Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[Albert B. Rampage]

If you look at my meta in that game, it's exactly the same as here btw.

[Thor665]

I actually think I agree with ABR there.

Let's lynch Slandaar now.

[ICEninja]

I remember that game but not you.

[Maxous]

I actually think I agree with ABR there.

So do we take it as a town tell or leave it as null?

[ICEninja]

I'll look through it a bit and see if you were this useless in that game too.

It doesn't make him town, but it could suggest that a lot of my reasoning for finding him scum is wrong.

[Albert B. Rampage]

a lot of my reasoning for finding him scum is wrong.

Yup.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't understand the reasons for voting Slandaar. His exchange with Thor isn't scummy IMO.

[Thor665]

I actually think I agree with ABR there.

So do we take it as a town tell or leave it as null?

It means the current case as stands holds no water.
So unless you're advancing it as a policy lynch it's probably not a worthwhile case to pursue at this stage.

[Thor665]

I don't understand the reasons for voting Slandaar. His exchange with Thor isn't scummy IMO.

What about the misrep?

[ICEninja]

Albert was busy and behind for much of the game he linked. I don't feel like this example is particularly helpful in showing how he'd behave in a game that he is incredibly active in, particularly during day 1 which he was more or less absent in the example given.

His play was pretty much useless and contentless later in the game even after he caught up, however, so it suggests that he could play like this as town.

Unvote

. I need to think on this a bit.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't understand the reasons for voting Slandaar. His exchange with Thor isn't scummy IMO.

What about the misrep?

Could be a mix of trying to post content and getting into an argument with you.

[Thor665]

@Ice - exactly, pay attention to the part *after* he "catches up. Him being lurk-a-derp is pretty null. So is him being guarded and beligerent with his reads.
What else have you got?

@ABR - Except I pointed out that Tool was providing examples in defense of a conclusion and was told it was scummy because he failed to deliver a conclusion when he did do so.
So at that point Slandaar is calling foul because someone explained their thought process and drew a conclusion.
Because he "over explained"
And he over explained by having a few lines describing why he believes what he did.
And then Slandaar leaps into lengthy quote wars with me...while explaining stuff at length and saying the difference between *his* lengthy explanations and Tools are "because Tool did it in a scummy way...that...I can't explain..."



Yeah, maybe he just went insane because he's desperate to prove me wrong and be a stallion in bed with his bedmate of choice later tonight.
Or it could be that he was just attacking a post he perceived a sweak for a surface level reasoning that he didn't actually think through because he didn't care if it was scummy or not.
He then, as Bastion noted, switched to calling me scummy for getting into a debate with him that he requested I get into.

I want that slot dead.
What am I missing?

[Thor665]

Oh, wait, though he did try to explain Tools reasoning as being scummy for lacking an explanation.
Which, y'know, is the misrep.
And kind of the point.

i fhe thought the overexplanation was scummy only because it lacked an explanation...then he didn't actually read the post he called scummy for over explaining things without an explanation.

Now...*maybe* that comes from town.
But if it does I want to policy lynch that town.
And I don't think it came from town.

[Slandaar]

Oh, wait, though he did try to explain Tools reasoning as being scummy for lacking an explanation.
Which, y'know, is the misrep.
And kind of the point.

No I didn't say this anywhere.

Let us recap:

Thor posts;

3. Complaining that he didn't ask the question succinctly...when he did, all he did was add in why he holds the belief he does.

I post this example to show how the whole 'explanation' part is unneeded before the question. The question is all that matters the rest is needless and thus overexplaining.

3.

You know I think scum can scumslip I think this because they have knowledge town do not and thus they can occasionally slip that information in their posts and then we can catch them because they have released information that they could only have as scum.

Why do you think that?

(assuming X said something and the question is aimed at X)

so, Thor says this is a better example;

The fruit is round, red, has white pulp, seeds inside, came from a tree, and has a sweet flavor with some tartness.
I believe it is an apple.

Uh no. My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.

I say mine is more accurate because Thors ends with a conclusion (and by extension mine ends with a question which Tool's post does). The question was always very important in the whole issue and Thors example dropped it.

Its like ending Tools original post with 'I think Bastion is scum' which is clearly not what happened it ended with the question of why bastion thought it was bussing.

Now; Thor thinks this is some huge misrep? Amusing. He is scum.

i fhe thought the overexplanation was scummy only because it lacked an explanation...

I didn't say this. Clearly that was not ever the point, the point, which can be seen in the original post is that he only needed the question none of the rest.

Thor requires the noose.

[Slandaar]

Sure.

Do a line by line breakdown of what is wrong with my post in regards to overexplaining.

Now let us figure this out; You know we don't agree on anything so instead of letting me do what I do and catch the scum you are trying to come after me for posting something you think is wrong well that is what you should expect to happen when I am town.

I could bring up everything you have posted I don't agree with but I don't; why? because its pointless to argue it as I know I won't agree with you it's just how it is.

In short: You are being very superficial.

What do you think is my biggest scumtell? list a few if you like.

You practically begged him to do so.

You vote for him for fake scumhunting, but as far as I can tell you have intentionally started a wallpost fight and pulled him away from scumhunting.

OK
Bolded 1: Uh not really. I knew he couldn't do it that is kind of why you challenge people to do things in this context.
Bolded 2: I expected a 1-2 word answer maybe a couple more, that is surely too many words!

He initiated. I can ask you 10 questions which wouldn't constitute a wall, but your response would be; that does not mean you are the one responsible assuming wall posting is to be seen as some terrible thing.

Basically you took a small part of my case on Thor and reworded it. Good job.

[ICEninja]

I'm liking Slandaar less and less. I honestly feel like town Slandaar would have taken my advice and actually started to scum hunt, realizing he was locking horns in a dumb fight.

Slandaar could you make a quick succinct bullet point case explaining why people should vote for Thor? Because I'm simply not seeing any good reasons for me to vote him in any of your posts.

I still, even after reviewing things and thinking about things, don't see ABR's play coming from town. I totally understand holding back one's reads, but the fact of the matter is a significant majority of his "content" has absolutely nothing to do with scum hunting. Reading his ISO just demonstrates that he has so little interest in catching scum. It's simply too much to just chalk up to "this is how ABR plays". Town ABR finds scum.

I'll take a look at some players in more detail this weekend and see what I find.

[Slandaar]

Continued to argue that point by saying I was overexplaining things, ignoring most of the rest of the players.

The argument is flimsy because my tendency to reason things out isn't as good of evidence as other things happening in the game.

Did anyone actually read this?

The reason it is flimsy is because there are better reasons? lol

2. Reacted a little defensively when pressed about his arguments.

Asserts his ability (which is apparently very good, as he said in the quotes I pulled for my fourth point) to scum hunt is being hindered, asserts he is town (which has no value) and calls Thor superficial. It's a little defensive, but it's not like he's blowing up about it. Just a little hint, not the main part of my argument.

Hint of what? defensive isn't a scumtell at all.

3. Goes all Sextus Empiricus on us by saying there's no value in argument.

I could bring up everything you have posted I don't agree with but I don't; why? because its pointless to argue it as I know I won't agree with you it's just how it is.

Simple version;
Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.

During game Thor tries to argue my logic is scummy.

Doesn't make sense, I expect if you were town you would have tried alternative methods like seeing if I lurk hard or not, but instead you went the superficial way of arguing logic which is ultimately pointless and not actually going to get you a read that is useful because it always ends the same way.

tl;dr -- arguing logic is pointless. Except the function of voting in this game is based on logic. You vote for people because you have a reason to. This argument against argument is, I believe, his support for his next claim, which I go over in my fourth point.

Well context is required here; Specifically Thor and I arguing logic is pointless. There is more than logic to find scum though for example behavioural patterns.

4. Something I just noticed after reading some more is that Slandaar is basically just asking us to trust him because he's never wrong. Asking people to basically just follow on faith without reasoning it out themselves.

Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct and it is just a ridiculous strategy from a TownThor plus its always to do with how things are worded so at a minimum a TownThor should have at least tweaked a little.

Context is required again; I am talking about Thor and I's arguments not every argument I ever made on anyone.

[Slandaar]

I'm liking Slandaar less and less. I honestly feel like town Slandaar would have taken my advice and actually started to scum hunt, realizing he was locking horns in a dumb fight.

Thor is scum therefore it is no 'dumb fight'

???

[Slandaar]

In fact lets keep posting because I feel like asserting myself in this game now.

Apologising for nothing as a scumtell can be seen here;
Link

Game finished literally today.

Amazing. So, I suppose now those arguing (THOR) it isn't are going to prove that.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think Thor is serious about trying to lynch Slandaar. He read the situation, weighed his options, and decided that he could lynch Slandaar.

I don't think the strong language he's using describes his true feelings towards Slandaar.

It's an accusation of hypocrisy. Accusing someone of over-explaining while doing a line by line analysis. Everyone is hypocritical. You have to be, in this game, whether you know it or not.

Well, it turns out that this made Slandaar tunnel very aggressively on Thor. It's my guess that Thor then decided that Slandaar would be a good wagon to stay on, and even lynch. Thor's approach of a long line of questioning followed by a vote seems pre-meditated.

I'm the only one even close to have played as many games as Thor here, and I'll talk to you about uncertainty. Leading the town like that, from an argument you generated from your own line of questioning, it doesn't help you read into the game. It doesn't help other players to contribute. Thor would be probing TCold and others who have posted less, asking them to join him, so he could evaluate their play. He wouldn't put a general call out to lynch Slandaar, like a mob boss putting a hit out on a snitch. That doesn't help him as town. It helps someone with an agenda, and a plan to achieve it.

Vote: Thor

[Albert B. Rampage]

Putting it more succinctly, Thor putting a general call out to lynch Slandaar is hilariously scummy with zakk, TCold, Axxle, etc. having posted so little. It reads like someone who is interested in convincing others of his opinion, therefore manipulating the lynch, rather than peering through the veil using his own observational skills.

[N]

Vote Count 1.06

TCold

(0)

ICEninja

(0)

zakk

(0)

Garmr

(4) Axxle, zakk, TCold, Macros

toolenduso

(0)

Sir Bastion

(0)

Slandaar

(3) Maxous, Thor665, Sir Bastion

Thor665

(2) Slandaar, Albert B. Rampage

Macros

(0)

Maxous

(0)

GuthrieGov

(1) Garmr

Albert B. Rampage

(1) toolenduso

Axxle

(0)

Not Voting:

ICEninja, GuthrieGov

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-10-23 18:36:35)

[Garmr]

zakk-probably scum I don't like any of his reasons.
Albert- Hasn't been helpful all game, Jumped on my wagon with little reasoning and just is irritating. Scum
-off my wagon i have GG as a slight scum read.

Your vote is on the weakest of the three reads here. Why?

Well I made my vote earlier before I really looked at the wagon deeply and that was around the time I was asked to look onto my wagon. I was and still am having trouble deciding which wagon to place my vote down. Zakk is not posting much at all and bit of pressure may make him pick up his game. But Albert is posting more and a wagon on him and is more likely to slip.


VOTE: Zakk

[Macros]

LETS PULL UP THE SANDBAGS AND CHAT ABOUT THE FUCKING WAR!!

reading up

[Macros]

I can't even be arsed reading this up.

in my short read is ammounts to high fives and hand jobs over previous games.
Who gives a fuck. this one time I was a townie in the first ever game in mafiascum, guess what happen, some fucker shot me.

Right now, I'm looking at a creepy face that says he managed a full game with a ninja, thats right Albert, your face if fucking creepy, it automatically makes me think you are evil, you might want to look into that avatar. I havent finsihed reading, I cant be bother right now, I'll try again tomorrow