Mini 681 - Mish Mash Mafia - THE END!

[sekinj]

And about MafiaSSK : my heart nearly stopped when I say him seemingly posting more than one line, then I realized that he just made a mistake with quotes.... Seriously, I have no idea how to handle this : how do you determine whether a person is scum or not if he is not playing ?

Lol! Same here! I thought he was admitting that him, SG and KoC were scum!

[RestFermata]

I hate stuff like this: "Oh, just ignore X. He

always

acts anti-town. He did so in game Y, was lynched, and flipped town. So now we just let him get away with whatever the hell he wants." You run the risk of making this game incredibly easy for the scum. I'm definitely not going to be casting a save vote for MafiaSSK anytime soon, that's for sure.

[lord_hur]

I hate stuff like this: "Oh, just ignore X. He

always

acts anti-town. He did so in game Y, was lynched, and flipped town. So now we just let him get away with whatever the hell he wants." You run the risk of making this game incredibly easy for the scum. I'm definitely not going to be casting a save vote for MafiaSSK anytime soon, that's for sure.

Logically, as I have no idea how to assess him, I should place MafiaSSK at exact neutral (between those I think are more town, and those I think are on the scummy side), so he would not be my last voted. Problem is, I hate this kind of play, so I think I will not act logically in this one case.

[ShadowGirl]

One response at a time:

But I take offense to your accusation that I am trying to "completely clear" Caboose. I am not so stupid that I would think that would work.

Alright, I do agree that I made a mistake in it completely clearing him, but it would at least put us into the mindset of him being town.

Yes, and you're right that I believe I need all the votes that I can get, because I and I alone know that I am a safe choice for the town, though one unlikely to be chosen. That is a nulltell. Both scum and town could find it beneficial to self-vote in my situation.

I would understand if we were nearing the third or fourth round of this day, but considering it was only the second I don't see the self-vote as necessary.

There's also the hypocrisy accusation. I will acknowledge that I did not participate D2, but it was for reasons of caution. And I see now that I was right in my fear that it would be "very easy to hammer". Empking got absolutely pummeled into the ground. I think that it only would have taken a few players to do it, and I don't think anyone was explicitly aware they were "dropping the hammer" when they attacked him. Although that's another great mask for scum to hide behind, by the way...I'll have to check that out. You can't be sure of my motives, but I can't be sure of yours, either. I'm not pleased with my own D2 actions or lack thereof, but nor am I pleased with yours.

Fair enough, I suppose. Holding back in the game or barraging Emp does seem to both be good facades for scum.

Beyond that, I guess it's best to let sekinj and Caboose defend themselves. I don't see this as a wholly honest accusation--it makes a lot of assumptions and assumptions upon assumptions, i.e. the scum are RF, sekinj, and Caboose, they are "going for the perfect" because two of them are already saved, because the scum are RF, sekinj, and Caboose--but I would like to hear from them about it.

First: Only of them is saved, not two.
Second: At the moment I don't see any other conceivable scum group, unless they all completely lurked to victory (which I don't believe would be a good tactic seeing as the mechanics of the day usually makes lurkers the easiest/safest lynch).

P.S. A self-lynch vote is much stranger than a self-save vote. I believe that KoC's self-lynch vote could have been to set up a persona that is willing to self-sacrifice, which seems more pro-town. It was also completely unnecessary--he could have just voted to lynch OP. Seems contrived. A self-save vote is different. I'm not saying it's good, but like I said, we're in LYLO. I think any pro-town player should be willing to vote or hammer themselves in this situation, especially if it looks like the wagon will shift onto another player that is of course riskier, because all other alignments are unknown. Scum would want to do the same thing, of course, so in my mind it's a nulltell. It's definitely not going to inspire anyone to buy me a bouquet of flowers, but KoC's self-lynch vote looks like he was fishing for some sort of attention.

But how often does a self lynch vote get someone positive attention versus negative attention? So far I've seen people usually jumping all over self-votes and gets them anything but the persona of self-sacrifice.

[RestFermata]

I'm not saying it's an effective strategy. My point is there was absolutely no good reason for KoC to make that self-lynch vote. I think he must have had some sort of ulterior motives, successful or not, because he could have achieved the same result by voting to lynch OP.

[RestFermata]

EBWOP: The same result...without dying.

[ShadowGirl]

Say everyone did like his plan - but as scum, wouldn't he not want to die? If after gaining support he decided to retract the offer, that would make him far more scummy.

[MafiaSSK]

I hate stuff like this: "Oh, just ignore X. He

always

acts anti-town. He did so in game Y, was lynched, and flipped town. So now we just let him get away with whatever the hell he wants." You run the risk of making this game incredibly easy for the scum. I'm definitely not going to be casting a save vote for MafiaSSK anytime soon, that's for sure.

So you're saying that you hate meta?

[MafiaSSK]

I hate stuff like this: "Oh, just ignore X. He

always

acts anti-town. He did so in game Y, was lynched, and flipped town. So now we just let him get away with whatever the hell he wants." You run the risk of making this game incredibly easy for the scum. I'm definitely not going to be casting a save vote for MafiaSSK anytime soon, that's for sure.

Logically, as I have no idea how to assess him, I should place MafiaSSK at exact neutral (between those I think are more town, and those I think are on the scummy side), so he would not be my last voted. Problem is, I hate this kind of play, so I think I will not act logically in this one case.

Is it because I'm playing as I usually would without any change to my meta?

[lord_hur]

I hate stuff like this: "Oh, just ignore X. He

always

acts anti-town. He did so in game Y, was lynched, and flipped town. So now we just let him get away with whatever the hell he wants." You run the risk of making this game incredibly easy for the scum. I'm definitely not going to be casting a save vote for MafiaSSK anytime soon, that's for sure.

Logically, as I have no idea how to assess him, I should place MafiaSSK at exact neutral (between those I think are more town, and those I think are on the scummy side), so he would not be my last voted. Problem is, I hate this kind of play, so I think I will not act logically in this one case.

Is it because I'm playing as I usually would without any change to my meta?

No, meta cannot help in any way in this case.

[RestFermata]

No, I don't hate meta. I just hate people using meta as an excuse. ESPECIALLY when they use it as an excuse to other people. It just makes the game unfun.

[lord_hur]

Bleh, no more activity? What's up, activity looked good till now...

Ok, well, enough with hesitations. sekinj has scored more town vibes with me than any other player. That voting right with KoC two times looks not so good after a partial reread (as SG said, I must admit there's not much evidence of them being scum pals other than that), and she responded quite well to attacks.

Also, I cannot picture myself voting her after MafiaSSK, RF or even KoC.

So

vote : sekinj

[MafiaSSK]

I hate stuff like this: "Oh, just ignore X. He

always

acts anti-town. He did so in game Y, was lynched, and flipped town. So now we just let him get away with whatever the hell he wants." You run the risk of making this game incredibly easy for the scum. I'm definitely not going to be casting a save vote for MafiaSSK anytime soon, that's for sure.

Logically, as I have no idea how to assess him, I should place MafiaSSK at exact neutral (between those I think are more town, and those I think are on the scummy side), so he would not be my last voted. Problem is, I hate this kind of play, so I think I will not act logically in this one case.

Is it because I'm playing as I usually would without any change to my meta?

No, meta cannot help in any way in this case.

Why?

[lord_hur]

I hate stuff like this: "Oh, just ignore X. He

always

acts anti-town. He did so in game Y, was lynched, and flipped town. So now we just let him get away with whatever the hell he wants." You run the risk of making this game incredibly easy for the scum. I'm definitely not going to be casting a save vote for MafiaSSK anytime soon, that's for sure.

Logically, as I have no idea how to assess him, I should place MafiaSSK at exact neutral (between those I think are more town, and those I think are on the scummy side), so he would not be my last voted. Problem is, I hate this kind of play, so I think I will not act logically in this one case.

Is it because I'm playing as I usually would without any change to my meta?

No, meta cannot help in any way in this case.

Why?

Because your participation is insignificant (in my opinion at least), so there's no way to discern any variation in your play that could be specific to you playing town, or you playing scum.

[ShadowGirl]

Happy scumday, SSK!

As well, Caboose, I will respond to you next.

SG - it seems most of your arguements come from the assumption that the scum are goign for a perfect? that seems like a terrible assumptions to make. I really don't know how or why you could ever assume something liek that.

Same answer as to RF: At the moment I don't see any other conceivable scum group, unless they all completely lurked to victory (which I don't believe would be a good tactic seeing as the mechanics of the day usually makes lurkers the easiest/safest lynch).

@SG : I actually like a couple isolated observations of yours, but seriously, that's a LOT of assumptions. Especially that "scum not attacking each other" thing : scum can bus each other you know, and nearly every game has examples of it.

I haven't see the need for them to do so this game, considering most people were for the... I don't want to say lurker, but the 'inactivity-ish' lynch, and Emp was an easy bandwagon to agree on as well.[/quote]

[MafiaSSK]

I hate stuff like this: "Oh, just ignore X. He

always

acts anti-town. He did so in game Y, was lynched, and flipped town. So now we just let him get away with whatever the hell he wants." You run the risk of making this game incredibly easy for the scum. I'm definitely not going to be casting a save vote for MafiaSSK anytime soon, that's for sure.

Logically, as I have no idea how to assess him, I should place MafiaSSK at exact neutral (between those I think are more town, and those I think are on the scummy side), so he would not be my last voted. Problem is, I hate this kind of play, so I think I will not act logically in this one case.

Is it because I'm playing as I usually would without any change to my meta?

No, meta cannot help in any way in this case.

Why?

Because your participation is insignificant (in my opinion at least), so there's no way to discern any variation in your play that could be specific to you playing town, or you playing scum.

Except for the fact that I'm increasing my participation/

[sekinj]

Glad to hear you are increasing you participation SSK!

yeah, this game is pretty slow...

Mod: Can we get a safe count?

[Max]

Indeed You May

[Max]

Safe Count

sekinj (3): KoC, MSSK, Lord_Hur,
RestFermata (2): RestFermata, Sekinj

Lord_Hur (1): Shadow Girl,

Not Voting: Caboose

[RestFermata]

So sekinj is at Save-1? I'm cool with putting her through for the reasons I mentioned before.

Unvote, vote sekinj

[ShadowGirl]

[Must leave from school, will reply to Caboose's first post when I get home from school.]

Since Emp was acting scummy yesterday, all you had to do was sit back and watch Emp get lynched and then attack the people on Emp's bandwagon the next day because they were on the wagon for Emp's lynch. Sound like the good old "I told you so" statement. Pretty good scum tactic if you ask me.

Alright, I will agree that this would be a possible tactic for scum - which also applies to RF, then. However, I won't believe that there was no scum on that wagon at all.

Wrong =/= scum. Being on the wagon for a townie lynch is not in and of itself a scumtell. But attacking others for being on a townie lynch wagon is more of a scumtell. And since most of us don't know sekinj's alignment, being on her wagon is a nulltell, unless you have some extra info.

No, but as I've said, I find it very hard to believe that there was no scum on the wagon. And considering one of the people on that wagon is dead, there is you, sekinj and lord_hur who are left who were on that wagon.

But we weren't trying to lynch sekinj, were we? We were giving her the decision to decide whom to lynch.

I'm quite annoyed at you labelling me, especially since I did nothing wrong. You're reaching for a mislynch today by misrepresenting my stance on RF, by trying to warp defensiveness into a scumtell, and by trying to warp being on a townie wagon into a scumtell.

I remember Tovarish/farside in the beginning of the game defended me on D1. Farside also called Empking out on D2. Farside turned up town. I want you to explain that one.

But it's not about what the intial reaction was, but what their opinion of you developed in. As I've said, I find it hard to believe there were no scum on the wagon considering how much of an easy lynch he was. And with farside gone, that leaves you among another two left who were on that wagon.

[Knight of Cydonia]

So, sekinj is safe. Goodie.

[lord_hur]

So, sekinj is safe. Goodie.

What do you mean with that "Goodie" ?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Precisely what I said. Appreciate the attempt to twist, though.

[ShadowGirl]

Taking a nap instead, then studying for my unit math test on trig so I don't fail. See you tommorow. -sleep-