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[NorwegianboyEE]

Just to make it clear, my scumreads at this point are Mena/Skitter30/Penguin.

[NorwegianboyEE]

norwee let's pretend we're all town here

me you pengy skitter

let's talk about

which one of us is the best person to sheep

You, because Penguin/Skitter are prob scum.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

now I have 18 years of experience which is like more than all three of you put together.

and I'm also brilliant and rarely wrong(this is a massive misrep btw I'm wrong all the time)

but I've probably spent more time flirting shamelessly with skitter than actually thinking about scumhunting.

so who do you think out of the other three is good at this scum catching thing?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Just to make it clear, my scumreads at this point are Mena/Skitter30/Penguin.

is this a team or independent?

[PenguinPower]

norwee, you are being really sensitive about a vote on you. it's not a good look

[NorwegianboyEE]

*Hurls in my mouth*
This post is nasty.

Think of it this way, if you knew me/Luca was TvT what would you make of this post here? Hard pocket attempt + kill another town slot.
I also disagree on your take that Luca will lose credibility on a townflip of me, and that’s more what scum would be banking on. If Luca pushes me like this as scum with the knowledge that i would flip town i would be really freaking impressed. The correct stance is that no matter my flip Luca is town here.

Oh nm sorry

A few things:
- the credibility bit i was trying to word a bit delicately so that we dont enter like a realm we probably shouldnt, but i meant more in the context that if luca is scum and trying to use his past read accuracy on nor to tr him here, amd he gets misflipped, *he wont have that credibility in future games*, even as town. I dont know why he's lolburn that here, so i dont think he's just scum here doing this. I meant in a broader context, not right here
- i agree with you that the correct stance is that he's just town here.
- ive made it kinda clear that i dont know where scum is. I townread luca, and think he has a good lead. Why are you assuming it's scum 'eggijg on a tvt fight for pocketing purposes to get a misflip' - like why is that more likely than me not knowing where to vote and sheeping someone i think is town

Ok i don't care for most of this, but the part about "why wouldn't i be town sheeping someone i trust to be town" is because you previously stated you townread me and are not following some meta case instead of actually solving me yourself. It's just sheeping. I don't think town!you does this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

norwee, you are being really sensitive about a vote on you. it's not a good look

I don't give a fuck.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You're coming into this game and stating you townread Skitter and then vote me just because i'm the biggest wagon otherwise, and i'm telling you that sounds like complete garbage.

[skitter30]

Are you gonna continue to avoid answering the question or ...
Third time i've asked now

Just because i’m waiting to reply doesn’t mean i’m not going to.

I mean you could have just said: i'm waiting to reply
And i wouuld have dropped it

[skitter30]

Ok i don't care for most of this, but the part about "why wouldn't i be town sheeping someone i trust to be town" is because you previously stated you townread me and are not following some meta case instead of actually solving me yourself. It's just sheeping. I don't think town!you does this

I mean why do you think scum-me does?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok i don't care for most of this, but the part about "why wouldn't i be town sheeping someone i trust to be town" is because you previously stated you townread me and are not following some meta case instead of actually solving me yourself. It's just sheeping. I don't think town!you does this

I mean why do you think scum-me does?

Because scum are looking for mislims. I've been solving with the mindset and me and Luca are town, so naturally from my POV scum will be in the slots that vote either me or defend me depending on where they want to put their stance. What they have least interest in in making the TvT end by having me and Luca townread each other. That is mafia 101.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok i don't care for most of this, but the part about "why wouldn't i be town sheeping someone i trust to be town" is because you previously stated you townread me and are not following some meta case instead of actually solving me yourself. It's just sheeping. I don't think town!you does this

I mean why do you think scum-me does?

Because scum are looking for mislims. I've been solving with the mindset that me and Luca are town, so naturally from my POV scum will be in the slots that either vote me or defend me depending on where they want to put their stance. What they have least interest in in making the TvT end by having me and Luca townread each other. That is mafia 101.

EBWOP

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

norwee do you think you are a viable mis-elim?

[Farkran]

I can be wrong on anyone, that much is obvious to me - to insist that I can't possibly be wrong is just incredibly arrogant and imo quite disrespectful to everyone here.

That's not the point though, i explicitly said that my problem is not that you could in fact be wrong, but rather the change in your degree of certainty that you could be. Check again my post with the spoiler tags to see what i am referring to. First you were omfg burn the scum, with caps lock and strong statements, then you went "oh ofc i could be wrong" -> this doesn't look like you acknowledging you could be wrong, but rather you *know* you're wrong and do not want to be bopped on a wrong flip. This is the scum motivation you were asking for.

Me admitting as much to Norwee is not me reconsidering on Alisae - it is just me being realistic about the odds Alisae flips scum/town.

You could have been realistic since the beginning, OR you could have continued to push there if you were (are?) convinced e is scum - that would have been protown behavior.

You believe that scum!me looked at Alisae and slammed a case on Alisae hoping mis-elim Alisae and then backed off due to some people defending Alisae?

I think that's not a very accurate description of the game state at all.

Let's look at what actually happened.

638 <- my case
701 <- Day votes Alisae
721 <- I respond to Norwee's question and say yea I could be wrong
722 <- you vote me for "backpedalling"

Now notice from 638 -> 721 there are no new votes on me, in fact if anything momentum is on my side as Day joins me vs Alisae ->

There is no tactical reason to backpedal or back off - > no scum motivation to reposition.

There's no reason as town either, given that nothing happened except a question from norwee. If you are convinced that ali is scum, you kill scum, you don't flail about being wrong after having produced a strong case on a strong scumread of yours - from my pov, you only do that if you have *serious* doubts about your read, and that's not what you have shown in your initial posting (again, see my spoilered quotes for reference)

There is also timing -> the timing from my case in 638 and what you call "bacpedalling" in 721 is 1 hour and 40 minutes - not even enough time for most of the game to even read and think about my case, so why would I be backpedalling off a strong case that people haven't even gotten a chance to read yet?

The timing and motivation do not fit a scum repositioning off a bad push - if anything my push had momentum as people were joining me on Alisae and noone was voting me for the push at that point in time - so why even backpedal?

Yeah, why? Maybe if you explain this to me clearly we could come to an agreement - as i said, i don't see any town motive to do so

Lastly I disagree with your contention it was backpedaling at all.

If you look at the exchange between me and norwee, the original "pooky could be wrong" is about me being wrong on Ydrasse and Alisae not considering that possibility in E's scenarios - and why that was scummy. Norwee followed up by asking about whether I could be wrong on Alisae - and I admitted sure I could be.

Framing a simple statement of fact that I can be wrong as me backpedalling off my case is kind of silly imo.

Again - admitting you could be wrong is not backpedaling nor it is scum. Changing the strength of your read for no reason is

I understand in this game people need to puff their chests up and exaggerate the surety of their convictions - after all confidence tends to be townread in the current meta and when people are unsure they tend to follow the most confident voice in the room.

That is something I am perfectly capable of doing -> as either alignment, I probably tend to reconsider less as scum tbh.

Actually you don't need to - which is one more reason why i don't understand why you have chosen to do so and then stopped. I have been both townread and scumread for overconfidence, both as town!me and scum!me, the correct choice involves knowing the player, reading the gamestate, etc.

For instance, my scumread on you is nowhere near as strong as you have shown to be certain of your sr on ali. You could be town. I don't know you as a player, and that makes my read even weaker - still, i see ground for you to be scum too.

I have lost many games for being confidently wrong on someone in day 1, I don't want to make the entire game about me and someone I SR, there's no real need for that and if I am wrong then it tends to let the scum obfuscate themselves. So I will vary and lay back a bit.

Me too - or rather, i would have but then i won because i was carried by better players (at least within the context of those particular games)

Overall my biggest issue with your contention that I backed off Alisae for scum!motivation is that it mis-represents the actual game state and flow at that point in time and I have no need to do that as scum, in fact it opens me up to a line of attack that I would not be open to if I had simply stayed on an attacking path.

Eh, i disagree. But i think i am the only one who does, and i've learned my lesson about being too stubborn in these circumstances. Your wagon died, atm i don't want to fight for it - i think there are still fair chances for you to be scum and if a new wagon arises i might be voting you again, depends on how things go. Or perhaps you are just town, but nothing happened so far for me to do a 180 on you like i did for Day.

For instance - i think your defense is ok but ultimately nai - you could produce some insight about your reads instead, and talk to me about who i should vote and why

Pedit: too many posts while i was walling, i'll read them shortly

[PenguinPower]

You're coming into this game and stating you townread Skitter and then vote me just because i'm the biggest wagon otherwise, and i'm telling you that sounds like complete garbage.

you should really lighten up - makes the game much more fun

[skitter30]

Ok so your current theory is that most of the scumteam is piling on you? And that i'm defending partner-mena?

Pedit @nor

[NorwegianboyEE]

norwee do you think you are a viable mis-elim?

Do i think so? Idk. I honestly don't care very much.
But do scum often think i am? Yes.
Sometimes scum do pocket me, but more often that not they will try to eliminate or discredit me when i am town.

[Farkran]

yes - in fact, that's pretty much how I play D1 even if I'm in from the beginning.

This is true

[NorwegianboyEE]

You're coming into this game and stating you townread Skitter and then vote me just because i'm the biggest wagon otherwise, and i'm telling you that sounds like complete garbage.

you should really lighten up - makes the game much more fun

Sorry.
But really, i'm not buying that you play in this nonchalant manner in every game. And why do you townread Skitter anyway?

[Day]

Is this the town-crying you were looking for, Pooky?

[PenguinPower]

I mean you can look at my prior games if you want to confirm that - also several players here can do the same.

And - if you think that I was serious with my "skitter is town because I want her to be" then you

really

need to lighten up.

[Day]

Norwee needs a bit of day in his life to lighten up.

[Farkran]

You're coming into this game and stating you townread Skitter and then vote me just because i'm the biggest wagon otherwise, and i'm telling you that sounds like complete garbage.

This *might* be townpoints for PP

I'm in with your other reads though

[Day]

skitter22, what exactly in that interaction made you like the vote more?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I mean you can look at my prior games if you want to confirm that - also several players here can do the same.

And - if you think that I was serious with my "skitter is town because I want her to be" then you

really

need to lighten up.

So you have no reads?