Mini 634 - The Baron's court: Game over

[sekinj]

No, I didn't get anything last night.

Vote count

(8 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(1) Gremwell – Mariyta
(1) sekinj – Rage

Not voting:

Gremwell, MafiaMann, raverblood, sekinj, Singing Librarian, thinktank

Deadline:

Thursday 4 September 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[sekinj]

For clarity: my post 372 should say 'note' singular instead of notes, because I have in fact only received one which was on N0.

[Gremwell]

well are you able to send letters or correspond with the source of the info in some way?

[Rage]

Your nickname is in no way descriptive of your character?

Oh it is definitely descriptive of my character, but that is not the same as how I am allowed to play the game. It's also very relative to my role-name, but I wouldn't mind giving it away. I also don’t mind claiming right here and now, but that’s not usually how things are done.

However, the names of the roles, like chancellor or squire, cannot in themselves indicate a night choice or not. Each of us has a different role name, there arn't just 3 townies and 2 scum. These are not your regular roles, people. Look at the trouble we had with BeastMaster. How does anyone know for sure the beastnaster character had a night action?? Maybe we have a Butler role, but what night action would that character have? my point is, we cannot speculate about the night choices with only the role name to go on. The role name in itself gives us next to no information, while the nickname is significant.

Are you proposing that role names have no significance in this game? That they are a representation of nicknames, not the other way around?

Mariyta, you mentioned something may be missing, and I think whatever it is, it's on purpose. When a player dies only their name and role-name are given, nothing indicating night choice. This has happened three times, three different players. Therefore, we can only trust someone's word, which is null unless their role has been confirmed, and we haven't achieved this with OhGodMyLife, nor have we with Sekinj, nor anyone yet. I'm think I'm at a pretty solid part of the game right now that I am capable of confirming my role to the Town, which is why I'm fine with giving out any necessary information. I'll prove that my nickname gives me no limitations, and no restrictions, as Sekinj is implying OhGodMyLife had against him.

[sekinj]

well are you able to send letters or correspond with the source of the info in some way?

no, I am not able to do any of that. the only thing I can do at night is wait until the thread is unlocked. I have absolutely nothing that I can do until the thread is opened again. I just wait.

[Gremwell]

eh, thought I might have had something there

[sekinj]

This is very frustrating. You guys aren't understanding me.

Your nickname is in no way descriptive of your character?

Oh it is definitely descriptive of my character, but that is not the same as how I am allowed to play the game. It's also very relative to my role-name, but I wouldn't mind giving it away. I also don’t mind claiming right here and now, but that’s not usually how things are done.

Well, that's what I mean! The nicknames are indicitive of your character.

However, the names of the roles, like chancellor or squire, cannot in themselves indicate a night choice or not. Each of us has a different role name, there arn't just 3 townies and 2 scum. These are not your regular roles, people. Look at the trouble we had with BeastMaster. How does anyone know for sure the beastnaster character had a night action?? Maybe we have a Butler role, but what night action would that character have? my point is, we cannot speculate about the night choices with only the role name to go on. The role name in itself gives us next to no information, while the nickname is significant.

Are you proposing that role names have no significance in this game? That they are a representation of nicknames, not the other way around?

I'm saying we don't have enough information to guess the night action/choice by just the role name. Unlike Townie or Mafia where we know exactly what each role does, we cannot guess what a beast master does by just the name. It's like if you were a newb to any mafia game (rl or online) and someone just said the word 'Mason'. You wouldn't have any idea what that person's night or day duties were. It is the same here, we can't tell by just the word because all of these roles are made up.
However, the nicknames on the other hand, DO tell us something! They are descriptive of our characters (not of us personally or our playstyle, just our character). And different characters may have to act a certain way at certain times because of retrictions or threats made against them. Just think about it. Already in this game we have votes taken away from people. How hard is it to believe that other things are happening that may force people to post certain things?

[Rage]

Oh, I see a lot was posted before I made my latest post, so I'll read through that and answer it later. But I'll be having limited access to a computer today and tomorrow, and should be able to get online very late in the day, which is no biggie.

[Singing Librarian]

My nickname makes sense, but does not affect my actual play in any way. I suppose it's possible that OGML's reflected some part of his role as squires are not generally known for their capriciousness - or are they? I'm not overly convinced, though.

My vague suspicion of thinktank is increasing due to refusal to reveal gender - how could it possibly do any harm? Also, is it me or was mafiamann's flip-flop on that issue rather alarming? I suppose at least thinktank is sticking to his/her guns on the issue rather than drifting with the wind.

[sekinj]

Pbpa thinktank - words in "" are quotes, the rest is paraphrased. some are just general comments, other things are scummy. I think there is a pattern.
DAY 1
Post 2 – discourages speculating about roles
Post 4 – discourages lurking (directed at raver)
Post 5 – “scumastic post”

more analysis would be nice

Post 6 – “you really like claims don’t you.”

I was just asking for info, but one liners are not very helpful

Post 7 – misunderstands one of my clues
Post 10 – criticizes Sing for stating the obvious

(that seems much better than stating not much at all, which thinktank has done up to this point)

Summerizes thoughts on OGML and myself, says OGML seems more town. Pressures me to give more clues to prove myself
Post 11 – criticizes me for “probing”. Says I have not provided useful info. Says I should be lynched because that is the simplest solution.
Post 13 – again pressures me and OGML for more info/clues/talking in order “to decide which one is in fact lying”
Post 15 – directed at me “Giving more [info] out now would be a bad idea…”

He has been pressuring me to give out more and now suddenly he is advising I sgive out No more

Post 16 – Agrees with mafiamann that it is not necessarily true that one of either me or OGML HAVE to be scum. We could both be “somewhere in between.”

I’m not sure what somewhere in between means, but I do agree with mafiamann that it is not a black and white issue. This is was proven (to me) when OGML flipped town.

Post 17 – “Why is OMGL the best candidate”
Post 18 – Defends his posts for going along with the crowd. “I don't see why either of them would be lying because it would pretty stupid if either of them were. I'm more inclined to believe Sekinj at this point because why would someone claim so early with information that is SO easily countered.”

he contradicts himself. He says it doesn’t make sense for either of us to be lying, but that I am more believable.

Post 19 – Fos’s rage for boldly asking for more info
Post 20 – criticizes mar’s defensiveness
Post 21 – “We know definitely that one of them is lying. Figuring out which one is lying is a herculean feat in itself because it seems that even they do not know which one of them is lying. Meaning either one or both of them are scum or some of the information that they've been given is false, which is also bad for the town.”

Mar brought this up previously. This is one MAJOR flip-flop. This completely contradicts his posts 16 and 18.

Post 22 – fos’s raver for voting ogml without stating evidence
DAY 2
Post 23 – cautions against analyzing nks
Post 24 – fos’s MM for not using “fact and evidence to hunt scum.” But instead using “WIFOM and feelings”

fosing seems to be a favorite for thinktank

Post 25 – refuses to reveal character gender and directed at me states “that there is a good possibility that you’re insane”

he is male, btw

Post 26 – says OGML’s role name makes him obviously vanilla.

NO ONE is vanilla in this game! even i have special info, even though I have no night choices

Post 27 – “just as much as we can’t speculate on night choices, we can not speculate on the nicknames…”.

He was the one who started the speculation on roles. If he is saying to me that I can’t speculate on nicknames unless I am willing to speculate on roles, the opposite goes for him. If he is willing to speculate on roles, then he has to be willing to speculate on nicknames as well. However, I do believe (as I have already stated) that it is pointless to speculate on roles (because of our lack of ‘experience’ in this mafia world), but since our nicknames are just descriptions of our characters, we CAN more accuratly speculate about the nicknames.

Thinktank never answered or even commented on Mar’s point about him flip-flopping. IMO that has beent he biggest scum-tell yet in this game. I’d like to see him explain himself now.
Also, I don't understand him pressuring me and OGML for more info and then suddenly advising me to save it. Just too many flip-flops.

[sekinj]

Vote: thinktank

[MafiaMann]

My nickname makes sense, but does not affect my actual play in any way. I suppose it's possible that OGML's reflected some part of his role as squires are not generally known for their capriciousness - or are they? I'm not overly convinced, though.

My vague suspicion of thinktank is increasing due to refusal to reveal gender - how could it possibly do any harm? Also, is it me or was mafiamann's flip-flop on that issue rather alarming? I suppose at least thinktank is sticking to his/her guns on the issue rather than drifting with the wind.

Ive explained my flip flop im not gonna withhold info from the town i they want it.

[thinktank]

Last day, I was being flippant between the possibility that neither of you were scum or one of you was scum. My opinion kept changing because you acted quite scummy at times and then not so scummy at times, so it was very difficult to get a read with no actual information.

Btw, don't try to misrepresent me. I never probed you for information. I said more talk was needed between the two of you (sekinj and OMGL) which means you need to talk more and which gives more evidence not that you need to reveal more info..
As for your case on me:

I find it funny that the majority of things you've stated there are actually pro-town
actions...

Post 2 – discourages speculating about roles
Post 4 – discourages lurking (directed at sraver)
criticizes Sing for stating the obvious
Post 11 – criticizes me for “probing”. Says I have not provided useful info. Says I should be lynched because that is the simplest solution.
Post 15 – directed at me “Giving more [info] out now would be a bad idea…” He has been pressuring me to give out more and now suddenly he is advising I sgive out No more
Post 19 – Fos’s rage for boldly asking for more info
Post 20 – criticizes mar’s defensiveness
fos’s raver for voting ogml without stating evidence
DAY 2
Post 23 – cautions against analyzing nks
Post 24 – fos’s MM for not using “fact and evidence to hunt scum.” But instead using “WIFOM and feelings”
refuses to reveal character gender and directed at me states “that there is a good possibility that you’re insane”he is male, btw

I will give you the fact that I was not being very solid in my opinions day 1 regarding you and OMGL . Besides that, everything you have just said about me is pro town.

Therefore:

YOUR CASE = EPIC FAIL

[Rage]

My nickname makes sense, but does not affect my actual play in any way. I suppose it's possible that OGML's reflected some part of his role as squires are not generally known for their capriciousness - or are they? I'm not overly convinced, though.

My vague suspicion of thinktank is increasing due to refusal to reveal gender - how could it possibly do any harm? Also, is it me or was mafiamann's flip-flop on that issue rather alarming? I suppose at least thinktank is sticking to his/her guns on the issue rather than drifting with the wind.

Ive explained my flip flop im not gonna withhold info from the town i they want it.

But I was the only one who asked for it..

[sekinj]

Last day, I was being flippant between the possibility that neither of you were scum or one of you was scum. My opinion kept changing because you acted quite scummy at times and then not so scummy at times, so it was very difficult to get a read with no actual information.

Flippant = not a good explanation. Flip-flopping = good explanation.

Can you quote where I'm acting scummy and where I'm not? As far as I know I've been doing the same thing throughout the whole game, which is sharing tid-bits of info, and ask for tid-bits of info. I can understand how that can be intrepreted as scummy, but I can't understand how that is scummy sometimes and not other times.

[sekinj]

[quote="thinktank"]
Btw, don't try to misrepresent me. I never probed you for information. I said more talk was needed between the two of you (sekinj and OMGL) which means you need to talk more and which gives more evidence not that you need to reveal more info..

So me and OGML should have jsut talked amoung ourselves? What did you want me to say if you maintain that I wasn't supposed to give any more info, but just 'talk'? Should I have let OGML know how my day was going?

[sekinj]

EBWOP:

Btw, don't try to misrepresent me. I never probed you for information. I said more talk was needed between the two of you (sekinj and OMGL) which means you need to talk more and which gives more evidence not that you need to reveal more info..

So me and OGML should have jsut talked amoung ourselves? What did you want me to say if you maintain that I wasn't supposed to give any more info, but just 'talk'? Should I have let OGML know how my day was going?

[sekinj]

I find it funny that the majority of things you've stated there are actually pro-town
actions...

Post 2 – discourages speculating about roles

Neutral

Post 4 – discourages lurking (directed at sraver)

pro-town

criticizes Sing for stating the obvious

neutral

Post 11 – criticizes me for “probing”. Says I have not provided useful info. Says I should be lynched because that is the simplest solution.

Is tryign the simplest solution REALLY protown? No, this is at best neutral

Post 15 – directed at me “Giving more [info] out now would be a bad idea…” He has been pressuring me to give out more and now suddenly he is advising I sgive out No more

yes, this DOES look protown. However, it contradicts what you have said twice before, which suddenly makes it SCUMMY

Post 19 – Fos’s rage for boldly asking for more info

just pointing out you affinity for fos's. fosing isn't scummy OR protown, just neutral

Post 20 – criticizes mar’s defensiveness

pro-town

fos’s raver for voting ogml without stating evidence

fos=neutral

DAY 2
Post 23 – cautions against analyzing nks

neutral

Post 24 – fos’s MM for not using “fact and evidence to hunt scum.” But instead using “WIFOM and feelings”

fos=neutral

refuses to reveal character gender and directed at me states “that there is a good possibility that you’re insane”he is male, btw

since everyone else had revealed, and there is more town than scum, it seems like the more protown thing to do at the moment is reveal.

I will give you the fact that I was not being very solid in my opinions day 1 regarding you and OMGL . Besides that, everything you have just said about me is pro town.

I added everything in bold. I already said at the beginning of my pbpa that some were just general comments. Most of those things are neutral and NOT pro-town.

[raverblood]

sorry i was away for a while will read up on the post. but what i did catch so far i will have to reread. for some reason i dont feel that the post on what thinktank has said was scum tells. granted i will re read them when i wake in the morn,

[sekinj]

well, no that the weekend is over... What does everyone think? i think thinkank...

[sekinj]

EBWOP:

well, now that the weekend is over... What does everyone think? I think thinktank...

Fixed. (no I wasn't drunk)

[Rage]

We are quite the active players, aren't we? Well, I always have something to say, so I might as well recount some events.

To recap, Sekinj claims to be the only player who has no night action/choice. OhGodMyLife counterclaims, saying he has no night action. OhGodMyLife is lynched and flips Town, name and role revealed. Sekinj claims that OhGodMyLife must have had to counterclaim him because his nickname is/was 'Capricious'.

@Sekinj, is that the only reason why the Town should not lynch you right now? It seems to me that the only thing keeping you alive right now is WIFOM, that

you

presented, and now you have moved past this and are attacking thinktank.

And regarding the recent troubles between Sekinj and Thinktank:

Thinktank never answered or even commented on Mar’s point about him flip-flopping. IMO that has beent he biggest scum-tell yet in this game. I’d like to see him explain himself now.

I'd also like to hear what Thinktank has to say regarding Mariyta's post (below):

I see a few possibilities besides OMGL is lieing or sekinj is lieing...

I like this. One of them doesn't necessarily have to be scum, they could both be somewhere in between. I still need to hear from OMGL though..

We know definitely that one of them is lying. Figuring out which one is lying is a herculean feat in itself because it seems that even they do not know which one of them is lying. Meaning either one or both of them are scum or some of the information that they've been given is false, which is also bad for the town.

A) Which is it? B) Do you still feel the same?

[Rage]

EBWOP:

well, now that the weekend is over... What does everyone think? I think thinktank...

Fixed. (no I wasn't drunk)

Wait, how is that fixed? You "think thinktank"? Still doesn't make sense to me.

[Mariyta]

EBWOP:

well, now that the weekend is over... What does everyone think? I think thinktank...

Fixed. (no I wasn't drunk)

Wait, how is that fixed? You "think thinktank"? Still doesn't make sense to me.

I think he was referring to "now", not the end. He thinks Thinktank is the play for the day.

I think either Gremwell, or MafiaMann. However, I think Rage asked Sekinj some decent questions, so I'd like the answers to those. And I'd still like an answer to my question for Thinktank.

@Gremwell: Who do you think is scum, and why?

@thinktank: Please answer my question.

@sekinj: Please answer Rage's question.

@MafiaMann: Why are you so scummy?

@raver: Did you get that re-read done? What were your conclusions?

[MafiaMann]

is that a serious question