Newbie 584: Mark it "done"!

[Rishi]

Vote: Snailman8

For pretending to be an IC when he's clearly not.

Hi. I'm an IC. Feel free to ask me questions.

(Hi farside!)

[Rishi]

Unvote

Snailman8 is two votes away from being lynched, which is a bit early.

So, muffinhead, why the third vote on Snail?

[Rishi]

Also, for those of you without avatars, it's really helpful for us to tell people apart. Though if multiple people get similar avatars, like Nibbler from Futurama for example, then the entire purpose of avatars is defeated. So don't do that.

[Rishi]

The purpose of what I was saying was to spark conversation. I don't think I am being too cautious. I have seen plenty of newbies think that the first day of a game is supposed to last 2-3 real life days and, when they see a few votes on a person, they say, "Okay, I'll just go with the crowd and vote for that person too." And yes, I've seen townies do this. I have seen some really really badly played newbie games. As an IC, I would expect YOU to know that.

And you really think what I said was the scummiest thing you've seen so far? What about this?

fos: sd_reaper, not even i voted for a person who hasnt even posted yet when i first played. Seems very noob scumy if u know what i mean considering u dont know him whatsoever.

[Rishi]

I'm not taking it harshly. Sorry if my tone reflected that. However, I don't agree with the theory that townies need to be up front with their motives at every point. I wanted to see what kind of reaction I would get.

And, yes, it is possible that muffinhead didn't know there was a random voting stage. But he has said he played before. And he made the statement after making what was, essentially, a random vote. Is this a scumtell? Perhaps not. Maybe he's just being a newbie. But I would rather hear that from him.

[Rishi]

@rishi. What kind of reaction were you expecting in post 26?

Get an avatar and I'll answer your question.

[Rishi]

Also, for those of you without avatars, it's really helpful for us to tell people apart. Though if multiple people get similar avatars, like Nibbler from Futurama for example, then the entire purpose of avatars is defeated. So don't do that.

I already did ask nicely. It didn't work. It's time to resort to more drastic measures.

[Rishi]

I'd like to say that muffinhead's avatar is awesome. So very awesome.

I need to catch up a little in this game. Look for more thoughts in the next day or two.

[Rishi]

Would everyone here agree that if spz is scum then rishi is as well and vice versa? I reckon lets all keep an eye out.

Ugh this quote is terrible. I don't know how I missed it the first time, but we are on page two and you want people to agree about scum partners based on one comment?

Who said that? *is lazy*

Muffinhead.

By the way, I am not trying to lurk in plain sight. More insight coming within the next 48 hours. I promise.

[Rishi]

Remeber i am sill waiting for a response from spz and the longer it takes the more sus i will become of it. ill post back in a minute.

Here's what I don't like about this statement. There could be a lot of reasons why spz hasn't posted, most of which have nothing to do with the game. He could be busy or he could have found out the game isn't as much fun as he thought it'd be, or he might have simply forgotten. Until we know that, it's really easy to pick on him, but that doesn't mean he's scum.

I can't tell if muffinhead is an overly aggressive townie or if he is simply newbie scum. He is playing really badly, as someone pointed out. If we agree that muffinhead is a bad player, there are two schools of thought on this. One school says we try and see through the bad play and determine his alignment. Another school says that we just lynch him anyway, since, even if he's a townie, he'll be a liability to the town later in the game.

I think, since this is a newbie game, we should try to figure out muffinhead's alignment. In another game, I would probably advocate just lynching the bad player.

As for the game lasting a couple weeks (I think it was ting who said it), the DAY might last a couple weeks. The game will probably go a month or two, on average.

By the way, ting asked me a while ago what the point of my initial posts were. They were to jump start discussion and get us out of the random stage. I realized I would take some heat from them, but I think we've moved on to a point where we're actually playing the game rather than casting suspicions around willy-nilly. I loathe the random stage and I'll often say something odd or controversial at that point to bring it to an end as quickly as possible.

[Rishi]

Correct me if im wrong but i have posted more then anyone else here making the most contributions possible.

Posting the most doesn't mean you're contributing the most.

[Rishi]

Xdaamno is right, of course. The "no lying" variation of Mafia would be a very boring game indeed.

[Rishi]

Just out of curiosity, why are people still voting me? I know I am not participating in this game as much as I should be, but I haven't really seen people make any solid arguments against me in a while. So, Xdaamno and SD_Reaper, if you have reasons that you think I'm scum, I'd like to hear them, because you haven't been discussing it in a while.

[Rishi]

Rishi, now that I look back on it you seem to be even more suspicious than i thought. Since page 3 up till now, you have not posted anything insightful, defended yourself, or posted any of your suspicions. Even I, who doesnt post much (but plans in posting more), has stated some of my suspicions and and tried to defend myself. But it seems you arent contributing that much at all which means that you could either be a really inactive player in the game or you could scum who is just trying to be careful.

Or, I'm just really busy. I'm starting to get less busy and I'll have more time for this game, but sometimes real life interferes with Mafia.

Also, icemanE, EBWOP means "Edit By Way of Post." You'll notice we're not allowed to edit what we say in a game thread (in case someone says something suspicious by accident, they can't cover it up) and so our only option to edit what we say is by making another post.

[Rishi]

Just out of curiosity, why are people still voting me? I know I am not participating in this game as much as I should be, but I haven't really seen people make any solid arguments against me in a while. So, Xdaamno and SD_Reaper, if you have reasons that you think I'm scum, I'd like to hear them, because you haven't been discussing it in a while.

Hey, Xdaamno. Not sure if you missed this post, but I'd like an answer to this.

[Rishi]

What's lynch - 1?

It means that someone is one vote away from being lynched. It's often abbreviated as L -1. L -2 means someone is two votes away, etc.

[Rishi]

So I've been sitting here thinking a lot about this today, and I came up with an idea somebody has probably already had many times before me, but anyway:

Putting someone in L -1 is dangerous, obviously, but who is more suspicious? The person who puts that person into L -1 or the final, fifth person who votes for them? Not knowing the answer to that question, and for the sake of this experiment, I'm going to

unvote

and

Vote: SD_Reaper

Obviously this could go either way. The guy could be totally innocent, but it seems to me like it would be worth it to swap one innocent guy for a bit of info that might lead you to finding out who's scum. If this is a horrible mistake tell me ASAP cause I wouldn't want to screw things up. I have heard this called "Bandwagoning", but like I said, I'm not voting for him just to see him lynched, or to rush the pace of the game. If someone else drops a vote on this guy, I would be really suspicious of him. I can see people viewing this as a scummy move: maybe I'm setting this up so that some who doesn't like SD can get him killed, or I'm doing this so my partner can cast the final vote. But I'm not, I would really appreciate some advice soon though, as earlier stated I wouldn't want to mess things up.

It depends. Sometimes the person who places the L -1 is more suspicious than the person who drops the hammer (what we say when someone places the final vote). It really depends on the justification that a person gives. Almost any vote without justification is suspicious.

You're not messing anything up by voting for SD. I think he's definitely done some questionable things and probably deserves the vote. However, what I don't like about your post is that you seem so wishy-washy in the vote. It's almost like you're apologizing as you're placing it, and asking the rest of the players for permission for putting on the vote. The problem with asking permission is that, if SD turns out to be scum, then you get credit for the lynch. If he turns up town, then you can always say that we told you that it was okay to vote for SD. You're playing both sides of the fence, and that strikes me as a little suspicious.

[Rishi]

Hey everybody!!
yeah im one of the new guys lol (first online game)
nice to meet everybody:D
vote: Twiglees

This is from the first page, the random voting stage. So he's a new guy, and doesn't know what he's doing... but then he votes for someone who hasn't even posted yet? There's nothing unnecessarily "wrong" with that, but it just seems bizarre. Everything about this guy seems extremely fishy. Kill him.

Weak argument. Read some games. The random stage is just that... random. You can't surmise anything from votes made during that time. Everyone is fair game for ridiculous reasons, including people who have not posted.

[Rishi]

I don't like how SD and muffinhead swooped in for the kill after I noted some suspicions of icemanE. The worst part is that they are mostly rehashing my arguments.

[Rishi]

Rishi, i got a question for you. (help clerify my suspicions) Do you think there is a high possibility for IcemanE to be scum, with the evidence supported in previous qosts? Why or why not?

High possibility? It depends what you mean by high. If I had to list the three most suspcious players, icemanE would be on that list right now (along with you and muffinhead) but I'm not ready to lynch any of you just yet.

And I want to hear more from ting.

[Rishi]

Ok so question for icemanE because i like to adress people with questions as u said lol,
anyways, who do u think now is most likely to be scum

X and SD

Why X? This is the first I've heard of this, I think.

[Rishi]

However, I feel that he is most likely to be scum due to saying thar Rishi is scum.

How does suspecting Rishi to be scum make me most likely to be scum? Its just a suspicion that has been going mind. I dont see how suspecting Rishi of scum makes me appear scummy. Please explain to me why suspecting Rishi makes me look like mafia.

I actually somewhat agree with this. Until you know whether or not I am scum, you can't call someone scum for suspecting me. Now, if I get lynched or killed tonight and it is proven that I'm town, then the argument holds a little more weight.

However, it is true that SD has made some incredibly poor arguments against me. But his vote isn't on me at the moment, so we could chalk it up to an early suspicion.

Also, muffinhead, what question are you still waiting on an answer about?

[Rishi]

ok rishi this is the question i asked

I don't like how SD and muffinhead swooped in for the kill after I noted some suspicions of icemanE. The worst part is that they are mostly rehashing my arguments

Ok this doesnt make sense to me, how did i swoop in for the kill for asking questions to icemane? I wanted to c him under pressure and how he would respond to pressure. Also how did I rephase ur comment rishi when i said 3 times more then u

You did rephrase my comments. I write more succinctly than you and say three times as much with my comments.

But my point is that no one was suspecting icemanE before I brought it up and it seemed awfully convenient that you started questioning him once I brought it up.

[Rishi]

FOS: Snail and SD_Reaper

Blowing the 'mistake' completely out of proportion here, IMO.

I don't think Snailman blew this out of proportion, but SD_Reaper certainly did.

Want to hear from ting and farside... I think farside is back Wednesday or Thursday.

[Rishi]

mod

request prod farside22 because he said he would be back by the 8th and still hasnt returned, also what happens to ting, i dont believe he has possted enough and still should be replaced cause that post meant nothing.

A post is a post. It doesn't matter what it says.

[Rishi]

I'm waiting for farside to come back. I want to hear her thoughts. I will likely vote soon afterwords.

[Rishi]

I understand the frustration by newbies, but you guys have to understand that things often take a long time on here. I was in a newbie game for over six months. In fact, I qualified as an IC (from playing other games) before finishing my first newbie.

So, if you're getting bored with this game, consider signing up for a second game, if you think you can handle it. If not, check out some of the discussion boards. We have an active and fairly close-knit community here.

And, for those of you that are younger, I don't mean to put anyone down, but some of us have very busy lives. Have a little patience and cut your fellow players some slack.

Now that I said that, farside, you really need to post your thoughts. A lot has happened since you went on vacation.

[Rishi]

Also, a rule question: does the lynch happen the minute we hit 5, or do the votes need to be confirmed? In other words

IF

I were to vote for SD and some else jumped on to put him at 5 does he get lynched immediately or do we need to confirm that we want him to hang?

It's immediate. If someone were to vote and put someone at 5, then that person is lynched, even if there's an unvote in the very next post and the mod hasn't checked in.

The stage after someone is lynched but before the mod posts the death scene is known as "twilight." You can't change the lynch, but you can still post. Most mods allow posting in twilight, though some don't.

However, personally, I don't recommend doing it (other than informational questions, like, "Is that a lynch?"). It serves no real purpose other than making you look scummy. Other ICs may disagree on my take.

And, muffinhead, I'm a Gen X-er, which means I'm apathetic and cynical. That probably doesn't describe me, but it still means that I don't expect this game to end any time soon and I don't really care.

[Rishi]

Now that I said that, farside, you really need to post your thoughts. A lot has happened since you went on vacation.

I recently found out from another thread that farside had a baby. Congratulations and I apologize for pressuring you to post. Take your time to get back into this game.

[Rishi]

Rishi: I notice you haven't really said much, but done a lot IC wise. Do you have your top suspects in mind. I appreciate the fact that you haven't quick voted and let people state there peace. I have a good vibe from you as well.

I do. I think SD_Reaper is likely scum. That's not an original thought. I agree that muffinhead has been playing better, but his early play seemed so scummy that it's hard for him to recover from that. He might just be learning to cover his tracks better. Those would be my two picks for scum. I actually have a fairly positive feeling about IcemanE, but no solid reasoning for it.

If the scum are others in the game, well, they are playing extremely well.

[Rishi]

Actually...

Vote: SD_Reaper

I especially don't like his post, which could be distancing where he's trying to set himself up as a confirmed townie if IcemanE is scum. Seems fishy even though I think IcemanE is town.

Plus there's this little gem from just a few minutes ago:

If im really number one on yours and another persons scum list then this gonna bad for town.

An appeal to emotion, rather than logic, is often a scumtell.

[Rishi]

Unvote

That was the right thing to do, SD, if you really are the doctor.

If SD is lying, and there is a real doctor in the house, then now is the time to counterclaim.

In any case, let's not lynch anyone until we can talk this out.

[Rishi]

1. See if anyone will counter claim. If no one does then my claim is legitamate unless it's one of the two senarios with no doctor. I doubt anyone will counterclaim because i really am the doctor, but by all means someone come out if you wish to challenge me.

2. I will be the first nightkill since i am a townie with a "power role". My death will prove my claim. If i somehow survive night one (which i doubt it) then feel free to vote me out.

He is exactly right. We don't necessary believe him out of hand, but the risk of lynching the doctor is too great. The doctor is also too powerful for the Mafia to allow to live.

Yes, there is a possibility that the Mafia will not kill the doctor and then say, "Oh, look. He's not dead. He must be lying." But then the people who advance that argument will be obvious.

In the absence of a counterclaim, we need to believe the claim.

And SD, you were about to get lynched. I think claiming was the right move. Your analysis was dead-on. It does give the Mafia an advantage, but, if we lynched you, they would've found out that we had a doctor anyway, and would've gotten a free townie kill.

I don't necessarily like the piling on IcemanE. Yeah, we should pressure him, but some skepticism isn't necessarily all bad. Plus, he's a newbie. Most of us are familiar what to do in the face of a claim, but most people are here to learn.

[Rishi]

Yeah, the doctor can't protect himself. He's likely dead if he's telling the truth.

[Rishi]

In the absence of a counterclaim, we need to believe the claim.

Unless SD is scum, lieing and trying to save himself. After all if someone else piped up with 'I'm really the Doctor' then even if we did lynch SD the other claimer dies.

Yeah, but then the real doctor knows, for a fact, that SD is lying and is letting scum go free. It's worth trading a power role for a guarantee of catching at least one scum.

Remember, the town wins or loses as a team. There are no extra points for survival.

[Rishi]

Rishi is right that a counter claim now will lead to a doctor-scum exchange, which will benefit the town more than it hurts us, but seeing as how he's just said it, the scum, if sd_reaper is telling the truth, have just been warned not to fakeclaim. Were you aware of that Rishi?

This is a newbie game, and so most people are here to learn. I normally wouldn't lay out the possibilities so bluntly in a regular game, but I want to demonstrate the thought processes that every player should be going through when confronted with a situation like this. Isn't that the purpose of having ICs in the game?

[Rishi]

Well i heard as a fact that newbies will NOT vote their fellow scum partner out. I believe this because when i was scum on another game they used this to find out who isnt scum even though i only placed 2 votes in. Also because it was very true and i literally had no intentions of voting partners out.

If u look up sd,icemane and twiggles have at some stage voted each other. Therefore if my theory is correct then only a maximum of 1 newbe (unless zero is scum) can be scum. That is y i have been focusing on the more experienced.

Haha, that's a really weak theory, and it obviously isn't a FACT that noob scum partners don't vote each other out - by the definition of the word fact, its not a fact, nor can it possibly be a fact, so your theory is more or less entirely debunked.

Well, muffinhead is partially right that newbies (those who have never played) are often reluctant to vote for their partners. But to say that it never happens is silly. Plus, many of the players in this game have played before.

As to farside's comment that newb scum often looks for an easy lynch, it's true. When I saw that Iceman was suddenly at three votes, I thought there was a bandwagon which, to me, seemed like someone trying to get a quicklynch. Now I see that farside is the only one who voted for Iceman after he didn't believe SD's claim. I don't know. I was ready for a lynch, but now it seems we have to talk this out some more.

By the way, Iceman, you did eventually unvote, but your initial reaction is more telling. After all, you were certainly influenced by what other people were saying.

I want to hear from Xdaamno. He hasn't posted since the claim.

[Rishi]

Out of curiosity, does the mod reveal the role of whoever is lynched on the next day?

Yes.

[Rishi]

Right now i am still debating on what i did was a good idea or not. Because this limits the possible senarios. The scum know right now that if they have a roleblocker then there is a cop. If there is no roleblocker than there is no cop. Although we have saved one townie, the mafia currently have more information than us town. I hope i did the right thing.

question who said this quote above, i have looked over the last 3 pages and cant find it.

If you actually read the quote, you'll see that it's referring to the claim. SD_Reaper said this.

Xdaamno is right, though. There is no correlation between the frequency of posts and alignment.

[Rishi]

As a clarification, I meant frequency of content Smile

Ah yes, ok. But nonetheless, there obviously IS a correlation, from a speculative standpoint, between frequency of content and alignment. Ever heard of lurking? That's infrequent content, and is incredibly suspicious. I feel the same way about posting "too much" content.

Bzzt. Wrong. Thanks for the playing, though. Perhaps you'd like a version of our home game?

There are many, many reasons why someone might appear to be lurking, many of which have absolutely nothing to do with alignment. People get busy, lose interest, lost Internet access, etc. Intentional lurking probably is bad, but how often can you tell if someone is actively and intentionally lurking or is just someone who has less free time than others?

Too much content usually is a function of having a lot of free time. Also, I've found that newbies generally post more than established players. They come out gunning (regardless of whether they are town or scum).

Now, in a face-to-face game, there is sometimes a correlation between how much a person speaks and their alignment. But, I mean, in that case, you're all just sitting there. Everyone has the same opportunity to talk.

So, IcemanE, who hadn't heard of this game until a few weeks ago, what makes you smarter than the ICs?

[Rishi]

First of all, knowledge of how a forum game works has no relation to intelligence.

True, but here's a tip for you.

Be nice to the guy who has said, on several occasions, that he doesn't think you're scum.

Vote: icemanE

[Rishi]

Hmm.

I was thinking that, if icemanE was a townie, his reaction would be to call me scum for the vote over a relatively weak reason.

But now he's backpedaling. Maybe he knows I'm not scum because he's scum?

[Rishi]

Rishi, the fact that you put icemanE at lynch one pretty much destroys my Spz (iceman) Rishi correlation. Besides that hunch i had, i have pretty much no other reason to suspect you. Therefore, you are no longer a suspect in my book. haha

It's either that, or he's played an incredibly good game so far, hiding behind the fact that he's an IC, and has actually been waiting this whole time for the perfect moment to put me at L-1 and rid himself of any suspicion. Just something to keep in mind.

Even if I were scum (which I'm not), I wouldn't make myself so obvious on Day 1. Your lynch if you're town (which is questionable) does not win the game for the scum. This is only Day 1. The earliest the town can lose Day 3.

It's funny that you can see that it's a bad idea for others to post constantly and yet you don't take your own advice.

[Rishi]

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here... are you saying there's no real difference between your lynch and mine? I actually find this post to be a bit suspicious, especially the (which I'm not), which is of course unnecessary if its actually the case. Also, would you make it more obvious in day 3 than in day 1? And if so, why?

It is necessary to mention that I am not scum. Otherwise, some people would think I slipped up and admitted to being scum.

I think, if the town was about to lose and I were scum, I would push a little harder. It doesn't make sense for scum to push really hard for a townie lynch on Day 1, because once that person turns up town, then people are going to look at who was pushing the lynch. If the town is going to lose anyway, the scum can afford to push a little harder, because, well, the town won't have a chance to look back on what the town said.

And it's convenient that you are calling me suspicious after I said that you should call me suspicious. You're like a trained seal.

Rishi this doesnt make sense to me. Could u further explain y he would call u scum if hes town?

I mentioned that he should be nice to me because I was the one saying he wasn't scum and then voted for him. Then, he should have said, "Wait, you're voting for me for the dumbest reason ever? You must be scum!" However, if he's scum, he knows that I am not scum. Therefore, he decides to start kissing up to me.

In my experience, a cornered townie tends to go on the offensive, but cornered scum tends to go on the defensive. Iceman didn't start going on the offensive until I pointed this out to him.

I dont know whether I should put the final vote on or not. Over the last 2 pages iceman has contributed the most info and has posted more then me. If he was town and lynched then he would be a big loss.

There you go with the fallacy that quantity of posts somehow correlates with the quality of posts.

[Rishi]

Lets say we dont vote him out and kill someone else. If hes not mafia they wont kill him at night and we will see him day 2. The fact that he will be there day 2 will cast even more suspicion on him and divert our attention to him because he was number one on the list. We will constantly have him in the back of our heads. We have enough information to make a logical and high percentage chance of lynching a mafia. If it is not him and we lynch him, we can make a fresh start and reevaluate our posts. If its not him and we let him live we wont really have gotten anywhere (as he is still top of suspect list), and we will have just wasted a day.

Excellent post. SD brings up a lot of great points here.

I have seen people wriggle out of a lynch and then stick around for a few days, but it's rare. If Iceman is town, and we lynch him today, it'll be a little bad, but as SD said, we get a fresh start tomorrow. If he's Mafia and we don't lynch him and he goes on to survive or win the game, we'll all feel like idiots.

[Rishi]

"Ah well I suppose it has come to this… Such is life."

Vote: Rishi

See you in hell!!!!!!!!

???

If this game is too stressful for you, perhaps you should try something a little less hostile, like Candy Land.

[Rishi]

Unvote

Seems like genuine frustration. I don't know if scum would act like that.

[Rishi]

OHI.


Can someone get me up too date on what has happened and who's suspicious etc....


I don't feel like reading 15+ Pages.

I would recommend that you read the game yourself. I know it's a little bit of reading, but anyone's summary is going to be biased. The only way to get a fair view of what happened is to read.

[Rishi]

Unvote

Seems like genuine frustration. I don't know if scum would act like that.

Uh oh... you aren't trying to calm me down because I'm close to the truth, are you?

No. I was hoping to make you helpful again. Now I see that you are just going to go through the rest of the game with a chip on your shoulder.

Vote: icemanE

[Rishi]

Could be a lie, but, for now, I would not feel comfortable lynching a claimed doctor.

[Rishi]

Secondly, you are getting more suspicious that you would forget that i am doctor, it was not some small post, we had like a whole page. So your unvote and vote swap is just as suspicious as when iceman mistaked your name for i think muffinhead.

Yeah, I agree. How do you miss the claim? I'd like to hear answers from both Xdaamno and Metalic on this.

[Rishi]

Secondly, you are getting more suspicious that you would forget that i am doctor, it was not some small post, we had like a whole page. So your unvote and vote swap is just as suspicious as when iceman mistaked your name for i think muffinhead.

Yeah, I agree. How do you miss the claim? I'd like to hear answers from both Xdaamno and Metalic on this.

I had a fuzzy memory. I remembered the doc claim talk, just forgot SD was the one it claimed. Anyway, what are you suggesting? I'm trying to pretend there was no claim, therefore confuzzling the town and winning the game as scum?

Good point. I don't know how many games you're in, but I've done this before too. But my point is that, if you are forgetting about the claim and have a "fuzzy memory" with respect to this game, then why should we put any faith in your scumdar?

[Rishi]

@ Rishi

Do you have anything to say about my post 394? You didn't acknowledge it, and it seems like something you might want to do.

Nah. I'm good.

[Rishi]

That was so cool I decided to make it my signature!

It would make a better signature if you also had your question quoted right above it. Give it some context.

In any case, I'm just trying to get away from the argument we've been having. I think we've terribly misunderstood each other and I think both of us are pointing fingers at the other not based on any rational explanation, but simply on emotion. If we continue down this path, there's a good chance that you would get lynched today and I would get lynched tomorrow if you turned up town. Then, it'd be two townies down and little information since we've dominated the thread a little.

Unvote

[Rishi]

Firstly, the quotes that are not individually explained are attributed to what I said in the top paragraph.

Secondly, your immediate vote without hearing if I had any good explanation that I didn't post at the time might suggest to me you're trying to distance yourself from the very reasons I gave.

This is the second time you bring my name up with crap reasoning. The first time I asked you you said nothing in response to my question. Now you have these quotes and then vote and you want me to ask a second time for a reason? I thought your quotes were your reason. Still liking my vote where it stands.

I'll do a read, though I know he has said at least a few things that were fairly helpful, but that could just be IC instinct.

He seems a little inattentive, but I will do an isolated re-read on him in the next day or two.

[Rishi]

@ Rishi:

I've been calling you "he" this whole time. Is that accurate?

That is accurate. Most players (though not all) have gender tags next to their posts, including myself.

As for this whole things between X and farside, it seems odd. I think that they are both tunneling a little on each other.

I really want to hear more from the players who almost never post, especially ting and Twiglees. If one of them is scum, they could just be sitting around waiting for the townies to tear each other apart.

[Rishi]

Where's ting?

[Rishi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_symbol

Apparently, they don't teach these things in school.

[Rishi]

I say that if we lynch Rishi we'll learn a whole hell of a lot. If we kill Rishi and SD survives the night, we'll know he is scum and we can lynch him, resulting in a town win, since he obviously won't kill himself during the night phase. The obvious risk involved is that we are down a doctor if SD is killed during the night stage... BUT he will probably be killed tonight anyway, if he isn't scum, so I think it's worth the risk, for sure.

Not necessarily. I think that the scum could target someone else in order to try and frame SD. Just because he's alive tomorrow doesn't mean he's scum.

[Rishi]

I suppose you're right. But SD would have an awfully hard time explaining himself if he DID survive. And he'd die in night 2 in night two anyways if he's the doctor, I think, I can't imagine scum taking the risk of keeping him alive into day 3, so it would be worth it to lynch him day 2.

If I'm WAY off base let me know, I am after all a newb still but I think i'm onto something.

Of course he couldn't explain himself. That scum are the ones who decided not to target him. In fact, if he did have an explanation, it's more likely he'd be scum. Because if he really is the doctor, what could he say other than, "Umm... I don't know why they didn't target me. They're probably trying to frame me."?

Yeah, it is risky to leave the doctor alive. In this setup, though, there's a 50% chance, if we have a doctor, that we also have a roleblocker, which removes the risk somewhat.

[Rishi]

If you didn't claim doctor, SD, you'd be very very dead right now. So there's a reason we're going 19 pages. You did the right thing by claiming, but it did throw a wrench into the works.

And it's not good to be completely inflexible with your vote.

[Rishi]

no chance for the opposite reason. The 2 of them have agreed with each other through the entire match. As 2 ics being scum partners, that just wouldnt happen because it would be too obvious.

Roles are assigned randomly. There is a possibility that two ICs could be the two scum.

[Rishi]

Mafia games are fun, but when it looks like were going in circles and not moving anywhere, it gets boring.

Also, if you're getting bored, I would suggest using your time productively and finding an avatar.

[Rishi]

Vote: Xdaamno

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish trying to lynch the claimed doctor. If you forgot about the claim once, I can understand that. But twice? And in your reasoning for your vote, you don't even say why you don't believe the claim.

So, obviously, you don't believe SD's claim. I'm more willing to say that he's a bad player, not necessarily a scummy one, which is why I do believe his claim. So, why are you ignoring it?

[Rishi]

Xdammo is at lynch one and he is probably the second most suspicous character in this game. If you people feel comfortable and dont raise any objections i will place the final vote on him in 6 hours from now, in order to make sure thats what the majority wants. I am comfortable with it or iceman. So post your thoughts...

Don't be wishy-washy. I'm not saying that you should vote for him, but you can make up your own mind.

Here is another reason you seem scummy (I believe your claim, but you drop like 2-3 scumtells with every post): asking for "permission" to lynch someone is often a scumtell. You play both sides of the fence there. If the person is scum, then you get credit for the lynch. If the person is a townie, you can say, "But you all said I could drop the hammer!" If someone doesn't think Xdaamno should be lynched, then he or she can unvote, but you need to make up your own mind.

[Rishi]

I'm gonna look back to the post which he claimed, and if he asked anyone else to claim before that; if he did, and you're not voting him, you're either scum or bad at mafia, and I say that from the bottom of my heart.

I agree that SD is acting very, very scummy. My point is that he's a better lynch later on down the road than Day 1. If he's still here on Day 3, for example, then we should definitely lynch him. Right now, there's a chance he's telling the truth and I don't want to lynch the doctor on Day 1. If he is scum, let's catch his buddy first.

[Rishi]

Unvote

Glad that X is finally seeing some sense. I don't want someone to drop the hammer before we get some more analysis. The fact is, if X is town, we could use his insight. Even if he dies, we can look back at his posts later.

[Rishi]

Come on Rishi, this is at least the third time you put someone at lynch one and then unvoted them, your indecisiveness is really frustrating. Its people like you that make this day never end..........

Bzzt. Sorry. Wrong answer. You win a copy of our home game, except we only have one, so you'll have to wait until Iceman is done with it.

It's people who don't contribute or vote that slow games down.

And stop whining. I'm really sick of it. You had the opportunity to drop the hammer, but you decided not to. If you really want X gone, then put him at L -1 and maybe someone else will hammer.

You keep blaming others for making the day go long when you're part of the problem, not the solution. You've had a vote on Iceman for THREE WEEKS, the only vote on Iceman. NEWSFLASH: Iceman will probably not be lynched today. If you want this day to move along, then contribute something meaningful. And then put your vote in a place where it will make a difference.

And, by the way, yet another scumtell. Telling people to vote for other players but not doing it yourself...

[Rishi]

Or a face-to-face Mafia game.

I actually prefer playing live games. Unfortunately, it's hard to find a dozen people who want to play and all have simultaneous free time.

[Rishi]

Yeah, I don't like how SD keeps hiding behind his doctor claim any time anyone says anything critical of him.

So, SD, X is not trying to get you lynched, but you really are acting scummy. The vote is there to remind you of it. You will not get four more votes today. X's vote on you is not indicative of scum.

[Rishi]

Heh. I think buddying is one of the best scum tactics out there. But, it's a bad tactic to buddy up to a person who may be lynched soon. If I were scum and was going to buddy, I'd pick someone likely to survive to the endgame.

For you newbs, buddying is when a scum agrees a lot with a townie and starts to defend them. That townie then feels good about that and starts to gain a positive impression of the scum. It's really quite effective.

[Rishi]

I feel our votes are getting somewhat pointless, lets just keep going in circles, me, then ice, then x, what out muffin you could be next L-1 person... lol

unvote

You just keep looking for the next lynch. Now that the X lynch looks less viable, you just jump off the bandwagon? Why?

And don't answer, "Because I'm the doctor and I can do what I want!"

[Rishi]

Hey, folks, when quoting people, it's helpful to know who you are quoting.

In order to do this, in the first quote tag, write (quote="Rishi") for example with brackets instead of parenthesis.

It'll look like this.

Quote tags are the bomb!

[Rishi]

Vote: farside22

I know that she has a good reason to be inactive, but she has posted in some other games yesterday, but didn't say anything in this one, at a point where this game has been its most interesting.

Also, she was kind of leading the charge on Xdaamno for fairly thin reasons and, at least for now, I'm liking X's play. And, of the active players (muffinhead, ting, iceman, SD and X), the scummiest is SD, but I've said multiple times I'm against lynching a claimed doctor on Day 1. I don't have enough of a read on Metalic or Twiglees to support a lynch there.

So, at the moment, farside is probably the person I'm most willing to lynch. I don't like lynching good players because, if they're town, they can be a huge asset but I don't see another way to go at the moment.

[Rishi]

I feel our votes are getting somewhat pointless, lets just keep going in circles, me, then ice, then x, what out muffin you could be next L-1 person... lol

unvote

You just keep looking for the next lynch. Now that the X lynch looks less viable, you just jump off the bandwagon? Why?

And don't answer, "Because I'm the doctor and I can do what I want!"

Please answer this.

[Rishi]

It does not mean i will that will just jump on the next bandwagon, it means that im waiting to cast my vote at a time where i feel it will make a positive and significant impact.

I say tomato. You say tomato.

Why is X not the play? Forgive me, but I stated his comment and actions are crap. He wants to lynch a claimed doctor! Are we nuts that this is okay?! Sure SD is playing terrible and I can't believe X leading the charge against a claim doctor is ok in anyone's book. My vote stays.

I think X is experienced enough to realize that SD is not going to get lynched. X has essentially said the vote is there to remind SD that he is not currently acting in a pro-town fashion. I could see SD picking up another stray vote, but I'd be shocked if he was lynched today.

[Rishi]

EBWOP: That came out wrong. I don't want a lynch

yet

, but I'm certain of the lynch when it does occur. My vote is there for aesthetics, if you will.

My thoughts are you didn't read further.

[Rishi]

Also, stop hiding behind the fact that you claimed doctor, SD and respond to the points against you. The more you say that you are the doctor, the less believable it is.

[Rishi]

sd there is a thing called voting. If u r suspecious of someone u vote for them.

or FOS, but then again, do i really need to. Anyone who has been paying attention to this game knows that i suspect iceman of being mafia.

Yes. You should vote for someone you find suspicious. If someone doesn't have any votes (or has very few votes), there's no harm in voting. When you wait for someone else to vote a person before you place your vote, you seem opportunistic.

[Rishi]

What

exactly

am I doing that you think is scummy? Don't be wishy-washy. If I can then disprove what you find scummy about me, are you going to back off or keep blundering on for the sake of your own pride?

He's probably basing it off the fact that other people are suspicious of you. It's always safe to follow the herd.

[Rishi]

Remember when X was at L-1, no one hammered him. Maybe mafia was hesitant to hammer him because hes one of them.

Hmm.... weren't you the one who just about to hammer X but was too reluctant to do so?

Ha. I was going to say the same thing. You beat me to it.

[Rishi]

See my sig for details of why I'm quiet/ busy. I'm still up for lynch X. No one yet has made me understand how someone who is up for lynching the doctor is not scummie. I'm not sure about ting or twiggles. I keep thinking about how one sided the votes were on iceman and no one hammered. I would think at a certain point scum would have hammered so either Iceman is scum and the town isn't paying attention or both scum was on his lynch. I think an Iceman lynch or X lynch would tell us something at this point.

So why do you believe SD's claim? What has he done to convince you that he is really the doctor?

[Rishi]

like this is my first game, and i think i cannot play multiple games until i have completed at least one. And wow we are still on the freakin first day. Its been forever!!

You are allowed to play in another non-newbie game, but you're only allowed one newbie game at a time.

A deadline is never good.

[Rishi]

Does anyone have an actual case on X other than the fact that he wants to lynch the scummiest player in the game?

[Rishi]

Does anyone have an actual case on X other than the fact that he wants to lynch the scummiest player in the game?

Its widely accepted that it is bad strategy.

Right. It's your first game. So where have you acquired this nuanced understanding of the game?

And, really, you should stay out of these arguments if you want us to believe your claim. I really don't see how your vote on X is anything more than OMGUS.

[Rishi]

For me to openly say that i want a lynch somewhat soon i think is a town tell, as no scum would just say that openly.

???

Explain.

Please tell me some of your other scum tells that i have shown so I can defend myself.

We've (me, X and Iceman) have been pointing out your scumtells all game. Instead of responding to the points we've been making, you've just been screaming, "I'm the doctor! Don't lynch me!"

Read the friggin' game. If you want to avoid getting lynched, you're going to have to do better than just saying you're the doctor and actually consider and respond to what was said earlier.

And X and Ice have convinced me.

Unvote, Vote: SD_Reaper

[Rishi]

Considering that I was suspicious of farside before, OGML doesn't impress me much. Much like his avatar, he's galloping in for the rescue and seeing giants when there are only windmills. The authoritative tone and cozying up to pretty much everyone except X could be a scumplay.

However, maybe he's providing the outside perspective that we need. In any case, my vote on SD stays until he plays better. It might be his first game, but, considering his impatience, I think he definitely has time to do something a little more than hide behind his doctor claim. My vote will stay to remind him that he's acting scummy and when he stops acting scummy, my vote will go away. I don't think he's in any danger of being lynched.

And OGML - your tips to SD, at least to me, sound like "directing." In other words, a better player giving advice to his scumbuddy in the thread.

[Rishi]

I really really don't like ting's assessment that anyone who is thinking of lynching SD must be scum. It's kind of ridiculous. Even ting himself admits that SD is playing poorly.

One thing to consider is that we will have to deal with this dilemma pretty much every day. The Mafia would be kind of crazy to kill SD now, if he's really the doc (considering how likely he is to be lynched). In fact, if the Mafia has a roleblocker, there's no risk to leave him alive - they can simply negate his protection. So, tomorrow we'll have the same argument about whether or not to lynch SD. We'll probably then lynch another one of his attackers and then suddenly be in lynch-or-lose when we actually have to figure out whether SD is the doc or not. At least, if we lynch him now, then it's over. The argument ends and we can move on to some other line of conversation tomorrow.

[Rishi]

Mm, I'm not happy with this. To my knowledge, my logic has been perfect recently and you guys even agree with me regarding SD; yet you use phrases like don't lynch 'yet' -_-

I have no desire to lynch you.

[Rishi]

I think the discussion has gone as far as it can go. I think muffinhead and Alabraska J need to vote.

[Rishi]

Hey guys. Good job.

For the record, even though SD really was the doctor, I still think we should have lynched him Day 1. As I've said in this game, the scum would've been crazy to kill SD on Night 1, and you guys faced the same dilemma on Day 2. His lynch was probably inevitable. At least if we lynched him Day 1, then we could have had a fresh start on Day 2.

But, you guys pulled it out in a tough lynch-or-lose situation two days in a row. I think the newbie townies did well this game.

[Rishi]

Also I believe this goes into the record books for longest newbe game. WOOOHOOO.

Not even close. I was in a newbie game that lasted over six months. And that's when they only had 7 players.