Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[Sir Bastion]

why dont you quote where you gave your reasoning on why you think albert is town or an opinion on him admitting his case was nothing?

[Sir Bastion]

wow we wasted over a page on that sh*te.

[Slandaar]

If he were scum I very much doubt he cares so much about being the big man, its a town thing, I know.

Now onto the important issue of Thor proving I said what he suggests is a misrep.

[toolenduso]

How about you respond to this point by SB?

Cause despite your claims otherwise. I dont see anywhere in your ISO where you have said why you think albert is town.

I have seen no opinion from you about him admitting his case was made up.

[Garmr]

Garmr's "you guys want more fine"

I really didn't like this at all. You should always have your reads out on the table. When something asks you for more and you go "ugh fine" and churn out some content, it's scummy.

Garmr 173 scumslip

Looking back this isn't as bad as I thought it was. Here's the post:

I'm trying to engage in one on one this round but i'm kinda failing. I'm not the best at defending myself from multiple people either as

I tend to break down even as town

Albert and T-cold know this from past experience with me.

I thought the "even as town" bit was weird. It's like he's saying "I break down as scum but I even do it as town" which insinuates he's scum.

1.That's been addressed before but I will answer.
Well first off I was trouble producing scum or town reads at that points at that point of the game.

2.Second Scum slip???. Even as town does not imply I'm scum as I am using even as town in a general way. I don't know any other way to say it.

[ICEninja]

Well show me this misrep I assume you know what it is Ice.

The existence or non existence of any misrep that may or may not have happened has

zero

implications of my read on you. Now please start being useful or I will seriously just start skipping your posts because you hardly ever say anything new. I seriously cannot believe how caught up you are on shit that happened in the first few pages of the game when there is SO. MUCH. CONTENT. TO. TALK. ABOUT.

God I hope we have a vig...

[ICEninja]

Like, I seriously cannot believe that pretty much 2 pages were dedicated to talking about this.

Thor's suggestion of Slandaar being lynched after Albert flips scum makes a lot of sense to me, as I have already stated that Albert being scum makes Slandaar look like scum too.

[Thor665]

Use quotes, that post is less than accurate.

So,...as I understand it, you *didn't* actually need to see my misrep case again, and all your constant complaining about that has either been mudslinging, or just a whiny attempt to get me to post my case again so you could complain about it.

What you *really* wanted all this time and were unable to say is: Thor, I'd like you to address Slandaar's dismissal of your misrep case in a point by point, quote wall debate.

Which, incidentally, is one of the things you are calling me scummy for trying to do with you.

Do you see how this, also, looks insane?
And also is something I have specifically told you I chose not to do because I saw no value in doing it.

Edit: Also, I feel like stuff has changed again. So now it's one specific comment you made that I'm misrepping, not all of them. Hurm, okay, I'm going to do this for fun now.

Here is the misrep in a nutshell;

Slandaar - he overexplained!
Thor - I don't think he did.
Slandaar - He did too!
Thor - :offers an analogy: I think he just did this.
Slandaar - that might make sense...except he didn't offer a conclusion!
Tool - I...did offer a conclusion, it was in my post right underneath my reasoning for having that conclusion that you called 'overexplaining'

Which one am I misrepping?
Also, AT THE SAME TIME AS ANSWERING THAT
If you could provide a scum read that isn't me with your reasoning for having that belief, it would be awesome.
A deeper explanation of why what ABR did was a town tell would also be appreciated (by others, not me, but I'll ask again just for their sake).

[Thor665]

Thor's suggestion of Slandaar being lynched after Albert flips scum makes a lot of sense to me, as I have already stated that Albert being scum makes Slandaar look like scum too.

It would very much justify the odd refusal to so much as think about it - all while also claiming I'm dodging...when the question I was "dodging" isn't even one he wanted answered and also already knew the answer to, but in reality wanted me to address his post but apparently couldn't ask me to.

[toolenduso]

Oh well. I tried.

[Garmr]

Sigh My head hurts.

I believe Ice ninja is town- His post 455 wants to stop something which is just clogging up pages. Post 295 was good as for reasons described by F-16 and his take on the whole Thor,Slandaar and Albert argument Scum must of had a field day with that.

Through I don't agree with ICEninja on everything but meh most of it's been good.

[ICEninja]

Thor just stop engaging him. We all realize how insane he sounds.

[Thor665]

Thor just stop engaging him. We all realize how insane he sounds.

You do realize that prior to this I wasn't engaging him and we all had to listen to how I was dodging him.
Functionally (theoretically) he should be able to come at me and *also* answer other questions.
If he doesn't I'm fine with that because I want to lynch him. But "not engaging" wasn't working to get him to notice the rest of the game was happening, so why not try a bit of engagement for a while - it could hardly serve as more of a reason for him to not comment on anything else.

[toolenduso]

Here's one reason to suspect Slandaar, as I promised earlier when Slandaar was saying there's no case against him if not for Thor's assertion that he misrepresented me.

4. Something I just noticed after reading some more is that Slandaar is basically just asking us to trust him because he's never wrong. Asking people to basically just follow on faith without reasoning it out themselves.

Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct and it is just a ridiculous strategy from a TownThor plus its always to do with how things are worded so at a minimum a TownThor should have at least tweaked a little.

Context is required again; I am talking about Thor and I's arguments not every argument I ever made on anyone.

The context you're referring to is that you're only talking about your argument with Thor. And yet here is your exact quote:

Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct

You use the word always. You even type it in all caps. The word "always" means that what you're saying applies to situations other than the one you're currently in.

It's not just this quote that demonstrates your belief that you're great at this and other people can't question you with validity. You write as though you expect people to know what you're talking about without explaining it, because you're just that awesome. See these examples:

ABR is town
ICE is scum

You should take that as fact.

I feel like Tool has not been reading my posts.

Why are you even still voting me Thor when your whole super duper misrep has been proven false?

Thor is scum therefore it is no 'dumb fight'

How can someone expect to read me with a method which is proven not to work?

You keep saying things are "proven" when the people you're talking with disagree with you. You explain your logic by restating it as if it requires no further explanation. You tell people to take what you say as a fact.

This is why I believe that you are arguing based on the proposition that you are great at this game. Your style of argument and your exact wording paints that picture. To argue based solely on the fact that you're awesome is hardly convincing. At it’s best, what you’re doing is obstructing meaningful town conversation. At worst, it’s a scumtell.

[toolenduso]

EBWOP: Whoops, I constructed the quote tags wrong in that last one...

4. Something I just noticed after reading some more is that Slandaar is basically just asking us to trust him because he's never wrong. Asking people to basically just follow on faith without reasoning it out themselves.

Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct and it is just a ridiculous strategy from a TownThor plus its always to do with how things are worded so at a minimum a TownThor should have at least tweaked a little.

Context is required again; I am talking about Thor and I's arguments not every argument I ever made on anyone.

The context you're referring to is that you're only talking about your argument with Thor. And yet here is your exact quote:

Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct

You use the word always. You even type it in all caps. The word "always" means that what you're saying applies to situations other than the one you're currently in.

It's not just this quote that demonstrates your belief that you're great at this and other people can't question you with validity. You write as though you expect people to know what you're talking about without explaining it, because you're just that awesome. See these examples:

ABR is town
ICE is scum

You should take that as fact.

I feel like Tool has not been reading my posts.

Why are you even still voting me Thor when your whole super duper misrep has been proven false?

Thor is scum therefore it is no 'dumb fight'

How can someone expect to read me with a method which is proven not to work?

You keep saying things are "proven" when the people you're talking with disagree with you. You explain your logic by restating it as if it requires no further explanation. You tell people to take what you say as a fact.

This is why I believe that you are arguing based on the proposition that you are great at this game. Your style of argument and your exact wording paints that picture. To argue based solely on the fact that you're awesome is hardly convincing. At it’s best, what you’re doing is obstructing meaningful town conversation. At worst, it’s a scumtell.

[Thor665]

I don't disagree with the above.
But it's a playstyle tell, not a scumtell.

[toolenduso]

Fair enough. But could you explain what makes you think it's playstyle and not purposeful obstruction/distraction?

[N]

Axxle has requested replacement.
Prodding TCold

Vote Count 1.13

TCold

(0)

ICEninja

(0)

zakk

(1) Garmr

Garmr

(2) Axxle, TCold

toolenduso

(0)

Sir Bastion

(0)

Slandaar

(0)

Thor665

(2) Slandaar, zakk

Elyse

(0)

Maxous

(0)

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

(0)

Albert B. Rampage

(5) Thor665, toolenduso, Sir Bastion, ICEninja, Elyse

Axxle

(1) Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting:

Maxous, F-16_Fighting_Falcon

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-10-23 18:36:35)

V/LA:

F-16_Fighting_Falcon until Friday

[toolenduso]

I don't even care if ABR is scum right now

You should.
Never let annoyance at a player affect your vote...or at least try not to.
On the plus side he *is* scum, but you shouldn't make a stance that 'Player X is obnoxious...let's lynch them'
If that attitude gets too big in a game I actually suggest replace out and then blacklisting them for yourself so you never have to play with them again. But don't harm the game over it.

I agree, and I know you're right. I thought about replacing out. But fortunately it's Day 1 and we can afford to mislynch. ABR is still on my list of scumreads, so it's win-win for me.

Also, if I replaced out I think it would also hurt the town -- I think it would be hard for a replacement to catch up with the pace of this game, and I've been one of the players keeping up and consistently posting.

If we don't lynch ABR today, I can at least hope that either he will stop acting like a dominatrix in some bizarre sexual fantasy or, if he continues to, that I will cool down and be able to ignore him.

[Thor665]

Fair enough. But could you explain what makes you think it's playstyle and not purposeful obstruction/distraction?

Well, I personally do not think that people change their lifestyles and attitudes because of role PMs.

You're tagging him, in effect, for being full of himself. Whether or not that is true - I am pretty sure it is not because of his role PM, but rather because of what he believes or chooses to portray as believing. If you were to go and find me a few of his town games wherein he is not full of himself, then maybe we'd be onto something. But I suspect that is unlikely to happen.

Let's just go with him misrepping and now faking scumhunting and call that the case.
Let's also call it all a distraction from the ABR situation.
And then lynch ABR.

[toolenduso]

And then lynch ABR.

Hear hear!

[Slandaar]

So,...as I understand it, you *didn't* actually need to see my misrep case again, and all your constant complaining about that has either been mudslinging, or just a whiny attempt to get me to post my case again so you could complain about it.

What you *really* wanted all this time and were unable to say is: Thor, I'd like you to address Slandaar's dismissal of your misrep case in a point by point, quote wall debate.

Which, incidentally, is one of the things you are calling me scummy for trying to do with you.

Do you see how this, also, looks insane?
And also is something I have specifically told you I chose not to do because I saw no value in doing it.

Don't play dumb you knew what I was asking you to do.

The value is pretty obvious from your POV to see my version is correct (or hypothetically know for certain its not) and it is thus you can drop your nonsense case (or not) and move on IF you were town but at this point its just obvious you are not so whatever this is why you see no value to it.

Thor - :offers an analogy: I think he just did this.
Slandaar - that might make sense...except he didn't offer a conclusion!

Well this is what Thor has been suggesting is a misrep

Uh no. My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.

Side by side
Thors Version: that might make sense...except he didn't offer a conclusion!
Actual Version: My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.

Thor has completely changed the meaning of the post and is misrepping me.

What the argument is about using Thors own words;

then clarified it to...whatever it is now, I dunno. Apparently you hate that he expressed his reasoning when asking a question and making a statement and that this is somehow because he was nervous scum. It doesn't make sense and you did change your argument.

See you do know the argument. He only needed the question not the rest of the post.

I clarify (the true version)

Proof my version is correct;

And so we get to the 'point'. Why did it look like bussing? That is literally all this post needed to be.

Yep, it just needed to be the question none of the rest.

NOW

Looking at the examples;

3.

You know I think scum can scumslip I think this because they have knowledge town do not and thus they can occasionally slip that information in their posts and then we can catch them because they have released information that they could only have as scum.

Why do you think that?

(assuming X said something and the question is aimed at X)

Mine ends with a question as it is mandatory.

The fruit is round, red, has white pulp, seeds inside, came from a tree, and has a sweet flavor with some tartness.
I believe it is an apple.

Thors ends in a conclusion so I say;

Uh no. My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.

Lets look to ensure the post DOES end in a question and not a conclusion;

EDBWOP (thanks Garmr for the definition)

I guess what stage of the game it is would matter a little bit.

What I'm saying is, at this stage in the game there's very little logical reasoning a mafia could give to bus their partner. So I think you'd have to see something pretty convincing at this stage in the game to think something is bussing. Otherwise, you could say any post of one person voting for another was bussing.

Unless I'm missing something.

Why did you think it looked like bussing, outside of the fact that one voted for the other?

Yep thats a question.

Clearly no misrep.

This has been Thors entire case for like 15 pages he is scum.

[Slandaar]

If you could provide a scum read that isn't me with your reasoning for having that belief, it would be awesome.

Sure.

Thor please stop avoiding my questions. Where is the misrep you continually say exists?

And show this revisionist posting.

I can make the exact same case you presented on ABR on you; just making stuff up the difference is you won't admit it and seem to think I will let you get away with not explaining it.

ABR is town
ICE is scum

You should take that as fact.

I had Ice as scum prior and I will show why soon but here is the evidence;

LOL Albert you crack me up.

Not Town; no stance on the issue and it clearly comes from scum seeing town who made up a case. Think about it another way; Anyone who is town react remotely similar? nope and noone will all you have to do is think about how you reacted when you read it. And the reason for the difference is we don't know ABR's alignment although ICE has now given it away.

OK I actually wrote this yesterday and don't really feel like ensuring its up-to-date so whatever I was going to add something but I can't remember what and I am not that bothered so its posted as is.

ICE is scum fairly sure been so for a while don't like most of what he posts he is like the guy who sits there in the background posting nice lengthy catchup posts hes there but not there.

Nitpicking the use of bus/distance early on was just absolutely ridiculous.

His early read on Thor also shows he loves wafflefest.

The dumb fight comment is terrible. Town will never view things in such a light because town believe the person is scum so his post is completely backwards. When I saw that post I considered he is scum and Thor town and the dumb fight was his perspective knowing it is TvT. It is at least worth thinking about because actually his posting is very very weak.

I'm liking Axxle less and less

This also betrays him, he likes Axxle less and less for what? not posting? Shouldn't affect read.

Mac the wafflefest host 'I like having my vote somewhere' 'I like holding onto my vote' he has one decent post the rest is a load of waffling and basically just agreeing/disagreeing with others reasoning. A guy who basically doesn't engage with anyone. Looks like scum.

You know you probably should read the thread...

A deeper explanation of why what ABR did was a town tell would also be appreciated (by others, not me, but I'll ask again just for their sake).

Well another way of looking at it is he could have just argued on if he were scum instead of committing suicide which he has, he is going to be lynched and he would have known that.

[Garmr]

Slandaar please just drop it it's not going to go anywhere. If you really must continue it just give reads on other players or the game in whole. It's just the same thing looping over and over.

[Slandaar]

The context you're referring to is that you're only talking about your argument with Thor. And yet here is your exact quote:

Arguments

You use the word always. You even type it in all caps. The word "always" means that what you're saying applies to situations other than the one you're currently in.

I always take a shower at 5pm on Holidays

DOES NOT MEAN

I always take a shower at 5pm

This is the 4th time you have taken things out of context specifically regarding me, keep trying.