Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[zakk]

I read a lot but there is still a lot more to read. My notes are going to be pretty long when this is done. Hopefully I can get all that into a manageable post. This game moves so much faster than any other game I have been in so far. There is a lot of good stuff to go on so far though.

[Slandaar]

I've told you time and time again to actually contribute to this game instead of repeating over and over and over (ad nasium) about the same points that

every single player in this game besides you

agree are meaningless.

I'm not the only one frustrated about it. I'm just calling it like I see it.

Oh we got a reaction

Honestly. Please.

Do us a favor and read your own ISO. I want you to understand the % of your content that is related in one way or another to some misrep that may or may not have happened in the first few pages of the game.

It's overwhelming. You're unwilling to talk about anything else.

Your entire case on Thor is predicated on how he responds to interactions regarding this misrep. You made some pathetic attempt to scum hunt me and then that was it, back to "look how Thor handled this SUPER FUCKING IMPORTANT misrep, he's SO FUCKING OBVIOUSLY SCUM".

Do you even have opinions of players besides Thor?

Explosion.

Sure I will answer your question;

You are such a scumbag ice.

Good Job.

I am scum right? shouldn't matter if I call you scum you don't need to worry about that no need for such theatrics. But then I am town and you are scum so that explains that.

Thor then chirps into the situation

@Ice - I wouldn't hold your breath, he's actually trying to pick a random fight with me for pointing out what's happening, and he doesn't even notice that I'm right.

PREVIOUSLY IN THOR VS SLANDAAR:

If you could provide a scum read that isn't me with your reasoning for having that belief, it would be awesome.

Sure.

Thor please stop avoiding my questions. Where is the misrep you continually say exists?

And show this revisionist posting.

I can make the exact same case you presented on ABR on you; just making stuff up the difference is you won't admit it and seem to think I will let you get away with not explaining it.

ABR is town
ICE is scum

You should take that as fact.

I had Ice as scum prior and I will show why soon but here is the evidence;

LOL Albert you crack me up.

Not Town; no stance on the issue and it clearly comes from scum seeing town who made up a case. Think about it another way; Anyone who is town react remotely similar? nope and noone will all you have to do is think about how you reacted when you read it. And the reason for the difference is we don't know ABR's alignment although ICE has now given it away.

OK I actually wrote this yesterday and don't really feel like ensuring its up-to-date so whatever I was going to add something but I can't remember what and I am not that bothered so its posted as is.

ICE is scum fairly sure been so for a while don't like most of what he posts he is like the guy who sits there in the background posting nice lengthy catchup posts hes there but not there.

Nitpicking the use of bus/distance early on was just absolutely ridiculous.

His early read on Thor also shows he loves wafflefest.

The dumb fight comment is terrible. Town will never view things in such a light because town believe the person is scum so his post is completely backwards. When I saw that post I considered he is scum and Thor town and the dumb fight was his perspective knowing it is TvT. It is at least worth thinking about because actually his posting is very very weak.

I'm liking Axxle less and less

This also betrays him, he likes Axxle less and less for what? not posting? Shouldn't affect read.

Mac the wafflefest host 'I like having my vote somewhere' 'I like holding onto my vote' he has one decent post the rest is a load of waffling and basically just agreeing/disagreeing with others reasoning. A guy who basically doesn't engage with anyone. Looks like scum.

You know you probably should read the thread...

A deeper explanation of why what ABR did was a town tell would also be appreciated (by others, not me, but I'll ask again just for their sake).

Well another way of looking at it is he could have just argued on if he were scum instead of committing suicide which he has, he is going to be lynched and he would have known that.

And as he so eloquantly put it nothing is actually happening now because I am not pushing on him which he has tried to take advantage of and twist (note: he dodged my question) so no nothing has changed.

Or to be even more obvious;

I really feel like zakk is bussing tool.

But Thor and Ice are scum so not enough scum slots left. Elyse also seems to have continued her slots legacy of running wafflefest.

If anyone actually wants to lynch scum these 2 clowns are pretty obvious.

[Thor665]

If Slandaar, Zakk, and Garmr all magically ended up dead and flipped, I wouldn't be a sad panda.

@Slandaar - I read your post, and I actually don't even understand what you're accussing me of or what question you think I dodged. This is coming from a player who town or scum is always willing to argue. I know that me "dodging" is part of your scum case, but a mild look through my games should show you that is something I never do. Here I am, the drama queen of debate, and I have been actively involved in this debate, and I literally can't even tell what you're accusing me of here.

What do you think are the chances, then, that anyone not involved (i.e. the rest of the players) have any clue what is going on?

Even if you want to keep pressing on me, it is painfully obvious that you need to change your method if you want anyone to pay attention.
I am suggesting that your lack of willingness to do so is anti-town. I've even come around to the idea you are town, and if I could understand your case I'd be happy to crush it because it might de-tunnel you, and I can't do that because I don't even understand what you're on about.
Even if I was scum and you were town - you would *still* be anti-town with what you are doing.

Maybe after the Al flip you'll reset - I really hope so.
If not you and I may need to hydra or something, because I think it would help you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm afraid you seem confused. Thor is scum.

His bandwagon was town-driven. Garmr is also scum. Don't lynch Zakk, he's town.

[Slandaar]

@Slandaar - I read your post, and I actually don't even understand what you're accussing me of

You and Ice both suggest I have not posted my thoughts on others when I have.

You suggest it after I had already shown you previously I had.

Which shows a complete lack of paying attention and just asking pointless questions. Ice even suggested I havn't posted thoughts on anyone other than you when in the post he is responding to I called him scum so...

or what question you think I dodged.

Specific points.

This is coming from a player who town or scum is always willing to argue. I know that me "dodging" is part of your scum case, but a mild look through my games should show you that is something I never do. Here I am, the drama queen of debate, and I have been actively involved in this debate, and I literally can't even tell what you're accusing me of here.

OK its simple.

You show me the specific points my response does not cover.

What do you think are the chances, then, that anyone not involved (i.e. the rest of the players) have any clue what is going on?

It doesn't matter much at this point. When I flip town tomorrow you will be lynched.

Even if you want to keep pressing on me, it is painfully obvious that you need to change your method if you want anyone to pay attention.
I am suggesting that your lack of willingness to do so is anti-town. I've even come around to the idea you are town, and if I could understand your case I'd be happy to crush it because it might de-tunnel you, and I can't do that because I don't even understand what you're on about.
Even if I was scum and you were town - you would *still* be anti-town with what you are doing.

The case is what its always been which you are telling me not to post again but in the exact same post are saying I should...

When did this magical revelation happen? You accused me only yesterday of not trying to oppose the ABR wagon which I have clearly done all game until recently as it takes a lot of energy.

Maybe after the Al flip you'll reset - I really hope so.

Probably not.

Why did he unvote you in the first place? I never really understood that if he were scum.

If not you and I may need to hydra or something, because I think it would help you.

Thanks for the offer but I don't like hydras I don't dislike them to the extent I won't play with them but greatly prefer not having them in games and so I won't ever hydra with anyone. Its plain annoying having to read 2+ people instead of just one and the confusion it brings... its not how the game is supposed to be.

[Thor665]

You and Ice both suggest I have not posted my thoughts on others when I have.

Well, if you'd like clarification, I think what both of us are tagging you on is not *discussing* (and, at least for me, clarifying) your reads. Also, as Ice pointed out, if we take away everything you've said about just me in this game, I'm pretty sure your full contribution is about 5-10 posts.

Which shows a complete lack of paying attention and just asking pointless questions. Ice even suggested I havn't posted thoughts on anyone other than you when in the post he is responding to I called him scum so...

Again, what he is talking about is your efforts.
Yes, at one point you posted 1-2 posts about Ice and have occasionally requoted them. Whoop-de-doo. That's not the point and I'd like to think you grok that.

or what question you think I dodged.

Specific points.

I'm...glad they're specific?

You show me the specific points my response does not cover.

Show me all the colors that are not red.

It doesn't matter much at this point. When I flip town tomorrow you will be lynched.

Would you like some cheese? At worst this is AtE, at best it is meaningless.

The case is what its always been which you are telling me not to post again but in the exact same post are saying I should...

Actually, I am explicitly NOT doing that.
I am telling you that *if* your case is any good at all it is being ignored. So *if* you want to be any good at all you should think of a way to express it that is different from what you have been doing, because clearly what you have been doing is failing mega-hard.
Does that make sense?

When did this magical revelation happen? You accused me only yesterday of not trying to oppose the ABR wagon which I have clearly done all game until recently as it takes a lot of energy.

I still don't think you are opposing it. Not functionally.
I will agree you have expressed opposition to it - but even when I made that call about you I agreed that had happened, just that it wasn't being done in a real way.

Why did he unvote you in the first place? I never really understood that if he were scum.

Which part of my explanation for him doing that do you not understand?
It was a defensive move when he realized his case was busted.
The easy flip side to the question is 'why did he lie to press a case and then not do anything with the info learned if he was town?' I never really understood your defense of him except that you kind of seemed to call him generically bad and thus town.

Thanks for the offer but I don't like hydras I don't dislike them to the extent I won't play with them but greatly prefer not having them in games and so I won't ever hydra with anyone. Its plain annoying having to read 2+ people instead of just one and the confusion it brings... its not how the game is supposed to be.

I disagree, I don't think having actions come from two players agreeing on something actually invalidates the ability to read actions. And if they actually try to hide behind dissonance then you treat them the same way you treat any player that is intentionally playing to avoid giving clear reads and opinions. Usually I request vig-ing.

[Thor665]

When did this magical revelation happen? You accused me only yesterday of not trying to oppose the ABR wagon which I have clearly done all game until recently as it takes a lot of energy.

And, wait, i think I misunderstood this when I first replied.

Are you suggesting my revelation that you are town has been sudden and strange?
I sort of expressed my belief in that like over a week ago or something.

[Skelda]

Alright, I'm finally reading this. I've been putting it off due to lacking motivation, but I'm going to now. Expect a logical post from me soonish.

[Thor665]

Went and looked, I first expressed the idea five days ago.
I clarified a stronger belief in it four days ago.
And I even kind of called out Ice on it today.

So...yes, it's a magic revelation.

[Thor665]

Alright, I'm finally reading this. I've been putting it off due to lacking motivation, but I'm going to now. Expect a logical post from me soonish.

At this stage I'd be willing to accept illogical posts from all the lurkers rather than further promises of eventually getting posts.

[ICEninja]

Yeah...pretty much nothing in post 701 makes any sense.

I'm eagerly awaiting some new blood. I feel like I've been unable to get new reads on players simply because new discussion stopped happening 12 pages ago.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yeah...pretty much nothing in post 701 makes any sense.

I'm eagerly awaiting some new blood. I feel like I've been unable to get new reads on players simply because new discussion stopped happening 12 pages ago.

Because the majority of players are tunneling on me.

[Slandaar]

Do you even have opinions of players besides Thor?

DOES NOT EQUAL

I think what both of us are tagging you on is not *discussing* (and, at least for me, clarifying) your reads.

This is quite clear, Thor and Ice are buddies.

[Slandaar]

I like how you ignored the very specific points I raised against what you were doing and then substituted in 'not trying hard' which is not something I ever said about what you were doing.

Which of your 'very specific' points was not covered by what I said?

Insert Post of Thor not answering

(note: he dodged my question)

or what question you think I dodged.

or what question you think I dodged.

Specific points.

This is coming from a player who town or scum is always willing to argue. I know that me "dodging" is part of your scum case, but a mild look through my games should show you that is something I never do. Here I am, the drama queen of debate, and I have been actively involved in this debate, and I literally can't even tell what you're accusing me of here.

OK its simple.

You show me the specific points my response does not cover.

Show me all the colors that are not red.

That is called dodging questions which is the second time Thor has done it.

[Maxous]

Alright, I'm finally reading this. I've been putting it off due to lacking motivation, but I'm going to now. Expect a logical post from me soonish.

Do you generally feel unmotivated when you have to fake a bunch of content??

[Slandaar]

Here I will explain it a different more productive way;

Do you even have opinions of players besides Thor?

[/quote]
What is an acceptable answer to this question?

I could say; yes I think x is scum. I could say yes I think x and y are scum.

But lets look at facts; he already knows the answer, he knows I think hes scum, so a valid answer is; yes I think you are scum which is an absolute complete waste of time. It is fake.

I think what both of us are tagging you on is not *discussing* (and, at least for me, clarifying) your reads.

Thor then tries defending it with some nonsense about how no that wasn't ices question and he (Thor) wasn't agreeing with it instead he changes the meaning of what Ice asked into something completely different.

The question clearly was not 'Can you discuss your read on me with me'

[ICEninja]

Because the majority of players are tunneling on me.

Do me a quick favor (just in case you are town). In this hypothetical world, you get lynched today and flip town. Tomorrow a cop clears Thor as innocent.

Where should town proceed from there?

Also Slandaar, while I realize you think I'm scum, I seem to recall every point you raised against me being completely invalid. Care to drop a couple bullet points as to why I'm scum and refresh my memory?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Sir Bastion.

[zakk]

Still reading. I have IceNinja, GuthrieGov/F-16, and TCold as townish, and Thor and Sir Bastion as scummish.
My mind on Garmr and toolenduso has changed somewhat. They look more likely to be town after continuing reading.

Unvote

if I am voting.

[Maxous]

I'm more suspicious of Maxous who hasn't laid down a vote and is content on just calling people towny while fueling the flames between the two wagons.


UNVOTE: Alby boy, VOTE: Maxous

EDWOP [/b

]
and he votes still through I find him suspicious for taking so long to vote and the way his just listing people as town so early in the game.

Slightly scummy. Looking for a reason to vote rather than looking for scum?

Also your points on Tool are fluff lol the only one I could consider not fluff is the one about pretending to be clueless and that's not really to strong of a sign.

Slightly scummy.
Unnecessary mudslinging at Zakk to discredit his read?

#121 + #134 <== slow to give out reads until directly called out

I'm trying to engage in one on one this round but i'm kinda failing. I'm not the best at defending myself from multiple people either as I tend to break down even as town Albert and T-cold know this from past experience with me.

Slightly scummy. Weird excuse.

Albert- Hasn't been helpful all game, Jumped on my wagon with little reasoning and just is irritating. Scum

Making a note of this reasoning for ABR-scum. It's all he ever gives.

@Tcold
Just a couple of questions and then feel free to ask me some.

1.What do you think of the scuffle between Slandaar and Thor.(I know you think Thor is suspicious but can you point out certain points.)
2.Do you have any scum reads on people no one has mentioned and why?
3.What's your current read of Tool since you didn't like him earlier but you haven't mentioned him since. So what helped confirm/change your read on him.

This is when he ignored the ABR-Thor debate despite ABR being his strongest scum-read.
It is very plausible that inexperienced scum would avoid such a debate like a plague because of not knowing how to handle the situation.
I did'nt see toolenduso shy away from it.
That was scummy.
His stated reason for not commenting was basically that nothing changed regarding ABR. But nothing to say about ABR's case on Thor???
'nothing changed' doesn't sound genuine.

[Maxous]

If i'm nightkilled you now have my legacy.

[ICEninja]

Why so, Albert? I've liked his posts so far.

[Maxous]

like really thinking about his #180 - "has'nt been helpful".
But when ABR gives content - nothing changes??

I can only assume Garmr's reasoning for ABR-scum is "Jumped on my wagon with little reasoning and just is irritating"

[ICEninja]

That's a more or less decent case for day 1, Max. Why didn't you push it?

[Maxous]

Yeah I probably should of tried harder :I