Mini 634 - The Baron's court: Game over

[Rage]

Well.. what if I told you Rage actually means Rage-a-muffin?

[Rage]

Well.. what if I told you Rage actually means Rage-a-muffin?

Your avatar seems to contradict that....

What?

[Rage]

Hello ya'll, I was out of town for a couple days and didn't get the chance to tell all my games. To get right into this, I'd like some things cleared up:

you know what - in the spirit of getting some discussion going i will tell you where I was:

I was in the village inn.

Ok. That's plausible. I was asleep in my quarters.

How did you consider that plausible when you sleep in your quarters? How did you know that the village inn existed on Night 0?

First: almost all of us have night powers of some sort, 10 in fact. I am one of the few who has none.

This clue does not help the Town at all on Day 1. The Town has no way to know this is true, nor whether you are pro-town because of it.

Second: Whoever has a first name starting with the letter B is a pro-town character.

I believe this more than the first "clue" you gave out. If you are town, you are giving out unnecessary information to the scum, especially considering how you have more Knowledge. If you are scum, which is more likely because of the fact that you have this information in the first place, you are giving out this information to get the town off of your back.

I think some of the information is relevant and some is flavor... What if everyone shared their character's first name? I'm thinking that has to give us some information, and I can't see how the scum would use that against us...

Anyone see anything the scum might use with just our first names? If not, I'll start by sharing mine...

You stated this before you claimed.

Second: Whoever has a first name starting with the letter B is a pro-town character.

You stated this after you claimed. What I want to know is, what scum-hunting could you have possibly done by getting a pro-town role to reveal their self?

Vote: sekinj

The information you have given out so far benefits the scum much more than it does the Town. Remember that this is the Baron's

Court

? The title of this game means that it is more likely trouble is coming from inside of the court, meaning someone of power has turned to the dark side. Of course, they would need some sort of motive, which in your case I think it is safe to assume that your character has a lack of power and is wanting to change that. However, my own Knowledge precedes me. Sekinj, if you want your name cleared from my suspicions, I suggest for you to give out more information. The information I would like to know is your first name, nickname and last name. And I think it all the more reason for you to be giving this information out seeing as how you have said the following:

Anyone see anything the scum might use with just our first names? If not, I'll start by sharing mine...

And no one has said otherwise.

[Rage]

Sekinj, considering everything everyone has said so far, who, in your opinion, are the players most likely to be scum?

[Rage]

@rage: you didn't answer my question. Why are you so sure I have a nickname?

My bad, I meant to get to it and it slipped my mind. I am sure you have a nickname because I have one, Nightson had one and most recently Mariyta has admitted to having one. If you did not have a nickname, I assume your answer would have been different went asked about one. Would you mind sharing it all (first, nickname, and last) with us?

The only Knowledge we, as a Town, have at our disposal is that someone with the letter B as the first letter of their first name is a pro-town character. But the reason that I do not think this information is correct or was given to a pro-town character is because there is absolutely no way to prove this without the character role-claiming, which would benefit the scum more than the town. Considering how everyone in this game wants to appear pro-town asking a player with the appropriate information (letter B as the first letter of their character's first name) would be futile unless they role-claimed to accompany it and the Town believed it.

Therefore, perhaps it would be best if everyone gave out their nicknames? From what I understand of them, they some-what represent the role the character has. I approve of giving the Town that knowledge, being on the look out for phony nicknames of course, but I would like to hear more discussion about this rather than everyone nickname-claiming now.

@sekinj, does your character's name begin with 'Chancellor ____ "___" ____'?

Maybe we should share the gender of each of our characters?

Could you explain how this would benefit

anyone

in this game?

[Rage]

You know, MafiaMann has been awfully quick to believe whatever Sekinj has been saying..

Anyone that keeps there vote on sekinji now after his claim will be a top suspect till more is learned for now the claim seems legit to me and shows how we should not vote sekinji instead maybe look at those who jumped on the sekinji wagon.

Whatever happened to this, MafiaMann? Surely you know that I jumped on the bandwagon, as pressure was decreasing, but you decided to vote for the player that had bad reasoning? Do you have no trouble with my suspicion of Sekinj?

I feel that sekinjis claim was satisfactory we did get the role and what the role does. He did share information that seems to be legit to this point and if anyone cares to prove it wrong go for it. Also the info he provided does seem helpful. We know that we will have a lot of stuff going on at night and

i dont know bout you guys but that definitly is helpful for me.

Yes, we did get the role, and that the role does nothing, which I doubt. The information he provided seems helpful to the scum more than it does the town, do you wish to dispute this? And, no, we do not know that we will have a lot of stuff going on at night (nor how it is helpful to YOU) because we have no way to know if Sekinj is lying about his information. You immediately took this information as truth, and it seems very off to me.

Trying to get more role information out of me right now is scummy.

I would like more information from you, other than using Lynch All Liars, because we have no way to know if you or Sekinj are lying other than your words. What letters do your first, nickname, and last name start with?

@OhGodMyLife, Sekinj knows that if you are telling the truth, he is lying, and vice versa. So, if he has been lying, why would he risk giving out that information? It doesn’t seem like he would knowingly lie and, thus, be proven wrong. I agree, though, that something seems very out of place with his claim. I mean, come on! He’s the Baron’s Right-Hand man, and he has no night action? Not only that, but his Knowledge benefits the Scum much more than it does the Town!

Frankly, it will help me tell who is lying.

My character is female and I am a male in real life, am I lying?

My vote stands where it is. Feel free to bring out more of your "unique" knowledge that will help us find scum, because, yes, your information has helped me find you scummy.

@Everyone, I think we need to hear more from the players without recent discussion. Specifically thinktank, raverblood and ThAdmiral.

[Rage]

I'm afraid that soon we will discover that the only way to prove if Sekinj is lying is if we lynch OhGodMyLife.

[Rage]

My info said, Power: --- and then later in my list of knowledge: 10 players, in total, beside you have night choices.

lol, why would it say Power if you didn't have one? I'm convinced you are hiding something about what your role is capable of doing from the Town.

My vote stays where it is.

[Rage]

Oops, I didn't see this!

It's just hard for me to see why OGML would be lying.

If you knew he was lying, which means the information you have received in your Knowledge is correct, you would know that either 1) He REALLY wants you lynched or 2) He is scum. However, if you do not know he is lying, meaning the information you have received in your Knowledge is not correct and you have lied to the Town about it, you wouldn't not know nearly as much.

What do you think makes more sense, sekinj?

[Rage]

Okay, on one hand we have a player who has appeared scummy before and claims that he is the only one without a night action. On the other hand, we have a player who claims not to have a night action and that the first player is scum because of it. Now, what I think the town needs to know is if there is any more information out there that has the potential to help decide who is the scummier. I have information regarding what I have asked of the two players, and both wish to not give any more out. But the problem is, the Town has no way of knowing if OhGodMyLife has a night action or not if Sekinj is lynched. But if OhGodMyLife is lynched, I predict that the only information we will receive is some flavour text about where he was when "an angry mob", I assume, scooped him up and hung him, role name and character's name.

So, I guess the questions that remain are, do we think that either way is a strong enough argument? Do we have enough information about both Sekinj and OhGodMyLife to make a decisive lynch?

[Rage]

Unvote: Sekinj
Vote: OhGodMyLife

[Rage]

This isn't getting anywhere. We now have information on both Sekinj and OhGodMyLife, so I say we move on.

For example, I'm sure the Baron at least would feel like he has to lie to hide his identity.

According to my flavour text, the Moderator is the Baron. Also according to my flavour text, trouble is coming from the Baron's staff. Seeing as how you apparently have no night action but are what I assume the closest role to the Baron, I:

Unvote: OhGodMyLife

@Mod, requesting prod on raverblood and Singing Librarian

@MafiaMann, please answer the questions I asked you in post #128, Page 6.

[Rage]

On Day 1 that seems very unlikely, although Sekinj did attract a lot of attention before he claimed, resulting is mass-unvoting until things were "clearer".

[Rage]

Sekinj did not say he had a clue about power, just that he has no power and the way it was written was "Power: ---". I don't believe it, but, hey, that's just a hunch. I just don't see why "---", or anything for that matter, would be written if it didn't exist. It would be better just to leave it out, in my opinion.

[Rage]

the least suspected on would be the one that the baron trust most or is closest to him.

My point was that according to my role's

Flavour

, the Baron feels that trouble is arising from inside of his court. That is why I don't believe Sekinj's claim, because I think that for "trouble" to make any sense someone of power must be causing a disruption in the court, and the fact that Sekinj has information that I think benefits the Scum to know more than the Town increases my suspicions.

[Rage]

a) According to most players, the information I have given benefits scum more than town

Does most players = Rage and Raverblood?

b) Most players think giving personal information is scummy

Where has this been said by anyone?

c) Fishing for information to back up the clues I have is scummy

I've been trying to do that to both you and OhGodMyLife but have never been called scummy for trying.

[d]) My information is not believed anyway

Refer to a) and b).

@OhGodMyLife, I think it is now quite obvious that you have not provided enough information to back up your claim against Sekinj.

[Rage]

Sekinj, I think you're overreacting quite a bit. If you are indeed the chancellor, you should know how important your information will be in the long run, despite what happens right now.

Play it smart and stay alive as long as possible.

Doesn't that only really work for scum and pro-town power roles?

[Rage]

Save it, Sekinj. That way the Town can use the information later on, when nobody knows what exactly you have. You can't guaranteed that everyone will believe it, though. For example, just because I want you to save whatever information you have, that requires more information to be put to use, does not mean that I will agree with you every time you use your information to prove something is suspicious/wrong.

We need to hear more from OhGodMyLife.

[Rage]

[quote="Sekinj"]But I'm going to push back as well because I can't help the town unless I am believed.[/quote[See, I don't like posts like this.

[Rage]

Rage

: Capitalized the word Knowledge; what was your reason for this?

Related to role messages. I hope this is where Sekinj is getting his information from.

[Rage]

I'm on vacation August 2nd-6th.

@Mod, Replace me if need be!

[Rage]

OGML, you unvoted Sekinj, and asked him a question where the answer is one he has been giving all along. Then you attack Mariyta with no reasoning or much basis, as you have only said you think she is scum all along, completely moving away from your attack on Sekinj. Methinks it is because you are lying about having no night action and thought you would have enough evidence to convince the town to lynch Sekinj, and are not willing to give any more information about your role because it would be incriminating.

Therefore, I'd like to know all of your name, your role name and your gender before you earn my vote, please. Your attack on Mariyta can come later, as it could just as easily be you bussing a partner than simply stating a suspicion, and I would definitely like to know more about you now.

[Rage]

I'm back from vacation now.

Therefore, I'd like to know all of your name, your role name and your gender before you earn my vote, please.

A lot of people read this thinking my intention was to vote for OhGodMyLife no matter whether the information was given out. Meaning it didn't matter what was said because I would still be voting for him. What I meant to get across by saying this is that I would like to know the information I asked for out of him, and then depending on what was given out I could judge whether or not to put my vote on OhGodMyLife, because I have Knowledge in my role related to what I am asking. Why would I request information from OGML that would be revealed upon his death?

Um... no. I'm not giving you more role information so I can still earn your vote. Good try.

You OBVIOUSLY have not given the Town enough evidence against Sekinj for a lynch. Plus, you've only focused on the fact that I want more information out of you, which I'm sure would be beneficial to the Town in this deadlock between you and Sekinj, so I'm assuming you have no problem with this:

OGML, you unvoted Sekinj, and asked him a question where the answer is one he has been giving all along. Then you attack Mariyta with no reasoning or much basis, as you have only said you think she is scum all along, completely moving away from your attack on Sekinj. Methinks it is because you are lying about having no night action and thought you would have enough evidence to convince the town to lynch Sekinj, and are not willing to give any more information about your role because it would be incriminating.

Moving on..

what??? i feel that it is was to early to start claiming. if we all do that the scum will know how is a threat that they need to get rid of first and who can wait.

You misunderstand me, I'm very against mass-claiming on Day 1. I only want OhGodMyLife to give out the information, and although I wouldn't mind more players doing so, too much information would hurt the Town more than it would help, especially because everyone could have Knowledge. It is likelier that nobody knows, so to get a decisive answer for who to lynch, between Sekinj and OhGodMyLife, I have to rely on what information was given to me before. My role's Knowledge.

@Everyone, If I didn't ask for his role-name, do you think the players currently suspicious of me would still as suspicious? He doesn't HAVE to give it out, considering doing so has the possibility to give out the Vanilla Townie role name and in a themed game may not be too smart, but I would still like to know the names that no one else in this game could possibly have, preferably before OGML is lynched.

[Rage]

Cue: More evidence from OhGodMyLife

See what I'm talking about?

[Rage]

lol, Right now methinks his role

appears

as pro-town since he's said a bunch of nothing to back his claims.

I found you, didn't I?

I'm sorry, let's look at this from the perspective of the players who have received "enough", as you call it, evidence to lynch Sekinj. We, every player except you and Sekinj, have absolutely no idea what your role could be, beyond having a Cop-like role who investigated you on Night 0, so when you just blatantly state "I have no night actions, lynch Sekinj because he is lying" doesn't mean much at all. I have high doubts of this, but if you are truly pro-town, wouldn't you want a little bit more as evidence? You both can be proven wrong so easily, and although I don't think a deadline lynch is necessary at this point in time, what other option do we really have? Move on and put useless, near-random suspicion on another player, only to come back.. when? No thanks, not only are we are past that stage in the game, I doubt any further information would come up unless you provide it. Besides, you could just as easily have a role that appears as pro-town, isn't, be taking advantage of it by "proving" Sekinj is lying, and get "two" Townies eliminated. There is absolutely no way to prove your argument until post-game discussion.

Now, if you are actually pro-town, I'd like to hear more than just your name, and although my frustration would have been settled with just that, you apparently you would like to wait until you are lynched to give it up. I'd like to know every little, no matter how insignificant you think it is, piece of information your character has been given before you are deadline-lynched. 'Cause if it's given to a pro-town player, how can it NOT benefit the Town? Keeping it a secret for the entire game would be unjust for a pro-town player to do, no? If "no" is your answer, my vote will be on you, and as you should know, it isn't now.

[Rage]

Thanks, you're making this thing called scum-hunting so much easier.

Vote: OhGodMyLife

[Rage]

I'm going to vote: mariyta. I know it's basically useless at this point but I believe she was one of the main culrpits fanning the fires of the "binary choice", and then recently turned on ogml when just previously she was interested in hearing more from him.

You're not voting for me for doing the same thing? Albeit, my vote is based a little different because I asked for more information from OhGodMyLife and instead received his vote on me.

@Mod, I beg for more time to discuss! I beg, I tell you! We, collectively as a Town, both pro and anti-town alike, have no way to truly know if it is Sekinj who is lying or OhGodMyLife, as not enough evidence/information is at all of our disposals/been released. With the deadline approaching, some of us (namely myself, Mariyta, Sekinj and ThAdmiral) have chosen to "take a shot in the dark" against one of the two sides, but I'm doubting anyone on the bandwagon, including myself, has enough information to make the correct decision. So, I request the removal, or at least an extension, that will allow more time for questions to be answered and thoughtful decisions to be made. Is that not what Day 1 is all about? Is that not what Mafia itself is all about? I beg!

[Rage]

Um, 'was doing a reread and came upon this:

My info said, Power: --- and then later in my list of knowledge: 10 players, in total,

beside you

have night choices.

That would mean that you have a night choice, and it doesn't say anything about you not having one. Care to clear this up, Sekinj?

[Rage]

lawl, you even mention that it was a note to the mod.

[Rage]

Right off the bat, I want to say that this post is kinda-rushed and kinda-non-sequential because I want to make a bigger post later. I believe there is a LOT of things we have not cleared up from yesterday, and I had a lot of questions to ask OhGodMyLife, so the hammer from Gremwell isn't helping my perception of him(?) as pro-town. Moving on..

I think it's a pretty reliable guess to think that a Squire has no night action. If anyone doesn't know what a Squire is, I think I can cough up a definition somewhere. So, I'd like to say that I'm confident Sekinj will be the lynch for today. I'm not putting my vote on her now because I believe this day will be very useful for discussion about the previous day, and for looking back upon in future days. That said,

FoS: Sekinj

Opinionated Role Speculation:

"Cook" is probably similar to a Baker, who has the ability to cause Town to lose after a certain number of days. This would mean that Town has a limited amount of Days to scumhunt, the only other limitation being the night-kill. More speculation, I'm thinking that there is only one scum faction in this game with at least 3 players, seeing as how both Nights have consisted of only one night-kill. 3 players seems the likeliest option for a Night start game with 11, which in this case would mean that this game has essentially 10 players, with the added 'bonus' of one Townie dead. I don't consider it a bonus, I was just trying to be witty. Also, I apologize to Nightson for casting him/her out, but, ya know, you are quite dead.

yes i did vote rage however i unvoted when rage did point out that he was against massclaiming from the beginning. i voted rage for trying to get omgl to claim because i felt it was scummy.

Why exactly did you vote for me? You said it was because I wanted mass-claiming, which is not true, but now you say it was because I wanted OGML to claim. That is 1 of 10 players alive at the time. I'd hardly consider that mass-claiming.

I voted OGML because we were at deadline and approaching a NL, which stated in the rules would result in bad things for the town. What else could I do in that position?

As for useful posts I am sorry about that

, and you can expect that to change.

Sorry, but I couldn't help laughing at the underlined part. I know it's probably not your intention, but that's how I read it. As for your reasoning behind your hammering vote of OhGodMyLife, you probably should have mentioned that when you were actually doing the vote. Now that other players have said that they were afraid of the deadline, and I'll admit that I didn't like the consequence, scum could easily slide on "I was afraid of the deadline". As for what I believe "could've been done" in that position is properly review the suspicions against all the players in the game, decide upon and state which ones you agree with, and from there decide whether or not you wanted the OhGodMyLife lynch. The outcome of the alignment of the player doesn't matter, seeing as how there was a deadline, and hammering a scum would definitely appear pretty pro-town

at first glance

.

However, each person began the game in a certain section.

You know where everyone started, or the fact that players start somewhere, thus implying that they have the ability to move? I don't know about you, but my role can't move where I stay during the night.

On to Sekinj, I do not believe the insane thing; The WIFOM is too tremendous. As an example, if you know:

Oh, don't worry, I don't know the sections, just how many there are. I've kept track in my notes and 3 sections have been mentioned so far. There is one more section currently in use, and then a 5th section that will come into play later in the game.

yet you say you might be insane, isn't there some major contradiction there?

So, I'm wondering if I am insane...

Makes me wonder if I'm insane...

I would like to submit exibit A in defense of my sanity:

ca·pri·cious –adjective
1. subject to, led by, or indicative of caprice or whim; erratic: He's such a capricious boss I never know how he'll react.

Firstly, quote-number-the-third comes makes absolutely no defense. You think you are insane, yet you provide nothing about what exactly you are defending by saying "I'm defending my sanity". You called yourself insane! Secondly, if you have to mention it three times, I'm doubting it's true. Thirdly, that isn't

your

nickname.

Anyways, I had a lot of stuff I wanted to clear up, so I made a pre-written version that I wanted to post before, so now I just have to edit it to make sense for

this

day. That post shall come soon. To clarify, my top three suspects are currently:

• Sekinj
  
• Gremwell
  
• Mafiamann

*Note that this post may seem very grammatically incorrect, so I apologize for any skimmers who just want to blaze through a wall of text. Enjoy, nonetheless.

[Rage]

And Grem's vote wasn't a hasty hammer!!! It was a vote cast to save the town from whatever bad thing happens from a no lynch at deadline.

Rethink this, please.

'will include rest of post in upcoming post.

[Rage]

I was asking you to reconsider saying Gremwell's vote wasn't hasty, yet saying we were close to a deadline. From what I can tell, his reasoning was:

vote ogml

though I think the jester role would fit well in "the barons court"

Basically, that's saying nothing about his vote for OhGodMyLife, and considering the option of a Jester role in the game. His vote is iffy to me, because he realizes the option of a Jester yet hammers, without reason, a Townie. You giving him wiggle room isn't helping.

@Mod

[007] Quoting: Don’t quote any PMs from me.

Do you mean literally putting the information in a Quote, or not paraphrasing? And, is this true?

Mod note:

I think my rule above is clearly written (=quoting is not okay, but I never mention paraphrasing so that is okay), and I won't answer if what is below is true or not.

From the mod's advice I will no longer be referencing exactly what was said in my PMs. I will paraphrase, and that will just have to be good enough.

Vote count

(8 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(1) Gremwell – Mariyta

Not voting:

Gremwell, MafiaMann, Rage, raverblood, sekinj, Singing Librarian, thinktank

Deadline:

Thursday 4 September 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Rage]

I was asking you to reconsider saying Gremwell's vote wasn't hasty, yet saying we were close to a deadline

with consequences for Town.

Fixed.

[Rage]

Oh, hey, someone bought my vote today.

[Rage]

Yes, that was the wording used in a private message sent to me by the mod.

[Rage]

Typically, when someone "buys" your vote, it means you become corrupt. Do you (or anyone else) have any more information on this?

No. The private message only said that someone bought my vote for today. This has happened before in the game, but not to me.

I don't have a vote today. Someone stole it during the night somehow. I don't know whether it's a scum power or a town power, but it's definitely out there, hence part of my decision to believe sekinj, knowing that there are some unusual things going on by night. It's also something we need to be aware of (being forewarned of this surely helps town more than scum), as every day there's likely to be someone who has not got control over their own vote, which will make lynches that much harder.

@Sekinj, how do you feel about Mass Claim? I'm not saying whether I believe this is true or not, but according to your information everyone has a night choice but you. Do you think a Mass Claim in this circumstance would be beneficial to the Town?

Also, do you have anything to say about this:

I was asking you to reconsider saying Gremwell's vote wasn't hasty, yet saying we were close to a deadline. From what I can tell, his reasoning was:

vote ogml

though I think the jester role would fit well in "the barons court"

Basically, that's saying nothing about his vote for OhGodMyLife, and considering the option of a Jester role in the game. His vote is iffy to me, because he realizes the option of a Jester yet hammers, without reason, a Townie. You giving him wiggle room isn't helping.

[Rage]

I wouldn't mind gather OTHER info though... maybe sex, first names, nicknames, sections... Not all of that, and certainly not all at once, but I wouldn't mind knowing a bit more about people... and I'd really love it if the scum would just raise their hand too...

(my favorite is sex )

You know, that actually isn't a bad idea. And that could be one way to "test your sanity", because you have said that you know how many of each gender there are in the game. Unless someone objects, that might be a way to clear some things up. I mean, the only thing that comes to mind is proving how reliable Sekinj's information is, but you never know what could be Knowledge-related.

I've already stated this, but my character is Female (and I am a Male in real life).

[Rage]

I fail to see how gender information could protect scum. This proposition is based on whether or not Sekinj tells the truth, and he can't really not do that unless one of his potential scum members answers the question last. Maybe we should make a randomized list of players to answer the question in a certain order?

[Rage]

Oh, I will be out all day without the chance to post much, and I will be back late today.

[Rage]

Im against this i think sekinj is insane but why give the scum a chance to make us think she sane if shes not that could really mess us up to. I think we can win this game with or without sekinjs hints.

Im male in game and rl

What changed your mind, MafiaMann?

[Rage]

It won't solve much, but I'd say let them answer on their own. We have time.

[Rage]

So.. I'm under the assumption that OhGodMyLife had no night action. A Squire makes sense as a vanilla.

[Rage]

In no way does my nickname correlate to what I can and cannot do to a play during Day.

Vote: Sekinj

[Rage]

In no way does my nickname correlate to what I can and cannot do to a

player

during Day.

Fixed.

[Rage]

Your nickname is in no way descriptive of your character?

Oh it is definitely descriptive of my character, but that is not the same as how I am allowed to play the game. It's also very relative to my role-name, but I wouldn't mind giving it away. I also don’t mind claiming right here and now, but that’s not usually how things are done.

However, the names of the roles, like chancellor or squire, cannot in themselves indicate a night choice or not. Each of us has a different role name, there arn't just 3 townies and 2 scum. These are not your regular roles, people. Look at the trouble we had with BeastMaster. How does anyone know for sure the beastnaster character had a night action?? Maybe we have a Butler role, but what night action would that character have? my point is, we cannot speculate about the night choices with only the role name to go on. The role name in itself gives us next to no information, while the nickname is significant.

Are you proposing that role names have no significance in this game? That they are a representation of nicknames, not the other way around?

Mariyta, you mentioned something may be missing, and I think whatever it is, it's on purpose. When a player dies only their name and role-name are given, nothing indicating night choice. This has happened three times, three different players. Therefore, we can only trust someone's word, which is null unless their role has been confirmed, and we haven't achieved this with OhGodMyLife, nor have we with Sekinj, nor anyone yet. I'm think I'm at a pretty solid part of the game right now that I am capable of confirming my role to the Town, which is why I'm fine with giving out any necessary information. I'll prove that my nickname gives me no limitations, and no restrictions, as Sekinj is implying OhGodMyLife had against him.

[Rage]

Oh, I see a lot was posted before I made my latest post, so I'll read through that and answer it later. But I'll be having limited access to a computer today and tomorrow, and should be able to get online very late in the day, which is no biggie.

[Rage]

My nickname makes sense, but does not affect my actual play in any way. I suppose it's possible that OGML's reflected some part of his role as squires are not generally known for their capriciousness - or are they? I'm not overly convinced, though.

My vague suspicion of thinktank is increasing due to refusal to reveal gender - how could it possibly do any harm? Also, is it me or was mafiamann's flip-flop on that issue rather alarming? I suppose at least thinktank is sticking to his/her guns on the issue rather than drifting with the wind.

Ive explained my flip flop im not gonna withhold info from the town i they want it.

But I was the only one who asked for it..

[Rage]

We are quite the active players, aren't we? Well, I always have something to say, so I might as well recount some events.

To recap, Sekinj claims to be the only player who has no night action/choice. OhGodMyLife counterclaims, saying he has no night action. OhGodMyLife is lynched and flips Town, name and role revealed. Sekinj claims that OhGodMyLife must have had to counterclaim him because his nickname is/was 'Capricious'.

@Sekinj, is that the only reason why the Town should not lynch you right now? It seems to me that the only thing keeping you alive right now is WIFOM, that

you

presented, and now you have moved past this and are attacking thinktank.

And regarding the recent troubles between Sekinj and Thinktank:

Thinktank never answered or even commented on Mar’s point about him flip-flopping. IMO that has beent he biggest scum-tell yet in this game. I’d like to see him explain himself now.

I'd also like to hear what Thinktank has to say regarding Mariyta's post (below):

I see a few possibilities besides OMGL is lieing or sekinj is lieing...

I like this. One of them doesn't necessarily have to be scum, they could both be somewhere in between. I still need to hear from OMGL though..

We know definitely that one of them is lying. Figuring out which one is lying is a herculean feat in itself because it seems that even they do not know which one of them is lying. Meaning either one or both of them are scum or some of the information that they've been given is false, which is also bad for the town.

A) Which is it? B) Do you still feel the same?

[Rage]

EBWOP:

well, now that the weekend is over... What does everyone think? I think thinktank...

Fixed. (no I wasn't drunk)

Wait, how is that fixed? You "think thinktank"? Still doesn't make sense to me.

[Rage]

Gremwell: OMGUS much?

You claim everything is OMGUS. I'm going to ignore it whenever you say that from now on.

I'm starting to think this way too. Mariyta, all you say about someone's arguments against you if you happen to be suspicious of them at the time is "OMGUS much?" That doesn't disprove their reasoning, nor help either side of the argument. You just dismiss the argument and focus on

Well, since I know my PM i think the town should not lynch because I am town. I realize that not everyone else has that insider knowledge. However, the scum out there are frothing at the mouth trying to get me lynching since they know that BOTH me and OGML are town. I really don't know what other evidence I can really present. At some point you just have to take the leap that my claim and OGML's count was not a black and white scum v town issue. Now, if it takes my lynch to prove that, then okay, but if we have two mislynches ina row AND have to continue without my info, I don't think the town can win.

You know, I could totally understand intense amounts of pressure on an informative role, especially this early in the game, but the problem is that the information you have given the Town just doesn't make any sense. As far as I know, knowing the gender of each player doesn't really help, and so far has proved your sanity. You gave out the following information on Day 1:

I got a whole list clues, but I can't play all my cards at once, or we could find scum.

I'll share two things for now:

First: almost all of us have night powers of some sort, 10 in fact. I am one of the few who has none.

Second: Whoever has a first name starting with the letter B is a pro-town character.

1) The first was counterclaimed by our dead Squire, OhGodMyLife. The second is iffy, since it has the possibility to confirm both scum and town. You see, on one hand, you present this information and scum claims a fake first name starting with B. They bring up this information, and suspicions against them die down. On the other hand, a Town member could just as easily do the same, so ultimately, it comes down to whether or not we believe the role they claim alongside it, and whatever other information they give out about their character. All in all, releasing this information is not a pro-town move.

2) You played some cards yesterday, so now, today, if there is any information that you think would benefit Town more than Scum to know, would you be so kind as to release it? Don't be surprised if I am suspicious of the information, though.

It is far more likely that either Sekinj is scum or she is insane.

She says she isn't insane.

It is very important for everyone to note: I do not believe I am insane anymore. OGML's nickname proved to me that he was the one who was being irrational.

And OhGodMyLife's nickname may prove to you, Sekinj, that he was irrational, but I've said that my nickname doesn't designate what I can do to players, like you are implying with OhGodMyLife. It describes my character, which all nicknames should, but my nickname does not give me any sort of restriction, nor induces tunnel-vision. You've said that OhGodMyLife counterclaimed you because he had to, but I don't believe you. If he was forced to counterclaim, he probably would not have given up in the end:

Unvote

sekinj, is there any conceivable way for you to have been given false information?

Therefore, I'm under the impression that you are a panicking scum. That's why you earned my vote.

[Rage]

Gremwell: OMGUS much?

You claim everything is OMGUS. I'm going to ignore it whenever you say that from now on.

I'm starting to think this way too. Mariyta, all you say about someone's arguments against you if you happen to be suspicious of them at the time is "OMGUS much?" That doesn't disprove their reasoning, nor help either side of the argument. You just dismiss the argument and focus on more important events, like now how you have proved Sekinj's defense as craplogic, and before, on Day 1, how you encouraged information out of both Sekinj and OhGodMyLife but earlier used "OMGUS much" against Sekinj, who asked you to give out information.

I forgot to finish the first paragraph. Fixed now.

[Rage]

Therefore, I'm under the impression that you are a panicking scum. That's why you earned my vote.

^ Understandable... But I never panic... so I can't be scum...

Everyone does. Suck it up!

and I find it hypocritcal that you tell me to give more info, and then say the info I give isn't pro-town.

That isn't hypocritical. Of course, that is if I am allowed to interpret the information and not just hang on your every word, right?

[Rage]

Because right now it is the only thing keeping you alive. That, and possibly your persistent attack on thinktank.

[Rage]

I've said that the information you released before is more scummy than pro-town, yes, but I have not said that all your information is, because I don't know it. Once again, not hypocritical.

If anything, I'm encouraging the chance for you to keep yourself alive. All this time, you haven't said a thing that gives me the impression you deserve to live/continue playing; you're on your way to nitpicking at what I'm saying to turn it into a reason why you don't have to give out information. And that is not a pro-town action in my eyes.

So you WANT to keep me alive? if you want to keep me alive, why are you voting me?

It's not up to me whether you live or die, but it is up to me whether or not I pressure you and try my best to convince the rest of the Town to lynch you. If you give out information that is beneficial for the Town to know, I will not pressure you. If you give out information that is not beneficial to the Town, like your previous information has been, I will. Of course, you could always choose not to give out information and continue your suspicions on Thinktank if you think that is the most pro-town action you can do, but to me that would prove you have no Pro-Town information to give out. In other words, that would mean you are scum. Prove me wrong.

giving info is not pro-town

That's not what I'm saying at all. Allow me:

-->

sekinj gives out information to prove role

-->

OhGodMyLife counterclaims information, and Rage says information benefits Scum more than Town to know

-->

OhGodMyLife is lynched, flips Town

-->

Next Day, Sekinj presents WIFOM about OhGodMyLife's role; how it could mean that he was forced to counterclaim Sekinj's information

-->

Rage votes Sekinj, saying his nickname does not designate what he can do to a player

-->

Rage asks Sekinj to present more information to prove his innocence

Is this correct?

[Rage]

I'm here.

[Rage]

Oops, I didn't mean for that to look so empty. I'm going to do a reread of the game, and focus on MafiaMann.

[Rage]

Sekinj, what do you think about the other 5 players in this game?

I'm going to post my thoughts later, too, but after I'm done my reread.

[Rage]

I'm going to be away all weekend (August 30 - September 1) without any access to a computer. I hope that isn't too much of an inconvenience!

[Rage]

There's a simple solution for that, Mariyta. Reread.

I started a pbpa of mafiamann last week, but abandoned it because looking at him in isolation I didn't find as many scummy things as I thought I would. I agree that he is suspicious, but I like the case on thinktank. I don't think his flip-flopping can be marked up to 'flipancy' as he claims. I don't think MM deciding to claim gender along with the rest fo the town is as strong. in fact another scummy thing I think think did was to NOT claim gender alogn with the rest of the town.

i dont see how not telling a gender role is scummy. i dont see how it hurts or helps town.. i gave mine just to give info. i feel not telling is a scum tell. now if every started giving out more info and one feels to hides it then yeah ok. but gender does nothing... unless someone has a list on how many scum are male or female

I was trying to come up with a way to prove that Sekinj's information is sane, and as such, I can pretty much tell that neither OhGodMyLife or Sekinj misinterpreted their information. They made that clear a bunch of times, but I found it suspicious that OhGodMyLife would unvote only to ask Sekinj once more if her information was correct. Now that he's flipped Town, I don't understand why Sekinj has said that his nickname implied he had to counterclaim her. As I've said a couple times before, my nickname does not imply what I can do to a player.

And, by the way, if we need something to discuss, I'd be more than happy to claim my role, name and nickname.

[Rage]

Woah, woah, I don't want everyone to claim their nicknames unless we reach a consensus to. I just said that

I'd

be more than happy to claim, as the Town doesn't have anything to lose by knowing it.

Anyways, this is my last post until Tuesday, or late Monday.

[Rage]

Returned and catching up now. I should be back to my usual activity by tomorrow morning, and I want to answer this before I go to bed.

@grem: I'd like to see you post a case on someone anyway

so what does this mean? we'll all take a break as the deadline nears and put one player on the spot?

..duh. No one, myself included, has presented much of a case on anyone else, so we pressure one player. It just so happens to be you.

I haven't posted a case on anyone because I haven't seen enough evidence on any one to justify a vote at this point.

You need a vote to pressure someone?

One question I'd like everyone on the OGML lynch to answer is why you voted for him?

At first I wanted more reasoning behind his counterclaim of Sekinj, but even after other players expressed their interests in hearing more information too, he argued against it. Then, seeing little to no way that either Sekinj of OhGodMyLife would give up information, seeing as how both made sure that they didn't misinterpret their roles and the information given to them, I decided to continue against OhGodMyLife, because it just seemed, and seems, very obvious to me that in a game of mafia whoever has the bulk of information will become very suspicious, or at least have to really prove their worth. Such as a scum fakeclaiming a Cop, if they are proven wrong, they lose. I can totally understand a pro-town informative role being looked at oddly, because it is so easy to lie in mafia, but seeing OhGodMyLife turn up Town is making me reconsider my view of Sekinj.

And then, when we started to move past our desperate search for information, OhGodMyLife backed off of Sekinj and asked the question, which goes something like, "Is there any way you could have misinterpreted your information?", and I honestly did not believe a word OhGodMyLife was saying after that. That's why I pushed for a nameclaim, something that I myself could prove and turn the tide of the battle between Sekinj and OGML, but he protested revealing even that, his own name, and when I pushed on the fact that if he were to be lynched he would give it up anyways, he turned his vote to me and continued to dismiss every argument I had against him away. As you can probably tell, I didn't like that, because no only did it seem scummy to be voting for a player advocating more information for the Town to decide upon a lynch, but it also seemed odd that after so much pressure on him and that he had started against Sekinj, he would give up his counterclaim and ask once again if Sekinj had misinterpreted her information, which she has not.

Oh, and now my case against Sekinj is that it is scummy to me that she would bring up the possibility of her being insane, and then agreeing with Mariyta, which

looks

to me like scum buddying with a townie, for pressure against thinktank, because right after a Town-flip/mislynch who had counterclaimed her it seems scummy for Sekinj to be deflecting attention to thinktank, who I think is not the one the Town should pressure as we approach a deadline, which we have had a bit of trouble with in the past.

Also, I want to say this again, that I really want to claim. Voice your opinion, damnit!

[Rage]

Oh, wow, a lot of crossposting. Well, more for me to read tomorrow.

Now, sleep!

[Rage]

Fairus Wheel or

Ferris

Wheel?

What do you think of me claiming, Mariyta?

.. or anyone, seeing as how we've all gone mysteriously quiet.

[Rage]

I would be an avid supporter of pressure on Gremwell right now, but I couldn't help noticing something yesterday. Nobody made a comment on my votes, AND they were counted in the Vote Counts. So either this "mysterious vote-stealer" who's sometimes known as a Lawyer, is for flavour purposes (which is why it appeared that I could vote) or they are inactive (meaning they couldn't have seen me place my vote on anyone), or finally, I'm the mysterious vote-stealer, which I can prove otherwise.

Anyways, as I know I don't have the power to steal anyone's vote, I'm inclined to think that this Lawyer-type role is somebody who's inactive. Although yesterday there were quite a lot of arguments thrown back and forth, which for the most part has already continued on to today, so my votes

may

have been overlooked, but I don't think that's the case, and that we should play it safe. Now, I'll role claim if need be, but I definitely want a role claim out of Raverblood. He was the player with the least amount of posts yesterday and off the top of my head, I can't remember if he even made one. Besides, do we really want a player to rarely contribute? Especially one that has been called out on poor grammar? I'd like to prove, as much as possible, that he's at least pro-town.

Vote: Raverblood

For a role claim, and I have no problems doing it first.

Also,

Gremwell still has been utterly useless

and has avoided direct requests for him to post

. He's still my choice right now.

Vote Gremwell

Post your case then please

I assume this is directed at MafiaMann, but even so, what the hell, man! How much bigger of a hint do you need for you to post? And if anyone

should

be posting a case on someone, it should be you, Gremwell. You're second on my list of suspects for today, right behind Raverblood and ahead of Sekinj, because I can't believe she's still alive.

Dare I say it, but it seems odd to me that Sekinj has survived for this long. This is just mild speculation, of course, but it leaves me wondering if she's part of a Cult, or possibly the Leader who claims to have no night action to out a townie while appearing as pro-town as possible.

Finally, my suspicions of MafiaMann have died down considerably since yesterday. I can't get a pro-town read on him, yet at the same time I can't get an anti-town. So, he's definitely someone I'm keeping my eye on.

[Rage]

Gremwell, could I get this cleared up, from your most recent post:

Ok, we had a no lynch yesterday and so far no ill effects, not only that but no one died last night, I'm just wondering if I'm the only one wondering why?

1. Why what?
2. No lynches usually give the Town more information because we get to see who Scum targets, usually correlating to what suspicions were thrown in the Day before.

And as for not participating, there are several players doing less than me, but if you must have a case from me on someone . . .

I can think of only one player who has contributed less, content-wise and not total posts, than you throughout the game, Raverblood. Could you name the others?

sekinj,

most obviously for the first day binary lynch

, most of us believed it was one or the other,

and near the end OGML attempted to reconcile any misunderstanding either of them may have had

.

Is he your only suspect?

Underlined: "Binary lynch" as in, "Either Sekinj or OhGodMyLife is scum"?
Italics: Yet you put the hammer vote on OhGodMyLife, and we still don't exactly know why.

The claim seems much to early in the game and so far is zero for one in the information we've been given.

My claim or my request to Raverblood?

and yesterday, in a time where we had little or no leads, no attempt was made to use one piece of that information to formulate some semblance of a lead.

Please reread Day 2.

Vote count

(8 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(1) Gremwell - Mariyta
(1) raverblood - Rage

Not voting:

Gremwell, MafiaMann, PimHel, raverblood, sekinj, thinktank

Deadline:

Sunday 28 September 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Rage]

@Mod,

did PimHel replace Singing Librarian?

Mod Note:

Yes

if there are 3 scum then we're at MyLo

Did you mean Lynch or Lose?

[Rage]

I've been having internet problems today, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to post much, or at all, nor when I can.

[Rage]

- @Mafiaman: you did an 'Ensorcel' action on day one, but not day two. That makes me very curious. Can you tell us why? Is it at all possible you'll perform this action today? (I won't hold it against you if you can't answer this.)

Gremwell has also did a "dispel" action on Sekinj earlier.. today, I believe.

Is there anything you would like me to address?

[Rage]

I want role claim, but it's not as important as one from Gremwell.

Also, I want to know whether or not you want me to claim.

[Rage]

Then do it!! this goes for everyone who has said they are fine with name claiming!

I'm okay with a name claim, but I don't think it's a good idea for me to reveal my nickname until I reveal my role. It's very indicative of my role.

That's why I want to hear who wants me to role claim, but I have no problem doing so.

[Rage]

Why are you so eager to get names, sekinj?

as I've said about a MILLION times, I need info to bounce off the stuff I know. Plus, nothing else is happening in this game, everyone just keeps posting that their willing to claim if someone else claims first,

or if everyone else okays it

, well woopy, put your money where your mouth is.

Underlined = scummy to be against

Anyways, Sekinj, do you have any name-related information other than that "b" thing you brought up early Day 1?

[Rage]

Keira Whitmore

Recap

(list taken from first post in thread):

Gremwell

= Zander Ponderly

Mariyta

= Frederic "Honor" Evergreen

qwints

(replacing raverblood) = Camille Venderton

sekinj

= Chancellor Jeeves "Sage" Templeton

Rage

= Keira Whitmore

PimHel

(replacing Singing Librarian) = ???

thinktank

= ???

MafiaMann

= Ephraim Farlhume

Cass

= ???

So we're waiting for PimHel, thinktank, and Cass to nameclaim.

[Rage]

Just waiting on Cass now.

Updated Recap

:

Gremwell

= Zander Ponderly

Mariyta

= Frederic "Honor" Evergreen

qwints

(

replacing raverblood

) = Camille Venderton

sekinj

= Chancellor Jeeves "Sage" Templeton

Rage

= Keira Whitmore

PimHel

(

replacing Singing Librarian

) = Garland Saberfield

thinktank

= Irving Ash

MafiaMann

= Ephraim Farlhume

Cass

= ???

[Rage]

im not telling

What if I go first?

Updated Again Recap

:

Gremwell

= Zander Ponderly

Mariyta

= Frederic "Honor" Evergreen

qwints

(

replacing raverblood

) = Camille Venderton

sekinj

= Chancellor Jeeves "Sage" Templeton

Rage

= Keira Whitmore

PimHel

(

replacing Singing Librarian

) = Garland Saberfield

thinktank

= Irving Ash

MafiaMann

= Ephraim Farlhume

Cass

= Sir Lothar Guile

All right, so nobody was …stupid?... enough to claim with a B for their first name, which means that either Sekinj is lying or scum is playing it “smart”. Anyways, back to the list of names, I have some role-related information I’d like to share. But first, I will role claim.

I am the Scribe, who has the ability to send a message anonymously to any player in the game once each night. My nickname is "

Dotty

". I’ve successfully sent a message to three players, and they know what they have to do now. Paraphrased, the flavor text for my role is:

"The Baron has asked for your advice before and has come to trust you, asking for your opinion many times. It seems as though there are elements in the Baron's staff that he distrusts, so he's asked you to make your own notes (see "Duty") and hand over them to one of the servants."

My duty is to send my top three suspects to the moderator, accompanied with my night action, every night.

Anyways, I’ve mentioned this Knowledge a lot throughout the game, so it’s about time you guys know what I was talking about. I know that a player with the letter “C” starting one of their names has received suspicious looking letters (I don’t know what’s in them, just that my character finds them suspicious). This information was given to me in my role message, not added to in any way, so I doubt it was talking about one of my letters.

So, the only player who has claimed with a "C" has been Raverblood's replacement, qwints. I'd like to know exactly what letters you are receiving, because I certainly haven't sent one to you, and two players that I did send my letter to have had a bit of discussion between each other early Day 2.

And please, whoever has received an anonymous letter, or a letter in
general, other than Qwints, please do not quote it at all until Qwints has responded. Thanks.

[Rage]

FIne you know what ill tell you i ensorcel someone i than have the ability to switch their postitions at night or switch their targets the first night i switched sekinji because i thought his info may make him a target.

Switched his night-action or switched night-actions on him? And, to whom?

This is crucial stuff!

[Rage]

I acknowledge the existance of the scribe (because I was given an anon letter to do so).

I also don't like qwint's response. I was not responsible for OGML's death. I was not even voting him.

THanks MM

Confirmed. My Night 0 message was sent to Sekinj, who at the time was Gimbo, because I had no reason to send it to anyone else. And I was playing another game with Gimbo at the time, and didn't recognize anyone else. It doesn't really matter why I chose Sekinj/Gimbo, though, 'cause I'm sure that the majority of Night 0 actions were based on either metagaming, or luck.

@Qwints, I'm definitely not believing you. Here's why:

I received no anonymous letters.

I didn't ask if you received anonymous letters, I asked if you received any letters at all. This isn't incriminating right now, per se, it's just something I'd like to point out.

I was told in my flavor text, however, about someone sent by someone else to the area (some of you will know what I'm talking about.)

I was told in my Knowledge, which to me means more than flavour text, if what you are saying is at all true. Besides, I don't think the "suspicious letters" was as literal as it was "this person is scum".

I suppose that knowledge could have come by way of a mysterious letter.

I don't understand this. Are you saying that I've received a mysterious letter, or that your flavour text may have been given to you by a mysterious letter? Either way, it doesn't make sense because flavour text is just that, flavour, and my Knowledge made no indication that I received it by letter.

I have to say that I find sekinj extremely suspicious at the moment. He seems to have been demonstrably wrong at least once (though I suppose it might have been a good scum-trap.)

Scum-trap, where? Evidence, please!

He was primarily responsible for the death of OGML, and ThAdmiral was critical of him.

1. Yes, Sekinj may have been responsible for OhGodMyLife's death, but if she's telling the truth, then not only is that not her fault, because if true that was information given to her, although it was strange that she didn't pressure OhGodMyLife as hard as the rest of the Town was doing, but that also does not clear her name.

2. Sure, ThAdmiral was pro-town, but there's no way we could know that he had any outsider information on Sekinj, because we don't even know what a Cook is. Scribe sounds like what it does, but I just can't imagine, in a Baron's Court, a Cook being some sort of an informative role, like a Cop.

He has sought lots of information and tried to explain away of suspicion.

But she's said that the reason why she's doing that is because others (like myself and Mariyta) have asked for her information with nothing in return, and she has also said that she'll only reveal information when needed. If there's anything scummy about that, it's that she can make up whatever she wants and it influences the town's decision, but I doubt that's going to happen.

Although, I am pretty interested as to why a role like her's hasn't already been killed, but, and this is just me guessing, it may have something to do with MafiaMann.

So, overall, I don't like your defense. This, coupled with when I brought up earlier today that yesterday Raverblood was the only person who didn't make a comment after I voted many times, makes you earn my vote.

Vote: Qwints

I want a role-claim from you. I also want to hear from the player that received an anonymous letter on Night the First (Night 1).

[Rage]

I also talked about your reasoning behind your vote on Sekinj. Mind commenting on that or did I get a pretty-much accurate read on what exactly you are basing your vote on?

[Rage]

Nope, you made a pretty accurate read.

However, I don't think that a lack of outside information removes suspicion from sekinj. ThAdmiral was still pressing against sekinj before he was killed. OGML's death was completely due to sekinj.

His requests for information still bother me, though a re-read does show they didn't come out of the blue.

So.. I proved your suspicion/vote wrong. No?

Anyways, on a

possibly

related note, I find it confusing that now that MafiaMann has been confronted with pressure he doesn't (or hasn't) posted his thoughts/suspicions on other people, like he has done on both of the previous days. He just comes in to say that he's already said something before, which he hasn't gone into depth about (his role's abilities) or to say, or say that he won't say, something about his role.

FIne you know what ill tell you i ensorcel someone i than have the ability to switch their postitions at night or switch their targets the first night i switched sekinji because i thought his info may make him a target.

Does this mean you can either switch who the player you "ensorcel" targets AND/OR switch any targets on them to someone else? Please explain.

So, the letter-sending and the 'Duty' are two separate night actions? With the first being optional and the second obligatory? Is that right? Would you mind sharing your 'top three' of N0 and N1 with us?

1. I don't have two night-actions, because only one affects the game. The other, I assume, is just so that the Moderator can follow along with the game without getting involved during Day. Plus, I've always sent my "suspects list" to the Moderator in the same message as my letter, and who to send it to, and although I have received "confirmation" that my letters have gone through, I haven't received anything regarding my suspects. Therefore, I agree with you that my letter-sending ability is optional, because all night-actions are (unless explained otherwise) and I would call my Duty

Oh and I'd just like to point out that my "Duty" is listed second in my role message under "Power". For comparison, another area of my role message is "Knowledge" which told me that someone with "C" beginning any of their names was receiving suspicious letters.

2. Sure thing. On N0 I didn't send in any suspects, because I had no reason to suspect anyone. It was accepted, though.

On N1, I was suspicious of Sekinj, Gremwell and MafiaMann, so I sent those names in. On N2, it was the same, but I was less suspicious of MafiaMann. Right now, though, that suspicion has been reaffirmed.

In other news, Gremwell hasn't posted recently. He was asked questions before, and I don't think we have heard from him since.


------
If I had to take a stab at who I think is scum, I'd pick qwints, then definitely Gremwell, next in line is MafiaMann, and finally Cass.

Cass I chose because I don't trust new additions to the game. To me, there is no way to know to whom they are aligned, and arises detrimental factors to our pro-town power roles. If it's necessary for an additional player (like it probably would have been to save OhGodMyLife) then not only do I wonder how powerful our pro-town power roles are, but have they wasted any of their night actions? I mean, I don't have much of a power, other than to confirm myself, and we don't even know the dead Cook's power. MafiaMann has claimed to have the ability to switch targets, but hasn't developed on it at all.

Which is why, before anything else, I want a role claim from MafiaMann. I also want him to explain why he switched night actions from Sekinj, and on to whom.

One from qwints would be very nice as well, but I apparently won't get that until more players think like me, which is very hard considering only three people know my role exists.

@Everyone

, I'm going to be very inactive this weekend, so I want to answer questions as soon as possible, so don't hold out if you have anything to say to me, or need to respond to anything that I've asked of you.

[Rage]

Hey! I just noticed that cross-posting is what happens when I spend an hour on a post!

So everyone currently alive except sekinj has a night action?

Please don't ask this. @Everyone else, please don't answer this. If you are scum, you are exposing town power-roles. If you are town, you don't need to know.

[Rage]

I still think sekinj pushed for more information than anyone else has.

I am, however, reading the defenses of sekinj as relatively solid proof of his good character, if not his truthfulness.

These quotes were taken from two of your posts, with one of Mariyta's in between asking you if you thought that any "vanilla" sort of roles, like OhGodMyLife

claimed

to be, because we still don't know for sure.

Anyways, the points you make in these quotes don't go hand in hand, either way (pro or anti-town). Firstly, Sekinj has already defended against your suspicions before, and it was explained that she was asking for information in return for her own. I found that pretty clear, and she still lives.

Secondly, you haven't convinced me at all. It seems to me that you are making things up as you go about those suspicious letters that I accused your character of getting. Now, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, that I do not think whether or not you have received letters is any indication of your alignment, but I do think that because this information was given to me, it means you are scum. The way I see my Knowledge is alike to information a Cop receives from an investigation. On one hand, it's lucky the Cop gets a guilty read in a closed setup because you never know what to expect, so he's on the look-out for people to investigate (like always). On the other hand, the Scum who was investigated doesn't know that there is a Cop, let alone that they were investigated, so they continue playing until they are accused and can come up with a defense. In this case, you gave out the information I needed to accuse you of being scum and I find that very indicative of your alignment. Then again, I'm not saying I don't care about your defense, I am saying that your defense to my Knowledge has been "I haven't got any letters" which is not helpful to anyone.

In short, I don't think the word "letters" proves your alignment, or is a good defense, and I think that the word "suspicious" does.

On the other hand, I can confirm one of her statements. At one point, she said there were three known section, one unknown and one that would come into use. I know that there are five possible rooms: The village inn, the stables, the guest quarters and the mansion's left and right wing. Rage has also confirmed that a note was sent to her. Can anyone else confirm information from sekinj?

I don't get how you can confirm Sekinj's information that there are 5 possible "rooms". He did say there were five, and how do you know about the mansion's left and right wings? I didn't even know there was a mansion.

Qwints, where do you stay at night? I forgot to say that I stay at the Village Inn at night.

Not to mention the fact that a lot of players seem to have unique win conditions based on what happens to another player.

How do you know? The only thing I can remember was that there was talk between a few players mid-Day 2 (I think) that they died if another player died.

Given other player's reactions and a re-read, it seems clear that those were not as scummy as they seemed at first glance.

Do you still find Sekinj suspicious? If so, are you going to take a look at the players that have most recently defended her?

Now on to Gremwell,

Gremwell, top two suspects please, and why.

my top two would be

quints, for the initial push on sekinj, which now since challenged is steadily starting to flip

think- for what looks to be grasping at straws with his last post and an all around sense of him throwing his opinion around without really knowing whats going on

Also MM for the recent silence when being questioned directly.


on an unrelated note, did anyone have their vote stolen last night?

I love how he responds right away to this. It's not an indication of scumminess, it's just something I noticed gameplay-wise that's different than before, when he was being pressured.

quints, for the initial push on sekinj, which now since challenged is steadily starting to flip

I don't understand your reasoning. Do you mean that because Qwints has been the first to bring up a case on Sekinj, and that it is now dwindling down to nothing, you find him suspicious? Do you believe my claim/role? Do you believe the information that my role has received, and I've told?

Also MM for the recent silence when being questioned directly.

You've had recent silence too. Much more-so than MafiaMann, at least he has acknowledged the questions asked to him, whereas before you were deflecting rather than answering the questions directed at you.

---
Phew!

[Rage]

Although this is a quote from Gremwell, what I'm going to say addresses everyone.

I find the letter argument more important right now, and I do buy your claim, whether its a town role or not remains to be seen. but I do know someone has been sending letters, based on that I'm inclined to believe you.

Does anyone want to counterclaim my role?

And, yes, Gremwell, you do know that at least one letter has been sent.

I'm in the left wing of the mansion. My knowledge is what told me about the various rooms. Rage - there's nothing I can do to refute your knowledge. I think I've been consistent in my answers if unclear in my wording. My flavor text tells me I have acquired knowledge before the game started.

I think I know what role you're hinting at.. but balance-wise it wouldn't make sense. That is, if you are pro-town. I won't say more until you've claimed, though, because otherwise I'm giving you wiggle room.

[Rage]

Allright, here's my claim.

I am the Baroness. My full name is Lady Camille Vanderton. My power is an ability to move people between quarters at night and a one shot command ability for servants. I know that a messenger has come from the Prince to try to cleanse the area of a supernatural. (This was the information that came from a letter.) My predecessor never moved anyone.)

I have no choice but to reveal my identity and ask for loyalty from the servants.

Rage, I order you to vote for MafiaMann

vote MafiaMann

MafiaMann has failed to adequately explain what ensorsel meant and seems to be less than cooperative.

Maybe rage isn't a servant....
This will only work if rage is not a servant-

thinktank vote:MafiaMann

FoS Qwints
Vote: MafiaMann

First off, yes, I have to vote for MafiaMann now. I had to confirm the consequences of me not voting for MM, which has been settled. And I wanted to wait until Thinktank had posted, because that way Town would know if Qwints' ability was, in fact, one-shot.

But, what I want to know now is, why would you, Qwints, use this ability on

me

? I'm the only player who has brought up information that relates to you being scum, and you try to silence me by forcing my vote on someone else? And why did you think Scribe was a servant role?

Next, I'm calling the second of the quotes above completely ridiculous. I use servants to send my letters, so why would it make sense if I was one? Your ability has worked on me, so I really don't understand how it could only work on servants.

Just like how I think the Mod is the Baron, I think servants do not exist in this game, or that every player is your servant. The latter seems more likely.

Plus, if you flip scum, you've confirmed me of not being your scum buddy by using this "one shot" ability on me instead of one of the less active players. You have also almost confirmed Thinktank, too, because he is your

second

target for your

one shot

ability that apparently only works on servants. Yet I shouldn't be a servant.

Lastly, you've put my interest in both sekinj and MafiaMann because it seems likely that you are bussing one of them. Sekinj, because you put crap reason against him, that you now have moved on from, when I first presented information against you, which I could easily see as deflecting to a scum-buddy to appear pro-town, and MafiaMann, who looks like a mislynch of a power-role to me more than anything else, and because you chose him for my vote.

--------------------------------
Again at Qwints, I hope you realize that my information still holds true. The only way I can prove it is by your lynch, which now I have absolutely zero problems with. You'd have my vote if you didn't make the bad decision to take it away.

Regarding that decision, the only logical outcome of it by limiting my voting capabilities is to force a mislynch, of MafiaMann, like I mentioned earlier.
--------------------------------

Now I clear some things up:

I also find Sekinj a bit suspect - but that is mainly because it is hard to trust a chancellor flavor-wise, the chancellor would be obv-scum. But as I said, her information is true, the trap was a smart and pro-town move imo and she seems to be scum-hunting.

I agree that an informative role early in the game could and should have this much pressure on them, but I don't necessarily read Sekinj as scum because of the information she claims to have, but because Qwints stopped advocating her lynch now that he's on to MafiaMann.

@mar: if quintz is the baroness and you believe she is hooking up with the sorcerer, do you believe as Rage does that MM is the sorcerer? If so, why would qwints be voting him?

Thanks for correctly

assuming

that I though MafiaMann was this aforementioned "sorcerer"/"magician". Although, I think his role has something to do with who people target, and probably something to do with ThAdmiral's death. No way to know for sure until he claims, though.

--------------------------------

@Everyone, please do not vote for MafiaMann and lynch Qwints instead.

[Rage]

Woah, reading this again, I didn't realize how much wiggle room Cass was giving Qwints. Notice the underlined parts..

@qwints: what made you think Rage is a 'servant'? Or thinktank?

Is changing votes the only thing you could have commanded? Or could you, say, command someone to claim or to direct their night action to a specific target, to name a few examples?

Scribe seemed like a servant role to me. When it didn't work, I decided it to try on a player who hadn't claimed to see what happened. If rage eventually follows the command, then my command to thinktank will do nothing.

I could have commanded someone to claim, but I don't know if that would have guaranteed a truthful claim or just that they say something about their role. I could not have commanded a night action, only an action during the day.

Also, qwints' first paragraph in the quote above doesn't make sense. How did he know his one-shot ability didn't work? Why would I have to follow the command for it to work, because in the time that I received the 'command' message, thinktank posted and he didn't vote for MafiaMann.
-----------------------

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that rage followed my order confirms that he is town. I think he is wrong about me, but I think he is honestly wrong. I used my one shot ability today because I thought there was a chance I would be incorrectly lynched. I used it in order to maximize our chances of lynching scum today. I used it, and I can no longer use it.

The problem is, the only thing you've said regarding my role's information is that it may be corrupt, or have another meaning, but that makes no sense. My Knowledge says that one player, who I've found out means you, has received suspicious letters. Suspicious letters on it's own doesn't seem too strong of a case against someone, but couple this with you responding to it in chronological order with "

Mafia, I want to know - did you have anything to do with ThAdmiral's death? Was the scum trying to kill sekinj?

You're just hoping on to what I've said a second ago! See?

Thanks for correctly assuming that I though MafiaMann was this aforementioned "sorcerer"/"magician". Although, I think his role has something to do with who people target, and

probably something to do with ThAdmiral's death

. No way to know for sure until he claims, though.

And do you have anything at all to say about this quote?

But, what I want to know now is, why would you, Qwints, use this ability on me? I'm the only player who has brought up information that relates to you being scum, and you try to silence me by forcing my vote on someone else? And why did you think Scribe was a servant role?

Next, I'm calling the second of the quotes above completely ridiculous. I use servants to send my letters, so why would it make sense if I was one? Your ability has worked on me, so I really don't understand how it could only work on servants.

-----------------------

no i i switched sekinjis spot with rage and thats all

Why and what did you switch to me?

[Rage]

2. As I said before, I was afraid I would be lynched before I got the chance to use my one shot ability. So I used it to maximize the chance of a mafia lynch - who I feel is scummy.

Why did you use it on me?

You do realize that I am the only one who has claimed with information against you, right? So, was it coincidence that you chose me as a "servant", even though I myself have power over them (more like passive control, really), or did you choose me so that the players advocating your lynch, which has been spearheaded by me so far, would need one more player?

Either way it doesn't make any sense. The former, because I've already explained it, and the second is an attempt to draw out the day. Or do you have an option 3 that you'd like to enlighten the Town about now?

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(2) MafiaMann - qwints. Rage
(2) qwints - Mariyta, MafiaMann
(1) thinktank - sekinj

Not voting:

Cass, Gremwell, PimHel, thinktank

Deadline:

Sunday 28 September 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Rage]

Let me make this crystal clear, I used my power on rage b/c
1. It was most likely to work on him if he had told the truth
2. I thought he was the most wrong about me
3. This is a critical lynch and I want to maximize our chances of getting scum.

1. Two other players confirmed me, one other confirmed that he got a letter but didn't know who sent it. One of the two players received the same message (sekinj) as the one who claimed not to trust the Scribe (Gremwell), and the last player I've sent a message to (Mariyta) claimed to know who the Scribe was.

1. Three other players could confirm me. One of which knew who I was (Mariyta) and two had a bogus "if you don't acknowledge the Scribe you will die in 2 game Days after the Scribe is lynched".. which didn't actually exist. I just wanted them to say they got a message as soon as they could, and I tried to make sure that no matter their alignment they would say so. Apparently it worked, albeit with a little hinting at Gremwell..
2. Seriously? How could I not be? You claim to have received no letters, then claim that you

could

have gotten a letter, and now you say that I'm wrong about you? Sorry, I still don't buy it.
3. This is pretty close to what I said before about you bussing your partners. In this case, Sekinj, who you deflected to by voting him with crap reasoning when I first presented the information, and then MafiaMann, who still looks like a mislynch in my eyes. Your interrogation of him isn't helping this point either.

By the way, why exactly do you think MafiaMann is scum more than anyone else?

[Rage]

Damnit!.. well, the first '1.' doesn't matter. The second one does.

[Rage]

Oh, and ignore the last question. I missed the answer in your post before, qwints.

[Rage]

Quad-post = FTW

The problem is, the only thing you've said regarding my role's information is that it may be corrupt, or have another meaning, but that makes no sense. My Knowledge says that one player, who I've found out means you, has received suspicious letters. Suspicious letters on it's own doesn't seem too strong of a case against someone, but couple this with you responding to it in chronological order with

"Claiming to have no letters, claiming the possibility to have a letter".

[Rage]

All this, added to the information that the threat is close to the baron... Rage and Sekinj are close to the baron too, but they're far less scummy.

I believe it was early Day 1 that I said this first, but I have said that my flavour text explains that trouble is coming from inside of the Baron's court. Also, you aren't ruling out myself or Sekinj of being scum by saying "far less scummy", are you? By no means am I fully confirmed, I'm just more confirmed than anyone else.. excluding the dead guys.

@ Rage: I'd like to clear something up, I posted this before but maybe you missed it.

I said that I knew that someone was sending letters, not that I received one

. I went on to say that if you did send me one that something was amiss as I did not receive any letters of any kind.

How do you know that?

I thought you received it because 1) on Day 2 you had a bit of a conversation regarding letters with Sekinj, asking her if she had received one on Night 1 2) I sent you a letter on you Night 1

So, I guess I was roleblocked. But I still want to know how you know letters are being sent around.

maybe there is a letter stealer as well as a vote stealer...

Or just an outright stealer.. Meh, it's all speculation right now.

And Gremwell brought this up earlier, but has anyone lost their vote today?

@

Everyone

, I think we've exhausted everything we're going to get out of Qwints, except maybe what his flavour text is, so I suggest holding your votes until we're sure that we won't get anything out of the Day, then we can lynch. Who knows, we may discover someone scummier, or someone that should be lynched first, but I just don't think either is going to happen.

Personally, I'd like to here more about MafiaMann's role. A full-claim would not only give us more of a clue about roles in this game (I know mine is a little weird, being able to send messages with whatever I want in them) but it would also give us information regarding Qwints' suspects. So far we know that one of his suspects is the lots-of-information role that we cleared earlier and have mild suspicions on now, or at least I do (talking about Sekinj) and now we have someone who claims to be a power role and has only really hinted at stuff until really pressured.

[Rage]

So.. instead of telling us what your role actually does, you decide to use it again? Perhaps Qwints was right!.. although very unlikely right now.

[Rage]

I'm also going to wait for MafiaMann's response, because giving any speculation may give him unnecessary wiggle room for his claim.

But, I want to add to the incentive for him to claim.

@MafiaMann, the longer you hold out information, the closer we are to a deadline. Anyone who wants to give the Town less time is scummy. Please don't prove Qwints right (sorry, Qwints!).

[Rage]

What does QFT mean?

[Rage]

MafiaMann, I'd prefer if you looked through the previous pages, and not just this one, to know what is going on and what questions are directed at you.

It's not that I don't trust qwints' post, it's that I want you to know what is going on too. It's scummy not to.

[Rage]

@Qwints, how do you know of the Stables, if such a place exists?

[Rage]

Yes, I know about Knowledge, but what I want to know is if yours specifically states "These are the five possible rooms (as you listed)"

Especially the "possible" part.

[Rage]

I still want Qwints gone, and am not happy with a MafiaMann lynch.

[Rage]

I should probably expand on that, eh?

Some things I want to point out about Qwints, that haven't really been covered before:

The message given by the following four quotes is generally the same, but there are many inconsistencies. The "-" parts are review of the quote and any paragraph until the next quote is my opinion on it.

I received no anonymous letters. I was told in my flavor text, however, about someone sent by someone else to the area (some of you will know what I'm talking about.) I suppose that knowledge could have come by way of a mysterious letter.

-has not received any anonymous letters
-states that flavour text may have been given to him by letter

Does this mean that the "mysterious letter" was not sent you to anonymously? Also, I think the "mysterious letter" excuse is just that, an excuse, and a poorly fabricated one at that. This is one of the reasons why I think you are scummier than MafiaMann.

Let me be clear. I've received no letters. My flavor text implies that I have found something out. I suppose that (in flavor world) I could have found that out through letters.

-has not received any letters at all
-thinks he may have received a letter, which he says would explain his flavour text

1. Odd, my flavour text implies that I have to find something out, not that I know of it already, like you are saying. Scum

tends

to know more than Town.
2. Presumably, letters are physical objects, or as physical as possible on a computer = messaging. I should know, because I have both received a message (I was given a private message during Night 1, indicating the lose of my vote that day), and I have also sent out letters, which I can safely assume were given to players by private message, too.

@

Sekinj

and

Mariyta

, how did you receive your "letters"?

I mean that it is possible from my flavor text that my character received letters in the days before night 0. Since the game has started, i.e. since night 0, I have received no letters.

-before the game, it is possible that he has received letters
-during the game, he has received no letters

How did you get the letter before the game, again?

I thought I was pretty clear that I haven't received letters in game, but that it's plausible that my character has received letters.

-confirms he hasn't received any letters at all
-confirms he might have received letters

Overall, total bogus.

Now, referring back to your role claim post,

I am the Baroness. My full name is Lady Camille Vanderton.

My power is an ability to move people between quarters at night and a one shot command ability for servants

. I know that a messenger has come from the Prince to try to cleanse the area of a supernatural. (This was the information that came from a letter.) My predecessor never moved anyone.)

"My power is..."

: So, you have two powers, one for each night that switches a player to a different location, the other which is a one-shot ability to order a 'servant' to vote for someone.

The first power makes sense if those locations exist.
The second I am not a fan of, although it does exist. I just hope it is truly one-shot.

"I know that a messenger..."

: I kind of skimmed past this before, but I don't understand how a messenger is able cleanse anything. Especially since Cass claims to have a "Sir" in front of his name, which most likely means he is not a messenger.

As well as how my character could have known about this if it

was

delivered by letter.

@Rage
Yes, I realize you're the only player that has claimed with information about me. I've never pretended that I chose you at random. I chose you as the one that would maximize the chances of a scum lynch.

With all due respect, you are simply wrong about me.

I've explained what my Knowledge states, and your explanation, as listed above, has not convinced me to think any other way. Couple this with the amount of pressure MafiaMann has based on nothing I consider lynch-worthy means I think you are scummier than him.

You forced me to vote for MafiaMann and continued pressure for his lynch. I'm not saying continuing for the lynch is a bad thing, I am saying the reactions you have gotten from a few people has been interesting. Notably, what has been said before a bit, thinktank and Cass.
----------------------

How directly am I allowed to say this? I don't think we're allowed to directly quote my pm, but my knowledge does tell me that those are the five night quarters people can use.

Perfect.

@

MafiaMann

,

FIne you know what ill tell you i ensorcel someone i than have the ability to switch their postitions at night or switch their targets the first night i switched sekinji because i thought his info may make him a target.

Switched his night-action or switched night-actions on him? And, to whom?

This is crucial stuff!

Answer this please, MafiaMann. I'm asking what you did to me so that my letter could not be received by Gremwell on Night 1.

@

Sekinj

,

Anyways, Sekinj, do you have any name-related information other than that "b" thing you brought up early Day 1?

Yes, I have other information that MAY be helpful if people share names.

Do you have anything to say, now that everyone have shared their names?

@

Cass

,

Not in any of the locations that have been mentioned, so this most likely confirms your mysterious 'fifth location that will be used later

Where do you stay at night?

Cass: I know that someone feels obligated to tell lies. But that is all I know.

What exactly was this in response to?

@

Thinktank

,

Nothing about your information is clear. Its all quite muddy when it should not be. Now you claim that you are in the right wing and not in the basement, which is again scummy.

In your own words and before the deadline, could you please explain what exactly you find unclear that MafiaMann has said? And, how do you feel about my Knowledge regarding Qwints? In your posts since my role claim post, you have not mentioned it at all, so I would very much like to hear from you about this.

@

PimHel

, please post your top suspect(s) and why. I hope you understand that the Town cannot afford for any of it's members to be any more silent than the rest. If you can't keep up with our pace, or feel it would be necessary, please request for a replacement and the Mod can do something about it. Otherwise, you are lurking. Lurking + close to a deadline = scummy beyond belief.

@

MafiaMann

, I'm going to end on this, and a huge inconsistency like this should have been pointed out before. You claim to select two people and switch.. uh.. whatever between them, but when you "ensorcel" someone, you only list

one

name. How does the Mod know of the other name?

Please remember that this inconsistency is not indicative of how scummy you are, I would just like to know a lot more about your role. Also, you should probably face the fact that you have to role claim now, since you are close to being lynched.
----------------------
Finally, I believe that a qwints lynch will provide more information the the Town than a MafiaMann lynch would.

[Rage]

I thought there were only 3 letters you sent out rage.

You are correct.

Night 0 = Letter sent to Sekinj, letter received by Sekinj
Night 1 = Letter sent to Gremwell, letter not received by Gremwell
Night 2 = Letter sent to Mariyta, letter received by Mariyta

[Rage]

Qwints, is there anything you'd like to say about post 755? You've made two posts since, so I'm wondering if yet again I have an accurate read on what you have said.

Qwints, you've made two posts since I posed #755. Are you sure there's nothing you'd like to say about it?

[Rage]

Crap, I keep doing this!

The question I want answered is the second on in my previous post.

[Rage]

I think my position about the letters is pretty clear, Rage.

Yeah, ever-changing.

I have received no letters in game.

The whole "Qwints might have received a letter" business is invalid now. You are confirmed scum.

It seems reasonable that my character was receiving letters before the game began (that is before night 0) based on my flavor text. I think a fair reading of my earlier posts will show that this is a consistently held position.

No, not at all does it "seem reasonable" that you may have received a letter before the game started, because before the game, you didn't exist!

And, once more, flavour text is JUST flavour text! However true it may be, it should not be the deciding factor between to lynch or not to lynch. Not only that, but you are also using a

maybe

statement to keep yourself alive ("messenger may have given me a letter"), which proves this point to the fullest extent.

In short, you have fabricated a lie. Let me (further) explain:

According to you,

I think you have summed up my position accurately, but I don't think that your implications make a lot of sense.

The following four quotes are correct (ending at the ! symbol):

I received no anonymous letters. I was told in my flavor text, however, about someone sent by someone else to the area (some of you will know what I'm talking about.) I suppose that knowledge could have come by way of a mysterious letter.

-has not received any anonymous letters
-states that flavour text may have been given to him by letter

Does this mean that the "mysterious letter" was not sent you to anonymously? Also, I think the "mysterious letter" excuse is just that, an excuse, and a poorly fabricated one at that. This is one of the reasons why I think you are scummier than MafiaMann.

Let me be clear. I've received no letters. My flavor text implies that I have found something out. I suppose that (in flavor world) I could have found that out through letters.

-has not received any letters at all
-thinks he may have received a letter, which he says would explain his flavour text

1. Odd, my flavour text implies that I have to find something out, not that I know of it already, like you are saying. Scum

tends

to know more than Town.
2. Presumably, letters are physical objects, or as physical as possible on a computer = messaging. I should know, because I have both received a message (I was given a private message during Night 1, indicating the lose of my vote that day), and I have also sent out letters, which I can safely assume were given to players by private message, too.

I mean that it is possible from my flavor text that my character received letters in the days before night 0. Since the game has started, i.e. since night 0, I have received no letters.

-before the game, it is possible that he has received letters
-during the game, he has received no letters

How did you get the letter before the game, again?

Answer bolded, please.

I thought I was pretty clear that I haven't received letters in game, but that it's plausible that my character has received letters.

-confirms he hasn't received any letters at all
-confirms he might have received letters

Overall, total bogus

.

Bolded is my position about your position on the "letter/no letter" business. You've said that I have an accurate read, and this is what I said. Simply put, according to you you think your position is bogus.

!

Back to this,

I think you have summed up my position accurately, but I don't think that your implications make a lot of sense.

You address my implications but to not prove them wrong? My most important implication, as stated before in this post, was that you were making a story up as you went, and now you have said it is accurate.

@

Everyone currently voting for MafiaMann

, we do not have enough time to debate this much longer, so please switch your votes to Qwints.

[Rage]

Tell me, why are you adding anything to the posts now, not when you made them?

I don't think they are as silly or inconsistent as you have portrayed.

I portrayed them exactly as how you posted them!

My flavor text says that I have learned that the prince is sending someone to the manor.

Okay.

It makes sense that my backstory contains me getting a letter (before night 0).

You don't know if this is true, so why should we?

Thus another player's flavor text could say that they had noticed me receiving letters.

My character didn't notice, she knows. I don't know how she knows, nor the content of the letters, I just find the letter

s

themselves suspicious. Thus, more than one letter.

That said, I have received no letters (that is pms) since the game began.

Before the game began, did you receive any game-related PMs, excluding any you might have received asking you to replace?

[Rage]

And woah, woah, woah:

-has not received any anonymous letters
-states that flavour text may have been given to him by letter [before the game]

This is the summary of your first post related to the letter-controversy. This was the perfect opportunity for you to say you might have received a letter before the game, but instead you post that now. This is an example of you changing your position!

[Rage]

Sigh..

[Rage]

Since everyone has night-choices (except Cass and Sekinj) would a mass-claim be effective? Nobody except Cass can be a vanilla townie, according to Sekinj and also because everyone was here on the first day when OGML counter-claimed Sekinj and nobody spoke up, so we just have to think about what seems the most like a fakeclaim (as aforementioned by the mod, scum have fakeclaims)

Also, if Mariyta speaks the truth, then we may lose her tonight if we do mass-claim, but on the other hand we have a pretty good chance at hiting scum today

because

almost everyone has a night-choice. It's not the kind of balance I'd want to risk with an unconfirmed protective role, but it's a risk that could prove very beneficial. Although, I don't think we can accurately speculate at the number of scum, but with the amount of townie deaths so far I think it's safe to assume that we should be extra careful about our lynches from now on, and no voting until you are sure-sure-sure that you want the other person dead.

Regarding Mariyta's claim, I kind of believe it, but I'll go more in depth about this when everyone has.. ahem.. "checked in".

@Everyone, it's kind of related to the above, but is there anyone who thinks that I am not a confirmed townie?

Finally, sekinj seems very eager to get a vote on someone. First Mariyta, who explained herself and Sekinj removed her FOS, asking for more clarification, and then switching the FOS onto two others, without a just case. This is a sudden gameplay change, which looks to me like if sekinj is scum, she's pushing for a mislynch.

Why a mislynch, you say? Well, it's mere speculation at this point, but I'd assume that if Mariyta is telling the truth, then scum wants to frame her and get away with killing Gremwell, and Sekinj was the first post of the day and the first post to contain pressure.

FoS: Sekinj

One other thing. Guessing at the number of scum and then saying you'll vote when everyone has had a chance to say something is scummy. You don't know the number of scum, or you do and you just want to get someone lynched fast, but you are willing to put a vote down nonetheless? Plus, you haven't come out with any information since the trap and the info that got what-we-assume-to-be a Vanilla Townie lynched, so I would especially like to hear your opinion on a mass-claim.

Also, why Qwints and Thinktank?

Vote count

(7 players alive = 4 to lynch before deadline)
(1) qwints - Mariyta

Not voting:

Cass, Mariyta, qwints. Rage, sekinj, TheSweatpantsNinja, thinktank

Deadline:

Wednesday 22 October 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Rage]

Before anyone claims, I want to know one more thing from Qwints.

@Qwints, is there any role in the game that if they are lynched/night-killed, you win or lose?

Now, just so people remember, there is a role in the game that upon its death, depending on how it dies, will force me to lose. I'm not going to release this just yet.

Finally, does anyone wish to counter-claim Cass? If Mariyta is pro-town, she has confirmed the existence of an Emissary. However, this should not be an indication of her alignment, but I'll explain more about this later, too.

Vote count

(7 players alive = 4 to lynch before deadline)
(1) qwints - Cass

Not voting:

Mariyta, qwints. Rage, sekinj, TheSweatpantsNinja, thinktank

Deadline:

Wednesday 22 October 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Rage]

Okay, I think we can continue with mass-claim now.

[Rage]

I want the last players who have to claim, to claim, then I can say something about Cass' role.

If cass has evidence that makes qwintz scum, and its damning to the point where either cass is lying or qwintz is scum, then a massclaim really isn't necessary today, all it gives is scum night targets.

Eh? Do you realize what has been claimed already? I have the power to confirm myself (confirmed by 4 people now), Mariyta claims to have the power to protect but receive the targeted actions instead, and Qwints claims to have the ability to switch people's rooms at night (which has been confirmed by two people). What possible role could you have, with a night action, that would make the game more balanced than it already is? Methinks you are scum trying to get out of fakeclaiming.

@TheSweatpantsNinja, Why don't you want to role-claim? Also, please do it.

Here's why everyone thinks you are suspicious:

I do not think Cass is suspicious at all, quite the opposite really. I'll explain more, like I've said, after Thinktank and TheSweatpantsNinja claim.

That's patently untrue. If we're going to lynch one of cass or qwintz, what benefit does a claim bring, except giving the scum more information?

To prove whether or not Cass is the Emissary? I can guarantee someone's survival depending on what is claimed and whether or not I believe it.

[Rage]

One more thing. I don't really care why Cass is certain, but I can see why others would be. I would like to know, sure, but I don't think it's necessary because I am fairly sure Qwints is scum, and I won't know more about Cass until the rest of the players role-claim.

The order of which people role-claim doesn't really matter to me, but I would prefer, and I think others would too, Thinktank role-claim before Sweatpants.

@Thinktank, what do you think of that?

[Rage]

(Well, now I know that you are confirmed, mariyta is a bodyguard, and qwints can switch people's room, and cass has claimed emissary. So I guess the only person I don't know is sekin.)

Wait, so you know what Thinktank's role is?

Two more posts without a claim and I'm voting you. Basically, you have one post to convince me otherwise, and the other to role-claim.

[Rage]

I'll be out for the day, so I suggest that TheSweatpantsNinja get his role cleared up and I'll respond later.

[Rage]

Nobody has counter-claimed the Emissary, so I'm confident Qwints is scum and our lynch for today. However, we can't just follow a cop, no matter how confirmed he is, so I strongly advocate learning as much as we can about roles that seem fishy/have recently been claimed and getting everyone on the same page.

@

Thinktank

, your power is pretty much useless now. All of the names have been released, so unless someone has Knowledge like I have, then you can't really add much. Why didn't you confirm anyone when/after we were nameclaiming? Also, knowing what you know would be very good to have now, the names you have learned so far, and the roles that you know exist in the game (rather, the two that you know may exist in the game).

Also @

Thinktank

, what is your role's name? I think Sekinj just asked that, but I also want to know.

@

Sekinj

, are you going to reveal any information now?

@

Cass

,

Sekinj

and

Thinktank

, do you have any win/lose conditions? I'll say any conditions I have after you guys.

@

Mariyta

, Don't feel left out, I will have a question for you after they claim their conditions, if any.

@

TheSweatpantsNinja

, have you made any progress reading through the game? Also, I'm not saying do it, but if you had to vote for someone who would it be and why?

[Rage]

@

Thinktank

, Any win/lose condition?

[Rage]

Sorry Sekinj, but a qwints lynch would prove so much more than a Sweatpants lynch. We pretty much know he isn't the Baron, so confirmation from a Cop would be more help than a lynch that (other) scum can hop on fairly quickly if we are somehow wrong.

By the way, I think the Baron claim is crap and there really is no way to know if he is the Baron if a random townie dies. Just to be sure, let's see if I understand truly what Sweatpants claims:

If Sweatpants is telling the truth

:
- Cass gets to investigate him tonight and prove his innocence, which may result in a Sekinj lynch for trying to prove him wrong
- Any townie is liable to die during the night, just like any night. What's more likely is that he isn't targeted and scum pushes for his lynch, which would be interesting to see because then we'd know it was a mislynch. There's more of a chance we may be wrong about Sweatpants than Qwints, because, most notably, we don't know Sekinj's alignment.

If Sweatpants is lying

:
- Cass gets to prove his guiltiness and he is lynched tomorrow.
- Sweatpants lives through the night

Also, I'd like my unanswered question to be answered before I undoubtedly prove Qwints is scum:

@Cass, Sekinj and Thinktank, do you have any win/lose conditions? I'll say any conditions I have after you guys.

So you can confirm Sekinj. That's pretty important information, ya know.

I don't think he can. From what we've seen so far, he can just confirm they exist. Let's get this cleared up.

@

Thinktank

, do you know the alignment or any other information about the roles you know exist in the game?

Finally, don't vote until you are sure we have solved any irregularities and we all are ready to end the day! Remember, we still have tomorrow!

[Rage]

But sweatpantsninja feels really scummy to me. So vote sweatpantsninja

*cough* outing-your-scum-buddy */cough*

After he flips scum, we should either lynch cass or thinktank. I think those are probably the scum based on their actions.

You still think Cass is scum, even though 3 people have claimed to lose if he dies? What about Sweatpants, and his apparent fakeclaim?

The more you post, and the more I think we've exhausted everything we're going to get from you and should just put you down.

Based on that I would be more inclined to vote Sweats as he is just blatantly making stuff up.

The way I see it, we have two major things to vote on right now:

Cass's investigation is sane, we lynch Qwints.
Sekinj's Knowledge that Sweatpants lied about his role.

I am more willing to vote with Cass, because he can learn something new each night, whereas we already have enough information for a Sweatpants lynch.

Also, Sekinj is confirmed town. Depending on who asks, I will answer. And I'll provide why when you ask, don't worry. Just know that I'm certain she has the same lose condition as I do.

@

Sekinj

, I don't think they matter much anymore, but please don't reveal your lose condition any more than you have to. We want to avoid scum knowing it, because something super-pro-town happens when he's nightkilled, am I right?

@

Everyone

, One more thing, do we think there are only two scum? If Qwints and Sweatpants both flip scum, and we still haven't won, who do you think is the last scum? From what we've learned so far, I would probably vote for Thinktank, but things may change and sway my opinion.

@

Cass

, have you investigated anyone else, and who? With this comes the possibility of confirming a couple people tonight, so it may be best to answer the question tomorrow, or before Qwints is lynched.

Finally, I'll be voting Qwints today. Not now, but today.

[Rage]

Forgot to mention, but according to Qwints logic...

With Cass's claim, it's clear that either Cass or I are scum. If there are three scum then today is lynch or lose. Thus we can't afford to make a mistake. It will probably be too late to lynch Cass once I come up town. So I want everyone to look back at yesterday and see Cass's strange behavior that I set forth earlier. Remember that he came the day after a no-lynch.

Cass cannot possibly be scum because I lose if he is lynched. If he's nightkilled, something interesting happens, but I don't think anyone except me needs to know that right now.

... Qwints is scum.

[Rage]

I know cass is scum. Unfortunately a number of you seem to have lose conditions linked to his death. That certainly doesn't prove he's pro-town, but makes his lynch unlikely.

It proves he's pro-town. Why would pro-town roles die because they kill off scum? It eliminates the option for a vig, and we shouldn't be able to confirm whether roles exist or not because someone has another role. It doesn't make sense.

Sweatpantsninja's posts just don't add up. So my vote stays where it is.

They add up a lot more than yours do.

As for my "having given up," I don't have much to add at this point to what I've already said. My cards are on the table, Cass is refusing to fully explain.

You said this about MafiaMann, and do you remember how well that turned out?

Also, I fail to see how he's refusing anything.

We're at lynch and lose, therefore it makes no sense to play your cards next to your chest.

..Since when are we at lynch or lose? How could you possibly know that unless you are scum?

Vote: Qwints

[Rage]

@thinktank, who did you use your power on tonight and why?

Also, I believe something happened to you tonight.. what was that again?

[Rage]

@Mod, requesting a prod on everyone who has not realized it's day!

[Rage]

I got a note saying that rage is the scribe and the information he has is correct.

Yay! And strange, nonetheless. Why did Gremwell not receive my letter on Night 1? Did MafiaMann have something to do with it, even though he has flipped town and said he didn't?

Sigh.. I want to hear Cass' investigation result before I make any more assumptions.

@Sekinj, I know that I'm far from confirmed (yesterday I was just pushing Qwints' lynch by saying I was) but where did this question come from? The only answer, that won't give me hell, that I can give is "Uh.. it's possible?" and even then it looks like I'm hiding something. If there's something you want to know about my role, then ask me. However, I do find it interesting that you'd pose a question such as that, at a time such as this, between waiting for an investigation result and asking for an increase in activity.

Again @Sekinj, how did you know you lost your vote today?

And finally, yes, I can say pretty much whatever I want in a letter. Each time I send one out, I first ask the Mod if what I'm saying is okay, and so far I have never run into a problem.

[Rage]

Let's not get distracted from Cass' investigations, but for convenience, here is what I've sent out and when:

Night 0

= Sent a warning to Sekinj that she must acknowledge the Scribe when the time comes, or she dies in 2 game days. She wouldn't actually die.

Night 1

= Tried sending Gremwell the same thing. Apparently, he didn't get it.

Night 2

= Sent Mariyta a letter telling her who the Scribe was, my name (Keira Whitmore), as well as asking her if she was the Emissary. She answered in her first post of Day 3, with the letters "NO" in the word "NOw". I

think

.

Night 3

= Sent Cass a letter telling him that I was the Scribe, and if I died to get Qwints lynched.

Night 4

= Sent thinktank a letter telling him that I was the Scribe and my role information is correct.

@Sekinj, One more thing. In your letter, was there anything to indicate that I was scum trying to pass off as town?

[Rage]

Okay, let's get Cass's investigation... soon.

@

Mod

, I request a prod on Cass, please.

Mod note:

Done already

[Rage]

I'd be voting for Sweatpants right about now if he wasn't just prodded.

[Rage]

Seeing as how most of us believe we are near the end of the game, would you think it'd be smart to bring in a replacement or two?

Vote count

(6 players alive = 4 to lynch before deadline)

Not voting:

Cass, Mariyta, Rage, sekinj, TheSweatpantsNinja, thinktank

Deadline:

Friday 31 October 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Rage]

@Mod, have your prods been responded to?

[Rage]

And where are you?

[Rage]

What did your investigation say?

[Rage]

Hey Thinktank, how do you respond to that?

[Rage]

Yes, I've sent you a letter. I've also sent letters with various things in 'em to Sekinj, Gremwell (it didn't go through), Mariyta and thinktank.

I request a prod on thinktank before I lay the hammer down, though.

[Rage]

I'm ready, but I don't think we should be rushing into this. I really hate Follow-The-Cop.

[Rage]

Hmm.. a while back I contacted the mod about when I lost the power to vote, and the response I got was rather interesting. He said that I

was

voting for Sekinj and that he knew that my vote was bought, but told me that I had to think of that and my vote today. How peculiar.

[Rage]

If he ever makes one, that is.

[Rage]

DSD!

Vote: Thinktank

[Rage]

... Let me say what we're all probably thinking..

WTF!?

[Rage]

I disagree with stopping the game at this point. I thought the stealing of a vote only lasted one day and today isn't lynch or lose.

But it happens each day? It happened Day 1 (unless SingingLibrarian was lying, which would have been really smart if he did the vote stealing), Day 2 (me), Day 3 (nobody?) and now Day 4 (sekinj).

I'm eagerly waiting for the role messages and hoping scum didn't have too much of an advantage. So far, I know that I had the power to confirm myself as well as confirm a scum, and I thought that was pretty unfair. Alas, we wait and see.

[Rage]

Hm.. yeah. We probably should not have lynched the confirmed scum (qwints) on our second-to-last day..

But, wow! Those are some incredibly flavorful roles! Also, I love the idea of scum-roles working together, which in this case was name-grabbing and vote-stealing based on names/roles. That's a really good way to counter role-claims!

[Rage]

I think that if each role could use their abilities a certain amount of times, rather than each night, things may have turned out a little better for town. If that were the case, methinks a roleblocker should have replaced the bodyguard. That, or make the bodyguard get hit by everything and give more immunities to him/her about certain things. Like if someone's vote was stolen, they'd steal the bodyguard's and not know it, and if an investigation was made, it would redirect to the bodyguard too.

All in all, I liked the addition of a cop some time into the game, and it was really well handled (you know.. the *pop*-out-of-thin-air, hehe).

All I did was move people around on n3.

Yeah.. I didn't really see the point of your role, considering how you are the mafia, so I speculated for a bit that mafia/werewolves would have had to guess at where their target was staying, which led me to think that Sekinj was scum because she knew the locations, but I dismissed the idea when I found out she had the same loss condition as me.

I think that the loss condition itself, though, was thought out really well. Town can't lose first or second night, and with the addition of the cop and the threat of "no lynch = something bad" (coupled with "Hey, we just no lynched and this player was introduced.. huh?') didn't make things straightforward, which they never should be in a game of mafia. Well done, mod!

And for the entire game I actually thought there was a mafia, not a werewolf faction, but giving away there were werewolves might have implied a mafia faction so.. Qwints/TheSweatpantsNinja/Thinktank, at any time during the game did you think there was a mafia faction, or a faction other than Town and yourselves?

[Rage]

I think it was a better choice for Cass to investigate you since Sweatpants was so-close-to-confirmed scum, with the Baron claim and Sekinj's Knowledge, and just overall more suspicious than you, so I think that instead of proving his guilt all the way, Cass chose you to confirm the player that had less attention on him.