Mini Normal 1775 END!

[Sakura Hana]

Also i love how goodlord says this:

K, read (well, skimmed) everything, and every part of my gut and brain is screaming that knight is town.

I will defend him not to the death, but at least to the slight inconvenience!

Yet he has said nothing about the people actually scumreading and voting him, but goes after someone that's no longer scumreading him.

How interesting.

[FA_Q2]

@Mod: you missed my unvote in 72

That being said i'll just do it again in case i did it wrong
UNVOTE:

No, you did it correctly but I missed it. The V/C has been corrected.

[Almost50]

VOTE: Madonna

Also

fos : Goodlordwill

Bad vote

I will however
VOTE: Lowell
I know as a gut player how it feels to have gut reads, but you seem to be hiding behind your gut reasoning for voting here.

GOOD vote

I would still like more votes on Sayaka. We can sort out both Sayaka & Lowell simultaneously.

Also, I've got a question: Do we know anything specific about the setup? Like, do we know exactly how many mafia players to expect? Whether there could be an SK? Any particular roles that are guaranteed to exist?? etc..?

[Sakura Hana]

Also, I've got a question: Do we know anything specific about the setup? Like, do we know exactly how many mafia players to expect? Whether there could be an SK? Any particular roles that are guaranteed to exist?? etc..?

Not really, since the setup is fully closed, mafia members are usually about 25% of the playerlist more or less.

[mhsmith0]

Also, I've got a question: Do we know anything specific about the setup? Like, do we know exactly how many mafia players to expect? Whether there could be an SK? Any particular roles that are guaranteed to exist?? etc..?

Not really, since the setup is fully closed, mafia members are usually about 25% of the playerlist more or less.

To my knowledge, no details are really known. There's a fairly wide list of roles that COULD be in this game but that's about all we're given.

PS Can someone clarify the case on Sayaka? I know she's planning to murder one of us tonight and frame someone else for it, but besides that?

[chilledtea]

VOTE: Madonna

Also

fos : Goodlordwill

Bad vote

Why? I think Madonna is scum.

Lowell is prob scum too.

[chilledtea]

There are probably 3 scum in the game. I think that is sufficient guesswork regarding setup.

[knightmare]

I agree with chilled.

13p set up usually is 3 Mafia, not reason to think of 3rd party until we have evidence to suggest it.

This game is considered "normal" so I'm assuming any of the roles listed under that category could be present here.

[knightmare]

I wouldn't mind more posts from Sayaka but I think they're observations on Boon was pretty sharp to point out.

Boon is more of a concern to me than Sayaka, anyway.

[knightmare]

Their observation*

Stupid autocorrect

[Almost50]

Why? I think Madonna is scum.

Lowell is prob scum too.

So vote the one with more votes on them to actually pressure them. Starting a new wagon when we already have 3 going on is not a good idea, unless you genuinely scum read her and have a case convincing enough to push her all the way.

I just want the town to work together, so we move on in packs to resolve individuals. So, come the time we do need to commit to a lynch each of us has enough conviction to vote for X, Y or Z. Wagons of 1 or 2 people are not exactly productive at this time.

[chilledtea]

Oh all right.

VOTE: Lowell

[Almost50]

Thank you. I will also join, so Lowell is @ L-2

VOTE: Lowell

You can start talking anytime now, Lowell.

[Sayaka Maizono]

The other S girl needs to post more.

I'll clear this up now... I only have free time maybe 1-2 times during the day, if this isn't enough then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Sayaka Maizono]

Enough of knightmare to get an initial town lean on him. Sayaka though could use some pressure to get them talking.

VOTE: Sayaka

Can we talk about this!

In your post 71 you give chilled town points for voting me in his 47. Which would seem to imply you have some reason for thinking I am scum or otherwise agreed with his vote on me. But here you say your reason is "pressure". Can you clarify exactly what your reason for voting me is?

[Madonna]

@madonna: is it your opinion that the wagon was a serious attempt to end d1 quickly?

This is a weird question and so is every instance where players in this game talk about serious votes. This is for everyone:

every vote, even in RVS, should be counted as a serious vote,

because you should absolutely always vote how you are feeling. If a player is voting someone, the voter is saying, "I want this person lynched," not, "No feelings or beliefs behind this." I can accept votes that okay a lynch on a lukewarm read, but only if we are nearing deadline and the voter does not have a better, stronger read on someone else. No one should be saying that their vote is not serious, and if they are, maybe consider voting them to help make them realize what a vote means.

I do not think a wagon on knightmare was an attempt to end the day early. I think it was something which could lead to ending the day, but if the mafia were on a mislynch, it was for the sake of a mislynch, not a day ending move.

[Sayaka Maizono]

So, reads. I was town reading Sakura since the point where she made 39, which IMO is town paranoia. I would not expect a scum to just second guess their own wagon for no reason. I still think she is town. As of right now I think the cases on her I have seen have been overtly nitpicky and weak. I will explain further about this if anyone asks me to do so.

I will retract my previous scum read on knightmare. I also think he is town.

I have not minded Garmr's posts so far. I think he is town and this gives me an OK base to work from for now.

I do not really like this wagon on Lowell. I think Expedience raises a good point in his 139, and I think that it looks more like confident town. Unfortunately I do not really like the way Expedience hedges around it, rather than committing to a firm stance. 124 about Sakura was also a bit of a reach in my opinion. Expedience, why do you think Sakura would have any reason to "turn the tables" when she was not being scum read at that point in the game? Her wagon did not come until later IIRC and the only one who was suspicious of her was knightmare himself.

I would also like A50 to explain why he specifically chose me to "sort out" via wagoning, as he could have done that to anyone so I'm curious why me in particular. I need some time to sit before deciding where I want to move my vote.

[knightmare]

@Madonna that is probably a better explanation than I gave earlier. I think Smith took it as me saying I saw those wagoning me as attempting to end Day quickly when I meant I did think the wagon was serious. I was talking about being lynched, which I guess he connected to Day ending.

@Sayana I disagree with you about Lowell. I can accept that people think his vote for me was NAI. I do think 84 and the one from this morning are though. Him saying I am just OMGUSing is crap because there are others who voted me that I haven't attacked. His progression is bad and his focus is narrow thus far. I don't see this as townie play.

[mhsmith0]

@madonna: is it your opinion that the wagon was a serious attempt to end d1 quickly?

This is a weird question and so is every instance where players in this game talk about serious votes. This is for everyone:

every vote, even in RVS, should be counted as a serious vote,

because you should absolutely always vote how you are feeling. If a player is voting someone, the voter is saying, "I want this person lynched," not, "No feelings or beliefs behind this." I can accept votes that okay a lynch on a lukewarm read, but only if we are nearing deadline and the voter does not have a better, stronger read on someone else. No one should be saying that their vote is not serious, and if they are, maybe consider voting them to help make them realize what a vote means.

I do not think a wagon on knightmare was an attempt to end the day early. I think it was something which could lead to ending the day, but if the mafia were on a mislynch, it was for the sake of a mislynch, not a day ending move.

I don't understand this. You seem to be saying that RVS is in fact not RVS at all. You also seem to be saying that it's not legitimate to toss on a vote simply as a reaction test as opposed to a serious read. My understanding is this runs contrary to board meta. Can you correct me if my assessment of board meta is off, or clarify why you feel this way?

[Sayaka Maizono]

@Sayana I disagree with you about Lowell. I can accept that people think his vote for me was NAI. I do think 84 and the one from this morning are though. Him saying I am just OMGUSing is crap because there are others who voted me that I haven't attacked. His progression is bad and his focus is narrow thus far. I don't see this as townie play.

I agree he should generate content that isn't related to you. I think he is on the wrong track with you, but, I don't necessarily see it as a scum trait rather than a town one. Sometimes a townie will just focus on one player at a time (regardless of if there reasons are good or not) because it's how they play.

I agree about the OMGUS accusation being bad but again I don't see it as a scum trait, it's just bad.

[chilledtea]

I think Lowell is scum. His overconfidence is without reason.

[chilledtea]

Like Knight isn't confscum or anything. But he is sure of it. He doesn't really have a reason for his confidence and that makes me think he is faking his confidence.

I mean I get he might have thought knight is scum, but I think we all generally have a doubt in our minds regarding everyone.

[knightmare]

I can understand tunneling, Sayana. I don't think that's the case here.

My point is that I think Lowell is

twisting things to make me look scummy

and that his perspective is not genuine.

Again, look at post 84 again I think it's pretty obvious he is not being objective.

[Almost50]

@Sayaka:

1- Main Original Reason: You jumped on knightmare as their 4th voter with a naked vote. At first I assumed it was a belated RVS, but when he asked you gave a hell of a narrative of his "bad reaction". I don't agree with your reasoning to have voted him in the first place, but still it could've been a bad read. HOWEVER, when voting him FOR A REASON you should've introduced your case on the spot. Not doing so makes it look more like "Let me try to get in the mix, and if something goes wrong I could back track and claim it was RVS".

2- Secondary Original Reason: Your counter argument to his defense sucked. You accused him of "not considering the motivations behind Sakura's posts and instead are just posturing here.". However, you yourself refused to consider his "I did want to generate discussion/reactions" as his motive.

3- NEW Additional Reason: In #166 you state "I will retract my previous scum read on knightmare. I also think he is town." at one point, but you conclude your post with "I need some time to sit before deciding where I want to move my vote.". I don't see why you would want to keep parking your vote on someone you already read as town. If you can't decide on whom you want to vote for there's always the unvote option for a start. Keeping your vote on a town read is saying something and doing the opposite. It's even worse than stating someone is scummy without voting them because they're "unsure about it".

In sum, your talk doesn't go with your actions so far, so you need to be sorted out, and soon.

[knightmare]

Not a huge fan of your post there A50.