Mini Normal 2200 | Game Over

[Something_Smart]

Twelve million, six hundred forty-four thousand, four hundred forty-second post.

[Something_Smart]

Damn.

[Something_Smart]

I tried so hard to get that gag right that I lost first post, and I didn't even get it right

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Something_Smart

I accept this fate.

[Something_Smart]

Sorry 'm late, was sleeping.

Goddammit. It took me way too long to find the other account you played with me under.

[Something_Smart]

i like the way he's being chill, and his repated

claiming like this

while probably fake feels kinda townie to me

I'm skeptical of that second one.

[Something_Smart]

Oh god who is scum this game

performative

pErFoRmAtIvE

[Something_Smart]

What's up, SS? How's Lake Valor?

Lake Valor is beautiful this time of year.

[Something_Smart]

Given the odds of any random alt being Hectic, he's probably one of them. I know with reasonable confidence another alt Day went by, and that alt didn't feel very Hectic-ish, but I could be wrong there.

[Something_Smart]

Was I in that?

You were, yes.

[Something_Smart]

What exactly is Ydrasse doing here that's similar to Hectic v FL?

[Something_Smart]

It is mildly insane that you think she would replicate behaviour from a game she just lost where it’s only utility would be negated by the presence of people from that game in this one

It is much less insane if that behavior is also something she has done or clearly would do as town.

[Something_Smart]

@S_S, no it would still be foolish to do it as scum right after doing it in front of someone who caught you for it and knows you just did that as scum

That's definitely not true when it comes to extremely ordinary behaviors that people do every game. Like, hey look, I'm playing devil's advocate. I did that the last time I was scum against you, wouldn't it be foolish for me to do it here as scum? No, because it's what I always do.

There probably are times where it is true, especially for more self-conscious players, but this seems pretty typical of her personality which makes me doubt it in this case.

[Something_Smart]

When someone makes a bad reasons on you when you are a villager, you are angry because you were acting that way to be villagery.

Eh?

[Something_Smart]

It is common to receive suspicion for the habits you only make when you draw a villager card. It makes a special type of frustrated that you can see in the spirit of the posts

Maybe, but it's not like most townies do things specifically to be towny; they just try to advance the town wincon. And I think that this same kind of righteous indignation can come from scum who think that they

would

have done what they did as town.

[Something_Smart]

Are you guys quoting something?

[Something_Smart]

I don't just lolbus out of the blue, there's usually some reason for it

City That Never Sleeps begs to differ :3

[Something_Smart]

I feel like it's within your scumrange, if not exactly the most likely thing you'd do.

[Something_Smart]

skitter, why is this important to argue?

everything

is important to argue.

[Something_Smart]

Why didn't you capitalize 'everything' in this sentence?

I don't know, it looked aesthetically nicer. I feel like capitalizing implies more deliberation while not capitalizing implies spontaneity, so I tend to mix them both depending on what I'm trying to convey. Perhaps other people don't perceive it that way, but I do.

[Something_Smart]

Do you think this extends to the use of periods and punctuation?

Yeah, I would think so. Omitting a period in a single-sentence lowercase paragraph usually denotes snarkiness and/or interruption, while omitting the closing period in a multi-sentence paragraph means... that the comment is incomplete or unconfident, I guess? I'm not entirely sure.

[Something_Smart]

Hey SS, you have experience of Suji as both alignments, right?

Nominally, yes, but I don't really remember much about how they played, other than that they were pretty robotic-sounding across the board.

[Something_Smart]

That doesn't seem like a nice thing to say.

Wasn't meant to be insulting. They just have a formal, unemotional, and logic-heavy playstyle that's hard to get a bead on.

[Something_Smart]

it sounds too in-depth to be faked if coming from scum.

Why would it have to be faked if I'm scum? This is just how I think, and the reasoning isn't even specific to this game.

[Something_Smart]

cuz ali is scum lol

Does Ali not have bad takes as town?

[Something_Smart]

IN NO FANTASY WORLD IS THAT A LOGICAL THOUGHT PROGRESSION GOING ON IN YOUR HEAD.

Right, and this is Alisae, a person known for being careful and deliberate and favoring logic over emotion all the time.

[Something_Smart]

Why can't Pooky be wrong also be town instead of 'just scum'?

You think this occurs to town-Alisae but doesn't occur to scum-Alisae trying to emulate their town thought processes?

[Something_Smart]

Scum!Alisae believes in pushing scum role objectives.

Alisae, is this true?

It seems pretty hard to believe to me that scum-Alisae wouldn't even attempt to appear like they would as town, especially this early in the game when it's not at all clear what role objectives actually help them.

[Something_Smart]

i'm actually p sure ss was arguing *against* your case here, not for it

I was, and I thought Pooky was being sarcastic back by pretending to miss my sarcasm.

[Something_Smart]

glad I don't have to actually read the case to know that it's just pooky picking the events that sound the worst.

I mean isn't that what a scumcase always is...?

[Something_Smart]

As scum I don't emulate my town thought processes because I'm not playing town.

Okay but like you're still trying to look town. So to some extent you still have to do things that you think would appear town, even if you wouldn't do them as town per se.

[Something_Smart]

Yes I know how to play to people's expectations of me.

What do you think of Day's implication that you wouldn't be so sure on Pooky as town, then? Would you have shown more doubt as scum?

[Something_Smart]

Wasn't SS really good at reading this player?

No?

[Something_Smart]

I thought for some reason that historically you've been good at reading them

Luca kinda implied that by pointing out that I've played with Suji as both alignments. I have, in fact, played exactly two games with Suji, one of which I replaced into really late and the other of which Suji was executed D1 with my vote, but iirc it was mostly a compromise vote and I didn't especially scumread them.

[Something_Smart]

ali my reads overlap with yours a fair amt actually

Doesn't Ali have almost everyone as town? So that's hardly surprising...

[Something_Smart]

That's kinda fair

Which reads overlapped?

[Something_Smart]

Anyone else reading this as one of the towniest posts in the thread?

What's towny about it?

[Something_Smart]

Suji has not posted since day start and that kinda killed my townlean.

Why?

[Something_Smart]

Luca, what do you think about 1004?

[Something_Smart]

In the game with Suji, Skitter and SS.

Oh, I completely forgot Suji was in that game.

I'm pretty sure I had them as null the entire game.

[Something_Smart]

I can forgive a little defensiveness, but that's not really why I'm SR'ing him

I take it that you think he'd make that post as either alignment?

I ask because it reads as pretty genuine to me. I feel like he would be hesitant to draw such a strong parallel to that game as scum, knowing that his play wouldn't look the same. But I don't know Norwee super well, so that may or may not be accurate.

[Something_Smart]

I believe his frustration is real, but that doesn't make it Townie.

But his frustration is in being inaccurately scumread by someone who can supposedly read him well. If that's real, he would necessarily be town.

[Something_Smart]

I actually feel a little bad for Norwee as it must suck being caught like this so easily, but I can't help but strongly push my SR

Yeah, I mean, this is the alternative. Maybe it's semantics, but I feel like if this were the case, I wouldn't call his frustration "real", because he'd actually be frustrated about something else.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah I addressed this in my next post

He may be frustrated, but it wouldn't be with you? I'm not sure it would manifest in the same way. Because it would be more "oh shit he caught me, better make sure other people don't buy it" rather than "why is he scumreading me? I'll show him, look at how I resisted pressure in TM"

[Something_Smart]

Especially if he thinks I'm not SR'ing him for good reasons

This is a good point.

[Something_Smart]

I think my overall conclusion from this is that he's slightly +town. I still feel like the TM comparison is more likely to come from town, but I'll take your word that he might do it as scum.

[Something_Smart]

Uh, basically nil.

I feel like Alisae pushing hard while admitting they push hard as scum is slightly +scum but not by much.

You are somewhat +town because I feel like you calling Norwee scum here doesn't work out for you unless you are S/S, which seems unlikely.

Fark maybe town? I thought he said something I liked.

I liked Pooky's push on Alisae but I'm pretty sure he's perfectly able to do that as scum.

[Something_Smart]

Farkran - Regularly engaging with stuff. 558 and 571 are actually town-indicative for Farkran for

reasons

, believe it or not.

I must have missed 571 the first time around. It wasn't the Fark post that I was thinking of when I said he was towny, but I agree that it is towny.

[Something_Smart]

Nah, I’ve played with suji before and don’t think this is his scumgame

What's the difference?

[Something_Smart]

@S_S I would prefer not to elaborate on that

Fine

Can you at least give a confidence level?

[Something_Smart]

I didn't like some things about Smart's questionings and saying and I can't put my finger on it but they were like too easy?

Easy as in, the answers were obvious, or what?

[Something_Smart]

Well, I happen to dislike it when people go "I townread X but they haven't done anything towny lately so that townread is disappearing", but there are situations where it's justified. I wanted to hear if there was something specific about Suji's absence made Norwee weaken the read, or if it was just the read getting stale in general (which I would object to).

And he didn't answer the question, which can make it look like it wasn't going anywhere. Norwee, since it's been brought back up, you want to answer it now?

[Something_Smart]

I wanted to hear if there was something specific about Suji's absence

that

made Norwee weaken the read

EBWOP

[Something_Smart]

give me an example of how it can justify

Well, the main proper application of that read in my mind is if everyone else has done towny/productive things, so that rather than the read actually decaying, it's just the average shifting upward.

[Something_Smart]

it's not a good look

Isn't it?

That sure seems like > rand town to me, at least in a vacuum.

[Something_Smart]

which actually implies she is town here lol

Fwiw, I have definitely seen scum-skitter be scumread fairly widely. The red flag is if she's constantly avoiding pressure despite a lot of people saying she might be scum.

[Something_Smart]

Oh - that’s embarrassing. Usually it doesn’t leave a message.

Poor taste joke, because people might not realize it's a joke.

[Something_Smart]

Actually my question is why would i wk skitter as scum in the first place

Because WK'ing is often a good strategy? Why wouldn't you?

[Something_Smart]

Is SS being given a day pass?

Not to my knowledge?

[Something_Smart]

that's known as seeding doubt without commitment.

build the wagon without being on it,

then soft defend her with WK

best result is skitt!town gets elimmed today while he is "against" it

helps him seize thread control d2.

I mean, that's a possible, if somewhat unlikely, scum plan. Why do you think this is more likely than him just being conflicted?

Especially since he must know that a pretty sizable group of people are going to try to block a D1 skitter execution unless she's incredibly scummy.

[Something_Smart]

they feel so lost and not in a scummy way.

How so

[Something_Smart]

I refuse to believe Mena would just be this frozen as scum unless someone has evidence that states the contrary so...

Idk I feel like he's about as likely to be this frozen as scum as as town? (There is no non-awful way to word that, my apologies)

[Something_Smart]

This is nothing to do with alignment

Well it does. You're definitely more likely to be passionate as town.

[Something_Smart]

Stating one of us is scum with no other reasoning.
Yeah... Mena scum.

That's pretty much exactly how I would expect town-him to respond to that

[Something_Smart]

I think that Norway post is towny though unless Menalque is scum.

[Something_Smart]

Also is it just me or has SS fallen off a cliff?

It's okay I climbed back up it.

[Something_Smart]

What?

1586 is probably overkill to make as scum pushing a townie. But it's more reasonable if you're bussing.

[Something_Smart]

My scumgame is still bad. I've become harder to read because my towngame has gotten worse.

[Something_Smart]

what happened?

I don't know, probably motivation?

[Something_Smart]

ss what opinions do u have atm

My townreads are uh Luca, Fark, Norwee, Pooky? I think I have a pretty bad track record at reading Pooky though so that one should be taken with a grain of salt. Maybe Day as well, though maybe I just feel more positively toward the Day slot because I'm more confident it's Hectic.

[Something_Smart]

Spoiler:

sorry to hear about your situation, and I hope everything's all right, but at least your meme game is still on point

[Something_Smart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLa9eO3oNsw - showbiz

yesss

muse rocks, and if you're looking for emo music pretty much that whole album will suffice.

[Something_Smart]

I still do on Discord.

[Something_Smart]

i really doubt scum skitter is WKing Mena because she was very adamantly against his elim.

I doubt scum-skitter thinks she can do anything other than hard defend town-Menalque without him getting on her ass.

[Something_Smart]

i also want to say (again) that i think that posting in an intentionally opaque fashion after other people have said it's hard to parse is scummy, even if it's a gimmick

meh, maybe slightly

[Something_Smart]

ss can i interest you in voting lucy?

Uh maybe?

I'd like to give Day the benefit of the doubt, though I agree that it's pretty silly to be a secret alt and have a meta read on another secret alt and expect people to actually listen to that.

I also kinda want to hear Lucy weigh in on the recent discussion about her.

[Something_Smart]

i came to a revelation recently that showbiz is definitely top 3 best muse albums imo and even though its not nearly as good as like, absolution, i like it as much because of how raw and emotional and unpolished it is

I wouldn't call it top 3, because there's some pretty stiff competition there, and musically it's not especially diverse. But it has a lot of banging tracks and the unpolishedness definitely gives it a unique sound.

[Something_Smart]

Did he? Who here would lolhammer?

[Something_Smart]

The absence of a spectacular mural of Mena and skitter sorting or attempting to sort eachother by this point seems scum indicative for the pair.

it's still pretty early, no? this doesn't seem like a thing that would necessarily happen on D1.

[Something_Smart]

Well now I should probably reread Lucy's posts knowing who she is

[Something_Smart]

Lucy, I do want to know why you thought my questions were easy, because now I know that you know me pretty well and I think they've been pretty average.

[Something_Smart]

I didn't really notice a gimmick, unless you mean the "village" stuff.

[Something_Smart]

I would say that I apply personality knowledge as a lens through which to read you, but not meta specifically. I don't recall having ever played against scum-you?

[Something_Smart]

Skitter be having that Flavour Leaf effect where they can be scum and people will even admit they might be scum, but nobody will eliminate them because they are too charismatic to die early.

No it's because if she's town she might solve the goddamn game if given a few days.

[Something_Smart]

farkran isnt even playing in the same reality as us.

Perhaps, but he has been known to do this as town.

[Something_Smart]

I still believe 1 scum in mena/skit

Well surely if there were exactly one it'd be skitter, no?

[Something_Smart]

do more, mena

[Something_Smart]

I mean they're both important.

[Something_Smart]

Let me rephrase: they're both important to winning the game.

[Something_Smart]

ss what are your thoughts on recent happenings (i.e. me, day, lucy, farkran, mena, etc)

Something along the lines of "I'm staying the hell out of that"

I read up while half-asleep this morning, so I don't have a good grasp of what exactly people were arguing, and I don't feel especially inclined to read it again.

Wanna point me to a specific page or two to look at?

[Something_Smart]

That's pretty disrespectful to skitter.

[Something_Smart]

Putting her that high above Menalque. Implies that you think there's a decent chance she's town and wrong about him.

[Something_Smart]

i mean i thought it was weird to have me that high and mena that low at the same time but i'm not sure 'disrespectful' is the word i'd go with here tbh

Maybe not, but I see it as an undeserved insult to your ability to read Menalque.

[Something_Smart]

this feels a bit like shit-stirring.

It was probably needlessly harsh, you're right.

Bottom line was, I think skitter should be no more than a little bit higher than Menalque.

[Something_Smart]

are you saying Day should be thinking all of skitter's strong reads are correct?

Contingent on skitter being town, her reads are pretty likely correct, but especially on Menalque.

[Something_Smart]

I don't agree that Hectic would think that.

Well yeah, I'm saying he's wrong :X

[Something_Smart]

Wow real informative flip wow amazing

[Something_Smart]

Scum disloyal roleblocker is unlikely, but sadly not impossible.

pedit:

[Something_Smart]

If PR isn't dead, their role clashes with other claims, or their night actions are pro-scum then it's possibly scum PR. (Time to re-evaluate)

The thing about this is that Day if town has a low chance of getting a guilty (which is only even clear if there are no other kill-stopping roles) and a high chance of getting absolutely no information and being completely unconfirmable.

[Something_Smart]

they crumbed early.

Wait they did? Where did they say that?

[Something_Smart]

I was talking about the posts where he kept saying he wasn't VT like 213.

I... don't think that counts as a crumb.

[Something_Smart]

This feels a bit performative

pErFoRmAtIvE

[Something_Smart]

Ok, but don't make it seem like it's just for that one dumb reason.

He definitely isn't.

[Something_Smart]

But I think the salient part here is-- you thought Day would be more likely to make those posts as PR?

It doesn't make sense for it to be a crumb, because either:
- They expected people to (correctly) deduce that they were likely PR: then they're just outing themself to the scum
- They expected people to interpret it as an obvious joke and not read into it: it's not a crumb because it doesn't actually lend any credence to the claim since people don't take it seriously

First option doesn't make sense as no one's gonna deliberately out themself as PR when not under pressure. So we're left with the second option.

[Something_Smart]

Interesting that the word is “can” not “is”

"do"

[Something_Smart]

She knows this, I know this, There is no universe in which its a scumtell for me to disagree with skitter's reads and push them dead.

Skitter, confirm/deny this? Would you have scumread Pooky if he had pushed Menalque?

[Something_Smart]

you're kinda missing the context in which town!me pushed dead 2 people town!skitter was townreading and they both flipped scum in our last completed TvT game so there's no reason for her to think me pushing people dead over her objections is scum in and of itself.

I'm not missing it; you literally just shared it...

You're not taking into account the context of

this

game. Just because skitter didn't find you scummy when you pushed her townreads in that game doesn't mean she never would-- and if Menalque is indeed town, it would have been fantastically pro-scum to push that execution through before skitter could sway people to his defense.

[Something_Smart]

Maybe scum!day makes up the disloyal part, but everything else is very likely part of his true role

Not sure about this. If Day really is a scum roleblocker, and it ever comes out that a townie was roleblocked, that's gonna look mighty bad for Day. It would make a lot more sense for a scum roleblocker to just claim regular roleblocker or JK or something like that.

[Something_Smart]

Bullshit as in wrong, or bullshit as in fabricated?

[Something_Smart]

@Fark you don't think they could just be a scum goon or other unrelated role that felt that was a good fakeclaim? If they're Hectic, he's certainly capable of coming up with that. Or was the townread unrelated to the claim?

[Something_Smart]

town can have more than 1 roleblocking pr in a mini normal tho so auto assuming being roleblocked = day scum is silly

Of course, nothing is guaranteed. But it definitely wouldn't look good for them.

[Something_Smart]

Oh, I see what the issue is. I did indeed misread it.

[Something_Smart]

because your take on me is not based in reality and its just objectively fabricated lies and bullshit

I mean... with all due respect, Fark living in a different reality doesn't make him scum.

Why do you think it's fabricated and not mistaken?

[Something_Smart]

a town who makes a mistake will admit and recalibrate

Not always

[Something_Smart]

isn't it fairly common for a roleblocker to exist in a mini normal?

Town roleblocker is fairly uncommon in my experience. Jailkeeper is more common, but JK and RB can coexist so it's not a hard counterclaim.

[Something_Smart]

I assumed you would only learn stuff like "you know there is a roleblocker", not a 9-shot odd non-consecutive disloyal imperative suburban roleblocker of eternal destruction

Could be either.

[Something_Smart]

Pooky I feel like you're missing the point of a fakeclaim. Scum don't only fakeclaim when they know for absolute sure that their claim can never be disproved. They do it to buy time and gain information.

I agree with you that if Day is a scum roleblocker, they probably don't claim this. But I don't see why they couldn't claim it as a goon; roleblocker is a relatively rare town role, so it's not like the odds of being counterclaimed are huge.

[Something_Smart]

why do people put disloyal roleblockers in the game?

Well, for mostly the same reason they put town roleblockers in. It's a targeted kill-preventing role that gets stronger as more scum get killed. The difference between disloyal and regular is that disloyal is less likely to interfere with other town power but also less likely to be confirmable.

[Something_Smart]

Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say.

[Something_Smart]

Isis do you have any idea what Pooky is talking about?

It feels like he's got an idea and he thinks it's a lot more obvious than it is.

First of all, NRG members don't design the setup, they just help balance it-- and sometimes mods do just add random modifiers because they feel like it. If the setup does contain a disloyal roleblocker, it was probably IV's idea, and not the reviewers'. And second of all, the most likely reason to make a roleblocker disloyal is probably to keep it from interfering with other town PR's, so all that it would tell us is that there are probably town PR's that can be blocked.

[Something_Smart]

Is it not obvious by this point that because of my role I believe Day is very likely to be town?

...it felt pretty likely, yeah. Sorry not sorry, your argument really wasn't making any sense.

Question though: does your role specifically imply a disloyal roleblocker, or would it just make sense? Because if it's the latter, that doesn't rule out a lucky fakeclaim.

[Something_Smart]

You seem desperate, Pooky

You seem tunneled, Luca

[Something_Smart]

SS, who are you wanting to elim? it sounds like you think Day could be scum with that claim, but it seems like the consensus is they're not.

Well I was leaning that way but I will begrudgingly give Pooky the benefit of the doubt, at least for now.

I'm not sure. We don't really have any other wagons worthy of the name, but among the names being thrown around I probably prefer Norwee? I remember thinking he had some towny posts, but Luca disagreed and I defer to his greater experience there.

[Something_Smart]

I'll wait to see if Luca's read changes after his reset, though.

[Something_Smart]

My previous posts don't imply a strong townread on Luca; I would trust his read even if I didn't townread him, on the basis that it's quite risky to fake a strong meta read like that as scum.

But yes, I do townread him pretty strongly, on the basis that he's been very proactive and energetic but he doesn't really seem to be advancing an agenda. 3307 is honestly probably a pretty large part of it; it seems very risky as scum to double down and then just abruptly switch off. And I don't know much about his scumgame, but I've seen him play in this strong town-leadery way as town before and it was pretty similar to this.

[Something_Smart]

they all just seem to be meta which i take with a major grain of salt without a detailed breakdown of the player's style.

Seems like something you might be able to ask Luca about, he reportedly knows quite a lot about Norwee's meta.

[Something_Smart]

It occurred to me that if skitter is scum, she's been angling to pocket Menalque since very early on. And in my experience that is something that skitter would do.

[Something_Smart]

Skitter, if you agree that you might play for a long-game pocket on Menalque as scum here, then how does that square with this?

why. do. i. wk. him. instead. of. just. letting. him. get. flipped.

[Something_Smart]

I've never seen Town!Norwee just skip over stuff and make assumptions without reading what people are saying before

Have you seen scum-him do it?

[Something_Smart]

SS being scum is one of the few things that makes sense if you consider that everyone is just pushing town and no one can agree to do anything.

Really? I would think that a directionless town would imply, if anything, a strong and proactive scumteam.

[Something_Smart]

My preferred execution pool is something like {Ali, Chara, Norwee, PP, Ydrasse}.

But I'm pretty willing to compromise.

[Something_Smart]

SS do you have a good reason to townread farkran?

I mean, I have a reason to townread him. I can't be sure that it's

good

.

[Something_Smart]

sure gimme your best reason

Fark doesn't feel like he's playing in a way that would be beneficial to scum-him. He's drawing a lot of attention while not accomplishing much, which is pretty much exactly what I remember him doing as town. It probably would have gotten him killed in that game if he hadn't been a PR, and it seems plausible that he as scum would expect it to get him killed here as well.

[Something_Smart]

so if this was day 3 and fark had killed mena town and then me town you would be ok with voting him then?

Probably, yeah, especially since he would have done both through my (and skitter's) objections.

[Something_Smart]

like if your sole reason for townreading Farkran is that HE HASNT DONE ENOUGH DAMAGE TO THE TOWN YET

That's... not what I said?

I said he's not accomplishing anything. He's all over the place. Like he posted a big all-caps call to arms on Alisae and switched off within five pages.

[Something_Smart]

S_S can u give me a clue on what the game was we had with the person who is probably Day?

Uh I have no idea how obvious/not obvious to be so sorry if this gives it away but

Spoiler:

Everyone had the same role

[Something_Smart]

can we skip the part where fark scum drives thru 2-3 town miselims and go straight to killing him?

He doesn't even scumread you, what are you talking about

[Something_Smart]

because he got no traction

Five pages is not enough time to determine this

[Something_Smart]

ok which of us has more experience pushing miselims as a scum role?

You

[Something_Smart]

Lucy has felt pretty damn town since her main has been outed.

[Something_Smart]

everyone having LORE and KNOWING DAY

hmph

It doesn't help much, trust me. I just recognize them as a different alt I played a single game with.

[Something_Smart]

chara is twtbw

[Something_Smart]

he like doesn't really even show up until like the danger has passed.

You're absolutely right. Town-Fark would obviously wake up at 3am to defend someone in a mafia game.

[Something_Smart]

3247 was made 54 minutes after the earliest time Fark ever posted on any day (10:13 am his time). So at most he was lurking through, like, a page of conversation. You had already claimed and the danger had subsided by that point.

[Something_Smart]

I’ll try to resist the temptation

You did a good job of it.

[Something_Smart]

and, if you think this is remotely how i would play as scum, then you

are

acting like idiots.

you need to claim

[Something_Smart]

I mean it could be a slip but it's more likely just poor phrasing ("two claimed TPR's" rather than "two TPR claims").

[Something_Smart]

Pooky I'll be interested to hear after the game why you think a vig that acts on N2 implies that a roleblocker that acts on odd nights would have to be disloyal.

[Something_Smart]

Day should claim their action before anything.

[Something_Smart]

Because if Day was scum why would he even claim disloyal modifier for odd nights in the first place? It doesn't seem like something scum would just do.

It seems like a pretty decent scum fakeclaim to me. It's powerful enough that it incentivizes leaving them alive, but it's unverifiable and not likely to be counterclaimed.

[Something_Smart]

Regardless, I wasn't objecting to the general claim that Day's role is an unlikely scum fakeclaim. I was objecting to Pooky's claim that Day's role being disloyal makes sense so that it doesn't interfere with Pooky's role.

[Something_Smart]

I can only imagine he was BS’ing to eat the NK, as it makes absolutely no sense

But he had literally the worst role imaginable to do that with. 100% of his role's utility was in surviving until N2.

[Something_Smart]

Pooky was obviously getting killed because of his claim regardless of reads

^

[Something_Smart]

maybe? idk, I don't kill for claims when I'm scum unless it's like literally a cop or there aren't better options

I think you're in the minority there, and Pooky softed a pretty strong role besides.

It's entirely possible that scum also intended to protect or frame Farkran, but I feel like we can't really read into that. (It's usually difficult to read into even when the target isn't a claimed PR.)

[Something_Smart]

Oh good. I was afraid I'd be losing the pagetop game after that one, but I have a few to spare.

[Something_Smart]

how did he soft strength?

Well you don't go "it's massive swing if I am roleblocked" if you're, like, a fruit vendor...

[Something_Smart]

just because i ask them to explain their push and position.

That is definitely not all you are doing.

[Something_Smart]

If Farkran is scum then I'm making myself the fall guy.

FTFY

[Something_Smart]

Day claimed non-consecutive, not odd-night.

I mean, in almost all circumstances a non-consecutive role should be using their action on odd nights.

[Something_Smart]

is this a shot that town takes?

Why wouldn't it be?

[Something_Smart]

I think I maybe just don't like matt Bellamy's voice that much, unfortunately

That is quite a shame. Matt Bellamy is, like, one of my favorite singers of all time, but his voice is definitely unusual.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Farkran

[Something_Smart]

How would that get on your good side? Didn't you just get done saying that there were probably a lot of scum on the wagon?

[Something_Smart]

because it appeases me and the timing makes the vote easily justified.
There's no way for skitter to know what conclusions I will reach from the vote count, or if I try to draw any conclusions at all.

I feel like she would expect that to look bad to most people...

[Something_Smart]

SS, why did you vote Farkran?

Arguing for things that make no sense is not, in and of itself, scum indicative for Farkran.

But when I played with him before, he got pretty passionate and personal when arguing with people. I don't see that here. It makes me think that he's more focused on appearing reasonable than actually pushing the things he believes in.

[Something_Smart]

That was why I thought the D1 argument between Skitter/Pooky/Farkran was an all town affair, because the emotions felt genuine

I mean... I don't have a huge sample size. But it definitely felt like he was going all-out to try to win arguments in the other one, whereas he seems a lot more reserved here.

That, plus skitter and Menalque whom I trust are pushing him, plus I can see why he might be pushing the angles he is as scum if he felt he had no choice but to double down on them, make me feel reasonably good about this vote.

[Something_Smart]

Not per se, but I believe Menalque that skitter wouldn't kill Pooky.

[Something_Smart]

@SS You're willing to bet the game on that?

No...? I just think it's enough to make me not want to kill her today.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, I have a lot of faith in skitter and Menalque to read each other. Maybe too much, though I feel like in my experience they've rarely been wrong on each other.

[Something_Smart]

And what about the rest of what I wrote in that post?

Do you disagree?

I don't disagree. If I were to read skitter off of my own faculties she'd be somewhere near nullscum, I think?

[Something_Smart]

The line I heard earlier was that Menalque always Townbins Skitter until later in the game regardless?

This is the post I was going off of. Maybe I'm reading it as more confident than it is.

yah the idea that scum!skitt kills pooky N1 is kinda ridiculous imo

[Something_Smart]

I mean, in my experience I've had a lot of trouble reading skitter early in the game. In TENET in particular I was scumreading her until she started hitting her stride.

[Something_Smart]

I don’t like SS’s vote and think he could easily be scum

For what it's worth, I'm not sure that I would be making a push like that as scum if I didn't have to.

[Something_Smart]

SS originally agreed with my argument, but later decided to trust Menalque that Skitter wouldn’t kill Pooky, which didn’t sit well with me

Like I said... I don't understand his reasoning, but that doesn't make it wrong, and he knows her very well. It's a team game, and so I'm going to trust the opinion of someone who's better-informed than I am. What part of that doesn't sit right with you?

[Something_Smart]

There are way too many players pandering to the line that Skitter wouldn’t NK Pooky, and you’re one who I’d expect to see through the BS

And you did see through the Bs originally, but have allowed yourself to be sucked back into it because Menalque said so. I get this is a team game but that seems possibly scum motivated to me, as it feels more an act of convenience or politics than of genuine game-solving.

There aren't that many people arguing it, it seems to me? It's mostly just skitter and Menalque?

And like, it's not that I necessarily trust them completely. It's just that, between Fark and skitter, skitter has this going for her, and Fark doesn't really have anything going for him.

[Something_Smart]

SS could you explain why you're voting me today? Your scumcase was kinda vague considering that it didn't look you were disagreeing with me/luca wrt skitter + you said i am not being passionate in 4705 but i feel like i am, and if anything that's probably more scum indicative from me than it is town + yesterday you didn't move your vote at all so you must have some valid reasons for doing so today?

Well, I have a reason. Can't promise that it's valid. But you remember the game we played together, right? I was ripping into you for pushing bad reasoning and you fought back really strongly and aggressively. You aren't doing that here.

[Something_Smart]

You said something D1 about Farkran making it hard for himself if he’s scum with his stances, which I agreed with. Doesn’t that count?

Well that definitely applies to skitter too, unless she's scum with Menalque.

And I suppose I can look back at why I said that; it's certainly possible that I'm forgetting something that I saw earlier.

[Something_Smart]

SS isn't good at this stuff

?

[Something_Smart]

If Fark flips town we surely kill Alisae next.

[Something_Smart]

What is fake about my positioning? Alisae literally quickhammered Fark while saying "yeah if I'm scum I quickhammer here".

[Something_Smart]

I mean, I don't disagree that skitter also needs to die in that scenario. But Alisae would need to die, like, really badly.

[Something_Smart]

We can cross that bridge when we come to it, I suppose.

[Something_Smart]

I have no understanding why ss isn't scum

Ask skitter

[Something_Smart]

I think it's impossible for skitter to have fully correct reads with the current gamestate after flips and claims

sure but like, she was more confident on me than on most other people. And historically she's pretty good at reading me (she misread me in PYP, but I'm pretty sure she came around before she died).

[Something_Smart]

Was she more confident on you then mena?

Hard to tell.

[Something_Smart]

Whose the scumteam ss

Well, right now my townpool is {Day, Norwee, Menalque, Luca}, so that would leave my execution pool as {Lucy, Chara, Alisae}. Off the top of my head no combination of those three seems implausible.

[Something_Smart]

You're talking about the stuff before the hammer?

I've never played against Ali-scum, but that kind of theater seems to be something they would do.

[Something_Smart]

So why did you stop?

[Something_Smart]

Like Mena the actions you and Lucy are taking right now are very similar, hence why I think it could make sense for you to be Lucy's teammate if she was scum.

Wouldn't that make it less likely?

[Something_Smart]

What was bad about them?

[Something_Smart]

As if he was hoping it wouldn't be very convincing and someone else would be limmed?

Also this is silly. My arguments were meta arguments which means at worst they are going to be ignored.

[Something_Smart]

It was definitely true. Want me to pull some quotes from the other game we played together?

[Something_Smart]

If you want to better explain your read progression as a whole then that would be good

I mean my progression on Fark is that I vaguely thought he was town and then I reread his ISO and looked back at the game (where he said stuff such as "I'll just never play with you again, that should be enough") and it felt like he was much meaner in that game and much more diplomatic in this one.

Which okay, I know it's low sample size. But it was a concrete thing to go on when I had very few other concrete leads, except for the points against skitter and I already explained why I didn't want to go for her.

And like... as scum, I'd know how that would have to look, no? Why wouldn't I make more of an effort to set it up instead of just abruptly reversing my read like that?

[Something_Smart]

The accidental E-1 being theater is plausible, but I think that Day is town off of their claim and Fark's flip.

[Something_Smart]

T -> T enabling is pretty common, though S -> S enabling is indeed rare. But more than that, I didn't think Day would have claimed that role as a scum roleblocker, and now we know that they are in fact a roleblocker.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, it could just be that Ali was planning to quickhammer if anyone put Fark at E-1, without that necessarily implicating Day.

[Something_Smart]

Well I guess that's obviously true regardless of their alignment.

[Something_Smart]

SS, did you respond to what i said about Farkran being passionate as scum after the justification you gave for your Fark vote?

I don't think so, link it?

[Something_Smart]

This scum, game solved.

How many games have you played with me before?

[Something_Smart]

Really?

I can only recall, like, two.