STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Reasonably Rational]

Varsoon is literally the worst.

He's lucky it's ME who got this role (because I'm too stubborn to replace out), because the VAST majority of Scummers, if they had the role I do, would quickly lose interest in the game and replace out/flake.

...Basically, I'm a tree stump with all the sucky parts but none of the benefits. I'm voteless, will become conftown on D3, and yet, distinctly,

lack

the immunity to actions (in particular, y'know, NIGHTKILLS) that come with 'stumps. Yeah. I'm a bit bitter.

(My vote is showing up in the list of votes though, so this is something which you'll probably want to test at some point. Needless to say, though, I'm telling the truth; I have no vote right now no matter what the votecount says.)

"He’s a frozen treat with a whole new taste, because he came to this planet from outer space. A refugee of an interstellar war, but now he’s at your local grocery store. Cookie Cat! He’s a pet for your tummy! Cookie Cat! He’s super duper yummy! Cookie Cat! He left his family behind! Cookie Caaat!

Now available at Gurvhen's off route 109.

-Steven,

Gem Glow

VOTECOUNT 1.01

Beer (3):

vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X

Mastin2 (1):

Ricastle

Not Voting (17):

Cheetory6, MaxwellPuckett, Ra9in9 Bull, TunnelWarriors, Trench Warfare, CooLDoG, Beer, radmann9, NicCage, Reasonably Rational, Fluminator, Thefuzzylogic99, Skybird, Bins, Marquis, Mastin2

With 20 Alive, it takes 11 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2015-07-13 06:50:00)

Oh, I see.

Mastin is just plain voteless

, not an actual stump.

He claimed scum pretty much. It's pretty hard to paraphrase.

Also as you can see

I'm a double voter

.

Interesting. Double voter and no voter. Inclined to tentatively mark both as null town.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I might be tipsy, but Sonic looks really evil.

Reasonably Rational looks like a puke stain on the wall.

Grapes looks like that guy at a party who's trying too hard to impress and is actually really sleazy and someone who you should probably not befriend because they will do bad things to you after drugging you or something.

Hm.

VOTE: Sonic

Puke stain on the wall? Please, enlighten me.

Beer has the least annoying gimmick I've seen in a while. I think they're also pretty town so far in.

The biggest ping I've felt was reasonably rationals entrance. Just slightly awkward. Not sure if it was the overfocusing on claims part or just the outside looking in vibe I got from it but I'm interested in seeing more of them.

And more than half the playerlist for that matter.

What would you like to see more of from me? And yes, it was absolutely an outside looking in vibe, that's kinda how I approach things(I like that description). I try to take in an image of the game and how things interact and relate to each other.

Cerb, can you ask Drixx if we can ally? I think it would help the four of us read each other better tonight and get grips on things.

I have asked, I don't mind, contingent upon your slot not being super scummy today. It would be helpful to have insight into each others thoughts so we can avoid certain personality and play style frictions.

Or Beer/vezok could be scum, with a scum-flavoured role, with a fakeclaim to prevent massclaim bullshit on D1.

Unlikely. D1 bus, in the first few pages of the thread? And double voting scum? Yeah, I don't think so.

Entry post in the scum PT as yeah, I am scum, seems pretty dumb, but plausible I guess, as is the PT mix up. Willing to vote Beers slot, pending Drixxs approval, but unwilling to rush into a lynch.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ah. Yes, sure, one could be scum. Maxwell is making a silly assumption and disregarding perfectly reasonable possibilities.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

He claimed scum pretty much. It's pretty hard to paraphrase.

Also as you can see I'm a double voter.

I am not so sure. I think I know what is going on with Mastina, but revealing what is a lie and what is true would be anti-town.

I will keep reading to see if that is right.


~Titus

Titus completely walled herself in with the whole D3 thing. I don't see why anyone would want to even really do much more than keep notes on her before then. There's already much more interesting things (Like apparently a Bud Light spilling itself into the wrong PT). But ... it's a Bud Light ... I mean what are we

really

expecting here?

Cerb, can you ask Drixx if we can ally? I think it would help the four of us read each other better tonight and get grips on things.

He asked, we concurred. Unless you derail into Scumville today we plan to attempt to do the thing. Great idea.

We should all totally fuse. Each and every night. Day 1 we should fuse with people we don't understand to try and further the game and limit ego fights.

~Titus

This. So much this. If there's someone you just can't read or who can't read you, can you please go get a room tonight and figure it out? That should totally have been like a gigantic font PSA or something.

No it's chill. We're totally roleplaying. But only in our private char. You know. For authenticity. /sarcasm.

WTF are you talking about roleplaying? I know Lars is a bit assholish in the show, but he's scum here.

Don't do this to me when I'm drinking my coffee. I had to clean up a mess.

My role is pretty cool.
I have less cell service than I though so I doubt I'll be able to post much for the first week. I'll do my best.

Hi. I'm going to give an excuse to be a lurksack in my first post. Please don't notice.

I'd be scared to rely too much on flavour.
Would be super duper probable that Varsoon would counterbalance that stuffs.

And cool cool, is it like a casual random pawnshop sorta place or like an EBgames?

I think Varsoon could design and balance around the actual show, as long as he provided the scum team with proper fake claims so that any kind of mass claim doesn't screw them. Yeah?

Oh, I see. Mastin is just plain voteless, not an actual stump.

Treestump = conftown who can't be targeted by anything, at the small price of not counting as alive and thus not having a vote. Sometimes triggered at will.
Me = will become conftown upon a trigger (D3), like a treestump, and being voteless, like a treestump, but lacking the immunity of a treestump, able to be voted, lynched, targeted by night actions, and nightkilled.

Like I said. All the sucky parts without any of the real benefits.

But I can't emphasize enough how much my vote should be on Beer right now. (After all, they're too filled with wine to be town!)

This gives me deja vu, but in a good way since I totally won that game. I'm sorry again, by the way. We should probably let Mastin mastastasize into whatever she's becoming.


~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

EbWoP: "Titus: Mastin completely walled herself in..."

You would think I could get the Vocative right.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

did you mean that you want to form a neighbourhood for tomorrow?

Yes.

Is that avatar Alex Vause?

I wonder if she's actually dead, or there's totally some crazy twist planned there? I suppose that scene is ambiguous in case the actress won't come back or something?

[Reasonably Rational]

^ was Drixx.

[Reasonably Rational]

Grrr... So was that ^

And this.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside: I'm at work and I hate the early game, as well as disagreeing with the idea that people can (usually) have meaningful reasons for reads at this stage of the game(which is why I hate this stage of the game), so...perhaps Drixx can give you a reads list, but I won't right this second(beyond maintaining that vezok and mastin feel town, but thats alignment cofirmation by role, which I think is stupid so it should be disregarded). Drixx and I actually haven't really discussed our thoughts on any slots in depth so far.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Radman

Radman's scum read consists of many small things that indicate he may be scum, I'll be going over them and explaining them here.
To start with in his post 111 he says he's willing to ally with anyone, really town should be focusing on allying with town. This is a weak tell I'll admit, however I wanted it mentioned.
Later in that same post he throws shade onto Mastin, yet does not actually vote. Taking a look at his post count reveals he's a newer player and throwing shade onto people yet not committing to a push is something newish scum seem to love doing.
There's the same none commitment to his reads in 161, they are full of "I'm not sure" or "something feels weird". Yet he doesn't actually full out say "x is town/scum". Why would this be scummy play?
Well not committing to a read makes it easier for you to change your reads along with the crowd, it is often accompanied with opportunistic voting.
167 is him continuing to throw shade over mastin yet he still doesn't vote.

Interestingly enough he's completely forgotten his mastin read now. He's changed to asking questions which look useful but actually hold no worth.

Then there's his most recent post:
"Or maybe I'm scum like you said"
That one line is so off it's unbelievable. He's also just OMGUS'ing coolDog without actually committing to a push on him. Showing he's very aware of what people think of him and his continuation of him having fluid reads.

Pr-edit:
Why the fuck do you not vote any of your scum reads yet you vote the one you thought could be town?

You know ... I don't feel particularly well today. And your post just for whatever reason tickled the wrong part of me.

So here's how this is going to go.

You are going to give a reads list and tell us who is town and who is scum. Right now.

For every read you get wrong, you can pay me $5 real money after the game. You seem convinced that the rest of us should be voting for people and should have comprehensive reads.

Put your money where your mouth is, or drop it.

@Farside - As a rule I don't submit to people's "demands". You demanded something of me, so I'm going to just not do it. I'm not in this game to play it for you, nor am I in the habit of throwing up a list of "reads" early on day one when there are still people who don't even have significant content in the game. Demanding a reads list at this point is basically translated as "Hi, I want some reason to push a case on your slot, so give me a reads list so I can cherry pick things from it to make you look bad". Nobody playing the game right now could possibly have a reads list with any accuracy, and anyone who will give me a reads list that isn't almost completely "null" right now, and agree to pay me $5 for every wrong read at the end is far too full of themselves and could do with the ego puncturing.

@Everyone - What on earth led to the site meta of people who don't give reads themselves demanding other people produce a fully annotated list of reads, on the spot, or else ... it's nearly the worst thing about this site. It's a horrible practice, and people doing it should be lynched off on principle. If you want to know what a particular person thinks about something, as a specific question. Randomly picking one person and demanding they produce something that cannot possibly be accurate and which nobody else has done (including, in every case I can recall, the demander), and which if the person is dumb enough to actually submit to said demand, they are then enslaved to meeting all other demands afterward ... it's irrational bordering on insane. It's also asinine and a super lazy and sleezy tactic.

@Radmann - Start actually playing the game and stop with the "I'm going to suggest people are scum one at a time to look like I'm doing something" strategy, or I'm going to push to lynch you just on principle.

{Rant Mode Off}

~Love, Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Blah. I was irritated at Farside's demand of a reads list. I don't know why I quoted you.

And yes, despite myself I did reveal a read ... but I mean anyone who is paying attention to the game probably has the heebie jeebies about radmann at the moment, yeah?

[Reasonably Rational]

^ was Drixx

So is this.

~Lots of Love to all, Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Radman

Radman's scum read consists of many small things that indicate he may be scum, I'll be going over them and explaining them here.
To start with in his post 111 he says he's willing to ally with anyone, really town should be focusing on allying with town. This is a weak tell I'll admit, however I wanted it mentioned.
Later in that same post he throws shade onto Mastin, yet does not actually vote. Taking a look at his post count reveals he's a newer player and throwing shade onto people yet not committing to a push is something newish scum seem to love doing.
There's the same none commitment to his reads in 161, they are full of "I'm not sure" or "something feels weird". Yet he doesn't actually full out say "x is town/scum". Why would this be scummy play?
Well not committing to a read makes it easier for you to change your reads along with the crowd, it is often accompanied with opportunistic voting.
167 is him continuing to throw shade over mastin yet he still doesn't vote.

Interestingly enough he's completely forgotten his mastin read now. He's changed to asking questions which look useful but actually hold no worth.

Then there's his most recent post:
"Or maybe I'm scum like you said"
That one line is so off it's unbelievable. He's also just OMGUS'ing coolDog without actually committing to a push on him. Showing he's very aware of what people think of him and his continuation of him having fluid reads.

Pr-edit:
Why the fuck do you not vote any of your scum reads yet you vote the one you thought could be town?

You know ... I don't feel particularly well today. And your post just for whatever reason tickled the wrong part of me.

So here's how this is going to go.

You are going to give a reads list and tell us who is town and who is scum. Right now.

For every read you get wrong, you can pay me $5 real money after the game. You seem convinced that the rest of us should be voting for people and should have comprehensive reads.

Put your money where your mouth is, or drop it.

@Farside - As a rule I don't submit to people's "demands". You demanded something of me, so I'm going to just not do it. I'm not in this game to play it for you, nor am I in the habit of throwing up a list of "reads" early on day one when there are still people who don't even have significant content in the game. Demanding a reads list at this point is basically translated as "Hi, I want some reason to push a case on your slot, so give me a reads list so I can cherry pick things from it to make you look bad". Nobody playing the game right now could possibly have a reads list with any accuracy, and anyone who will give me a reads list that isn't almost completely "null" right now, and agree to pay me $5 for every wrong read at the end is far too full of themselves and could do with the ego puncturing.

@Everyone - What on earth led to the site meta of people who don't give reads themselves demanding other people produce a fully annotated list of reads, on the spot, or else ... it's nearly the worst thing about this site. It's a horrible practice, and people doing it should be lynched off on principle. If you want to know what a particular person thinks about something, as a specific question. Randomly picking one person and demanding they produce something that cannot possibly be accurate and which nobody else has done (including, in every case I can recall, the demander), and which if the person is dumb enough to actually submit to said demand, they are then enslaved to meeting all other demands afterward ... it's irrational bordering on insane. It's also asinine and a super lazy and sleezy tactic.

@Radmann - Start actually playing the game and stop with the "I'm going to suggest people are scum one at a time to look like I'm doing something" strategy, or I'm going to push to lynch you just on principle.

{Rant Mode Off}

~Love, Drixx

Yeah! What he said!

-Cerb

P.S. Tunnel warriors, I'm not sure I like your role reveal. The multiple alliances thing was fine, and all you had to say. The bit about protecting everyone? Yeah, that makes you a target, and the role is far too useful mid-late game for you to paint a target on yourself on day 1, and I'm sure you realize that. Oh, and then you say bad things happen to scum when you die? Nice way to disincentivize town from lynching you, while simultaneously explaining away your continued survival. Not sure I buy any of the shit you're selling.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Look. I'm Saddie and he's Lars. It makes sense to start in an alliance with him.

He's fucking scum. He's gloating in our PT that he claimed scum and people don't believe it.

This isn't the sort of thing scum do.

Gambits like Vezok would be making here if scum are also something scum wouldn't do. So, TvT misunderstanding going on here?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Other than the thing in the Vezok/Beer PT, I feel pretty good about them as town. It doesn't...make sense to do any of what vezok said they did as scum, where's the value? I'm no longer willing to vote Beer.

Grapes: We are Reasonably Rational, not RR. I eagerly await the continued evolution of your read on this slot, and the rest of the slots.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Vezok: Can your double vote be split up?
Grapes: Can your double vote be consolidated?
Either way, please demonstrate what your response is true with an attempt to perform the vote change I've asked if you are capable of performing.

For science.
-Cerb

Ugh. First slip. So sorry.

Anyways, please don't cause a sudden lynch with this, and I only ask that you keep the votes wherever you attempt to put them for a vote count, just to confirm your attempt did or did not work. Also, Drixx is feeling a bit under the weather, so it will mostly just be me playing until he's feeling better.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Somehow, two of my posts in a row were eaten. ugh.

Umm, so i searched for "mason" and did not find any mention of it other than Cooldogs post. Did I miss something?

Tunnel: I have no objection to the proposed large alliance. I'm not sure what additional input you want regarding your roles utility. Any further planning requires knowledge of how many shots you have, any limitations your power might have, and basically just your full role, and I don't want that information.

I can understand the people who want to keep the alliances between mutual town reads, but I think it's much stronger to use as an opportunity to get additional interaction and conversation in with a null read or someone whose playstyle/thought process you simply don't understand well enough to determine if what they're doing in thread makes sense for town them or scum them.

Sure you're (marginally, and then only if your ability to identify town is incredibly accurate) more likely to involve scum in such an alliance, and perhaps enhance them somehow...but I certainly imagine whatever mechanical advantage scum get out of being in an alliance could be gained by allying internally. Perhaps I'm wrong, and they *can't* ally each other, or perhaps they don't get any benefit from it, or perhaps the benefit they get is stronger if allied with town. Sure. All possibilities. I just don't think it's we are all so good at identifying town, that we'll be able to prevent that from happening if we *only* ally with our town reads, and doing so puts us in a position where we likely wind up with people who don't end up allying, and thus we waste opportunities to gain more information about different slots, and utilize whatever benefits come from the alliances for town.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

tunnelwarriors and reasonably rational are town btw

they are scumhunting

No rational is scum here.

Because reasons?

[Reasonably Rational]

Sorry to burst your bubble Farside, but I universally despise people being lazy or scummy (or both!) and demanding reads lists from people on day one. I have given that response before and I will give it again. I give reads when I have something to say that is worth the time I'm asking of everyone. Town-ness isn't something people gain on day one, outside of mod confirmed town situations like masons and the like. You earn a town read from me by playing to the town's win condition. Scum reads come when I see scum screw up their narratives, and I am good enough at spotting it that I even spotted it in SMITE when I assumed someone was town, and I still caught a couple of legit scum slips on his part. If you are scum ... pique my curiosity at your peril.

So stop with the bullshit about me, because Cerberus was quite right that I don't feel well and I'm apt to be grumpy until the doctors resolve the underlying problems that are causing it. I'll do my best to keep from picking any fights, but poke me at your peril. Cerberus and myself are notoriously difficult to read early on, but you're just embarrassing yourself with the tripe you're posting right now. Time to move on and tunnel elsewhere.

Love, Always,
~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Why rational is scum.
1. Focus onset up.
2. Responds to stuff only directed to them
3. No scum hunting
4. Passive agressive bs when pushed to make reads.
5. Saying post eater reads fake
6. Pushed one scum read for weak reasons.

See spoiler for all quotes involved

Spoiler:

Varsoon is literally the worst.

He's lucky it's ME who got this role (because I'm too stubborn to replace out), because the VAST majority of Scummers, if they had the role I do, would quickly lose interest in the game and replace out/flake.

...Basically, I'm a tree stump with all the sucky parts but none of the benefits. I'm voteless, will become conftown on D3, and yet, distinctly,

lack

the immunity to actions (in particular, y'know, NIGHTKILLS) that come with 'stumps. Yeah. I'm a bit bitter.

(My vote is showing up in the list of votes though, so this is something which you'll probably want to test at some point. Needless to say, though, I'm telling the truth; I have no vote right now no matter what the votecount says.)

"He’s a frozen treat with a whole new taste, because he came to this planet from outer space. A refugee of an interstellar war, but now he’s at your local grocery store. Cookie Cat! He’s a pet for your tummy! Cookie Cat! He’s super duper yummy! Cookie Cat! He left his family behind! Cookie Caaat!

Now available at Gurvhen's off route 109.

-Steven,

Gem Glow

VOTECOUNT 1.01

Beer (3):

vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X

Mastin2 (1):

Ricastle

Not Voting (17):

Cheetory6, MaxwellPuckett, Ra9in9 Bull, TunnelWarriors, Trench Warfare, CooLDoG, Beer, radmann9, NicCage, Reasonably Rational, Fluminator, Thefuzzylogic99, Skybird, Bins, Marquis, Mastin2

With 20 Alive, it takes 11 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2015-07-13 06:50:00)

Oh, I see.

Mastin is just plain voteless

, not an actual stump.

He claimed scum pretty much. It's pretty hard to paraphrase.

Also as you can see

I'm a double voter

.

Interesting. Double voter and no voter. Inclined to tentatively mark both as null town.

-Cerb

I might be tipsy, but Sonic looks really evil.

Reasonably Rational looks like a puke stain on the wall.

Grapes looks like that guy at a party who's trying too hard to impress and is actually really sleazy and someone who you should probably not befriend because they will do bad things to you after drugging you or something.

Hm.

VOTE: Sonic

Puke stain on the wall? Please, enlighten me.

Beer has the least annoying gimmick I've seen in a while. I think they're also pretty town so far in.

The biggest ping I've felt was reasonably rationals entrance. Just slightly awkward. Not sure if it was the overfocusing on claims part or just the outside looking in vibe I got from it but I'm interested in seeing more of them.

And more than half the playerlist for that matter.

What would you like to see more of from me? And yes, it was absolutely an outside looking in vibe, that's kinda how I approach things(I like that description). I try to take in an image of the game and how things interact and relate to each other.

Cerb, can you ask Drixx if we can ally? I think it would help the four of us read each other better tonight and get grips on things.

I have asked, I don't mind, contingent upon your slot not being super scummy today. It would be helpful to have insight into each others thoughts so we can avoid certain personality and play style frictions.

Or Beer/vezok could be scum, with a scum-flavoured role, with a fakeclaim to prevent massclaim bullshit on D1.

Unlikely. D1 bus, in the first few pages of the thread? And double voting scum? Yeah, I don't think so.

Entry post in the scum PT as yeah, I am scum, seems pretty dumb, but plausible I guess, as is the PT mix up. Willing to vote Beers slot, pending Drixxs approval, but unwilling to rush into a lynch.

-Cerb

He claimed scum pretty much. It's pretty hard to paraphrase.

Also as you can see I'm a double voter.

I am not so sure. I think I know what is going on with Mastina, but revealing what is a lie and what is true would be anti-town.

I will keep reading to see if that is right.


~Titus[/quote]

Titus completely walled herself in with the whole D3 thing. I don't see why anyone would want to even really do much more than keep notes on her before then. There's already much more interesting things (Like apparently a Bud Light spilling itself into the wrong PT). But ... it's a Bud Light ... I mean what are we

really

expecting here?

Spoiler:

Cerb, can you ask Drixx if we can ally? I think it would help the four of us read each other better tonight and get grips on things.

He asked, we concurred. Unless you derail into Scumville today we plan to attempt to do the thing. Great idea.

Spoiler:

We should all totally fuse. Each and every night. Day 1 we should fuse with people we don't understand to try and further the game and limit ego fights.

~Titus

This. So much this. If there's someone you just can't read or who can't read you, can you please go get a room tonight and figure it out? That should totally have been like a gigantic font PSA or something.

Spoiler:

No it's chill. We're totally roleplaying. But only in our private char. You know. For authenticity. /sarcasm.

WTF are you talking about roleplaying? I know Lars is a bit assholish in the show, but he's scum here.

Don't do this to me when I'm drinking my coffee. I had to clean up a mess.

Spoiler:

My role is pretty cool.
I have less cell service than I though so I doubt I'll be able to post much for the first week. I'll do my best.

Hi. I'm going to give an excuse to be a lurksack in my first post. Please don't notice.

Spoiler:

I'd be scared to rely too much on flavour.
Would be super duper probable that Varsoon would counterbalance that stuffs.

And cool cool, is it like a casual random pawnshop sorta place or like an EBgames?

I think Varsoon could design and balance around the actual show, as long as he provided the scum team with proper fake claims so that any kind of mass claim doesn't screw them. Yeah?

Spoiler:

Oh, I see. Mastin is just plain voteless, not an actual stump.

Treestump = conftown who can't be targeted by anything, at the small price of not counting as alive and thus not having a vote. Sometimes triggered at will.
Me = will become conftown upon a trigger (D3), like a treestump, and being voteless, like a treestump, but lacking the immunity of a treestump, able to be voted, lynched, targeted by night actions, and nightkilled.

Like I said. All the sucky parts without any of the real benefits.

But I can't emphasize enough how much my vote should be on Beer right now. (After all, they're too filled with wine to be town!)

This gives me deja vu, but in a good way since I totally won that game. I'm sorry again, by the way. We should probably let Mastin mastastasize into whatever she's becoming.


~Drixx[/quote]

Spoiler:

Somehow, two of my posts in a row were eaten. ugh.

Umm, so i searched for "mason" and did not find any mention of it other than Cooldogs post. Did I miss something?

Tunnel: I have no objection to the proposed large alliance. I'm not sure what additional input you want regarding your roles utility. Any further planning requires knowledge of how many shots you have, any limitations your power might have, and basically just your full role, and I don't want that information.

I can understand the people who want to keep the alliances between mutual town reads, but I think it's much stronger to use as an opportunity to get additional interaction and conversation in with a null read or someone whose playstyle/thought process you simply don't understand well enough to determine if what they're doing in thread makes sense for town them or scum them.

Sure you're (marginally, and then only if your ability to identify town is incredibly accurate) more likely to involve scum in such an alliance, and perhaps enhance them somehow...but I certainly imagine whatever mechanical advantage scum get out of being in an alliance could be gained by allying internally. Perhaps I'm wrong, and they *can't* ally each other, or perhaps they don't get any benefit from it, or perhaps the benefit they get is stronger if allied with town. Sure. All possibilities. I just don't think it's we are all so good at identifying town, that we'll be able to prevent that from happening if we *only* ally with our town reads, and doing so puts us in a position where we likely wind up with people who don't end up allying, and thus we waste opportunities to gain more information about different slots, and utilize whatever benefits come from the alliances for town.

-Cerb

[/quote]

1) Irrelevant. You're welcome to check out some of my(Cerb's) other games, but I hate the early game and setup spec/theory talk is what I do during it, because everything said at this point is null and useless until flips give context.
2) See above. And all my previous play, etc. I've also done more than just respond to things directed at myself, I've commented on a number of other items, but yes, generally I only stir myself into posting at this stage when a post is made which mentions me, or when something I find interesting(such as the multiple parties with interesting vote related abilities, which are all verifiable in thread and right now) shows up.
3) I think you just haven't followed the logical paths I have, so I can forgive not seeing what the aims of what I'm doing here are.
4) See 1/2. Same idea. All this D1 bs is just that. Blind leading the blind, etc. I don't place any particular value in the reads I have right now(all of which, btw, are actually currently available in my ISO, if not in a single easily quotable post), so I'm not going to waste my time wracking my brain for why I feel x y or z are scum/town when there's little rational reasoning behind the feelings. Look at the hydra name, it's there for a reason.
5) WTF? Really? I express disgust at the fact that I had to type up fundamentally the same post three times, twice on MOBILE, before I finally gave up and actually used my work computer to make the post, and that is somehow a scum tell?
6)Not sure what you're talking about exactly? How can you say in the same post both that we're not giving reads, and that we're pushing our scum reads? Either you're picking up on our reads from what we're saying, and we've pushed something(which I actually don't even see, but maybe I missed a Drixx post?), OR we're not actually giving out any reads.

Also, you're welcome to ask me any question about anything and anyone and I'll absolutely answer it. I just don't see any reason to post about things if I don't have anything constructive to add to a discussion. I know my alignment. Generally speaking, I'm way more interested in what everybody else is saying about a subject and how they're interacting in regards to it, than I am in what my thoughts on the subject are.

-Cerb

P.S. I saw Drixx made a post too, but I typed all this up and you're all going to read it damn it!

[Reasonably Rational]

Hmm, that copy paste from notepad came out looking really weird.

-Cerb

I, uh, I'm not even gonna

risk

touching that.

[Reasonably Rational]

I, uh, I'm not even gonna

risk

touching that.

I should stop making cases on my phone, sorry mod for the mess.

@rational: what is the difference between asking for reads and asking you about players in the game?
Are you saying all you do is sit on your ass all game and throw words out with no scum hunting.
Finally: 1 negative comment about 1 player is not scum hunting. Saying so is bs.

@cooldog: stfu

I think there have been 3 comments about other individuals play that either Drixx or myself have made, once about tunnel, once about radmann, and once about yourself. I don't think any of those comments were scumhunting though. I'm just saying you're implying that we aren't offering up any reads while simultaneously saying we made a weak push on a scum read of ours. Perhaps you just spoke imprecisely, but it is impossible for you to know we made a weak push on a scum read of ours, unless we've also, whether subtly or overtly, made you aware of said scum read. Even the act itself, if you view it as an actual push, is an indication of our read on a slot.

The difference between asking for reads and asking me about players in the game?

Asking for a list of reads is lazy on your part, when those reads are scattered throughout my ISO. It just means even though you clearly read our ISO, you couldn't be bothered to do more than cherry pick those quotes that demonstrate the points you wanted demonstrated, while ignoring the other information about my slot that could be gleaned from them. Asking specific questions about specific players show ME and the rest of the town where your focus and thoughts are, and probably also shows information about how you feel about those subjects you're asking about. This is all useful information to town, and things scum want to obfuscate.

So, in short, asking for a list of reads(on day 1, ESPECIALLY) is both lazy, and bad scumhunting. Not alignment indicative, but it doesn't really help you much. Asking me for a specific thought on a specific subject? Not lazy, requires some thoughts about the game, forces me to either ignore the question or look at the interaction in question and give you my response. If I'm scum, it forces me to fabricate a much firmer stance on a subject than a nebulous day 1 reads list does. If I'm town, it makes my town voice ring louder and more noticeably.

CoolDoG: How do you feel about Tunnel attempting to control the actions of TWO other players?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, and if you read what I said, it's that I hate early game. It's messy and icky and people just run around generally being idiots who think they know a lot more than they do. Once there is more data to work off of, I like to dive in and analyze play and find inconsistencies in opinions expressed, vote patterns, and associations, using the verifiable facts from the game.

Try to keep your confbiasing from letting you actually read what I wrote, rather than what you wish I had said.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Grapes: you know that second vote you are letting me use. Can you vote the double talker. Also known as rational.
Thanks

WTB

[Dayvig Kill]

targeted at Farside, so we don't have to put up with his nonsense any more. Paying well.

Love, Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Grapes: you know that second vote you are letting me use. Can you vote the double talker. Also known as rational.
Thanks

WTB

[Dayvig Kill]

targeted at Farside, so we don't have to put up with his nonsense any more. Paying well.

Love, Drixx

*her* nonsense.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Wicked sorry about that Farside; I default to the masculine for reasons relating to my work.

Love, Always,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

RR- huh..what was the point of that besides to draw needless attention on yourself? Not a town move imho.

I like Skybirds response of why he/she is not jumping on the Beer wagon . I think she/he is being genuine. I didn't read anything in the comments that made me think that they were trying to needless avoid voting beer

Not sure what could make of the cop directing. I can see town doing this but I can also see scum ( especially a Godfather role ) also asking for that. For me personally this is null

Agreed. I think Drixx was just trying to be funny, but...kinda fell flat, what with all the highlighting and stuff, makes it seem like a real shot. Unless you were talking about some of my "double talk?"

Farside, all that, and you still can't ask me a specific question. It's not even hard. Just...point at someone, and ask me how I feel about them and why, and I'll tell you.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

That reminds me.
Fuzzy is a scum read too.

Sweet, so fuzzy is distancing themselves from us, and I'm trying to buddy with them against my other head, because we're scum partners who don't have daytalk and are thus uncoordinated?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

One wonders how farside can possibly have figured out so many scum. Is farside the best player on mafia scum and nobody told us? I have yet to encounter anyone who is consistently capable of accurately reading people on day one.

That reminds me. Farside is scum too. (See, I can do it too!)

@TheFuzzylogic99 - The point was to point out that Farside is wasting a bunch of time saying things without any reasoning or basis for saying them, and it's just mucking up the thread. It's getting stale already. Also, in case it wasn't blatantly obvious, putting it in square brackets and coloring it made it a bit tongue in cheek. I assume you aren't familiar with online multiplayer games where various colors represent different quality levels for items and people can link said items in chat and they have square brackets to show that they are links? The translation for that was "Willing to buy Legendary Dayvig Kill..."

I suppose if I have to explain why it's meant to be funny ... it isn't.

Love, anyway,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

RR- huh..what was the point of that besides to draw needless attention on yourself? Not a town move imho.

I like Skybirds response of why he/she is not jumping on the Beer wagon . I think she/he is being genuine. I didn't read anything in the comments that made me think that they were trying to needless avoid voting beer

Not sure what could make of the cop directing. I can see town doing this but I can also see scum ( especially a Godfather role ) also asking for that. For me personally this is null

Agreed. I think Drixx was just trying to be funny, but...kinda fell flat, what with all the highlighting and stuff, makes it seem like a real shot. Unless you were talking about some of my "double talk?"

Farside, all that, and you still can't ask me a specific question. It's not even hard. Just...point at someone, and ask me how I feel about them and why, and I'll tell you.

-Cerb

How do you feel about cheet and why?

Upon skimming his ISO(I didn't actually read for context, I just read the actual posts) I like his content and play, and the open-mindedness in regards to what roles could actually be scum. Playstyle wise, 100% town, though his posts at points did make me glaze over and just not care what he had to say because of the inconsequential nature of them. That translate to a nulltown read on him, almost entirely based on playstyle. I don't think I see the same thing someone else did who said something about him looking for ways to not take a stance on things...I see a very similar thing to what I do, in the sense of being unwilling to make any hard pushes without anything beyond a gut read to back them up.

Now, you pointing me at him. That I really like too. Asking your scum read about your other scum read? I mean, if we're both your reads, it means we're both on the same team, and that's quality 2 for 1 information gaining there. You get to see what I said, and if it was negative and perhaps he came out to chat, you get to observe us interact. I like it. You've also earned yourself some nulltownness. Good job.

What changed between the list of scum you made earlier that didn't include fuzzy, and now, to make you suspicious of him at this point? And is Max still on your radar, or has he fallen off?

My apologies btw if I missed something vitally important from his ISO, I skimmed it 3 hours ago during my last break at work, and didn't feel like posting until I was at home and in front of a computer.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

SEIROUSLY LIKE COME ONE I COME HOME FROM POKER TO FIND OUT THIS THREAD IS STILL FUCKING OPEN?

Did you win money?

NO I GOT OUT ON A FLOP STIRGHT. GUY GOT FUCKIGN BOAT ON RIVER

AND I HAD 9-10-J-Q-K

ALSO GET IN HYDRA ASS

Flopped two pair for him? How did the betting go? Board paired on the river obviously, or else a set showed up. Depending on the betting you might have misplayed, rather than him sucking out.

[Reasonably Rational]

There needs to be an emote for how I feel right now.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ <<< that's how I feel. ^^

[Reasonably Rational]

Both RB and Ika needs to take a huge step back and calm down.....

They're the same person. One is a hydra containing the other and another person. I don't think it's all that fair to the hydra partner to just PL the slot. Perhaps Ika could take a break and his partner can continue on? It appears from some of what was said in those posts that there may be some issues that are more important to attend to than forum mafia, just at this moment.

Getting a little more deja vu as regards the early part of another game and I would really rather this didn't progress any further, personally.

Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Alrighty, here to talk.

vezok: Are you not willing to demonstrate that the characteristics you have expressed about your vote are true?

NicCage: The Sonic v Beer spat doesn't affect my read on either player. I'm inclined to think it's TvT(because I don't see a reason for either player as scum to be putting this much effort into getting *that* particular slot lynched in the absence of more information. In the absence of a flip on either party though I think the entire fight it mostly null in regards to how it affects my thoughts on their slots. I'm not familiar enough with the play of the parties involved to really see if they're being unexpectedly irrational or anything.

raging bull: that fight was stupid and it made me wish I weren't playing this game, but it also makes me concerned for whichever player it was who was clearly depressed. I hope things get better for you, and if you ever need any help, don't hesitate to let me know.

cooldog: Point taken. Can you suggest possible scum motivations for asking for ANY role that is townreading them to target them? If they had asked for certain roles, sure, that's...maybe a little scummy(though I disagree that attempting to control night actions of town players is scummy in and of itself. I view it as more akin to wishing to see optimal play from the town.)...but they didn't. I mean, I'm sure we can all dream up random weird roles that can interact with someone targeting them in interesting ways, or even just resort to the generic PGO, but why would SCUM want specifically those people who *trust* them and are townreading them to target them?

Tunnel: I'm not seeing what you're pointing out about similarities to WDPT, but the early game of that was forever ago, and I'm not gonna reread it. We can discuss whatever it is now, or in the alliance tonight if you'd like.

VOTE: grapes: That is staying there until my question is answered. Or drixx moves it to someone else I suppose. It should be *very* obvious why, in a game with two double voters, one of whom claimed to also be a miller, any wary individual would be very interested in determining how said double voter functions, and whether or not it's in a fashion which would balance a scum double voter for lylo. As of this moment, you are balanced as a scum double voter in lylo. And you claimed miller. So you get voted, until I have good reason to believe you are town, or my question is answered, or you demonstrate that you can indeed double vote the same individual.

farside: why is grapes town? I really like grapes early posts overall, actually, beyond the miller claim, which always makes me suspicious, and I can see town motivation for not wanting to reveal the way their role works, but I can't get over the fact that the role as shown so far is balanced for scum double voting.

And yes, before anybody says anything, I am very willing to sort someone as scum due to role, but barring a cop or doctor in a non multiball game, I will not sort someone as town due to role.

Mod: If a double voter has split votes and votes for two separate slots who are at L-1 in a single post, putting them both at lynch, do they both get lynched?

-Cerb

V: The votes happen in sequence. The first player hammered would be lynched. It's just the same as when any two players are at L-1 and you cast a vote for one and then cast a vote the another in the same post.

[Reasonably Rational]

The sonic/bins thing is weirdly over the top. I'm trying really hard but can't really identify a reason why scum sonic would be doing this though. If they're both scum, and doing this as a weird distancing method, with one buddying and one distancing, I guess that could kinda make sense? Inconclusive. Only certain thing is it's a bit much.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, why are we voting NicCage btw? Because of his empty ISO? There's a lack of posts, but the content there isn't fluff. He expresses opinions and thoughts, asks to be questioned to get himself involved in the game, and asks people about what their thoughts are on things. It's not a lurky iso, it's a low post count iso. I like removing lurkers from games early, because of the lack of information you have on them late game, but he's interacting and giving us information in all of his posts. Not terribly opposed to this lynch, but I think I need better reasons why to consider joining.

I mean, in terms of fluffiness, Marquis is *way* up there, I've rarely seen a less useful collection of drivel. Sure, there's some value in there, but it's mostly a lot of noise mucking up the thread. Not alignment indicative, I think marquis himself expresses it well in #519: reads like town who just doesn't give a damn about being townread. My point though is if we're voting based on useless posting or lack of useful posting, even Marquis is a better choice(and maybe somebody else is EVEN better than Marquis, I haven't ISO'd all the players to see who's fluffy HIPS'ing or active lurking, and who's pure lurking.)

Varsoon: Thank for the immediate response. That makes perfect sense.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

i think my "fluffy" posts are different from other fluffy posts
my posts are in the top percentage of good posts
anything otherwise clearly means you're skimming early iso and judging by post height which is fairly discriminatory

Valid point. I skimmed all of your iso, really, because I hate reading iso's until I absolutely have to. Not sure about the post height discrimination thing, clearly not really valid here.

Anyways, yeah, the posting style with it's lack of actual sentences or punctuation sorta makes me not want to read into your posts to actually find the value in them. That's a bit lazy. I'll work on overcoming that particular quirk of mine so I can give your posts a fair chance. Though you'll note I didn't think we should lynch you or anything, I just thought lynching you for lack of content would be better than lynching NicCage. I don't actually think either of you should be lynched right now though, it was more of an example. Wish you hadn't responded though, it would have been nice if someone else had come in to defend you so I could see why they preferred NIcCage over you.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@cerb: what the fuck do you want from me? I already toks you that my vote counts as two and I can't split it.

A post with votes on two different individuals(ideally ones with no votes on them so far) to see if your vote splits or ends up both consolidated on the second person you're voting for, and leaving said votes on those individuals until after a vote count is posted, at which point you move them back to wherever you want your vote to be. I actually believe you about not being able to split your vote, but the claim is confirmable in thread so I'd like to see it confirmed.


Grapes, I'd like to see you double unvote, then vote the same person with two separate votes in the same post., and leave it up in the same way until a vote count is made.

-Cerb

pedit: that's okay, you don't know me, and really everything I do gives people scum vibes.

[Reasonably Rational]

@cerb: what the fuck do you want from me? I already toks you that my vote counts as two and I can't split it.

A post with votes on two different individuals(ideally ones with no votes on them so far) to see if your vote splits or ends up both consolidated on the second person you're voting for, and leaving said votes on those individuals until after a vote count is posted, at which point you move them back to wherever you want your vote to be. I actually believe you about not being able to split your vote, but the claim is confirmable in thread so I'd like to see it confirmed.


Grapes, I'd like to see you double unvote, then vote the same person with two separate votes in the same post., and leave it up in the same way until a vote count is made.

-Cerb

pedit: that's okay, you don't know me, and really everything I do gives people scum vibes.

What is the point of this?

I'm rolefishing, obviously. /s

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@cerb: what the fuck do you want from me? I already toks you that my vote counts as two and I can't split it.

A post with votes on two different individuals(ideally ones with no votes on them so far) to see if your vote splits or ends up both consolidated on the second person you're voting for, and leaving said votes on those individuals until after a vote count is posted, at which point you move them back to wherever you want your vote to be. I actually believe you about not being able to split your vote, but the claim is confirmable in thread so I'd like to see it confirmed.


Grapes, I'd like to see you double unvote, then vote the same person with two separate votes in the same post., and leave it up in the same way until a vote count is made.

-Cerb

pedit: that's okay, you don't know me, and really everything I do gives people scum vibes.

What is the point of this?

Have you not been following along? We want to confirm that the double voters have claimed accurately, inasmuch as that is possible to do. It is now far more probable than not that Vezok's claim is honest and his vote simply counts twice which means he's a walking hated modifier who can apply himself to whomever he wants.

Grapes claims to be unable to vote for the same person, and we would like to see that demonstrated by him attempting to vote for the same person twice, after unvoting twice. If he is telling the truth and cannot vote for the same person twice, then his role is not an auto-win condition for scum in end game, while Vezok's could be.

All of this is information which will be useful later in combination with other things we learn.

Both of us recently lost a game that we probably should have won simply because everyone in the game (including the scum teams, I think) made one wrong assumption. The game ended up with everyone losing, IIRC. Neither of us wish to invest that sort of time for that sort of outcome again.

Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Grapes
I am not pushing anyone bc i have no one to push ..i am stil trying to figure out my reads. i never push unless i am confident i pushing scum.

How is not paying attention scummy??? plus by that logic i am scummy every game since i tend not to pay total attention most of the time every game and in every game. Your push is kinda weak imho.

I mean yea you'd have a point if that was the only thing I was getting on you about. But it isn't.

"not paying attention," how you put it, isn't really what I was getting at. I'd hope that if you were town you'd try and find something from everyone in the playerlist that you can find to try and muster up some reads or something. You know that thing you do when you're town? You thinking ika was a separate person in the playerlist all together means that you really haven't been doing that. Otherwise you'd no. Admittedly this is a weak reason to think somebodies scum. But coupled with your play so far and a couple gripes I've had here and there, you know, the other things I brought up and asked you about in the same post that I'm assuming you decided to skim. I'm not feeling very comfortable with your slot.

@reasonably rational - Kindly stop worrying about my god damn role.

I'm a multivoter not a double voter. And I never claimed otherwise. I can't stack my votes.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: reasonably rational

VOTE: reasonably rational

After the next vote count I'm keeping the one that counts on your slot. And moving my other right back to fuzzy.

And there goes any cool fake-hammer reaction tests I could have maybe pulled off. Real pro-town play dudes.

Looking forward to when you stop making pushes trying to outguess the mod and actually read me or anyone based on play, think that'd be a bit more helpful.

It seems like the only person who stopped you from performing any "cool fake-hammer reaction tests" is yourself in expressing that one of your votes is fake. That was unnecessary and unasked for(and, btw, you didn't even actually do what I asked, it's arguable that you only unvoted one of your votes, but not the other, in which case the post here doesn't actually prove what it was supposed to prove). Don't blame me for your own incompetence.

Trying to outguess the mod? I keep hearing that sentiment here, and I think everyone that expresses it is a fucking idiot. I'm not trying to "outguess" the mod. I'm seeing what is possible within the framework created by the mod. People trying to "outguess" the mod are those that confirm alignment as a result of role, which I've already expressed is something I'm not going to do. I simply wish to know what exactly it is that we're working with. Say I have my vote sitting on somebody who you may have expresses suspicion about, but haven't yet voted, and that person gets pushed to L-2(with vezoks's vote already on them). I want to know whether or not I have to be afraid of you showing up and deciding to vote for and lynch said individual perhaps before I actually want the lynch to go through. Maybe I would prefer to just keep the votes as pressure, but not an actual lynch, to see where the conversation goes in regards to them and who speaks up in their defense and what they say.

Now, in regards to fuzzy: I don't like the specific questions he's asking. Since this is surely going to be brought up, let me address it now. Unlike my own request, he's asking for them to express hard limitations on their powers beyond simply the nature of that power. Basically, he wants to know when they won't be able to double/multi vote. I can see the benefit in what I'm asking, I'm not so sure on the benefit for town of what he's asking. Nullscum for piggybacking on my set of questions to take the opportunity to inquire about those powers in a fashion that would be a fairly decent red flag if this issue weren't already focused on my interest in the votes.

In regards to what Drixx said about grapes claiming to be unable to stack their votes: Grapes didn't do that. I don't know why Drixx said they did. It's arguable they IMPLIED being unable to stack their votes by their resistance to telling us more, but they absolutely did not claim to be unable to stack their votes at any point.

OH, also UNVOTE: . You also just displayed that you could have single voted initially(barring a compulsory "first vote of the day must be a double vote" clause or something), but chose not to. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you're not terrible enough as scum to have drawn unnecessary attention to yourself by making multiple votes when you didn't actually have a reason to.

Hmm. I'm left with a bit of a quandary now. grapes was absolutely at the top of my scum list, but has now fallen to nullscum at worst, really just a slot I'm suspicious of, but not suspicious enough to actually vote. I'll need to discuss this with Drixx and figure out how we're feeling about things.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You're pushing my slot because of role related things,

from what I saw, that's what guessing the setup is, is it not? And if it was just based on noncooperation and not strictly role, then you're a fucking hypocrite after you're whole "I'm not gonna post a reads list and hunt scum till after we get flips spiel", but that's an entirely different matter all together and probably not even within the same vein because they're really not the same thing, but you're still a fucking hypocrite regardless. You had your vote on me. You think I'm scum. Nowhere outside of anything not role related did anything I've posted as a player in this game come up in regards to your read on me. That's what I meant. You actually called my early posts town. That's why I think your push is bullshit. Same with fuzzy.

I was really close to pretty much just saying fuck you, kinda wish I did, but because I want to move past the setup spec nonsense I decided to play along. But you're more than content posting obnoxiously long walls, that once again, don't progress the game forward, to keep feeding this distraction and on top of that

slipping in some much unneeded insults

. So now I'm upset at myself that I actually tried to cooperate with you.

Doing a regular unvote removes all my votes I had previous.

Which should be apparent in the latest vote count to anyone with a brain stem

. I've proven whatever you wanted me to prove.

VOTE: fuzzy

Sure, I was inquiring about your slot because of setup spec related things. I was voting your slot because of non-cooperation though. Also, you're taking things out of context. I never said I wouldn't hunt scum until there are flips. I said I wasn't going to have strong opinions about anything until there was hard data to work off of. Farside was the one who interpreted what I said to mean that I wasn't going to scum hunt. What would be hypocritical of me would be to claim that I'm good enough at reading peoples play to determine your alignment based on play alone right now. That's why I'm not referencing your play itself as town or scum generally. I can attempt to ascribe town or scum motivations to the actions taken, and see if they make sense for a given alignment to take. If they make sense for alignment x, I feel like you're more likely to be that alignment, than the other. I'm not sure what about this has you so offended. I didn't insult just you, I insulted the entire idea that what I'm doing here is trying to outguess the mod. I guess I did call you incompetent, but that's because you were. If you were competent and had the intention of attempting some sort of fake hammer reaction test, as indicated in your post, you wouldn't have told everyone that one of your votes was fake. So, you must be incompetent. If you have another explanation beyond incompetence in maintaining your slots ability to perform a gambit you wished to perform, please share it with me. I like being wrong, because it means I can figure out why I was wrong, and thus be right more often in the future.

Yes, the effect of the unvote was obvious once the vote count happened, but the post by varsoon simply read "vote count?" while I was making my post. He then edited it while I was posting to have the actual count. At the time I made my point about you not doing what I asked you to do(which, btw, technically you *didn't*...even if it had the same result, you didn't actually perform the requested sequence of actions), I had no way of knowing what the count would be.

I'd also like to note that I said I thought you were scum(combination of miller claim+vote power+noncooperation when I didn't see any reason why you wouldn't cooperate), but now you're just nullscum at worst.

I don't actually think of my posts as walls. They don't require scrolling to read in their entirety.

Anyways, I've already expressed my limited thoughts on fuzzy and cage, tunnelwarriors I'm reserving judgment on until tonight in our alliance chat thingie, I need to look at skybird and ragingbull still to see what the issue is that people seem to have with them.

Grapes: why do you think I am scum? Please tell me what part of what I'm doing is driven by scum motivations in your opinion.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Varsoon please fix that quote, I have no idea what happened and it looks gross.

Vezok: Yes, I can't see any town motivation for any further inquiries into the way your votes work.

-Cerb

You had a bold tag hanging out in your quote tag, it made the whole thing freak out. Fix'd. <3

[Reasonably Rational]

All of fuzzy's role questions just look like he's trying to do what Reasonably Rational is. While I don't have an opinion on Rational's insistence on the double and multi-voters giving in-thread proof of their roles, (I don't think they're lying, and both of them having the exact same voting abilities would be weird anyways, also it'd be risky to lie because one could accidentally slip up) I understand why they're doing it. They wanna know, whatever.

But almost immediately after that, fuzzy asks all these super in-depth questions which just sound strange, but their paranoia surrounding grapes seems kinda genuine. I'm not sure I could see that coming from scum.

VOTE: Bins
Tell me why you're scumreading NicCage.

If Marquis is scum, they're very cool-headed scum. But I'm leaning.. null, idk, maybe I need to watch them more, but I don't feel good about voting them.

It's fake.
Trust me, it's fake.

What is fake? the paranoia from fuzzy regarding grapes?

Varsoon please fix that quote, I have no idea what happened and it looks gross.

Vezok: Yes, I can't see any town motivation for any further inquiries into the way your votes work.

-Cerb

Who asked you anything?

I have this urge to punch cerb through the screen whenever he posts.

If you post something, it means it's open to commentary from anyone else. I was just commenting.

You're pushing my slot because of role related things, from what I saw, that's what guessing the setup is, is it not? And if it was just based on noncooperation and not strictly role, then you're a fucking hypocrite after you're whole "I'm not gonna post a reads list and hunt scum till after we get flips spiel", but that's an entirely different matter all together and probably not even within the same vein because they're really not the same thing, but you're still a fucking hypocrite regardless. You had your vote on me. You think I'm scum. Nowhere outside of anything not role related did anything I've posted as a player in this game come up in regards to your read on me. That's what I meant. You actually called my early posts town. That's why I think your push is bullshit. Same with fuzzy.

I was really close to pretty much just saying fuck you, kinda wish I did, but because I want to move past the setup spec nonsense I decided to play along. But you're more than content posting obnoxiously long walls, that once again, don't progress the game forward, to keep feeding this distraction and on top of that slipping in some much unneeded insults. So now I'm upset at myself that I actually tried to cooperate with you.

Doing a regular unvote removes all my votes I had previous. Which should be apparent in the latest vote count to anyone with a brain stem. I've proven whatever you wanted me to prove.

VOTE: fuzzy

Qfft!!
As I said lots of double talk and the things he finds scummy are not fucking scummy!

Anyway...

Open invitation to all to talk about fuzzy/cage/rr/tunnelwarriors/skybird/ragingbull

mainly for anyone in this game trying to lynch scum today.

Yea I know there's too many names but I think it's a decent pool to start from.

Fuzzy is scum, rr is scum. I don't have issues with nic he is null. Tunnel was town read, don't see scum there.
Raging bull....I really have no clue what to think.
Skybird I go back and forth with my read on her. Null right now.
Chet is still scum too.

Varsoon please fix that quote, I have no idea what happened and it looks gross.

Vezok: Yes, I can't see any town motivation for any further inquiries into the way your votes work.

-Cerb

Who asked you anything?

I have this urge to punch cerb through the screen whenever he posts.

I want to punch them both.
But seriously vote fuzzy.

Do you both want to punch us because you just don't like or "get" our early game play/posting style, or is there some other reason?

I'm not opposed to either Fuzzy or Radmann, I don't know how Drixx feels. although he did express some qualms about Radmann earlier.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You guys need to seriously re-assess. Cerberus and I (and others in this game) just came from a game where

everybody lost

because we all made a bad assumption that a certain ability wouldn't be given to scum because it would break the game. Literally nobody won that game after months of play because of lack of thinking through mechanics.

Nobody forced Grapes to make his claim ... he did that all on his own. Anyone who doesn't want to investigate and confirm is just being foolish. Up until now I haven't had a lot to make me think anyone is scummy, but now I need to look who is jumping onto voting us for silly anti-town reasons. If someone makes a claim, it's not anti-town to ask them to confirm what they claim; it is in fact the exact opposite. It's completely town. The town needs information as the uninformed majority.

I have some thoughts about Beer that I shared with Cerb. I'll let him ruminate a bit and decide if my logic makes enough sense to say something today or not.

[Reasonably Rational]

Love, Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

My ability so far is confirmed.
Does that make me town or scum in your view rational?

If roles could be used to determine alignment on day one, then this wouldn't be a very interesting game, would it? Your role, along with other information that will be revealed as the game progresses, and

most importantly

the things you do and say: those things combine to help us determine whether you are scum or town. You are already whatever you are whatever it is. It is to the rest of us to figure that out correctly.

@rational:
Vezo confirmed his ability, mastin confirmed her lack of vote.
What does that tell you about their alignment and why?

See above. It's information. One cannot think logically on a null foundation. I mentioned above the basics, but you already knew that.

What was the point of these two sarcastic posts from you? Do you really expect us to believe that you don't understand the long term value in having a reliable understanding of how claimed roles work?

Bugger off Reasonable. I'm not lying about my real life so I could lurk. Is that really honestly what you thought I was doing?

I'm sorry ... where did we suggest you were lying about anything? The only comment was made by me in response to your first post, way back when I responded to a bunch of early quotes. It is pretty clearly just a snarky wink at you for saying something interesting about your role being cool, and then saying that you had less cell service than expected and would be unable to post much for the first week. There's nothing in #160 (the only post in which we even mentioned you) that questions your word in the least bit.

I mean ... you have 5 posts in nearly 1,000 ... and two of them just happened. I don't see how anyone could really have any real read on you; however, I do have to say that I got a significant bad vibe off the whole "I'm back but I'm in a bad mood and I don't want to play the game I signed up for so can someone else play for me?" post you made with #814 and then the strange stuff in #815. Farside appears to be the person who made post #544 ... so what's with the buddying there?

I would be very interested to see your thoughts on things, especially with what I see in just those two posts.

Love, always,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

EbWoP: #168 is the post that Flum appears to be pretending to be offended by, not the #160 I mistakenly put in in the prior post.

Love, still,
Drixx

Bleh. Hydra slipping is apparently really easy to do.

Love, obviously,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Hrm... the [ post ] tag is linking to some other game for some reason. I'm not really sure why.

@Mod - Can you look into that for us?

Love, whilest confused,
Drixx

It's another case of fickle tags;
You only need to put the actual number of the post in your tag. If you write # in the tag, it will bring you to crazy places.
Fixed it for ya. <3

[Reasonably Rational]

My main thought right now though is I can understand why there's a wagon on you right now.

Keep making posts with lines like this and I'm going to actually have a day one scum read.

3 of the votes on us are because we had the foresight to question the two people who have 2 votes. One of them has a vote which counts twice and the other, I think, can put a single vote on two different people. Grapes seems very reluctant to confirm whether or not he can put both votes on the same player.

If you go look at "We didn't playtest this", you'll understand why we are asking questions of people who are making claims. Neither Cerberus nor myself wish to make a poor assumption and end up with a "Nobody wins; everybody loses" outcome.

The most interesting thing today is what Vezok reported about Beer. Cerberus and I have talked about it quite a bit. I think I'll let him post our thoughts tomorrow. If you want to get into the game, you should read the Beer and Vezok ISOs.

Love, again,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Grapes actually did confirm that they couldn't put both votes on a single person, but they were initially resistant to it, and now seem to regret that they complied with it, to the point that they blamed us for forcing them to expose more of their role than they had to in order to satisfy the question...because putting a single vote on someone and making two posts about something are absolutely forcing them into doing something.

Anyways, I really need to get to sleep, but first, a quick question directed to everyone who left the Beer wagon: Why? I'll be checking in the morning to see what people said at the moment their vote was swapped, but I'd appreciate anyone who'd be kind enough to spare me a bit of searching.

Goodnight all,
Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

yeah I get that, but why did it not have any support for so long and now all of a sudden it takes off. Jesus christ that is a weird wagon build up. It seems like the second I left it it happened. I don't like it man, I don't like it at all.

It's at 3 votes, and iirc(mobile/working/not gonna check now) at least one, maybe two people had their votes parked there for awhile. Not sure that counts as taking off. Closer to taking off is my wagon,since it went from 0-5 pretty quickly I think, but 3 of those votes came from asking people with multiple votes questions, so I'm not sure it counts as taking off either.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Flum - Are you trying to provoke me to respond harshly to you?

@Farside - What universe to you live in where getting

concrete information

to combine with reading people's posts and actions isn't scum hunting? Your posts were the most clumsy "traps" I've ever seen. You obviously had an agenda and any response was going to result with you going "A ha! So you ADMIT you're scum!" or something roughly equally as stupid as what you actually posted. You need to go read other people for awhile and stop this ridiculous tunnel. When you are setting up posts where any response will result in you confbiasing because you apparently don't understand how logic works ... it's time to take a break from the tunneling and re-assess.

Skybird is spot on and has figured out what we're doing. Amazingly, even Trench Warfare realizes what we're doing and why and isn't tunneling us for it. If

Titus

isn't so far up my ass she could floss for me ... you probably don't have any reason to be so focused and confbiasing like a fiend on us. Seriously ... it's getting old. I only have so much tolerance for terrible "logic" and absolute empty bullshit tunnels. I barely even said anything sarcastic the last time and you complained that I had seriously hurt your feelings. If you keep up with this nonsense, the end result is going to be me clinically dissecting your posts and linking to all the logical fallacies you are making, which I expect would be unpleasant for the both of us.

I am literally

begging

you to take a step back and re-assess before you push this any further. This looks feels and smells like the usual Town v. Town crap that mars so many day ones. If you are town, you seriously need to take a step back and stop this going any further.

Please take a look at the fight between Titus and Myself in "We Didn't Playtest This" or else the day one mislynch on me in Mini 1666. There are remarkable similarities between what you're doing right now and how I'm responding as in both of those cases.

Both Cerberus and I are careful and rational. We don't make assumptions easily or quickly. We talk about stuff pretty frequently (as everyone will see after the game in our hydra PT). We both have contempt for people who actually believe they are so good at this game they can actually make accurate reads on day one, especially

early

on day one. Neither of us feel there are enough known data points on day one to have strong scum reads on day one, unless someone makes a slip (as Beer supposedly did ... and why we would like Vezok to actually make the case concisely for us to actually be able to evaluate). Both of us do feel that people can be fairly obviously townie on day one ... but there's not a lot of upside to the town for us to make a list to help scum sort through all the players in the game to try and decide whom to kill.

As far as I can tell, your case against us is "They wouldn't make a reads list when I lazily demanded they do so ... and then when I made two posts with questions where any response could be called scummy, they actually responded anyway despite noticing my clumsy trap ... so they must be scum!"

So far your scum hunting skills, at least on day one, at least in this game, seem like they have been honed to near perfection ... if your intent is to lynch a town asset.


Love, albeit annoyedly,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

We both have contempt for people who actually believe they are so good at this game they can actually make accurate reads on day one, especially

early

on day one.

I disagree with this pretty heavily. I can see why you think it, I just disagree.

I have had an occasional game where I figured out the scum team really quickly, but those are few and far between. I have yet to see anyone on this site who consistently figures out the scum team on day one. Someone will occasionally get one or two right in a reads list, but I have yet to bump into someone who can actually discern between whatever it is that Cerberus and I both do that gets us scum read and

actual

scum play. If you know of such a person, please let me know after the game. I'll want to look at their games and then pester them with questions to learn what they're doing.

I think both of us are well aware that trying to stay strictly rational, using timeless decision theory and trying to use Bayesian analysis and reasoning probably leave us open to missing some things.

You might recall that I also review games throughout, looking for the places where scum have to adjust their "narrative" for one reason or another. In fact, I think I pushed a case based upon that sort of read against the cop who cleared me in WDPT, yeah?

We're both still getting better. I would list day one as my weakest spot 10 times out of 10. Any advice you can offer would be appreciated.

Love, now and forever,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I'll be happy to just link games that Drixx actually scum hunts in if that will make my point against the rational players, but I know some don't care about meta.

You know I may just do it since the jerk part of the hydra is back.....I'll sleep on it since I can't vote.

I approach every game as its own thing. I'm always trying to improve. Feel free to show me where I was playing better earlier and have since changed away from something that was successful, please.

I'm sorry you feel like I'm a jerk, but I'm not going to pretend that your really bad logic is actually any good. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but that exchange was cringe worthy.

You asked how understanding their roles more fully would help in scum hunting. I explained that scum hunting isn't just one single thing, but a combination of things, and you came back and said that I had somehow scum claimed because one single play on Cerberus' part wasn't going to be enough for us to be sure someone was scum? Really?

[Reasonably Rational]

Love, even though you are mad at me,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Frankly my strongest town read right now is Farside. I think Farside is generally pretty smart, in my experience, and the posts involved in the push against us just don't make sense as scum posts, at all. I'm reasonably sure Vezok is town although I'm irritated at him for being a grump about us wanting to make sure the game knew how his role functioned, as much as possible {There are edge cases where he may not actually be what he has claimed, but we made him confirm his claim so if there is deviation later, he's caught}, and we're also irritated at him for not answering us about Beer.

After that, I'm not really confident enough in any other reads to say for certain that I think someone is town. I'd like to see some substance posts from a few people to help me read them a little better. Posts by Flum that don't have to do with us would be really helpful, for example.


~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh boo hoo; that's the most arbitrary made up bullshit I've ever read. You're all butthurt because maybe, at some point in the next few months, you

might

have been able to try and reaction test a

single

time ... and that only if the entire game had been stupid enough to just ignore your role ... and so somehow we've ruined your role's utility?

Go cry a river somewhere else.

In fact ... that tripe is so contrived that:

VOTE: grapes

His ISO leads like a really bad actor trying to play a role.

Love, and cookies,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't even know why you guys are posting.

We have about 10 wagons with one or two votes and nothing consolidated. We'll reach deadline and probably no lynch. Vanity wagons are good in the first three days of a new day, but after that they just prove that you aren't willing to listen.

Would you kindly do as we asked and paraphrase the conversation that began the day with You and Beer? What you initially described sounds an awful lot like someone who got links to multiple PTs in his role PM and accidentally posted in the wrong one a short comment. You don't seem to be willing to actually follow through with answering our questions (mostly the ones Cerberus raised) so that we can feel confident that it's really that and not, for example, someone familiar with the show who was just commenting about his character compared to yours. You haven't told us how Beer tried to explain it away in your alliance that you started in, either, which is hugely relevant to the point of deciding how likely it was really a slip.

Personally, I'm confused by the situation as it stands right now. This is a pretty binary situation, and I'll try and work through how it should have gone either way:

A: It was a legit scum slip. Presuming the scum have daytalk, and presuming they are active and actively helping Beer in this case, then I would expect to see evidence in the thread of scum trying to call what you claimed into question, and there are a few posts which may fall under that umbrella. I spent some time speculating about what I would do if I were on a scum team with a scum!Beer before I realized that it's not at all relevant since I'm not and I cannot accurately model how a posited team would have tried to respond to the situation. Obviously just immediately bussing would have been a bad idea for them, I think ... and I think it's

probably

safe to assume they would try and persuade you and/or the rest of us that it wasn't what you were saying.

You are basically helping the scum team if it was a legit slip, because you won't paraphrase the initial interaction nor how Beer tried to talk his way out of it, nor do you seem wiling to explain how it reads to you. Like ... do they seem coached or did one head stop talking and the other took over? What actually happened, and what do you think it indicates? We need to know to decide how to proceed

B: It was not a legit scum slip or it didn't even happen. Since you two began in an alliance, it seems possible to me that you are mod confirmed in alignment to one another and you staged the whole thing to see how the rest of us would respond. If this is the case, then it was actually a pretty brilliant play because you got a lot of responses from it. I've been kind of leaning more and more towards this line of thinking as time has passed and you seem reluctant to go into any further discussion about it nor do you seem all that intent on pushing Beer at all. In fact, you are currently voting us because we wanted to be sure your ability appears to work as you claimed. If you aren't familiar with what happened in "We didn't playtest this", just say so and Cerberus can summarize. Suffice it to say that neither He nor I are willing to just let claims lead to assumptions that could lead to...

Speaking of vanity wagons ... could you maybe put your vote where you actually think scum is? I think you've sufficiently made your point by complying with our request by parking your double vote on us ... but nobody else even seemed curious or at all thinking of the long term possible ramifications of your claim, so we would rather a few people scrutinize us so that the town has as much information as possible than keep silent to avoid attention.

It's time to shite or get off the pot Vezok. If you and Beer cooked up what you started the day with as a way to get reactions; freaking awesome job. Tell us what you gleaned from it. If what you partially described earlier actually happened for realsies, then paraphrase for us the initial exchange, whatever beer said to talk his way out of it, and describe anything that might indicate a team was coaching him or one head stepped in to try and "clean up" the mistake another head made. Right now, if I assume that Beer really did make the post you suggest ... it seems very likely that it was a legitimate scum slip where one of the heads just posted in the wrong PT ... and if that is so, we should lynch him. What confuses me is your seeming apathy about it.


Love, with a steaming mug of hot chocolate made with milk for extra rich creaminess,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Tunnel, Trench: I want to confirm this. Tonight, Trench and us will target Tunnel for an alliance. Tunnel will target both of us. We will be allied starting tomorrow. That is the plan we all have, and that is what's going to happen correct?

UNVOTE: grapes

I can't support that. I just don't think scum grapes(scrapes?) would have revealed that multiple voting power and immediately drawn attention to themselves, especially after someone else already exposed their own double voting. Seems really really sloppy and unscumlike.

Unfortunately, that leaves me with a problem. I'm not a fan of the radmann wagon, but I am a fan of some of the people on it. I don't like the idea of lynching someone who hasn't been on site even for 4 days. On the other hand, we have fuzzy, who has been declared lynchbait by some, but who capitalized on my line of questioning to ask some REALLY bad questions. For the moment I'm going to leave my vote free and floating. Drixx, don't revote grapes, no vanity wagons right now. I'll get together with Drixx sometime tomorrow and we'll figure out how we feel about those slots.

pedit: Oh yes, Beer. I need to reread(which might never happen, but I really need to) to figure out exactly how that wagon fell apart and why it did. Seems interesting that a clear easy mislynch(assuming beer is town) wasn't pushed harder by scum...which implies that he actually is scum, and was trolling the thread to make everyone doubt themselves, and it worked, etc, etc. Play seems town though once gorkington started talking.

[Reasonably Rational]

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I dunno which one you mean, I'm guessing RR, but I'll do both.

I felt like Sonic's criticism of Beer's attack on them was legitimate, and that was that they were basically just saying "this post is bad" with a lot more words. I felt like that style, whatever they called it, deep analysis or something, was basically just an excuse to seem like they were doing something. I believe vezok, and I think that pawtucket's failure to express any reads in his neighborhood is extremely suspicious, since that's a pretty low pressure environment.

For RR I am suspicious, but I can't really tell what's going on there. I mean your 899 hit the nail on the head, how likely is it that both heads have the exact same playstyle for this game? It's super weird. And trench is on their side, which bothers me. I'm open to voting them I guess, but I'm just so shaky on that read. They could be legit. I feel like I ought to see more.

p-edit: directed at grapes

This is interesting. I had actually missed the part in 899 talking about the similarity in style between Drixx and myself, and the reference to ego, so I'll take a moment to address it now since you drew my attention to it(thank you).

I am terrible at Day 1. Everything that everyone jumps at and tries to lynch people over reads like nonsense to me, and it all feels incredibly arbitrary. HOWEVER(and here is where the ego comes in) I KNOW that, if placed in a room with a random assortment of people, it is highly unlikely that they'll be better at a given intellectual pursuit than I am. What does this lead me to conclude? That if I think I'm fucking terrible at Day 1, most other people must be EVEN WORSE and just too blinded by their hubris to realize it. So, grapes was half right. There's ego involved, but it's not ego in thinking I'm actually good at this game. It's ego in thinking that if I'm this bad, how can the rest of you possibly be significantly better?

The above is the foundation of both my dislike for day 1, and my general lack of scum reads on said day. It's not that I/we don't have scum reads and leans we've discussed and the reasons behind them, it's that(in my case at least) I don't view the evidence as strong enough to present a case, regardless of how strongly I might feel someone is probably scum.

I hesitate to speak for Drixx, but I'm fairly certain he feels much the same way I do about the arbitrary nature of D1 reads and lynches. He's also better at this than I am, generally(he does focus a bit much on the wrong things sometimes). And we also both started out playing on the same site, with the same meta, so it shouldn't be entirely surprising if there are similarities in the way we approach the game. Beyond that, I can't really speak for him.

Sorry, that post should have happened 100 posts ago.

In regards to us "lurking out the game," I find it's far more interesting to see how the conversations about us flow when we're not actively involved in them. Plus, work and switching to the hydra is irritating. In any case, I'm putting this here: VOTE: Beer

I like this a lot more than the lynch the lynchbait plan(does anyone really believe fuzzy is THAT bad at being scum? like seriously? the level of scumminess in his posts is astronomical), or lynch the inactive who has been replaced by someone who actually seems engaged in the game.

For the record, I don't think Drixx will approve. He seems to be of the opinion that, because Vezok just gave up on that lynch, it was either a scum play that failed(which I think is unlikely, given that it's a low reward play with high risk, and given his double voting which seems unlikely to be(though possibly is) scum), OR it was a mutual play they came up with in their PT to reaction test the town, in which case it isn't alignment indicative at all.

I think the fact that this wagon disappeared basically as soon as the first distraction appeared is good cause to think it was on scum. I keep planning on looking at those vote counts, and seeing who left the wagon when and what they said was their reason for leaving it, but I keep pushing it off. I'll try to get around to it before we get super close to deadline. But remember, I'm terrible at this, so seriously, I could be wrong.

-Cerb

P.S. Let's see how long it takes for someone to point out how opportunistic this vote is, jumping on the wagon that's gaining momentum, and how it must be a counterwagon to scum somewhere in the current candidates, and how "omg it's so obvious he's just trying to distance himself from a lynch he KNOWS will flip town by talking about how he's bad". Whoever decides to take the plunge into making those arguments, you have fun with that.

P.P.S. Trench supporting us is a little worrisome as well(and you guys didn't confirm the plan with the allying thing, I'd like to make sure we're all clear on the procedure so we don't all end up without an alliance or something stupid like that). There's really two options there: Either they're scum, and know they failed miserably at getting Drixx at least lynched recently as town when they were fabulously wrong about his alignment and very confrontational, and thus think buddying up to us will be more effective, or they're town and have come to the realization that our mutual issues with getting a handle on each other/the ease with which we misunderstand each other are problems we should be very aware of, and try to avoid, and are thus doing so by deliberately being non confrontational. At least, that's how I see it. Maybe I'm overthinking it. Maybe it's as simple as "Titus would prefer to ally with known quantities who approach the game in a similar fashion, and will thus be more likely to spend the day in a useful conversation, than arguing about methodology."

[Reasonably Rational]

HOWEVER(and here is where the ego comes in) I KNOW that, if placed in a room with a random assortment of people, it is highly unlikely that they'll be better at a given intellectual pursuit than I am.

*shrug* Ego.

[Reasonably Rational]

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

UNVOTE: Beer

That was super fast. I still feel good about this lynch, but I don't want it happening before he can talk/while I'm working on figuring out what happened to the first wagon if there was this much support for his lynch.

For future ease of reference, the rise and fall of Beer wagon #1. Just to clarify, this isn't some shitty D1 VCA attempt. I just want to be able to skim through and figure out why the people who were on the wagon before gave as their reason for leaving his wagon.

27
Beer (3): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X
Mastin2 (1): Ricastle

75
Beer (5): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Ricastle, Trench Warfare
Cheetory6 (1): MaxwellPuckett
MaxwellPuckett (1): Cheetory6
Sonic X (1): Beer

127
Beer (5): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Ricastle, Trench Warfare
Cheetory6 (1): MaxwellPuckett
MaxwellPuckett (1): Cheetory6
Sonic X (1): Beer

279
Beer (5): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Ricastle, Trench Warfare
Sonic X (2): Beer, Cheetory6
radmann9 (1): Ra9in9 Bull

325
Beer (4): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare
Sonic X (2): Cheetory6, Ricastle
radmann9 (2): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG
Ra9in9 Bull (1): Beer
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Skybird (1): Marquis

350
Beer (6): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, TunnelWarriors, radmann9,
Sonic X (2): Cheetory6, Ricastle
radmann9 (2): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG
Ra9in9 Bull (1): Beer
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Skybird (1): Marquis

400
Beer (6): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, TunnelWarriors, radmann9,
Sonic X (2): Cheetory6, Ricastle
radmann9 (2): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG
Ra9in9 Bull (1): Beer
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

425
Beer (6): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, TunnelWarriors, radmann9
radmann9 (3): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG, Ricastle
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Ra9in9 Bull (1): Beer
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

475
Beer (5): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, radmann9
radmann9 (4): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG, Ricastle, TunnelWarriors
Ra9in9 Bull (2): Beer, grapes
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Cheetory6 (1): grapes
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

525
Beer (4): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, radmann9
radmann9 (3): CooLDoG, Ricastle, TunnelWarriors
Ra9in9 Bull (2): Beer, grapes
Trench Warfare (1): Ra9in9 Bull
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Cheetory6 (1): grapes
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

650
Ra9in9 Bull (4): Beer, grapes, Trench Warfare, Ricastle
Beer (3): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, radmann9
radmann9 (2): CooLDoG, TunnelWarriors
Thefuzzylogic99 (1): Sonic X
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Cheetory6 (1): grapes
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

675
Ra9in9 Bull (4): Beer, grapes, Trench Warfare, Ricastle
Beer (3): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, radmann9
radmann9 (2): CooLDoG, TunnelWarriors
Thefuzzylogic99 (2): Sonic X, grapes
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

726
Beer (3): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, radmann9
Ra9in9 Bull (2): grapes, Trench Warfare
radmann9 (2): CooLDoG, TunnelWarriors
Thefuzzylogic99 (2): Sonic X, grapes
NicCage (2): Cheetory6, Bins
Sonic X (2): Ricastle, Beer
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis
Marquis (1): Skybird
grapes (1): Reasonably Rational

728
radmann9 (2): CooLDoG, TunnelWarriors
Thefuzzylogic99 (2): Sonic X, grapes
NicCage (2): Cheetory6, Bins
Reasonably Rational (2): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka
Ra9in9 Bull (2): grapes, Trench Warfare
Sonic X (2): Ricastle, Beer
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis
Marquis (1): Skybird
grapes (1): Reasonably Rational
Beer (1): radmann9

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Spoiler:

UNVOTE: Beer

That was super fast. I still feel good about this lynch, but I don't want it happening before he can talk/while I'm working on figuring out what happened to the first wagon if there was this much support for his lynch.

For future ease of reference, the rise and fall of Beer wagon #1. Just to clarify, this isn't some shitty D1 VCA attempt. I just want to be able to skim through and figure out why the people who were on the wagon before gave as their reason for leaving his wagon.

27
Beer (3): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X
Mastin2 (1): Ricastle

75
Beer (5): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Ricastle, Trench Warfare
Cheetory6 (1): MaxwellPuckett
MaxwellPuckett (1): Cheetory6
Sonic X (1): Beer

127
Beer (5): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Ricastle, Trench Warfare
Cheetory6 (1): MaxwellPuckett
MaxwellPuckett (1): Cheetory6
Sonic X (1): Beer

279
Beer (5): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Ricastle, Trench Warfare
Sonic X (2): Beer, Cheetory6
radmann9 (1): Ra9in9 Bull

325
Beer (4): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare
Sonic X (2): Cheetory6, Ricastle
radmann9 (2): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG
Ra9in9 Bull (1): Beer
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Skybird (1): Marquis

350
Beer (6): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, TunnelWarriors, radmann9,
Sonic X (2): Cheetory6, Ricastle
radmann9 (2): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG
Ra9in9 Bull (1): Beer
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Skybird (1): Marquis

400
Beer (6): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, TunnelWarriors, radmann9,
Sonic X (2): Cheetory6, Ricastle
radmann9 (2): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG
Ra9in9 Bull (1): Beer
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

425
Beer (6): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, TunnelWarriors, radmann9
radmann9 (3): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG, Ricastle
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Ra9in9 Bull (1): Beer
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

475
Beer (5): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, radmann9
radmann9 (4): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG, Ricastle, TunnelWarriors
Ra9in9 Bull (2): Beer, grapes
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Cheetory6 (1): grapes
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

525
Beer (4): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, radmann9
radmann9 (3): CooLDoG, Ricastle, TunnelWarriors
Ra9in9 Bull (2): Beer, grapes
Trench Warfare (1): Ra9in9 Bull
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Cheetory6 (1): grapes
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

650
Ra9in9 Bull (4): Beer, grapes, Trench Warfare, Ricastle
Beer (3): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, radmann9
radmann9 (2): CooLDoG, TunnelWarriors
Thefuzzylogic99 (1): Sonic X
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Cheetory6 (1): grapes
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

675
Ra9in9 Bull (4): Beer, grapes, Trench Warfare, Ricastle
Beer (3): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, radmann9
radmann9 (2): CooLDoG, TunnelWarriors
Thefuzzylogic99 (2): Sonic X, grapes
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

726
Beer (3): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, radmann9
Ra9in9 Bull (2): grapes, Trench Warfare
radmann9 (2): CooLDoG, TunnelWarriors
Thefuzzylogic99 (2): Sonic X, grapes
NicCage (2): Cheetory6, Bins
Sonic X (2): Ricastle, Beer
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis
Marquis (1): Skybird
grapes (1): Reasonably Rational

728
radmann9 (2): CooLDoG, TunnelWarriors
Thefuzzylogic99 (2): Sonic X, grapes
NicCage (2): Cheetory6, Bins
Reasonably Rational (2): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka
Ra9in9 Bull (2): grapes, Trench Warfare
Sonic X (2): Ricastle, Beer
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis
Marquis (1): Skybird
grapes (1): Reasonably Rational
Beer (1): radmann9

-Cerb

Done! Now I'm gonna go get some work done, and after that I might see what I think about the people who have all joined this wagon right now, but given how late in the day it is, i don't expect to get much out of it.

Between 27 and 75, Ricastle and Trench joined, Ricastle in 47, trench in 59, neither giving much in the way of reasons, so I assume they felt Vezok's words about beer were reason enough to vote.

In 302, Ricastle moves his vote to Sonic X, having stated previously that he wants to see both Sonic and Beer lynched, and is sure that pool will result in at least one dead scum.


In 342 Tunnel votes Beer, referencing 340(stating that the wgeurts head feels that the sonic wagon is a counter wagon to the beer wagon, and that a Beer flip gives more information about a number of other players). In 344 radmann9 votes for Beer after agreeing with Tunnel about the information available from a Beer flip.

This is the height of the Beer wagon. 6 votes

Beer (6): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, TunnelWarriors, radmann9,

In 467 Tunnel switches his vote to radmann9 because vezok never actually paraphrased beers claimed gloating about his successful scum claim as well as the claim itself.

Trench asks for the same thing Tunnel wanted from Vezok, a summary of Beers words, and states that they like Beers play aside from that. They then unvote in 483 because both hydra heads aren't agreeing on the matter.

In 624 Sonic X moves their vote to fuzzy because of the infinite scumminess we all saw from them.

And finally, in 727, vezok votes for me, in response to the test i had asked about quite some time before.

radmanns vote never leaves Beer.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Unallied

Cheetory6
Ra9in9 Bull (Hydra; fro99er & ika)*
Sonic X (Hydra; Metal Sonic & ZZZX)
CooLDoG
Beer
Replace in radmann9
Mastin2
Thefuzzylogic99
Bins
Marquis

Allies:
Reasonably Rational/Trench Warfare/Tunnel Warriors
Ricastle/NicCage
Fluminator/Grapes
Skybird/Maxwell
vezokpiraka/farside22

Let me know if I got anything wrong there.

Also, I just realized that farside has never even attempted to vote. I mean, considering we currently have a player in the game who doesn't count, that kinda sort confirms their claim right? So I shouldn't be concerned about it right?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, I totally missed that farside wasn't even shown among those note voting. Yeah, that leaves no doubt there.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Spoiler: Ricastle

Just ISOed radmann and he is now a top scumread. 341 is possibly the worst post in the game so far. His two later posts also contain a huge unprecedented contradiction: In 344 he says that Beer "may very well be town, but TW is right about the amount of information a lynch would provide". Then suddenly in 353 he digs up a post 100 posts prior to his earlier statement, and uses it to claim that Beer is scum. And this was apparently his reason for voting Beer in 344, the same post where he said Beer may very well be town? Bullshit.

VOTE: radmann9

Also, I don't want to lynch Beer anymore.

This looks like an attempt to derail the Beer wagon. I'm not seeing anyone taking note of this(yet).

I know you're catching up and all, but Ricastle is currently on the Beer wagon, so I don't think your argument holds a ton of weight.

Why would he want to derail the Beer wagon just to put it at L-1 later?

The obvious answer to this is distancing by voting followed by derailing/counterwagoning followed by realizing it's better to be on the wagon when your scum buddy flips, rather than off it, given the post you just mentioned.

I don't think it's very likely though, but that's the reason why he would do it.

Bins: let's talk. you said you like conversations. I'll be around today and checking in, and I'll refrain from WoT'ing you. What are your thoughts on the current game state? Ask me some questions, something, let's get a conversation going.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Spoiler:

UNVOTE: Beer

That was super fast. I still feel good about this lynch, but I don't want it happening before he can talk/while I'm working on figuring out what happened to the first wagon if there was this much support for his lynch.

For future ease of reference, the rise and fall of Beer wagon #1. Just to clarify, this isn't some shitty D1 VCA attempt. I just want to be able to skim through and figure out why the people who were on the wagon before gave as their reason for leaving his wagon.

27
Beer (3): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X
Mastin2 (1): Ricastle

75
Beer (5): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Ricastle, Trench Warfare
Cheetory6 (1): MaxwellPuckett
MaxwellPuckett (1): Cheetory6
Sonic X (1): Beer

127
Beer (5): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Ricastle, Trench Warfare
Cheetory6 (1): MaxwellPuckett
MaxwellPuckett (1): Cheetory6
Sonic X (1): Beer

279
Beer (5): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Ricastle, Trench Warfare
Sonic X (2): Beer, Cheetory6
radmann9 (1): Ra9in9 Bull

325
Beer (4): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare
Sonic X (2): Cheetory6, Ricastle
radmann9 (2): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG
Ra9in9 Bull (1): Beer
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Skybird (1): Marquis

350
Beer (6): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, TunnelWarriors, radmann9,
Sonic X (2): Cheetory6, Ricastle
radmann9 (2): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG
Ra9in9 Bull (1): Beer
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Skybird (1): Marquis

400
Beer (6): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, TunnelWarriors, radmann9,
Sonic X (2): Cheetory6, Ricastle
radmann9 (2): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG
Ra9in9 Bull (1): Beer
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

425
Beer (6): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, TunnelWarriors, radmann9
radmann9 (3): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG, Ricastle
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Ra9in9 Bull (1): Beer
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

475
Beer (5): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, radmann9
radmann9 (4): Ra9in9 Bull, CooLDoG, Ricastle, TunnelWarriors
Ra9in9 Bull (2): Beer, grapes
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Cheetory6 (1): grapes
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

525
Beer (4): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, radmann9
radmann9 (3): CooLDoG, Ricastle, TunnelWarriors
Ra9in9 Bull (2): Beer, grapes
Trench Warfare (1): Ra9in9 Bull
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Cheetory6 (1): grapes
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

650
Ra9in9 Bull (4): Beer, grapes, Trench Warfare, Ricastle
Beer (3): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, radmann9
radmann9 (2): CooLDoG, TunnelWarriors
Thefuzzylogic99 (1): Sonic X
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Cheetory6 (1): grapes
Marquis (1): MaxwellPuckett
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

675
Ra9in9 Bull (4): Beer, grapes, Trench Warfare, Ricastle
Beer (3): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, radmann9
radmann9 (2): CooLDoG, TunnelWarriors
Thefuzzylogic99 (2): Sonic X, grapes
Sonic X (1): Cheetory6
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis

726
Beer (3): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, radmann9
Ra9in9 Bull (2): grapes, Trench Warfare
radmann9 (2): CooLDoG, TunnelWarriors
Thefuzzylogic99 (2): Sonic X, grapes
NicCage (2): Cheetory6, Bins
Sonic X (2): Ricastle, Beer
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis
Marquis (1): Skybird
grapes (1): Reasonably Rational

728
radmann9 (2): CooLDoG, TunnelWarriors
Thefuzzylogic99 (2): Sonic X, grapes
NicCage (2): Cheetory6, Bins
Reasonably Rational (2): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka
Ra9in9 Bull (2): grapes, Trench Warfare
Sonic X (2): Ricastle, Beer
Ricastle (1): NicCage
Skybird (1): Marquis
Marquis (1): Skybird
grapes (1): Reasonably Rational
Beer (1): radmann9

-Cerb

Done! Now I'm gonna go get some work done, and after that I might see what I think about the people who have all joined this wagon right now, but given how late in the day it is, i don't expect to get much out of it.

Between 27 and 75, Ricastle and Trench joined, Ricastle in 47, trench in 59, neither giving much in the way of reasons, so I assume they felt Vezok's words about beer were reason enough to vote.

In 302, Ricastle moves his vote to Sonic X, having stated previously that he wants to see both Sonic and Beer lynched, and is sure that pool will result in at least one dead scum.


In 342 Tunnel votes Beer, referencing 340(stating that the wgeurts head feels that the sonic wagon is a counter wagon to the beer wagon, and that a Beer flip gives more information about a number of other players). In 344 radmann9 votes for Beer after agreeing with Tunnel about the information available from a Beer flip.

This is the height of the Beer wagon. 6 votes

Beer (6): vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X, Trench Warfare, TunnelWarriors, radmann9,

In 467 Tunnel switches his vote to radmann9 because vezok never actually paraphrased beers claimed gloating about his successful scum claim as well as the claim itself.

Trench asks for the same thing Tunnel wanted from Vezok, a summary of Beers words, and states that they like Beers play aside from that. They then unvote in 483 because both hydra heads aren't agreeing on the matter.

In 624 Sonic X moves their vote to fuzzy because of the infinite scumminess we all saw from them.

And finally, in 727, vezok votes for me, in response to the test i had asked about quite some time before.

radmanns vote never leaves Beer.

-Cerb

Unallied

Cheetory6
Ra9in9 Bull (Hydra; fro99er & ika)*
Sonic X (Hydra; Metal Sonic & ZZZX)
CooLDoG
Beer
Replace in radmann9
Mastin2
Thefuzzylogic99
Bins
Marquis

Allies:
Reasonably Rational/Trench Warfare/Tunnel Warriors
Ricastle/NicCage
Fluminator/Grapes
Skybird/Maxwell
vezokpiraka/farside22

Let me know if I got anything wrong there.

Also, I just realized that farside has never even attempted to vote. I mean, considering we currently have a player in the game who doesn't count, that kinda sort confirms their claim right? So I shouldn't be concerned about it right?

-Cerb

Rational, both these posts are IIoA. What do you think about Beer's wagon and who's allying with whom?

There's nothing to analyze, if there had been, I would have. Nobody who was on beers wagon originally was especially vehement about him being scum. They were all couching joining the wagon in terms expressing their uncertainty and desire to hear more from Vezok and Beer about the exchange they had, or simply with naked votes. When they left the wagon, it all seemed to be for valid reasons. Again, nothing inconsistent was expressed. Without a flip. there's really not any information I could gather from the way the wagon came together and fell apart, and even with a flip, I feel the information gained from that particular sequence of events is going to be minimal. The conversations that happened about beer will gain more import, but the actual wagon formation and dissolution will not. I was going to look at the new wagon that came together as well, but given the proximity to the end of the day, I don't think there's a *lot* that I'll be able to gain from it, so I decided to save that for after the lynch, assuming it goes through. The main significance of the beer wagon will be in regards to how people chose to flash wagon him over the other options presented.

The allying was pure information collection. I figured it was something that might be helpful for people who wanted to know who was still available to ally with. Scum will surely be watching that closely, to have an idea of what sort of blocs of votes might come out of said alliances and to have an idea of where they might want to place a kill in order to diminish the effectiveness of an alliances conversation tomorrow/deny someone the alliance, but town might be lazier, and we should all be aware. Honestly, both those posts were just things I would have done just to have the information easily available to look at myself in the future without having to reread etc, but I didn't see any reason to not share what I saw with everyone else.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I think you're scummy. How's that for a start?

That's fine, I mean, I guess it begs the question of why, but I could probably find that answer in your iso, which I'll go check now that you responded.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Huh. alright, so I read your ISO, and you don't actually say why you think I'm scummy, you just say you like the first three options presented in 755, and then voted for me shortly thereafter. I guess I do have to ask why you think I'm scummy.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

In regards to 755, you said you liked the first three(as scum/lynch options). What made you disregard the other three options grapes presented, that is, tunnelwarriors/skybird/ragingbull?


pedit: Yeah, I kinda missed that, and then saw a naked vote and didn't really think too much of it. And sure, explanation is always good. I'm gonna be mobile too(clubbing time) so maybe we should stick to simple questions.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

We still have people who haven't allied. You should really get on figuring that out.

Anyways,

Intent to hammer Beer

, I will 100% be here before the deadline and throughout the day etc, I just want to give people a chance to figure out their allying things.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, if he isn't hated, we're at L-2, not L-1. So...that's something to take into account.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm here to vote as needed, but yes, a raging bull wagon seems extremely unlikely to work. I don't feel especially good about lynching off this whole ika is inactive as scum tell, but I don't mind lynching lurkers anyways, and he's been lurky...though not so lurky the last few hours.

-Cerb.

[Reasonably Rational]

RR, we have 6 less posts than you

And you also have two and a half pages of drunk arguing increasing that post count.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Someone voting beer need to explain why a hated role is scum.
One less vote to lynch is usually town.

Yeah I don't understand the thought that hated is scum. or the redirection while in an alliance. Farside, do you prefer a no lynch over beer?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Talk tonight? You mean D2? I already have alliance plans if that's what you're talking about...and the alliances give daytalk only in the alliance as stated in the opening posts.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

A flash wagon on RB isn't going to work.

And RR, yeah, I thought they functioned similar to neighbour, whoops. Anyways, it's mostly meta so it can wait. I'm really busy because I'm going camping (leaving tomorrow).

I pointed out the the point about bins saying we'd talk about it tonight, and above is her response.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

goddamn it grapes, you hammered 60 seconds too early


this must be done

by the power of the 7 chaos emeralds, i vanquish the vile scum that is fro99er

DUEL

Hmm. You do realize that the fact that you lived to today to do this again would seem to indicate scum aren't too worried about your choice of targets? Well, either that or they find it likely you'd make a play like that to get a NK targeted at you, and they just didn't believe you could do anything.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

nah.

the kill choices who died last night are obviously superior to me

In terms of mislynchability, sure. Meh. WiFoM I guess, since it does pretty clearly set frogger up to get lynched today if you get shot. Anyways, so, eh, can you tell us what you just did, or would you prefer to make us wait until Varsoon shows up to confirm?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

shut the fuck up, asshat, its a

gladiate

i wanted to slice you with it but you're probably more a loser than anything from what i've seen of your play

Yesterday it looked like a vig, especially given that it came right before the end of the day. Today your addition of the word duel made it look like a gladiator thing. Not very pro-town to gladiate immediately before day end and dismantle a wagon you're voting on...

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

YAY A PISSING CONTEST!!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

i am conftown

gladiators are always town

HAH.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

EBWOP: See, that's the kind of confirmation by role talk that leads to losses.

-cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, farside, you got your vote back! Very nice! Glad to see you joining the game!

-Cerb

pedit: I'm on my work comp so I don't have the link handy and I don't particularly want to go browsing through clearly game related websites. Drixx, X-men on incgamers?

That's also irrelevant. How hard would it be to take a weak scum team, give them a gladiator godfather, and call it good? Oh hey look, now you have a role that investigates as town and preys on the willingness of people to confirm it by role! That wouldn't be bastard. It would be a strong role to have on a weaker team. Or vs a strong town.

We might just disagree on where the line lies between bastard and not though.

ppedit: Assuming there is a new timeline(which isn't guaranteed), then yes, it wasn't SUPER anti-town to do what you did, especially if you felt it was likely he wasn't scum(but then, why were you voting him?), but it definitely wasn't very pro-town. Also, there's these previews here...which should have shown you the hammering vote...

[Reasonably Rational]

Eh, Ricastle, go a bit further down the rabbit hole there and you'll find some fan theories that the Light Prism is a gem itself. Not wholly implausible. The flavor also explains why he'd want to be targeted by anybody town reading him. The claim makes more sense than it seemed to at first.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

The whole claim felt wierd... I m a gladiator so I auto town. Why out yoursef for no reason. This felt like scum trying overly hard to make themself seem town. You were under no pressure and had no reason to claim.

unvote

vote Sonic

What? *sigh* Fuzzy...he just used a power which was CLEARLY a gladiator power. He had no reason to claim his character, sure, but his power was pretty obvious...

Why do I hate all your votes so much?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Marq is dead? I guess that's good timing for him.

R.I.P. Marq.
Cheet is dead too? Too bad, he was looking forward to this game.

So we can only vote between Frogger and Sonic today?

I was thinking the same thing.

Apparently? It hasn't been confirmed by Varsoon yet though, so we'll see. Don't see why he'd fake it though.

-Cerb

P.S. I'm making a little bit of an effort to be less WoTy, but....I find it leaves me just wanting to spam a bunch of separate little posts. Or just spam the thread and respond to everything, so it doens't all end up in one big post.

[Reasonably Rational]

RR, the way you're posting today makes it a lot easier to get a feel for you than your posting yesterday, for what it's worth.

You're also responding and talking about more things that aren't you today, which is better. Was gonna continue to push you had you not knocked that off.

Because if I had continued doing that it would have made it super easy to get me mislynched?

^^

I just don't like spamming up the thread, and I don't usually see much reason to interject all the time. If someone wants to talk to/about me, then I'll interject..usually. As I said, this is...something different.

So, everyone, are you all happy with your alliances? Things working out well for everyone? Learning things, discussing them, and just generally being productive in your 'hoods?
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Good update. So cheetory was the target, which means cheetory would appear to have been janitored. Sonic: how does your claimed gladiator ability work? Just want to confirm you were lying.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

But...it's all so transparent. Like, wtf? What benefit does he get out of this when it's disproven at the first vote count?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah...Metal Sonic replaced Sonic X(ZZZX left the hydra), and MS did his whole gladiator thing, and then went to sleep. No bailing.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Eh, I suppose it's possible metal invoked whatever he was talking about the wrong way? Or some effect stopped it from working? I mean, there are alternatives besides haha he made a stupid pointless gambit that was only useful for 10 posts!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Would like to give Bins a little more time to explain, but as far as I understand it:

1.) Bins can ally with whomever she wants. She expected this to form a separate alliance, but instead she got joined onto our larger one.
2.) Bins can destroy the abilities of everyone in her alliance, but not selectively. It's all or nothing.

Bins' first comment in the conversation was something to the effect that she thought she would just get Cerb and I in a different alliance, and her second comment in the PT was a reference to the second part of her ability, which she said she would no longer due given the circumstances. It was only very recently temporally that Bins admitted what that 2nd part actually does.

Going to hold off on voting and give her a chance to actually explain herself. I've been going hard bad cop at her for a few hours now.

Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Don't make assumptions bins. The full meaning of that sentence, with the parenthetical aside removed, would be "In some other context, what you did might be considered kidnapping."

The parenthetical aside is there because I didn't want a huge argument about making an analogy to the real world analogue of something done in game, so I made it clear I had endured far worse. It's not alignment indicative (how could it be?).

[Reasonably Rational]

First post: "I expected it to just be me and RR"
Second post: "Since it's way more of us, I won't use the second part of my ability as that would be super non town"

Later Post: "By the way the second part of my ability is to destroy your role completely"


Can someone explain to me how Post #1 and Post #2 does not mean that had things played out as intended, Bins would have vaporized our role? How is that not an implicit threat? Thanks in advance logical peoples.

Loves,
Drixx

(Who obviously wrote the post between that was accidentally unsigned, because he's bad at signing things).

[Reasonably Rational]

by the 7 chaos emeralds

I demand divination destruction against the frog

The "first" usage. This would logically have never occurred since the lynch lock was achieved. It would be bastard and non-normal both to have someone expend a shot of anything after the lynch was achieved and it was just twilight waiting for the mod to show up and lock.

by the power of the 7 chaos emeralds, i vanquish the vile scum that is fro99er

DUEL

Different phrasing in each case, except for "the 7 chaos emeralds", which have nothing to do with the theme. They are purely related to Sonic.

I notice that I am confused.


Love and Hugs,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Based upon Ricastle's #1616, he seems like a good place to start putting votes. He appears to be grasping at straws trying to manufacture some reason to attack me.

Bins replaced out because of something we both share in our past that I mentioned in our alliance, as an aside to a point I was making, and it was a trigger for her. I couldn't have known ahead of time and clearly now know and I am fairly confident that, given it being a shared experience for us both, we'll be just fine with one another after the game. And that's where any and all further talk about it belongs: after the game.

Trying to exploit someone replacing out by just making up reasons is a new low for you Ricastle.


Love, to everyone, even scummy people because they obviously need it the most,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

you guys need to seriously stop with the flavor stuff

frog really needs more votes

bins and frogs claims both sound like scum just claiming their roles as appose to fake claiming something else to me, the ascetic doesn't necessarily make frog scum, though, all that does is give more credence to sonics claim, the whole way frog went about it is scummy though

the bins thing is word of mouth which i don't put much stock into, interested to hear from that slot a bit more on the subject

a multi-vanillarizar alliance joiner doesn't particularly scream town role to me, but it's really REALLY powerful as a scum role if you think about it

It's word of 3 mouths. Do you think we're all lying together, and thus likely scum together?

The Bins/Constantine slot is, to me, scummy by role, town by play, because the best way to use that role as scum is to wait until tunnel gets his huge mega group together on the season finale, join that day, and then wreck 5 slots powers. In my opinion at least. That's the wya to get the most bang for your buck, as it were. Maybe even toss in a good or your weakest role/something that used up it's slots to join that group as well, so they end up with the same towncred as everybody else who got blasted by your power.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Guys, help me out here. I am trying to jump in the game quite unsuccessfully.

What do you need? Also, come talk to us in the PT. Being silent in there isn't helping your case.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It's really not too complex.

You can choose someone to ally or fuse with each night. If the person you chose also chose you, the next day phase you'll be allied/fused, and have a PT to chat in during the daytime.

Whether an alliance or a fusion happens depends on whether you are human, gem, or other. Humans and others can ONLY ally. Gems can ally or fuse. Fusion only happens if two gems choose each other as allies.

Gems generally get an extra ability for being in a fusion/alliance.
Humans normally get a limited use ability for being in an alliance.
Others don't get anything, but their roles are generally stronger.

Every 4th Day/Night phase is a season finale, and during a season finale instead of targeting 1 person for an alliance/fusion, everyone can target two people, allowing for larger pt's.

In addition, some limited shot abilities will recharge during the season finale, and other abilities are only available during the season finale.

I think that's it.

-Cerb

P.S. Still need to come talk to us!

[Reasonably Rational]

Yes, Bins said she could leave.

Constantine has changed that to he can leave but the alliance gets blown up.

~Titus

Untrue. Bins said they could just leave. Upon being asked to confirm that, and asked to leave, Constantine said his role says he can "end the alliance" anytime. He took that to mean it would end the entire alliance, in the same way bins thought "starting an alliance" with someone of their choice would limit said alliance to just the targeted party.

Constantine says upon rereading his role, leaving the alliance is actually synonymous with the role destroying power, so he can leave anytime, but it's a side effect/the cause of the vanillaizing.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I see plenty about the Bins situation that can be town. Mainly, town that don't read their role PM correctly being vastly more likely than scum who don't read their role PM correctly, and from what I hear it doesn't sound like a case of scum revisionism like Drixx

You will recall that I inherited a fake claim with several points of obvious failure, and replaced into the remnants of a scum team so demoralized they both hit nearly a month real time without a single post in the game ... and pulled out the scum win, right? I would appreciate it if you wait to disparage my scum play until after you've seen me do it without being boxed in by unrealistic constraints.

I swear to the Lord Almighty that I will blow up all your threads and power roles if I get to L-1. Try me bitches!

A similar threat was made in the alliance chat. I see no town motive for holding Trench/Tunnel/Us hostage like this.

WTB

[DayVig Kill]

; rush order.

[Reasonably Rational]

Ricastle: wgeurts posted in our pt threatening to shoot constantine. Then, I stated that I wanted Tunnel to shoot Constantine because he threatened us, and Tunnel had already revealed his day vig to us, and this was the first time I had seen wgeurts post while I was online and could respond, and could thus get his shot off before Constantine vanillaized us. Wgeurts argued that he wanted to give Constantine a chance. Constantine responded to wgeurts threat of shooting by saying he had to retaliate, and no, it wasn't by vanillaizing us. I asked what the difference between him threatening us, and us threatening him was, and wgeurts clarified that he was reaching out to him and giving him a chance, and just wanted to make it clear that he wasn't the only one with powers. Constantine then posted a gif of someone getting a basketball thrown through their head, asking if we could guess what it represented. wgeurts said it depended on who shot first. constantine posted gifs of explosions, and said he already shot. From there all relevant conversation moved to this thread.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

No, wgeurts did not. He insinuated it(in what Im' assuming was just supposed to be a threat), and constantine responded using the words "I already shot".

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ok, Trench finally helped me understand their alliance situation somewhat with that last post...let me get this straight.

Bins KNEW there'd be a large alliance between TW1, TW2, and RR. And intentionally imposed herself on it, with the possibility of being able to nullify up everyone's abilities?

Why did Bins:

1) not choose a smaller alliance where she scumread one of the two (or both). Less collateral damage if she really was going to use her vanillafying power
2) instead choose the three person alliance where she's only scumreading ONE of the three, yet threaten to vanillafy two townies just to vanillify ONE scum read?

I have no idea what Hermit did or didn't do in regards to actually vanillafying or retracting it via PM, and I guess we'll never know.

But then Tunnel also threatened/actually did dayvig. Was the dayvig PM actually sent? If so, then why hasn't it gone through?

This is confusing, and I think some clarity is needed from both Hermit and Tunnel. Why did Tunnel suddenly disappear after he threatened/did dayvig and Varsoon has posted no day kills? We had two people threaten/actually (maybe) use abilities on each other/the alliance yet nothing happened?

She claimed she thought her ability would simply force an alliance between my slot and her own, while leaving the other alliance unaffected. This would therefore let her sort our slot, and decide if she should vanillaize us. Upon realizing she had instead joined our huge alliance, she said her second ability was really anti-town, so she just wouldn't use it.

It looks like she simply acted without clarifying exactly what her power would do. At least, that's what she claimed.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ok...that makes more sense.

So the question remains. Then once Hermit replaced in, why would she threaten/actually try to/retract a vanillaizing on the whole neighborhood? Does Hermit believe two or three of you are scum?

Because Constantine is an idiot. He claimed to townread all of us in the PT, then when Trench started pushing for a lynch on him, he threatened to vanillaize us in spite of that read.

He then claimed he had a scum read on tunnel, and felt it was a good idea to vanillaize us because we'd only discussed tunnels abilities, and thought that was the most harm that would be done if he was wrong and so it was worth it.

So, again, because Constantine's choices don't make sense. They REALLY don't make sense as scum, and they mostly don't make sense as town.

-Cerb

pedit: because TSO hasn't been reading the game, and he's the one posting, not Titus, who is the one who has been following the game.

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, we haven't seen tunnel, so we know as much about the dayvig as the rest of you.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ok...that makes more sense.

So the question remains. Then once Hermit replaced in, why would she threaten/actually try to/retract a vanillaizing on the whole neighborhood? Does Hermit believe two or three of you are scum?

Because Constantine is an idiot. He claimed to townread all of us in the PT, then when Trench started pushing for a lynch on him, he threatened to vanillaize us in spite of that read.

He then claimed he had a scum read on tunnel, and felt it was a good idea to vanillaize us because we'd only discussed tunnels abilities, and thought that was the most harm that would be done if he was wrong and so it was worth it.

So, again, because Constantine's choices don't make sense. They REALLY don't make sense as scum, and they mostly don't make sense as town.

-Cerb

pedit: because TSO hasn't been reading the game, and he's the one posting, not Titus, who is the one who has been following the game.

But who threatens other slots with something like vanillaizing if they are town? Didn't he try and counter the arguments on why he is scum? I am reading his actions as more scummy than town.

I really don't understand why scum would even admit to the vanillazing power. That's my main issue with the thought that they're scum. Why the hell would they tell us that?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ricastle: Is your kill immediate? I want you on record about what to expect from this before Varsoon shows up and you could change the narrative to whatever matches what happened.

Also, yes, sonic, scum are obviously incredibly strong, and so is town.

Can you explain why you'd shoot tunnel over constantine in this situation?

Mastin: You're making assumptions about how their power works. We have no reason to think they can't just leave normally during the regular night targeting to make a new alliance. Their claim is leaving early, during the day, involves invoking their power...and also that it *won't* kill our alliance, but it will kill our roles if they do that.

-Cerb

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah, I was talking to you. And no, claiming that you don't think it's possible for there to be two day vigs in a game which appears to have someone who can vanillaize multiple roles, multiple people with multiple votes, and a mass commuter isn't an excuse that any reasonable person would accept, so the "obvious" reason isn't acceptable.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah, seems pretty certain he's not faking this. ah well, spilt milk. I think you have terrible reasons for your shot, and you're almost certainly wrong.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, that flavor is pretty obvious within the first..umm...i'm not sure how many episodes, but I started watching the show, and each episode is like 11 minutes long, and it didn't take that many of those 11 minute episodes before I learned about the Light Cannon and the trigger phrase for it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

So how long is your good list Sonic? Just curious.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ah alright. Much better way to judge the players than whether or not they're actually..."good"

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

ARE.

YOU.

SHITTING.

ME.

Pretty sure you're the only one surprised by this.

-Cerb

pedit: Lying about his dayvig shouldn't hvae been too surprising either, given that it was wholly unreasonable for him to not shoot constantine. Either he was an idiot(which I don't think he is), he was lying about his dayvig, or he and constantine were scum together. None of those are things I particularly wanted to mention, but they were really the only reasonable options. I will admit I wasn't positive on those things, but, it does make the plays all make sense.

[Reasonably Rational]

OMG. Lol. I just noticed that. You're blaming him for your shitty shot? No, you get to take credit for your bad play.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hmm. Well, I don't know exactly what being in your shoes entails...but unless you have confirmation of some peoples alignments in there, no, I don't believe what you did is what anyone would have done.

It's irrelevant though. You did just move yourself really high on my town list, and you weren't sorted before, so that's something.

-Cerb

pedit: The point is it's unreasonable for you to take that shot off the evidence you had. Now, let's stop arguing about it, we can save that discussion for post game.

[Reasonably Rational]

Also I guess it wouldn't hurt to mention that Tunnel was probably scumreading someone in his alliance, which is why he claimed dayvig and gave them all his trust to attract them to him as an optimal kill.

Anyone else in the PT can confirm, but he was townreading the people he invited into the PT with him(us and trench). He thought Constantine needed to be lynched, but I don't think that was based on alignment, more of a PL based on him not being trustworthy with the role. The latter part there is my interpretation of his reasoning though, not what he actually said.

He claimed dayvig and all that other stuff because he wanted to make his role such an obvious threat that scum would try to target it and he would get to kill them.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

He claimed dayvig and all that other stuff because he wanted to make his role such an obvious threat that scum would try to target it and he would get to kill them.

Precisely. But as far as I can see, he only ever intended to claim to you three. Therefore, it stands to reason that he was covertly scumreading one of you and hoped that same person would kill him.

In the same post where he listed his powers to us in the PT, he specifically said he planned to claim all those things in the thread as well. Again, confirmable by the other people who are in the PT. The fact that he didn't get around to it is probably due to all the drama that has since occurred.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Anyway, you can try to justify your thought that trench or ourselves(I guess? not really sure what pronoun to use there) were thought to be scum by tunnel as much as you'd like, all I know is he was townreading us, trench, vezok, and yourself Ricastle.

[Reasonably Rational]

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Flum, what do you think of Hermit?

Thinking again, he's back to town. His threat was pretty unsmart, but I've spectated a game Constantine was in before, and it seems to be his personality. There is actually one thing that interests me.

Do the players get told they are vanillaized?

Because if they don't, then scum-Constantine never would have admitted to nuking them. His change of mind, editing the PM, and thinking he'd be killed over it seems pretty town to me. It could be some gambit, but it would be rather unnecessary.

Good question.

Are day viggers usually town?

I don't think the role itself is alignment indicative, but the usage is. A scum day vig would be much better off waiting to lylo and sending in his kill at the same time he hammers a mislynch to force an immediate town loss if town can't prevent the next kill.

[Reasonably Rational]

-Cerb. Damnit. Getting sloppy.

[Reasonably Rational]

Vezok, RR and I have decided to neighborize other people tonight. We both agreed that you and I neighborizing would be a good idea. Please tell me if you're interested sooner rather than later, because if you're not, then we need to pick a new person for me to neighborize with.

~ObvTitus

As Titus said above. We'd like to neighborize either Sonic or Frogger, if either party to that snafu at the start of the day would be willing.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Preferably Frogger, btw, but I'd like to discuss things with both of you really.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Vezok, are you scumreading us because I called you out on your bullshit yesterday? It's beginning to seem like it.

I have no idea why the fuck Titus wants to ally with you.

@TSO because RR and I both think Vezok's town and allies/fusions come with neighborhoods darling.

But why are we wasting time with him? He completely fucking ignored me yesterday repeatedly and has shown literally no signs of attempting to change this.

This sounds like a conversation that should be occurring in your hydra PT, or perhaps in our joint PT. Whichever.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

TunnelWarriors lied about the dayvig before I factored into play. He was already in a mode of discussing how he was going to use his dayvig before I even started talking in that thread. The fact that he lied made absolutely no sense. I consider that way worse than me attempting to end the Rave Alliance based on a suspicion he was scum.

You're in the PT Constantine...you have access to the post where he explained his and DP's thinking and why they did what they did, with both the early claim in thread and the lies they told in the PT and were planning on sharing with the town before all the drama happened.

You might not think it was a good idea, but I can't understand how you can fail to see his thought process.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

No, lying to town is never a logical thought process unless you have a powerful role

I guess we'll just have to disagree then. Though, to be fair, i really didn't expect Mr. "lol rage harder at my terrible play" to judge actions based on the logic behind them.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

What does that make you think, btw? That the only person you were aiming for if you had gone through with your alleged power, is actually the one who is confirmed town. The one you were sure was scum. Is confirmed town. I hope that at least makes you take a moment to sit back and reflect on your choices in the past.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I guess we'll just have to disagree then. Though, to be fair, i really didn't expect Mr. "lol rage harder at my terrible play" to judge actions based on the logic behind them.

Me and ricastle have a lot in common in this game. We both made unpopular plays because we brainwashed ourselves into believing that asshole Wguerts was scum.

See, that's where you're wrong. I don't like your plays just because you made them. In your mind, it made sense, I don't agree with that, whatever. The thing that gets me is that neither of you had a gun pointed to your head(wgeurts was actively arguing with me against "vigging" you), and ricastle wasn't even on his radar, and yet you both decided to jump the gun...when there was NO harm in waiting until later in the day to see what more was said.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Constantine, did you or did you not read the post in our pt about his reason for deliberately making his role seem more powerful and threatening than it was?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Anyways, I am making a post in the PT that you might find important

Post isn't there. I'm refreshing all my games furiously today, kinda slow at work. ^^

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, sure. I don't, however, believe either Ricastle or yourself can blame him for your knee-jerk reactions. Try thinking before you act. If something can't be undone...don't fucking do it any earlier than you have to. You think he's scum? Plan to vig him? Milk him for some fucking information first.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Not a fan of Hermit's "Ricastle did it too" so it justifies me attitude. Scum often uses the "oh another townie did it" excuse, and he seems to be misreading or misrepping what was said in your PT.

RR is reading super town as a result of that last post.

Not sure what Cool thinks about your ally proposal to me, but our PT has been pretty sparse...but that's just because he's less active it seems. You'd also have to be ok with my vote following ability.

Yeah, that's fine. I'm pretty damn active...I doubt my vote would be anywhere I didn't want it for any notable amount of time.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay seriously. This just needs to be said.

Ricastle; your actions strongly indicate that you might be an idiot. I'm sorry to be so blunt about it but really, your action was

that

bad. You need to go sit in the idiot chair and play with the idiot ball for awhile.

Like ... within a couple pages before your shot, it was pointed out that town vigilante is dying out as a role on this site because most town vigilantes try to be "hero vig" and end up being "zero vig" instead. Someone even explicitly said why vigilante shots end up being bad and fail, and even pointed out how to

avoid

becoming a "zero vig", and then you just ignored all that and become a zero.

The worst part is that TunnelWarriors freaking claimed his character already, and demonstrated that a large portion of his claim was true by forming a larger than normal alliance.

Somehow, even worse than that ... you shot TunnelWarriors because he had a ridiculously pro-town plan in motion. You had

SOLID RATIONAL EVIDENCE

that TunnelWarriors was bluffing about dayvig, or else why would the Bins slot still be alive after it threatened to make three of us vanilla? It appears like you didn't even engage your brain, ever, throughout the entire process that led to you making that play.


Furthermore, you are very scummy after the vig was over because you are speculating about TunnelWarriors thinking either We or Trench are scum, and stating it as if it were fact. Even after you were corrected and told that Tunnel had claimed and explained his plans completely after you did the shot in thread, but before he died, you still pressed on with that narrative. You get extra scum points for trying to ditch responsibility for your

horrendously awful

play and even more so for trying to make your victim seem at fault. Your attempts to deflect any blame

and

to plant the idea that Tunnel's actions must mean he had some reason to think We or Trench are scum ... those things look like they have an agenda behind them. They appear to be you trying to spin a narrative. You know which side of mafia games has to make up a story? The fucking scum side.

For your information, and Trench can confirm this, Tunnel had a very good plan for making a town block and firming his

town

read on both Trench and Us. He outlined his plan and how he was testing us after you did your crap in the thread, and really that hydra was quite smart in how it approached things. You just blew up what I suspect would have been a very powerful town block.

I personally think you are scum, given the way you have tried to spin things and put words into a dead slot's mouth. I also think the point that people shouldn't try and hero vig apparently isn't made just by saying it and pointing it out and explaining how to avoid the trap. Perhaps if we lynch you, we might make the point loud and clear enough that, at least among people in this game, someone might actually learn the fucking lesson.

I'm cranky, going through full mouth reconstruction (full dental extractions and implants a few teeth at a time) and thus in pain all the time, and I just have no patience for the sort of awful that you displayed in the action and the aftermath. If you are town, you need to take responsibility for your absolutely ridiculously shitty play instead of trying to blame other people for a decision you made by yourself, apparently while entirely ignoring tons of things in the freaking game thread that were telling you that you shouldn't do it.

Personally, I think you are scum and you slipped after the flip.

VOTE: Ricastle

Love, to everyone who isn't currently holding the idiot ball,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

There's more to it than that.

And ricastle; go fuck yourself. You are so self-contradictory it would be amusing if you weren't so obviously scummy and incompetent.

On the one hand, you want to be justified in the stupid action you took (when there were many other actions you could have taken to give yourself more information first, but you appear to be too lazy to read the thread and/or incapable of applying logic, so this point is obviously lost upon you). So you claim you shot him because he claimed to be able to dayvig and you didn't believe there could be two (that's atrocious setup spec, by the way ... really super bad setup speculation).

Then, on the other hand, you want to say that you shot him for lying about having a shot, when it gets pointed out that it was absurdly obvious to everyone that if Tunnel actually

had

a vig shot, then Constantine would be dead after he nearly nuked all of our abilities.

Everything out of you since you JFDI'd is scummy or despicable or both. You still won't even take responsibility for your bullshit. And now that you added yourself to the long list of people who don't understand how to use one of the most basic roles in the game, and are (presumably) out of shots, you tell us that your plan is to be a lurksack and try to survive into the endgame. Who in their right mind would want you in the end game after what you did, especially since there's such a thing as limited use powers recharging and it's likely that if we let you live you'll get another shot. You've proven that you cannot be trusted to live just because of

that

possibility alone. Add on to that the fact that you apparently aren't actually keeping up with the thread and don't actually care to put in the effort to properly play your role {You know, all those things you could have done to test and get info out of Tunnel

before

just unilaterally killing him without any actual logical reason to do so}, and your stated intent to just lurk and put nothing into the game, and you are an automatic loss condition for town if you make it into end game.


@Everyone - Ricastle needs to go. He is likely to get another shot and use it as spectacularly badly as his first one, based upon known information, and he has admitted that he isn't going to actually put any proper effort into the game.


Love and chocolate chip cookies,
Drixx

P.S. - Trench read the alliance chat.

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, and drop the "woe is me, people are being mean because I made a play that severely hurt the town when there were plenty of other things I could have done and still left myself the option to shoot later" act.

The reason you got the first critical post from me was because you tried to blame the victim for your action. In fact, I'm pretty sure you have never actually taken responsibility for it. You keep trying to rationalize it and act like it was a perfectly reasonable thing for you to do, when it simply wasn't, at all. You didn't even

try

to interact with Tunnel to try and get an actual read ... your entire reasoning for shooting seems to be really bad speculation about the setup (because you didn't realize that Constantine being alive made Tunnel's vig claim a gambit). This isn't the Road to Rome, Ricastle; there are players in this game who are many levels of skill ahead of me and you. They play the game with subtlety and it doesn't even seem to have occurred to you that you were seeing a townie play out a gambit. It is concerning that there's not evidence of you even

considering

things beyond the bare surface level.

Honestly, it looks like you weren't really paying attention to the game at all and basically skimmed and noticed Tunnel had claimed to have a vig shot, didn't evaluate the context at all or think about it and just shot.

But the blaming Tunnel for your decision just left an incredibly bad taste in my mouth. I had already vented in hydra chat about what you did and wouldn't have done so in the thread but I just couldn't abide all of that rationalization and blame shifting. Be and adult and take responsibility for your mistakes. People will respect you a hell of a lot more, and I suspect you'll have far fewer occasions where you throw yourself a pity party in the game.


Drixx, obviously.

[Reasonably Rational]

Rational, Ricastle is town. Seriously, supply me with a character that could use the Laser Light Cannon that is in any capacity scum. That's how you clear someone via flavour.

Also, Rational, are you trying to convince us to PL Ricastle, or is he still scum to you? I'm having a hard time telling.

Grapes, how is Skybird your best vote right now? You said yourself that there at least a few people that you could lynch today, apparently, so why are you wasting your time with a vanity wagon?

P-Edit: I saw that vid going around on tumblr a few weeks ago, it's fun

Drixx and I are of two minds on this. I think Ricastle is absolutely town. Drixx thinks he's scum, and that even if he's not scum, he should be PL'd.

I disagree with PL's on slots that I find to be almost certainly town. It's a quandary.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

For the last time, my role isn't a vannilalizer. It only removes x shot abilities. After tonight it will most likely be powerless.

This is disingenuous.

1) Assumes people have roles with shots they're going to want to use quickly.
2) Assumes peoples shots aren't going to regenerate, even though the setup clearly indicated some do.
3) Insinuates that you can only do this once, even though it's entirely possible your shots recharge like others do.

Why did you clarify that your ability only removes limited shots?

Finally, why are you working to make yourself appear non-threatening? Scum will determine your threat level independently of any assertions you make here, by deciding how likely they think it is you'll invade a neighborhood they're part of AND think they're scum AND be willing to say fuck you to the other person in there. It seems like the only people you'd want to appear non threatening to are town...and that makes me feel uncertain in my town read on you.

Ricastle: Just to clarify, I don't dislike you or mean to harass you out of the game(for my part in this slot at least), I just disagreed with the play you made and the justifications you used afterwards. No offense intended etc., this is just a game, have fun with it man.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, frogger: Any thoughts on my proposal?

Sonic: you said Light Prism right? Would you object to clarifying if said prism is identified as a gem, or as other, in your PM? I could see it going either way I think.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Just read up from yesterday and.. I wanna interact with someone.

Grapes, you're so sure of your Skybird read, and you told me not to be the vote police, but maybe you could just.. tell us where you're going with the Skybird vote? Is it a wagon or not? Is a it a super secret gambit? You can just say that you're trying to get Skybird lynched, I don't know why you got all defensive when I asked about it.

Ooh interact with me interact with me!!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Maxwell, I enjoy playing with you. So, before anything else, I should address why Constantine isn't scum(to this head of the hydra at least).

There's no gain for scum i can see from the way bins entered the pt, and then the way the situation was handled from that point forward.

Why expose the existence of a secondary power to *3* other players? What does the slot get out of it, other than a boatload of attention? Then, when Constantine came in, again, why threaten us. I really don't see how anything in that sequence of events notably benefits scum, in a way that outweigh the risk of just getting outright lynched. They saw the day before that just a single person pressuring and harping on about scummy behavior in a PT got someone lynched. What they did was the exact same, except to 3 slots, not just one.

In addition...knowing that tunnel wasn't on your team, and had announced the ability to gather up 5 total people in one giant alliance in one night...why wouldn't you just take the opportunity to join the group *that* night, if you were willing to sacrifice the slot(which is the only thing those threats they made seemed likely to accomplish), and make sure none of your teammates are in there(or maybe *one* teammate is in there, who wouldn't lose anything from your power), and blow up all of them? Assuming bins/saint is scum, and actually has the power stated, why would they use it so poorly?

The only marginal evidence i can see for the chance of that slot being scum, is if that power actually didn't exist, and they were making a gambit to rolefish people...but with the environment in our pt, if they had just managed to win our confidence, it's very likely we were have all been working together with few reservations, if not for the hostility displayed by that slot. And even if it was a gambit...again, the potential gains aren't worth losing a member over. So, again, it just doesn't make much sense for scum to play it at all that way.

Now, as to why that post makes me question him(even a tiny bit(which is about how much it's making me question him)), is that I feel like the post is designed to, as I said, minimize his threat. It sounds like it could be meant to make town think "Oh. That's not as bad as I thought it was. We don't need to PL this slot because it's too dangerous if he gets it wrong," while simultaneously explaining why scum wouldn't shoot him...because, again, it's not *that* threatening. It feels very self serving, in the guise of giving out extra information.

-Cerb

pedit: I think I need to look at the circumstances, because I was really more focused on the interaction between grapes and skybird, but I'd be willing to nakedly vote niccage myself if I were to iso him and find out that the accusations people are making towards him seem reasonable. I mean, would it have been better if he just went and quotes the post where someone else made a case against niccage, and then voted? that's basically what he's done, except he waited for you to ask him before he specified the reason why he voted.

[Reasonably Rational]

There's no gain for scum i can see from the way bins entered the pt, and then the way the situation was handled from that point forward.

Why expose the existence of a secondary power to *3* other players? What does the slot get out of it, other than a boatload of attention? Then, when Constantine came in, again, why threaten us. I really don't see how anything in that sequence of events notably benefits scum, in a way that outweigh the risk of just getting outright lynched. They saw the day before that just a single person pressuring and harping on about scummy behavior in a PT got someone lynched. What they did was the exact same, except to 3 slots, not just one.

In addition...knowing that tunnel wasn't on your team, and had announced the ability to gather up 5 total people in one giant alliance in one night...why wouldn't you just take the opportunity to join the group *that* night, if you were willing to sacrifice the slot(which is the only thing those threats they made seemed likely to accomplish), and make sure none of your teammates are in there(or maybe *one* teammate is in there, who wouldn't lose anything from your power), and blow up all of them? Assuming bins/saint is scum, and actually has the power stated, why would they use it so poorly?

The only marginal evidence i can see for the chance of that slot being scum, is if that power actually didn't exist, and they were making a gambit to rolefish people..

.but with the environment in our pt, if they had just managed to win our confidence, it's very likely we were have all been working together with few reservations, if not for the hostility displayed by that slot. And even if it was a gambit...again, the potential gains aren't worth losing a member over. So, again, it just doesn't make much sense for scum to play it at all that way.

Now, as to why that post makes me question him(even a tiny bit(which is about how much it's making me question him)), is that

I feel like the post is designed to, as I said, minimize his threat.

It sounds like it could be meant to make town think "Oh. That's not as bad as I thought it was. We don't need to PL this slot because it's too dangerous if he gets it wrong," while simultaneously explaining why scum wouldn't shoot him...because, again, it's not *that* threatening. It feels very self serving, in the guise of giving out extra information.

You say that the only way he could be scum in your eyes is if the power was a gambit... but you think that's unlikely, as you've explained. However, it's 'the chance of that slot being scum', so..

If you believe that the post is designed to make Constantine look less threatening, why make that original fake role-destruction gambit at all?

The only thing I could think of for your narrative is that town Constantine made a mistake, and is now backpedaling and trying to make himself look less threatening than he originally presented himself to be. That seems kind of silly, because Constantine's whole original plan was to protect himself by threatening to blow up everybody.

I'm seeing it as scum trying to stay alive in what they thought was a hostile environment (your PT), and then changing tactics once the conversation was brought to the thread (undoing the threat of blowing up a portion of someone's role).

pedit: I think I need to look at the circumstances, because I was really more focused on the interaction between grapes and skybird, but I'd be willing to nakedly vote niccage myself if I were to iso him and find out that the accusations people are making towards him seem reasonable. I mean, would it have been better if he just went and quotes the post where someone else made a case against niccage, and then voted? that's basically what he's done, except he waited for you to ask him before he specified the reason why he voted.

Farside did the same thing with the Replace In vote. Is that situation different to you?

Fuzzy: Constantine's too busy with trying not to die to be worried about making cases.
Fuzzy, what do you think about everyone's accusations/complaints against you, saying that you're just looking at the surface of events as they happen, and not thinking too deeply about, well, anything. Does it make you want to change your play? Are you alright with how you've been playing? I mean, you've already said a lynch against you was justified.

I don't see why him as scum wouldn't, after the gambit failed and he sees pushes against him, come to the thread to and make the post in question to decrease how threatening he seems to be.

Now, in regards to the way you see the situation...i don't feel our PT was especially hostile while the bins slot was there. Before he started threatening us, trench wanted to sort him, so we could know if we could proceed discussing things freely in there. Drixx wanted to lynch the slot for invading our pt, and then threatening it, and I wanted to talk to them and see what was going on. Tunnel wasn't there much at all, and didn't even really seem to respond to their presence i the pt when he first posted. Tunnel only really seemed to acknowledge constantine when he reacted to titus' decision to push their slot and talk about getting them lynched by threatening us, in spite of a previously declared town read on all of us.

So...I get what you're saying, and I guess maybe he could have felt more threatened than he should have(I don't know how much experience he has with any of the players involved in that PT) but it really wasn't very threatening at all.

RE: Farside...without looking at the situation, i'm going to tentatively say yes, it was likely the same, but I need to look at the cases, and I'm about to clock out. I'll be back shortly.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm seeing a lot of blah, blah and blah with agreements.

I typically see town fight with town while scum lie back.

But yeah I would rather have focus and working together then the arguments

Hello, everyone, especially Farside! <3 <3 <3

I'm still in the process of reading. Also, I've only watched three or four of the episodes of Steven Universe, but it's SOOOOO CUTE

If there's something I need to do right away, please let me know because I haven't gotten to the end yet.

The game is unstable with lots of infighting going on.

I believe the following players are town

Maxwell
Vezo
Ric
Skybird
Titus hydra
Frogger

Leaning town
Hermit
Rational

The rest are null or scum reads.
Scum reads are more towards
Replace in
Grapes
SonicX

Just curious, which is it? Are we blah blah blahing about thing we agree on or are we arguing a bunch? or did you just mena to say it was blah blah blah with arguments? I'm thinking that's what you meant, but there was some agreement and non argument discussion in the last page or so, so I have to ask for clarification.

Bookitty, you don't need to vote for replace in. I mean, you can, if you like ,the slot is basically shit so far. So, let's think of major events

1) Beer and Vezok had a PT, beer was trolling, vezok took it seriously and thought it was a scum slip, after much discussion the topic was dropped, then beer was brought up as a lynch option again at the end of the day, and ended up being lynched, and was town.
2) Sonic attempted to use a purported gladiate on frogger at the end of the day yesterday, but was ninja'd by a locking vote. He then attempted to use said gladiate on the slot today, and nothing happens, but he claims his shot was expended. Frogger then claimed ascetic.
3)St. Constantines slot(which was occupied by bins at the time) invaded the large PT formed by Tunnel Warriors, Trenchcoat Warfare, and ourselves, some drama happened and bins replaced out, and during said drama bins informed our group that they had a power which could wipe out all our powers. Some members of our PT viewed that as a threat, and moved to lynch the slot. St. Constantine replaced in, said he townread us, some members of the PT didn't trust him, and continued to push to lynch him. He threatened to use the power to wipe our powers, and tunnel warriors claimed vig and threatened to shoot him. Escalating arguments occurred, and spilled out into the thread here. In the end, constantine did not use his power, and Ricastle shot Tunnel Warriors because he did not believe the town had two day vigs, and so assumed tunnel must have been scum.

Any other major events anybody else can think of?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hi. We should have some more conversation about something. I've just been kinda floating through the game, asking questions of people, without really chatting with Drixx much, so I want some interaction. :p D1 was fun, with people thinking I was all scummy and stuff. This is a lot less entertaining. Hmph. And yes, this is a total useless post, but I just like it when I go to look at all my posts, and I see I'm the person who's spoken most recently in all of them. It makes me feel like I"m definitely participating.

I would like to chat with people about something other than the whole constantine thing.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hey Sonic, is your desire to be targeted by things from those who townread you still true, or do you no longer wish to be targeted? Also, I don't think either you or Frogger are scum. Also, are you a gem or other, I asked you this before, and you haven't been around to answer. Kinda curious what the light prism is classified as in this game.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah still target me with night actions and stuff. If you don't know who to target just target me yolo


I'm other

Interesting. Okay, so there are more possible scum in the game than just frogger. Who else is at the top of your list, if frogger isn't an option for today?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Cheetory6 : town
MaxwellPuckett: lean scum
Ra9in9 Bull (Hydra; fro99er & ika)*
Sonic X (Hydra; Metal Sonic & ZZZX): wants to be targeted with night actions
TunnelWarriors (Hydra; DoctorPepper & wgeurts)
vezokpiraka: double voter, town
Trench Warfare (Hydra; Titus & T S O)
CooLDoG
grapes
Beer
Replace in: super awesome town.
NicCage*
farside22: treestump, lean town
Reasonably Rational (Hydra; Drixx and Cerberus v666): town
Mastin2: voteless, town, female
Ricastle
Fluminator
Thefuzzylogic99
Skybird
Bins: lean town, do not ally
Marquis

I made it to the end of page 10. Taking a break now. More to follow, hopefully today.
The above is my reads list up to now. I'll continue working this list until I'm all caught up.

I find myself disagreeing with most of my predecessors reads. That's annoying.
the situation about Beer claiming scum was only commented on by very few people. Note to self.

Cheetory6 : town
MaxwellPuckett: lean scum
Ra9in9 Bull (Hydra; fro99er & ika)*
Sonic X (Hydra; Metal Sonic & ZZZX): wants to be targeted with night actions, town
TunnelWarriors (Hydra; DoctorPepper & wgeurts): allying power guy, town
vezokpiraka: double voter, town
Trench Warfare (Hydra; Titus & T S O): town
CooLDoG: null, rolefishes my slot.
grapes: double voter, lean town. wall posts are not inviting to read.
Beer: scum
Replace in: super awesome town.
NicCage*
farside22: treestump, lean town
Reasonably Rational (Hydra; Drixx and Cerberus v666): town
Mastin2: voteless, town, female
Ricastle: scum
Fluminator
Thefuzzylogic99: scum
Skybird: scum
Bins: lean town, do not ally
Marquis lean town

finished page 30. This is taking longer than I thought

Cheetory6 : town
MaxwellPuckett: lean scum
Ra9in9 Bull (Hydra; fro99er & ika)*
Sonic X (Hydra; Metal Sonic & ZZZX): wants to be targeted with night actions, town
TunnelWarriors (Hydra; DoctorPepper & wgeurts): allying power guy, town
vezokpiraka: double voter, town
Trench Warfare (Hydra; Titus & T S O): town
CooLDoG: null, rolefishes my slot.
grapes: double voter, lean town. wall posts are not inviting to read.
Beer: scum
Replace in: super awesome town.
NicCage*: lean scum, but turns around the beer wagon. Might change to town if beer is scum.
farside22: treestump, lean town
Reasonably Rational (Hydra; Drixx and Cerberus v666): town
Mastin2: voteless, town, female
Ricastle: scum
Fluminator
Thefuzzylogic99: scum
Skybird: scum
Bins: lean town, do not ally
Marquis: town

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I may have skimmed the last 10 pages and all of Grapes wall posts. Oh well.

@Fuzzy:
-Vezo is town because of how he pushed for a beer lynch and got frustrated that he got so little response. His general play is also pretty good.
-the alignment of the doublevoters is something to be determined. I don't believe it's 1 scum/1 town if that's what you're implying. My read on grapes is close to null, as I've skimmed most of his posts. I have seen some town-motivated content somewhere though. So slightly town I suppose.
-Bins might not post much, but the reads are original, backed up and not just parrotting.
-I can see why there's a wagon for Radmann, but I especially dislike Ricastle's presence on it. He keeps pushing, gets off, gets back on again and starts pushing again, meanwhile derailing the Beer wagon.

Yay! I've caught up! Missing some reads I suppose. Oh well, I'll sort them later.

To be honest, I'm more in favor of a Fuzzy lynch. But I can settle for Beer.

Who wants to ally?

Hey replace in, wanna update those lists? I would like to see where your head is at and where your suspicions have gone to.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't get why Replace In is a wagon at all.

So you're saying Fuzzy has been scummier today or ? Lynchbait is a status one gets by being repeatedly mislynched. He can't be less lynchbait today.

~Titus

What contribution has that slot made to the game? Radmann had a 14 post iso, and didn't have much content, at least nothing that stood out to me. Replace In has a 27 post iso, including those 3 reads lists as he proceeded, but those reads lists are lacking in *reasons* behind the reads, and they don't show any reads changing over time as he reads through the thread. That feels fake.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

RR written a post about how Constantine is not scum. What do you think about that?

I've read through his case and it's his opinion that the slot is town. The problem is he can't see scum doing the things Hermit did but he also can't see town doing those things. So RR feels that the slot is town. I feel the slot is scum.

Do not attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity. I feel the slot was played poorly for town, and that scum would have taken the extra effort required to not play the slot terribly.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

She brings up a prior game where ascetic was scum and thinks he might have scum slipped in one post.

No, that's not it at all. I think that the way Frogger went about claiming Ascetic was extremely sketchy, and that the whole Sonic-Frogger interactions massively go into Sonic's favor, not Frogger's. There's a strong precedence for the game having a mafia ascetic and a town gladiator, too, because--and this is something I just now remembered--that micro I mentioned with the gladiator and the mafia ascetic?

Varsoon, OUR MODERATOR, was a player in it!

(The scumbuddy of the ascetic, more specifically.)

I have a question. I've been here for a year but have only recently ran into an ascetic role in another game. I don't know what the mafia theory is for claiming ascetic. Do you feel his claim is sketchy because he didn't claim until the gladiate failed? As town, why would you claim day 1?

p-edit: I agree with you on the Replace in wagon.

You claim ascetic day 1 because it prevents the town from wasting investigations etc on you.

[Reasonably Rational]

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

VOTE: Hermit

^scum approving of a wagon, but not voting.

I claim Lion again.

Blatant pushing on the only viable counterwagon. I think that's null, but i wish it were scummy.

I don't really like either the replace or hermit wagons, which really sucks because that's all we've got going on today. We're at what, 5/4 replace/hermit? Ugh. I haven't really been thinking about this game very much, and for that I'm sorry. I'll try to get something more going on than just a couple conversations that probably did a lot more for others figuring me out, than they did for me figuring out the game...and i'd really like to prefer to be figuring out the game. I don't mind if people figure me out, but it's more fun to find scum than become obvtown to people.

Moderately boring day at work, so open invitation to pick my brain over stuff over the next 7 hours.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

If I were scum, my claim of Greg would have to be a fakeclaim. But it has been proven that my ability is activated by uttering a phrase directly associated with Greg, and not, if I were scum, my real character. Unless you'd like to argue that it's probable for fakeclaims to be detailed and the real scum roles to be no more than names, I am conftown.

I think you're town, because your vig shot usage is shitty if you're scum. That's basically it.

The flavor stuff is all BS. For all we know the only relevant part of your power usage was bolding a targets name in a line that isn't a vote, and the rest was part of the support for your fake claim. Or perhaps you're simply not an idiot, and knew from seeing froggers gladiate attempt that some abilities seem to have associated triggers, and you decided to find an appropriate one based on the flavor of the fake claim.

All that's irrelevant though. I'm like 95% you're town(Drixx isn't the same, but he's busy so only my opinion matters), I just wanted to point out that your argument was bad. Or at least, it's superficially good, but ONLY superficially.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Sonic's Gladiate attempt on Frogger. Sorry. Mixed up some words in there.

-Cerb

pedit: I like having a little wiggle room so I can salvage my ego if I'm wrong.

[Reasonably Rational]

Skybird: Sorry about that, minor crisis arose at work and my day wasn't as free as I expected it to be. In regards to CoolDog, I remember in conversation Drixx and I had about his slot Drixx and I were both feeling scum vibes from him, and when I went to the thread to read his posts then I said I felt like it was because he was just "taking the opportunity to snipe at sonic, and just parroting the thoughts others had." However...upon skimming his iso, it isn't immediately apparent whose thoughts I thought he was parroting/what led me to that conclusion. I need to look at things in context to see what Me of several days ago saw about him and why i thought his behavior was scummy.

Mastin, Sonic: No, we are not lynching Frogger today. Frogger v Sonic screams TvT, how do you not see that? I'm making an assumption here, but if sonic wasn't lying about his gladiate increasing the time we had before lynch, his gladiate attempt itself, both today and yesterday, isn't scummy, and without that I just don't see scum in him. Frogger there isn't even anything there to think it scummy, beyond the lurking D1 while he was hydraing, which has been explained by Frogger to my satisfaction at least.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

VOTE: Replace In

Was considering starting a vanity wagon on CoolDog, but of course he has to post right this moment and now I need to reevaluate.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR, I could join Cooldog tomorrow. That last post by him was terrible. He says Ricastle has gone under the radar, yet you made a big deal on pushing him before we combined wagons to get a lynch. He chasizes me for not putting the lynch I want, despite me sitting on Constantine more than any other player did. While chastising me, he says he could "go for" the very wagon I am compromising to. He chastises Ricastle for going for the popular wagon, but in the same post says he could go for it.

That last post by CoolDog was all sorts of terrible.

Hmm. Why wait? We have 40 hours, and we know the two of us at least are active enough that pushing for his lynch, if nobody else joins in, won't leave votes hanging and cause a no lynch?

VOTE: CoolDog

[Reasonably Rational]

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah how about no.

I'm open to discussion. Reasons beyond just saying no?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

This push is strategic as fuck.

I don't see it as strategic for CooLDoG to push you to save Replace In, unless both Replace In and CooLDoG are both scum.

But even in the PT with me he says he's good with lynching Replace In over Constantine so, no, RI and CooLDoG aren't both scum. He could have gone for Constantine if he wanted, so to want Replace if they were both scum makes no sense.

Unless he was worried about Constantine getting lynched and they are both scum given he knows I'm scum reading constantine...then I guess that could make sense. IDK. If that were the case he probably would have just voted Replace In instead of voting you.

I'm not sure what strategy he's referring to, and neither do you? He could be referring to the timing being strategic, to him seeing an opportunity to push ricastles slot, etc...it doesn't need to be a counterwagon forming push to save his teammate.

Anyways, beyond the commentary on Ricastles use of the word strategic, what do you think of cooldog?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fro99er: Hmm. I'll be honest, in all the noise sonic was making about you being scum, I kinda missed your opinion on sonics slot. Do you think he's scum?

Oh, and CoolDog: you're right, bad scum can win games too, that's true. It's generally safer, though, to assume your enemies are competent, so you aren't surprised by something clever and effective. Something stupid and effective is generally less threatening than clever and effective...since clever and effective will get them to endgame with a handpicked set of players, and stupid and effective will let them skate until end game, at which point their terrible play gets them lynched.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fro99er: Hmm. I'll be honest, in all the noise sonic was making about you being scum, I kinda missed your opinion on sonics slot. Do you think he's scum?

You're joking, right?

Touche. Skimmed your ISO, pretty obvious where you stand. Sorry about that. I'll just say here what I said in our alliance PT: Drixx is effectively V/LA from this game for personal reasons, and without him to discuss things with my investment level has gone way down, so I'm just reading along and not analyzing much at all. That's why you see me referring back to my reads and discussion I had from when I was actively invested, in responding to Skybirds query regarding Cooldog. Again, sorry. i'm aware of the general flow of things, but I could very well be missing out on a lot of nuances/specifics about certain people, that I'll only pick up on when i choose to look at and then ISO them.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hm. Cooldog, why did you say that you felt Beer's role was a scum aligned one, and then act like you had no idea why the beer wagon happened the next day? You also said you had no understanding of the case against beer shortly after you first entered the thread, even though it was pretty obvious the case was beer claiming scum(which turned out to be him trolling or something) in his PT with vezok. I don't like the attempt to distance yourself from that wagon. Maybe this is a mountains from molehills thing. Not sure. I agree with the issues with your recent post as well though, so...hmm.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Frogger v Sonic screams TvT, how do you not see that?

How do you not see that Frogger isn't town? It's townVscum, SonicVFrogger. And now I get to turn around and flip the point in Frogger's defense against him:

you're saying this generic thing about Frogger being town, without backing up why.

(The irony!)

Skybird: Sorry about that, minor crisis arose at work and my day wasn't as free as I expected it to be. In regards to CoolDog, I remember in conversation Drixx and I had about his slot Drixx and I were both feeling scum vibes from him, and when I went to the thread to read his posts then I said I felt like it was because he was just "taking the opportunity to snipe at sonic, and just parroting the thoughts others had." However...upon skimming his iso, it isn't immediately apparent whose thoughts I thought he was parroting/what led me to that conclusion. I need to look at things in context to see what Me of several days ago saw about him and why i thought his behavior was scummy.

Mastin, Sonic: No, we are not lynching Frogger today. Frogger v Sonic screams TvT, how do you not see that? I'm making an assumption here, but if sonic wasn't lying about his gladiate increasing the time we had before lynch, his gladiate attempt itself, both today and yesterday, isn't scummy, and without that I just don't see scum in him.

Frogger there isn't even anything there to think it scummy, beyond the lurking D1 while he was hydraing, which has been explained by Frogger to my satisfaction at least.

-Cerb

Which, I will freely admit, isn't an exhaustive case for town as I displayed for say, Ricastle and Constantine, but, Fro99er also hasn't *done* anything. It is, however, more than just the "nothing" you're pretending I said by taking my quote out of context. Is Frogger good at this game? I think the consensus is yes, Frogger is at the least competent, Would scum ascetic frogger not tell town he was ascetic, so that way he gets to be a PL for not sharing that information earlier in the game? no, i don't think he would. I just don't see scum motivation or thoughts in his play. I don't see inconsistency, or bad logic, or anything I can point to as a reason to think his slot is scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Lol hm.

Hey Mastin, when you get back, why do you feel that Maxwell is scum?

edit: Still, why wouldn't frogger claim ascetic right away? Since he had already mentioned he was bp I just don't see why he would let sonic flail about when he actually should have know the reason for why the gladiate failed.

I believe he did say he knew the reason, right after sonic went crazy about wasting his shot. Basically, as soon as he had reason to believe an actual shot was used on him, and it wasn't just a gambit by sonic, he fessed up. I could have the exact timeline wrong though, but I do believe it wasn't very long afterwards.

You let someone flail like that to get more information about them, that's simple enough.

Actually, when you say why wouldn't he claim ascetic right away, are you talking about why didn't he claim D1, or why didn't he claim immediately after sonic's attempted gladiate? In the first case, i don't know hwy he wouldn't claim ascetic right away, but I do know that it would be worse to not claim ascetic as scum than it would be as town, since not claiming it immediately draws suspicion onto you, which scum don't want to have.

I had forgotten about the bulletproof thing though. That's...interesting. BP+Ascetic=untargetable, unshootable....i don't know how I feel about that. Makes me even happier to have the chance to sort him in a PT tomorrow. ^^

Hey Frogger, do you have an opinion on us yet? You said CoolDog was a townread yesterday, thus the willingness to ally with him. Same applies here, or are you neutral on us and just figuring it's worth it to get some more information about our slot?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Eh, that looks icky.

So you think Ika's referencing Bp, has nothing to do with your actual role?

WHAT THE FUCK NOW YOU FCUKIGN VOTE HER?

THIS IS FUCKIGN SHIT I WOUDL NTO BE SURPRISED IF THIS IS LIEM HU2 WHERE IM THE FUCKIGN BP SHIT AND SHES A FUCKED UP COP

I just kind of thought that since Ika was talking about a cop maybe they misunderstood the role or something.

No. Ika's referencing a past game where he was bp and I was an insane scum cop. He's not claiming bp here but stating roles can be fucked up.

~Titus

Come to think of it...that kinda makes sense with ascetic.

Mhm. It makes complete sense, and if he weren't drunk, I'd think it was a deliberate crumb he left for you.

CoolDog: You don't know me, at all. Don't tell me what I am or am not better than. I mean, thanks for the confidence and all, but you really can't have any expectations from my play.

I voted you before because of the reasons I gave in response to skybirds question, that my other head felt you were scummy, and that I had agreed, on D1, coupled with Trench, who is basically guaranteed town to me, calling out your post as scummy. That's why our two votes appeared on your wagon at least. It has nothing to do with who you were voting for, and everything to do with a pre-existing belief that you might be scum, which was tipped onto the level of being worthy of voting because others whose opinions I respect, who I also consider absolutely town, also believe you could be scum.


Vezok: Do you still think our slot is scummy? Just curious. You were all rawr kill them etc yesterday after the vote check thing, but haven't really had much to say about us today.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

CooLDoG you can go ahead and change the vote if you want to put it back on Ricastle or elsewhere. I want to get this vote in before it's L-2 so that I don't force you to hammer Replace.

VOTE: Replace In

I'm done waffling on him. That comment about the Constantine wagon being all scum reads (even though he was the last to join the Constantine wagon of those currently voting Constantine) is absolute BS. Why did he join a bunch of scum reads on a wagon?

Constantine is therefore probably town, and so is Cool by extension. Replace is just trying to push a mislynch wherever he can by joining whatever wagon has the most momentum at the time that is opposite his wagon (he is therefore saying the wagon on him was 100% town motivated because the three people who moved to CooLDoG wagon were voting him as well just prior...this is a huge buddy/appease attempt by Replace In...vezok is essentially conftown, Constantine then becomes town as a mislynch Replace is pushing, and farside is pretty towny).

Solid logic. Him joining the wagon makes it questionable. I still don't really buy CoolDog as certainly town,but..if replace flips scum, it does make it a lot more likely.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

BTW, I really hope he's scum. The thought of lynching Lion, who's like the best character on the show, breaks my heart.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

CoolDog's push on Ricastle was bad, but I dunno if that's scum-bad.

Oh, and CoolDog: you're right, bad scum can win games too, that's true. It's generally safer, though, to assume your enemies are competent, so you aren't surprised by something clever and effective. Something stupid and effective is generally less threatening than clever and effective...since clever and effective will get them to endgame with a handpicked set of players, and stupid and effective will let them skate until end game, at which point their terrible play gets them lynched.

-Cerb

Rational, are you in this case deciding to assume that CoolDog is competent scum, or not competent scum? You said you were scumreading them before their Ricastle post, how has that read changed from that post? Is it the same, or are you now more confident?

Trench, and Rational, what do you believe he was trying to accomplish with his Ricastle push, then?

I'll be honest, it's baffling to me. Before, I had him as a scum read, and after his post, I'm at pretty much the same point. Not way more suspicious of him or anything, but he's still a scum read. You bring up an awesome point though, about the assumption of incompetence on his part. Play doesn't make sense. He's not stupid, he wouldn't make the play. I'll have to think about this more.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Cerb: That's kind of how I've been going through this game. CoolDog's push, while it could be scum trying to push some sort of agenda, just seems badly thought out. If CoolDog was looking for a way to earn towncred, there are way, way better ways to go about it than by attacking Ricastle. If they need Ricastle dead for something, it should be obvious that lynching is not the way they should go, with how the game is going. Finally, I don't think it's scum distancing, because Ricastle is town.

I don't think scum do things without a reason. Even when their actions make no sense, they usually at least have some kind of goal in mind, that makes sense to them. I can't see a reason for a fake push on Ricastle, of all people, so I can only assume that the push is genuine. Whether they actually think they have something on Ricastle, or they're scum who THINKS they have something on Ricastle, I can't say. But I don't think a bad push = scum. Cerb, why were you scumreading CoolDog previously, anyway?

Umm, that's the hard part to explain. It was more gut feeling than I like, so, not really enough to move on for me generally, except Drixx felt the same way even before I did. There...was a sense in his posts that I gathered of him taking opportunistic snipes at sonic, and of not really adding much analysis of things in his posts, just kinda quoting them and maybe not so meaningful points...but, when I went to reread his iso today(which is what made me bring up those points about the stuff he had said about beer's role), I didn't really have that same sense from his posts. So, still have a scumlean/scumread on him, but I really don't have the sort of things I usually want to point to and say "Look, this is why he's scum!"


-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

CoolDog: I don't think Skybird ever actually said you were scum(though they implied it), they just wanted to talk to me about you.

Is voting for a wagon that you believe is scummy and is more likely to reach lynch than another scummy close to deadline?
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

So, who is currently allying?

Trench with Ricastle
RR with Fro99er

That's all I have as certain right now.

[Reasonably Rational]

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Unallied

Cheetory6
Ra9in9 Bull (Hydra; fro99er & ika)*
Sonic X (Hydra; Metal Sonic & ZZZX)
CooLDoG
Beer
Replace in radmann9
Mastin2
Thefuzzylogic99
Bins
Marquis

Allies:
Reasonably Rational/Trench Warfare/Tunnel Warriors
Ricastle/NicCage
Fluminator/Grapes
Skybird/Maxwell
vezokpiraka/farside22

Let me know if I got anything wrong there.

Also, I just realized that farside has never even attempted to vote. I mean, considering we currently have a player in the game who doesn't count, that kinda sort confirms their claim right? So I shouldn't be concerned about it right?

-Cerb

The above was yesterday.

CoolDog/Fro99er happened
Marquis/Cheetory died, and would have had to ally the same person and thus revealed their connection, so it makes sense they didn't ally with anyone. Beer was lynched. Bins/Constantine forced their way into our alliance.


Sonic X (Hydra; Metal Sonic & ZZZX)
Replace in radmann9
Mastin2
Thefuzzylogic99

Allies:
Reasonably Rational/Trench Warfare/Tunnel Warriors/Bins
Ricastle/NicCage
Fluminator/Grapes
Skybird/Maxwell
vezokpiraka/farside22
CoolDog/Fro99er

Sonic, replace, mastin, fuzzy: None of them were/are in an alliance correct?

Assuming replace gets lynched, we have Sonic, mastin, fuzzy, cooldog, and NicCage who don't currently have partners, if all existing alliances(except for the RR/Trench one, which has already broken up and picked new partners) decide to continue.

And yes Skybird, this is more IioA

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

if you lynch scum right, even with the worst reasons you are not an idiot.

if you lynch town wrong, even with the best of reasons, there will remain a trace of idiocy

Cooldog has literally no reasons though. That's the point.

That's the point Maxwell was making though. Why would scum make such a shitty and conspicuous push on you? It's..just...horrendous. Are they just really really bad at this?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Cooldog, we have time to lynch you tomorrow. Rage on dude!

and I don't really care that much about this game. No one actually seems interested in it, otherwise there wouldn't be 100 pages of nothing.

I loathe that attitude. Replace the fuck out if you're not going to care about the game. I don't care what your alignment is, but don't shit all over the work the other players and especially the mod put into the game by just not caring about it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

[deleted for length control]

The above was yesterday.

CoolDog/Fro99er happened

Marquis/Cheetory died, and would have had to ally the same person and thus revealed their connection, so it makes sense they didn't ally with anyone.

Beer was lynched. Bins/Constantine forced their way into our alliance.


Sonic X (Hydra; Metal Sonic & ZZZX)
Replace in radmann9
Mastin2
Thefuzzylogic99

Allies:
Reasonably Rational/Trench Warfare/Tunnel Warriors/Bins
Ricastle/NicCage
Fluminator/Grapes
Skybird/Maxwell
vezokpiraka/farside22
CoolDog/Fro99er

Sonic, replace, mastin, fuzzy: None of them were/are in an alliance correct?

Assuming replace gets lynched, we have Sonic, mastin, fuzzy, cooldog, and NicCage who don't currently have partners, if all existing alliances(except for the RR/Trench one, which has already broken up and picked new partners) decide to continue.

And yes Skybird, this is more IioA

-Cerb

Actually, Marquis and Sonic X were going to ally.

But we know what happened N1.

Cooldog, we have time to lynch you tomorrow. Rage on dude!

and I don't really care that much about this game. No one actually seems interested in it, otherwise there wouldn't be 100 pages of nothing.

I loathe that attitude. Replace the fuck out if you're not going to care about the game. I don't care what your alignment is, but don't shit all over the work the other players and especially the mod put into the game by just not caring about it.

-Cerb

What he said. ^

Really? That would seem to indicate a fairly strong townread on Sonic on the part of those two players. Duly noted.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hey mastin, any reads beyond frogger before the night sets in? While you're possibly actively on the site doing stuff?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hmm. I wouldn't be too concerned about mastin2 whole not confirmed yet thing she's posted. It could easily be something she has to trigger.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hmm. I wouldn't be too concerned about mastin2 whole not confirmed yet thing she's posted. It could easily be something she has to trigger.

-Cerb

Wow, that was mangled. Anyways replace (kinda obviously) and skybird (not so obviously) were town. What does that tell us? Anything jump out at anybody as to a potential reason why skybird was killed?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fro99er is probably telling the truth. Hopefully more to say when he shows up and answers a couple questions.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, and everyone voting Mastin because she hasn't conftowned yet, you all just gained a ton of scum points. What we've seen is people have abilities they trigger by saying things in the thread. In order to conftown today, as she claimed, it seems reasonable that she has to say something in the thread, which I suspect will be some kind of quote from the show.

Mastin has a permanent V/LA on weekends and it's a weekend.

Trying to flashwagon her when you know she's not here and you have evidence that whatever she referred to on day probably has to be triggered by her ... that's about as scummy as it gets.

And nobody gets to give any "I/We are just trying to pressure her to do whatever it is" bullshit excuses, because it's in her signature that she's V/LA on the weekend so obviously you cannot put pressure on someone who is literally not here and won't be here even one nanosecond sooner no matter what anyone in this game says or does.

Any of you who are town, shame on you. Scum ... GDIAF (in game, not in real life ... ridiculous I have to say this but if I didn't someone would pretend they legitimately thought I meant in real life).


Love, even though you guys are being irrational,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

why would you think town would fake claim being confirmed day 3?

Sounds like a great way to avoid being lynched early ;p

But it's an even better way to guarantee getting lynched D3..

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Seriously? 6 votes on frogger within 8 hours of the day starting? You're idiots. You're making absurd assumptions about what must nad must not be included in a role pm.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hmm. Let me rephrase. You aren't idiots. What you are doing is idiotic. There.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well sure, the other votes might be based on better reasons, but ugh. That many votes that quickly is a bit much. I understand it's(I think) largely people who were voting for him yesterday, just continuing their votes today...but there's nothing to be gained for town in ending the day this quickly at this point.

-Cerb

pedit: Are you saying that frogger likely isn't a gem, because he doesn't have an ability limited to fusions?

[Reasonably Rational]

OH, sorry Maxwell, that was directed at farside, not you.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

fro99er is a Gem, currently in a fusion with us. Since it's a fusion, I can

confirm

his claimed gem status is not fake. Obviously a cursory examination of the show wiki will show that not all gems are good gems, but the primary reason people are voting him is completely destroyed now. I expect the five people who were super lazy and jumped on that wagon to now get the fuck off it or do the work to make a case that isn't "he's lying because he should have some power he hasn't claimed if he were a gem". He's a gem. Deal with it.

Mastin actually has a surprisingly rational reason to have claimed what she did at the start of the game. We are aware of that reason and I'm waiting for Cerberus before we decide how to proceed. Putting votes on her isn't going to speed up the way she gets confirmed, because it isn't completely in her hands.

Finally ... having been in that alliance with Trench Warfare allows me to say that TW is probably town, for several reasons.

More to come later ...

please stop with the silly super fast wagons that aren't doing anything helpful. Don't be lemmings and drive us off a cliff.

Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

fro99er is a Gem, currently in a fusion with us. Since it's a fusion, I can confirm his claimed gem status is not fake. Obviously a cursory examination of the show wiki will show that not all gems are good gems, but the primary reason people are voting him is completely destroyed now.

this is dumb. why would frogger fakeclaim his race even if scum? you make it seem as if we are voting him because he lied about being gem.

no.

we are voting him because he lied about being town.

Oh really? Please do walk me through the evidence of that. I had to catch up on part of Episode 2 because of unfortunate things in RL, but I think I'd have caught it if there was a cop guilty or some other proof that he lied about being town.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Sonic X, please sign your posts so I know who I'm talking to.

I asked, quite clearly, for the case against Fro99er. I've got a PT where I can grill him, but I don't know what the actual case is, because you won't say. When I caught up, I saw people speculating that his claim was false because of no stated fusion activated ability, so I confirmed he is a gem because only gems fuse, and I'm in a fusion with him.

Please ... just lay out the case. Ideally with some post links (or quotes if you have the time). I just don't see the case and I want to know what the case is given that I can grill him to my heart's content in the PT and get a read of my own.

@Everyone

- I am leaning towards believing that Mastin is town. I know why she said what she did on day one and I know how she becomes confirmed. I'm waiting to talk to Cerberus before deciding how to proceed. I would say it's probably 85% chance she was honest and is town, and made a reasonable assumption that ended up not being quite what she expected, and a 15% chance, at most, that she's running a gambit. I am not quite at the point where I can unequivocally say that she's town, but it's close.


Love, and Cupcakes,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Thank you. I will read and digest, discuss with Cerb and then talk to Fro99er in our fusion. While he will be on alert for us trying to read him, we have some approaches that may work to make us believe he's scum pretty firmly, depending on how co-operative he is and how he answers our questions. Obviously we'll report which way we're convinced.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Sonic X, please sign your posts so I know who I'm talking to.

I asked, quite clearly, for the case against Fro99er. I've got a PT where I can grill him, but I don't know what the actual case is, because you won't say. When I caught up, I saw people speculating that his claim was false because of no stated fusion activated ability, so I confirmed he is a gem because only gems fuse, and I'm in a fusion with him.

Please ... just lay out the case. Ideally with some post links (or quotes if you have the time). I just don't see the case and I want to know what the case is given that I can grill him to my heart's content in the PT and get a read of my own.

@Everyone

- I am leaning towards believing that Mastin is town. I know why she said what she did on day one and I know how she becomes confirmed. I'm waiting to talk to Cerberus before deciding how to proceed. I would say it's probably 85% chance she was honest and is town, and made a reasonable assumption that ended up not being quite what she expected, and a 15% chance, at most, that she's running a gambit. I am not quite at the point where I can unequivocally say that she's town, but it's close.


Love, and Cupcakes,
Drixx

That's like work man. What's your read on him anyhow?

Null lean scum at the moment. He needs to start talking to us in our fusion PT, and soon, or that's going to quickly move into lean scum and then strong lean scum just because if he was town he should be willing to talk to us and answer questions and so far it's crickets. It hasn't been a super long time yet though.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Hey TW, how are you and Ricastle doing? Having a productive discussion?

Ricastle: Would your shot have gone away if you still had it when we entered LYLO?

-Cerb

pedit: UNVOTE: , that should handle keeping fro99ers vote as just his vote.

Oh, and yeah, unless I'm missing something, Mastins mod meta case is shit, and so is sonics scum meta(because the things sonic pointed to as being scum meta are SUPER weak even if they were true...which I don't think they are, but I don't know fro99ers personality that well, so maybe he is being 'dodgy').

That doesn't make sonic scum by itself imo, unless he's deliberately misrepresenting fro99ers scum meta.

[Reasonably Rational]

VOTE: Trench Warfare

They just claimed the Lighthouse Gem Monster in our alliance. Let's go.

Umm no. Let's not. I'm starting to feel the only claims which *might* confirm alignment someone as scum are jasper, peridot, and yellow diamond.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

EBWOP: "confirm someones alignment as scum"

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

VOTE: Trench Warfare

They just claimed the Lighthouse Gem Monster in our alliance. Let's go.

We have to lynch frogger today my man

That's also likely a bad idea. The cases are all terrible. Give me a reason to lynch frogger that isn't absolute shit and I'll think about it.

-Cerb