Mini 634 - The Baron's court: Game over

[Rage]

Before anyone claims, I want to know one more thing from Qwints.

@Qwints, is there any role in the game that if they are lynched/night-killed, you win or lose?

Now, just so people remember, there is a role in the game that upon its death, depending on how it dies, will force me to lose. I'm not going to release this just yet.

Finally, does anyone wish to counter-claim Cass? If Mariyta is pro-town, she has confirmed the existence of an Emissary. However, this should not be an indication of her alignment, but I'll explain more about this later, too.

Vote count

(7 players alive = 4 to lynch before deadline)
(1) qwints - Cass

Not voting:

Mariyta, qwints. Rage, sekinj, TheSweatpantsNinja, thinktank

Deadline:

Wednesday 22 October 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[qwints]

I have no special win or lose conditions.

[Rage]

Okay, I think we can continue with mass-claim now.

[Cass]

I know for a fact that Qwintz is scum. I have good hope to live through the night. If you guys think massclaiming now is necessary, go ahead, but I don't think it is.

[Mariyta]

I know for a fact that Qwintz is scum. I have good hope to live through the night. If you guys think massclaiming now is necessary, go ahead, but I don't think it is.

What evidence do you have for this?

And of course you know you're going to live through the night if no one counters you. I have to protect you or I lose.

Yes, mass claiming is necessary. Please, no one else vote until the others claim.

[sekinj]

I know for a fact that Qwintz is scum.

I'd like to know how you are so certain as well...

[qwints]

Are you claiming cop-like abilities Cass? What could possibly be the point of not revealing how you are certain at this point? I think you're just too scared to try and make something up at this point. Especially since Gremwell's nickname was sleuth.

Here's why everyone thinks you are suspicious:
1) You arrived the day after a no-lynch and we were promised dire consequences after a no-lynch.
2) Sir Lothar

Guile?

That's a suspicious last name if I ever heard one.
3) You cast suspicion on Maryita, Thinktank, Gremwell, MafiaMann, me and Sekinj yesterday. That looks a lot like scum trying to cover all their bases.
4) After a roleclaim, you say that you "know for a fact" that I am scum without explaining why.
5) You discourage a mass claim (and maybe are going for a fast lynch?) when only two players are left to claim. Are you trying to protect thinktank after you and others cast suspicion on him yesterday?

Even if you all are convinced I am scum, it is absolutely imperative that we get a roleclaim from thinktank and sweatpantsninja. That maximizes town's chances of using sekinj's information successfully.

Here's my current scum list
1) Cass - for reasons mentioned earlier
2) thinktank - for not being helpful and yesterday's lynch attempt
3) Mariyta - much less, but her strident attempts to distance herself from the hammer yesterday is a little scummy. (Though the hammer itself does make sense)
4) sweatpantsninja - this is my 0 point. Simply an unknown quantity.
5) sekinj - pretty sure she's town based on rage's defense of her
6) rage - I'm certain he's town b/c he followed my command yesterday
7) myself - I know I'm town, obviously

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I know for a fact that Qwintz is scum. I have good hope to live through the night. If you guys think massclaiming now is necessary, go ahead, but I don't think it is.

If cass has evidence that makes qwintz scum, and its damning to the point where either cass is lying or qwintz is scum, then a massclaim really isn't necessary today, all it gives is scum night targets.

[qwints]

Also, why wait to claim certainty until after others have expressed skepticism? Cass is pretty much guaranteed to live through the night if Mariyta is telling the truth. Only once people (even though who seem convinced I am scum) didn't believe Cass right away did Cass claim that he "knew for a fact."

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Cass is trying to prevent thinktank and sweatpantsninja from having to roleclaim. I doubt this is a town move at this point in the game.

[Mariyta]

I know for a fact that Qwintz is scum. I have good hope to live through the night. If you guys think massclaiming now is necessary, go ahead, but I don't think it is.

If cass has evidence that makes qwintz scum, and its damning to the point where either cass is lying or qwintz is scum, then a massclaim really isn't necessary today, all it gives is scum night targets.

Only scum would refuse to claim at this point. What do you have to hide?

[sekinj]

Is thinktank still playing?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Only scum would refuse to claim at this point. What do you have to hide?

That's patently untrue. If we're going to lynch one of cass or qwintz, what benefit does a claim bring, except giving the scum more information?

[Rage]

I want the last players who have to claim, to claim, then I can say something about Cass' role.

If cass has evidence that makes qwintz scum, and its damning to the point where either cass is lying or qwintz is scum, then a massclaim really isn't necessary today, all it gives is scum night targets.

Eh? Do you realize what has been claimed already? I have the power to confirm myself (confirmed by 4 people now), Mariyta claims to have the power to protect but receive the targeted actions instead, and Qwints claims to have the ability to switch people's rooms at night (which has been confirmed by two people). What possible role could you have, with a night action, that would make the game more balanced than it already is? Methinks you are scum trying to get out of fakeclaiming.

@TheSweatpantsNinja, Why don't you want to role-claim? Also, please do it.

Here's why everyone thinks you are suspicious:

I do not think Cass is suspicious at all, quite the opposite really. I'll explain more, like I've said, after Thinktank and TheSweatpantsNinja claim.

That's patently untrue. If we're going to lynch one of cass or qwintz, what benefit does a claim bring, except giving the scum more information?

To prove whether or not Cass is the Emissary? I can guarantee someone's survival depending on what is claimed and whether or not I believe it.

[Mariyta]

It hurts the town more than it benefits scum. Your refusal to claim only gives the scum a reason to keep you alive. The rest of the town will be suspicious of you, therefore drawing attention away from the real scum. Thanks for showing your cards, though.

[Rage]

One more thing. I don't really care why Cass is certain, but I can see why others would be. I would like to know, sure, but I don't think it's necessary because I am fairly sure Qwints is scum, and I won't know more about Cass until the rest of the players role-claim.

The order of which people role-claim doesn't really matter to me, but I would prefer, and I think others would too, Thinktank role-claim before Sweatpants.

@Thinktank, what do you think of that?

[qwints]

Am I correct that it's 4-2 with 1 abstaining in favor of thinktank and sweatpantsninja claiming.

I think that : rage, maryita, sekinj and I favor a role claim
Cass and sweatpantsninja oppose one.
Thinktank hasn't commented.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Only scum would refuse to claim at this point. What do you have to hide?

It hurts the town more than it benefits scum. Your refusal to claim only gives the scum a reason to keep you alive. The rest of the town will be suspicious of you, therefore drawing attention away from the real scum. Thanks for showing your cards, though.

I'm sorry, your first post accuses me of being scum, your second post sort of implies you know I'm town, because obviously "I'm drawing attention away from the real scum."

Eh? Do you realize what has been claimed already? I have the power to confirm myself (confirmed by 4 people now), Mariyta claims to have the power to protect but receive the targeted actions instead, and Qwints claims to have the ability to switch people's rooms at night (which has been confirmed by two people). What possible role could you have, with a night action, that would make the game more balanced than it already is? Methinks you are scum trying to get out of fakeclaiming.

I really don't know who has claimed what. If someone were to sum that up for me, that'd just be great. (Well, now I know that you are confirmed, mariyta is a bodyguard, and qwints can switch people's room, and cass has claimed emissary. So I guess the only person I don't know is sekin.) That's not really the point, though.

The point is that we are lynching one of cass or qwintz today, yes? So the believability of my claim is not really relevant to today's lynch, and considering that, the only people who would benefit are scum when deciding who to nk.

[Mariyta]

Only scum would refuse to claim at this point. What do you have to hide?

It hurts the town more than it benefits scum. Your refusal to claim only gives the scum a reason to keep you alive. The rest of the town will be suspicious of you, therefore drawing attention away from the real scum. Thanks for showing your cards, though.

I'm sorry, your first post accuses me of being scum, your second post sort of implies you know I'm town, because obviously "I'm drawing attention away from the real scum."

Seriously? Way to try to turn the tables. Lame, but nice try. Since you obviously didn't get it, the second quote was a hypothetical situation assuming you were town.

As for "lynching one of cass or qwints," while I still thoroughly believe qwints is scum, I'm still easily swayable in regards to you or think. At this point, I'd be quite happy to kill you.

[Rage]

(Well, now I know that you are confirmed, mariyta is a bodyguard, and qwints can switch people's room, and cass has claimed emissary. So I guess the only person I don't know is sekin.)

Wait, so you know what Thinktank's role is?

Two more posts without a claim and I'm voting you. Basically, you have one post to convince me otherwise, and the other to role-claim.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

No, obviously thinktank hasn't claimed.

As for "lynching one of cass or qwints," while I still thoroughly believe qwints is scum, I'm still easily swayable in regards to you or think. At this point, I'd be quite happy to kill you.

So, in other words, if I'm hearing you right, you would ignore the person who claims that they have

absolutely incriminating

evidence on another player, which basically means that one of them

has

to be scum, because I didn't claim when you wanted me to?

Is it unfeasible that mariyta and whichever one of cass/qwintz are scum (qwintz seems more likely) are scum together? Mariyta thought she had to bus qwintz but now thinks she can get away with a different lynch?

Mariyta, you claimed bodyguard. Who did you protect, when, and why?

But rage is still clearly a dumbass, so fine, I'll claim.

I'm Garland "Gold" Saberfield, The Baron. I know that there is an Ephraim and Keira in the game, and by process of elimination, that there is not a Morgan. (It was presented as there being two of three in the game). Due to my staff's loyalty, any attempt to nightkill me will be reflected to a member of the town. I sleep in the baron's quarters (obv). If the emissary is killed, I lose.

So let's review exactly what that means. Let's say there's a role that certain players lose if that person is killed. But he has some claimed protection. Now scum could gladly kill me in the hopes that it would be redirected to the person they wanted dead.

Jesus fucking christ, I hope you're happy.

[Mariyta]

No, obviously thinktank hasn't claimed.

As for "lynching one of cass or qwints," while I still thoroughly believe qwints is scum, I'm still easily swayable in regards to you or think. At this point, I'd be quite happy to kill you.

So, in other words, if I'm hearing you right, you would ignore the person who claims that they have

absolutely incriminating

evidence on another player, which basically means that one of them

has

to be scum, because I didn't claim when you wanted me to?

A) I don't give two sh*ts if someone claims to have "absolutely incriminating" evidence if they can't prove it. Scum pull that crap all the time. It means nothing.
B)Qwints is pretty much a given at this point, so he'll definitely die. That doesn't mean you're in the clear at all. If you think the only reason I'd lynch you is because you refused to claim, you're sadly mistaken. Your behavior, in light of your predecessors, is horrifically scummy.

Is it unfeasible that mariyta and whichever one of cass/qwintz are scum (qwintz seems more likely) are scum together? Mariyta thought she had to bus qwintz but now thinks she can get away with a different lynch?

Nice stretch. If you really think you can get this to fly, by all means, keep pushing.

Mariyta, you claimed bodyguard. Who did you protect, when, and why?

The least you could do is read today.

But rage is still clearly a dumbass, so fine, I'll claim.

Rage is probably the only one here who isn't a dumbass.

I'm Garland "Gold" Saberfield, The Baron. I know that there is an Ephraim and Keira in the game, and by process of elimination, that there is not a Morgan. (It was presented as there being two of three in the game). Due to my staff's loyalty, any attempt to nightkill me will be reflected to a member of the town. I sleep in the baron's quarters (obv). If the emissary is killed, I lose.

I find this highly unlikely, unless somehow the Baron is faking his own attempted murder, which is just ridiculous. I find it really hard to believe that town will keep dying if you're attacked. All of this information here is stuff that has already been revealed in one way or another.

So let's review exactly what that means. Let's say there's a role that certain players lose if that person is killed. But he has some claimed protection. Now scum could gladly kill me in the hopes that it would be redirected to the person they wanted dead.

How would they know who it would kill, if a random town member is killed? You should've quit while you were minutely ahead.

Jesus fucking christ, I hope you're happy.

Not at all.

[Rage]

I'll be out for the day, so I suggest that TheSweatpantsNinja get his role cleared up and I'll respond later.

[thinktank]

I'm sorry but I've fallen behind on this game as I haven't been just working for the past couple of days without sleep. Will catchup and post thoughts soon, but first i need to sleep!

[sekinj]

I, for not, am not feeling that great about the Baron reveal... however, I'm trying to figure out how that fits with everything else. waiting on think's claim...

[sekinj]

EBWOP: I, for one...