Mini 634 - The Baron's court: Game over

[Johoohno]

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch before deadline)
(2) raverblood – Gremwell, MafiaMann
(2) sekinj – OhGodMyLife, Rage

Not voting:

Mariyta, raverblood, sekinj, Singing Librarian, ThAdmiral, thinktank

Deadline:

Saturday 9 August 1:00 AM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[MafiaMann]

Let me be as clear as possible with this statement:

I do not have any night abilities.

Your information is false. You are lying about something. Lynch all liars.

HOw de we know your not scumming going for the oh this is great lets lynch the guy with the info now. Maybe you could tell us your role so we dont think your bsing because right now i think your scum.

Unvote Vote:OhGodMyLife

[OhGodMyLife]

NEWSFLASH

Trying to get more role information out of me right now is scummy. I have provided sufficient information on the nature of my role to prove that sekinj's information is false.

FoS: MafiaMann

[Rage]

You know, MafiaMann has been awfully quick to believe whatever Sekinj has been saying..

Anyone that keeps there vote on sekinji now after his claim will be a top suspect till more is learned for now the claim seems legit to me and shows how we should not vote sekinji instead maybe look at those who jumped on the sekinji wagon.

Whatever happened to this, MafiaMann? Surely you know that I jumped on the bandwagon, as pressure was decreasing, but you decided to vote for the player that had bad reasoning? Do you have no trouble with my suspicion of Sekinj?

I feel that sekinjis claim was satisfactory we did get the role and what the role does. He did share information that seems to be legit to this point and if anyone cares to prove it wrong go for it. Also the info he provided does seem helpful. We know that we will have a lot of stuff going on at night and

i dont know bout you guys but that definitly is helpful for me.

Yes, we did get the role, and that the role does nothing, which I doubt. The information he provided seems helpful to the scum more than it does the town, do you wish to dispute this? And, no, we do not know that we will have a lot of stuff going on at night (nor how it is helpful to YOU) because we have no way to know if Sekinj is lying about his information. You immediately took this information as truth, and it seems very off to me.

Trying to get more role information out of me right now is scummy.

I would like more information from you, other than using Lynch All Liars, because we have no way to know if you or Sekinj are lying other than your words. What letters do your first, nickname, and last name start with?

@OhGodMyLife, Sekinj knows that if you are telling the truth, he is lying, and vice versa. So, if he has been lying, why would he risk giving out that information? It doesn’t seem like he would knowingly lie and, thus, be proven wrong. I agree, though, that something seems very out of place with his claim. I mean, come on! He’s the Baron’s Right-Hand man, and he has no night action? Not only that, but his Knowledge benefits the Scum much more than it does the Town!

Frankly, it will help me tell who is lying.

My character is female and I am a male in real life, am I lying?

My vote stands where it is. Feel free to bring out more of your "unique" knowledge that will help us find scum, because, yes, your information has helped me find you scummy.

@Everyone, I think we need to hear more from the players without recent discussion. Specifically thinktank, raverblood and ThAdmiral.

[thinktank]

And the award for Captain Obvious goes too...

Oh great. Either OhGodMyLife or sekinj is definite scum, then, as one of them is lying. We just need to work out which.

.

Let me be as clear as possible with this statement:

I do not have any night abilities.

Your information is false. You are lying about something. Lynch all liars.

HOw de we know your not scumming going for the oh this is great lets lynch the guy with the info now. Maybe you could tell us your role so we dont think your bsing because right now i think your scum.

Unvote Vote:OhGodMyLife

OMGL: Claims. Does not want divulge of information.
Sekinj: Claims very early. wants divulging of lots of info. Name. Gender. etc.

I'm more inclined at this point to believe OMGL because generally town want to hold information until it can be properly utilized and so mafia can not use it against town. For the same reason, Sekinj's claim could be fishy. It really depends on what Sekinj has to say in the coming posts..

[OhGodMyLife]

I would like more information from you, other than using Lynch All Liars, because we have no way to know if you or Sekinj are lying other than your words. What letters do your first, nickname, and last name start with?

No. Stop that. Seriously, I've said as much about my role as is necessary and I'm not just arbitrarily claiming anything else about it. Nobody else should be either.

These two statements can not both be true:
A)10 of 11 starting roles have night actions, and sekinj has no night action.
B)OhGodMyLife has no night action.

@OhGodMyLife, Sekinj knows that if you are telling the truth, he is lying, and vice versa. So, if he has been lying, why would he risk giving out that information? It doesn’t seem like he would knowingly lie and, thus, be proven wrong. I agree, though, that something seems very out of place with his claim. I mean, come on! He’s the Baron’s Right-Hand man, and he has no night action? Not only that, but his Knowledge benefits the Scum much more than it does the Town!

As scum, this play makes sense from the perspective that it is either outright believed, thus making her seem to be town, or somebody claims to have no night actions, proving her wrong but also cluing the remaining mafia in as to who they won't need to be wasting a nightkill on. Its more creative than scum claiming doctor (or any other power role) in a normal game at L-1, but it served the same purpose. If sekinj was about to die anyway (she was wagoned to a claim), why not extract flip a coin and either clear yourself or extract some info about the distribution of town power as you go.

[Mariyta]

Lots to think about. Here are some of my thoughts:

-Sage fits as a nickname for Sekinj's claimed role, but it could easily be a safe claim;
-OGM could easily say "Hey, I have no night action" and still be scum, as Sekinj claimed that everyone but him/her/it has a night "choice" or "power". She never actually said action. All scum are involved in the choice for kills, even if they aren't the ones who turn in the action. They are still active at night.
-Sekinj plays like a newer player trying to clear her name.

I'm ok with letting Sekinj go for today (or at least for now, if more info surfaces later).

Vote: OhGod

[raverblood]

mariyta. why ohgod?
i still have susp on sekinj just for the fact that giving you role out the first day just doesnt seem townie. maybe it was just do to having all the fingers at her/him that he/her thought the only way out was to role claim. just because sekinj say that he/her has clues on who the scum is or how to tell who they are doesnt mean that sekinjs goal in finding the scum is pro town. im just saying how do we know sekinj role is not to help scum win.

[Mariyta]

-OGM could easily say "Hey, I have no night action" and still be scum, as Sekinj claimed that everyone but him/her/it has a night "choice" or "power". She never actually said action. All scum are involved in the choice for kills, even if they aren't the ones who turn in the action. They are still active at night.

It seems like a possible scum move, and with little else to go on with anyone else, it seems like a good place to start.

[ThAdmiral]

This would be good if one was definately scum but for some reason I get the feeling this may not be the case.

[Rage]

I'm afraid that soon we will discover that the only way to prove if Sekinj is lying is if we lynch OhGodMyLife.

[sekinj]

I don't know. Maybe there IS some sort of sanity involved like someone mentioned before.

I was very surprised to hear OGML's claim, I can't really see why he would lie about it. Plus, no one else has joined in his claim. If he WAS scum, I would thing that he and one or two buddies might claim they have no night choices in order to get me lynched, but on his own I can't see how that would be effective.

My info said, Power: --- and then later in my list of knowledge: 10 players, in total, beside you have night choices.

[Gremwell]

I don't think a scum pair would be so stupid as to cc together

[Gremwell]

EBWOP, also did it say night choices or night actions? the difference may cause some discrepancies

[sekinj]

it said night choices, which I interpreted as, something to do at night other than wait.

[sekinj]

I don't think a scum pair would be so stupid as to cc together

In this case, it just seems like something they could easily do while still seeming town. but yeah, they would have some explaining to do when I got lynched and turned up town.

It's just hard for me to see why OGML would be lying.

[Rage]

My info said, Power: --- and then later in my list of knowledge: 10 players, in total, beside you have night choices.

lol, why would it say Power if you didn't have one? I'm convinced you are hiding something about what your role is capable of doing from the Town.

My vote stays where it is.

[Rage]

Oops, I didn't see this!

It's just hard for me to see why OGML would be lying.

If you knew he was lying, which means the information you have received in your Knowledge is correct, you would know that either 1) He REALLY wants you lynched or 2) He is scum. However, if you do not know he is lying, meaning the information you have received in your Knowledge is not correct and you have lied to the Town about it, you wouldn't not know nearly as much.

What do you think makes more sense, sekinj?

[sekinj]

Oops, I didn't see this!

It's just hard for me to see why OGML would be lying.

If you knew he was lying, which means the information you have received in your Knowledge is correct, you would know that either 1) He REALLY wants you lynched or 2) He is scum. However, if you do not know he is lying, meaning the information you have received in your Knowledge is not correct and you have lied to the Town about it, you wouldn't not know nearly as much.

What do you think makes more sense, sekinj?

Rage: listen to what I'm saying. I obviously know I'm not lying. But I can't understand why OGML would be lying either. He seems convinced, and I dont' know what it would gain him to lie. that's all I'm saying. And, as I already said, maybe there is some sort of sanity involved. I also think that the scum aren't necessarily the only lyers in this game. For example, I'm sure the Baron at least would feel like he has to lie to hide his identity.

[sekinj]

My info said, Power: --- and then later in my list of knowledge: 10 players, in total, beside you have night choices.

lol, why would it say Power if you didn't have one? I'm convinced you are hiding something about what your role is capable of doing from the Town.

My vote stays where it is.

I really couldn't tell you why the mod structures his PMs the way he does.

[Rage]

Okay, on one hand we have a player who has appeared scummy before and claims that he is the only one without a night action. On the other hand, we have a player who claims not to have a night action and that the first player is scum because of it. Now, what I think the town needs to know is if there is any more information out there that has the potential to help decide who is the scummier. I have information regarding what I have asked of the two players, and both wish to not give any more out. But the problem is, the Town has no way of knowing if OhGodMyLife has a night action or not if Sekinj is lynched. But if OhGodMyLife is lynched, I predict that the only information we will receive is some flavour text about where he was when "an angry mob", I assume, scooped him up and hung him, role name and character's name.

So, I guess the questions that remain are, do we think that either way is a strong enough argument? Do we have enough information about both Sekinj and OhGodMyLife to make a decisive lynch?

[Gremwell]

Good posting, if OMGML is lynched then we'd know as much about him as we do about the N0 kill, which is not much. and all we'd know about sekinj is if she was lying or not which would no doubt lead to an OMGML lynch if she wasn't lying, and if both of you are trying to tell the truth to the best of your ability, then that leaves us with two dead townies.

[thinktank]

Based on the evidence:
Sekinj has been probing more than any townie should for information, especially on day 1 (see my reference to "scumtastic post"). As well as asking for gender and names. She has claimed really early and essentially provided no useful information, You could argue that the information has caused chaos among the town rather than shed light ( OMGL CC).

OMGL: counterclaimed saying he has no night action.

Occam's Razor: "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best".

You tell me which one is simpler.

[Mariyta]

Okay, on one hand we have a player who has appeared scummy before and claims that he is the only one without a night action. On the other hand, we have a player who claims not to have a night action and that the first player is scum because of it. Now, what I think the town needs to know is if there is any more information out there that has the potential to help decide who is the scummier. I have information regarding what I have asked of the two players, and both wish to not give any more out. But the problem is, the Town has no way of knowing if OhGodMyLife has a night action or not if Sekinj is lynched. But if OhGodMyLife is lynched, I predict that the only information we will receive is some flavour text about where he was when "an angry mob", I assume, scooped him up and hung him, role name and character's name.

So, I guess the questions that remain are, do we think that either way is a strong enough argument? Do we have enough information about both Sekinj and OhGodMyLife to make a decisive lynch?

We'll also know if OGML is scum or not if we lynch him (same with Sekinj). Neither is willing to reveal any more information at this point, and it's basically a guessing match until they do. I'm not getting a super scummy vibe from Sekinj, so my vote is staying where it is at the moment, as I can easily see scum doing what OGML has done. Of course, I might be giving the scum in this game too much credit. I guess we'll find out.

[ThAdmiral]

I don't think the binary equation is going to work in this one. Doesn't anyone smell something fishy?

Why would sekinj claim something that could so obviously be countered if he was scum?
If he just said 9 out of 11 people had no night abilities then no single town on their own would have been able to prove him wrong.

Why would ogml lie about not having an ability therefore proving sekinj wrong when he will obviously be lynched if sekinj turns up town?

It just doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it.