Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[Albert B. Rampage]

The word you're looking for is "articulating". Yes, many of us do agree that Thor is scummy, however it's mighty important that other players than me, Slandaar, ICEninja and a few others weigh in on the game, so we clearly know where everyone stands.

[N]

Vote Count 1.09

TCold

(1) ICEninja

ICEninja

(0)

zakk

(1) Garmr

Garmr

(4) Axxle, zakk, TCold, Macros

toolenduso

(0)

Sir Bastion

(0)

Slandaar

(2) Thor665, Sir Bastion

Thor665

(3) Slandaar, Albert B. Rampage, Maxous

Macros

(0)

Maxous

(0)

GuthrieGov

(0)

Albert B. Rampage

(0)

Axxle

(0)

Not Voting:

toolenduso, GuthrieGov

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-10-23 18:36:35)

[Thor665]

That's page 30. Being certain of something on page 30 is a long shot from page 10, with the amount of information we've both seen from Slandaar.

Oh, so we're not taking into account that I replaced in on Page 24 and openly stated I wouldn't read anything prior to my repalce in, and so got that read in *less* time.
Tell me more about your amazing meta of me.

It was also on Day 2, after a night kill. And even the language you use there is more passive than the one here. All in all, if you look at your early Day 1 play in those games, it showcases exactly what I've pointed out about your play.

I didn't even have a Day 1 in one of those games.
I was also scum in one that did.

As for the 3 games Thor posted, the first one isn't even relevant. He replaced in on page 24, and just looking through it feels like he talked to a lot more people than he has been here. Sure Thor is addressing other things besides Slandaar, but I feel like Thor hasn't really pursued any line of reasoning other than Slandaar=scum for a majority of this game.

I would challenge you to name the player who has addressed more things than I.
Or, y'know, even the subject I haven't addressed?

I will agree there are players I haven't addressed - but look at their actual input and then recognize that a handful are still functionally not even part of the game yet and that no one has input on them yet because of obvious reasons.

[Thor665]

Also, just for the record, I'm drunkposting.
And still don'tyt shpeelll lik dits!

I am amazing.
I still can't figure out how other people can't.

[Thor665]

I don't think anyone wants to fight though.

ABR is being derp. I'm kinda hoping he's faking it at this stage, because it's so bad, but who knows. I guess he might actually believe it...but if so it's so bad as to bewilder me.
One of the two lackwits buying into it off hand is probably scum and the other would be confirmed town (that would be TCold and...other guy, I'll get you a name tomorrow. But both were all like, 'this makes sense! I won't even comment on how Thor is wuss slapping it or ABR is misrepping things, huzzah! Scum and lackwit town that scum is happy is along for the ride. Frankly I tend to point at TCold as the more likely scum of the paitr as he hoped on late in the affair.)
Tool remains obv. town, as already said, but you can add that he pretty blatantly went and did his own research. Y'know, for those who didn't understand and believe me the first time. His conclusion is immaterial - he clearly actually did research - y'know, because he's town. Also, unlike ABR
Bastion and Ice *talked* about doing research and then hedged...so...meh, null.
Slandaar remains scummy.

I go to bed now.
Also shower.
Not in that order.

[Thor665]

It was zakk, he was the other lurker who was suddenly cool with this.
Kinda obvious really.
Eh, I stand by probably he's the town one of the pair still. TCold is the scum - they're assuredly not both scum, derp.

[zakk]

Unvote, Vote: Thor665

I do not like his smug tone and how he tries to undermine people's thought processes who think he is scum. It's like he's trying to discredit them to everyone else, AND to themselves at the same time. Also, I like to watch him squirm.

[zakk]

You're quite entertaining, Thor. Are you scum? Are you town and just really scummy? And most importantly, are you going to break up with Natalie Portman in The Dark World?

[Sir Bastion]

I did. Nowhere in those games do you put a general call out to lynch the person you thought was scum. You probe, you ask questions, you make statements like "Let's see where this wagon goes". This is similar to what I'm doing in this game (my vote on Garmr or Slandaar). However, here, you don't do those things, you jump to a per-determined conclusion and aren't interested in anything except controlling the lynch. I'll repeat it again for you. Your certainty on Slandaar (ie: the language you're using, your posts, the tone) doesn't match that of a townie in early game interested in breaking the narrative.

So after a nap (have some patience Thor) I got down this morning to read through Thor's iso in the three games he linked to see if the above case by Albert has much weight.

But after the briefest momentary glance I had to stop and come back to this:

Nowhere in those games do you put a general call out to lynch the person you thought was scum.

Yes, I do.

Let's just go to the first game I linked.

All your votes are currently useless. Either start making *amazing* cases on your chosen target, or move somewhere useful.
Sheeping me is allowed.

There's one.

I'm going to go ahead and lob 'not reading thread' as another reason people should sheep me on Slaine.

There's another.

What other lies are you basing this case on?

That's page 30. Being certain of something on page 30 is a long shot from page 10, with the amount of information we've both seen from Slandaar.

uhmm

of the three games, Thor was only present in one at page 10 and he was scum in that game.

Also that game has this:

Unvote: MattP
Vote: Pitoli

Also willing to policy lynch the Stupendous Man/KBW slot.
Also willing to help lynch Majiffy.

So there is no meta example yet of thor scum calling for a wagon, but there is an example of thorscum being open to multiple wagons.

So to double check things here.

You dismiss thor's defence because it was a post that was 30 pages into the game.

yet there is no example in the ones given of Thor town on page 10 habits...so how did you come to your original conclusion?

We have first hand example of thorscum acting the opposite to what you suggested, though oddly he vanishes for 15 pages after that so again its a poor example.

As for the remaining two town games

1 he started at page 28 which you have dismissed as too late in the game. Which is odd cause he replaced in on both games

the second he's town doctor and arrives after page 10 also. But...

1. Thor did stick to the same wagon for almost all of day 1.

2. That game was as far as I can see very different circumstances as a player had claimed a pr in day 1 and the majority of that day 1 is defined by discussions on if one should lynch said day 1 claim.

3. His defence of the page 30 game entry (that he doesnt read the previous pages) also stands true in this game as he also refuses the read the previous 12 pages.

Your meta is bollocks.

Did you even look at these games?

Did any of the people sheeping you look at these games?

The circumstances in each of them are completely at odds with our current state.

[Slandaar]

It doesn't exist I have actually proven it and you have not 'corrected' me.

You disagreeing with it fails to make it untrue.
Flail more.

Resorting to buzzwords which are in fact not a scumtell and the use doesn't even make sense here.

Thor, the 'no you' strategy isn't going to work.

Also the revisionist thing needs addressing.

Also, just for the record, I'm drunkposting.
And still don'tyt shpeelll lik dits!

Good spelling makes it a town action.

Oh...wait.

[zakk]

That is pretty much what I'm talking about. He seems to be crashing and burning and resorting to petty insults when he's been caught and tagged.

[Slandaar]

And then asking Slandaar if he's ready to lynch Thor.

Why he asked this, I have no idea

-- Slandaar has given no other indication than that he wants to lynch Thor. Slandaar responds with this:

I don't really understand why you are asking me this though

it doesn't feel right.

Why say this, Slandaar?

I feel like noone reads Tool's posts.

This is what I'm getting from Slandaar's arguments: "I am correct, therefore there is no point in arguing against me. Any argument you make against me is useless because it is argued based on logic and not behavioral patterns. A behavioral pattern is defined as something that I see and you don't. Logic is defined as something you see."

I feel like Tool has not been reading my posts.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm not interested in Thor's meta. I said his play was scummy and he says that's how he plays as town. I asked him to show me, and his most recent games are all invalid because he replaces in late, is scum, etc.

The meta of Thor was for him to say "here's proof I do this as town".

He's hasn't shown this. You can't take his meta and go you didn't do this one scummy thing therefore you're not scum. Not how it works.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I've got a big problem with Sir Bastion for implying that I'm attacking Thor for meta, when in fact, that's actually what his defence rests on.

[Sir Bastion]

I'm not interested in Thor's meta.

I said his play was scummy and he says that's how he plays as town. I asked him to show me,

and his most recent games are all invalid because he replaces in late, is scum, etc.

The meta of Thor was for him to say "here's proof I do this as town".

He's hasn't shown this. You can't take his meta and go you didn't do this one scummy thing therefore you're not scum. Not how it works.

no you didnt

Go ahead and link me to your last 3 games, Thor.

If you wanted a comparison closer to what our situation you could have asked him for a game where he was town from the beginning, or you could have gone and looked yourself.

If the meta is irrelevant to this argument why are you relying on it so much?

I've got a big problem with Sir Bastion for implying that I'm attacking Thor for meta, when in fact, that's actually what his defence rests on.

Read the first two games Thor has linked. Thor is scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Heck, i literally just had a Newbie end where I did this.
Day 1 *and* Day 2.

i can link if you'd like to continue to claim that you remotely understand how I play the game as town or scum.

The quote from Thor above is the only reason meta was brought up in the first place.

Read the first two games Thor has linked. Thor is scum.

The quote above is missing an "I" at the beginning of the sentence and is meant to be read from my perspective. In other words, "I've read the games you linked and it isn't a good defence."

You're completely mixed up about the events of this game.

[Slandaar]

Y'know, I tend to like to avoid posting my thoughts on everything interestingly similar to ABR.

However, this game has a lot of suspects and so I am just going to remove myself from the pool later as I am town and this town needs obvtowns at this point. So, expect lots of content on interesting things.

The trouble is I am unsure who actually is scum due to the number of possibilities, Thor I am pretty sure is but then this always happens and maybe he is just this naive to think that he shouldn't change his method of reading me or at least should leave me to post for a bit before coming to any conclusions. When I say always happens its happened 2/2 where we were both town, this is why the case is so strong because of the timing in the meta between us. I know I am under the impression arguing his logic is pointless at this point and so he should think similarly, its just not going to get us anywhere (obviously when one or both of us were scum it doesn't count)

The third game is kinda where you should be considering other options its a bit like playing with a VI (note: I am not saying Thor is a VI we have conflicting approaches) the first game you may not realise they are, maybe even the second but the third you really shouldn't be expecting their logic to be agreeable or what you consider good and thus you give them leeway looking at other ways to read them maybe just use activity levels, VCA, fencesitting type things, waffle wording, that sort of thing, you do not just say 'well that case doesn't make sense you are scum'. (In this scenario probably the second game its more applicable but you get the point)

There is no reason for in a 3rd game to stick to exactly the same method when it has not worked prior and magically it happened again so in the situation Thor is town here it definitely does not work but Thor will continue in a 4th game the exact same strategy to read me? REALLY?

That is where it makes no sense and that is Thors 'defence'; he wouldn't change methods.

Out of context what this means is Thor has said he doesn't mind being wrong on one or two people all the time as he wouldn't make exceptions to how he scumhunts individuals which is clearly terrible if you have meta on someone you should use it. (and this is why the VI example is good)

This actually turned into a nice explanation of why Thor is scum.

[Sir Bastion]

vote macros

frankly none of the cases put forth from albert, slandaar or thor have any value imo. Albert's original case relies too much on him appealing to authority and I frankly feel it's only gained weight because of the claim that thor's play is not consistent with the three other he posted.

Slandaar has gone so far up his own arse about his *special relationship* with thor that you two need to get a room. I have actually backed from thinking you're scummy and thinking that you are over reacting to a fantasy you have created in your own head, your last post seals it.

Thor I dont think the misrep is enough for a lynch. I dont even think its that bad of a misrep. Unless you believe misreps are scummy period then I think this thought process is dried up.


So I'm going to go back to what I really want to know.

Why a town player needs the person he is accusing of being scum to dare him to vote. Why he complains about a wagon growing too quickly but doesnt get off. For a player that pushes for a response he has a poor record of following up and an even poorer record explaining his own actions.

He's also been online (Last Visited: 14 Oct 2013, 08:24) so I want answers.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert's original case relies too much on him appealing to authority and I frankly feel it's only gained weight because of the claim that thor's play is not consistent with the three other he posted.

I'll repeat again: the only reason his games were brought up was because he used "meta" as a defence. He posted some games and failed to show any correlation. I asked for the 3 most recent games because he said "I just completed a newbie where I did exactly this! Can link if you want!".

Zac needs to post more about other things in the game so I can get a decent read.

[Thor665]

Unvote: Slandaar
Vote: Zakk

I feel the reasoning is obvious.
ABR remains bad and a little silly, but I'm not sure if it's scummy bad. Eh, if people vote him I'd hop over.
Slandaar remains worse, but no one notices because they think it's personal.

[Thor665]

I'll repeat again: the only reason his games were brought up was because he used "meta" as a defence

I...just feel a need to point this out just to show how wussy this defense is.

You remember your initial attack on me?
It was "Thor wouldn't call for a lynch like this as town"

Hint: That's a meta case.

Derpa-derp, Al.
Derpya-derp.

[Thor665]

Actually, the more I think about this.

Unvote: Zakk
Vote: ABR

I'll show you why in a second.

[Thor665]

I present to you why Al is scum in two easy steps.

Step 1: He is annoyed when I call him out for producing badly - the defense is I shouldn't know his meta, and shouldn't act like I do because he's so cool he barely remembers me.

Don't act like you're familiar with me. I hardly remember you existed.

Step 2: Later the same day, he knows exactly how Thor plays as scum or town, and can apply that in a case on Thor.

Thor would be probing TCold and others who have posted less, asking them to join him, so he could evaluate their play. He wouldn't put a general call out to lynch Slandaar, like a mob boss putting a hit out on a snitch. That doesn't help him as town. It helps someone with an agenda, and a plan to achieve it.

So, y'know, he barely remembers me BUT HE KNOWS MY SCUM GAME.

You may sheep me now.
Me saying that is apparently something I only do as scum though.
Please ignore all evidence to the contrary.
Al will.

Gotcha.

[Sir Bastion]

Albert's original case relies too much on him appealing to authority and I frankly feel it's only gained weight because of the claim that thor's play is not consistent with the three other he posted.

I'll repeat again: the only reason his games were brought up was because he used "meta" as a defence. He posted some games and failed to show any correlation. I asked for the 3 most recent games because he said "I just completed a newbie where I did exactly this! Can link if you want!".

Zac needs to post more about other things in the game so I can get a decent read.

I get your point, Thor brought up previous games first.


My point is remove this post here and this and this and this and finally this would not have happened.

your original case boiled down to *I've played this game more then anyone else here (except thor) and I say he is far too certain therefore scummy!* which was post 219. Thats a weak appeal to authority with little else of substance.

We went 50 more posts almost and nobody in this game had time for that thought process.

Throw in you saying *He doesnt act like this in his other games he linked* and suddenly the thor wagon is the hottest thing in town.

So you may not think the *meta* has anything to do with your case, but it has clearly brought a lot of other people over. So if you are of the same position as me that there is no meta to speak of, perhaps your energy should be focused on those who sheeped you because suddenly your case appeared to be *meta*.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Step 2: Later the same day, he knows exactly how Thor plays as scum or town, and can apply that in a case on Thor.

I never said I know how Thor plays as scum, but I do recognize good play.

Game recognize game, and right now you ain't looking too familiar.

That being said, I agree with Zakk needing motivation to post because that jump was mighty suspicious.