Mini 681 - Mish Mash Mafia - THE END!

[ShadowGirl]

vote: letsbefriends

Let's be friends? ;D

[ShadowGirl]

No. Once we start deciding that, we open it up for scum to steer both kills.
Executioner decides, and should not be swayed.

Yeah, I think the person should decide on their own.

[ShadowGirl]

But then it's basically a random lynch? We don't have really any reason to validly kill anyone at this point. :/

Unless we can change our choice of who we want to kill as time goes on?

[ShadowGirl]

But then it's basically a random lynch?

I did not suggest a random lynch at all. I suggested that we play it like a normal mafia game, with a slight change in mechanics.

We don't have really any reason to validly kill anyone at this point.

No, we don't at this exact moment, but we will by the end of D1.

Sorry, I didn't understand what you meant, as you can see by the question mark.

So if we can change our 'kill target' during the course of the day, then I think this system makes sense.

[ShadowGirl]

I'm not sure that I agree with trying to defeat the "theme" part of the game...

What do you suggest, then?

Group hug!

Much better solution.

[ShadowGirl]

I don't think would partial to getting elected or whether the person they choose kills another pro-town: it still ends up in the same outcome for them. Well, the executioner does still have their right to kill whomever they wish.

But yeah, KoC I think you're vote is misplaced - you're voting for Caboose to be executioner. Perhaps we should use FoSes for whom we find scummy, and not votes? We just need to somehow distinguish between the two.

[ShadowGirl]

Yeah, after rereading I'm getting the impression that it is how it's supposed to work. Lynchee gets a vig. So, KoC's vote does make sense.

Hn, so that means today [and tonight] we would be losing a total of three people, then.

Well, I understand KoC's points, but he should have given more then a one line response.

I'm still reading it like the lynchee dies and gets a shot. :/

[ShadowGirl]

Mm, I think it's probable that it's nightless considering the role PM.

Alright, so we aren't voting for whom we think the scummiest then, if they're not getting lynched.

[ShadowGirl]

I like the above method. <3

[ShadowGirl]

Hn, so then the executioner would be more accountable for their actions, and perhaps might be a bit easier to pin scum? Bah, but then again, the chances that a townie isn't going to shoot a townie is unlike this stage.

Organization = good.

And I don't think we should have to be required to state our choice, but we can input it if we want to.

Though, I don't know much good a random election will be. There won't be as much evidence if it's random.

[ShadowGirl]

I don't trust letsbefriends as executioner... she could be trying to draw that vote by repeatedly saying she doesn't want it aka reverse psychology.

Yes, that sounds extremely plausible, so don't vote me!

Bah, that makes it even more WIFOM-y.

How was I not prodded.

Vote; Mana Ku

Any reason for the vote?

For example, 5 people participate in saying who to vote/lynch/shoot, and the executioner ignores majority vote and kills someone, who flips town. Does that mean the executioner should be killed because he killed a townie?

Did said give a logical, well thought explanation for straying for the majority? Then maybe then shouldn't be noosed, even if they are wrong.

[ShadowGirl]

For example, 5 people participate in saying who to vote/lynch/shoot, and the executioner ignores majority vote and kills someone, who flips town. Does that mean the executioner should be killed because he killed a townie?

Did said give a logical, well thought explanation for straying for the majority? Then maybe then shouldn't be noosed, even if they are wrong.

I'm just saying it's not a true majority if only a handful of people participate, so it wouldn't be exactly fair to lynch the executioner for not following it.

Ah, sorry. Bit scatterbrained at the moment.

[ShadowGirl]

Busy weekend, sorry.

I think it's more likely that Emp didn't read the pages instead of tried to get away with that line of voting. But considering if you're unsure about the way mechanics works in a theme game you should ask or see if they've been discussed in the previous pages.

Hn, I don't know if I really like the suggestion of lynching Caboose. It it doesn't go well, it doesn't seem like something that one would have to take a lot of responsibility for.


[quote=Mana_Ku]Does it matter if you're dead day 2 when you've hit scum day 1? You should do anything you can do to get scum down even if it means you're own life as you (if you're town) win when town wins. [/quote]
QFT.

Still,

Vote: sekinj

Who seems pretty level headed.[/quote]

[ShadowGirl]

If we go by majority vote to decide who will be lynched, will the outcome be any different whoever becomes the executioner?

Well, technically no [if it's a true majority] but people are funny in the way that they don't always due what you expect them to.

---

EBWOP: Tags. ><

Does it matter if you're dead day 2 when you've hit scum day 1? You should do anything you can do to get scum down even if it means you're own life as you (if you're town) win when town wins.

QFT.

[ShadowGirl]

If we go by majority vote to decide who will be lynched, will the outcome be any different whoever becomes the executioner?

Well, technically no [if it's a true majority] but people are funny in the way that they don't always due what you expect them to.

How about we just pick who we want to be lynched, a la regular mafia. If we can decide who we want to become executioner by majority vote, why not just cut the middle man and decide who to lynch as a whole, instead of granting one single person unlimited power?

I'm all for that idea, I'm just saying that things might not quite go that way.

[ShadowGirl]

What if someone were not to go with whoever we [majority] agreed on?

[ShadowGirl]

Automatically lynched the next day or whatever.

I assume if we even get to that point, it means that everyone would've already agreed to following the plan, so I see no reason they would stray at the last minute.

Regardless of the person they killed is scum or town?

[ShadowGirl]

Oh yes, I guess you are.

But explain to me why you're voting for the person who basically clarified an idea that was already on the table rather than the person who suggested the idea? I agree that it's a better idea, but I don't see why making something more clear=more town.

Because the intial suggestion of the idea seems to be WIFOM as to the person's allignment. And why doesn't making it more clear make them more town? Well, at least seem more town, anyway.

[ShadowGirl]

Can't remember whose question it is, but it was something along the lines of why sekinj's idea is not WIFOM [in relation to alignment], while Caboose's is.

Caboose's idea can lead to scum steering the lynch, while sekinj's gives town more information as everyone is needed to participate, which I think is more indicative of a townie mind.

[ShadowGirl]

I'm not attacking you Caboose, I still find you pro-town. :/ I'm stating my opinion, and I have not said that you purposely created WIFOM. A bit odd that you're so hostile over it.

Lynch/Shoot: Orangepenguin

Where on earth have you been?

[ShadowGirl]

Mod: Yeah, I'm voting sekinj.

[ShadowGirl]

Lynch: Orangepenguin

We have have absolutely no indication of his alignment, and didn't start contributing until the votes (lynch/shoots) piled on against him.

[ShadowGirl]

KoC, I cannot see how you being gone [unless you're scum] would help town.

OP is in the majority vote already, and I think your suggestion would most likely derail it instead of have him lynched, as one vote for you is one vote not for OP. [As have been said.]

[ShadowGirl]

OP, I think it would be more productive for you to post your thoughts on people, instead of moping about being [possibly] killed.

[ShadowGirl]

Waiting on OP, I suppose. I hope he realizes there's a 48 hour deadline.

[ShadowGirl]

Either sekinj or SG is such obvscum.

How so?

[ShadowGirl]

Because they want OP to shoot LBF, duh.
Althoguh I won't be surprised if he OMGUS-shoots me for offering to shoot him.

Where have I said I want LBF shot?

[ShadowGirl]

Campaign Commercial - Choose another player to reduce their defense by 10 points.

[ShadowGirl]

To clarify, is our total 100 that we have to spend on abilities? o_o
Or am I missing something?

[ShadowGirl]

I made one for convenience.

{Highest bidder}
Slander : 15 KoC
Quick Witted Riposte : 5 KoC
Obama Bomb : 41 Emp
Electoral College : 50 SSK
Rally : 19/24? Emp
Campaign Commercial : 25 SSK
Clean Campaign : 10 Caboose
Expose dark secret : 0

Once we bid, can we retract them or are they absolute?

[ShadowGirl]

You're welcome. I was in the process of making one before I saw your post.

Mod, can you give us a date of when the auction ends?

[ShadowGirl]

One week, gotcha. My bad. x_x Would that be the 23rd or...?

{Highest bidder}
Slander : 15 KoC
Quick Witted Riposte : 10 Sekinj
Obama Bomb : 41 Emp
Electoral College : 50 SSK
Rally : 19/24? Emp
Campaign Commercial : 25 SSK
Clean Campaign : 10 Caboose
Expose dark secret : 10 Sekinj

[ShadowGirl]

{Highest bidder}
Slander : 15 KoC
Quick Witted Riposte : 10 Sekinj
Obama Bomb : 41 Emp
Electoral College : 50 SSK
Rally : 19/24? Emp
Campaign Commercial : 25 SSK
Clean Campaign : 10 Caboose
//Expose dark secret : 30 Caboose

{Energy left}
KoC: 85
Sekinj: 90
Emp: 35/40
SSK: 25
Caboose: 60/90
Lord_hur: 100
Crazy: 100
ShadowGirl: 100
RestaFerma: 100

Hn, well, I won't start bidding until the mod answers, then.

[ShadowGirl]

{Highest bidder}
Slander : 15 KoC
Quick Witted Riposte : 10 Sekinj
Obama Bomb : 41 Emp
Electoral College : 50 SSK
Rally : 24 Emp
Campaign Commercial : 25 SSK
Clean Campaign : 15 KoC
//Expose dark secret : 30 Caboose

{Energy left}
KoC: 70
Sekinj: 90
Emp: 35
SSK: 25
Caboose: 70
Lord_hur: 100
Crazy: 100
ShadowGirl: 100
RestaFerma: 100

Emp... you can't lower your bid. So your current bid is 41 on Obama bomb.

So, Mod: Can you give the exact date of deadline, and clarify whether expose dark secret was given with the deadline to submit.

[ShadowGirl]

{Highest bidder}
Slander : 15 KoC
Quick Witted Riposte : 10 Sekinj
Obama Bomb : 41 Emp
Electoral College : 50 SSK
Rally : 25 RestFermata
Campaign Commercial : 25 SSK
Clean Campaign : 15 KoC
//Expose dark secret : 30 Caboose

{Energy left}
KoC: 70
Sekinj: 90
Emp: 35
SSK: 25
Caboose: 70/100 (Pending.)
Lord_hur: 100
Crazy: 100
ShadowGirl: 100
RestaFerma: 75

[ShadowGirl]

{Highest bidder}
Slander : 15 KoC
Quick Witted Riposte : 15 KoC
Obama Bomb : 41 Emp
Electoral College : 50 SSK
Rally : 25 RestFermata
Campaign Commercial : 25 SSK
Clean Campaign : 20 Caboose
//Expose dark secret : 30 Caboose

{Energy left}
KoC: 55
Sekinj: 100
Emp: 35
SSK: 25
Caboose: 50
Lord_hur: 100
Crazy: 100
ShadowGirl: 100
RestaFerma: 75

You are kind. <3

[ShadowGirl]

{Highest bidder}
Slander : 15 KoC
Quick Witted Riposte : 15 KoC
Obama Bomb : 41 Emp
Electoral College : 50 SSK
Rally : 25 RestFermata
Campaign Commercial : 25 SSK
Clean Campaign : 20 Caboose
Expose dark secret : 32 ShadowGirl

{Energy left}
KoC: 70
Sekinj: 100
Emp: 35
SSK: 25
Caboose: 50
Lord_hur: 100
Crazy: 100
ShadowGirl: 68
RestaFerma: 75

Apologies!

Okay, I bid on dark secret.

[ShadowGirl]

{Highest bidder}
Slander : 15 KoC
Quick Witted Riposte : 15 KoC
Obama Bomb : 41 Emp
Electoral College : 50 SSK
Rally : 25 RestFermata
Campaign Commercial : 25 SSK
Clean Campaign : 20 Caboose
Expose dark secret : 37 ShadowGirl

{Energy left}
KoC: 70
Sekinj: 100
Emp: 35
SSK: 25
Caboose: 50
Lord_hur: 100
Crazy: 100
ShadowGirl: 63
RestaFerma: 75

Crazy, where are you?
/Bids

[ShadowGirl]

{Highest bidder}
Slander : 21 KoC
Quick Witted Riposte : 21 KoC
Obama Bomb : 41 Emp
Electoral College : 50 SSK
Rally : 25 RestFermata
Campaign Commercial : 25 SSK
Clean Campaign : 20 Caboose
Expose dark secret : 40 Caboose

{Energy left}
KoC: 58
Sekinj: 100
Emp: 35
SSK: 25
Caboose: 40
Lord_hur: 100
Crazy: 100
ShadowGirl: 100
RestaFerma: 75

Prod on Crazy, maybe???

[ShadowGirl]

I meant Tovarish. ><
{Highest bidder}
Slander : 21 KoC
Quick Witted Riposte : 21 KoC
Obama Bomb : 41 Emp
Electoral College : 50 SSK
Rally : 25 RestFermata
Campaign Commercial : 25 SSK
Clean Campaign : 30 Sekinj
Expose dark secret : 40 Caboose

{Energy left}
KoC: 58
Sekinj: 70
Emp: 35
SSK: 25
Caboose: 60
Lord_hur: 100
Crazy: 100
ShadowGirl: 100
RestaFerma: 75

[ShadowGirl]

Sorry? I was the one who made campaign commercial? [Or are you asking something else?]

[ShadowGirl]

I/We have 'til the 28th. There's no rush to bid.

And I don't believe powers are mandatory?

[ShadowGirl]

^ What he said. o_o

[ShadowGirl]

Er, so when does the day end now?

[ShadowGirl]

The lynch will be decided through the attacking stages, as everything takes place in public the town still gain information, bandwagon etc. and the mafia can bus etc. so it's like a standard game with heal/hurt, with enough people attacking they can still defeat someone with a low defense, therefore you need to discuss moves/bidding with other people, as once the first person dies the game will go to night, if 2 or more people die at once the person who has the most negative points is lynched

[ShadowGirl]

Finally this person I have mixed feelings on. Nothing she said really came off as scummy, but I feel something missing in her post:
Shadown Girl

Missing, like what?

As for the bidding, I didn't feel that the powers outweighed the cost of them. :/

[ShadowGirl]

Mod: So, when does this phase end?

Need to do a reread.

@SSK: I think he's saying that you and farside combined have three powers.

[ShadowGirl]

I wasn't saying that was the case - that it was only four combined, I was just interpreting his sentence. :/

[ShadowGirl]

I didn't think hur was being serious about it. :/

[ShadowGirl]

Prod on KoC, Emp?

Eh, I don't feel really inclined to attack either SSK or Emp at the moment.

[ShadowGirl]

Defend: 100 energy

Because I can't for the life of me remember if there was some sort of penalty if you didn't use your energy. Though, at this point it seems that this will be the only round.

[ShadowGirl]

Sorry, sorry KoC. x_x

[ShadowGirl]

I put my all my points into defense because I think there may have been some penalty if you didn't use your points...

Anyway, I'm not quite so sure about SSK or Emp as the playing that I've seen from them (as town) seems like how they are playing now. Though, I don't remember him being quite so keen on self-preservation, just insulting other people.

[ShadowGirl]

Will post when I get home from school.

[ShadowGirl]

Looking forward to it. Your low participation makes it very had for me to assess you, and it makes you look like scum hanging back and waiting.I'd be grateful if you were a bit more offensive.

Apologies, I've had a mass of homework in the past week and a half.

Rereading, leaning towards voting lord_hur.

[ShadowGirl]

Homework + Making big post in another game = Post coming tommorow

[ShadowGirl]

Wow... That seemed like a rather rushed nomination.

Post (hopefully) after Survivor, or tommorow.

[ShadowGirl]

Save lord_hur.

Since I'm now wary of both Sekinj and KoC.

[ShadowGirl]

Save lord_hur.

Since I'm now wary of both Sekinj and KoC.

Wary ? Why ?

They seemed in a rush to save Caboose.

[ShadowGirl]

It's a gut feeling. It just seemed like it was rushed. What more do you wan?

[ShadowGirl]

It's not an attack. It's an observation.

[ShadowGirl]

Okay, I suppose it technically is. Like I said, there's nothing more to it.

[ShadowGirl]

SG - If there are player that most of the town feels are pro-town, then there is no reason not to vote them safe. This isn't regualr voting/lynching. These small session ARE going to go much faster than a whole day. PLus, yes, it is going to seem like a quick save to you when you don't have the time to check in frequently and make all these big posts you are promising. I think you are just trying to throw doubt around and confuse the town. PLease make a case if youhave one.

I would think that two votes three hours from apart would be rather quick. That's all I am saying.

Caboose, why do you seem so hostile?

[ShadowGirl]

What do you want me to say? When I'm being attacked for something that's not a scumtell it makes me mad.

You just seem rather high strung about it. I wasn't even making a big deal about it. But you are.

[ShadowGirl]

Vote/Save: Rest

She hasn't posted as much as others, but she seems to be the next townies person in my eyes.

Why would that be?

[ShadowGirl]

Examples?

[ShadowGirl]

Interesting. I'm more sure of my suspicions now. Expect (actually serious) a big post once I do a complete dissection of the thread.

[ShadowGirl]

Depends on what you mean by good. My... somewhat crazy theories? Perhaps. Up to page seven~

[ShadowGirl]

Up to page 20, but first a response:

SG is another one I'm iffy about. I know my participation D2 was sub-par, but I was confused about game mechanics and didn't want to do anything rash accidentally, whereas SG seemed to be pretending to participate by playing mod. She was posting continually but not as a player. It seemed like she was just letting everyone duke it out round her as she watched. I don't feel very comfortable with that. Lurking in plain sight is more of a scumtell than true lurking for me. I especially didn't like that she asked for prods on certain people. She was the one who needed a prod--a participation prod, not a posting prod. Not a fan at all as of D2.

Do anything rash accidentally? What was there to do that was rash? We could bid, and then we could attack. We could retract our attacks. I was posting as a player - I was bidding. You and I did nearly played the same way. You came in and bid once or twice, was outbid and let it be and considered that to be playing and I could say that you just as well wanted to let others fight amongst themselves. I think you just wanted to stay out of the spotlight. I have in no way been parading my participation in either days as good. I was being helpful in the way that I could.

[ShadowGirl]

Ha, tell me about it! I'm in five games at that moment. Reread the complete thread, fine tuning the post. I promise it will be up today or tommorow morning (noon-ish, probably.) I know I have been low in posting, but I was concentrating on a game that was near deadline (then kept having players flake... and flake... with no replacements. x_x)

[ShadowGirl]

Caboose - Sekinj - RestFermata scum team
[I have seperate sections for each player, but some may be larger due to conversations overlapping in other sections.]

---

Sekinj:

If elected, I will kill sekinj.

If elected, I will kill sekinj.

Why?!

It seems like a very frantic response, as if you have reason to be scared for your life.

Why do you oppose binding?

I don't oppose stating suspicions, but I don't think we shoudl tie the hands of the executioner either.

I just don't agree with trying to defeat the theme part of any theme game. For me it falls into the category of trying to outguess the mod.

Seeing as how there is a good chance of you being elected, you don't want very much responsibility for a town flip.

If they decided to go with the town, and a townie gets killed... well bad luck...

Same with this post.

I agree, the more poeple that participate the better. I dont' think the excutioner should be AUTO killed if they are wrong, but the situation would bear attention.

Covering all bases if one of your scum buddies turns out to be the town's preferred kill, and you decided to kill a townie instead...

Caboose – Was the first to suggest an organized way to treat today, dealt with a lot of weak attacks since his idea wasn’t chosen.

In your final post of day one giving insight to what you think of people - he is the only one you don't have an opinion on, but merely summarize what he's done.

Vote/Save: Rest

She hasn't posted as much as others, but she seems to be the next townies person in my eyes.

I believe scum are going for the perfect, and as such sekinj (perceived to be one of the more pro-town players in the game) suggests RF, and with the support of others who believe her to be town would likely follow her onto this wagon (or her own.) If RF gets saved in the second round, then the scum team are in a far better position, for only sekinj then needs to get saved and scum would win.

---

Caboose:

Most of the quotes are in other sections of this post. However,

I find it odd how hostile he is being by my and hur's comments on page 25, even though he is safe.

---

RestFermata:
Described in previous post (630) about her play on day two which seems very much like she was hanging up, and the accusation almost seems hypocritical.

How can he continue to attack Caboose now that he is cleared as town? If Caboose was mafia, the game would be over. We've entered the next voting stage, so he needs to lose the tunnel vision and look for other pairs. Even if the mod's a bastard and the game is over but we don't know it yet, we HAVE to consider Caboose town because if not, there's no point because everything we're doing is useless anyway.

Trying to completely clear him even though he's already been saved? What's the point? Also, a way to stop people from looking at connections if we assume him to be town.

---

Dead people:
Because of the mechanics of the games, it would be key for scum to keep around people who don't believe them to be scum or scummy.

At this point, I will not vote Caboose, KoC or Letsbefriends.
Caboose his idea can be seen as WIFOM to vote him.
KoC has really strange posts.
Letsbefriends is again WIFOM. Does he say he doesn't want to kill to appear pro-town or does he really mean it.

At this point from what I've seen, I'm having doubts between Sekinj and RestFermata. Therefor I'll

Vote Sekinj

as I can agree with her thoughts most of the time.

Back from my long WE. Wow you guys moved that thing fast.

After my catching up, two players stood out as towniest in my eyes : Mana_Ku for giving the most pro-town analysis, and sekinj for being the player whose ideas I agree the most with.

The two are pretty close, but I'm going to

Vote : Mana_Ku

because she came up slightly on top.

Also, seeing as you're hur's second top choice, if Mana is gone she would be in support of you.

Vote: Mana_Ku, as she seems to be the only person here with two working eyes and some brain cells left dedicated to reading comprehension.

Once again, killing off the person someone else thinks as the most pro-town.

Mana_Ku – throws the phrase “WIFOM” around too much for my taste. Not everything is wifom, and even then that doesn’t discount it completely. Other than that seems pro-town and willing to explore arguments in order to understand them, even if she doesn’t agree with them, which is a good balance.

A very positive comment, and is one of the two people you view as pro-town: the other is RF. It seems almost too convient that she's dead the following morning - with this comment it wouldn't set any suspicion onto you.

RestFermata – good discussion and analysis in 2 of 10 posts. Now that we are well into the game I would like to see her most recent longer posts continue.

---

Clear dislike for Sekinj and Caboose, and killing him off in the first night would be much too obvious - however, they both pile on a total of 120 attack on him on day two, ensuring he doesn't make it to the next round.

Unvote

I voted Mans Ku because she was the most pro-town.

Vote; Caboose

I think he's the scummiest and it looks like he has a reasonbly good scumdar.

In the game elect the executioner, the executed can make a vengeful game?

Catch up. I voted Mana Ku in my first post.

Lynch: Sekinj

For blatant misrepresenting.

In the game elect the executioner, the executed can make a vengeful game?

Catch up. I voted Mana Ku in my first post.

Lynch: Sekinj

For blatant misrepresenting.

Ha! oh that is funny. Are you REALLY saying that you read the game and THEN put your vote on Caboose becuase you thought he was scummy?? So you WANT to elect a scummy executioner? you are not making ANY sense.

How do you explain that I voted Mana Ku first?

I shouldn't of went for your lynch though.

Lynch; Caboose

---

Also, both of them (Caboose and RF) were on the wagon to elect sekinj.

sekinj (7): Mana_Ku, orangepenguin, ShadowGirl, letsbefriends, Caboose, RestFermata, Knight of Cydonia

---

Why I don't believe KoC could be part of the scum team:

I refuse to state who I would kill, because as soon as the scum know who each of us would kill, they can and more than likely will attempt to steer lynches onto town players who would kill town.

Vote Caboose

for suggesting it.

I don't believe he would try and get his scum buddy lynched on D1, as well, the response is of someone pro-town.

"I see you have found your way to the arena", says the voice over
"The rules are simple, each player has a vote, vote for the person who you wish to determine the dead person, unfortunately on the chopping board there is a gun, with a single bullet, upon the person being chosen to die another will be shot."

Wait, I misread that. I think we choose the executioner who kills someone. Then the player that dies get a kill. In that case

Unvote

.

If elected, I will bind myself to the target of Knight.

Nor would Caboose want to kill one of his scum buddies (seeing as he was a likely candidate).

In a normal game, scum would press a lynch on anyone town, just because it's Day 1, and short of an immense fail, it's fairly hard to find scum.
In this game, if people do what sekinj and caboose have been suggesting, the scum could theoretically make someone an executioner who wants to kill a pro-town player who had said they would revenge-kill another pro-town player.
If people follow sekinj and Caboose' advice to announce who they would kill if given the chance, scum could theoretically engineeer a double town kill. That's why I don't like it. I'm only repeating myself because you idiots aren't listening.

Nor would he openly oppose both of them.

I don't like how KoC said he was happy to put Caboose and sekinj in "for now"...as if he has reservations about it. News flash, KoC. You can't take it back later. And if we save the wrong person, it's over. So I think you should be pretty damn sure.

&

I find it weird that KoC flung some crap attacks at me D1 and then goes to dropping the hammer on me D3.

As I said, I think scum would be going for the perfect, and I don't believe they would start attacking of their scum buddies.
&

I'm not a fan of KoC's self-lynch vote D1 either. His attitude isn't my favorite, but I'd feel just a tad more comfortable saving him than MSSK or SG. But anyway, I obviously support a RestFermata wagon--for me, the safest idea.

Vote: RestFermata

Once again adding suspicion to him - I believe scum are going for the perfect, seeing as how two of their group (sekinj and Caboose) are either saved or nearly there. Now, being lylo, the scum only need one more townie on the wagon to save someone if they are all on it, or two townies if they do not self vote. In the case of RF, who is not held in high regard as Caboose and Sekinj, would need all the votes she can get. And I'm not a fan of her disliking KoC's self lynch vote while she is doing a self-save vote.
&

If sekinj is scum, then she's playing a really good game right now because I don't see anything scummy about her play. KoC, on the other hand, has made some scummy moves Day 1, which includes attacking me for something not scummy.

You are another player who has been perceived to be pro-town and throwing support for sekinj would possibly get people to vote along with her on RF.

---

Here's all I thought of off the top of my head from my one reread.

[ShadowGirl]

Don't have a chance to respond to it all, but I'll comment on one response.

All three of them have made blatant crap attacks on me in the course of this game.

That's what makes all scum? That's your only connection?

What do I have to gain at the moment from making a case against you when you're already saved?

[ShadowGirl]

Yes, and it's better than all the "connections" that you clumsily made.

What, how is that three of us attacked you in any way better that you were on the wagon to elect Sekinj and that of Emp's?

Trying to crack out the WIFOM?
The thing you have to gain most is to frame me as scum to make everyone ignore me and start second guessing themselves.

It's still a valid question.
Frame you... but you're already saved.

[ShadowGirl]

No time to explain my crazyness today.

@KoC: Then, who do you think is scum?

[ShadowGirl]

Two of my games are lylo. I have homework due tommorow. Response tommorow. You're welcome.

[ShadowGirl]

One response at a time:

But I take offense to your accusation that I am trying to "completely clear" Caboose. I am not so stupid that I would think that would work.

Alright, I do agree that I made a mistake in it completely clearing him, but it would at least put us into the mindset of him being town.

Yes, and you're right that I believe I need all the votes that I can get, because I and I alone know that I am a safe choice for the town, though one unlikely to be chosen. That is a nulltell. Both scum and town could find it beneficial to self-vote in my situation.

I would understand if we were nearing the third or fourth round of this day, but considering it was only the second I don't see the self-vote as necessary.

There's also the hypocrisy accusation. I will acknowledge that I did not participate D2, but it was for reasons of caution. And I see now that I was right in my fear that it would be "very easy to hammer". Empking got absolutely pummeled into the ground. I think that it only would have taken a few players to do it, and I don't think anyone was explicitly aware they were "dropping the hammer" when they attacked him. Although that's another great mask for scum to hide behind, by the way...I'll have to check that out. You can't be sure of my motives, but I can't be sure of yours, either. I'm not pleased with my own D2 actions or lack thereof, but nor am I pleased with yours.

Fair enough, I suppose. Holding back in the game or barraging Emp does seem to both be good facades for scum.

Beyond that, I guess it's best to let sekinj and Caboose defend themselves. I don't see this as a wholly honest accusation--it makes a lot of assumptions and assumptions upon assumptions, i.e. the scum are RF, sekinj, and Caboose, they are "going for the perfect" because two of them are already saved, because the scum are RF, sekinj, and Caboose--but I would like to hear from them about it.

First: Only of them is saved, not two.
Second: At the moment I don't see any other conceivable scum group, unless they all completely lurked to victory (which I don't believe would be a good tactic seeing as the mechanics of the day usually makes lurkers the easiest/safest lynch).

P.S. A self-lynch vote is much stranger than a self-save vote. I believe that KoC's self-lynch vote could have been to set up a persona that is willing to self-sacrifice, which seems more pro-town. It was also completely unnecessary--he could have just voted to lynch OP. Seems contrived. A self-save vote is different. I'm not saying it's good, but like I said, we're in LYLO. I think any pro-town player should be willing to vote or hammer themselves in this situation, especially if it looks like the wagon will shift onto another player that is of course riskier, because all other alignments are unknown. Scum would want to do the same thing, of course, so in my mind it's a nulltell. It's definitely not going to inspire anyone to buy me a bouquet of flowers, but KoC's self-lynch vote looks like he was fishing for some sort of attention.

But how often does a self lynch vote get someone positive attention versus negative attention? So far I've seen people usually jumping all over self-votes and gets them anything but the persona of self-sacrifice.

[ShadowGirl]

Say everyone did like his plan - but as scum, wouldn't he not want to die? If after gaining support he decided to retract the offer, that would make him far more scummy.

[ShadowGirl]

Happy scumday, SSK!

As well, Caboose, I will respond to you next.

SG - it seems most of your arguements come from the assumption that the scum are goign for a perfect? that seems like a terrible assumptions to make. I really don't know how or why you could ever assume something liek that.

Same answer as to RF: At the moment I don't see any other conceivable scum group, unless they all completely lurked to victory (which I don't believe would be a good tactic seeing as the mechanics of the day usually makes lurkers the easiest/safest lynch).

@SG : I actually like a couple isolated observations of yours, but seriously, that's a LOT of assumptions. Especially that "scum not attacking each other" thing : scum can bus each other you know, and nearly every game has examples of it.

I haven't see the need for them to do so this game, considering most people were for the... I don't want to say lurker, but the 'inactivity-ish' lynch, and Emp was an easy bandwagon to agree on as well.[/quote]

[ShadowGirl]

[Must leave from school, will reply to Caboose's first post when I get home from school.]

Since Emp was acting scummy yesterday, all you had to do was sit back and watch Emp get lynched and then attack the people on Emp's bandwagon the next day because they were on the wagon for Emp's lynch. Sound like the good old "I told you so" statement. Pretty good scum tactic if you ask me.

Alright, I will agree that this would be a possible tactic for scum - which also applies to RF, then. However, I won't believe that there was no scum on that wagon at all.

Wrong =/= scum. Being on the wagon for a townie lynch is not in and of itself a scumtell. But attacking others for being on a townie lynch wagon is more of a scumtell. And since most of us don't know sekinj's alignment, being on her wagon is a nulltell, unless you have some extra info.

No, but as I've said, I find it very hard to believe that there was no scum on the wagon. And considering one of the people on that wagon is dead, there is you, sekinj and lord_hur who are left who were on that wagon.

But we weren't trying to lynch sekinj, were we? We were giving her the decision to decide whom to lynch.

I'm quite annoyed at you labelling me, especially since I did nothing wrong. You're reaching for a mislynch today by misrepresenting my stance on RF, by trying to warp defensiveness into a scumtell, and by trying to warp being on a townie wagon into a scumtell.

I remember Tovarish/farside in the beginning of the game defended me on D1. Farside also called Empking out on D2. Farside turned up town. I want you to explain that one.

But it's not about what the intial reaction was, but what their opinion of you developed in. As I've said, I find it hard to believe there were no scum on the wagon considering how much of an easy lynch he was. And with farside gone, that leaves you among another two left who were on that wagon.

[ShadowGirl]

Taking a nap instead, then studying for my unit math test on trig so I don't fail. See you tommorow. -sleep-

[ShadowGirl]

Bleh, must finish an english essay and catch up on my programming homework. Haven't forgotten I need to reply to Caboose.

Also, I'll save anyone that isn't RF.

[ShadowGirl]

She allegedly thinks we have already saved 2 scum.

This.

I, personally, am fine with the plan (being that Rest and me are the final two), since that way if we haven't lost yet then at least I will be absolutely sure that RF is scum.

[ShadowGirl]

Save: lord_hur

Caboose, how has SSK been playing more erraticly then usual?

[ShadowGirl]

Anyone but SG, to be honest. Her so called "case" was basically a wide-band twist and indictment of pretty much everyone except SG.

Not so: I didn't mention SSK or lord_hur, and I didn't believe you to be scum. So no, that isn't everyone except me.

As before, I will vote anyone but RF.

---

LOL. This has to be the clumsiest attempt at vote meta that I've ever seen.

Well, a hundred twenty combined was pretty much overkill.

That was a matter of mechanics, not politics. Crap attack.

Well, I'm not condeming you for being scum based on that quote - just not scum with KoC.

Here's who I think the scumteam is:

SG - SSK - KoC

I have taken into account that is possible that the scum team could lay back, but from how D1 went : OP being the lynch, partially because he wasn't there until for the most part of that day, was the main contribution to that - so I would believe that lurking to a severe extent would not be the best idea, due to the mechanics that make it very easy to get rid of them.

[ShadowGirl]

@Sekinj: Why do you believe that Caboose could potentially be my scum partner?

[ShadowGirl]

@Sekinj: So, that possibly makes him scum - but what makes him to be my scum partner?

I think KoC is at L-1.

So,

Save: KoC

[ShadowGirl]

EBWOP:
And then:

Save: SSK

[ShadowGirl]

@Sekinj: So, that possibly makes him scum - but what makes him to be my scum partner?

I think KoC is at L-1.

So,

Save: KoC

because I am convinced that you are scum.

Save: SSK

So, because you believe I'm scum, and you believe he's scum that automatically link us? There's no other evidence of this?

As well, what do you think of my case (that included him as being scum) ?

[ShadowGirl]

So, you're saying that right after you named me to be his scum buddy he decided it was a good move to try and save me?

There's no 'everyone' : it was three people.

[ShadowGirl]

And before you say it: yeah, I suppose the statement is WIFOM. However, logically: would that be a good move for him?

[ShadowGirl]

Any reason as to why you're taking back your save?

[ShadowGirl]

ShadowGirl

sekinj

lord_hur

Knight of Cydonia

MafiaSSK

Caboose

RestFermata

Bolded people have been saved.

[ShadowGirl]

Where has he been voicing it?

[ShadowGirl]

Caboose's last two comments:

Consider yourself no longer even at the bottom of my save-list. Consider yourself lying scum, lying scum.

This I consider scummy. I don't know why but I just do.

Fos:KoC

SSK, I don't think I've ever seen you play as erratically as this.
I would narrow the field to SSK and SG.

I'm

still

waiting for SG to put some reality into her arguements.

So, if by support that means he thinks I'm scum...

@Caboose: Has your opinion on who is scum changed? [Previously you though it was me, SSK, and KoC.]

[ShadowGirl]

When have I ever said I did spectacular job in participating? [In this game and/or day two?]

[ShadowGirl]

@Caboose: What do you think of RF?

@KoC: What do you think of RF?

@Sekinj: I know. And I'm saying that what I was doing [the leaderboard] was only a miniscule amount of participation and I acknowledge that I wasn't participating very much.

[ShadowGirl]

@Sekinj:

Where has he [Caboose] been voicing it?

Mod: Updated votecount... where we stand?

[ShadowGirl]

I guess I am crazy. -shrug-

[ShadowGirl]

Good game.

I probably wouldn't have caught on to lord_hur for awhile (but probably would have figured it out if we somehow made it to the next day), but I'm dissapointed into how you completely lurked your way to victory, SSK. :/

I'm sorry as well, RF. :[ I thought you handled my case against you almost too well, but in fact you were just being a level headed townie.

[ShadowGirl]

I was starting to think it near the end as well, but I thought nothing would seem worse then voting RF or myself.

[ShadowGirl]

I probably should have caught onto it - every other post you were saying SSK was at 2.