Mini Normal 1775 END!

[Lowell]

See that's how you wagon. With conviction!

Now do that same thing again, but on someone scummy.

[Sakura Hana]

See that's how you wagon. With conviction!

Now do that same thing again, but on someone scummy.

Nice to know that's all you got to say.

[knightmare]

See that's how you wagon. With conviction!

Now do that same thing again, but on someone scummy.

Such as?

[Madonna]

This is a weird question and so is every instance where players in this game talk about serious votes. This is for everyone:

every vote, even in RVS, should be counted as a serious vote,

because you should absolutely always vote how you are feeling. If a player is voting someone, the voter is saying, "I want this person lynched," not, "No feelings or beliefs behind this." I can accept votes that okay a lynch on a lukewarm read, but only if we are nearing deadline and the voter does not have a better, stronger read on someone else. No one should be saying that their vote is not serious, and if they are, maybe consider voting them to help make them realize what a vote means.

I do not think a wagon on knightmare was an attempt to end the day early. I think it was something which could lead to ending the day, but if the mafia were on a mislynch, it was for the sake of a mislynch, not a day ending move.

I don't understand this. You seem to be saying that RVS is in fact not RVS at all. You also seem to be saying that it's not legitimate to toss on a vote simply as a reaction test as opposed to a serious read. My understanding is this runs contrary to board meta. Can you correct me if my assessment of board meta is off, or clarify why you feel this way?

You misunderstand. First, RVS exists. Simple as that. Second, votes count. An RVS vote counts as a vote. "Reaction/test" votes are still votes. I do not care what kind of votes they are once we are beyond RVS, and RVS votes need to be evaluated once we pass the threshold into serious discussion. Why? Because all votes are votes, and all votes matter.

I do not care for your understanding of board meta, whatever the board meta is, or most arguments which categorize things as meta. Things which matter are things in this game.

[Madonna]

I can understand tunneling, Sayana. I don't think that's the case here.

My point is that I think Lowell is

twisting things to make me look scummy

and that his perspective is not genuine.

Again, look at post 84 again I think it's pretty obvious he is not being objective.

I am quoting you, knightmare, but I think others have expressed this sentiment about Lowell as well, and this needs addressing. 84 is a great post. 85 and 89 are great follow-ups. There is nothing indicative of a scum mindset in these posts. 57 is a little eh, but I agree that because of knightmare's play, it is plenty fine.

In terms of content to action ratios, Lowell is doing a whole lot better than most. His reasoning has been simple and clean, and I like that.

[Madonna]

So is it your opinion that i should've been engaging the players instead of waiting until they reply to me pointing the finger at them?
Sorry but i dont play the way other people want me to play.

Why would they reply to what you call a finger? You get people's attention with questions directed @them or a vote. This is a terribly passive approach to those you consider questionable in comparison to the wagon for which you properly argued before bailing on it.

I dont think knightmare is scum since like 2-3 pages ago.
I also unvoted because I thought the wagon buildup was too fast.
If you think im lying there's nothing I can do to show you differently, so im not even gonna bother.

See above. You had a scumpool that you yourself defined as Boonskiies and Sayaka Maizono, but you went for Lowell. Disappointing.

[Almost50]

Not a huge fan of your post there A50.

Anything specific?

[mhsmith0]

I do not care for your understanding of board meta, whatever the board meta is, or most arguments which categorize things as meta. Things which matter are things in this game.

"Things which matter are things in this game" is fluff. I'm trying to understand whether you're being contrarian or whether my sense is off. To the extent that you're being contrarian, I need to evaluate how you're being contrarian, and what I think about it.

You misunderstand. First, RVS exists. Simple as that. Second, votes count. An RVS vote counts as a vote. "Reaction/test" votes are still votes. I do not care what kind of votes they are once we are beyond RVS, and RVS votes need to be evaluated once we pass the threshold into serious discussion. Why? Because all votes are votes, and all votes matter.

Awesome. How do you propose to evaluate RVS votes? Are votes made SOLELY for the sake of reaction testing reasonable and legitimate? Consider what you'd said previously:

This is for everyone: every vote, even in RVS, should be counted as a serious vote, because you should absolutely always vote how you are feeling. If a player is voting someone, the voter is saying, "I want this person lynched," not, "No feelings or beliefs behind this."

So if your answer to my question is yes, I'm having a hard time seeing how your perspective holds together, and would like clarification. And if your answer is no, why aren't you openly suspicious of Almost50? You're aggressive on Sakura due to her behavior, presuming that votes are serious. But Almost50 displayed even more flagrant "I'm voting purely for reaction test purposes" behavior, AND he openly town read Sakura for the very same behavior you seem to find scummy, see 74.

Actually, let me be even more explicit on where I'm mentally going with this. You and A50 seem to have diametrically opposed reads of the same behavior of Sakura's. And neither of you seem remotely interested in engaging each other on that point. Why is this? Why are neither of you engaging with the other's theory (or even read as a whole, since A50 also added to town read at 152)? This seems like an obvious area of discussion from the both of you, given how substantial your disagreement appears to be. Why aren't you trying to engage with each other in thread?

[knightmare]

I am quoting you, knightmare, but I think others have expressed this sentiment about Lowell as well, and this needs addressing. 84 is a great post. 85 and 89 are great follow-ups. There is nothing indicative of a scum mindset in these posts. 57 is a little eh, but I agree that because of knightmare's play, it is plenty fine.

In terms of content to action ratios, Lowell is doing a whole lot better than most. His reasoning has been simple and clean, and I like that.

I'm not sure we can agree to disagree on this. 84 is a terrible post. His line about me making some "deep, methodical post to look helpful that reeks of scum" is seriously bad and nothing but false conjecture. It's not an objective argument, it's an attempt to smear me. I don't find this townie at all.

85 is an exaggeration. Who was actually freaking out about my wagon? You said yourself Sakura handled it rather passively and that's the only one I would consider getting cold feet at the time that was around.

89 also doesn't make sense in the context he is agreeing with you on.

So no, I strongly disagree that he's making good posts and I find it questionable that you think so. What about his two most recent posts, what's your opinion on those?

[knightmare]

Not a huge fan of your post there A50.

Anything specific?

Basically I think your points are kind of generic. I'm not sure what that means for you, yet, but I don't find any of your arguments particularily strong.

I'll be more specific later when I can quote you properly from a device other than my phone.

[Boonskiies]

I'll catch up tomorrow. Busy past couple of days. Party tonight for Saint patty's, woot woot.

[chilledtea]

My gut says that lowell is scum. He says that we should follow our gut and kill and be happy. So lets lynch him then.

[mhsmith0]

At any rate, I see no need to hang on to my RVS
UNVOTE: Goodlordwill

[Sakura Hana]

84 is a great post. 85

Ok let's break it down then:

No but really, this guy is scum. I'm a gut player, and my gut is always* right about these things.

Very great reasoning there i'm totally gonna follow up on this reasoning.

The entirety of his ISO is him getting madder and madder while trying to look calm and collected.

Words without examples are mud slinging.
(How do you even see whether he's "getting mad" while "being calm"?)

Even the latest few "let me put together a ponderous, methodical case on some rube to look like I'm helping" reeks of scum.

Once again, no quotes or examples.

If this is an example of a "great post" then all of knightmare's ISO would be the pinacle of amazing posting.

[Sakura Hana]

Why would they reply to what you call a finger? You get people's attention with questions directed @them or a vote. This is a terribly passive approach to those you consider questionable in comparison to the wagon for which you properly argued before bailing on it.

Ok, so let's see

FOS: BOOON

There happy?

[Sakura Hana]

I do wonder, do they not teach people in newbie games what a finger of suspicion is nowadays?

[Boonskiies]

Why am I being fingered? Haha.

[Boonskiies]

Am I sketchy? For rvs'ing and then commenting? Haha.

[mhsmith0]

@boon: why are you lurking? 185 read to me like you were going to be checking out of the thread.

[Sakura Hana]

Alright, but actually. Way too defensive already. It's page 2. Hot damn.

I didn't say it's why I voted you. I completely RVS'd. It's page 2, why would you get lynched...?

What's with your reasoning here.

[Boonskiies]

more laziness than anything. I'm a few pages behind by I want to read it on my computer, not my phone.

[Madonna]

Why would they reply to what you call a finger? You get people's attention with questions directed @them or a vote. This is a terribly passive approach to those you consider questionable in comparison to the wagon for which you properly argued before bailing on it.

Ok, so let's see

FOS: BOOON

There happy?

I'll catch up tomorrow. Busy past couple of days. Party tonight for Saint patty's, woot woot.

You are clearly going places, Sakura Hana.

[Boonskiies]

Alright, but actually. Way too defensive already. It's page 2. Hot damn.

I didn't say it's why I voted you. I completely RVS'd. It's page 2, why would you get lynched...?

What's with your reasoning here.

I'm lax and lazy, and don't think people need to get defensive that early in the game. Very rarely do quick lynched happen day 1, and if it were to happen, best be knowing imma be tunnel fucking the next day.

[Boonskiies]

Ugh, please don't make me try so hard on page 8...I just came on to do a quick check of my games while I have a few minutes to spare.

[Boonskiies]

I don't have any reads yet. I don't have reasons for doing anything. I'm waiting for stuff to happen.