Mini Normal 1775 END!

[mhsmith0]

It's a far more sensible argument to go for a scum death instead of a town and a scum death.
This isn't rocket science.

Problem is, boon is non-CC'd PR specifically in the context of stopping an NK. So while, yes, he's had some seriously suspicious moments, that's not where I want to look. I'm not lynching a non-CC'd PR claim this early in the game without a HELL of a case. I'm just not. That said, speaking of places to look...

I was town reading almost at that time (and even now)

Can you walk us through that read of A50? I'm struggling to see the thread evidence of this read. I see:

Almost hasn't really done anything worth considering scummy in this game

And various attacks on the votes on A50, but I don't really see much in terms of a substantive town read. "Hasn't really done anything worth considering scummy" is something, but had he done anything notably towny to you? Or was this more of a consistent null read, with a "lack of scummy vibes = probably town" kind of conclusion?

[FA_Q2]

Do you have a source for the use of Vengeful as an explicitly Normal role?

How about we ask the mod?

@Mod: Is "Vengeful TOWNIE" normal or not? Thank you.

As for the 1 for 1 trade, it is fine I guess.. except the scum would probably shoot her anyway, so that is even better for us. That and the fact she is very much willing to eat the rope to take Boons with her confirms her town alignment to me. Scum will NOT trade 1 on 1 even if it was for the claimed JK.

I will not confirm what roles are available or not in this setup other than to state that the setup itself is normal and has been reviewed for both normalcy and balance. The normal game rules are available for anyone to read (and interpret) on the wiki page.

[FA_Q2]

VoteCount 2.9

With 12 players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

Maestro (0):

Almost50 (0):

Sakura Hana (3):

Boonskiies, Lowell, Expedience

Lowell (0):

mhsmith0 (0):

texcat (0):

Garmr (0):

Boonskiies (6):

ToastyToast, Garmr, chilledtea, texcat, Almost50, Sakura Hana

(L-1)

Dierfire (0):

ToastyToast (0):

chilledtea (1):

Dierfire

Expedience (0):

Not Voting (3):

Maestro, mhsmith0

The deadline is in

(expired on 2016-04-05 12:00:00)

NOTES:
None

[Expedience]

I would understand wanting to lynch me if you think im scum and lying, but trying to tell others to lynch me because it's better to lose 1 town and 1 scum instead of just 1 scum, that's a really bad argument.

I agree. That's why I'm not supporting lynching you on that basis.

[Expedience]

VoteCount 2.9

With 12 players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

Maestro (0):

Almost50 (0):

Sakura Hana (3):

Boonskiies, Lowell, Expedience

Lowell (0):

mhsmith0 (0):

texcat (0):

Garmr (0):

Boonskiies (6):

ToastyToast, Garmr, chilledtea, texcat, Almost50, Sakura Hana

(L-1)

Dierfire (0):

ToastyToast (0):

chilledtea (1):

Dierfire

Expedience (0):

Not Voting (3):

Maestro, mhsmith0

The deadline is in

(expired on 2016-04-05 12:00:00)

NOTES:
None

what the actual fuck, unvote boon ffs

[Expedience]

sakura is obvious scum
sakura claims a role unlikely to be present in the setup
this role's ability can only be used when they are lynched
boonskiies voters: "LETS LYNCH THE CONFIRMED TOWN LOL"

[Sakura Hana]

non-CC'd is meaningless in a closed setup however.

[Expedience]

That generalization does not apply. We don't know the roles, we do know there wasn't a kill on night one.

[chilledtea]

It's a far more sensible argument to go for a scum death instead of a town and a scum death.
This isn't rocket science.

Problem is, boon is non-CC'd PR specifically in the context of stopping an NK. So while, yes, he's had some seriously suspicious moments, that's not where I want to look. I'm not lynching a non-CC'd PR claim this early in the game without a HELL of a case. I'm just not. That said, speaking of places to look...

I was town reading almost at that time (and even now)

Can you walk us through that read of A50? I'm struggling to see the thread evidence of this read. I see:

Almost hasn't really done anything worth considering scummy in this game

And various attacks on the votes on A50, but I don't really see much in terms of a substantive town read. "Hasn't really done anything worth considering scummy" is something, but had he done anything notably towny to you? Or was this more of a consistent null read, with a "lack of scummy vibes = probably town" kind of conclusion?

Almost's reactions on day 2 make me feel he is strong town read. I have played with him on several occasions by now, I know he is town here. His reads are very similar to mine and he has this authorative - "let us hurry up with this day" approach. He is obvtown.

[Expedience]

chilled tea please unvote why do you continue to torment me like this

[mhsmith0]

Almost's reactions on day 2 make me feel he is strong town read. I have played with him on several occasions by now, I know he is town here. His reads are very similar to mine and he has this authorative - "let us hurry up with this day" approach. He is obvtown.

So you think A50 is town on day 2? What did you think on day 1? Your answer to dier was that you thought he was town on day 1... so what drove that read at that time?

[chilledtea]

That generalization does not apply. We don't know the roles, we do know there wasn't a kill on night one.

And you will believe what boon says, just because there is no counter claim?

Can you tell me why Boon thought that Sakura was counter-claiming jailkeeper?

[mhsmith0]

chilled tea please unvote why do you continue to torment me like this

I'm starting to think i know the answer...

[Expedience]

That generalization does not apply. We don't know the roles, we do know there wasn't a kill on night one.

And you will believe what boon says, just because there is no counter claim?

Yes.

Can you tell me why Boon thought that Sakura was counter-claiming jailkeeper?

I am not Boonskiies, but I think it was because of how strongly Sakura was pushing Boonskiies lying.

[chilledtea]

Almost's reactions on day 2 make me feel he is strong town read. I have played with him on several occasions by now, I know he is town here. His reads are very similar to mine and he has this authorative - "let us hurry up with this day" approach. He is obvtown.

So you think A50 is town on day 2? What did you think on day 1? Your answer to dier was that you thought he was town on day 1... so what drove that read at that time?

On day 2 it became stronger but on day 1 he was really trying to unite the town - his efforts were what made me feel he is town. Obviously on day 1 there isn't that much to go on.

[chilledtea]

That generalization does not apply. We don't know the roles, we do know there wasn't a kill on night one.

And you will believe what boon says, just because there is no counter claim?

Yes.

Can you tell me why Boon thought that Sakura was counter-claiming jailkeeper?

I am not Boonskiies, but I think it was because of how strongly Sakura was pushing Boonskiies lying.

The only thing sakura said was Boon was lying and she is waiting for why boon lied.

[mhsmith0]

The only thing sakura said was Boon was lying and she is waiting for why boon lied.

Being that strong about it suggests a counter claim of some sort. Such as a tracker or cop on boon, a different protective role, etc. "You lied because I read you as lying"... was not how I read her statement at the time. Nor would I expect others to. That looked like a counter claim.

[mhsmith0]

That generalization does not apply. We don't know the roles, we do know there wasn't a kill on night one.

+1

There are three basic possibilities at work here:

1) Boon was telling the truth
2) Some other PR prevented the kill (BP or doc), and is actively choosing to remain silent for whatever reason
3) Scum decided not to kill last night

#3 is transparently ridiculous. So either Boon was telling the truth, or some other PR is staying silent for whatever reason. And while #2 IS possible (sorry exp, but it is possible, and is why Boon isn't 100% conf town), #1 is very much possible as well. Which means that it'd be ridiculous to lynch Boon at this time.

[chilledtea]

The only thing sakura said was Boon was lying and she is waiting for why boon lied.

Being that strong about it suggests a counter claim of some sort. Such as a tracker or cop on boon, a different protective role, etc. "You lied because I read you as lying"... was not how I read her statement at the time. Nor would I expect others to. That looked like a counter claim.

Yes but not exactly a jailkeeper counter claim, and yet 1041.

[mhsmith0]

The only thing sakura said was Boon was lying and she is waiting for why boon lied.

Being that strong about it suggests a counter claim of some sort. Such as a tracker or cop on boon, a different protective role, etc. "You lied because I read you as lying"... was not how I read her statement at the time. Nor would I expect others to. That looked like a counter claim.

Yes but not exactly a jailkeeper counter claim, and yet 1041.

So you're scum reading him because he thought that she was going to try and claim JK? That seems... forced.

[chilledtea]

The only thing sakura said was Boon was lying and she is waiting for why boon lied.

Being that strong about it suggests a counter claim of some sort. Such as a tracker or cop on boon, a different protective role, etc. "You lied because I read you as lying"... was not how I read her statement at the time. Nor would I expect others to. That looked like a counter claim.

Yes but not exactly a jailkeeper counter claim, and yet 1041.

So you're scum reading him because he thought that she was going to try and claim JK? That seems... forced.

I am scum reading him because he conveniently claimed that he was the one who stopped the kill when he was on L-1. I am scum reading him because he ignored a very important post from Sakura and went straight to texcat to answer her queries. Sakura almost COUNTER CLAIMED, and what does he do? Ignores her.
What?

He is scum and he was trying to find out what he could do about the counter claim.

[Sakura Hana]

The problem is that Boon hasn't been acting like a Town PR who was about to be counter claimed, he's been acting like scum who knows that i'm town.

[Expedience]

That generalization does not apply. We don't know the roles, we do know there wasn't a kill on night one.

+1

There are three basic possibilities at work here:

1) Boon was telling the truth
2) Some other PR prevented the kill (BP or doc), and is actively choosing to remain silent for whatever reason
3) Scum decided not to kill last night

#3 is transparently ridiculous. So either Boon was telling the truth, or some other PR is staying silent for whatever reason. And while #2 IS possible (sorry exp, but it is possible, and is why Boon isn't 100% conf town), #1 is very much possible as well. Which means that it'd be ridiculous to lynch Boon at this time.

It is possible, but really at this point they need to just claim if they are a jailkeeper or stopped a kill or whatever.

[mhsmith0]

I am scum reading him because he conveniently claimed that he was the one who stopped the kill when he was on L-1. I am scum reading him because he ignored a very important post from Sakura and went straight to texcat to answer her queries. Sakura almost COUNTER CLAIMED, and what does he do? Ignores her.
What?

He is scum and he was trying to find out what he could do about the counter claim.

He "ignored" her for like his first post after her accusation. So what? Maybe he was trying to trap her into forcing an explicit dipole, maybe he felt like dealing with tex first, maybe he had some other reason. Scum-reading him for that is just silly.

And as far as role claiming at L-1, how the hell is THAT scummy? I mean, yes, scum could fake claim here. But you don't lynch a non-CC'd PR WHEN YOU KNOW THAT A PR STOPPED A KILL unless you're really, really, REALLY certain.

I mean, this should be obvious. I hope the reason it's not obvious is that you're scum.
VOTE: chilledtea

PS nice turnaround between your "don't want to lynch" read of Boon at 954 and this. Super convincing reasons

[Expedience]

ok so it appears the only way i can dispel the minute possibility that boonskiies' invisible and non-existent counterclaimant is deciding not to claim for some reason is to YELL LOUDLY AT THEM

SO IF YOUR ROLE IS ONE WHICH MAY HAVE PREVENTED A KILL LAST NIGHT, YOU MUST CLAIM IN YOUR NEXT POST.

Watch nothing happen. Lynch Sakura.