Mini Normal 1775 END!

[chilledtea]

/confirm

[chilledtea]

VOTE: chilledtea

Hot tea is better.

I think we just found our first conf scum guys. Clear indication of lying - lynch all liars.

VOTE: knightmare

[chilledtea]

Defensiveness over minor things is a scum tell imo.

[chilledtea]

VOTE: Sayaka Maizono

[chilledtea]

VOTE: Sayaka Maizono

Y

Bcoz ynot.

Anyway, I think knight is town, you are town, and that Sakura is town. This was indeed useful.

[chilledtea]

Bcoz ynot.

Anyway, I think knight is town, you are town, and that Sakura is town. This was indeed useful.

I probably agree on Sakura. Y knight?

Because his talk with sakura didn't seem that scummy. RVS is supposed to be for reactions. He did generate it.
My initial read of him is town.

[chilledtea]

I am finding you town because of your interaction with knightmare. It town vs town imo.

[chilledtea]

VOTE: Madonna

Also

fos : Goodlordwill

[chilledtea]

Both Goodlordwill and madonna seem fake to me in their posts.

Early town reads : smith, knight, sakura, expedience.

The other S girl needs to post more.

[chilledtea]

VOTE: Madonna

Also

fos : Goodlordwill

Bad vote

Why? I think Madonna is scum.

Lowell is prob scum too.

[chilledtea]

There are probably 3 scum in the game. I think that is sufficient guesswork regarding setup.

[chilledtea]

Oh all right.

VOTE: Lowell

[chilledtea]

I think Lowell is scum. His overconfidence is without reason.

[chilledtea]

Like Knight isn't confscum or anything. But he is sure of it. He doesn't really have a reason for his confidence and that makes me think he is faking his confidence.

I mean I get he might have thought knight is scum, but I think we all generally have a doubt in our minds regarding everyone.

[chilledtea]

My gut says that lowell is scum. He says that we should follow our gut and kill and be happy. So lets lynch him then.

[chilledtea]

Oh man.

Boon is scum, lowell is prob scum and madonna is prob scum too. Although madonna is a slight read.

Can we just decide on one of these. I would go for boon though.

[chilledtea]

One thing I don't like about Boon's re-entry is he says that his vote on knight was RVS. The post immediately after (the supposed rvs vote) claims he thought knight was being too defensive.

Not to mention, his RVS put Knight on L-4. I don't know if that can be considered RVS since there was quite a lot of discussion going on between knight and sakura.
Calling it RVS and then immediately later calling it a bit defensive, this is weird. Like he did read enough of the thread to understand that knight was defensive, but then considers voting him randomly to put him on L-4. My read on him hasn't changed at all.

[chilledtea]

You said it was RVS, but maybe he didn't believe.

[chilledtea]

Of course it was

obviously

RVS. My bad. I mean it's not like there were at least a couple of non-rvs votes before yours and a discussion regarding a wagon.

[chilledtea]

I was reading you as scum. From my perspective it was easy for you to come in, add some fuel to the fire and run away. Part of the reason why I think Lowell is scum because he did something similar. He was more aggressive, and his aggression has no reason.

[chilledtea]

VOTE: mhsmith

Smith is scum. Lowell might be town.

[chilledtea]

VOTE: mhsmith

Smith is scum. Lowell might be town.

Smith is scum because ____?

Lowell might be town because ____?

I'm especially curious about the second. You were scum reading Lowell consistently in your posts, but now that the wagon looked like it was nearing L-1 and turning really serious you wanted out and are now town reading Lowell. You give no reason for this, just a flat stated town read (cushioned by a "might" modifier). This just SCREAMS tactical voting. Justify your vote and your reads. Yes, I know. Actual effort and transparency. It's a drag but unfortunately it's what the town needs to see in order to actually evaluate you.

Your post. That is the reason.

The nonsensical reasons you have given make me feel that you don't understand the context under which certain actions took place in this game. It almost felt like you are trying to get reasons for your scum read by going through the thread rather than stating your actual feelings.
Lowell could be town because he said the same thing about you.

[chilledtea]

The nonsensical reasons you have given make me feel that you don't understand the context under which certain actions took place in this game. It almost felt like you are trying to get reasons for your scum read by going through the thread rather than stating your actual feelings.
Lowell could be town because he said the same thing about you.

1) "The nonsensical reasons". WHICH "nonsensical reasons"? And why are they nonsense?

2) "You are trying to get reasons for your scum read by going through the thread rather than stating your actual feelings." You mean like looking for evidence and holding people accountable for what they say, and being clear on WHY I am reading people as scum, instead of just hand-waving "oh my gut says town", "my gut says scum". How in that world is THAT scum-indicative?

Seriously, why not just go all out and say "MHS is trying to scum hunt, therefore he must be scum"? Or do you think I'm fake scum hunting? And if the latter, where is the EVIDENCE for me fake scum hunting? Note that "my gut says you're fake scum hunting" is NOT something I consider an acceptable answer.

3) Lowell could be town because he agrees with your position? Seriously, that's it? What about all the stuff you scum read him for before?

They are nonsense because they fail to take context into consideration. Seems like you saw a nice opportunity to jump on the almost50 wagon and decided to find "scummy" things.

For eg, You think vote whipping someone is a scum tell. It is 100% something a townie would consider doing if he thinks the game requires more content from said person.

When almost voted sayaka, in fact before that I voted Sayaka as well. And that was a naked vote registered to make a point.

As far as Lowell is concerned, he had like little reason to consider Knight super scum like he did. So I was suspicious. It is still possible he is scum. My read on you has changed. Does it surprise you that people can have change of read on the basis of what you say or don't say?

[chilledtea]

Actually, I take that back. Maybe smith isn't scum. Only because of his post answering Lowell.

But his case on almost is really bad. Tunnelling bad.

VOTE: Lowell

[chilledtea]

I've already said why your post regarding Almost was a joke. Almost hasn't really done anything worth considering scummy in this game. Vote whipping is a valid strategy.

"Try harder" I don't need to. You haven't even given any reason to consider a50 scum. When you do, I will "try harder". Quoting pseudo-random posts from the thread and assigning random reasons to them stating how x is scum because of it isn't "evidence" or "proof", it is nonsense.

I see that now context is suddenly important huh. Well, if you actually cared about what was happening, then his so called "empty votes" were pretty much necessary. You think there is "theory" behind everything, but actually most of the game is your ability to properly understand motives.

You ask why anyone would consider Boon to be scum for saying he has to attend a party? Well, if you understood context, you would have known that a50 was probably already considering him scummy because of his vote on Knight earlier. And then his attempt at escaping from explaining himself by giving some random excuse which we cannot verify anyways doesn't suddenly make him town.

His vote whipping on Lowell was to create discussion by force. Completely support him on that. If there is a lurker, an attempt to lynch him brings him out of the woods most of the time. Easiest way for scum to escape suspicion is to lurk while town blabber at each other whole day and then join them when it is time for voting/lynching.

I did spell out why I suddenly thought you were scum. Your reasons regarding A50 were nonsense. It also felt to me that you were playing the "noob" card, which in hindsight you probably weren't.

As far the vote going back on Lowell is concerned, well, he is definitely scum read of mine. The only reason I felt a little bit better about him was he was the first person to mention you as scum putting up an act and your post regarding almost50 almost looked like an act to me.

[chilledtea]

To put further light on why I thought smith is scum - He put a giant wall of "evidence" which just felt like scum trying to put an act of scumhunting. In hindsight, it could just be unexperienced town or just tunnelling town. It could also be scummy town.

[chilledtea]

Spoiler:

...And wagons on newbs are fun, anyway.
...
so I'm moving to an easier, hopefully more hilarious, target.

Serious vote or joke/reaction test? I'm assuming the latter for now. I dislike playing games with votes but whatever.

This guy needs some votes. Even when I specifically vote him on page whatever this is, he's all "oh, me? are you being serious? Is this just a joke? oh gosh, I don't know."

Stop asking questions: vote mhsmith. I promise it'll get hilarious as we get close to lynch. I can tell he's the type.

What the heck? Stop asking questions and just vote? deadline is in a little less than 2 weeks, why would we rush a lynch when there's still lots of discussion to be had, for instance, the lack of your explanation for anything?

There's always someone who gets needlessly peeved about this. For every "oops quick lynch" I've seen about a dozen "no let's wait no let's wait no let's wait OOPS OUT OF TIME KILL SOMEONE RANDOM QUICK." So how about you address the point I made instead of polishing your mock incredulation act.

What do you think of Sakura, Lowell? You're not weirded out at all by her backing off of knightmare?

Yes, I'm VERY worried about it. There's nothing I like less than when a wagon forms, gets close, and then people just start to weasel themselves out of it without any good reason other than "it's too early" or "I want to keep looking" or whatever. Again, this game shouldn't just be pissing around waiting until deadline and then panic-lynching. sakura is probably scum.

Oh man.

Boon is scum, lowell is prob scum and madonna is prob scum too. Although madonna is a slight read.

Can we just decide on one of these. I would go for boon though.

Sounds pseudo-Lowell.

Yeah this guy wishes. Though in possibly related news, this guy gives me townvibes.

Anyway, smith, sakura, and knight. Game over, let's all go home.

According to this post, Lowel's scumreads are sakura, knight, smith.
Texcat hasn't said anything from 314 till recently after Lowel's vote. (Please correct me if I am wrong)

Lowell what made you change your mind regarding your scum reads? What made texcat suddenly scummy?

[chilledtea]

I am OK with both madonna or lowell lynch today. At the moment the vote is on Lowell, but if you decide I am ok with Madonna. She is objectively scummy.

[chilledtea]

Also it would be nice to hear from Sayaka because I am townreading her.

[chilledtea]

@all: The Lowell wagon is back down to L-2. I still plan on re-attaching my vote tonight barring a GOOD reason not to. And I am explicitly on record as being willing to hammer if he's at L-1 before I vote. I would REALLY like to see people who haven't really weighted in on things to comment on the wagon. Beyond that, Lowell had a chance to role claim or defend himself and chose not to bother to do anything other than toss in a seemingly random town read of madonna. I'd like him to come back and actually do something, but if he doesn't, he doesn't.

PS Just in case I am back to being in hammer position tonight, I'll try and have some more detailed thoughts on things other than just Lowell before I vote.

I think he meant Madonna is looking good for lynching? That's the way I took it.

I think him and Madonna are scum mates.

[chilledtea]

I am OK with both madonna or lowell lynch today. At the moment the vote is on Lowell, but if you decide I am ok with Madonna. She is objectively scummy.

You should vote Madonna because I'm in a neighborhood with her and she scumslipped, I'm also a daycop and scum with her.

.....Are you saying you are scum. Sorry I am not understanding this?

[chilledtea]

You can read, yes?

I think bad I am at EnglisGH

Just explain what you were saying. Are you scum? Are you daycop? Are you in neighbourhood with Madonna? What was her scumslip?? (thanks to mhsmith0)

Pedit : Okay. So it is a joke.

[chilledtea]

I will if I thought it would reach a lynch. I am ok with either of them and think they are both scum.

The only thing with Lowell is that, sometimes I have know town apathetic people play like this. Absolutely not give a damn what happens, don't defend themself, just play for fun kind of. That is the only thing that scares me about him. If he is that then for me reading him will be very difficult.

[chilledtea]

INTENT TO HAMMER. Madonna claim now.

[chilledtea]

That's a good question. Let me think about it.

[chilledtea]

I will give her around 12 hours I guess. Let us give her 12 hours after which hammering is fine.

[chilledtea]

I intend to hammer in the next hour, unless people can convince me otherwise.

[chilledtea]

It has been 17 hours since she posted in here. The 12 hour period is over. Here goes nothing.

VOTE: Madonna

[chilledtea]

I think Boon is town. But then I thought Madonna was scum.

I need to re-evaluate by re-reading. Texcat is a very difficult slot to read unfortunately.

[chilledtea]

I think expedience is town btw. His aggression towards Madonna seemed like it came from town. Texcat's sheep vote on Madonna where she quoted something Sakura had already pointed out I didn't like.

[chilledtea]

I also didn't really like Garmr's subtly coming in and saying he liked Lowell's lynch, but was okay with Madonna's lynch. He never participated in the lynch.

Also, I am sorry for giving only 12 hours. I have learnt that these games have to be played with way more patience than what I originally anticipated.

[chilledtea]

ALSO MOD :

If knightmare is not playing this game, then replace his name from the VC. Thanks!

OOPS, thought I already did that. Done and thanks

[chilledtea]

I am also fence-scum on goodlordwill. I think mhsmith is probably town. I haven't really changed much of my opinion regarding knight, sayaka, almost, sakura.

[chilledtea]

I didn't like lowell much on day 1. He needs to contribute a lot more. I can get a clearer read on him.

All he did was "lynch this guy".

Incidentally Madonna read Lowell as town. So there was no manipulation involved there. Not saying that makes Lowell town, but I will give him a chance. Let him come and put forward his ideas regarding the game.

At the moment my vote would be on either texcat or goodlordwill. Since texcat already has a vote on her, I will join the wagon.

VOTE: texcat

[chilledtea]

I think expedience is town btw. His aggression towards Madonna seemed like it came from town. Texcat's sheep vote on Madonna where she quoted something Sakura had already pointed out I didn't like.

This is crap. I pointed out why I was voting Madonna. Madonna had clearly contradicted herself, and I found the quotes to prove it. Why is that scummy? Scummy is jumping on the wagon just because it's a wagon. (See posts below.)

True but it was pointed out by Sakura before you. That is what I was talking about. Reference : 505

[chilledtea]

EBWOP:

I think expedience is town btw. His aggression towards Madonna seemed like it came from town. Texcat's sheep vote on Madonna where she quoted something Sakura had already pointed out I didn't like.

This is crap. I pointed out why I was voting Madonna. Madonna had clearly contradicted herself, and I found the quotes to prove it. Why is that scummy? Scummy is jumping on the wagon just because it's a wagon. (See posts below.)

True but it was pointed out by Sakura before you. That is what I was talking about. Reference : 505[/quote]

[chilledtea]

Amazingly enough, even though it was a contradiction, Madonna turned out to be a townie.

I don't think she actually believed that votes are always important and similar in value. It doesn't always mean an intention to lynch. I think she tunnelled a bit - she was very suspicious of (Knight?) and probably subconsciously wanted to see his reaction.

[chilledtea]

So?

So it felt like as if you were just trying to give an excuse for a vote. Your vote came way later than Sakura's observation did.

[chilledtea]

Spoiler:

...And wagons on newbs are fun, anyway.
...
so I'm moving to an easier, hopefully more hilarious, target.

Serious vote or joke/reaction test? I'm assuming the latter for now. I dislike playing games with votes but whatever.

This guy needs some votes. Even when I specifically vote him on page whatever this is, he's all "oh, me? are you being serious? Is this just a joke? oh gosh, I don't know."

Stop asking questions: vote mhsmith. I promise it'll get hilarious as we get close to lynch. I can tell he's the type.

What the heck? Stop asking questions and just vote? deadline is in a little less than 2 weeks, why would we rush a lynch when there's still lots of discussion to be had, for instance, the lack of your explanation for anything?

There's always someone who gets needlessly peeved about this. For every "oops quick lynch" I've seen about a dozen "no let's wait no let's wait no let's wait OOPS OUT OF TIME KILL SOMEONE RANDOM QUICK." So how about you address the point I made instead of polishing your mock incredulation act.

What do you think of Sakura, Lowell? You're not weirded out at all by her backing off of knightmare?

Yes, I'm VERY worried about it. There's nothing I like less than when a wagon forms, gets close, and then people just start to weasel themselves out of it without any good reason other than "it's too early" or "I want to keep looking" or whatever. Again, this game shouldn't just be pissing around waiting until deadline and then panic-lynching. sakura is probably scum.

Oh man.

Boon is scum, lowell is prob scum and madonna is prob scum too. Although madonna is a slight read.

Can we just decide on one of these. I would go for boon though.

Sounds pseudo-Lowell.

Yeah this guy wishes. Though in possibly related news, this guy gives me townvibes.

Anyway, smith, sakura, and knight. Game over, let's all go home.

According to this post, Lowel's scumreads are sakura, knight, smith.
Texcat hasn't said anything from 314 till recently after Lowel's vote. (Please correct me if I am wrong)

Lowell what made you change your mind regarding your scum reads? What made texcat suddenly scummy?

Lowell I want an answer to this.

[chilledtea]

Spoiler: Post 565

I really do not like Madonna's putting Lowell at L-1 and now claiming that she did it just to call a bluff. Especially when we've been warned that Boon has a hammer that's as quick as Ika's. I can't imagine that Madonna and Lowell could possibly be teammates as ChilledTea thinks, but I do think that one of them is likely scum.

Pedit: Exp??

Spoiler: Post 574 where you voted

@madonna: is it your opinion that the wagon was a serious attempt to end d1 quickly?

This is a weird question and so is every instance where players in this game talk about serious votes. This is for everyone:

every vote, even in RVS, should be counted as a serious vote,

because you should absolutely always vote how you are feeling. If a player is voting someone, the voter is saying, "I want this person lynched," not, "No feelings or beliefs behind this." I can accept votes that okay a lynch on a lukewarm read, but only if we are nearing deadline and the voter does not have a better, stronger read on someone else. No one should be saying that their vote is not serious, and if they are, maybe consider voting them to help make them realize what a vote means.

I do not think a wagon on knightmare was an attempt to end the day early. I think it was something which could lead to ending the day, but if the mafia were on a mislynch, it was for the sake of a mislynch, not a day ending move.

VOTE: Madonna

I agree that every vote counts, especially L-1 votes. This seems to go against her claim that her vote was a bluff.

Something seems wrong about this.

Like I can't put my finger on it. Something just seems wrong about reading the contradiction, saying that one of lowell and madonna are scum, and then voting madonna by giving the contradiction as a reason.

Why are you voting lowell now?

[chilledtea]

Shouldn't you be more sure of Lowell being town if one of lowell and madonna were scum and you had read madonna's contradiction?

[chilledtea]

I mean, can a person miss something like that? I caught it immediately and thought that was a very good catch by you. Even though it turned out to be that Madonna is town.

I guess it is not something we can verify at the moment.

[chilledtea]

VOTE:

VOTE: Lowell

This guy still hasn't answered my question. I will park my vote on him for some time.

[chilledtea]

PPS I'm currently still liking Lowell or ct for wagons. Texcat... Not as sure there. Need to mull over sincerity more than anything. I'm struggling to fully wrap my head around end d1, but I feel like there should be SOMETHING telling there. Could be as easy as ct scum hammering and trying to play "too scum for scum"... Could be something else. I 100% am opposed to any early d2 hammers.

I'm tempted to say screw it and hammer, my #2 scum read but CT has declared the honor effective soon. I'll see where things stand in another 12 hours. Given madonnas apparent choice to not show up and defend or declare a pr, if I don't see anything from her in another 12 hours I'm going to consider that a confession.

That's said, if anyone wants to make a case for why it's important to wait and see what the whole board thinks, then I'm open to listening on that front (presuming ct doesn't just hammer first anyway).

If I hadn't said intent to hammer then you might have done it mhsmith. I did have the intention to hammer, I was honest.

[chilledtea]

I also didn't really like Garmr's subtly coming in and

saying he liked Lowell's lynch

, but was okay with Madonna's lynch. He never participated in the lynch.

Also, I am sorry for giving only 12 hours. I have learnt that these games have to be played with way more patience than what I originally anticipated.

I didn't like lowell much on day 1. He needs to contribute a lot more. I can get a clearer read on him.

All he did was "lynch this guy".

Incidentally Madonna read Lowell as town. So there was no manipulation involved there.

Not saying that makes Lowell town, but I will give him a chance. Let him come and put forward his ideas regarding the game.

At the moment my vote would be on either texcat or goodlordwill. Since texcat already has a vote on her, I will join the wagon.

VOTE: texcat

Spoiler: Post 565

I really do not like Madonna's putting Lowell at L-1 and now claiming that she did it just to call a bluff. Especially when we've been warned that Boon has a hammer that's as quick as Ika's. I can't imagine that Madonna and Lowell could possibly be teammates as ChilledTea thinks, but I do think that one of them is likely scum.

Pedit: Exp??

Spoiler: Post 574 where you voted

@madonna: is it your opinion that the wagon was a serious attempt to end d1 quickly?

This is a weird question and so is every instance where players in this game talk about serious votes. This is for everyone:

every vote, even in RVS, should be counted as a serious vote,

because you should absolutely always vote how you are feeling. If a player is voting someone, the voter is saying, "I want this person lynched," not, "No feelings or beliefs behind this." I can accept votes that okay a lynch on a lukewarm read, but only if we are nearing deadline and the voter does not have a better, stronger read on someone else. No one should be saying that their vote is not serious, and if they are, maybe consider voting them to help make them realize what a vote means.

I do not think a wagon on knightmare was an attempt to end the day early. I think it was something which could lead to ending the day, but if the mafia were on a mislynch, it was for the sake of a mislynch, not a day ending move.

VOTE: Madonna

I agree that every vote counts, especially L-1 votes. This seems to go against her claim that her vote was a bluff.

Something seems wrong about this.

Like I can't put my finger on it. Something just seems wrong about reading the contradiction, saying that one of lowell and madonna are scum, and then voting madonna by giving the contradiction as a reason.

Why are you voting lowell now?

VOTE:

VOTE: Lowell

This guy still hasn't answered my question. I will park my vote on him for some time.

These actions don't compute. He is passively giving excuses not to vote lowell but then puts his vote on lowell for not answering a question something is not right.

You are reading too much into it.

Texcat came and defended herself so I removed the vote and parked it on lowell temporarily.

You are making it sound like lowell is scum and I am his partner bussing him or something. I can assure you that this lowell wagon is almost rvs-worty on day 2.

[chilledtea]

We've pretty much already established that contradictions don't necessarily indicate alignment. But fair point about trying to make connections, I cannot relate with that and seems like a confusing tactic more than anything else.

[chilledtea]

ebwop :
We've pretty much already established that contradictions don't necessarily indicate alignment. But fair point about texcat trying to make connections, I cannot relate with that and seems like tactic to create confusion among town more than anything else.

[chilledtea]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

All of this happened a few hours ago.

The vote change was mostly because texcat was on L-4 at the time and seemed intent on defending herself. Lowell was nowhere to be seen. So I voted lowell. I mean I indicate as such by calling it vote parking.

[chilledtea]

you were not you are sorry.

If this is directed at me, then I don't understand this.

[chilledtea]

I think you missed the post where I clearly indicate that the texcat case was something we cannot verify at the moment. So it is pointless to pursue it until more analysis.

Also, we are in a game where day 1 ended a long time before deadline. It is better to park vote somewhere else.

Lowell's defense is that he had a theory (regarding texcat). So what is this "theory"? Yeah, lowell's participation isn't good enough to give an indication. So I want to see more from him.

[chilledtea]

I mean, are we really arguing over why I changed my vote? Texcat came and defended herself and I couldn't pursue her more at that point. Maybe she is scum, but there is nothing as far as I am aware that would indicate such.

Lowell's lack of participation and general ambiguity makes me think voting him would always be a better move.

[chilledtea]

The way chilled almost instantly backed down from my wagon when challenged rings alarm bells. Do you know something about my role that makes you think you don't want to be on this wagon?

Also, this game is a lot of people showing up and "demanding" answers to questions. So serious. It makes me LOL.

Also I'm pretty sure texcat is the one we're looking for here. Go with me on this, sheeple.

Where did I back down from your wagon? My vote is still on you.

[chilledtea]

Sure, your basically RVS vote. Which is the "I'm not back down you guys see?" version of backing down. So, worse.

This is just bad. What is your theory regarding texcat anyways?

I mean this is just rich coming from you. You have been naked voting texcat yourself. On day 1 you voted knight on a wagon and then turned your attention to texcat with no explanation. Even now, there seems to be no explanation regarding it other than - "I've a theory guys".

[chilledtea]

If I may, your theory on texcat please.

[chilledtea]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

All of this happened a few hours ago.

The vote change was mostly because texcat was on L-4 at the time and seemed intent on defending herself. Lowell was nowhere to be seen. So I voted lowell. I mean I indicate as such by calling it vote parking.

I realize that Garmr already pursued this, but this post just stands out to me as scum yelling, "I'm just going for an easy lynch, I don't care who actually gets the rope."

Hmm. What do you think is the chance of lowell getting lynched because of this particular wagon?

Also, you are scum.
VOTE: texcat

[chilledtea]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

All of this happened a few hours ago.

The vote change was mostly because texcat was on L-4 at the time and seemed intent on defending herself. Lowell was nowhere to be seen. So I voted lowell. I mean I indicate as such by calling it vote parking.

I realize that Garmr already pursued this, but this post just stands out to me as scum yelling, "I'm just going for an easy lynch, I don't care who actually gets the rope."

Hmm. What do you think is the chance of lowell getting lynched because of this particular wagon?

Also, you are scum.
VOTE: texcat

VOTE: Chilledtea
I was considering what you since I wasn't really happy with your answer. But this shows you only backed off texcat because she was defending herself not because you town read her.

Lol.

What are the chances of lowell or texcat being lynched? Why don't you answer that question instead?

[chilledtea]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

All of this happened a few hours ago.

The vote change was mostly because texcat was on L-4 at the time and seemed intent on defending herself. Lowell was nowhere to be seen. So I voted lowell. I mean I indicate as such by calling it vote parking.

I realize that Garmr already pursued this, but this post just stands out to me as scum yelling, "I'm just going for an easy lynch, I don't care who actually gets the rope."

Hmm. What do you think is the chance of lowell getting lynched because of this particular wagon?

Also, you are scum.
VOTE: texcat

VOTE: Chilledtea
I was considering what you since I wasn't really happy with your answer. But this shows you only backed off texcat because she was defending herself not because you town read her.

Lol. Way to out yourselves as scum guys. Good job.

So the two scum out of (three?) are texcat and garmr.

I already said I moved my vote on to lowell because texcat is defending herself and we can always go for texcat later. When did I say texcat is town? Go back and read.

[chilledtea]

Garmr and texcat are both scum.

Both are giving bs reasons as explanations.

I specifically said

Shouldn't you be more sure of Lowell being town if one of lowell and madonna were scum and you had read madonna's contradiction?

I mean, can a person miss something like that? I caught it immediately and thought that was a very good catch by you. Even though it turned out to be that Madonna is town.

I guess it is not something we can verify at the moment.

VOTE:

VOTE: Lowell

This guy still hasn't answered my question. I will park my vote on him for some time.

Where did I specify that texcat is town? I never did.

[chilledtea]

Garmr and texcat are both scum.

Both are giving bs reasons as explanations.

I specifically said

Shouldn't you be more sure of Lowell being town if one of lowell and madonna were scum and you had read madonna's contradiction?

I mean, can a person miss something like that? I caught it immediately and thought that was a very good catch by you. Even though it turned out to be that Madonna is town.

I guess it is not something we can verify at the moment.

VOTE:

VOTE: Lowell

This guy still hasn't answered my question. I will park my vote on him for some time.

Where did I specify that texcat is town? I never did.

Huh That's why I was hesitant in voting you in the first place becuase I was under the impression you may of thought tex cat defence was legit and you thought she was town. If that's not the case can you tell me the town motive to back off texcat who was defending herself. You were getting her to open and getting information out of her why would you stop that?

Because there was nothing else I could ask her at that time. We reached a dead end. It was a tie.
Also lowell was acting strange and I wanted more input from him to properly read him. I don't see it as necessary that you must vote a person whom you are considering as fence-scum or null or whatever.
Why did you think I took away the vote from texcat? I didn't have much to go on at that point on her. I don't see how you reached the conclusion that she is town in my eyes. Also she was on L-4 and I rather pressurize Lowell than vote park on a person whom I am getting null reads from at that point.

[chilledtea]

Spoiler:

Garmr and texcat are both scum.

Both are giving bs reasons as explanations.

I specifically said

Shouldn't you be more sure of Lowell being town if one of lowell and madonna were scum and you had read madonna's contradiction?

I mean, can a person miss something like that? I caught it immediately and thought that was a very good catch by you. Even though it turned out to be that Madonna is town.

I guess it is not something we can verify at the moment.

VOTE:

VOTE: Lowell

This guy still hasn't answered my question. I will park my vote on him for some time.

Where did I specify that texcat is town? I never did.

Huh That's why I was hesitant in voting you in the first place becuase I was under the impression you may of thought tex cat defence was legit and you thought she was town. If that's not the case can you tell me the town motive to back off texcat who was defending herself. You were getting her to open and getting information out of her why would you stop that?

Because there was nothing else I could ask her at that time. We reached a dead end. It was a tie.
Also lowell was acting strange and I wanted more input from him to properly read him. I don't see it as necessary that you must vote a person whom you are considering as fence-scum or null or whatever.
Why did you think I took away the vote from texcat? I didn't have much to go on at that point on her. I don't see how you reached the conclusion that she is town in my eyes. Also she was on L-4 and I rather pressurize Lowell than vote park on a person whom I am getting null reads from at that point.

Wait you were null reading her then after she started questioning you started scum reading her again. That's like a premature omgus and not to mention you started scum reading me because I voted you?

Also what is bullshit that you couldn't ask her anymore questions that's fucking pathetic you finally got her to talk and you only posted 2 or 3 points and you had nothing left to talk about despite the fact you could of asked her about her reads,thoughts on the madonna wagon anything ect. Hell you could of even asked other people to jump on the wagon to add more pressure to texcat to see how she would react.

Like you said the time frame with giving lowell a chance to lowell vote was a couple of hours for the input seems really weird. Also you saying that lowell was acting strange wasn't even your original reasoning for voting him it was "him ignoring you and cutting off his chance for doing that despite having plenty of time "(I would of gave 2-3 days if I was giving some a chance due to the fact we all have real lives). The fact you are changing events makes is a really bad sign.

The reason I thought you were town reading tex is because you didn't choose to pursue her after switching the vote or even say anything about your read on her when pushed on why you switched vote so I assumed the only logical reasoning was you were town reading her because of her defense since you mentioned that it played a part in your unvote. A townie would continue pushing her with a scum or null lean to try and sort her out not leave her alone due to some inconvenience of it being to difficult to push.

Obviously you don't know what a townie would do at that time. You aren't a townie.
Asking bs questions like yours isn't what a townie does. A townie carefully looks at a situation and sees if there is any doubt in his mind regarding several players. If there is a doubt they ask the question regarding the doubt.

This is almost scum-claim at this point from you. Why would I ask a question just for the sake of asking and creating discussion? There are several people I am interested in, not just texcat. Also, incredible simplification and in general misrepping of the events that happened between me and texcat. Texcat said that I am "jumping wagons" because of one vote switch. The said wagon on Lowell isn't even that serious and will not catch speed. The texcat wagon was actually far more serious, which is the reason why I removed my vote from it to make lowell talk.

I mean, are we really arguing over why I changed my vote? Texcat came and defended herself and I couldn't pursue her more at that point. Maybe she is scum, but there is nothing as far as I am aware that would indicate such.

Lowell's lack of participation and general ambiguity makes me think voting him would always be a better move.

"Maybe she is scum"

This was some time back now.

[chilledtea]

Look, I don't tolerate bs reasons.

I realize that Garmr already pursued this, but this post just stands out to me as scum yelling, "I'm just going for an easy lynch, I don't care who actually gets the rope."

This is completely and utterly nonsense. No one is going for a lynch with lowell wagon. Texcat is making up reasons over here, nothing else. She is scum.
Also, something like this for changing one vote? From texcat at the beginning to lowell after the interrogation with texcat. Really? Jumping wagons are you serious?

[chilledtea]

All right, I am getting angry at this point.

I don't want to get into a swearing contest with you. I am not going to RQS on day 2. I will play the game the way I want.

And that includes not asking bs questions like yours.

[chilledtea]

All right, I am getting angry at this point.

I don't want to get into a swearing contest with you. I am not going to RQS on day 2. I will play the game the way I want.

And that includes not asking bs questions like yours.

RQS wtf these are game relevant random question stage are question that aren't even relevant to the game Like what is your fave colour. Stop trying to sound smarter than you are while trying to brush me off at the same time it pisses me off.

Your flail is real.

Hey, I am NOT GOING TO ASK QUESTIONS ARTIFICIALLY.

What is difficult to understand in that?

[chilledtea]

If others think there is merit in Garmr's case, then I will answer them. I feel like garmr is just trying to deflect attention from texcat's case at this point. So I won't be answering him because he is genuinely making me angry.

[chilledtea]

I agree with Lowell about not seeing the link within Garmr and Texcat. Seems like a stretch from scum. I want to town read chilled, but I may be wrong about that. I've been thinking texcat is a scumfuck for a long time, especially right before Madonna got lynched, and Garmr I always think is scummy when he speaks. All this being said texcat should be lynched, haha. I want to figure out chilled and solidify what I feel on Garmr, and I think Tex is scum! Tex flipping scum, I would no longer think chilled is! Although, I just thought about a potential chilled/Garmr scum team...care of them if they are doing some kind of scum theater. Chilled pushing hard on Garmr yet not voting him is super suspish. Super suspish indeed.

VOTE: texcat

That's 4.

I am ready to vote for garmr as well. But you know, that would be "jumping wagons".

No but seriously, I am ok with Garmr lynch today if people are interested.

[chilledtea]

All right, I am getting angry at this point.

I don't want to get into a swearing contest with you. I am not going to RQS on day 2. I will play the game the way I want.

And that includes not asking bs questions like yours.

RQS wtf these are game relevant random question stage are question that aren't even relevant to the game Like what is your fave colour. Stop trying to sound smarter than you are while trying to brush me off at the same time it pisses me off.

Your flail is real.

Hey, I am NOT GOING TO ASK QUESTIONS ARTIFICIALLY.

What is difficult to understand in that?

I really don't like this, chilled. This is in the same vein as "don't lynch me. I'm town". There's literally no merit in what you say without alignment being revealed. It's similar to when people use self-meta to try and clear themselves, but if they are aware of self-meta, they do it as both alignments.

I don't really want to alter my game because of what my scumspect thinks about it, sorry. If a question pops up into my mind, I ask.

[chilledtea]

Garmr, if you and texcat are scum together, bus your buddy now please. Texcat is scum, we can lynch you tomorrow instead of today, okay? See, if you think about it, I'm actually protecting you.

Chilled, if texcat flips town, I'm coming hard after you tomorrow.

Then go for garmr. You already think that garmr is bussing texcat.

I also think garmr is scum. Expedience thinks that texcat is always like this.

If texcat is town, then how am I supposed to know that? Frankly if I wasn't town reading you, I would have thought that this post is some kind of a "I know texcat is town, lets lynch her and then blame ctea for it".

What do you think? Want to go for garmr then? If garmr is town I will take responsibility for it.

[chilledtea]

My top two would be garmr, texcat. The third one isn't very strong - but if needed lowell.

[chilledtea]

My top two would be garmr, texcat. The third one isn't very strong - but if needed lowell.

Can I ask why you think I am scum and it better not be because I voted you.

You nitpicked my playstyle. If I don't ask more questions to texcat I am scum.

I absolutely cannot see that as reasonable from any angle. The discussion that was going on had something to do with the fact that texcat voted Madonna while giving similar reasons to Sakura on day 1. I found it fishy and decided to start the day with the vote on her. The situation reached a stalemate because she said she didn't notice Sakura Hana's reasons earlier on during day 1 and only saw it when she was going through Madonna's ISO. There was no way to verify this, so I stopped and decided to focus my attention to lowell. One of the ways I do it is by using my vote - anyone at that point using an argument that I was jumping wagons is a very big scumspect in my eyes. While I don't think you did that, texcat did.

Your argument that the only reason I could have removed my vote from texcat at the very early start of day 2 is because I town read her is wrong. It wasn't just a simple unvote - it was a transfer of vote to lowell.

By the way, I am pretty sure that among the few people who did try to engage lowell today, I was one of them.

Your vote hasn't got much to do with this.

[chilledtea]

Your argument that the only reason I could have removed my vote from texcat at the very early start of day 2 is because I town read her is wrong. It wasn't just a simple unvote - it was a transfer of vote to lowell.

But there's more to my reasoning than just that it was the language and your behavior. Also earlier you said that texcat became null but this implies you were still scum reading texcat. It seems really inconsistent with other explanations.

By the way, I am pretty sure that among the few people who did try to engage lowell today, I was one of them.

Your vote hasn't got much to do with this.

Yeh it hasn't got much about how much you engaged with lowell.

Texcat was null-scum.

[chilledtea]

@smith:
May you vote Lowell, please? His flip should help you solidify or reverse your read on texcat. They can't be scum together, can they?

@chilled:
Likewise.

Lowell did a semi-soft claim. Even if I vote him I want it to be so that there is no hammer.

He is also V/LA at the moment. Lets wait a bit for him.

[chilledtea]

@smith:
May you vote Lowell, please? His flip should help you solidify or reverse your read on texcat. They can't be scum together, can they?

@chilled:
Likewise.

Lowell did a semi-soft claim. Even if I vote him I want it to be so that there is no hammer.

He is also V/LA at the moment. Lets wait a bit for him.

I thought he denied the claim later?

Sakura, Sakaya, texcat.

This is where I am, except I add chilled there. One of Tex/chilled is scum. Sakura/Sayaka I see potential scum, but I really don't have a case I feel I should push off of over Tex/chilled.

Where did this scum read of Sayaka come from? I don't think you've even mentioned her before.

I think it would be wrong for him to outright claim if he was a PR. He might have been acting?

[chilledtea]

Hmm no, from what i know of scum!Expedience he wouldn't hesistate to bus texcat if they were partners, texcat might be a mislynch
VOTE: Expedience

Have you read the thread thoroughly?

[chilledtea]

LOL. Have you read this page thoroughly?

Yes, she was saying she wanted a summary and everything and from there went on to vote expedience. So I wondered if she had completed her reading.

[chilledtea]

@Sakura - chilled vs texcat isn't TvT and it isn't SvS. They both are giving crap reasonings and switch wagons when something gets going. I am scum reading chilled for the same reasons texcat is being scum read.

Also, I haven't been paying too much to expedience. I feel like he's repeating himself.

How can both texcat and I give crap reasonings to vote? My reasoning was texcat giving bad reasons to be suspicious of me. So by that logic you are giving bad reasoning as well.

[chilledtea]

Expedience is town in my opinion.

Boon, you haven't answered my question?

[chilledtea]

Dude you haven't voted for me?

Also you said I gave bad reasons? My reason was texcat gave bad reasons to be suspicious of me.

If you think I am scummy for "giving bad reasons", then doesn't that make you a hippocrite since the reason I give is "texcat gave bad reasons".

[chilledtea]

Why are you getting angry?

I think it is ridiculous that you think texcat and I have to be of opposite teams. What if we are both scum? I have read the thread and said so before as well.

[chilledtea]

Expedience can you tell me exactly why you thought texcat was a good lynch candidate when earlier you said that she was a common mislynch candidate?

[chilledtea]

Toasty: Why do we have opposite reads regarding Almost and Expedience, i don't understand why anyone's townreading what he's doing, i don't get why ppl don't see what i'm seeing, and the only person that's actually been seeing what im seeing is Almost50 as shown in 673 which is another reason for me to think he's town.

I think Expedience's intention is town. He has been very clear in his statements - wanted madonna lynch, went for it boldly. I like that and I don't see scum doing it that easy.
His case on you I don't agree with. But, I agree with him on garmr being scum.

[chilledtea]

It is probably misunderstanding from what I see.

[chilledtea]

The only thing I don't understand about expedience in 643 is he himself pushed the wagon so I don't see what's wrong with you joining the Madonna wagon.

Everything else I think is his perspective, it's a little different to yours.

[chilledtea]

Haha, now he is going to burst again.

[chilledtea]

Or maybe you took my comment on ONE post (the one she said she was not going to do a catch up soon) as a general comment. I did say that particular post was scummy, but I do/did not scum read Sakura in general.

On another note, Sayaka, Lowell & GLW need to show up. I believe Easter is well over now, so we need these 3 to talk.

I wanted to say the same thing except GLW has been replaced by dierfire.

[chilledtea]

UNVOTE:

This game feels like a mess. We seem to be going nowhere unlike day 1 where there was lot of activity and we went straight for a lynch as fast as possible. Even though we got a mislynch I prefer that (on day 1) because we could work better with the information we had at the time. Now it feels like we are unable to gather any information at all and people seem to be just fighting with each other.

I don't believe in having town reads but, I will say that I don't want to lynch boonskiies, sakura, expedience, toastytoast, smith.

Dierfire has just joined, would be unreasonable to lynch him especially since the previous slot owner didn't do much to get concrete reads on.

texcat/lowell is a good lynch and garmr seems to be someone only I am scumreading? I really think garmr is scum but no one seems to want to follow up on that. Expedience is the only one?

Sayaka was good when she said something but now she is inactive. That could be a lack of a potential townie involvement.

Anyways, if lowell doesn't say anything I am very much ok with his lynch. If you follow his ISO he hasn't done much since 4 days. Not that he did much before that.

[chilledtea]

chilled, you want to come at me, then come at me, bro! Why be so passive? place a vote!

One thing I'll note: in many, even MOST, countries (other than the U.S.), Easter is a four-day weekend--or longer. Such is my situation. I'm just today back at work, and I'll try to catch up today if I can.

I do want to mention my vote on tex, though. Basically what I thought I saw (but now am not sure I see) was a soft claim from sayaka (and if I was right all along, SORRY SAYAKA!). Basically there was no kill, then sayaka started spamming the thread, shooting accusations all over, then voting (more or less out of the blue) for tex. My interpretation was: role-blocker who blocked tex, trying not to admit to such.

On day 1, you voted texcat saying texcat was a better lynch candidate than you. Do you remember why that was the case?

This is important because you answered this question by saying that you have a theory - but your theory is in regard with day 2.

What made you suspicious of texcat on day 1?

[chilledtea]

chilled, you want to come at me, then come at me, bro! Why be so passive? place a vote!

One thing I'll note: in many, even MOST, countries (other than the U.S.), Easter is a four-day weekend--or longer. Such is my situation. I'm just today back at work, and I'll try to catch up today if I can.

I do want to mention my vote on tex, though. Basically what I thought I saw (but now am not sure I see) was a soft claim from sayaka (and if I was right all along, SORRY SAYAKA!). Basically there was no kill, then sayaka started spamming the thread, shooting accusations all over, then voting (more or less out of the blue) for tex. My interpretation was: role-blocker who blocked tex, trying not to admit to such.

On day 1, you voted texcat saying texcat was a better lynch candidate than you. Do you remember why that was the case?

This is important because you answered this question by saying that you have a theory - but your theory is in regard with day 2.

What made you suspicious of texcat on day 1?

I mean, everyone is a better lynch than me. My D2 theory is entirely what I mentioned above, and has nothing to do with D1, except to the extent that texcat's existence on that scummy borderzone would have made him a likely RB target.

Who would you lynch today?

[chilledtea]

I don't see a lynch happening at this rate. I can't bring myself to lynch sakura hana because she was a strong town read on day 1. She hasn't read much of day 2 from what I've observed, but really don't see her deserving a lynch.

[chilledtea]

Boon, join me on garmr lynch then.

VOTE: Garmr

[chilledtea]

Boon i'll give you until your next post to fix your claim into something that isnt a lie and explain why you lied or otherwise im adding super glue to my vote.

Please come here and explain yourself.

[chilledtea]

I agree with you hana. He ignored you and went for texcat instead and I didn't like it.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Let us see what happens next.

[chilledtea]

Boon can you tell me why you ignored 1013 but answered 1018? Can you tell me why you asked sakura's opinion on garmr? And why did you not follow it?

[chilledtea]

Boon is scum. He is giving the "I have real life guys" excuse. Sakura is town and her reaction test was perfect imo. He could have replied with at least something to the soft-counter claim but he didn't and just waited for sakura to make the first move. Which is fake.

Please lynch boon. His reaction seems fake to me.

[chilledtea]

Boon i'll give you until your next post to fix your claim into something that isnt a lie and explain why you lied or otherwise im adding super glue to my vote.

If we analyse this post it should be obvious that she isn't counter-claiming just the jailing part - she is being vague in her counter-claiming. I took it as .. maybe a tracker who might have tracked Boon - and she realized that boon hadn't visited toastytoast.

And yet Boon jumped to the conclusion that Sakura is counter-claiming Jailkeeper. Why did he jump to that conclusion again? I think it is because he felt sakura is counter-claiming jailkeeper.

[chilledtea]

But why would he feel like that?

Why the sudden assumption that maybe sakura would counter-claim jailkeeper? Why not the assumption that sakura is scum - he always considered her a scum anyways.

I have a lot of difficulty considering people as town who take their scumspect's words seriously.

Not to mention,....this means that he probably did visit toastytoast but is not the jailkeeper. I think he is mafia PR who visited knight. Probably felt that a tracker couldn't really counter-claim his claim - so he automatically assumed that he was being counter-claimed for his PR.

[chilledtea]

And then the excuse of "I am busy" I don't buy it. Sorry but I don't buy it. He wasn't busy to the extent where he answered texcat, and he is lying.

[chilledtea]

Hey Sakura, does your vengeful ability get activated if you are nightkilled?

[chilledtea]

I didn't see anything about vengeful being not normal on wiki?

[chilledtea]

I actually don't mind sakura's lynch and I think she doesn't mind either - she is voting herself.

[chilledtea]

I took it as in non-normal games there could be vengeful cop, doc etc but in normal only a vengeful townie is allowed.

[chilledtea]

I am ok with sakura lynch then. If she is saying the truth then she can take out boons for us.

[chilledtea]

There is always the danger that someone ISO'd and missed the context, which would be the only case dierfire is town. If he actually read through day 1 and came to that conclusion - that me "quickhammering" madonna makes me scum - then we have just found ourselves our scum no. 2 who is desperate to deflect attention from ongoing wagons.

If Boons flips scum - dierfire is most likely scum. If sakura flips scum then can't say much about dierfire.

[chilledtea]

@ct: what do you think of Dier's other points?

His other points regarding me? Some of them were very early day 1 I am not sure what I am supposed to say about that? What analysis was he expecting anyways?

The one between you and me I feel like it was paranoia by me more than anything else. I was town reading almost at that time (and even now) and felt that you were trying to give fake set of reasons to throw shade on almost but I have since changed my mind regarding you.

The only thing I liked about dierfire was that he pointed out that vengeful is possibly not normal which I wasn't aware.

[chilledtea]

It's a far more sensible argument to go for a scum death instead of a town and a scum death.
This isn't rocket science.

Problem is, boon is non-CC'd PR specifically in the context of stopping an NK. So while, yes, he's had some seriously suspicious moments, that's not where I want to look. I'm not lynching a non-CC'd PR claim this early in the game without a HELL of a case. I'm just not. That said, speaking of places to look...

I was town reading almost at that time (and even now)

Can you walk us through that read of A50? I'm struggling to see the thread evidence of this read. I see:

Almost hasn't really done anything worth considering scummy in this game

And various attacks on the votes on A50, but I don't really see much in terms of a substantive town read. "Hasn't really done anything worth considering scummy" is something, but had he done anything notably towny to you? Or was this more of a consistent null read, with a "lack of scummy vibes = probably town" kind of conclusion?

Almost's reactions on day 2 make me feel he is strong town read. I have played with him on several occasions by now, I know he is town here. His reads are very similar to mine and he has this authorative - "let us hurry up with this day" approach. He is obvtown.

[chilledtea]

That generalization does not apply. We don't know the roles, we do know there wasn't a kill on night one.

And you will believe what boon says, just because there is no counter claim?

Can you tell me why Boon thought that Sakura was counter-claiming jailkeeper?

[chilledtea]

Almost's reactions on day 2 make me feel he is strong town read. I have played with him on several occasions by now, I know he is town here. His reads are very similar to mine and he has this authorative - "let us hurry up with this day" approach. He is obvtown.

So you think A50 is town on day 2? What did you think on day 1? Your answer to dier was that you thought he was town on day 1... so what drove that read at that time?

On day 2 it became stronger but on day 1 he was really trying to unite the town - his efforts were what made me feel he is town. Obviously on day 1 there isn't that much to go on.

[chilledtea]

That generalization does not apply. We don't know the roles, we do know there wasn't a kill on night one.

And you will believe what boon says, just because there is no counter claim?

Yes.

Can you tell me why Boon thought that Sakura was counter-claiming jailkeeper?

I am not Boonskiies, but I think it was because of how strongly Sakura was pushing Boonskiies lying.

The only thing sakura said was Boon was lying and she is waiting for why boon lied.

[chilledtea]

The only thing sakura said was Boon was lying and she is waiting for why boon lied.

Being that strong about it suggests a counter claim of some sort. Such as a tracker or cop on boon, a different protective role, etc. "You lied because I read you as lying"... was not how I read her statement at the time. Nor would I expect others to. That looked like a counter claim.

Yes but not exactly a jailkeeper counter claim, and yet 1041.

[chilledtea]

The only thing sakura said was Boon was lying and she is waiting for why boon lied.

Being that strong about it suggests a counter claim of some sort. Such as a tracker or cop on boon, a different protective role, etc. "You lied because I read you as lying"... was not how I read her statement at the time. Nor would I expect others to. That looked like a counter claim.

Yes but not exactly a jailkeeper counter claim, and yet 1041.

So you're scum reading him because he thought that she was going to try and claim JK? That seems... forced.

I am scum reading him because he conveniently claimed that he was the one who stopped the kill when he was on L-1. I am scum reading him because he ignored a very important post from Sakura and went straight to texcat to answer her queries. Sakura almost COUNTER CLAIMED, and what does he do? Ignores her.
What?

He is scum and he was trying to find out what he could do about the counter claim.

[chilledtea]

I am scum reading him because he conveniently claimed that he was the one who stopped the kill when he was on L-1. I am scum reading him because he ignored a very important post from Sakura and went straight to texcat to answer her queries. Sakura almost COUNTER CLAIMED, and what does he do? Ignores her.
What?

He is scum and he was trying to find out what he could do about the counter claim.

He "ignored" her for like his first post after her accusation. So what? Maybe he was trying to trap her into forcing an explicit dipole, maybe he felt like dealing with tex first, maybe he had some other reason. Scum-reading him for that is just silly.

And as far as role claiming at L-1, how the hell is THAT scummy? I mean, yes, scum could fake claim here. But you don't lynch a non-CC'd PR WHEN YOU KNOW THAT A PR STOPPED A KILL unless you're really, really, REALLY certain.

I mean, this should be obvious. I hope the reason it's not obvious is that you're scum.
VOTE: chilledtea

PS nice turnaround between your "don't want to lynch" read of Boon at 954 and this. Super convincing reasons

His claim came after that. His fake reactions came after that.

[chilledtea]

Smith, you can try your best but I am not getting lynched today.

Boon is scum, I guarantee you. If he was town he would be first to jump on sakura's post. He got nervous instead and only replied once realized it was a reaction test.

[chilledtea]

Like, smith, do you even understand how counter-claiming works?

She claimed that boon was lying and he didn't say a thing until it became clear that it was a reaction test. Of course there is absolutely nothing scummy in that, right?

[chilledtea]

Yeah, no. Exp is town.

Scum is in {dierfire, lowell, garmr, boonskiies}. I think lowell might be town in this.

Also if you think I am not going to "Jump Wagons" after basically a scum claim by boon then you are mistaken.

[chilledtea]

Wait a second, wouldnt another PR outing mean that Boons is counter-claimed? I don't understand why you say "ANOTHER" town PR.

Yeah, glad to see we agree that Boonskiies won't be counterclaimed.

Oh he will be.

I am jailkeeper. Happy?

[chilledtea]

Yeah, I am serious. Sheesh guys. I was hot on his head for this reason as well.

[chilledtea]

Don't hammer now. Wait a bit.

[chilledtea]

I jailkept garmr by the way.

[chilledtea]

UNVOTE:

[chilledtea]

Take a good look at this list :

{dierfire, lowell, boonskiies, garmr}

This is very important. Scum might be outside it but there definitely is inside it, at least 2. There is a very small chance that garmr is not scum but remember there was no kill on night 1. I always KNEW boon was scum I was buddying him so that I could try and block another kill jesus christ guys, you should know that scum always try to out the doctor/jk when they are getting lynched and when they know there is a protective role.

[chilledtea]

Lowell tried to out the JK too remember with his "someone might have roleblocked texcat". Yeah, he could be scum.

Guess what, I was outed by most likely townies instead. Exp, smith, sakura, all townreads I mean come on guys.

[chilledtea]

Also the only reason I claimed was because I was very heavy on Boon's push - scum might have got a hint I don't know. Originally I wanted to lynch garmr and then go for boon but this works too. If I am nightkilled then you at least have some data to work with.

[chilledtea]

Lowell tried to out the JK too remember with his "someone might have roleblocked texcat". Yeah, he could be scum.

Guess what, I was outed by most likely townies instead. Exp, smith, sakura, all townreads I mean come on guys.

Expedience is NOT town. Expedience is scum. (Just remember I told you so after I get NK'd).

It's Boons + Expedience + Lowell.

Garmer most probably was the TARGET of the NK, if there's no other protective PR that could've saved someone else.

Lynch Boons, then Expedience then you can lynch every other town player to avoid lynching Scum!Lowell.

Disagree. Exp is town.

Garmr isn't.

Also you aren't getting NK'd when I am there for the taking.

[chilledtea]

Boonskiies claims in 992.

Seriously, fuck this game. You guys are lynching a PR. I fucking jailed Toasty last night. I thought I blocked the kill until he started lying.

Here is chilledtea afterward.

Boon, join me on garmr lynch then.

VOTE: Garmr

Boon i'll give you until your next post to fix your claim into something that isnt a lie and explain why you lied or otherwise im adding super glue to my vote.

Please come here and explain yourself.

I don't at all believe that chilledtea, as Town Jailkeeper, sees someone claim a Jailkeeper action and decides to try to be friends with Boonskiies ("to block another kill" as though lynching Boonskiies immediately doesn't help that plan), then questions another player who seems to be countering the claim.
I also see no evidence from chilledtea when D2 begins that he has an important result (he should have believed either that Garmr delivered a kill or that he blocked an attempt to kill Garmr).

I don't believe the claim by chilledtea.

I am obviously not stupid enough to make a complete 180 on my "townread" after his claim. That is basically claiming.

So yes, boon is scum. You don't need to believe my claim but boon is scum. Lynching him is something I tried to carry out without claiming and was pretty successful ^_^. It was at the end that sakura gave in to exp otherwise I needn't have claimed.

This a jailkeeper we are talking about. Not a cop or a tracker. An outed JK is basically a nightkill.

[chilledtea]

Also, dierfire, are you stupid or scum to think I will leave any kind of hints for the scum to scan and realize that I am JK? I don't need to leave any hints for my survival, also, I wasn't planning on getting NK'd anyways.

[chilledtea]

@chilledtea

Why would you claiming immediately after Boon have been a bad thing?

I refuse to believe you can be this dense dier. Impossible.

If someone were to claim doctor, but he isn't, should the real doctor counter-claim him or should he wait it out? No need to claim when boon was caught by sakura's reaction test anyways.

[chilledtea]

Oh my god. How ridiculously stupid does a person have to be to think someone will counter claim as scum when boon is on L-1. Seriously. You do not think so, dier it is impossible that you think I would counter claim as scum when boon was very much on his way to getting lynched - not to mention you town read sakura and if it wasn't boon it would have been sakura instead.

[chilledtea]

In the scenario that you describe, the real Doctor should counter the claim! Trading evenly with the Mafia is a good deal for the Town, and having a dead Mafia player makes it easier to find associations. Also, in this situation specifically, the Jailkeeper has a greater chance to block the kill when fewer Mafia players are left alive.

No. Only if it is necessary. For eg during LYLO.

Trading evenly with mafia is helpful but in this case it wasn't necessary. Also the JK will get nk'd so there is no way it is easier for him to stop kills.

[chilledtea]

By LYLO I meant when there is only one scum left.

[chilledtea]

There didn't seem to be any other way to convince exp and smith that boon is scum. Also I think there would be enough data to be had by day 3 if I get taken out night 2.

[chilledtea]

In your initial response to Boon's claim that I quoted above, and in several of your responses recently, you seem to be saying that your plan was not to counter the claim because you thought that your role was more valuable concealed. Initially, your response was even to allow Boon to survive the day (in favor of lynching Garmr). What has changed since then that you absolutely needed to convince Expedience and mhsmith0 that Boon is Mafia now, today?

There was a chance that sakura might have got lynched and sakura was starting to think that boon might be the one who stopped the kill. She might have taken someone else out with the vengekill not to mention that if boon is vengekilled he might be allowed another night action, I am not sure how it works.
If town is getting confused because the fact that there was no night kill, then I decided to take the confusion away. It is their loss at this point if I get NK'd. Boon was obvscum even without the fact that he claimed JOAT/JK. It is very common to claim doctor/JK when you are scum, and know there is a protective role and expose him.

Initially I wanted garmr out and then block boon - at least that attitude lead to boon claiming JOAT/JK and revealing himself as scum to the rest of the town. Also, if you notice boon never got on garmr's wagon. He considered garmr as possible scum but never got on his wagon.

[chilledtea]

VOTE: Boonskiies

Probably L-1 this. You can hammer now.

[chilledtea]

If I get taken out then remember to go through my ISO, there are some conversations with garmr and boon that you guys will find interesting.