lynching mafia.

(Besides, according to your [incorrect] logic- then why didn’t you vote yourself? If someone’s guilty if they didn’t vote themself at lynch-1, then why not the person who didn’t vote themself at lynch-2?)

Because if I unvoted mysélf I

a) voted for the one person I knew in the game to be townie,

b) stopped voting for my biggest suspect

and

c) was going after someone with less votes.

RBT was already at L-1, I didn't expect a no lynch. I was L-2. I couldn't change the tide, and was offline during the no lynch. You and KoC on the other hand WERE online, and COULD do something about it.

major scummy points.

Why didn't you vote yesterday Emptiger?

[Kieraen]

I can believe a Lowell-Kieraen fake-clear... but unless they were really desperate, I'm finding it hard to explain why Lowell would step in unless Kieraen was a particularly vital scum role. Lowell doesn't exactly strike me as logical though, so... Iunno.

In this case the most logical case is that Lowell is who he says he is (one shot tracker) and
a) I'm none vital scum and didn't go anywhere last night

or

b)I'm vanilla


There is also c) Lowell is scum and following a townie, proving his credentials by following a real townie.

But I find d) unlikely

d) Lowell scum is defending Kieraen Scum.


Why do you automatically pick the least likely? @KoC
I think Lowell is far more likely to be townie now, and I am to a much lesser degree helped.

So why pick the one that seems the most far fetched?

[Knight of Cydonia]

My favourite is for KoC and RBT to be on one scum team, as he seems to be defending her.

I'm not defending RBT - I think she's town, because she's reminding me of her town meta - I'm defending against your stupid attack because I chose a no-lynch that meant we aren't into LyLo today.

But I find d) unlikely

d) Lowell scum is defending Kieraen Scum.


Why do you automatically pick the least likely? @KoC

Did I? I said I could believe it. I never said it was definitely what was going on. But please, feel free to misrep me more.

a) I'm none vital scum and didn't go anywhere last night

This is what I find more likely.

RBT was already at L-1, I didn't expect a no lynch. I was L-2. I couldn't change the tide, and was offline during the no lynch. You and KoC on the other hand WERE online, and COULD do something about it.

major scummy points.

Why didn't you vote yesterday Emptiger?

What is your problem with people who didn't vote for RBT because you said so? Also - you said earlier you found EmpTyger scummier because he didn't vote at all - yet you're voting me. Makes no sense.

[Kieraen]

I don't like your arguments your making.

I find Emptiger more indecisive at the minute, and see him asking questions of all the village.

You are tunnelling, and I get the sincere feeling that you are tunnelling on a townie, in the role of a scummer. I think you didn't vote RBT yesterday as she is your scum buddy.

[Lowell]

emp, I explained this. I didn't want to target my biggest suspect, because I figured it would be stopped somehow (either by me dying or him--RBT-- not making the kill).

[Knight of Cydonia]

I don't like your arguments your making.

(1)

I find Emptiger more indecisive at the minute

(2)

, and see him asking questions of all the village.

(3)

You are tunnelling

(4)

, and I get the sincere feeling that you are tunnelling on a townie, in the role of a scummer. I think you didn't vote RBT yesterday as she is your scum buddy.

(5)

(1) Why not? You keep saying this, but you've yet to provide any counter-argument to properly defend yourself.

(2) So indecision, uhming and aahing, and waiting to see which wagon comes up fastest is town play now?

(3) Uhm... not really. 5 players =/= the whole village.

(4) I hate to bring meta into this, but as almost anyone in this game can tell you, my townie meta is to find someone I think is scum - in this case, you - and attack them pretty heavily. Some scum like to call that tunnelling to misrep me for an easy lynch.

(5) Again, repeating this =/= making it true. All you've done today is say:
- ZOMG KoC allowed no-lynch, must die! (Whilst carefully ignoring Emptyger, who you supposedly found MORE scummy for not voting at all; and carefully ignoring the fact that in this case, no-lynch was almost certainly better than lynching RBT, because if, as I fully expect, RBT flipped town, we'd be in LyLo today)
- ZOMG KoC didn't vote for someone he thinks is town, must die! (Whilst utterly failing to give any concrete evidence of a supposed scum-link between myself and RBT, other than I think she's town because, and again I hate to use it, but she does seem to be following her town meta here).

Come back when you can make a case that isn't utterly groundless and in several places a blatant misrep or falsification of the facts, based on your pre-assumption that RBT ABSOLUTELY MUST BE SCUM.

[Kieraen]

At any rate this is a pointless argument when so many townies are being so quiet.

I wanna hear more opinions that just my own and KoC's.

If I am too be lynched so be it, but as it stands now so few players are actualy saying anything that it would seem any discussion of who is or is not guilty is beside the point.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Just because no-one else is around, that doesn't stop you from responding to my accusations. Stop playing for time and hoping a scumbuddy will drop in and save you.

[Atronach]

For now let me say we cannot let this turn into a KoC Kieraen fight because we saw a similar thing happen D1. We need more people's opinions on what is being said even if you have already voted.

I haven't been on as much as I would like thanks to work. However tonight, I will post some analysis on dejkha per request, and on Kieraen.

[EmpTyger]

KoC:

How do I seem "awfully sure" EmpTyger? I'm saying he might not have submitted the kill. That's all.

Not what I’m asking. I’m asking why you seem so sure there are 3 mafia.

---

Lowell:

emp, I explained this. I didn't want to target my biggest suspect, because I figured it would be stopped somehow (either by me dying or him--RBT-- not making the kill).

Not what I’m asking. I’m asking why, if Kieraen was your second biggest suspect, why you didn’t indicate in any way this suspicion beforehand? In particular yesterday, when there were a RBT and a Kieraen bandwagons, you said a

---

Kieraen:

If a townie is constantly a lynch target then he may as well get out the limelight and be lynched.

RBT is not a lynch target just because you keep repeating it. RBT does not have to be inevitably lynched at some point. Therefore anyone who isn’t for it immediately isn’t suspicious, and the town isn’t wasting a day lynching him today instead of yesterday. I myself will not be voting RBT today just as much- in fact, moreso- than I wasn’t voting him yesterday.

At very least it gives the town one extra confirmed townie in which to anlysys his posts.

Show me where you did this or advised it should be done after Spyre’s mislynch.

What if for instance me and RBT are both townies?
<snip>

I’m thinking this case increasingly unlikely. But, to answer your question- then obviously we don’t want to lynch either of you! And instead of having players repeat that both of you must be lynched, we should be looking at who keeps insisting that both need to die and obsessively keeping the focus on you 2. Which, ironically, includes you.

Better I was lynched yesterday you see I'm townie and can see who's pushing the lynch.
<snip>

Um, don’t *you* already know you’re townie? (Temporarily assuming you’re innocent, of course.) Shouldn’t you at least then be able to figure out who was pushing your lynch? But instead, you’re trying to attack those who *didn’t* push your lynch!

<snip>
You are tunnelling, and I get the sincere feeling that you are tunnelling on a townie, in the role of a scummer.
<snip>

Um, you said this to KoC, who was tunneling on *you*. Why “get the sincere feeling”? (Again, with the same increasingly unlikely assumption.) Shouldn’t you *know* for certain whether KoC is “tunneling on a townie” or not, because you would know that you’re innocent?

[Knight of Cydonia]

EmpTyger - I'm not sure of it, but given that this is a Mini Normal, 3 mafia is generally the norm. Until we find anything out to the contrary, I'm basing my thoughts on a 3-scum assumption.

[Benmage]

Benmage:
You were really quick to try to point the finger onto me and only me first thing in the morning. That wasn’t what you thought at the end of yesterday. What changed overnight?

I forget exactly...lol, i thought I had reasons. One for sure was the lack of a vote allowing scum a free night kill.

Regardless I'm gonna pull off the vote atm, have a more indepth summary in the makings, been kinda busy.

Unvote

[Atronach]

Reading dejkha's posts for the game, the scummiest things I saw were these:

Sorry, I forgot about this game.

Oh wow, sorry everyone. I completely forgot about this game.

No business elsewhere, just "forgot" about the game. Excusable, perhaps, since he has posted quite a bit since. Still, all of his posts prior to this higher frequency look like scum trying to fly under the radar. Lurking through two game days is a good scum defense. What's more, his most substantive posts are in defense of himself.

I wish we could afford to lynch the people that have provided nothing of benefit to the town. Dejkha, RBT, and Lowell are the first ones that come to mind there. I think the best thing we can do is ask for analysis from these players. If they are less than cooperative, we should all agree they are lynch candidates. More than likely, we turn up scum amongst them. If they flip town, we can rest assured that this game might be lost because of poor town play. Or lack of play as it turns out.

[Lowell]

More detailed post will come when I get a chance. For now I'll say I find KoC very town, Kiraen slightly town, and RBT suspiciously absent.

vote RBT

[Benmage]

(Half assessment done, and subject to change as I re-analyze those I haven't yet. Plus I need to catchup on the most recent page 19-20ish posts.)

Driving home from school today for easter and didn't want to leave this half assessment....so comment on it or not, will finish it within the next day or so.

But here it is:

So here is where I’m at: There probably are 3 scum. In a newbie game of 9 there are 2 scum. Here we’ve added 3 players making the game 12, so I’m figuring we added 1 scum and two town.

That being said only 9 of us remain. If we don’t get some success going we lose. If we were to lynch a townie today and they get another night kill we would enter day 4 with 7 players 3 scum 4 town. (4 needed for a lynch) So it would be damn near impossible to get all those 4 townspeople to not be swayed by the 3 scum and vote successfully on a scum person.

What I am getting at is today is crucial to the towns success.

Leading current Candidates for me are KoC and Dejkha next inline are RBT and Emptyger. (If you notice Dejkha and KoC leave their votes on Kierean both ensuring RBT’s survival.) For this reason I suspect RBT could be scum as the scum wanted to save their fellow scum. But also Emptyger did not vote for RBT, so perhaps the scum wanted a no lynch, a free night kill, cause further town disarray and try to keep some distance in stances. I’m leaning slightly more towards RBT atm being scum than Emp. Emp seems to have some constructive posts, but doesn’t seem to vote well. RBT, crazy late useless claim.

Cont:

1.I felt Kierean’s play was town via my analysis and although Lowell’s move doesn’t confirm her allegiance I think it is just one more brick in the analysis that she’s town.

2. I think Lowell has redeemed his ‘town’ stance with his claim and move.

3. No reason not to believe Caboose. Poor plum

4. Now Atronach I originally believed to be a top town candidate. That was from his post 13 where I misinterpreted his seriousness(which he notices, so kudos) but still feel he dislikes the idea of setting up excuses for later lynches, which stuck me as town. Omgus voted juls…(omgus is so stained as a scum move people are always saying “woah woah he omgus’d he must be scum”, but I love using it when I’m town cause….screw it I’m town, and I think Atronach may have had a similar idea here).

When Atronach starts questioning Caboose’s claim in a negative way on D2 is where I think I started questioning his allegiance. However other people have seemed more scummier to me as of late, and Atronach has retroacted his style and I find him more and more town again.

He votes Lowell for inactivity and complains to RBT for lack of input in post 170. Scum do like to try and post little and remain off radar, so this could be a good read.

Again he posts altogether well. Post 207, good read on KoC imo (Kierean, well poor play).

Puts pressure on RBT to claim, and votes well. On D3 returns to Lowell question.

[Knight of Cydonia]

If you notice Dejkha and KoC leave their votes on Kierean both ensuring RBT’s survival.

If we were scum, we'd have voted RBT, who you (and I) believe to be town, said today "better than no lynch, right?", and we'd be in LyLo today. Not lynching someone you believe to be town = town move. Not voting someone to lynch them and put the town into LyLo today = town move. So why do all the cases against me seem to based on me doing something which was inherently a townie action, by giving us an extra day of scumhunting?

[Riceballtail]

If you notice Dejkha and KoC leave their votes on Kierean both ensuring RBT’s survival.

If we were scum, we'd have voted RBT, who you (and I) believe to be town, said today "better than no lynch, right?", and we'd be in LyLo today. Not lynching someone you believe to be town = town move. Not voting someone to lynch them and put the town into LyLo today = town move. So why do all the cases against me seem to based on me doing something which was inherently a townie action, by giving us an extra day of scumhunting?

Well, it doesn't excuse you as being confirmed town, but I agree in that if you genuinely find me town, then you shouldn't hammer me. Especially when I may have completely made up that I protected someone N1.

---

The "Happy Scumday RBT!" Votecount

Kieraen (3) - Knight of Cydonia, dejkha, Riceballtail

Knight of Cydonia (1) - Kieraen
Riceballtail (1) - Lowell

Not Voting (4):

EmpTyger, Atronoch, Caboose, Benmage

5 to lynch

[Benmage]

If you notice Dejkha and KoC leave their votes on Kierean both ensuring RBT’s survival.

If we were scum, we'd have voted RBT, who you (and I) believe to be town

I don't believe rbt to be town, said he's top 4 of scum candidate and actually probably a top 3 in cahoots with you and Dejkha.

[Benmage]

you didn't vote him cause he and you are scum together.