Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)
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Sir Bastion lacks logic everyone knows 24 + 0 = 25.
Anyways sorry for showing up late everyone I have been really really busy, I just didn't have a chance to post yet, don't hold it against me please I am just a little late that's all and I am very very sorry but you know how it is; can't post at work and then when you get home gotta make a cup of tea but then realise there are no biscuits left and can't have tea without biscuits so you have to run out to buy some. So, yeah, sorry I missed the opening of this game please don't think I am scum because I didn't show up immediately I really truly am sorry for not getting here first.
VOTE: toolenduso-
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It doesn't make sense to apologise giving your lifestory to explain why you didn't post earlier when you post on the first page and on the first rl day of the game.In post 60, Thor665 wrote:
And this is a scumtell...how again?In post 53, Slandaar wrote:Anyways sorry for showing up late everyone I have been really really busy,
Because zakk's logic is bad, and now you're sheeping it, so I want to hear your reasoning.
He is apologising for nothing which makes no sense from town; hes scum who is nervous.-
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UghIn post 75, Thor665 wrote: Or...and run with me on this one...
Really?In post 75, Thor665 wrote: It's his first game after a 6 year hiatus and his last game ended with him voting himself and disappearing.
Maybe he's just amped up?
Amped up is more excitement and ready to go type thing; that wasn't excitement it was more a betrayal of not wanting to be perceived of doing something wrong which is scummy because he had not done anything wrong if he were town he wouldn't feel he had done anything wrong and thus doesn't apologise for not posting.
Nervous maybe the wrong word; he was worried of being perceived badly and yes there is reason for scum to be more likely to think like that.In post 75, Thor665 wrote: Because there is no reason for a scum to be any more or less nervous than a town in that particular situation.
Overexplaining.In post 75, Thor665 wrote: What do you think of his interactions with Bastion on Page 2? Are you telling me that he is a nervous and Mr. Magoo-type scum player in that conversation and faking it all since he's so nervous as to do your other tell?
Also, a read on Bastion would be nice.
Undecided. I don't care for the bussing stuff.
Lets look into this post;
OK? I don't see what this has to do with anything at all. This is technically true but it doesn't mean bussing doesn't happen.In post 33, toolenduso wrote: What I'm saying is, at this stage in the game there's very little logical reasoning a mafia could give to bus their partner.
Uh nope you don't it happens all the time people can think someone is bussing at any point they like. The question is why they think that.In post 33, toolenduso wrote: So I think you'd have to see something pretty convincing at this stage in the game to think something is bussing. Otherwise, you could say any post of one person voting for another was bussing.
And so we get to the 'point'. Why did it look like bussing? That is literally all this post needed to be.In post 33, toolenduso wrote: Unless I'm missing something. Why did you think it looked like bussing, outside of the fact that one voted for the other?
That is some serious overexplaining (to look town).
Then Bastion gives a fairly bland response and everything is dropped it seems.-
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Sure.In post 91, Thor665 wrote: Justify this a bit, pl0x? I am not a fan.
Do a line by line breakdown of what is wrong with my post in regards to overexplaining.
Now let us figure this out; You know we don't agree on anything so instead of letting me do what I do and catch the scum you are trying to come after me for posting something you think is wrong well that is what you should expect to happen when I am town.
I could bring up everything you have posted I don't agree with but I don't; why? because its pointless to argue it as I know I won't agree with you it's just how it is.
In short: You are being very superficial.
What do you think is my biggest scumtell? list a few if you like.-
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Oh?In post 117, Thor665 wrote:
I already did.In post 114, Slandaar wrote:Do a line by line breakdown of what is wrong with my post in regards to overexplaining.
1. Missing the point (Misunderstanding/repping me)In post 91, Thor665 wrote: 1. Agreeing with him
2. Misunderstanding/repping him.
3. Complaining that he didn't ask the question succinctly...when he did, all he did was add in why he holds the belief he does.
2. Your opinion but how is this related to overexplaining as you have suggested?
3.You know I think scum can scumslip I think this because they have knowledge town do not and thus they can occasionally slip that information in their posts and then we can catch them because they have released information that they could only have as scum.(assuming X said something and the question is aimed at X)
Why do you think that?
Not succinctly. Overexplaining is a scumtell.
We have had this exact 'debate' before and I was right so what are you trying to accomplish Thor?
I knew what you were suggesting. Mine isn't is the answer.In post 117, Thor665 wrote: Actually I was pointing out how you were being hypocritical and asking you to justify how the over explanation you did is fine and his is scummy.
What? The question had nothing to do with scumhunting methods.In post 117, Thor665 wrote: Currently I have 'over explaining things' and 'acting nervous'
But I don't recall claiming that I had brilliant insight into your scumhunting methods.
Simple version;In post 117, Thor665 wrote: Is this an awkward straw man, or is it going somewhere wherein you'll explain how it's uncool of me to question someone's scumhunting that I don't agree with?
Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.
During game Thor tries to argue my logic is scummy.
Doesn't make sense, I expect if you were town you would have tried alternative methods like seeing if I lurk hard or not, but instead you went the superficial way of arguing logic which is ultimately pointless and not actually going to get you a read that is useful because it always ends the same way. Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct and it is just a ridiculous strategy from a TownThor plus its always to do with how things are worded so at a minimum a TownThor should have at least tweaked a little.
How can someone expect to read me with a method which is proven not to work?
Thor is fake scumhunting.
VOTE: Thor
Good luck explaining this away Thorsy.-
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In post 142, Thor665 wrote: How did I misrep that you agreed with him? Because that is what your point said there.
This is technically true means; yes its hard for scum to give a logical reason to bus early because most of the time it would just be on the back of an RVS vote etc.In post 88, Slandaar wrote:
OK? I don't see what this has to do with anything at all. This is technically true but it doesn't mean bussing doesn't happen.In post 33, toolenduso wrote: What I'm saying is, at this stage in the game there's very little logical reasoning a mafia could give to bus their partner.
However
This does not mean scum do not bus during this period of the game so, it is technically true because he is focusing only on logical reasoning. Logical is not the entire spectrum and as such in reality it is not true.
So, no I did not agree with what he said. The point to all of it was its a pointless thing to post in the first place as it means nothing.
Huh? You said I overexplained it this has nothing to do with that.In post 142, Thor665 wrote: Because you're working hard to have something to say about nothing, and that's why I think you twisted it.
Uh no. My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.In post 142, Thor665 wrote: You point was still complaining that he wasn't succinct enough when the points you said should be cut were explanation of why he had his belief;
basically he did this;
The fruit is round, red, has white pulp, seeds inside, came from a tree, and has a sweet flavor with some tartness.
I believe it is an apple.
I didn't overexplain anything. I showed why his post is terrible.In post 142, Thor665 wrote: And you then said 'he's *overexplaining*, why not just say he thinks it's an apple, scummy!'
And my counter there is - why didn't you just say 'he's overexplaining' and vote him instead of doing a line by line breakdown of his post (over)explaining how his post is overexplaining?
Remind me later.In post 142, Thor665 wrote: To understand your thought process.
We also haven't had this exact debate unless the word exact has a different meaning than I know of. We may have had a similar one, but only insomuch as I have doubtless questioned your logic in the past - other than that I doubt there is any connection to a past debate.
Feel free to prove me wrong.
nothing I said was pointless for one.In post 142, Thor665 wrote: How do you define the difference?
I was looking for you to say lurking which I know you know for the below but you avoided the question is some weird way.In post 142, Thor665 wrote: Then I didn't get the point of the question.
Now that you have my answer anyway...what are you doing with it?
No, you have never actually townread me. So, the point was not I think you will never be able to scumread me by arguing logic quite the opposite.In post 142, Thor665 wrote: Only if you want to claim that I believe it is impossible to scum read you through analyzing of logic.
Because it does not work and so if you were town and wanted to get a genuine read you would actually try different methods at least for a day or two instead of beginning the wall wars straight away which as you can see are now in full swing so good job with that.In post 142, Thor665 wrote: Since I believe that is the way to read everyone and is the only type of scumhunting I do, whether or not I have received a bad read on you in the past I am unsure why I would reinvent my entire method just for you in the present.
You're welcome.In post 142, Thor665 wrote: Thank you.-
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No I didn't say this anywhere.In post 212, Thor665 wrote:Oh, wait, though he did try to explain Tools reasoning as being scummy for lacking an explanation.
Which, y'know, is the misrep.
And kind of the point.
Let us recap:
Thor posts;
3. Complaining that he didn't ask the question succinctly...when he did, all he did was add in why he holds the belief he does.
I post this example to show how the whole 'explanation' part is unneeded before the question. The question is all that matters the rest is needless and thus overexplaining.
so, Thor says this is a better example;In post 133, Slandaar wrote: 3.You know I think scum can scumslip I think this because they have knowledge town do not and thus they can occasionally slip that information in their posts and then we can catch them because they have released information that they could only have as scum.(assuming X said something and the question is aimed at X)
Why do you think that?In post 142, Thor665 wrote: The fruit is round, red, has white pulp, seeds inside, came from a tree, and has a sweet flavor with some tartness.
I believe it is an apple.
I say mine is more accurate because Thors ends with a conclusion (and by extension mine ends with a question which Tool's post does). The question was always very important in the whole issue and Thors example dropped it.In post 167, Slandaar wrote: Uh no. My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.
Its like ending Tools original post with 'I think Bastion is scum' which is clearly not what happened it ended with the question of why bastion thought it was bussing.
Now; Thor thinks this is some huge misrep? Amusing. He is scum.
I didn't say this. Clearly that was not ever the point, the point, which can be seen in the original post is that he only needed the question none of the rest.In post 212, Thor665 wrote: i fhe thought the overexplanation was scummy only because it lacked an explanation...
Thor requires the noose.-
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OKIn post 188, Sir Bastion wrote:
You practically begged him to do so.Slandaar wrote:Sure.
Do a line by line breakdown of what is wrong with my post in regards to overexplaining.
Now let us figure this out; You know we don't agree on anything so instead of letting me do what I do and catch the scum you are trying to come after me for posting something you think is wrong well that is what you should expect to happen when I am town.
I could bring up everything you have posted I don't agree with but I don't; why? because its pointless to argue it as I know I won't agree with you it's just how it is.
In short: You are being very superficial.
What do you think is my biggest scumtell? list a few if you like.
You vote for him for fake scumhunting, but as far as I can tell you have intentionally started a wallpost fight and pulled him away from scumhunting.
Bolded 1: Uh not really. I knew he couldn't do it that is kind of why you challenge people to do things in this context.
Bolded 2: I expected a 1-2 word answer maybe a couple more, that is surely too many words!
He initiated. I can ask you 10 questions which wouldn't constitute a wall, but your response would be; that does not mean you are the one responsible assuming wall posting is to be seen as some terrible thing.
Basically you took a small part of my case on Thor and reworded it. Good job.-
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Did anyone actually read this?In post 157, toolenduso wrote: Continued to argue that point by saying I was overexplaining things, ignoring most of the rest of the players.The argument is flimsy because my tendency to reason things out isn't as good of evidence as other things happening in the game.
The reason it is flimsy is because there are better reasons? lol
Hint of what? defensive isn't a scumtell at all.In post 157, toolenduso wrote:
2. Reacted a little defensively when pressed about his arguments.
Asserts his ability (which is apparently very good, as he said in the quotes I pulled for my fourth point) to scum hunt is being hindered, asserts he is town (which has no value) and calls Thor superficial. It's a little defensive, but it's not like he's blowing up about it. Just a little hint, not the main part of my argument.
Well context is required here; Specifically Thor and I arguing logic is pointless. There is more than logic to find scum though for example behavioural patterns.In post 157, toolenduso wrote: 3. Goes all Sextus Empiricus on us by saying there's no value in argument.
In post 114, Slandaar wrote:I could bring up everything you have posted I don't agree with but I don't; why? because its pointless to argue it as I know I won't agree with you it's just how it is.
tl;dr -- arguing logic is pointless. Except the function of voting in this game is based on logic. You vote for people because you have a reason to. This argument against argument is, I believe, his support for his next claim, which I go over in my fourth point.In post 133, Slandaar wrote: Simple version;
Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.
During game Thor tries to argue my logic is scummy.
Doesn't make sense, I expect if you were town you would have tried alternative methods like seeing if I lurk hard or not, but instead you went the superficial way of arguing logic which is ultimately pointless and not actually going to get you a read that is useful because it always ends the same way.
Context is required again; I am talking about Thor and I's arguments not every argument I ever made on anyone.In post 157, toolenduso wrote: 4. Something I just noticed after reading some more is that Slandaar is basically just asking us to trust him because he's never wrong. Asking people to basically just follow on faith without reasoning it out themselves.
In post 133, Slandaar wrote:Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct and it is just a ridiculous strategy from a TownThor plus its always to do with how things are worded so at a minimum a TownThor should have at least tweaked a little.-
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Thor is scum therefore it is no 'dumb fight'In post 215, ICEninja wrote:I'm liking Slandaar less and less. I honestly feel like town Slandaar would have taken my advice and actually started to scum hunt, realizing he was locking horns in a dumb fight.
???-
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In fact lets keep posting because I feel like asserting myself in this game now.
Apologising for nothing as a scumtell can be seen here;
Link
Game finished literally today.
Amazing. So, I suppose now those arguing (THOR) it isn't are going to prove that.-
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Not that it really matters but; no. It starts at 75 which is where Thor asks a bunch of questions, I respond with a wall hence the point in my example.In post 234, Sir Bastion wrote:hmmm
I dont believe in the misrep, I do think though despite his claims otherwise Slandaar has been the one that has dragged this into the end result we have:
Uh not exactly; Thor knows he won't agree with my logic. So, Thortown would see no point arguing with me as it doesn't matter my alignment disagreeing on logic is purely null and as such will go nowhere. Thortown especially wouldn't suggest my logic is scummy because he knows in fact I always post arguments like the one in question therefore his doing so makes him scum.In post 234, Sir Bastion wrote: you say you and thor knew getting into a argument over your or his logic would end in disaster and that thor went full into it and thats what makes him scummy.
Well him and tool.In post 234, Sir Bastion wrote: you ignored requests for input elsewhere in the game and frankly a quick look at your ISO shows you Have not talked about anything else.
Your point in a nutshell is I posted some walls which is at best terrible and I didn't fulfill peoples requests which is pretty bad to do as scum but we will call that null for arguments sake.-
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Do show!In post 229, Thor665 wrote: Also, why are you ignoring how revisionist Slandaar is being?
It's not subtle.
Why are you even still voting me Thor when your whole super duper misrep has been proven false?
I didn't respond to tools post purposefully just so you know-
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What Issue?In post 239, Sir Bastion wrote: I addressed post 75 in which he specifically asked for your opinion on a different issue which you ignored.
I am fairly sure I responded to everything in that post.
Yes.In post 240, Sir Bastion wrote: which is one in the same issue. Do you have an opinion on any other player in the game?
Don't care for the wagon.In post 240, Sir Bastion wrote: How do you feel about the leading wagon on Garmr for example?
No I explained in 2 lines my reasoning and that could have been that.In post 240, Sir Bastion wrote: my point is you are blaming (and voting) thor for a logic fight which frankly you started.
He asks a bunch of questions
I post wall in response
He argues.
Which of that is not accurate?-
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I don't see why it matters but in fact I did respond to that.
Axxle: Don't knowIn post 243, Sir Bastion wrote: what about the people on it.
Do you think its a town led wagon or do you think its got scum in it.
Zakk: Town
TCold: meh town if I were to guess but I don't like guessing.
Mac: scumish
Garmr is quite meh aswell but again I would guess town.
Perhaps there isn't any; to be able to think that he as town wouldn't do it is actually very very very hard; perhaps he felt it would be considered normal for it to happen or expected. The point is he wouldn't do it as town.In post 242, Sir Bastion wrote: and since you are here, what is the motivation for scum thor to get into a logic fight with you so early in day 1?
And his answer or response was 'I would stick with the same methods' which is quite ridiculous you don't just keep trying things which do not work.-
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Sorry, I am blind, you know that please direct me to this.In post 245, Thor665 wrote:
I have.In post 238, Slandaar wrote:
Do show!In post 229, Thor665 wrote: Also, why are you ignoring how revisionist Slandaar is being?
It's not subtle.
It doesn't exist I have actually proven it and you have not 'corrected' me. Multiple people thinking it doesn't mean it does exist. Multiple people think aliens have visited Earth, doesn't make it true.In post 245, Thor665 wrote: Multiple other players agree it exists...but for some reason are just deciding it is not scummy.
Who are these people anyways?
Yeah they do.In post 245, Thor665 wrote:
The sunglasses make that a town action.In post 238, Slandaar wrote:I didn't respond to tools post purposefully just so you knowIn post 245, Thor665 wrote: Oh...wait.-
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I am quite happy lynching; his response to my case was no sufficient. The misrep argument is also terrible.In post 254, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Slandaar; are you ready to lynch Thor, or do you think you need more discussion to make up your mind before fully committing to him hanging? No getting cold feet once this bandwagon takes off.
I don't really understand why you are asking me this though it doesn't feel right.-
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Resorting to buzzwords which are in fact not a scumtell and the use doesn't even make sense here.In post 262, Thor665 wrote:
You disagreeing with it fails to make it untrue.In post 255, Slandaar wrote:It doesn't exist I have actually proven it and you have not 'corrected' me.
Flail more.
Thor, the 'no you' strategy isn't going to work.
Also the revisionist thing needs addressing.
Good spelling makes it a town action.In post 278, Thor665 wrote:Also, just for the record, I'm drunkposting.
And still don'tyt shpeelll lik dits!
Oh...wait.
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I feel like noone reads Tool's posts.In post 265, toolenduso wrote: And then asking Slandaar if he's ready to lynch Thor.-- Slandaar has given no other indication than that he wants to lynch Thor. Slandaar responds with this:Why he asked this, I have no idea
In post 256, Slandaar wrote:I don't really understand why you are asking me this thoughit doesn't feel right.Why say this, Slandaar?
I feel like Tool has not been reading my posts.In post 265, toolenduso wrote: This is what I'm getting from Slandaar's arguments: "I am correct, therefore there is no point in arguing against me. Any argument you make against me is useless because it is argued based on logic and not behavioral patterns. A behavioral pattern is defined as something that I see and you don't. Logic is defined as something you see."-
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Y'know, I tend to like to avoid posting my thoughts on everything interestingly similar to ABR.
However, this game has a lot of suspects and so I am just going to remove myself from the pool later as I am town and this town needs obvtowns at this point. So, expect lots of content on interesting things.
The trouble is I am unsure who actually is scum due to the number of possibilities, Thor I am pretty sure is but then this always happens and maybe he is just this naive to think that he shouldn't change his method of reading me or at least should leave me to post for a bit before coming to any conclusions. When I say always happens its happened 2/2 where we were both town, this is why the case is so strong because of the timing in the meta between us. I know I am under the impression arguing his logic is pointless at this point and so he should think similarly, its just not going to get us anywhere (obviously when one or both of us were scum it doesn't count)
The third game is kinda where you should be considering other options its a bit like playing with a VI (note: I am not saying Thor is a VI we have conflicting approaches) the first game you may not realise they are, maybe even the second but the third you really shouldn't be expecting their logic to be agreeable or what you consider good and thus you give them leeway looking at other ways to read them maybe just use activity levels, VCA, fencesitting type things, waffle wording, that sort of thing, you do not just say 'well that case doesn't make sense you are scum'. (In this scenario probably the second game its more applicable but you get the point)
There is no reason for in a 3rd game to stick to exactly the same method when it has not worked prior and magically it happened again so in the situation Thor is town here it definitely does not work but Thor will continue in a 4th game the exact same strategy to read me? REALLY?
That is where it makes no sense and that is Thors 'defence'; he wouldn't change methods.
Out of context what this means is Thor has said he doesn't mind being wrong on one or two people all the time as he wouldn't make exceptions to how he scumhunts individuals which is clearly terrible if you have meta on someone you should use it. (and this is why the VI example is good)
This actually turned into a nice explanation of why Thor is scum.-
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I love you Thor!In post 294, Thor665 wrote: Slandaar remains worse, but no one notices because they think it's personal.
See, noone thinks its personal.
But I do think you are scum. You have given up very easily not even bothering to defend your case after I show its wrong but you just say nu-uh!
The ABR case looks very weak too.
I see. I seem to move up your scumlist everypost I assume I will be #1 soon?!In post 301, ICEninja wrote: Considering JUST his play this game, Thor is on a scummier side, but not my preferred lynch so far.
This put Slandaar higher on my scum list.Slandaar wrote: However, this game has a lot of suspects and so I am just going to remove myself from the pool later as I am town and this town needs obvtowns at this point. So, expect lots of content on interesting things.
Interesting stance to take having both Thor and I as scum.-
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I have literally no clue what you are even talking about; there is no misrep, I even showed post by post the exact conversation from my perspective to prove it. I never said anything about intending or not intending it to be one there wasn't one.In post 311, Thor665 wrote:But I do
I have shown the misrep.
It exists.
This is a fact.
You have said that it wasn't intended to be a misrep, and thus it is not.
At that point the only value is arguing your motivation, and I am already on record that I don't see a town motivation for it, and you have failed to even try to show one and are getting poncey about how I'm not debating your lack of logic after showing it exists.
Learn 2 play.
Everything past that is therefore irrelevant because you are just making things up it seems.-
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Thor please stop avoiding my questions. Where is the misrep you continually say exists?
And show this revisionist posting.
I can make the exact same case you presented on ABR on you; just making stuff up the difference is you won't admit it and seem to think I will let you get away with not explaining it.
ABR is town
ICE is scum
You should take that as fact.
I had Ice as scum prior and I will show why soon but here is the evidence;
Not Town; no stance on the issue and it clearly comes from scum seeing town who made up a case. Think about it another way; Anyone who is town react remotely similar? nope and noone will all you have to do is think about how you reacted when you read it. And the reason for the difference is we don't know ABR's alignment although ICE has now given it away.In post 351, ICEninja wrote:LOL Albert you crack me up.-
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Because it didn't; the question didn't make sense to ask.In post 333, toolenduso wrote: You responded to the part of the sentence I wasn't questioning. What I was asking was, why did you say it doesn't it feel right?
You are not applying context which I told you previously.In post 333, toolenduso wrote: Could you please explain what I missed in your pasts instead of just saying I missed something?-
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I did disprove it yet you say I didn'tIn post 379, Thor665 wrote: You mean the one you said you disproved?
Have you forgotten it's existence after "disproving" it?
What are you even asking me for here?
So, the point is you are supposed to now show why my disproving is wrong. Otherwise it just comes over as avoiding which is what you are doing, yes?
We are talking about your comment regardingIn post 379, Thor665 wrote:
1. Albert flat out stated he made it up.In post 372, Slandaar wrote:And show this revisionist posting.
2. He also *did* change his story halfway through.myposting not ABR's.
I am lazy there is absolutely no way I am looking at your meta links as such the case is a bit over my head shall we say.In post 379, Thor665 wrote: Quite frankly, you not even addressing Albert's case strikes me as just as bad.
Remember when I asked you to do so?
Can you quote where you answered me?
Why don't you do so or answer my questions now, that would be awesome.
I don't see why you think I am scum and so sure of it; because of a misrep that doesn't exist.
That part was good.-
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OK I actually wrote this yesterday and don't really feel like ensuring its up-to-date so whatever I was going to add something but I can't remember what and I am not that bothered so its posted as is.
ICE is scum fairly sure been so for a while don't like most of what he posts he is like the guy who sits there in the background posting nice lengthy catchup posts hes there but not there.
Nitpicking the use of bus/distance early on was just absolutely ridiculous.
His early read on Thor also shows he loves wafflefest.
The dumb fight comment is terrible. Town will never view things in such a light because town believe the person is scum so his post is completely backwards. When I saw that post I considered he is scum and Thor town and the dumb fight was his perspective knowing it is TvT. It is at least worth thinking about because actually his posting is very very weak.
This also betrays him, he likes Axxle less and less for what? not posting? Shouldn't affect read.In post 268, ICEninja wrote: I'm liking Axxle less and less
Mac the wafflefest host 'I like having my vote somewhere' 'I like holding onto my vote' he has one decent post the rest is a load of waffling and basically just agreeing/disagreeing with others reasoning. A guy who basically doesn't engage with anyone. Looks like scum.
Tool is scummy also for numerous reasons I could reiterate but meh.
Thorlol.
Max not ever voting Garmr doesn't seem completely right but I think hes town enough.
That then obviously leads to Garmr who I don't see too much bad with his posting weak but not scummy.
Zakk's first post basically gives away his alignment; town unless Tool is scum; the difference in levels in his thinking between the apologising and the EBWOP thing are so vast it looks like bussing but thats the only scenario hes scum.
ABR is fairly town I think.
SB is town
The rest as has been said have not posted enough but Gov guy can be scum quite easily too.-
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lolIn post 392, Thor665 wrote:
No, because I did reply to your disproval when i called it you disagreeing that there as scum intent and pointed out I disagreed.In post 387, Slandaar wrote:So, the point is you are supposed to now show why my disproving is wrong. Otherwise it just comes over as avoiding which is what you are doing, yes?
What part of this would you like to re-tread?
Who has a clue what Thor is saying here?
Lets relook, I make a nice post 213 showing very clearly how this 'misrep' is laughable.
Since that post; (yeah lots of quotes read it see how Thor just dodges REPEATEDLY)In post 238, Slandaar wrote: Why are you even still voting me Thor when your whole super duper misrep has been proven false?In post 245, Thor665 wrote: It has not been proven false.
Multiple other players agree it exists...but for some reason are just deciding it is not scummy.In post 255, Slandaar wrote: It doesn't exist I have actually proven it and you have not 'corrected' me.In post 310, Slandaar wrote:You have given up very easily not even bothering to defend your case after I show its wrong but you just say nu-uh!In post 324, Slandaar wrote: I have literally no clue what you are even talking about; there is no misrep, I even showed post by post the exact conversation from my perspective to prove it. I never said anything about intending or not intending it to be one there wasn't one.
Everything past that is therefore irrelevant because you are just making things up it seems.In post 325, Thor665 wrote: @Slandaar - ...riiiight.In post 372, Slandaar wrote:Thor please stop avoiding my questions. Where is the misrep you continually say exists?
I am embarassed for anyone who thinks Thor is townIn post 379, Thor665 wrote: You mean the one you said you disproved?
Have you forgotten it's existence after "disproving" it?
What are you even asking me for here?
Does anyone know what this mystical elusive misrep is? nope noone does Thor sure doesn't.
This is extreme dodging, Thor has not once referenced or tried to defend the 'misrep' accusation after I disprove it. He is scum.-
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That is what I saidIn post 392, Thor665 wrote: You were revisionist when you claimed his point had issues for being over explained
Nope never did this quotes are requiredIn post 392, Thor665 wrote: then clarified it to lacking a conclusionimmediatelyor you will be branded as lying and lynched as such.
See you do know the argument. He only needed the question not the rest of the post.In post 392, Thor665 wrote: then clarified it to...whatever it is now, I dunno. Apparently you hate that he expressed his reasoning when asking a question and making a statement and that this is somehow because he was nervous scum. It doesn't make sense and you did change your argument.
For not wanting to look at meta links?In post 392, Thor665 wrote: So...basically your plan is to not address a case that someone made, based on lies, and instead you'll call them town without understanding it and me scum.
This is why you are scum.
I understand that is made up so, uh, I do understand it???
If he were scum I very much doubt he cares so much about being the big man, its a town thing, I know.
So, I can't be bothered looking through loads of meta and thats not justifiable?In post 392, Thor665 wrote: This isn't even close to being justifiable for you ducking the case and expressing your opinion on it - even the lurkers have managed that much, why are you so scared to? Is this why you find Tool scummy, because you think it's scum play to weigh in on ongoing discussions or something?
I see.
Doesn't seem like it is alignment indicative to me Thor.-
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That is an opinion not a misrep.In post 418, Elyse wrote:The misrep is you saying that tool overexplained himself during his opening post and that he didn't want to be perceived as doing something scummy.
So, someone else any ideas?-
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I just don't see the need to repeat myself you can find it if you read my posts.In post 419, Sir Bastion wrote: ffs...are you blind to my posts?
The part you can't should be obvious; He told you why he fabricated it; that is why he did it whatever his alignment.-
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Now onto the important issue of Thor proving I said what he suggests is a misrep.In post 413, Slandaar wrote: If he were scum I very much doubt he cares so much about being the big man, its a town thing, I know.-
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Don't play dumb you knew what I was asking you to do.In post 457, Thor665 wrote: So,...as I understand it, you *didn't* actually need to see my misrep case again, and all your constant complaining about that has either been mudslinging, or just a whiny attempt to get me to post my case again so you could complain about it.
What you *really* wanted all this time and were unable to say is: Thor, I'd like you to address Slandaar's dismissal of your misrep case in a point by point, quote wall debate.
Which, incidentally, is one of the things you are calling me scummy for trying to do with you.
Do you see how this, also, looks insane?
And also is something I have specifically told you I chose not to do because I saw no value in doing it.
The value is pretty obvious from your POV to see my version is correct (or hypothetically know for certain its not) and it is thus you can drop your nonsense case (or not) and move on IF you were town but at this point its just obvious you are not so whatever this is why you see no value to it.
Well this is what Thor has been suggesting is a misrep
Side by sideIn post 167, Slandaar wrote: Uh no. My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.
Thors Version: that might make sense...except he didn't offer a conclusion!
Actual Version: My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.
Thor has completely changed the meaning of the post and is misrepping me.
What the argument is about using Thors own words;In post 392, Thor665 wrote: then clarified it to...whatever it is now, I dunno. Apparently you hate that he expressed his reasoning when asking a question and making a statement and that this is somehow because he was nervous scum. It doesn't make sense and you did change your argument.
I clarify (the true version)In post 413, Slandaar wrote: See you do know the argument. He only needed the question not the rest of the post.
Proof my version is correct;
Yep, it just needed to be the question none of the rest.In post 88, Slandaar wrote: And so we get to the 'point'. Why did it look like bussing? That is literally all this post needed to be.
NOW
Looking at the examples;
Mine ends with a question as it is mandatory.In post 133, Slandaar wrote: 3.You know I think scum can scumslip I think this because they have knowledge town do not and thus they can occasionally slip that information in their posts and then we can catch them because they have released information that they could only have as scum.(assuming X said something and the question is aimed at X)
Why do you think that?
Thors ends in a conclusion so I say;In post 142, Thor665 wrote: The fruit is round, red, has white pulp, seeds inside, came from a tree, and has a sweet flavor with some tartness.
I believe it is an apple.
Lets look to ensure the post DOES end in a question and not a conclusion;In post 167, Slandaar wrote: Uh no. My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.
Yep thats a question.In post 33, toolenduso wrote:EDBWOP (thanks Garmr for the definition)
I guess what stage of the game it is would matter a little bit.
What I'm saying is, at this stage in the game there's very little logical reasoning a mafia could give to bus their partner. So I think you'd have to see something pretty convincing at this stage in the game to think something is bussing. Otherwise, you could say any post of one person voting for another was bussing.
Unless I'm missing something.Why did you think it looked like bussing, outside of the fact that one voted for the other?
Clearly no misrep.
This has been Thors entire case for like 15 pages he is scum.-
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Sure.In post 457, Thor665 wrote: If you could provide a scum read that isn't me with your reasoning for having that belief, it would be awesome.
In post 372, Slandaar wrote:Thor please stop avoiding my questions. Where is the misrep you continually say exists?
And show this revisionist posting.
I can make the exact same case you presented on ABR on you; just making stuff up the difference is you won't admit it and seem to think I will let you get away with not explaining it.
ABR is town
ICE is scum
You should take that as fact.
I had Ice as scum prior and I will show why soon but here is the evidence;
Not Town; no stance on the issue and it clearly comes from scum seeing town who made up a case. Think about it another way; Anyone who is town react remotely similar? nope and noone will all you have to do is think about how you reacted when you read it. And the reason for the difference is we don't know ABR's alignment although ICE has now given it away.In post 351, ICEninja wrote:LOL Albert you crack me up.
You know you probably should read the thread...In post 388, Slandaar wrote:OK I actually wrote this yesterday and don't really feel like ensuring its up-to-date so whatever I was going to add something but I can't remember what and I am not that bothered so its posted as is.
ICE is scum fairly sure been so for a while don't like most of what he posts he is like the guy who sits there in the background posting nice lengthy catchup posts hes there but not there.
Nitpicking the use of bus/distance early on was just absolutely ridiculous.
His early read on Thor also shows he loves wafflefest.
The dumb fight comment is terrible. Town will never view things in such a light because town believe the person is scum so his post is completely backwards. When I saw that post I considered he is scum and Thor town and the dumb fight was his perspective knowing it is TvT. It is at least worth thinking about because actually his posting is very very weak.
This also betrays him, he likes Axxle less and less for what? not posting? Shouldn't affect read.In post 268, ICEninja wrote: I'm liking Axxle less and less
Mac the wafflefest host 'I like having my vote somewhere' 'I like holding onto my vote' he has one decent post the rest is a load of waffling and basically just agreeing/disagreeing with others reasoning. A guy who basically doesn't engage with anyone. Looks like scum.
Well another way of looking at it is he could have just argued on if he were scum instead of committing suicide which he has, he is going to be lynched and he would have known that.In post 457, Thor665 wrote: A deeper explanation of why what ABR did was a town tell would also be appreciated (by others, not me, but I'll ask again just for their sake).-
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ArgumentsIn post 464, toolenduso wrote: The context you're referring to is that you're only talking about your argument with Thor. And yet here is your exact quote:
I always take a shower at 5pm on HolidaysIn post 464, toolenduso wrote: You use the word always. You even type it in all caps. The word "always" means that what you're saying applies to situations other than the one you're currently in.
DOES NOT MEAN
I always take a shower at 5pm
This is the 4th time you have taken things out of context specifically regarding me, keep trying.-
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So the answer is no you had no clue and thus it needed attention considering it is Thors entire case.In post 455, ICEninja wrote:
The existence or non existence of any misrep that may or may not have happened hasSlandaar wrote: Well show me this misrep I assume you know what it is Ice.zeroimplications of my read on you. Now please start being useful or I will seriously just start skipping your posts because you hardly ever say anything new. I seriously cannot believe how caught up you are on shit that happened in the first few pages of the game when there is SO. MUCH. CONTENT. TO. TALK. ABOUT.
God I hope we have a vig...
I am not posting it to make anyone think I am town, I am posting it to make everyone see Thor is scum.
Big Difference.
Nice take on things though. It doesn't matter when things happen; Thor focused on it for the entire duration I have shown during said timeframe I asked multiple times for him to show it; he didn't and so forcing the issue had to happen.
What do you think about Thors case on me being completely made up by changing my wording?-
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And we could go on; Thor could have actually been protown instead of using wording to act like he was.
What do I mean by this? If he wanted to be protown he could have just (tried) to show where my original explanation wasn't correct. His whole case was based on the premise of this misrep so it would be in his interest to show how my explanation wasn't correct if he actually believed it.
He did not.
Instead he decided to drag this out for 10 pages (number is arbitrary) until I had enough of his nonsense.
Thor is scum.-
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It makes sense if you had a question at the end but the question is very very important so no your example isn't good.In post 497, Thor665 wrote: You *are* agreeing with me that my example makes sense except that it ends in a conclusion.
lolIn post 497, Thor665 wrote: You continually crop Tool's post to cut out his conclusion and focus on the examples and a question - in other words cutting his post in half and then suggesting he's working overhard to explain something that goes nowhere.
This was not your point previously as you clearly never said anything about cropping posts.
Anyways... Where exactly have I done this 'cropping'?-
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What baggage?In post 518, Sir Bastion wrote: If you are town you have been counter productive, a long with slandaar you have brought in some serious baggage with thor which has poisoned this game so far and I wouldnt be surprised if its revealed at the end that its the reason we've had players *requesting* replacements, not just dropping out, but actually saying *No I want out*
Thor is scum there is nothing more to it.-
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What you are implying is scum sheeped the case which means that in fact your suspicions are in the wrong places.In post 521, Thor665 wrote: @ABR - why do you think your case on me got as far as it did for what it was if I am scum?
Otherwise town sheeped and then the answer is town sheeped so???-
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Well if you want to call meta baggage...In post 536, Sir Bastion wrote:baggage:
Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.
During game Thor tries to argue my logic is scummy.
Doesn't make sense, I expect if you were town you would have tried alternative methods like seeing if I lurk hard or not, but instead you went the superficial way of arguing logic which is ultimately pointless and not actually going to get you a read that is useful because it always ends the same way. Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct and it is just a ridiculous strategy from a TownThor plus its always to do with how things are worded so at a minimum a TownThor should have at least tweaked a little.
How can someone expect to read me with a method which is proven not to work?-
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No they are not the same thing, look similar, but the change makes the meaning different.In post 537, ICEninja wrote: Those things are pretty much the same thing, with a spin on it to emphasize how unreasonable you're being. And you call it a misrep (I'm starting to begin to think no one in this game actually understands what misrepresentation is).
Ever play Chinese Whispers? Yeah.
I never said what Thor suggests and his whole case was (note: he has now changed it) based on that change without the change the case doesn't exist and thus the difference is important.-
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Its you.In post 540, Sir Bastion wrote: Heh.
Perhaps its just me, but expecting a player to act a certain way because you played against each other before is not meta.
'I expect X to be more loud as scum if scum here because I caught him lurking scum last time'
Meta.-
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I don't see why I need to explain it as the example should have been enough.In post 544, Sir Bastion wrote: "I expect X to avoid challenging me on this issue, because when me and X fight like this in the last game we get into such a hissy girly fight that one of us ended up lynched. So X will not challenge me even though he doesnt know if I'm scum or not he will leave me be and not question me or pressure me or come near me in any form because last time that ended badly for us "
Thats not meta.
If you play with someone in a few games they will figure out how to read you or should at least figure out things that don't work (relates to both alignments) and so knowing what does and does not work to read someone you adapt to read them using what does and avoid what doesn't.
Thors play has not evolved at the level I would expect it to if he were town here.
That is a meta case.-
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I addressed his whole post initially after which there was no need.In post 543, Thor665 wrote: Correct, I said misrep - oddly my misrep description specifically noted how you weren't addressing what he really did, and my cropping comment is not an actual different comment.
I asked where not what.In post 543, Thor665 wrote: I literally just said. You even know what you're being accused of cropping. Fire. Go die in it.
Basically you are saying you don't like my original argument.
Thats it isn't it?
lol.
I am just going to leave this here as it actually shows exactly what I have been saying all along.-
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So for 22 pages that has been your entire case. Hardly a big issue. My alignment is related to belief of the argument not the argument itself.In post 571, Thor665 wrote:
I've been saying that since you presented your original argument - yes.In post 563, Slandaar wrote:Basically you are saying you don't like my original argument.
Thats it isn't it?
'I think this post should have just been a question'
'NO WAY YOU SCUM YOU CANT POSSIBLY THINK THAT'
Are we lynching Thor now or what?-
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This is scum too.In post 567, ICEninja wrote:Logic is pointing to ABR as scum but this wagon is developing too easily without enough counter. Slandaar really is the only one pushing elsewhere.
The only way this makes sense is if both scum buddies is in Slandaar and [all the lurkers]. Which now that I think about it, could be entirely possible, but still.
I'm feeling uneasy about this.
What are people's opinion of lynching Slandaar today and worrying about ABR later? The biggest reason I can think of to not do this would be that ABR already claimed, but beside that gut is telling me this is the right move.
TCold would still be a solid option too, though it looks like he's going to end up being force replaced, and we did just get a new player. I suppose I'll sit on this for a little. For the record I'm still willing to lynch ABR but day 1 wagons that have so minimal counter push tend to fall on town.
'Only Sland push elsewhere lets lynch him!'
Uh well there won't be any pushes elsewhere except from ABR (maybe) so its the same scenario, I see what you are trying to do though.-
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We have played 5 or 6 times now...In post 571, Thor665 wrote: I did a quick bit of Googlefu and all that popped up is a game from over a year ago (Mini 1347)
Hurm, and looks like also Mini 1390 from a year ago.
Maybe that's it?
1390 was me town and Slandaar scum though, and the way Slandaar is talking it sounds like there was another game inbetween here and there with him as town, but I'm totally blanking on what it is.
One you probably wanted to forget
And the interesting thing?
Remarkably similar to here
Its like you have not adjusted even a tiny bit.-
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