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He's lucky it's ME who got this role (because I'm too stubborn to replace out), because the VAST majority of Scummers, if they had the role I do, would quickly lose interest in the game and replace out/flake.
...Basically, I'm a tree stump with all the sucky parts but none of the benefits. I'm voteless, will become conftown on D3, and yet, distinctly,
lack
the immunity to actions (in particular, y'know, NIGHTKILLS) that come with 'stumps. Yeah. I'm a bit bitter.
In post 7, mastin2 wrote:(My vote is showing up in the list of votes though, so this is something which you'll probably want to test at some point. Needless to say, though, I'm telling the truth; I have no vote right now no matter what the votecount says.)
"He’s a frozen treat with a whole new taste, because he came to this planet from outer space. A refugee of an interstellar war, but now he’s at your local grocery store. Cookie Cat! He’s a pet for your tummy! Cookie Cat! He’s super duper yummy! Cookie Cat! He left his family behind! Cookie Caaat!
Post
Post #113 (isolation #1) » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:53 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
In post 48, Beer wrote:I might be tipsy, but Sonic looks really evil.
Reasonably Rational looks like a puke stain on the wall.
Grapes looks like that guy at a party who's trying too hard to impress and is actually really sleazy and someone who you should probably not befriend because they will do bad things to you after drugging you or something.
Hm.
VOTE: Sonic
Puke stain on the wall? Please, enlighten me.
In post 58, grapes wrote:Beer has the least annoying gimmick I've seen in a while. I think they're also pretty town so far in.
The biggest ping I've felt was reasonably rationals entrance. Just slightly awkward. Not sure if it was the overfocusing on claims part or just the outside looking in vibe I got from it but I'm interested in seeing more of them.
And more than half the playerlist for that matter.
What would you like to see more of from me? And yes, it was absolutely an outside looking in vibe, that's kinda how I approach things(I like that description). I try to take in an image of the game and how things interact and relate to each other.
In post 60, Trench Warfare wrote:Cerb, can you ask Drixx if we can ally? I think it would help the four of us read each other better tonight and get grips on things.
I have asked, I don't mind, contingent upon your slot not being super scummy today. It would be helpful to have insight into each others thoughts so we can avoid certain personality and play style frictions.
In post 107, Cheetory6 wrote:Or Beer/vezok could be scum, with a scum-flavoured role, with a fakeclaim to prevent massclaim bullshit on D1.
Unlikely. D1 bus, in the first few pages of the thread? And double voting scum? Yeah, I don't think so.
Entry post in the scum PT as yeah, I am scum, seems pretty dumb, but plausible I guess, as is the PT mix up. Willing to vote Beers slot, pending Drixxs approval, but unwilling to rush into a lynch.
In post 29, vezokpiraka wrote:He claimed scum pretty much. It's pretty hard to paraphrase.
Also as you can see I'm a double voter.
I am not so sure. I think I know what is going on with Mastina, but revealing what is a lie and what is true would be anti-town.
I will keep reading to see if that is right.
~Titus
Titus completely walled herself in with the whole D3 thing. I don't see why anyone would want to even really do much more than keep notes on her before then. There's already much more interesting things (Like apparently a Bud Light spilling itself into the wrong PT). But ... it's a Bud Light ... I mean what are we
really
expecting here?
In post 60, Trench Warfare wrote:Cerb, can you ask Drixx if we can ally? I think it would help the four of us read each other better tonight and get grips on things.
He asked, we concurred. Unless you derail into Scumville today we plan to attempt to do the thing. Great idea.
In post 70, Trench Warfare wrote:We should all totally fuse. Each and every night. Day 1 we should fuse with people we don't understand to try and further the game and limit ego fights.
~Titus
This. So much this. If there's someone you just can't read or who can't read you, can you please go get a room tonight and figure it out? That should totally have been like a gigantic font PSA or something.
In post 82, vezokpiraka wrote:No it's chill. We're totally roleplaying. But only in our private char. You know. For authenticity. /sarcasm.
WTF are you talking about roleplaying? I know Lars is a bit assholish in the show, but he's scum here.
Don't do this to me when I'm drinking my coffee. I had to clean up a mess.
In post 135, Fluminator wrote:My role is pretty cool.
I have less cell service than I though so I doubt I'll be able to post much for the first week. I'll do my best.
Hi. I'm going to give an excuse to be a lurksack in my first post. Please don't notice.
In post 152, Cheetory6 wrote:I'd be scared to rely too much on flavour.
Would be super duper probable that Varsoon would counterbalance that stuffs.
And cool cool, is it like a casual random pawnshop sorta place or like an EBgames?
I think Varsoon could design and balance around the actual show, as long as he provided the scum team with proper fake claims so that any kind of mass claim doesn't screw them. Yeah?
In post 28, Ricastle wrote:Oh, I see. Mastin is just plain voteless, not an actual stump.
Treestump = conftown who can't be targeted by anything, at the small price of not counting as alive and thus not having a vote. Sometimes triggered at will.
Me = will become conftown upon a trigger (D3), like a treestump, and being voteless, like a treestump, but lacking the immunity of a treestump, able to be voted, lynched, targeted by night actions, and nightkilled.
Like I said. All the sucky parts without any of the real benefits.
But I can't emphasize enough how much my vote should be on Beer right now. (After all, they're too filled with wine to be town!)
This gives me deja vu, but in a good way since I totally won that game. I'm sorry again, by the way. We should probably let Mastin mastastasize into whatever she's becoming.
I wonder if she's actually dead, or there's totally some crazy twist planned there? I suppose that scene is ambiguous in case the actress won't come back or something?
Post
Post #271 (isolation #8) » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:34 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
Farside: I'm at work and I hate the early game, as well as disagreeing with the idea that people can (usually) have meaningful reasons for reads at this stage of the game(which is why I hate this stage of the game), so...perhaps Drixx can give you a reads list, but I won't right this second(beyond maintaining that vezok and mastin feel town, but thats alignment cofirmation by role, which I think is stupid so it should be disregarded). Drixx and I actually haven't really discussed our thoughts on any slots in depth so far.
Radman's scum read consists of many small things that indicate he may be scum, I'll be going over them and explaining them here.
To start with in his post 111 he says he's willing to ally with anyone, really town should be focusing on allying with town. This is a weak tell I'll admit, however I wanted it mentioned.
Later in that same post he throws shade onto Mastin, yet does not actually vote. Taking a look at his post count reveals he's a newer player and throwing shade onto people yet not committing to a push is something newish scum seem to love doing.
There's the same none commitment to his reads in 161, they are full of "I'm not sure" or "something feels weird". Yet he doesn't actually full out say "x is town/scum". Why would this be scummy play?
Well not committing to a read makes it easier for you to change your reads along with the crowd, it is often accompanied with opportunistic voting. 167 is him continuing to throw shade over mastin yet he still doesn't vote.
Interestingly enough he's completely forgotten his mastin read now. He's changed to asking questions which look useful but actually hold no worth.
Then there's his most recent post:
"Or maybe I'm scum like you said"
That one line is so off it's unbelievable. He's also just OMGUS'ing coolDog without actually committing to a push on him. Showing he's very aware of what people think of him and his continuation of him having fluid reads.
Pr-edit:
Why the fuck do you not vote any of your scum reads yet you vote the one you thought could be town?
You know ... I don't feel particularly well today. And your post just for whatever reason tickled the wrong part of me.
So here's how this is going to go.
You are going to give a reads list and tell us who is town and who is scum. Right now.
For every read you get wrong, you can pay me $5 real money after the game. You seem convinced that the rest of us should be voting for people and should have comprehensive reads.
Put your money where your mouth is, or drop it.
@Farside - As a rule I don't submit to people's "demands". You demanded something of me, so I'm going to just not do it. I'm not in this game to play it for you, nor am I in the habit of throwing up a list of "reads" early on day one when there are still people who don't even have significant content in the game. Demanding a reads list at this point is basically translated as "Hi, I want some reason to push a case on your slot, so give me a reads list so I can cherry pick things from it to make you look bad". Nobody playing the game right now could possibly have a reads list with any accuracy, and anyone who will give me a reads list that isn't almost completely "null" right now, and agree to pay me $5 for every wrong read at the end is far too full of themselves and could do with the ego puncturing.
@Everyone - What on earth led to the site meta of people who don't give reads themselves demanding other people produce a fully annotated list of reads, on the spot, or else ... it's nearly the worst thing about this site. It's a horrible practice, and people doing it should be lynched off on principle. If you want to know what a particular person thinks about something, as a specific question. Randomly picking one person and demanding they produce something that cannot possibly be accurate and which nobody else has done (including, in every case I can recall, the demander), and which if the person is dumb enough to actually submit to said demand, they are then enslaved to meeting all other demands afterward ... it's irrational bordering on insane. It's also asinine and a super lazy and sleezy tactic.
@Radmann - Start actually playing the game and stop with the "I'm going to suggest people are scum one at a time to look like I'm doing something" strategy, or I'm going to push to lynch you just on principle.
Post
Post #351 (isolation #10) » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:37 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
Blah. I was irritated at Farside's demand of a reads list. I don't know why I quoted you.
And yes, despite myself I did reveal a read ... but I mean anyone who is paying attention to the game probably has the heebie jeebies about radmann at the moment, yeah?
Radman's scum read consists of many small things that indicate he may be scum, I'll be going over them and explaining them here.
To start with in his post 111 he says he's willing to ally with anyone, really town should be focusing on allying with town. This is a weak tell I'll admit, however I wanted it mentioned.
Later in that same post he throws shade onto Mastin, yet does not actually vote. Taking a look at his post count reveals he's a newer player and throwing shade onto people yet not committing to a push is something newish scum seem to love doing.
There's the same none commitment to his reads in 161, they are full of "I'm not sure" or "something feels weird". Yet he doesn't actually full out say "x is town/scum". Why would this be scummy play?
Well not committing to a read makes it easier for you to change your reads along with the crowd, it is often accompanied with opportunistic voting. 167 is him continuing to throw shade over mastin yet he still doesn't vote.
Interestingly enough he's completely forgotten his mastin read now. He's changed to asking questions which look useful but actually hold no worth.
Then there's his most recent post:
"Or maybe I'm scum like you said"
That one line is so off it's unbelievable. He's also just OMGUS'ing coolDog without actually committing to a push on him. Showing he's very aware of what people think of him and his continuation of him having fluid reads.
Pr-edit:
Why the fuck do you not vote any of your scum reads yet you vote the one you thought could be town?
You know ... I don't feel particularly well today. And your post just for whatever reason tickled the wrong part of me.
So here's how this is going to go.
You are going to give a reads list and tell us who is town and who is scum. Right now.
For every read you get wrong, you can pay me $5 real money after the game. You seem convinced that the rest of us should be voting for people and should have comprehensive reads.
Put your money where your mouth is, or drop it.
@Farside - As a rule I don't submit to people's "demands". You demanded something of me, so I'm going to just not do it. I'm not in this game to play it for you, nor am I in the habit of throwing up a list of "reads" early on day one when there are still people who don't even have significant content in the game. Demanding a reads list at this point is basically translated as "Hi, I want some reason to push a case on your slot, so give me a reads list so I can cherry pick things from it to make you look bad". Nobody playing the game right now could possibly have a reads list with any accuracy, and anyone who will give me a reads list that isn't almost completely "null" right now, and agree to pay me $5 for every wrong read at the end is far too full of themselves and could do with the ego puncturing.
@Everyone - What on earth led to the site meta of people who don't give reads themselves demanding other people produce a fully annotated list of reads, on the spot, or else ... it's nearly the worst thing about this site. It's a horrible practice, and people doing it should be lynched off on principle. If you want to know what a particular person thinks about something, as a specific question. Randomly picking one person and demanding they produce something that cannot possibly be accurate and which nobody else has done (including, in every case I can recall, the demander), and which if the person is dumb enough to actually submit to said demand, they are then enslaved to meeting all other demands afterward ... it's irrational bordering on insane. It's also asinine and a super lazy and sleezy tactic.
@Radmann - Start actually playing the game and stop with the "I'm going to suggest people are scum one at a time to look like I'm doing something" strategy, or I'm going to push to lynch you just on principle.
{Rant Mode Off}
~Love, Drixx
Yeah! What he said!
-Cerb
P.S. Tunnel warriors, I'm not sure I like your role reveal. The multiple alliances thing was fine, and all you had to say. The bit about protecting everyone? Yeah, that makes you a target, and the role is far too useful mid-late game for you to paint a target on yourself on day 1, and I'm sure you realize that. Oh, and then you say bad things happen to scum when you die? Nice way to disincentivize town from lynching you, while simultaneously explaining away your continued survival. Not sure I buy any of the shit you're selling.
Post
Post #482 (isolation #14) » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:54 pm
Postby Reasonably Rational »
Other than the thing in the Vezok/Beer PT, I feel pretty good about them as town. It doesn't...make sense to do any of what vezok said they did as scum, where's the value? I'm no longer willing to vote Beer.
Grapes: We are Reasonably Rational, not RR. I eagerly await the continued evolution of your read on this slot, and the rest of the slots.
Vezok: Can your double vote be split up?
Grapes: Can your double vote be consolidated?
Either way, please demonstrate what your response is true with an attempt to perform the vote change I've asked if you are capable of performing.
For science.
-Cerb
Ugh. First slip. So sorry.
Anyways, please don't cause a sudden lynch with this, and I only ask that you keep the votes wherever you attempt to put them for a vote count, just to confirm your attempt did or did not work. Also, Drixx is feeling a bit under the weather, so it will mostly just be me playing until he's feeling better.
Post
Post #535 (isolation #16) » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:32 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
Somehow, two of my posts in a row were eaten. ugh.
Umm, so i searched for "mason" and did not find any mention of it other than Cooldogs post. Did I miss something?
Tunnel: I have no objection to the proposed large alliance. I'm not sure what additional input you want regarding your roles utility. Any further planning requires knowledge of how many shots you have, any limitations your power might have, and basically just your full role, and I don't want that information.
I can understand the people who want to keep the alliances between mutual town reads, but I think it's much stronger to use as an opportunity to get additional interaction and conversation in with a null read or someone whose playstyle/thought process you simply don't understand well enough to determine if what they're doing in thread makes sense for town them or scum them.
Sure you're (marginally, and then only if your ability to identify town is incredibly accurate) more likely to involve scum in such an alliance, and perhaps enhance them somehow...but I certainly imagine whatever mechanical advantage scum get out of being in an alliance could be gained by allying internally. Perhaps I'm wrong, and they *can't* ally each other, or perhaps they don't get any benefit from it, or perhaps the benefit they get is stronger if allied with town. Sure. All possibilities. I just don't think it's we are all so good at identifying town, that we'll be able to prevent that from happening if we *only* ally with our town reads, and doing so puts us in a position where we likely wind up with people who don't end up allying, and thus we waste opportunities to gain more information about different slots, and utilize whatever benefits come from the alliances for town.
Post
Post #546 (isolation #18) » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:19 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
Sorry to burst your bubble Farside, but I universally despise people being lazy or scummy (or both!) and demanding reads lists from people on day one. I have given that response before and I will give it again. I give reads when I have something to say that is worth the time I'm asking of everyone. Town-ness isn't something people gain on day one, outside of mod confirmed town situations like masons and the like. You earn a town read from me by playing to the town's win condition. Scum reads come when I see scum screw up their narratives, and I am good enough at spotting it that I even spotted it in SMITE when I assumed someone was town, and I still caught a couple of legit scum slips on his part. If you are scum ... pique my curiosity at your peril.
So stop with the bullshit about me, because Cerberus was quite right that I don't feel well and I'm apt to be grumpy until the doctors resolve the underlying problems that are causing it. I'll do my best to keep from picking any fights, but poke me at your peril. Cerberus and myself are notoriously difficult to read early on, but you're just embarrassing yourself with the tripe you're posting right now. Time to move on and tunnel elsewhere.
Post
Post #547 (isolation #19) » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:23 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
In post 544, farside22 wrote:Why rational is scum.
1. Focus onset up.
2. Responds to stuff only directed to them
3. No scum hunting
4. Passive agressive bs when pushed to make reads.
5. Saying post eater reads fake
6. Pushed one scum read for weak reasons.
He's lucky it's ME who got this role (because I'm too stubborn to replace out), because the VAST majority of Scummers, if they had the role I do, would quickly lose interest in the game and replace out/flake.
...Basically, I'm a tree stump with all the sucky parts but none of the benefits. I'm voteless, will become conftown on D3, and yet, distinctly,
lack
the immunity to actions (in particular, y'know, NIGHTKILLS) that come with 'stumps. Yeah. I'm a bit bitter.
In post 7, mastin2 wrote:(My vote is showing up in the list of votes though, so this is something which you'll probably want to test at some point. Needless to say, though, I'm telling the truth; I have no vote right now no matter what the votecount says.)
"He’s a frozen treat with a whole new taste, because he came to this planet from outer space. A refugee of an interstellar war, but now he’s at your local grocery store. Cookie Cat! He’s a pet for your tummy! Cookie Cat! He’s super duper yummy! Cookie Cat! He left his family behind! Cookie Caaat!
In post 48, Beer wrote:I might be tipsy, but Sonic looks really evil.
Reasonably Rational looks like a puke stain on the wall.
Grapes looks like that guy at a party who's trying too hard to impress and is actually really sleazy and someone who you should probably not befriend because they will do bad things to you after drugging you or something.
Hm.
VOTE: Sonic
Puke stain on the wall? Please, enlighten me.
In post 58, grapes wrote:Beer has the least annoying gimmick I've seen in a while. I think they're also pretty town so far in.
The biggest ping I've felt was reasonably rationals entrance. Just slightly awkward. Not sure if it was the overfocusing on claims part or just the outside looking in vibe I got from it but I'm interested in seeing more of them.
And more than half the playerlist for that matter.
What would you like to see more of from me? And yes, it was absolutely an outside looking in vibe, that's kinda how I approach things(I like that description). I try to take in an image of the game and how things interact and relate to each other.
In post 60, Trench Warfare wrote:Cerb, can you ask Drixx if we can ally? I think it would help the four of us read each other better tonight and get grips on things.
I have asked, I don't mind, contingent upon your slot not being super scummy today. It would be helpful to have insight into each others thoughts so we can avoid certain personality and play style frictions.
In post 107, Cheetory6 wrote:Or Beer/vezok could be scum, with a scum-flavoured role, with a fakeclaim to prevent massclaim bullshit on D1.
Unlikely. D1 bus, in the first few pages of the thread? And double voting scum? Yeah, I don't think so.
Entry post in the scum PT as yeah, I am scum, seems pretty dumb, but plausible I guess, as is the PT mix up. Willing to vote Beers slot, pending Drixxs approval, but unwilling to rush into a lynch.
In post 29, vezokpiraka wrote:He claimed scum pretty much. It's pretty hard to paraphrase.
Also as you can see I'm a double voter.
I am not so sure. I think I know what is going on with Mastina, but revealing what is a lie and what is true would be anti-town.
I will keep reading to see if that is right.
~Titus[/quote]
Titus completely walled herself in with the whole D3 thing. I don't see why anyone would want to even really do much more than keep notes on her before then. There's already much more interesting things (Like apparently a Bud Light spilling itself into the wrong PT). But ... it's a Bud Light ... I mean what are we
really
expecting here?
Spoiler:
In post 60, Trench Warfare wrote:Cerb, can you ask Drixx if we can ally? I think it would help the four of us read each other better tonight and get grips on things.
He asked, we concurred. Unless you derail into Scumville today we plan to attempt to do the thing. Great idea.
Spoiler:
In post 70, Trench Warfare wrote:We should all totally fuse. Each and every night. Day 1 we should fuse with people we don't understand to try and further the game and limit ego fights.
~Titus
This. So much this. If there's someone you just can't read or who can't read you, can you please go get a room tonight and figure it out? That should totally have been like a gigantic font PSA or something.
Spoiler:
In post 82, vezokpiraka wrote:No it's chill. We're totally roleplaying. But only in our private char. You know. For authenticity. /sarcasm.
WTF are you talking about roleplaying? I know Lars is a bit assholish in the show, but he's scum here.
Don't do this to me when I'm drinking my coffee. I had to clean up a mess.
Spoiler:
In post 135, Fluminator wrote:My role is pretty cool.
I have less cell service than I though so I doubt I'll be able to post much for the first week. I'll do my best.
Hi. I'm going to give an excuse to be a lurksack in my first post. Please don't notice.
Spoiler:
In post 152, Cheetory6 wrote:I'd be scared to rely too much on flavour.
Would be super duper probable that Varsoon would counterbalance that stuffs.
And cool cool, is it like a casual random pawnshop sorta place or like an EBgames?
I think Varsoon could design and balance around the actual show, as long as he provided the scum team with proper fake claims so that any kind of mass claim doesn't screw them. Yeah?
In post 28, Ricastle wrote:Oh, I see. Mastin is just plain voteless, not an actual stump.
Treestump = conftown who can't be targeted by anything, at the small price of not counting as alive and thus not having a vote. Sometimes triggered at will.
Me = will become conftown upon a trigger (D3), like a treestump, and being voteless, like a treestump, but lacking the immunity of a treestump, able to be voted, lynched, targeted by night actions, and nightkilled.
Like I said. All the sucky parts without any of the real benefits.
But I can't emphasize enough how much my vote should be on Beer right now. (After all, they're too filled with wine to be town!)
This gives me deja vu, but in a good way since I totally won that game. I'm sorry again, by the way. We should probably let Mastin mastastasize into whatever she's becoming.
Umm, so i searched for "mason" and did not find any mention of it other than Cooldogs post. Did I miss something?
Tunnel: I have no objection to the proposed large alliance. I'm not sure what additional input you want regarding your roles utility. Any further planning requires knowledge of how many shots you have, any limitations your power might have, and basically just your full role, and I don't want that information.
I can understand the people who want to keep the alliances between mutual town reads, but I think it's much stronger to use as an opportunity to get additional interaction and conversation in with a null read or someone whose playstyle/thought process you simply don't understand well enough to determine if what they're doing in thread makes sense for town them or scum them.
Sure you're (marginally, and then only if your ability to identify town is incredibly accurate) more likely to involve scum in such an alliance, and perhaps enhance them somehow...but I certainly imagine whatever mechanical advantage scum get out of being in an alliance could be gained by allying internally. Perhaps I'm wrong, and they *can't* ally each other, or perhaps they don't get any benefit from it, or perhaps the benefit they get is stronger if allied with town. Sure. All possibilities. I just don't think it's we are all so good at identifying town, that we'll be able to prevent that from happening if we *only* ally with our town reads, and doing so puts us in a position where we likely wind up with people who don't end up allying, and thus we waste opportunities to gain more information about different slots, and utilize whatever benefits come from the alliances for town.
-Cerb
[/quote]
1) Irrelevant. You're welcome to check out some of my(Cerb's) other games, but I hate the early game and setup spec/theory talk is what I do during it, because everything said at this point is null and useless until flips give context.
2) See above. And all my previous play, etc. I've also done more than just respond to things directed at myself, I've commented on a number of other items, but yes, generally I only stir myself into posting at this stage when a post is made which mentions me, or when something I find interesting(such as the multiple parties with interesting vote related abilities, which are all verifiable in thread and right now) shows up.
3) I think you just haven't followed the logical paths I have, so I can forgive not seeing what the aims of what I'm doing here are.
4) See 1/2. Same idea. All this D1 bs is just that. Blind leading the blind, etc. I don't place any particular value in the reads I have right now(all of which, btw, are actually currently available in my ISO, if not in a single easily quotable post), so I'm not going to waste my time wracking my brain for why I feel x y or z are scum/town when there's little rational reasoning behind the feelings. Look at the hydra name, it's there for a reason.
5) WTF? Really? I express disgust at the fact that I had to type up fundamentally the same post three times, twice on MOBILE, before I finally gave up and actually used my work computer to make the post, and that is somehow a scum tell?
6)Not sure what you're talking about exactly? How can you say in the same post both that we're not giving reads, and that we're pushing our scum reads? Either you're picking up on our reads from what we're saying, and we've pushed something(which I actually don't even see, but maybe I missed a Drixx post?), OR we're not actually giving out any reads.
Also, you're welcome to ask me any question about anything and anyone and I'll absolutely answer it. I just don't see any reason to post about things if I don't have anything constructive to add to a discussion. I know my alignment. Generally speaking, I'm way more interested in what everybody else is saying about a subject and how they're interacting in regards to it, than I am in what my thoughts on the subject are.
-Cerb
P.S. I saw Drixx made a post too, but I typed all this up and you're all going to read it damn it!
I should stop making cases on my phone, sorry mod for the mess.
@rational: what is the difference between asking for reads and asking you about players in the game?
Are you saying all you do is sit on your ass all game and throw words out with no scum hunting.
Finally: 1 negative comment about 1 player is not scum hunting. Saying so is bs.
@cooldog: stfu
I think there have been 3 comments about other individuals play that either Drixx or myself have made, once about tunnel, once about radmann, and once about yourself. I don't think any of those comments were scumhunting though. I'm just saying you're implying that we aren't offering up any reads while simultaneously saying we made a weak push on a scum read of ours. Perhaps you just spoke imprecisely, but it is impossible for you to know we made a weak push on a scum read of ours, unless we've also, whether subtly or overtly, made you aware of said scum read. Even the act itself, if you view it as an actual push, is an indication of our read on a slot.
The difference between asking for reads and asking me about players in the game?
Asking for a list of reads is lazy on your part, when those reads are scattered throughout my ISO. It just means even though you clearly read our ISO, you couldn't be bothered to do more than cherry pick those quotes that demonstrate the points you wanted demonstrated, while ignoring the other information about my slot that could be gleaned from them. Asking specific questions about specific players show ME and the rest of the town where your focus and thoughts are, and probably also shows information about how you feel about those subjects you're asking about. This is all useful information to town, and things scum want to obfuscate.
So, in short, asking for a list of reads(on day 1, ESPECIALLY) is both lazy, and bad scumhunting. Not alignment indicative, but it doesn't really help you much. Asking me for a specific thought on a specific subject? Not lazy, requires some thoughts about the game, forces me to either ignore the question or look at the interaction in question and give you my response. If I'm scum, it forces me to fabricate a much firmer stance on a subject than a nebulous day 1 reads list does. If I'm town, it makes my town voice ring louder and more noticeably.
CoolDoG: How do you feel about Tunnel attempting to control the actions of TWO other players?
Post
Post #553 (isolation #22) » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:41 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
Oh, and if you read what I said, it's that I hate early game. It's messy and icky and people just run around generally being idiots who think they know a lot more than they do. Once there is more data to work off of, I like to dive in and analyze play and find inconsistencies in opinions expressed, vote patterns, and associations, using the verifiable facts from the game.
Try to keep your confbiasing from letting you actually read what I wrote, rather than what you wish I had said.
Post
Post #561 (isolation #26) » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:33 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
In post 559, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:RR- huh..what was the point of that besides to draw needless attention on yourself? Not a town move imho.
I like Skybirds response of why he/she is not jumping on the Beer wagon . I think she/he is being genuine. I didn't read anything in the comments that made me think that they were trying to needless avoid voting beer
Not sure what could make of the cop directing. I can see town doing this but I can also see scum ( especially a Godfather role ) also asking for that. For me personally this is null
Agreed. I think Drixx was just trying to be funny, but...kinda fell flat, what with all the highlighting and stuff, makes it seem like a real shot. Unless you were talking about some of my "double talk?"
Farside, all that, and you still can't ask me a specific question. It's not even hard. Just...point at someone, and ask me how I feel about them and why, and I'll tell you.
Sweet, so fuzzy is distancing themselves from us, and I'm trying to buddy with them against my other head, because we're scum partners who don't have daytalk and are thus uncoordinated?
Post
Post #565 (isolation #28) » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:37 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
One wonders how farside can possibly have figured out so many scum. Is farside the best player on mafia scum and nobody told us? I have yet to encounter anyone who is consistently capable of accurately reading people on day one.
That reminds me. Farside is scum too. (See, I can do it too!)
@TheFuzzylogic99 - The point was to point out that Farside is wasting a bunch of time saying things without any reasoning or basis for saying them, and it's just mucking up the thread. It's getting stale already. Also, in case it wasn't blatantly obvious, putting it in square brackets and coloring it made it a bit tongue in cheek. I assume you aren't familiar with online multiplayer games where various colors represent different quality levels for items and people can link said items in chat and they have square brackets to show that they are links? The translation for that was "Willing to buy Legendary Dayvig Kill..."
I suppose if I have to explain why it's meant to be funny ... it isn't.
In post 559, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:RR- huh..what was the point of that besides to draw needless attention on yourself? Not a town move imho.
I like Skybirds response of why he/she is not jumping on the Beer wagon . I think she/he is being genuine. I didn't read anything in the comments that made me think that they were trying to needless avoid voting beer
Not sure what could make of the cop directing. I can see town doing this but I can also see scum ( especially a Godfather role ) also asking for that. For me personally this is null
Agreed. I think Drixx was just trying to be funny, but...kinda fell flat, what with all the highlighting and stuff, makes it seem like a real shot. Unless you were talking about some of my "double talk?"
Farside, all that, and you still can't ask me a specific question. It's not even hard. Just...point at someone, and ask me how I feel about them and why, and I'll tell you.
-Cerb
How do you feel about cheet and why?
Upon skimming his ISO(I didn't actually read for context, I just read the actual posts) I like his content and play, and the open-mindedness in regards to what roles could actually be scum. Playstyle wise, 100% town, though his posts at points did make me glaze over and just not care what he had to say because of the inconsequential nature of them. That translate to a nulltown read on him, almost entirely based on playstyle. I don't think I see the same thing someone else did who said something about him looking for ways to not take a stance on things...I see a very similar thing to what I do, in the sense of being unwilling to make any hard pushes without anything beyond a gut read to back them up.
Now, you pointing me at him. That I really like too. Asking your scum read about your other scum read? I mean, if we're both your reads, it means we're both on the same team, and that's quality 2 for 1 information gaining there. You get to see what I said, and if it was negative and perhaps he came out to chat, you get to observe us interact. I like it. You've also earned yourself some nulltownness. Good job.
What changed between the list of scum you made earlier that didn't include fuzzy, and now, to make you suspicious of him at this point? And is Max still on your radar, or has he fallen off?
My apologies btw if I missed something vitally important from his ISO, I skimmed it 3 hours ago during my last break at work, and didn't feel like posting until I was at home and in front of a computer.
In post 571, Ra9in9 Bull wrote:SEIROUSLY LIKE COME ONE I COME HOME FROM POKER TO FIND OUT THIS THREAD IS STILL FUCKING OPEN?
Did you win money?
NO I GOT OUT ON A FLOP STIRGHT. GUY GOT FUCKIGN BOAT ON RIVER
AND I HAD 9-10-J-Q-K
ALSO GET IN HYDRA ASS
Flopped two pair for him? How did the betting go? Board paired on the river obviously, or else a set showed up. Depending on the betting you might have misplayed, rather than him sucking out.
They're the same person. One is a hydra containing the other and another person. I don't think it's all that fair to the hydra partner to just PL the slot. Perhaps Ika could take a break and his partner can continue on? It appears from some of what was said in those posts that there may be some issues that are more important to attend to than forum mafia, just at this moment.
Getting a little more deja vu as regards the early part of another game and I would really rather this didn't progress any further, personally.
Post
Post #713 (isolation #33) » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:15 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
Alrighty, here to talk.
vezok: Are you not willing to demonstrate that the characteristics you have expressed about your vote are true?
NicCage: The Sonic v Beer spat doesn't affect my read on either player. I'm inclined to think it's TvT(because I don't see a reason for either player as scum to be putting this much effort into getting *that* particular slot lynched in the absence of more information. In the absence of a flip on either party though I think the entire fight it mostly null in regards to how it affects my thoughts on their slots. I'm not familiar enough with the play of the parties involved to really see if they're being unexpectedly irrational or anything.
raging bull: that fight was stupid and it made me wish I weren't playing this game, but it also makes me concerned for whichever player it was who was clearly depressed. I hope things get better for you, and if you ever need any help, don't hesitate to let me know.
cooldog: Point taken. Can you suggest possible scum motivations for asking for ANY role that is townreading them to target them? If they had asked for certain roles, sure, that's...maybe a little scummy(though I disagree that attempting to control night actions of town players is scummy in and of itself. I view it as more akin to wishing to see optimal play from the town.)...but they didn't. I mean, I'm sure we can all dream up random weird roles that can interact with someone targeting them in interesting ways, or even just resort to the generic PGO, but why would SCUM want specifically those people who *trust* them and are townreading them to target them?
Tunnel: I'm not seeing what you're pointing out about similarities to WDPT, but the early game of that was forever ago, and I'm not gonna reread it. We can discuss whatever it is now, or in the alliance tonight if you'd like.
VOTE: grapes: That is staying there until my question is answered. Or drixx moves it to someone else I suppose. It should be *very* obvious why, in a game with two double voters, one of whom claimed to also be a miller, any wary individual would be very interested in determining how said double voter functions, and whether or not it's in a fashion which would balance a scum double voter for lylo. As of this moment, you are balanced as a scum double voter in lylo. And you claimed miller. So you get voted, until I have good reason to believe you are town, or my question is answered, or you demonstrate that you can indeed double vote the same individual.
farside: why is grapes town? I really like grapes early posts overall, actually, beyond the miller claim, which always makes me suspicious, and I can see town motivation for not wanting to reveal the way their role works, but I can't get over the fact that the role as shown so far is balanced for scum double voting.
And yes, before anybody says anything, I am very willing to sort someone as scum due to role, but barring a cop or doctor in a non multiball game, I will not sort someone as town due to role.
Mod: If a double voter has split votes and votes for two separate slots who are at L-1 in a single post, putting them both at lynch, do they both get lynched?
-Cerb
V: The votes happen in sequence. The first player hammered would be lynched. It's just the same as when any two players are at L-1 and you cast a vote for one and then cast a vote the another in the same post.
Last edited by Varsoon on Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post
Post #714 (isolation #34) » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:19 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
The sonic/bins thing is weirdly over the top. I'm trying really hard but can't really identify a reason why scum sonic would be doing this though. If they're both scum, and doing this as a weird distancing method, with one buddying and one distancing, I guess that could kinda make sense? Inconclusive. Only certain thing is it's a bit much.
Post
Post #715 (isolation #35) » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:28 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
Oh, why are we voting NicCage btw? Because of his empty ISO? There's a lack of posts, but the content there isn't fluff. He expresses opinions and thoughts, asks to be questioned to get himself involved in the game, and asks people about what their thoughts are on things. It's not a lurky iso, it's a low post count iso. I like removing lurkers from games early, because of the lack of information you have on them late game, but he's interacting and giving us information in all of his posts. Not terribly opposed to this lynch, but I think I need better reasons why to consider joining.
I mean, in terms of fluffiness, Marquis is *way* up there, I've rarely seen a less useful collection of drivel. Sure, there's some value in there, but it's mostly a lot of noise mucking up the thread. Not alignment indicative, I think marquis himself expresses it well in #519: reads like town who just doesn't give a damn about being townread. My point though is if we're voting based on useless posting or lack of useful posting, even Marquis is a better choice(and maybe somebody else is EVEN better than Marquis, I haven't ISO'd all the players to see who's fluffy HIPS'ing or active lurking, and who's pure lurking.)
Varsoon: Thank for the immediate response. That makes perfect sense.
Post
Post #721 (isolation #36) » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:08 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
In post 719, Marquis wrote:i think my "fluffy" posts are different from other fluffy posts
my posts are in the top percentage of good posts
anything otherwise clearly means you're skimming early iso and judging by post height which is fairly discriminatory
Valid point. I skimmed all of your iso, really, because I hate reading iso's until I absolutely have to. Not sure about the post height discrimination thing, clearly not really valid here.
Anyways, yeah, the posting style with it's lack of actual sentences or punctuation sorta makes me not want to read into your posts to actually find the value in them. That's a bit lazy. I'll work on overcoming that particular quirk of mine so I can give your posts a fair chance. Though you'll note I didn't think we should lynch you or anything, I just thought lynching you for lack of content would be better than lynching NicCage. I don't actually think either of you should be lynched right now though, it was more of an example. Wish you hadn't responded though, it would have been nice if someone else had come in to defend you so I could see why they preferred NIcCage over you.
Post
Post #725 (isolation #37) » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:41 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
In post 722, vezokpiraka wrote:@cerb: what the fuck do you want from me? I already toks you that my vote counts as two and I can't split it.
A post with votes on two different individuals(ideally ones with no votes on them so far) to see if your vote splits or ends up both consolidated on the second person you're voting for, and leaving said votes on those individuals until after a vote count is posted, at which point you move them back to wherever you want your vote to be. I actually believe you about not being able to split your vote, but the claim is confirmable in thread so I'd like to see it confirmed.
Grapes, I'd like to see you double unvote, then vote the same person with two separate votes in the same post., and leave it up in the same way until a vote count is made.
-Cerb
pedit: that's okay, you don't know me, and really everything I do gives people scum vibes.
In post 722, vezokpiraka wrote:@cerb: what the fuck do you want from me? I already toks you that my vote counts as two and I can't split it.
A post with votes on two different individuals(ideally ones with no votes on them so far) to see if your vote splits or ends up both consolidated on the second person you're voting for, and leaving said votes on those individuals until after a vote count is posted, at which point you move them back to wherever you want your vote to be. I actually believe you about not being able to split your vote, but the claim is confirmable in thread so I'd like to see it confirmed.
Grapes, I'd like to see you double unvote, then vote the same person with two separate votes in the same post., and leave it up in the same way until a vote count is made.
-Cerb
pedit: that's okay, you don't know me, and really everything I do gives people scum vibes.
In post 722, vezokpiraka wrote:@cerb: what the fuck do you want from me? I already toks you that my vote counts as two and I can't split it.
A post with votes on two different individuals(ideally ones with no votes on them so far) to see if your vote splits or ends up both consolidated on the second person you're voting for, and leaving said votes on those individuals until after a vote count is posted, at which point you move them back to wherever you want your vote to be. I actually believe you about not being able to split your vote, but the claim is confirmable in thread so I'd like to see it confirmed.
Grapes, I'd like to see you double unvote, then vote the same person with two separate votes in the same post., and leave it up in the same way until a vote count is made.
-Cerb
pedit: that's okay, you don't know me, and really everything I do gives people scum vibes.
What is the point of this?
Have you not been following along? We want to confirm that the double voters have claimed accurately, inasmuch as that is possible to do. It is now far more probable than not that Vezok's claim is honest and his vote simply counts twice which means he's a walking hated modifier who can apply himself to whomever he wants.
Grapes claims to be unable to vote for the same person, and we would like to see that demonstrated by him attempting to vote for the same person twice, after unvoting twice. If he is telling the truth and cannot vote for the same person twice, then his role is not an auto-win condition for scum in end game, while Vezok's could be.
All of this is information which will be useful later in combination with other things we learn.
Both of us recently lost a game that we probably should have won simply because everyone in the game (including the scum teams, I think) made one wrong assumption. The game ended up with everyone losing, IIRC. Neither of us wish to invest that sort of time for that sort of outcome again.
In post 723, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:Grapes
I am not pushing anyone bc i have no one to push ..i am stil trying to figure out my reads. i never push unless i am confident i pushing scum.
How is not paying attention scummy??? plus by that logic i am scummy every game since i tend not to pay total attention most of the time every game and in every game. Your push is kinda weak imho.
I mean yea you'd have a point if that was the only thing I was getting on you about. But it isn't.
"not paying attention," how you put it, isn't really what I was getting at. I'd hope that if you were town you'd try and find something from everyone in the playerlist that you can find to try and muster up some reads or something. You know that thing you do when you're town? You thinking ika was a separate person in the playerlist all together means that you really haven't been doing that. Otherwise you'd no. Admittedly this is a weak reason to think somebodies scum. But coupled with your play so far and a couple gripes I've had here and there, you know, the other things I brought up and asked you about in the same post that I'm assuming you decided to skim. I'm not feeling very comfortable with your slot.
@reasonably rational - Kindly stop worrying about my god damn role.
I'm a multivoter not a double voter. And I never claimed otherwise. I can't stack my votes.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: reasonably rational
VOTE: reasonably rational
After the next vote count I'm keeping the one that counts on your slot. And moving my other right back to fuzzy.
And there goes any cool fake-hammer reaction tests I could have maybe pulled off. Real pro-town play dudes.
Looking forward to when you stop making pushes trying to outguess the mod and actually read me or anyone based on play, think that'd be a bit more helpful.
It seems like the only person who stopped you from performing any "cool fake-hammer reaction tests" is yourself in expressing that one of your votes is fake. That was unnecessary and unasked for(and, btw, you didn't even actually do what I asked, it's arguable that you only unvoted one of your votes, but not the other, in which case the post here doesn't actually prove what it was supposed to prove). Don't blame me for your own incompetence.
Trying to outguess the mod? I keep hearing that sentiment here, and I think everyone that expresses it is a fucking idiot. I'm not trying to "outguess" the mod. I'm seeing what is possible within the framework created by the mod. People trying to "outguess" the mod are those that confirm alignment as a result of role, which I've already expressed is something I'm not going to do. I simply wish to know what exactly it is that we're working with. Say I have my vote sitting on somebody who you may have expresses suspicion about, but haven't yet voted, and that person gets pushed to L-2(with vezoks's vote already on them). I want to know whether or not I have to be afraid of you showing up and deciding to vote for and lynch said individual perhaps before I actually want the lynch to go through. Maybe I would prefer to just keep the votes as pressure, but not an actual lynch, to see where the conversation goes in regards to them and who speaks up in their defense and what they say.
Now, in regards to fuzzy: I don't like the specific questions he's asking. Since this is surely going to be brought up, let me address it now. Unlike my own request, he's asking for them to express hard limitations on their powers beyond simply the nature of that power. Basically, he wants to know when they won't be able to double/multi vote. I can see the benefit in what I'm asking, I'm not so sure on the benefit for town of what he's asking. Nullscum for piggybacking on my set of questions to take the opportunity to inquire about those powers in a fashion that would be a fairly decent red flag if this issue weren't already focused on my interest in the votes.
In regards to what Drixx said about grapes claiming to be unable to stack their votes: Grapes didn't do that. I don't know why Drixx said they did. It's arguable they IMPLIED being unable to stack their votes by their resistance to telling us more, but they absolutely did not claim to be unable to stack their votes at any point.
OH, also UNVOTE: . You also just displayed that you could have single voted initially(barring a compulsory "first vote of the day must be a double vote" clause or something), but chose not to. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you're not terrible enough as scum to have drawn unnecessary attention to yourself by making multiple votes when you didn't actually have a reason to.
Hmm. I'm left with a bit of a quandary now. grapes was absolutely at the top of my scum list, but has now fallen to nullscum at worst, really just a slot I'm suspicious of, but not suspicious enough to actually vote. I'll need to discuss this with Drixx and figure out how we're feeling about things.
You're pushing my slot because of role related things,
from what I saw, that's what guessing the setup is, is it not? And if it was just based on noncooperation and not strictly role, then you're a fucking hypocrite after you're whole "I'm not gonna post a reads list and hunt scum till after we get flips spiel", but that's an entirely different matter all together and probably not even within the same vein because they're really not the same thing, but you're still a fucking hypocrite regardless. You had your vote on me. You think I'm scum. Nowhere outside of anything not role related did anything I've posted as a player in this game come up in regards to your read on me. That's what I meant. You actually called my early posts town. That's why I think your push is bullshit. Same with fuzzy.
I was really close to pretty much just saying fuck you, kinda wish I did, but because I want to move past the setup spec nonsense I decided to play along. But you're more than content posting obnoxiously long walls, that once again, don't progress the game forward, to keep feeding this distraction and on top of that
slipping in some much unneeded insults
. So now I'm upset at myself that I actually tried to cooperate with you.
Doing a regular unvote removes all my votes I had previous.
Which should be apparent in the latest vote count to anyone with a brain stem
. I've proven whatever you wanted me to prove.
VOTE: fuzzy
Sure, I was inquiring about your slot because of setup spec related things. I was voting your slot because of non-cooperation though. Also, you're taking things out of context. I never said I wouldn't hunt scum until there are flips. I said I wasn't going to have strong opinions about anything until there was hard data to work off of. Farside was the one who interpreted what I said to mean that I wasn't going to scum hunt. What would be hypocritical of me would be to claim that I'm good enough at reading peoples play to determine your alignment based on play alone right now. That's why I'm not referencing your play itself as town or scum generally. I can attempt to ascribe town or scum motivations to the actions taken, and see if they make sense for a given alignment to take. If they make sense for alignment x, I feel like you're more likely to be that alignment, than the other. I'm not sure what about this has you so offended. I didn't insult just you, I insulted the entire idea that what I'm doing here is trying to outguess the mod. I guess I did call you incompetent, but that's because you were. If you were competent and had the intention of attempting some sort of fake hammer reaction test, as indicated in your post, you wouldn't have told everyone that one of your votes was fake. So, you must be incompetent. If you have another explanation beyond incompetence in maintaining your slots ability to perform a gambit you wished to perform, please share it with me. I like being wrong, because it means I can figure out why I was wrong, and thus be right more often in the future.
Yes, the effect of the unvote was obvious once the vote count happened, but the post by varsoon simply read "vote count?" while I was making my post. He then edited it while I was posting to have the actual count. At the time I made my point about you not doing what I asked you to do(which, btw, technically you *didn't*...even if it had the same result, you didn't actually perform the requested sequence of actions), I had no way of knowing what the count would be.
I'd also like to note that I said I thought you were scum(combination of miller claim+vote power+noncooperation when I didn't see any reason why you wouldn't cooperate), but now you're just nullscum at worst.
I don't actually think of my posts as walls. They don't require scrolling to read in their entirety.
Anyways, I've already expressed my limited thoughts on fuzzy and cage, tunnelwarriors I'm reserving judgment on until tonight in our alliance chat thingie, I need to look at skybird and ragingbull still to see what the issue is that people seem to have with them.
Grapes: why do you think I am scum? Please tell me what part of what I'm doing is driven by scum motivations in your opinion.
-Cerb
Last edited by Varsoon on Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
In post 747, MaxwellPuckett wrote:All of fuzzy's role questions just look like he's trying to do what Reasonably Rational is. While I don't have an opinion on Rational's insistence on the double and multi-voters giving in-thread proof of their roles, (I don't think they're lying, and both of them having the exact same voting abilities would be weird anyways, also it'd be risky to lie because one could accidentally slip up) I understand why they're doing it. They wanna know, whatever.
But almost immediately after that, fuzzy asks all these super in-depth questions which just sound strange, but their paranoia surrounding grapes seems kinda genuine. I'm not sure I could see that coming from scum.
VOTE: Bins
Tell me why you're scumreading NicCage.
If Marquis is scum, they're very cool-headed scum. But I'm leaning.. null, idk, maybe I need to watch them more, but I don't feel good about voting them.
It's fake.
Trust me, it's fake.
What is fake? the paranoia from fuzzy regarding grapes?
In post 753, grapes wrote:You're pushing my slot because of role related things, from what I saw, that's what guessing the setup is, is it not? And if it was just based on noncooperation and not strictly role, then you're a fucking hypocrite after you're whole "I'm not gonna post a reads list and hunt scum till after we get flips spiel", but that's an entirely different matter all together and probably not even within the same vein because they're really not the same thing, but you're still a fucking hypocrite regardless. You had your vote on me. You think I'm scum. Nowhere outside of anything not role related did anything I've posted as a player in this game come up in regards to your read on me. That's what I meant. You actually called my early posts town. That's why I think your push is bullshit. Same with fuzzy.
I was really close to pretty much just saying fuck you, kinda wish I did, but because I want to move past the setup spec nonsense I decided to play along. But you're more than content posting obnoxiously long walls, that once again, don't progress the game forward, to keep feeding this distraction and on top of that slipping in some much unneeded insults. So now I'm upset at myself that I actually tried to cooperate with you.
Doing a regular unvote removes all my votes I had previous. Which should be apparent in the latest vote count to anyone with a brain stem. I've proven whatever you wanted me to prove.
VOTE: fuzzy
Qfft!!
As I said lots of double talk and the things he finds scummy are not fucking scummy!
Open invitation to all to talk about fuzzy/cage/rr/tunnelwarriors/skybird/ragingbull
mainly for anyone in this game trying to lynch scum today.
Yea I know there's too many names but I think it's a decent pool to start from.
Fuzzy is scum, rr is scum. I don't have issues with nic he is null. Tunnel was town read, don't see scum there.
Raging bull....I really have no clue what to think.
Skybird I go back and forth with my read on her. Null right now.
Chet is still scum too.
Post
Post #810 (isolation #44) » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:16 pm
Postby Reasonably Rational »
You guys need to seriously re-assess. Cerberus and I (and others in this game) just came from a game where
everybody lost
because we all made a bad assumption that a certain ability wouldn't be given to scum because it would break the game. Literally nobody won that game after months of play because of lack of thinking through mechanics.
Nobody forced Grapes to make his claim ... he did that all on his own. Anyone who doesn't want to investigate and confirm is just being foolish. Up until now I haven't had a lot to make me think anyone is scummy, but now I need to look who is jumping onto voting us for silly anti-town reasons. If someone makes a claim, it's not anti-town to ask them to confirm what they claim; it is in fact the exact opposite. It's completely town. The town needs information as the uninformed majority.
I have some thoughts about Beer that I shared with Cerb. I'll let him ruminate a bit and decide if my logic makes enough sense to say something today or not.
Post
Post #816 (isolation #46) » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:38 pm
Postby Reasonably Rational »
In post 812, farside22 wrote:My ability so far is confirmed.
Does that make me town or scum in your view rational?
If roles could be used to determine alignment on day one, then this wouldn't be a very interesting game, would it? Your role, along with other information that will be revealed as the game progresses, and
most importantly
the things you do and say: those things combine to help us determine whether you are scum or town. You are already whatever you are whatever it is. It is to the rest of us to figure that out correctly.
In post 813, farside22 wrote:@rational:
Vezo confirmed his ability, mastin confirmed her lack of vote.
What does that tell you about their alignment and why?
See above. It's information. One cannot think logically on a null foundation. I mentioned above the basics, but you already knew that.
What was the point of these two sarcastic posts from you? Do you really expect us to believe that you don't understand the long term value in having a reliable understanding of how claimed roles work?
In post 815, Fluminator wrote:Bugger off Reasonable. I'm not lying about my real life so I could lurk. Is that really honestly what you thought I was doing?
I'm sorry ... where did we suggest you were lying about anything? The only comment was made by me in response to your first post, way back when I responded to a bunch of early quotes. It is pretty clearly just a snarky wink at you for saying something interesting about your role being cool, and then saying that you had less cell service than expected and would be unable to post much for the first week. There's nothing in #160 (the only post in which we even mentioned you) that questions your word in the least bit.
I mean ... you have 5 posts in nearly 1,000 ... and two of them just happened. I don't see how anyone could really have any real read on you; however, I do have to say that I got a significant bad vibe off the whole "I'm back but I'm in a bad mood and I don't want to play the game I signed up for so can someone else play for me?" post you made with #814 and then the strange stuff in #815. Farside appears to be the person who made post #544 ... so what's with the buddying there?
I would be very interested to see your thoughts on things, especially with what I see in just those two posts.
Post
Post #818 (isolation #47) » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:42 pm
Postby Reasonably Rational »
In post 817, Drixx wrote:EbWoP: #168 is the post that Flum appears to be pretending to be offended by, not the #160 I mistakenly put in in the prior post.
Love, still,
Drixx
Bleh. Hydra slipping is apparently really easy to do.
Love, obviously,
Drixx
Last edited by Varsoon on Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #819 (isolation #48) » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:46 pm
Postby Reasonably Rational »
Hrm... the [ post ] tag is linking to some other game for some reason. I'm not really sure why.
@Mod - Can you look into that for us?
Love, whilest confused,
Drixx
It's another case of fickle tags;
You only need to put the actual number of the post in your tag. If you write # in the tag, it will bring you to crazy places.
Fixed it for ya. <3
Last edited by Varsoon on Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #821 (isolation #49) » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:32 pm
Postby Reasonably Rational »
In post 820, Fluminator wrote:My main thought right now though is I can understand why there's a wagon on you right now.
Keep making posts with lines like this and I'm going to actually have a day one scum read.
3 of the votes on us are because we had the foresight to question the two people who have 2 votes. One of them has a vote which counts twice and the other, I think, can put a single vote on two different people. Grapes seems very reluctant to confirm whether or not he can put both votes on the same player.
If you go look at "We didn't playtest this", you'll understand why we are asking questions of people who are making claims. Neither Cerberus nor myself wish to make a poor assumption and end up with a "Nobody wins; everybody loses" outcome.
The most interesting thing today is what Vezok reported about Beer. Cerberus and I have talked about it quite a bit. I think I'll let him post our thoughts tomorrow. If you want to get into the game, you should read the Beer and Vezok ISOs.
Post
Post #822 (isolation #50) » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:08 pm
Postby Reasonably Rational »
Grapes actually did confirm that they couldn't put both votes on a single person, but they were initially resistant to it, and now seem to regret that they complied with it, to the point that they blamed us for forcing them to expose more of their role than they had to in order to satisfy the question...because putting a single vote on someone and making two posts about something are absolutely forcing them into doing something.
Anyways, I really need to get to sleep, but first, a quick question directed to everyone who left the Beer wagon: Why? I'll be checking in the morning to see what people said at the moment their vote was swapped, but I'd appreciate anyone who'd be kind enough to spare me a bit of searching.
Post
Post #840 (isolation #51) » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:01 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
In post 839, CooLDoG wrote:yeah I get that, but why did it not have any support for so long and now all of a sudden it takes off. Jesus christ that is a weird wagon build up. It seems like the second I left it it happened. I don't like it man, I don't like it at all.
It's at 3 votes, and iirc(mobile/working/not gonna check now) at least one, maybe two people had their votes parked there for awhile. Not sure that counts as taking off. Closer to taking off is my wagon,since it went from 0-5 pretty quickly I think, but 3 of those votes came from asking people with multiple votes questions, so I'm not sure it counts as taking off either.
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Post #855 (isolation #52) » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:44 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
@Flum - Are you trying to provoke me to respond harshly to you?
@Farside - What universe to you live in where getting
concrete information
to combine with reading people's posts and actions isn't scum hunting? Your posts were the most clumsy "traps" I've ever seen. You obviously had an agenda and any response was going to result with you going "A ha! So you ADMIT you're scum!" or something roughly equally as stupid as what you actually posted. You need to go read other people for awhile and stop this ridiculous tunnel. When you are setting up posts where any response will result in you confbiasing because you apparently don't understand how logic works ... it's time to take a break from the tunneling and re-assess.
Skybird is spot on and has figured out what we're doing. Amazingly, even Trench Warfare realizes what we're doing and why and isn't tunneling us for it. If
Titus
isn't so far up my ass she could floss for me ... you probably don't have any reason to be so focused and confbiasing like a fiend on us. Seriously ... it's getting old. I only have so much tolerance for terrible "logic" and absolute empty bullshit tunnels. I barely even said anything sarcastic the last time and you complained that I had seriously hurt your feelings. If you keep up with this nonsense, the end result is going to be me clinically dissecting your posts and linking to all the logical fallacies you are making, which I expect would be unpleasant for the both of us.
I am literally
begging
you to take a step back and re-assess before you push this any further. This looks feels and smells like the usual Town v. Town crap that mars so many day ones. If you are town, you seriously need to take a step back and stop this going any further.
Please take a look at the fight between Titus and Myself in "We Didn't Playtest This" or else the day one mislynch on me in Mini 1666. There are remarkable similarities between what you're doing right now and how I'm responding as in both of those cases.
Both Cerberus and I are careful and rational. We don't make assumptions easily or quickly. We talk about stuff pretty frequently (as everyone will see after the game in our hydra PT). We both have contempt for people who actually believe they are so good at this game they can actually make accurate reads on day one, especially
early
on day one. Neither of us feel there are enough known data points on day one to have strong scum reads on day one, unless someone makes a slip (as Beer supposedly did ... and why we would like Vezok to actually make the case concisely for us to actually be able to evaluate). Both of us do feel that people can be fairly obviously townie on day one ... but there's not a lot of upside to the town for us to make a list to help scum sort through all the players in the game to try and decide whom to kill.
As far as I can tell, your case against us is "They wouldn't make a reads list when I lazily demanded they do so ... and then when I made two posts with questions where any response could be called scummy, they actually responded anyway despite noticing my clumsy trap ... so they must be scum!"
So far your scum hunting skills, at least on day one, at least in this game, seem like they have been honed to near perfection ... if your intent is to lynch a town asset.
In post 855, Reasonably Rational wrote:We both have contempt for people who actually believe they are so good at this game they can actually make accurate reads on day one, especially
early
on day one.
I disagree with this pretty heavily. I can see why you think it, I just disagree.
I have had an occasional game where I figured out the scum team really quickly, but those are few and far between. I have yet to see anyone on this site who consistently figures out the scum team on day one. Someone will occasionally get one or two right in a reads list, but I have yet to bump into someone who can actually discern between whatever it is that Cerberus and I both do that gets us scum read and
actual
scum play. If you know of such a person, please let me know after the game. I'll want to look at their games and then pester them with questions to learn what they're doing.
I think both of us are well aware that trying to stay strictly rational, using timeless decision theory and trying to use Bayesian analysis and reasoning probably leave us open to missing some things.
You might recall that I also review games throughout, looking for the places where scum have to adjust their "narrative" for one reason or another. In fact, I think I pushed a case based upon that sort of read against the cop who cleared me in WDPT, yeah?
We're both still getting better. I would list day one as my weakest spot 10 times out of 10. Any advice you can offer would be appreciated.
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Post #860 (isolation #54) » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:07 am
Postby Reasonably Rational »
In post 857, farside22 wrote:I'll be happy to just link games that Drixx actually scum hunts in if that will make my point against the rational players, but I know some don't care about meta.
In post 858, farside22 wrote:You know I may just do it since the jerk part of the hydra is back.....I'll sleep on it since I can't vote.
I approach every game as its own thing. I'm always trying to improve. Feel free to show me where I was playing better earlier and have since changed away from something that was successful, please.
I'm sorry you feel like I'm a jerk, but I'm not going to pretend that your really bad logic is actually any good. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but that exchange was cringe worthy.
You asked how understanding their roles more fully would help in scum hunting. I explained that scum hunting isn't just one single thing, but a combination of things, and you came back and said that I had somehow scum claimed because one single play on Cerberus' part wasn't going to be enough for us to be sure someone was scum? Really?
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Post #869 (isolation #56) » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:21 pm
Postby Reasonably Rational »
Frankly my strongest town read right now is Farside. I think Farside is generally pretty smart, in my experience, and the posts involved in the push against us just don't make sense as scum posts, at all. I'm reasonably sure Vezok is town although I'm irritated at him for being a grump about us wanting to make sure the game knew how his role functioned, as much as possible {There are edge cases where he may not actually be what he has claimed, but we made him confirm his claim so if there is deviation later, he's caught}, and we're also irritated at him for not answering us about Beer.
After that, I'm not really confident enough in any other reads to say for certain that I think someone is town. I'd like to see some substance posts from a few people to help me read them a little better. Posts by Flum that don't have to do with us would be really helpful, for example.
We have about 10 wagons with one or two votes and nothing consolidated. We'll reach deadline and probably no lynch. Vanity wagons are good in the first three days of a new day, but after that they just prove that you aren't willing to listen.
Would you kindly do as we asked and paraphrase the conversation that began the day with You and Beer? What you initially described sounds an awful lot like someone who got links to multiple PTs in his role PM and accidentally posted in the wrong one a short comment. You don't seem to be willing to actually follow through with answering our questions (mostly the ones Cerberus raised) so that we can feel confident that it's really that and not, for example, someone familiar with the show who was just commenting about his character compared to yours. You haven't told us how Beer tried to explain it away in your alliance that you started in, either, which is hugely relevant to the point of deciding how likely it was really a slip.
Personally, I'm confused by the situation as it stands right now. This is a pretty binary situation, and I'll try and work through how it should have gone either way:
A: It was a legit scum slip. Presuming the scum have daytalk, and presuming they are active and actively helping Beer in this case, then I would expect to see evidence in the thread of scum trying to call what you claimed into question, and there are a few posts which may fall under that umbrella. I spent some time speculating about what I would do if I were on a scum team with a scum!Beer before I realized that it's not at all relevant since I'm not and I cannot accurately model how a posited team would have tried to respond to the situation. Obviously just immediately bussing would have been a bad idea for them, I think ... and I think it's
probably
safe to assume they would try and persuade you and/or the rest of us that it wasn't what you were saying.
You are basically helping the scum team if it was a legit slip, because you won't paraphrase the initial interaction nor how Beer tried to talk his way out of it, nor do you seem wiling to explain how it reads to you. Like ... do they seem coached or did one head stop talking and the other took over? What actually happened, and what do you think it indicates? We need to know to decide how to proceed
B: It was not a legit scum slip or it didn't even happen. Since you two began in an alliance, it seems possible to me that you are mod confirmed in alignment to one another and you staged the whole thing to see how the rest of us would respond. If this is the case, then it was actually a pretty brilliant play because you got a lot of responses from it. I've been kind of leaning more and more towards this line of thinking as time has passed and you seem reluctant to go into any further discussion about it nor do you seem all that intent on pushing Beer at all. In fact, you are currently voting us because we wanted to be sure your ability appears to work as you claimed. If you aren't familiar with what happened in "We didn't playtest this", just say so and Cerberus can summarize. Suffice it to say that neither He nor I are willing to just let claims lead to assumptions that could lead to...
Speaking of vanity wagons ... could you maybe put your vote where you actually think scum is? I think you've sufficiently made your point by complying with our request by parking your double vote on us ... but nobody else even seemed curious or at all thinking of the long term possible ramifications of your claim, so we would rather a few people scrutinize us so that the town has as much information as possible than keep silent to avoid attention.
It's time to shite or get off the pot Vezok. If you and Beer cooked up what you started the day with as a way to get reactions; freaking awesome job. Tell us what you gleaned from it. If what you partially described earlier actually happened for realsies, then paraphrase for us the initial exchange, whatever beer said to talk his way out of it, and describe anything that might indicate a team was coaching him or one head stepped in to try and "clean up" the mistake another head made. Right now, if I assume that Beer really did make the post you suggest ... it seems very likely that it was a legitimate scum slip where one of the heads just posted in the wrong PT ... and if that is so, we should lynch him. What confuses me is your seeming apathy about it.
Love, with a steaming mug of hot chocolate made with milk for extra rich creaminess,
Drixx
Post
Post #1005 (isolation #59) » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:05 pm
Postby Reasonably Rational »
Tunnel, Trench: I want to confirm this. Tonight, Trench and us will target Tunnel for an alliance. Tunnel will target both of us. We will be allied starting tomorrow. That is the plan we all have, and that is what's going to happen correct?
UNVOTE: grapes
I can't support that. I just don't think scum grapes(scrapes?) would have revealed that multiple voting power and immediately drawn attention to themselves, especially after someone else already exposed their own double voting. Seems really really sloppy and unscumlike.
Unfortunately, that leaves me with a problem. I'm not a fan of the radmann wagon, but I am a fan of some of the people on it. I don't like the idea of lynching someone who hasn't been on site even for 4 days. On the other hand, we have fuzzy, who has been declared lynchbait by some, but who capitalized on my line of questioning to ask some REALLY bad questions. For the moment I'm going to leave my vote free and floating. Drixx, don't revote grapes, no vanity wagons right now. I'll get together with Drixx sometime tomorrow and we'll figure out how we feel about those slots.
pedit: Oh yes, Beer. I need to reread(which might never happen, but I really need to) to figure out exactly how that wagon fell apart and why it did. Seems interesting that a clear easy mislynch(assuming beer is town) wasn't pushed harder by scum...which implies that he actually is scum, and was trolling the thread to make everyone doubt themselves, and it worked, etc, etc. Play seems town though once gorkington started talking.