Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)

[sekinj]

Any swingers in here? that's how me and my lover role...

[sekinj]

Charter just missed all my points, but oh well, because I just saw what Adel said:

because it would invalidate the secret scumtell I have that I won't announce until we have three days on the books without a lover-pair massclaim.

I believe I know what she's talking about. I don't believe that claiming would completely invalidate it, but it certainly wouldn't help...

I hope the other townies in this game will pick up on what he's saying and not reveal this secret scumtell.

(If any of you inquire about this, I will assume you are scum.)

too bad you put the warning at the bottom...

[sekinj]

The safest play is to wait on the mass claim. Day 4 or 5 might be the ideal time, but depending on how things go, we can always mass claim later today or on Day 2. But once we've claimed, we can't take it back. So I agree on the waiting strategy.

[sekinj]

Also I'm not sure about Adel's scumtell thing. I don't understand it generally so elaboration would be helpful to why people would change their minds of a early lover mass claim.

Not a good move...

[sekinj]

Alabaska J: Can you please stop using caps. It makes you look hyperactive and scummy about a few votes. There is 13 votes needed to lynch and 8 scums total let us be aware of that when we vote please.

I would almost be willing to use our day 1 lynch as a behavioral check to keep disruptive players (Alabaska J) in line.

That's a little harsh. I can see getting rid of distractions who might be scum, but a lynch for using caps? how does that help the town?

[sekinj]

Yeah, Pwnz's vote is a little troublesome, but that could just be that he knows what we're talking about and doesn't want to spill any information.

Yea, as if. I just want to see someone lynched.

hmmm... somehow I'm just not getting townie vibes from this..

[sekinj]

Crazy was way too eager and fast to agree with Adel and try to convince everyone he knew what the tell was. Even if he had something of his own in mind, why did just one post from Adel convince him so quickly? and how did he think he could get everyone to post their daytalk? It seems that Adel's comments should have made it clear to Crazy that the tell Crazy was thinking of was completely off. I agree that Crazy is full of bull.

And the worse offense imo, is asking to be kept alive!!

Vote: Crazy

[sekinj]

Did you guys that recently hopped on my wagon even read the recent posts that show that I

was

actually talking about something? Mainly directed at sekinj.

Crazy was way too eager and fast to agree with Adel and try to convince everyone he knew what the tell was.

Even if he had something of his own in mind,

why did just one post from Adel convince him so quickly? and how did he think he could get everyone to post their daytalk? It seems that Adel's comments should have made it clear to Crazy that the tell Crazy was thinking of was completely off. I agree that Crazy is full of bull.

And the worse offense imo, is asking to be kept alive!!

Vote: Crazy

see in bold

[sekinj]

@crazy: Adel's clues just don't fit with the daytalk "tell". This wasn't clear to the rest of us until you revealed exactly what it was you were thinking of. however, it seems as though you should have realized that a long time ago, instead of accusing others of not knowing the tell and trying to lynch them because of it. Actually, by your own criteria we should be lynching you because you don't know the tell. But, I am voting for you because I think it is scummy for one post by other player to change your perspective so dramatically. And ever since then you have been trying too hard to convince everyone you know the tell. And damning other players that are confused. That is what is scummy about your actions.

[sekinj]

1. I thought Adel was talking about the same thing I was, until, well, she voted me.
2. I thought everyone would post their daytalk because I never saw a rule against it.
3. Adel, too, is asking to keep alive. You aren't suspicious of her, why?

1. Your bad, now that I know your tell it seems obvious to me that she was not talking about that. You should have picked up on that sooner.
2. Again, your bad. The default is usually that quoting anything outside the thread is against the spirit of the game. I understand their wasn't a rule until later, but that seems a big assumption to make.
3. Adel seemed to be saying that the tell would be useful on day 3 or 4 if we didn't mass claim. She didn't say "I have to be alive for the tell to work". Now, maybe that is what she meant, but that is not what I understood from her posting. You on the other hand said "Please keep me alive."

[sekinj]

hmm... I guess we are back to the problem of whether or not we skip lynching one scummy player based on the less-summy actions of his/her lover.

[sekinj]

Iceman, you're full of crap. Those posts you quoted WERE BEFORE MY SCUMTELL WAS REVEALED!

And I unvoted you BECAUSE MY SCUMTELL WAS REVEALED AS CRAP!

You need to read, buddy.

I don't think you need to be accusing other people of not reading. You are the one who thought you knew all about Adel's scumtell, but got it wrong.

[sekinj]

So essentially, everything that's determined the way you think so far this game has been based on what Adel (who isn't your lover) has said about this "secret tell". You mistakenly assumed you knew what she was talking about, based your vote and case upon it, found out you were wrong, threw a couple of votes around, and when asked by me why you removed your vote from "sure scum" based on the fact that you were wrong about the "secret tell", you returned it to me.

Don't forget his had his vote on me for all of a couple hours in between there. I think we need a map to track crazy's crazy vote jumps.

[sekinj]

The main people that people are suspicious of: Firestarter, iceman, and crazy/farside.

If I were mod, I would DEFINITELY make fire and ice a lover pair!! But, since I'm not, I doubt that is the case (but it would be really cool!!).

Fire: making a vote without a case, not being able to defend that vote and still keeping it where it is

Ice: for believing in the crazy wagon and for not knowing that townies got a daytalk forum.

Crazy: (the wagon I'm on) for argueably making up scum tells, and then freaking out by voting self and using emotional appeals.

farside: no votes on her directly, but claimed lover of Crazy.

a comment on a less popular wagon:
Charter: I've seen it said that his meta is playing scummy, and I can certainly see that. What I don't like is his surety. He is POSITIVE when he finds scum. I just don't understand at least a kernal of self-doubt or admittance of possibly being wrong. This makes charter very easily blinded. I'm glad he posted that he was goign to look over things again.

[sekinj]

Crazy: My vote is currently on Crazy because of his scummy actions, not because of the believeability of his scumtell or his ernestness.
Scummy actions:
1. Doing a 180 in regards to the mass claim based on one post by one player
2. Auto-assuming Adel's townieness
3. Calling others scum for trying to fake knowing the tell, when he wasn' t even reading carefully enough to knwo that he wasn't thinking of the right tell
4. appeals to emotion (please gag me)
5. Voting self (unforgiveable)

However, I do understand the point that it would be dangerous for scum to make up a tell like that and try to push it. Also, if he was making it up and was scum, it seems like the other scum-lover pair on his team would be trying to stick up for him. So I will unvote, although it is very hard for me to turn a blind eye to all of those SCUMMY SCUM SCUMBUCKET actions.

Fire: Moving up my scum list fast because of HIS scummy actions... So far has not been able to defend his vote, and yet has not moved it. Although Crazy has at this point done more scummy things, I think Crazy is either very stupid scum, or a townie. So, my vote goes to the next best/worst scummy player.

Unvote
FoS: Crazy
Vote: Fire

[sekinj]

Hey wolf. Good to see you

[sekinj]

Ice: for believing in the crazy wagon and for not knowing that townies got a daytalk forum.

I wonder if sekinj (in addition to Cephrir, Erratus Apathos and Alabaska J)

can explain why people think that icemanE revealed that he didn't know that townies got a daytalking PM after they got their role pm.

i was summerizing what seemed to be people's case against him. I guess that wasn't as clear as I meant it to be. I think ice is slightly suspicious, but I don't thing he made a big mistake or scumtell or anything. It just seemed like he didn't understand who got what daytalk...

[sekinj]

I don't even need all that big case, 164 and 166 are enough for my vote now that I get it.

sekinj, I don't get why you aren't voting Iceman.

Because I didn't understand what Adel was getting at. I thought the case against Ice was based on the whole daytalk distraction and ice supposedly not knowing that townies got a lover daytalk as well. When Adel explains his case I can see the instances where ice says that everyone ONLY got the role PM, Nothing else 'special', and then when he realized that everyone got a second daytalk PM, he tried to pass it off that the daytalk PM wasn't 'special' therefore it fit into what he said early. However, many of his early posts say again and again ONLY THE ROLE PM. He would not have emphazised that if he actually meant the role PM and the other daytalk PM which according to him is standard and not special at all. However, even the daytalk PM seems at least a little special to me, since it was a rule change and added on at the last second.

I hate to jump votes so much, but after understanding the case against Ice:

Unvote
FoS: crazy, fire
Vote: Ice

[sekinj]

Additionally, crazy, unless you received some kind of special message after your role PM, the generic townie PM is available for all to see on the first page of this thread. It's the PM is received, so unless you got something extra, you're full of crap. Please vote and eliminate crazy-scum, it's clear now he's full of shite.

@ice: Why would you say this if you knew everyone got two PMs? the PM about the daytalking could EASILY be classified as a special message since it involved a rule change. you say "It's the PM is received" (which I assume means "It is the PM that was received") which is SINGULAR. If you were being honest, why did you always reference the standard PM as singular instead of plural? According to your story NOW, there were TWO standard PMs. Yet, you say "unless you got something extra, you're full of crap." But EVERYONE got something extra besides their Role PM. You were mistakenly trying to hide that you got an extra PM regarding your scum daytalk.

[sekinj]

Please raise your hand if Crazy has NOT asked you if you have read. Oh, I guess that only applies to the lurkers who arn't going to post anyway.
Crazy: I guess you're the only one reading. With the mistakes you've made it sure makes me glad that no one else is reading (according to you).

[sekinj]

YES!! I knew it!! that is Great! Props to the mod for the GREAT lover team of Fire and Ice!! nice!

[sekinj]

There's not much talking between me and my lover right now... Just good old fashion physical love happening....

[sekinj]

Lol, I could at least fake my daytalk better than you.

so you are saying it WAS faked?

[sekinj]

I mostly agree with RR on that post (551). dybeck could so easily be setting up a "I told you so" Day 2. I also don't like being called a lazy town when it's not like dybeck has contributed half as much as other people. I'm not fond of hypocrites.

[sekinj]

@Adel: You are pretty sexy, but my heart is elsewhere.

@crazy: Why do you deny me? I thought we had something special together....

Okay, I know someone is going to go nuts about me cracking jokes, but really, this game is HUGE. and I find sex amusing... so anyway.

[sekinj]

reading SSF's posts I can understand the suspicion. however, if we are basing it mostly on lurking, let's open our eyes a little:

Here a few of our lurkers:
Armix - I know, you are thinking, who? yeah, he has posted one time. he replaced someone who had posted 2 times.
DBE - Yes, adel brought attention to her by claiming she intentionally put ice at L-1. with a total of 10 posts to her name, I doubt she knew the votecount, and I really doubt voting her is going to encourage participation.
Harvey pew - 7 total posts. votes fire, then switches to crazy after pressure from ice... these look pretty scummy.
Walt - 8 posts... notice the self-congratulation after the lynch...

If we want to shine some light on these lurkers I'd like some answers from harvey pew expecially.

@harvey: Why did you switch your vote to crazy at the say-so of ice? what do you think of crazy now?

[sekinj]

Fos: harvey

[sekinj]

Although I think dybeck was being hypocritical by calling us a lazy town, I don't think he was really acting scummy. He did do some fresh scumhunting, which I believe will end up being benefiical to the town. I think is was weird though that he stayed involved after asking to be replaced.

[sekinj]

I still think we shoudl wait a few days before we mass claim. Then we can draw more parallels between people after seeing how they act and react. (look at crazy and farside for example, weird interactions before they claimed!)

Right now I do think we should be looking for associations or maybe distancing between fire/ice and some other pair. Then once we get the werewolves, we can look at the players who were scummy in others ways or too wagoning, or maybe lurking, and catch the mafia that way... I'm not sure why adel thinks it would be better or easier to start trying to find the other quad.

sorry for the multiple posts... these are all kind of different thoughts...

[sekinj]

I think alabaska was the most vocal (since he was yelling at the start)

[sekinj]

ThAdmiral = Not thinking at all or pushing lies

Adel is far from the most vocal person in this thread.

Far from? that statement seems a little far from the truth. Adel has to be in at least the top 5. Who do YOU think has been the most vocal? and what's wrong with Adel being the most vocal? He has certainly been influential.

[sekinj]

My lover is sekinj.

It's hot.

Does this mean we can get it on in the thread as well as in our daytalk? Just so you know, I'm all for exhibitionism...

[sekinj]

I think the Adel/pwn distancing case is pure crap.

Cy: would you care to post some examples of this distancing you are talking about?

I agree pwnz has been unhelpful, but maybe that is balanced by Adel being "the most vocal player" (according to some people anyway) and certainly influential to the town early on. Now, I'm not ready to declare them both pro-town, but they have certainly made themselves noticeable.

[sekinj]

During rereads, I noticed that the HP/Cerebus team seemed to offer the most defense for the iceman/fire pair. I keep reading Cerebus’s question about what started the firestarter wagon wrong, though, and I’m thinking RR is doing the same. It doesn’t seem so scummy when taken in context.

I don't see the case on AJ/dybeck/kloud as very strong other than just telling people they're wrong. I think one instance of AJ doing this was in reference to dybeck, so, that would make sense anyway. They're not high on my list.

OF and wolf - The case against Crazy is just filled with bad info. OF is taking everything out of context, from Crazy's early viewing of Adel as town, to Crazy's enlisting of Adel's support now. I think it may have been somewhat lazy for Crazy to ask Adel to push the wagon more, but I don't think there is necessarily anything scummy about it. I don't see Crazy using Adel as a crutch, as OF would have us believe.

vote: OpposedForce

btw, We should start consolidating votes. There are currently votes for both HP and cerebus, as well as Knight and Crazy.

this post is full of goodness.

That's my lover he's a smartee

I agree with neko mostly, but I find the hp/cere pair more scummy than OF. Hp's lurking and wagoning just rub me wrong, and cere doesn't help the team by defending fire/ice/penguin. I'll be looking back at these two again. Cere put up a pretty good defense to RR's case, but it may just be smoke and mirrors.

OF going after Crazy just seems like yesterday's news. Like he's just trying for the easy lynch. I don't think Crazy has been the greatest townie, but given that fire/ice were scum, it seems unlikely crazy was a buddy. of course he could be on the other scumteam, but it just doesn't seem like it.

[sekinj]

I completely understand that you can't immediately catch up, take your time. Thing is, nothing can be gained from your post since like 90% of it has already become irrelevant, why don't you wait with posting thouthts until you're finished reading through?

Are you complaining about having extra information about my early game reads?

It's not extra info. It is stuff we have already discussed. It's not going to helop anything if we drag up all the old arguements we have already been through. It confuses the current issues. If you keep reading you will see that most of that has been resolved. Maybe you should just keep notes and cross stuff off after you come to the part that answers it. THen you can post the rest.

[sekinj]

I think it is a good habit, and it shows how armix is filtering the informations as he reads.

I can't give it any credence--you'd be better off scum-hunting in the nine lynchers than the rest.

please expand and elaborate upon this idea.

look at his next post.

[sekinj]

@hp: I don't think you can take something like that back. Even if you didn't mean to say it, I agree that we need to see your thought process there.

[sekinj]

there's an all seeing eye watching you

[sekinj]

It's not that he was trying to start a wagon again, it's just the fact he was using almost entirely the same evidence as from the original wagon - most of which can be fairly dismissed as already having been explained away, or just plain bullcrap.

But the first wagon almost resulted in a lynch, and only barely fizzled. How is the evidence suddenly irrel.

Maybe you'll find that out if you keep reading. Also, it's not like you replaced in recently. You should have been keeping up with the game for a while now.

[sekinj]

Maybe you'll find that out if you keep reading. Also, it's not like you replaced in recently. You should have been keeping up with the game for a while now.

Moving into college is going to interfere with my rereading tonight or tomorrow.

Great. I hope it interfers with you posting irrelevant content as well.

[sekinj]

@armlx - great. you've gone from irrelevant content to no content. nice.

[sekinj]

@Crazy: Point taken, I saw this coming. However, there is a difference between joking and bringing up expired issues to confuse the current topics. One is neutral the other is not pro-town.

@sleepy: because he is asking the same questions and bringing up the same points we've been over a million times. If he wants to do it one big block, I really don't have a problem with that, but to bring up old stuff post after post and force the rest of us to re-read questions and answers we've already been over is not getting us anywhere. If he did it in one big block, he could answer half of his own questions along the way. I welcome armiz of anyone to bring up NEW points from Day 1, but this game is huge enough as it it without re-hashing everything we've already done.

[sekinj]

@armix: funny how I never showed up in your comments until I criticized you.

[sekinj]

Cerebus

I went back and looked at his posts. I was already suspicious of HP, so I wanted to see if his partner looked suspicious as well. The post numbers are cerebus in isolation.

Post 1: votes crazy, goes after him about the adel scumtell thing
Post 3: unvotes crazy, says he misread
Post 5: says ice is townie, votes crazy again
Post 9: “Crazy is so full of shit right now I fear for the next toilet that he encounters.”
Post 15: dilemma about crazy knowing/not knowing the scum tell
Post 16: votes fire
Post 17: says he agrees with ice
Post 18: unvotes fire
Post 20: “I think the firestarter/IcemanE lynch is the right move”
(Then on Day 2 Cerebus has spent his time trying to defend his D1 posts)

It is just amazing to me how much cere’s opinion change from post to post. Look especially at his voting patterns. Also, in this huge game he has made a total of 29 posts. Talk about active lurking. He seems to only come back to place a vote, a vote that is opposite of where ever he was previously.

Since I already suspect hp (his recent defense has not convinced me otherwise) and the above evidence on cere along with some of RR’s arguments:

Vote: cerebus

Sorry neko, my love, I will have to differ with you on this one. You can punish me for it tonight (I already have the handcuffs).

[sekinj]

unvote, vote:Cephrir

for being mafia.

this is where I think the votecount is.

kloud1516 (2)

- ThAdmiral, Erratus Apathos,
*

cerebus3 (7)

- SleepyPanda, Raging Rabbit, , sekinj, charter, Knight of Cydonia, neko2086, Crazy

Crazy (1)

- OpposedForce

sekinj(2)

- Adel, Darox

Knight of Cydonia (1)

- pwnz

Alabaska J (1)

-


Not Voting (8) - , DarlaBlueEyes, Cephrir, cerebus3, WaltWishbone, kloud1516, Alabaska J, Battle Mage, Harvey Pew

Twelve

votes to lynch.

@Adel: I'm confused. you have me listed as having two votes against me? yourself and Darox? I'm not aware of anyone voting for me, and I must have missed your post where you unvoted cephrir and voted me.

Unvote, vote: Cephrir

Adel makes a compelling point.

Cephrir is voting kloud, but aside from that it looks correct.

@Darox: again, I see you voting for cephrir, but not for me, yet you confirmed that Adel's representation of the vote count was correct?? Please clarify.

[sekinj]

Vote: HP

Still scummiest, IMHO, and I'm not happy that kloud was lynched. after HP and cere, I'd be more than happy to look at the last couple of votes on kloud, as they don't look like much more than "me too" mentality. Also: sekinj, are you going to explain that apparent fabrication of evidence? because while the rest was sound, LAL, y'know?

what? please reference a post so that I can know what you are talking about and respond accordingly.

[sekinj]

sekinj - in your PbPA of HP, you stated that he unvoted in his Post 18. He didn't. Explain?

@knight of Cydonia: Oh! My pbpa of hp, right. That would be difficult because my pbpa (post 1069) was of

cerebus's

Day 1.
Please notice the name at the top of my pbpa quoted below:

Cerebus

I went back and looked at his posts. I was already suspicious of HP, so I wanted to see if his partner looked suspicious as well. The post numbers are cerebus in isolation.

Post 1: votes crazy, goes after him about the adel scumtell thing
Post 3: unvotes crazy, says he misread
Post 5: says ice is townie, votes crazy again
Post 9: “Crazy is so full of shit right now I fear for the next toilet that he encounters.”
Post 15: dilemma about crazy knowing/not knowing the scum tell
Post 16: votes fire
Post 17: says he agrees with ice
Post 18: unvotes fire
Post 20: “I think the firestarter/IcemanE lynch is the right move”
(Then on Day 2 Cerebus has spent his time trying to defend his D1 posts)

It is just amazing to me how much cere’s opinion change from post to post. Look especially at his voting patterns. Also, in this huge game he has made a total of 29 posts. Talk about active lurking. He seems to only come back to place a vote, a vote that is opposite of where ever he was previously.

Since I already suspect hp (his recent defense has not convinced me otherwise) and the above evidence on cere along with some of RR’s arguments:

Vote: cerebus

Sorry neko, my love, I will have to differ with you on this one. You can punish me for it tonight (I already have the handcuffs).

@knight of Cydonia: Other than that, I see what you are pointing out. Cere never actually unvoted. In Post 16 he votes fire, Post 17 he says he agrees with Ice and then in Post 20 he says the fire/ice was the right move. I thought he had actually unvoted, but I was mistaken. However, my vote stays where it is because although he never said the magic words, he was still flapping in the breeze.

[sekinj]

I guess I didn't re-vote

Vote: hp

[sekinj]

harvey's recent comments (post 1213) make me glad of where my vote is. Picking random posts without even using reference numbers just isn't good play...

[sekinj]

The mod stated in the vote count that Pwnz was being replaced.

And? I dont see a rule that says he cant post in the meantime. Adel- sort it please. Or maybe you can answer the question for him from your discussion?

BM

@BM: I have to agree that your line of questioning shows you are not reading. If the mod is replacing pwnz, that means pwnz didn't pick up his first prod. What good would a second prod do?

[sekinj]

I disagree with the confirmed town agruement. confirmed stupid /= confirmed town.

[sekinj]

So cerebus's "flip flopping" consists of finding Crazy scummy until deciding his scumtell isn't one scum would have come up with, and finding Iceman slightly townish until cases against him were presented. From where I sit those are reasonable changes of mind. How are the rest of you concluding that he's scum from this?

I still want everyone who got on the cerebus wagon late yesterday to answer this.

That's odd, I could've sworn I signed up to play Mafia, not dodgeball.

Vote: charter

FoS: sekinj, KoC

@EA: I guess I didn't realize my vote was categorized as "late" so I didn't know this question was directed at me.

I’m voting for the cere/hp team because of the scumminess of both of them (demonstrated below)

HP

’s early posts are what triggered my suspicion: (post #’s refer to hp in isolation)

You are right, icemanE, I haven't been posting enough.

Firstly, my Firestarter vote looks really weak. I apologise, I don't know what I read into your posts but I can't see it today:

unvote: Firestarter

All the current voting really originated with Adel's claim of a scum-tell. Whether she has one or not it was a markedly effective ploy... certainly against Crazy and icemanE.

Adel has really pursued icemanE over his apparent confusion over the forums (fora?). icemanE comes across as desperate and

did

make a mistake; personally I think he didn't read his PM closely enough. I agree that townies know less than scum, even with lovers' daytalking forum, it is the basis of the mafia game. I'm not sure of the skew the extra forums creates but I don't think it is enormous.

Crazy initially pushed hard for mass-claiming then converted to supporting Adel, or so he thought. He has a long series of posts about the scum-tell, curtailed when Adel says his actions are nonsense in relation to her tell. To later state "I obviously did not make anything up" is a terrible lie. Then he really attacks icemanE.

As I read through the posts by icemanE and Crazy I though

both

came across very poorly.

They both tried to support Adel and their mistakes (or over-confidence?) have cost them dearly. I'm not sure it justifies a lynching as I don't really believe in scum-slips, but I do believe in townies being lynched for making a single mistake.

But, Crazy's play seems worse

so:

vote: Crazy

^Just the kind of action icemanE was hoping for when he called for more input!

To me, in this post it looks like he wants to bandwagon because he is feeling guilty about not posting enough. Therefore he unvotes fire and votes crazy (based mainly on Adel’s actions). Unvoting fire in this post only looks scummy only in retrospect since it was unknown at the time that fire/ice were lovers. Please note in bold where he says both ice and crazy are playing scummy.

The case on Fire is pretty weak once you know he's my lover - he was defending me, albeit in a horrible fashion.

I agree, but clearly no-one else does. In fact it was funny to watch the votes pile up on you

after

I had said you were probably an inno

and switched my vote to Crazy.

See in bold above. HP never said this. He said both crazy and ice were playing scummy, but voted crazy because he was slightly scummier.

Most of hp’s subsequent defenses have been “I’m town, only lynch me if you want to lynch town” or “my actions have been obviously town” well, sorry, but that’s just not good enough. We can’t read your mind and just

know

your intentions.

Cere

: (Post #’s refer to cere in isolation)

What I didn’t like about cere’s flipflopping was the given reasons.

Post 1: cere first votes crazy because cere doesn’t think crazy knows what adel’s scum tell is.
Post 3: unvotes crazy saying “nevermind, I misread your post”
Post 4: unrelated comment regarding ice
Post 5: votes crazy,

again

because crazy doesn’t know what the scum tell is…

Now, where is the analysis? He’s just voting and unvoting, flapping in the breeze. His next several posts are just one liners. Post 9 clearly demonstrates he is still sold on his Crazy vote. His post 15 just screams false delimma. He says he keeps going back and forth on Crazy’s scumminess, but to me he is just trying to sweep his voting patterns under the rug. Asks “Am I over-thinking this?” (scummy appeal to the town)

Post 16: votes firestarter based on neko’s comments. While I agree neko is pretty darn smart and funny, and cute, and everything, I’m not sure I like cere following him so blatantly.
Post 17: “I see where IcemanE is coming from. I mean, what started the firestarter wagon?”
HP seemed to have this same delimma. Here is the answer: The fire wagon started because fire voted someone from out of the blue for no reason except that that person was voting ice. Yes, that looks scummy, especially because we didn’t know fire/ice were lovers at the time. I don’t know how both cere and hp forgot about this.

Post 22: Cere backpedals regarding his Post 17. His comments make NO SENSE if you look at his actual post.
Original post questioning the fire wagon:

I see where IcemanE is coming from. I mean, what started the firestarter wagon?

Response to sp questioning him about that post:

You're asking what started the fire wagon when you were on it. Does that make a lot of sense? It looks your vote on Fire at first was a distancing attempt and your quote above was an out to allow yourself to backtrack.

uhhhhh.... no. That statement was supposed to make people go, hey, that reasoning is similar to why we think firestarter is scum, so maybe there is something there.

If anything I was supporting the firestarter wagon. (The question was rhetorical in other words, not literal.)

See in bold above. How in the world was Post 17 supposed to be rhetorical? How in the world I that SUPPORTING the fire wagon like he says in Post 22?? Major backpedal.

@EA: There you go.

[sekinj]

VC please when convenient

[sekinj]

I'm going to need to be replaced in this game. Sorry.

Wow, so you really didn't want an answer from me? I answer you and then you ask to be replaced? well before you go, please answer this: Why did you vote charter but just fos me and KoC?

[sekinj]

I can't account for Raging Rabbits voting habits.

Does anyone remember a post Adel made a while back about those tiny slips that give scum away? Yeah? See this.

I think KoC is saying that the fact that Darox feels he needs to clarify that he can't account for RR's votes is the slip?

[sekinj]

I can't believe how fast wagons form and are followed in this game. Really people, do you have any conviction at all about where you put your vote?

[sekinj]

@Crazy - don't worry. I don't think very much of you, yet I'm in the bottom half of your list. So it's not as OMGUSY as you think.

[sekinj]

@HP: The question I have for you is why do you think you made a mistake voting for Fire the first time? You say you forgot why you did it. Don't you remember that Fire made a vote against RR out of the blue with no evidence? and since we didn't even know that ice was his lover, therefore he was just tryign to deflect attention, it looks even more scummy? Is that a bad reason to vote for someone?

[sekinj]

@HP: Can you respond to this question please? I believe this is one of the only important questions that you have not addressed adequately. if this is intentional, please let me know why you believe the question is not legitimate.

@HP: The question I have for you is why do you think you made a mistake voting for Fire the first time? You say you forgot why you did it. Don't you remember that Fire made a vote against RR out of the blue with no evidence? and since we didn't even know that ice was his lover, therefore he was just tryign to deflect attention, it looks even more scummy? Is that a bad reason to vote for someone?

Thank you!

[sekinj]

It's not a haysack, it's a game you chose to replace into and I believe it's every replacement's duty to first and foremost go through the trouble of reading the thread. There are some non Crazy-related stuff in there you may find important as well, you know.

My role is to find scum. I've found it. As far as i can see, i've made a damn good start. Now, i've given my reasoning, and it's the turn of those who disagree to explain WHY.

BM

or you could whine some more. Really, how can you find scum without reading the thread?

[sekinj]

BM, the above post against crazy seems to ignore the fact Iceman later flipped town.

What game have you been playing?[/quote]
qft

[sekinj]

EBWOP:

BM, the above post against crazy seems to ignore the fact Iceman later flipped town.

What game have you been playing?

qft

[sekinj]

hey! I have an idea! let's ask the mod!

Mod: If we post our paraphrased daytalk, is it okay to include the actual and specific day, date, time, etc? Thank you!

[sekinj]

I'm fine with posting daytalk. I don't think we have decided wether to do everyone's or just suspicious people.

I suggest we take a poll. Everyone can respond with

A. all

(everyone posts their daytalk)

B. suspects only

(suspects only post daytalk when requested)

C. none of the above

(no one posts daytalk)

[sekinj]

My Poll response: A. all

[sekinj]

We've already decided on all, as far as I can tell.

we have? where? if so, that's fine. I just didn't see evidence that everyone agreed.

[sekinj]

sekinj 1 08-04-2008 12:40 AM ET (US) hello neko

neko2086 2 08-04-2008 11:04 AM ET (US) hi, we are swingers?

sekinj 3 08-04-2008 02:28 PM ET (US) yep, what do you think about claiming lovers?

neko2086 4 08-04-2008 09:47 PM ET (US) no preference on the claiming, we’ll figure out the scum either way. Do you know what Adel’s talking about?

sekinj 5 08-05-2008 04:17 PM ET (US) no, some players are saying they know and others say they don’t know.

sekinj 6 08-05-2008 04:18 PM ET (US) and since we are lovers, when are we going to have sex?

neko2086 7 08-05-2008 10:41 PM ET (US) *laughs*

sekinj 8 08-10-2008 09:33 PM ET (US) Any feelings on who is scum?

neko2086 9 08-10-2008 11:49 PM ET (US) don’t think crazy or farside are scum. I suspect firestarter and maybe ice, adel maybe but nothing substantial, I’m suspicious of A’s motives. I suspect ThAdmiral, but admittedly I do no-matter the game.

neko2086 10 08-19-2008 10:41 AM ET (US) It is funny that people think you and adel are lovers. I would be sad if you were being unfaithful. I still suspect Adel of being a werewolf. Any other thoughts?

sekinj 11 08-20-2008 03:54 PM ET (US) I’m only sleeping around to get information. I still love you.
Crazy made a comment with you in it.

sekinj 12 08-20-2008 04:41 PM ET (US) I don’t think Adel is the scum. I suspect Crazy and HP.

sekinj 13 08-20-2008 04:42 PM ET (US) it would also be good to use the daytalk more.

neko2086 14 08-20-2008 09:59 PM ET (US) the comment crazy made about me is meh. I also think the case against him is bad. Unless he makes a really big scumtell, he’s not on my suspect list. We’ll see what comes of everyone claiming

sekinj 15 08-20-2008 11:54 PM ET (US) No, I didn’t think the crazy comment had much to it, just mentioned it because I saw it before I posted here.
When you claimed why did you say “it’s” hot, are you talking about the room, or me?

sekinj 16 08-21-2008 10:23 PM ET (US) What do you think of Kloud’s case against pwnz?

sekinj 17 08-24-2008 12:12 AM ET (US) Of all the cases that are flying around, I am most convinced by the HP one pushed by RR, I’ve noticed a couple of HP’s bad posts and am going to look at it more closely. What do you think?

neko2086 18 08-24-2008 11:49 PM ET (US) Yes, I am suspicious of them as well. After them OF/wolf and then tha/dbe are at the top of my suspect list. I’m surprised people are still going after the Crazy wagon as it is still a very bad case.

neko2086 19 08-25-2008 12:13 AM ET (US) I ended up choosing to go with OF, as I believe cere’s defense was good. I don’t mind if you disagree in thread. Deadline isn’t for another week.

sekinj 20 08-27-2008 02:15 PM ET (US) Sorry I havn’t voted yet. I haven’t had the time to examine the cases thoroughly. I will try to it soon.

neko2086 21 08-29-2008 07:04 PM ET (US) Please vote someone soon. I thought you were looking at Hp? Do you still think he is suspicious? I’m about to have to get the whip out.

sekinj 22 08-30-2008 02:13 AM ET (US) Thank for the genital nudge

sekinj 23 08-31-2008 11:38 PM ET (US) Looks like the other wagon won… we’ll see what info this provides, but I’m still suspicious of HP

neko2086 24 09-01-2008 01:26 AM ET (US) People are already voting for them again, and yes, I’m still convinced they are scum.

sekinj 25 09-04-2008 02:32 PM ET (US) Lots of discussion today… I’m still sold on HP…

sekinj 26 09-07-2008 02:31 AM ET (US) Wow, lots of new wagons. I wonder why BM voted charter, but just fosed me and the other? I didn’t even know he was talking to me.

sekinj 27 09-15-2008 02:21 PM ET (US) Any thoughts?

neko2086 28 09-16-2008 09:28 AM ET (US) I think we should take a look at several different people and then compare notes. I’m very suspicious of charter

sekinj 29 09-16-2008 10:23 AM ET (US) what do you think of Thad’s voting patterns? Yeah, I think charter bears a closer look.

sekinj 30 09-16-2008 11:19 PM ET (US) What do you think of the posting daytalk discussion?

neko2086 31 09-17-2008 07:33 PM ET (US) I think it will be helpful.

sekinj 32 09-18-2008 07:12 PM ET (US) okay, I’ll start working on the paraphrase since WW just gave the word.

[sekinj]

how many do we have left that haven't posted their daytalk?

[sekinj]

Happy everyone? Now put it together. I think there's prolly one or two extra time's in Ceph's post cause I think I didn't include a few off topic posts.

Yeah, that is SO clear... thanks for playing!

[sekinj]

@Sekinj - did you just copy and past your entire daytalk thread, then paraphrase it as well?

yes. that seemed easiest. I had to clean up some spacing and formatting though.

[sekinj]

Sorry Sekinji, typo, let me reask that question. You wrote:

sekinj 1 08-04-2008 12:40 AM ET (US) hello neko

Did Destructor not make the first post in your thread?

Yeah he did. He said we were supposed to keep all talking in the quicktopic. It was 08-03-2008 09:42 PM ET (US)

The numbers must have gotten screwed up cause I pasted it into Excel first. I wasn't planning on including destructor's post since I figured everyone got it, and then I didn't really think about it when I fixed the columns to line up. So...yeah, they are all one number off. Sorry about that!

[sekinj]

@Walt: When you paste it into excel the post number goes into a seperate column. When I cut it from the QT I didn't include the text of destructor's post, just heading part accidentally. that messed me up when I was cleaning up the formating later. I used Excel so I could wipe out all my real words in one column while keeping the names, dates and post numbers. Then I went back and put in the paraphrase with the QT open beside it. I messed with the formatting like I said, and I guess I messed the post# colum up by moving it up one, but I didn't go through and re-number. *shrug* make what you want of it.

[sekinj]

@Walt: When you paste it into excel the post number goes into a seperate column. When I cut it from the QT I didn't include the text of destructor's post, just heading part accidentally. that messed me up when I was cleaning up the formating later. I used Excel so I could wipe out all my real words in one column while keeping the names, dates and post numbers. Then I went back and put in the paraphrase with the QT open beside it. I messed with the formatting like I said, and I guess I messed the post# colum up by moving it up one, but I didn't go through and re-number. *shrug* make what you want of it.

I am familar with excel, how does the post number go into a seperate column? I don't know that function. In otherwords here is how it appears in daytalk.

sekinj 1 08-04-2008 12:40 AM ET (US) hello neko

The post number (1) is after the authors name (sekinji), so if you were to post it in cell a1; Sekinj would be first followed by #1. I don't see how a seperate column would be created? I'm not saying it's a big deal, it is curious to me though.

If you paste it into Excel it automatically puts things into seperate columns, that is why I used excel. Try it and you should see what I mean.
All the words were in one column, so I could just delete that whole column instead of manually deleting each line of real discussion. But, I apparently cut and/or pasted it wrong. To get everything one off, I would have had to renumber every single one of my posts, which I didn't do. I apparently just scooted the whole column down by one when I was tryign to fix the formatting (which was messed up with spacing and background graphics). I also moved the date over, and then sorted it by date so that it would end up oldest to newest. I really can't tell you exactly what went wrong because it was just a typing error.

[sekinj]

I personally would rather do that in thread. Reactions from non-confirmed people to suspicions are a lot more important then those of a confirmed IMHO.

but if you have the opportunity to get reactions form BOTH confirmed and unconfirmed, that is even better.

mostly neko and I have disagreed on leather and/or lace... I prefer leather...

[sekinj]

@neko: I actually did put a little something extra in your dinner tonight, but the best is for dessert... But really neko baby... I think posting deliberatly confusing daytalk is just as scummy as posting none...

[sekinj]

I agree with RR that scum could've read what Crazy wrote and just as easily PM the mod. It's a nulltell. I've even tried to get someone modkilled when I was town.

To neko and sekinj, what do you think of charter ignoring to answer questions?

I think neko is sold on BM. However, I think mabye BM and CWR have just given up on the game completely. Therefore, while I think they are very suspicious for not being able to post their daytalk, the fact that charter is still active, yet is picking and choosing what he responds too is just idiotic. Also, I don't know why that lover team even bothered posting their daytalk since it is impossible to read. I just don't understand why someone would intentionally be that unhelpful if they were town. That leads me to believe they are unable to correct hte problems with their daytalk because they are scum. and now they are just acting like self-righteous offended townies, which REALLY doesn't help the town.

Although I think posting the daytalk has been beneficial to the town, I can understand why someone might disagree with it at first. But, they were voted down! The town majority decided to post daytalk. So now, it is time to get in line with the rest of the town, and post the daytalk correctly. So, if they are unwilling to do that, then they deserve ALL the suspicion they are getting! If they refuse to act like the rest of the town, I dont' see how we can assume anything but that they are scum...

[sekinj]

So, if they are unwilling to do that, then they deserve ALL the suspicion they are getting! If they refuse to act like the rest of the town, I dont' see how we can assume anything but that they are scum...

If that's the only conclusion you can come to, why are you not voting them?

well, I'm definitely considering it, but I wanted to see how this discussion developed. I also want to see if BM or CWR are goign to return.

[sekinj]

sekinj: I fixed our daytalk in 1797.

Yes, sorry about that. I forgot that was yours with the modkill and all. I don't know why you guys held out, but I am much less suspicious of you after reviewing it.

I will probably end up going with neko against BM. There is no excuse for not being able to post your daytalk.

[sekinj]

I think we shoudl vote the scummiest each day. I don't think "clearing the thread" is a noble enough cause that it can bump one pair up over another that is scummier. We can lynch the scummiest today (IMO BM), and then if charter is still the scummiest tomorrow, we can lynch him tomorrow. But I don't think we shoudl lynch a less scummy person today just because they are annoying or whatever.

vote: BM

[sekinj]

So, if they are unwilling to do that, then they deserve ALL the suspicion they are getting! If they refuse to act like the rest of the town, I dont' see how we can assume anything but that they are scum...

If that's the only conclusion you can come to, why are you not voting them?

well, I'm definitely considering it, but I wanted to see how this discussion developed. I also want to see if BM or CWR are goign to return.

What about waiting to see if BM or CW returns? Not going to wait for a prod? Replacement? A response? How is refusal to post daytalk different than refusal to answer questions? The difference between CW and charter that I can see right now is that charter has been active the entire time, while CW has not.

I had been waiting and then I waited a little more. Now, I've seen enough and I voted. I think refusal to post daytalk is scummier than refusal to answer questions, although they are both very scummy. Obviously BM/CWR feel that just posting their daytalk might incriminte. While charter/ceph just did a bad job of it in the first place and are now still whining about it.

[sekinj]

I had been waiting and then I waited a little more. Now, I've seen enough and I voted. I think refusal to post daytalk is scummier than refusal to answer questions, although they are both very scummy. Obviously BM/CWR feel that just posting their daytalk might incriminte. While charter/ceph just did a bad job of it in the first place and are now still whining about it.

And obviously charter doesn't want to answer questions because he would incriminate himself.

You don't think a person who replaced in with some 60 odd pages would have less grasp of the game than someone who's been here from the start? I rather give CW the benefit of the doubt as he might not have fully understood the situation than lynch him when there could be a chance of error. You don't agree to this either, I assume?

I think we are really just arguing over whom to lynch first, which I really don't see the point of. I think both pairs are very scummy.
I just don't understand why BM/CWR couldn't just post daytalk, even if he hasn't read the game and even if he don't understand what is going on. Just cut and paste what is there and paraphrase, either that or if it is true, come out and say their predessor's had no daytalk, but to just be mute?? At first I WAS more suspicious of charter/ceph becuase they were active, but hadn't posted daytalk correctly. But after I saw that they HAD posted daytalk, BM inched ahead of them. I still don't have any sort of defense for charter/ceph, I just think not posting daytalk at all is a worse offense.

Are you really giving BM/CWR a free ride becuase they havn't posted daytalk? after your last comment I am very curious about exactly how scummy you think BM/CWR are.

[sekinj]

Can we get a vote count please?

[sekinj]

New suspicion: neko and sekinj. It's relatively minor, though.

neko2086 4 08-04-2008 09:47 PM ET (US) no preference on the claiming, we’ll figure out the scum either way. Do you know what Adel’s talking about?

sekinj 5 08-05-2008 04:17 PM ET (US) no, some players are saying they know and others say they don’t know.

Charter just missed all my points, but oh well, because I just saw what Adel said:

because it would invalidate the secret scumtell I have that I won't announce until we have three days on the books without a lover-pair massclaim.

I believe I know what she's talking about. I don't believe that claiming would completely invalidate it, but it certainly wouldn't help...

I hope the other townies in this game will pick up on what he's saying and not reveal this secret scumtell.

(If any of you inquire about this, I will assume you are scum.)

too bad you put the warning at the bottom...

Also I'm not sure about Adel's scumtell thing. I don't understand it generally so elaboration would be helpful to why people would change their minds of a early lover mass claim.

Not a good move...

Posts by sekinj suggest that he knew what the scum-tell was. Daytalk contradicts that.

I didn't know what it was, but no, I wasn't completely up front about that in thread. I thought it was better to see how it all developed. I just thought it was dumb for him to say someone was auto scum if they inquired.

[sekinj]

EBWOP:

New suspicion: neko and sekinj. It's relatively minor, though.

neko2086 4 08-04-2008 09:47 PM ET (US) no preference on the claiming, we’ll figure out the scum either way. Do you know what Adel’s talking about?

sekinj 5 08-05-2008 04:17 PM ET (US) no, some players are saying they know and others say they don’t know.

Charter just missed all my points, but oh well, because I just saw what Adel said:

because it would invalidate the secret scumtell I have that I won't announce until we have three days on the books without a lover-pair massclaim.

I believe I know what she's talking about. I don't believe that claiming would completely invalidate it, but it certainly wouldn't help...

I hope the other townies in this game will pick up on what he's saying and not reveal this secret scumtell.

(If any of you inquire about this, I will assume you are scum.)

too bad you put the warning at the bottom...

Also I'm not sure about Adel's scumtell thing. I don't understand it generally so elaboration would be helpful to why people would change their minds of a early lover mass claim.

Not a good move...

Posts by sekinj suggest that he knew what the scum-tell was. Daytalk contradicts that.

I didn't know what it was, but no, I wasn't completely up front about that in thread. I thought it was better to see how it all developed. I just thought it was dumb for him to say someone was auto scum if they inquired.

[sekinj]

I think we shoudl vote the scummiest each day. I don't think "clearing the thread" is a noble enough cause that it can bump one pair up over another that is scummier. We can lynch the scummiest today (IMO BM), and then if charter is still the scummiest tomorrow, we can lynch him tomorrow. But I don't think we shoudl lynch a less scummy person today just because they are annoying or whatever.

vote: BM

Again, would somebody deign to explain to me why i'm being wagonned here?

BM

Post your daytalk please.

[sekinj]

I didn't know what it was, but no, I wasn't completely up front about that in thread. I thought it was better to see how it all developed. I just thought it was dumb for him to say someone was auto scum if they inquired.

I thought that "Not a good move" thing was directed at OF. And I'm wondering how you felt you could adequately discern whether OF inquiring about the tell was a good move or not, if you didn't know what it was yourself?

It was directed at OF, but it was sarcastic. as in "not a good move according to adel the master of scum telling" It didn't seem like Adel would be able to automatically know scum or not no matter what his tell was.

[sekinj]

I'm surprised you never actually commented on this, sekinj, until after the bandwagon on me had begun. If you truly didn't like Adel's assertion, why didn't you just say so then?

I didn't dis-believe that adel had a scum-tell. I thought

a) it was dumb to put the warning. if his comment was supposed to be a trap for scum, that spoiled it

b) whatever it was it couldn't be as clear cut as he thought it was since neither me nor neko knew what it was.

Therefore since his trap didn't work, and i didn't know what the tell was, I had no idea what he was trying to accomplish with it. So, I just waited to see what he was going to do with it.

I didn't comment on it later because I thinkt he whole tell thing has been over-discussed as it is.

[sekinj]

BM - if your next post isn't paraphrase daytalk, you guarantee my vote moving back to you. 'Nuff said.

and I'm not sure if he will post again anyway.

[sekinj]

@charter: why would you jsut want a yes or no and no explanation? That just seems like you are fishing to take someone out of context.

[sekinj]

@charter: why would you jsut want a yes or no and no explanation? That just seems like you are fishing to take someone out of context.

It was mostly because I'm just trying to gauge the town's (as a whole) opinion. I didn't want someone to list a bunch of exceptions or reasoning and make it all complicated. I'm not looking for the reason behind anyone's answer, and I'm not going to try and change you answer.

Well, it's just impossible for me to give a simple yes or no. I think BM is the scummiest followed by charter/ceph. If we get BM lynched today, and depending on how they confirm, I would continue discussion the next day. If ceph/charter are lynched I would probably be less likely to change my mind about BM being scum simply because he is my current #1. But there is no auto-lynch at all in my mind for tomorrow. I have people I am suspicious of and that suspicion will definitly carry over. The only way I would vote again tomorrow without more discussion is if the day ended in a modkill like last time.

third on my list is probably Darox for his recent flip. Where did that come from? @darox - can you show us posts or even paraphrased daytalk where you discussed your change of heart over any period of time?

[sekinj]

.. So... Are we at a standstill until deadline?

[sekinj]

has anyone seen neko? he didn't come home last night.... he hasn't posted in a while either here or in our daytalk... I hope he hasn't run away with some other guy.

[sekinj]

@armix: I'm sure he is around. My neko always comes back to me.

[sekinj]

ok... so we have two pairs of lover who have apparently given up... BM/CWR and charter/ceph...

BM and CWR just stopped posting.

charter/ceph just post appathetically and seem to be willing tp do just about anything to not be lynched...

That last part is actually going to convince me to go ahead and move my vote over to charter/ceph. I seems like only scum would be that desperate to not be lynched

at any cost

. I'm still suspicious of BM, but maybe they are just bored townies who didn't want ot put in the effort to paraphrase daytalk... I will continue to try to coax them out of hiding and encourage them to post their daytalk...

Vote: Charter

[sekinj]

EBWOP:

unvote, Vote: Charter

[sekinj]

charter/ceph just post appathetically and seem to be willing tp do just about anything to not be lynched...

You do realize that's a blatant contradiction, yeah?

Clarification: appathetic to actual cases, instead you are just posting crap hoping to not be lynched.

That last part is actually going to convince me to go ahead and move my vote over to charter/ceph.

Translation: "charter and Ceph are trying, so we should lynch them over the megalurker scumclaimers"

I WOULD rather lynch BM. I am more suspicious of them atm than you. However, you ARE a close second, and you and charter's recent posts have just solidified my opinion of you. I'd rather move my vote over to my 2nd suspect than sit here and twiddle my thumbs for 6 days.

I seems like only scum would be that desperate to not be lynched at any cost.

Because a townie would just give up? That doesn't make any sense.

If you had quoted it correctly you would have noticed my emphasis on AT ANY COST. Townies usually understand that they can still win if they themselves get lynched because of bad play. Town players aren't so desperate.

I'm still suspicious of BM, but maybe they are just bored townies who didn't want ot put in the effort to paraphrase daytalk... I will continue to try to coax them out of hiding and encourage them to post their daytalk...

FoS: sekinj

So you are just attacking anyone who attacks you?

[sekinj]

@ceph: i dont' see hwo I am contradiciting myself. BM is my #1, I've had my vote on him for a long time. I switched my vote to you (my #2) after nothing else developed with my #1... Yet, my #2 seems to be digging themselves into a deeper hole by admittedly doing whatever it takes to not get lynched... I DO admit the possibility that BM/CWR were jsut bored/lazy townies who didn't want to work post their daytalk. with that in mind, I will vote you today and see if or when BM's daytalk develops. I'm not letting them off scot free, not in the least. I'm going for the active threat before the inactive threat.

[sekinj]

NEKO!!!! Hey sweetie.... I've missed you... you can catch up on the thread later... why don't you take a look at the daytalk... let's just say I know how to keep myself entertained....

[sekinj]

Wow... What time zone are you guys in? I was asleep that whole time...

There are two scenerios according to the mod:

1. DBE comes back
2. another player agrees to replace

whichever occurs

first

will be the one the mod goes with. I don't see how that choice is A) up to the town (as WW implied) or B) condoning inactive players (as SP implied).

[sekinj]

crazy pointed out to the mod that toaster strudel had broken the rules, leading to his death.
That and the fact that everyone keeps saying he's confirmed town, when he's not.

hmmm... still not understanding the leap to Crazy being scum... Granted he is a tattle-tale... but I woudl have doen the same thing in any game if I had noticed it first.
And the fact that the majority of players think Crazy is town? aren't you admitting that you are going against the town on that? since the majority of players are town?

I don't think Crazy is confirmed, but I think he's probably town. Do you seriously think the above is the best case out there?

[sekinj]

wow... yes, that does look like a logical step regarding the times the mod posted the daytalk. and i DO think that BM is scum... however, knowing that I am not, I have to disagree with the next step being neko and I as scum.

However, I am glad to see the attention focusing back on BM... I'd also like to see if this means charter/ceph will start making substantive posts again.

Vote: BM

@neko: I'm sorry I ever strayed my love...

[sekinj]

wow... yes, that does look like a logical step regarding the times the mod posted the daytalk. and i DO think that BM is scum... however, knowing that I am not, I have to disagree with the next step being neko and I as scum.

How can you agree that it's logical to deduce scum from the mod's daytalk post time, then list yourself as an exclusion as if it's illogical? This is a black and white issue. There's no gray.

I'm saying that if I didn't have my role PM as evidence, I might be swayed by that arguement. However, I don't even have to consider it since I know it is false.

If you are an exception to the mod's post time, why are you so sure BM is scum from it alone and that he isn't an exception as well?

My thinking BM is scum has nothing to do with the mod's post in the daytalk. I've thougth BM was scum for a while becasue of his refusal to post daytalk in a timely fashion, and his relentless and unreasonable attack on Crazy. CWR's actions back all of that up. I only recently switched my vote OFF of BM.

[sekinj]

dang it.

Unvote, Vote: BM

undang it.

[sekinj]

i think that was an official bitch slap from the mod.

[sekinj]

There are things an ordinary, everyday and (most importantly) innocent couple talk about. You know, like how their day went, what they're going to have for dinner, plans for the weekend, who they think are vile murderers, etc., etc.

Great post Destructor, lol, I read the first line before seeing the result and thought, crap we screwed up.

Score one for the good guys.

Vote: Sekinj

Just kidding!

Unvote

Gotta run... More later.

very funny. i can't stop laughing...

[sekinj]

vote: sekinj

This is not a joke vote

but it is funny, because non-joke votes usually include reasoning.

[sekinj]

@Crazy: Did you miss this post?

Timestamps have no correlation with alignment.

[sekinj]

Why are people still looking at the timestamps when the mod said they don't mean anything? That is THE ONLY thing you guys have! once again charter/ceph are going for any wagon that isn't their own.

[sekinj]

Yeah, but if sekinj isn't the other mafia, who is? Nobody else had the same time.

*gasp* we may have to use

reasoning

to figure that out!! wow, that's a shocker.

[sekinj]

@walt - I will gladly address you other questions later tongiht as well, but I just tried the excel thing again with different data. It automatically puts it into seperate columns. When i cut and pasted the daytalk it puts name and date in Column A Cell 1 and Cell 3 respectivly, post # in Column B Cell 1 and the actual post in column C Cell 1. So the only thing I did was delete all of COlumn C and then highlight and move the the date over to the now empty column C Cell 1, and then delete the extra rows (Row 2 and 3). and last I typed up my paraphrase.

I am using MS Excel 2003.

[sekinj]

Yeah, but if sekinj isn't the other mafia, who is? Nobody else had the same time.

*gasp* we may have to use

reasoning

to figure that out!! wow, that's a shocker.

Yeah, like your reasoning, right? Lynch Crazy; he made up a scum-tell!

so, you're saying your vote is OMGUS from my DAY ONE suspicion?? I will freely admit that I was NOT the first to jump off your wagon. I dont' tend to beleive the first thing someone I suspect says... I don't see hwo that is a bad thing...

[sekinj]

neko2086 7 08-05-2008 10:41 PM ET (US) *laughs*

He dedicated an entire post to laughing?

If you notice right before that I dedicated an entire post to trying to get him to cyber with me... I also have to add that my actual wording for the post above was pretty racy, and neko's response indicated that he was not ready to foray into his first cyber-relationship. (it was more of an uncomfortable laugh for the record).

[sekinj]

Ironic that they were for posting daytalk

because we have nothing to hide... I wasn't even paying attention to the timestamp on the mod's first post for anyone's daytalk...

[sekinj]

@walt - I will gladly address you other questions later tongiht as well, but I just tried the excel thing again with different data. It automatically puts it into seperate columns. When i cut and pasted the daytalk it puts name and date in Column A Cell 1 and Cell 3 respectivly, post # in Column B Cell 1 and the actual post in column C Cell 1. So the only thing I did was delete all of COlumn C and then highlight and move the the date over to the now empty column C Cell 1, and then delete the extra rows (Row 2 and 3). and last I typed up my paraphrase.

I am using MS Excel 2003.

I just downloaded a 60 day trial from MS of the version you are using, it still does NOT work. I will explain what I did step by step, so please correct me if I am doing it wrong.

1. Open up MS 2003 spreadsheet
2. Open up daytalk
3. Copy daytalk
4. Paste onto spread sheet (I tried it two different ways)
4a. I pasted it into the spreadsheet directly which only gives me the option of putting the entire copy into one cell, wether it be a1, e1, e3, etc...
4b. I pasted it into the toolbar data box and hit enter and it put the entire copy into cell a1.

What am I doing different then you did? Also, even if the program had the ability to differentiate and seperate the data into individual cells, it would still put the entire first post from daytalk in row "A", so if you deleted the introduction post you would have deleted the post number. So you still wuld have had to have renumbered the daytalk and that is a lot of work from someone with nothing to hide.

I don't know what you are doing differently. I have asked the mod if I can show a screenshot of my excel to show you how it shows up when I cut and paste. the post number shows up by itself in column B.

sekinj 26 09-07-2008 02:31 AM ET (US) Wow, lots of new wagons. I wonder why BM voted charter, but just fosed me and the other? I didn’t even know he was talking to me.

sekinj 27 09-15-2008 02:21 PM ET (US) Any thoughts?

neko2086 28 09-16-2008 09:28 AM ET (US) I think we should take a look at several different people and then compare notes. I’m very suspicious of charter

sekinj 29 09-16-2008 10:23 AM ET (US) what do you think of Thad’s voting patterns? Yeah, I think charter bears a closer look.

BattleMage, never voted for Charter nor put an fos on Sekinj yet that is what it states in your daytalk. Was the exchange between Sekinj and Erratus what she meant to post in daytalk?

Friday Sep. 5th

So cerebus's "flip flopping" consists of finding Crazy scummy until deciding his scumtell isn't one scum would have come up with, and finding Iceman slightly townish until cases against him were presented. From where I sit those are reasonable changes of mind. How are the rest of you concluding that he's scum from this?

I still want everyone who got on the cerebus wagon late yesterday to answer this.

That's odd, I could've sworn I signed up to play Mafia, not dodgeball.

Vote: charter

FoS: sekinj, KoC

Monday Sep. 8

I'm going to need to be replaced in this game. Sorry.

Wow, so you really didn't want an answer from me? I answer you and then you ask to be replaced? well before you go, please answer this: Why did you vote charter but just fos me and KoC?

How do you mix-up Battlemage and Erratus?

because BM and EA were lovers. I'm sure I've done the same with charter/ceph.

[sekinj]

A screen cap doesn't help at all, it is just impossible for a program to take a block of text in the way it was layed out in daytalk and decipher on it's own where each word or number goes subsequently seprating it into four diffierent columns and x number of rows.

It put it in 3 columns. I had to manually move the date over. I already said that. Look, I did it. That is how Excel works. My job is in IT and I deal with this stuff all the time. If you even just make a word document with Tabs in between it will put that in seperate columns as well.

EXAMPLE:
Type this into word (substitute real tabs and enters for the words):
Mickey<tab>mouse<tab>is<tab>gay<enter>
he<tab>should<tab>be<tab>loved<enter>

then cut and paste that into Excel. It will put 'Mickey' and 'he' in COlumn A, cell1 and 2 respectively. 'mouse' and 'should' in COlumn B, 'is' and 'be' in column C and 'gay' and 'loved' in column D.

Someone else PLEASE try to cut and paste the daytalk into Excel and see that it puts it into seperate columns. I really don't want to be lynched because Walt can't work Excel.

[sekinj]

A screen cap doesn't help at all, it is just impossible for a program to take a block of text in the way it was layed out in daytalk and decipher on it's own where each word or number goes subsequently seprating it into four diffierent columns and x number of rows.

It put it in 3 columns. I had to manually move the date over. I already said that. Look, I did it. That is how Excel works. My job is in IT and I deal with this stuff all the time. If you even just make a word document with Tabs in between it will put that in seperate columns as well.

EXAMPLE:
Type this into word (substitute real tabs and enters for the words):
Mickey<tab>mouse<tab>is<tab>gay<enter>
he<tab>should<tab>be<tab>loved<enter>

then cut and paste that into Excel. It will put 'Mickey' and 'he' in COlumn A, cell1 and 2 respectively. 'mouse' and 'should' in COlumn B, 'is' and 'be' in column C and 'gay' and 'loved' in column D.

Someone else PLEASE try to cut and paste the daytalk into Excel and see that it puts it into seperate columns. I really don't want to be lynched because Walt can't work Excel.

WHERE? Patse it where? I told you exactly what I did and your only response is I don't know what you are doing differentlly? I have two options once the content is copied as i explained in 4a and 4b, so show tell me where i past. Do I paste in cell a1 or the toolbar box?

1. Open up MS 2003 spreadsheet
2. Open up daytalk
3. Copy daytalk
4. Paste onto spread sheet (I tried it two different ways)
4a. I pasted it into the spreadsheet directly which only gives me the option of putting the entire copy into one cell, wether it be a1, e1, e3, etc...
4b. I pasted it into the toolbar data box and hit enter and it put the entire copy into cell a1.

just use Ctrl+C to cut and Ctrl+V to paste.

[sekinj]

@Sekinj - Well that worked, Ctrl-V is certainly different then the two methods I used, Isn't it?

Here is what you wrote when you first explained it to me.

When I cut it from the QT I didn't include the text of destructor's post, just heading part accidentally. that messed me up when I was cleaning up the formating later.

It still would have left the "author" in cell a1 and "date" in cell a3, it does not explain how only the post number from cell b1 remained, when the data entered into the other cells were removed. It also doesn't explain how the post number for each subsequent post was off by one as they do not share an individual row or column and any subsequent insert or deletion of a row or column would have changed the formatting on the other entries. I believe you manually renumbered your daytalk and I'm not sure why you wouldn't have just said in the first places, "yes thats what I did", rather then being even a "tiny bit" defensive about it.

But, I apparently cut and/or pasted it wrong. To get everything one off, I would have had to renumber every single one of my posts, which I didn't do.

I didn't ask that question in the first place because I really gave a damn or thought it had much merit. I asked because I wanted to see how you would respond, especially from a couple who has had very little to answer to this entire game. I'm not sure what to make of it all, but it's something to consider at the least.

I manually highlighted and drug the date over to column 3 and deleted the extra rows in between posts. I told you they were off by one because I must have accidentally selected my cut wrong, or did too much moving cells around. and I'm defensive about it because I know I didn't re-number the whole list. You asked, and I told you. I didn't even realize my mistake until you pointed it out.

[sekinj]

When I typed out my daytalk, I didn't even copy & paste at all. If sekinj was scum, he could just claim that, you know. So this whole argument is pointless.

so doesn't that show that I'm NOT scum?

How many more townies can we kill for "free" in order to test a theory the MOD dis-proved?

[sekinj]

When I typed out my daytalk, I didn't even copy & paste at all. If sekinj was scum, he could just claim that, you know. So this whole argument is pointless.

so doesn't that show that I'm NOT scum?

How many more townies can we kill for "free" in order to test a theory the MOD dis-proved?

No, it shows that WWB's case against you is a null-tell.

Nice try, though.

then what is your case?

[sekinj]

@Sp - So can you quote for me your case against charter?

[sekinj]

What I don't like about charter/ceph is how they try to get anyone but themselves lynched...

[sekinj]

What I don't like about charter/ceph is how they try to get anyone but themselves lynched...

I swear I've said this before.

well, so have I, I'm just re-iterating since charter/ceph don't seem to think they've doen anything scummy.

[sekinj]

Thanks, I'll click that little quote button for you...

1) Ignoring questions
2) Using crap logic *
3) Contradictions**
4) Active lurking
5) Willingness to bandwagon

*Example:
-Concludes that armlx was on two townie lynch wagons, so he must be scum. Ignores the fact that he (charter) was on the first townie wagon, as well as expressing intent to vote for the second townie wagon.
-Uses lynched townies' suspicion as part of case. The only information you gain from confirmed townies is that they have no hidden agenda. They are just as susceptible to being incorrect.

**Example:
-Says that lynching mafia would be the best move. However, hints that he believes armlx/SP are werewolves.
-Named at least 5 pairs he believes are confirmed scum. All recently, Day 4.
-Believes Crazy/KoC are scum, yet calls KoC a sheep, as in he is town blindly following scum.

I'm sure there are more examples, but these are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

[sekinj]

Sej? is that me? interesting apprev, but I'll take it

[sekinj]

I also agree that Charter/ceph have had way too much suspicion against them for too long to be still hanging around. I have not seen a more compelling case against anyoen else than the small things that have stacked up against charter/ceph.

Vote: charter

[sekinj]

@walt - I think your suspicion against SP is justifed, but I think charter/ceph is the better lynch today. charter/ceph have been acting a lot scummier for a lot longer that SP. it may very well be that charter/ceph are mafia and SP are werewolves.

[sekinj]

I think maybe walt and SP were meant to be lovers... a love/hate relationship...

[sekinj]

People are still voting charter???

DGB is still playing???

[sekinj]

What do you think of SP crazy?

No comment. Haven't read enough into this game.

Do I even need to point out how anti-town this is? Its so great that this guy is going after my lynch and not even reading the game. That's how I like to play...

[sekinj]

Do I even need to point out how anti-town this is? Its so great that this guy is going after my lynch and not even reading the game. That's how I like to play...

Uhh, if I was voting you based on scumminess, then yeah, that would be bad... but based on the timestamp thing, I'd be voting for you regardless of how pro-town you were.

Please, all you can muster is some attempt to show that I'm playing lazily? And that even applies here

why

?

Yeah, that's all I can "muster" because you absolutely refuse to look at any evidence, which you just admitted the sentence before. It applies becuase you are SUPPOSED to be voting on scumminess and NOT TIMESTAMPS. and that comes straight from the mod, so you are trying to out-guess the mod. I'm sure it will end badly for you and especially for the town if you persist.

[sekinj]

What the hell is this TimeStamp stuff?

Not only is it trying outguess the mod, it's calling the mod a lier.

[sekinj]

yes, this definitely sucks. me and neko will now retire to our daytalk for some last moments together.

[sekinj]

@Walt - what slip with BM?

[sekinj]

@Crazy - Everyone is lynching soley on timestamp. Stop trying to pretend otherwise. You are the only one who thought I seemed scummy, and even then you thought neko was town, so you were only half convinced until the timestamp theory came around.

[sekinj]

[sekinj]

Oh and Walt - Yes, I re-numbered the posts, and then made up the Excel cover. But DANG IT, it DOES WORK!! I woudln't have spouted that cover if it didn't work.

what was the BM slip you mentioned? If you mean accidentally calling EA BM, then it was unintentional. I did the same thing in the daytalk.

oh, and it WAS pretty easy to fabricate our daytalk becuase the other team hardly talked at all, so most of that was right on real. even the sexy parts

[sekinj]

@destructor - yes, I'd like our daytalk link to be posted. Thanks for the game! I really liked my lover

[sekinj]

Why didn't they lie?

Cause I didn't think about it. Dont' worry, I felt stupid enough after it was pointed out.

[sekinj]

Great job as well to neko and sekinj. I really didn't have them pegged as the second mafia pair before the timestamps. The early bussing completely threw me off. Did you buss your partners that early because they were so inactive or did you all agree that that was the best move?

I was actually getting rather annoyed at the other team since they kept replacing out and BM was so stupid about Crazy. So, at first it was real criticizm, and then it was easy to turn it into a bus when the time was right. We had mentioned bussing early on in our daytalk, but then held off a little, then at the very first sign it was the right move we went for it. Again, it was easy after EA dissapeared because I was mad at him for not answering my question in thread OR daytalk... but then as Walt pointed out, maybe that was becasue I addressed the question to BM and then BM wouldn't read and just kept talking about Crazy...

Here is the link to our daytalk (neko I hop you don't mine): http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/W8ZBwx6QHaB7

THere are some tender moments in there, so have a heart while reading

Oh... and Walt... about the post dedicated to laughing... well I had a hard time paraphrasing *awkward silence* so I turned it into a laugh

[sekinj]

@adel - not with the timestamp thing. either them or us Probably could have won this way without the timestamp thing too. The town was goign to lynch anyone who didn't have the 10:07 timestamp.