Mini 500 - Cult Mafia - Game Over!

[Oman]

Vote Pwayne

Cause its bill hicks.

[Oman]

Let the sig stay, he likes it cause it messes with people, we discussed it in another game.

Unvote vote Flameaxe

OMGUS Guys, can we all trust me that flameaxe is SCUM! Seriously, I'm always right about him

[Oman]

Pwayne is Obvobv scum or recruiter.

[Oman]

The blatent OMGUS aside by Dr. BS (I got it too CKD)

I think our good doctor has tried (and phailed!) to come up with a good plan. The logic is there, that a NKed vanillia is not a powerrole killed and cultist gone, but he did say lynch, whether that was a slipup (which I doubt) or not I'm not sure.

The one reason I think he mispoke was he said "Try to get lynched by mafia" the mafia don't lynch on their own, nor do they control the lynch in a majority. I think he mispoke and for that I'll look at flameaxe:

Everything I've heard from you has been from a 'culty' point of view.

This is quite simply, wrong. Why would the cult put forward an idea to weaken itself?

and I think pressure would be a nice discussion starter right now...

We're discussing already. This seems like a bad excuse for a vote.

Wouldn't a townie want the mafia to kill the CULTISTS...so the town could, I dunno. Win?

He's saying that any confirmed/claimed vanillia is a perfect cult recruit target. So he's treating vanillias as potential cultists

Lynching vanillas fights back against the cultists, but is basically helping the mafia get closer to a win.

Actually, the best claim for scum is vanillia. A) The cult will try to recruit them and fail. B) the Town will not lynch them (using your reasoning). Vanillia's are pretty much an anti-town claim here. Although a real vanillia would have no reason to lie....hmmm....

Unvote Vote Flameaxe

[Oman]

I think that we shouldn't force townies to claim, but lynching them isn't too bad an idea.

1. It will be the mafia's number 1 claim, unknown number and will help them beat the cult (when the cult recruits them they will fail).

2. They are/will be cultists.

Of course, I suggest we go after the scum first as they can NK the cultists to help their win.

These 3 faction games are interesting as the scum should go after the cult, as they will grow, making it hard if not impossible to get the 50% endgame, while town goes down/stays stable.

Hmmmm....

[Oman]

I agree with Volkan, and it seems the best thing to do is not counterclaim anypowerrole claims, leading to lynch and NK...unless...oh I don't know. But Volkan did a great bit there.

[Oman]

I'm going to have to give Pwayne townie-brownies for what I feel to be geunuine anaylisis of each player.

Thats going on my list.

Rump, please explain what part of the wagon on flameaxe (read volkan's post if you want a condensed version) you disagree with?

[Oman]

Rump, you're not really flying with me.

I think your defence of flameaxe is contrived, an attempt to say what he "seemed" to do, putting defence into his mouth.

[Oman]

Townie-brownies is one of my favourite sayings that I made up (read as: stoles from a newbie who said it once in passing).

[Oman]

Oman's brownies are full of fail.

Fail and Hash.

Yeah, I don't know what's going to make me look scummy or not. (That probably made me look scummy, but I wouldn't know.)

Its not your problem IF you're town. Your problem is finding scum, not getting out squeaky clean.

I didnt ask you to unvote, I asked you what points were valid and why you felt he was pro-scum

I don't beleive for a second that unvote was attatched to what you said. The BS wagon has gone down and tyhess is just jumping off with everyone else. I also see, from CKD's P.O.V., that his questions were not answered.

Well, tyhess, you have 3-4 days worth of posts with no opinion on them?

[Oman]

I know vollkan, I see it in lost of newbies, but I still like to correct it. Its important they learn early that death is not the end, or it leads to widespread lurking.

[Oman]

Good kickstart. I'm thinking Flameaxe and Rump? Onyl a possibility at this point.

[Oman]

I don't like that vote on Pwayne at all. I think the defence of a play whos alignment is unknown should not factor into the concept at all. We have three factions here, only one of them knows who the others in their faction are (there is only one cultist now, scum know eachother). I don't like the idea of Pwayne being scum because BS looks scummy, but you say Pwayne is scummy is BS is town as well...hmmm.

I don't like it really.

[Oman]

The thing about Pwayne is that he seems to play a defensive game (evident of his lack of support in pressure votes) so I'm not supprised he's defensive.

Also, I didn't vote you or even FoS you, so I would not call it an overreaction in any way.

[Oman]

Right...the tone.

Vote Theo

[Oman]

oops

Unvote Vote Theo

[Oman]

Yeah, nice backpedaling, my vote stands.

[Oman]

What I don't like is the very scumlike (In my opinion anyway) of a psuedo-conviction. He says

Not liking a lot probably due to newbishness/scummyness

The sort of "These guys are scummy, but maybe newbs, but scummy too." Its very fence sitting.

Theo: Do you feel Rump and Tyhess are scummy because of alignment or because of experience?

[Oman]

Noone can trust you and you look like scum.

Is it just me or does this sound rather like "you look like scum, even though you're not".

I dunno, maybe its just an odd word choice. I'd be inclinded to hop off theo and onto Tyhess but i can fully see this as a bus...hmmm

[Oman]

CKD looks town/cult to me. I like most if not all of his responses and questions.

My town-looking list includes: Pwayne and CKD for now (I feel like I've forgotten someone).

Scum-looking list includes: Flameaxe and Theo

Cult-looking list includes: CKD and tyhess (of course, it can only be one).

Any objections?

[Oman]

Yeah okay, you take my cult piece of cake.

Now why am I voting for the suspected mafia instead of suspected cultist? Because I have limited experience with cults and I'm afraid that a town player would act remarkably like a cultist, especially a powerrole.

I'm gonna stick with scumhunting for now, I'm more confident.

[Oman]

I would think that the cultist would rather be looking for vanilla townies as much as he's looking for the scum.

Vanillia townies don't really need to be rooted out, they can be found through playstyle 90% of the time.

I do agree that the cult leader is most likely acting townish (or lurkish) Day 1.

Exactly, rather like a powerrole was my point. And I don't want to do anything that will get a potential powerrole lynched D1.

FOS:Oman for started the theo case (which is crap) and this:

Tell me why its crap, I voted theo for starting a crap case, and now I'm being fosed for that being a crap case. Tell me, who is scummier than theo right now?

Don't try to differentiate from scum and cult. It's pointless, at least at this point.

Thats rediculous! They would have different playstyles, we'd just discussed this! You're nuts if you think scum and cult have the same playstyle D1.

nope, you didn't miss anything. Of course there's only

8

5

6 people in a 12-person game! Everyone knows that. No worries.

Well, thats just silly, I'm not going to catergorise people I can't read. Hell I had to put CKD in two of them (though they were town/cult who we've just discussed have similar...blah blah blah)

I find ac1983's vote

more

scummy - yep he's defending me, but I feel in a way the wagon is valid, so I'm surprised ac1983 thinks its crap.

Removal mine

I agree with this entirely. ac1983 has found a wagon that was buiilding to develop pressure and simply went against it with no reasoning. I'd love to follow through with theo right now, but atm, ac1983fan is my next target.

I want to know whats wrong with this theo case?

[Oman]

[baited breath] I await [/baited breath]

[Oman]

No to me he needs to point to someone more suspicious. What he's basically saying is that this bandwagon is invalid. If this one is invalid, then he needs to propose a better one lest the town stalls.

[Oman]

If I were to vote X on the basis of me not liking his avatar and you were to, rightly, call me out for that being a stupid vote reason there would be no onus on you to prove someone else was scummier than X.

A good point, though would you relaly feel the wagon is valid based on avatar?

'Cause it could be a setup for two wrong lynches in a row

Its more a setup if the FoS is their scumbuddy and the Vote is a townie. Thats not applicable here btw.


I would like to know your stance on theo trojan. I happy to wait while you formulate it, but eventually i'd like to hear it. Thanks.

[Oman]

A few people have referenced the edit fiasco, which I would not be able to differentiate between town and scum for that.

[Oman]

MoS, can you explain why you think EITHER to be protown. I feel that Both Flameaxe and Theo are anti-town. I feel CKD to be protown.

Please explain.

[Oman]

I thought there was more mention of it myself...oh well.

[Oman]

He's smart enough to not mess up this early as town,

WIFOM. What do you think of his strange work on Blackstrike?

[Oman]

Or do you just make posts that have comments on game theory and personal playstyles versus actual game content?

This is perhaps the best line of the game.

[Oman]

The follow up post ot that hardly has me thinking that either MoS has a developed plan on theo and Flame or that theo and flame really are genuine.

Unvote Vote MoS

This is rediculous.

[Oman]

After MoS' one post saying "Theo good, Flameaxe good" I asked him for more and he said:

theopor has seemed genuine to me so far, and his posting has been full of content. Besides accusations of lurking early on, he has been contributing since then.

Flameaxe also seems genuine. He's smart enough to not mess up this early as town, and I think that a lot of his "vote-hopping" was just randomness. When he did extra "vote-hopping", it was because he was done being random and wanted to make a serious vote that just happened to not be on the person he was voting before. In addition, I don't think there is anything inherently scummy about vote-hopping, as long as you have a reason that you can give to back up your votes.

He completly brushes over the fact that flameaxe came under the microscope not for vote hopping, but for his poor case on Blackstrike.

His analysis of theo is in my mind incorrect, as even scum can have content, and that doesn't mean they're pro-town.

Basically his reluctance to jump on either of the major wagons for reasons I don't like make me think he's scummy.

[Oman]

Mod Edit

Official Vote Count #9

theopor_COD[2](vollkan, tyhess)
tyhess[2](ac1983fan, Trojan Horse)
Flameaxe[1](Dr. Blackstrike)
Dr. Blackstrike[1](Mastermind of Sin)
Mastermind of Sin[1](Oman)


Not Voting[5](pwayne66, Flameaxe, Rump-Wat, theopor_COD, curiouskarmadog)

Sorry Plan was probably the wrong word to use. Perhaps "developed stance".

Does this mean they're town and I'm scum, and you think I'm playing them, trying to gain their trust?

I think they're both scummy, and you're scummy for ignoring that they are or at the very least ignoring why.

Oman is basically saying that you should have joined the wagons unless you can articulate a good reason why not to, and he thinks you are scummy for that.

Actually I don't feel he should have joined the wagons. My point was more that he didn't and his reasons were unsatisfactory. I don't mind people not joining a wagon saying "theres enough on them" or "my gut says no" but the fact that he tried to put some "factual" (in the context of the game) reasoning behind it makes me uncomfortable.

[Oman]

And what is a "developed stance"?

He finds them both to be "genuine" which I read as "town". Thats fairly deveolped.

MoS has ignored the actual reasons for the suspicions, but why does that make him scummy?

Because town have no reason to discount reasons like that. I can't see a townie saying "well yeah, but I'll ignore your reasons and just comment on the ones I want to"

He had no obligation to wagon, but you are going to suspect him if he doesn't give good reasons not to?

Read what I said, I don't mind if he doesn't wagon. What didn't sit well was him implying he had reasons to beleive theo and flameaxe were both town, even though he ignored the case on them.

[Oman]

So, your theory is that I'm scum and They're possibly scum

scumMY! I don't know you're scum. My theory is that you are connected to one if not both in some way. I don't think there is three scum in this game (rules post), but I believe there is a connection or if they're town., you're trying to form one (buddying up).

[Oman]

My biggest problem was not that he didn't see them as scummy, but that he gave crap reasons for it, AND ignored half the case, Vollkan.

[Oman]

Sorry I didn't see it:

Motives are hard to guess at in this game. But if you are scum with one of them it basically is a defence of them, to get them off the hook of being lynchbait.

[Oman]

I do not understand your question. I particularly dislike saying that anything is "evidence" in this game.

[Oman]

NO! I never do that. I can't stand that metagame strategy and I will not take part in it.

[Oman]

The reason I suspect him originally began with his small half-post about theo and flameaxe. Then his defence contained very little about the actual case on them.

I'm not sure what the motives are in that, I'm not sure why either type of MoS (protown, scum, neutral, cult) would have done it, but it didn't sit well with me as a protown action.

[Oman]

I would like to say quickly that I mostly agree with Voll "the interrigator" kan because I've seen him play town, and this is very townlike. Not to mention the fact that he is so damn convincing and authoritive.

Basically, he persuades me a lot, as do other players, but the others haven't posted such posts on such topics.

[Oman]

Am I alone in not being surprised?

I'm with you.

Great post there, its nice to see someone else calling MoS out. Lets see if he twists your words.

[Oman]

How productive. You realise you're leading the vote count right?

[Oman]

Its your desire to help the town that makes me convince you're not scum.

[Oman]

Tyhess's list looks incedibly sketch. 3 bandwagonees are the three on his list? I don't know. Especially since I'm more thinkingtheo is town after his reaction to the "wagon" on him. Also I never bought the Dr. BS thing.

Tyhess, what is it about those three you find scummy?

[Oman]

I'd just like to make a comment on this:

Omanscum <3: Oi, my first game was with Mr. Oman, and his play here doesn't really fit with that of N417. This may mean something, it may not. As for now, I'm leaning towards not, at least until I see some posts now that I are back up to speed in the game. Definitely seems to be pushing discussion, very agreeing. Pressuring up on MoS. Could go either way with him, really.

I'd like to comment that A) I'm trying to evolve my playstyle actively (I started an improvment thread) B) As a newbie my play style is always evolving C) I dislike metagaming

Okay, just thought I'd mention it.

[Oman]

Theo, please explain that slip you found. I can't get anything out of it except that not all but one is protown.

[Oman]

No I mean, you call it a towntell...why?

[Oman]

Theo...How am i fishing by asking what you meant by this:

I dunno whether

that's a town-tell

or just a basic slip.

Emphasis mine.

You say its a town tell!

No I mean, you call it a towntell...why?

I don't need to reveal why. Quit fishing.

BEGONE

Unvote Vote Theo

MoS is still heavily on my list but that conversation was just screwed!

[Oman]

Mod Edit

Official Vote Count #14

tyhess[3](ac1983fan, Trojan Horse, Flameaxe)
theopor_COD[3](vollkan, tyhess, Oman)
Mastermind of Sin[2](White, pwayne66)
ac1983fan[2](theopor_COD, curiouskarmadog)
Flameaxe[1](Dr. Blackstrike)
Dr. Blackstrike[1](Mastermind of Sin)


Not Voting[0]()

Reread page 9-14

Tyhess:

Gets bit uppity about the edit thing.

Vollkan:

Defends trojan a bit, but in true vollkan style. Seems to be on the right side of everyone. Either agreeing or being agreed with. Works hard on either side of the MoS/Oman debate. Makes a comment about "If MoS is scum this has validity" (or somewhat) but I don't see how this is even logical. If we knew mos was scum we needent worry. I also don't like the way MoS's not reading the game was "rational"

MoS:

I still don't like that post about Flameaxe and theo, for the same reasons that he ignores a lot of game content when he posts them. He ignores a question from me in 211 about blackstrike. MoS either doesn't read or is constantly twisting people's words (see: 228)

ZOMG NOTE:

You don't have to be sure of our

alignment

SINGULAR! Theo and MoS a team? Or Flameaxe and Mos? (I'm not sure to who he refers). MoS wants me to metagame him (?)

244 Mos likes to WIFOM himself in 3rd person. 248 MoS proves he doesn't read the game by saying I called him scum.

CKD:

Absolutley owns MoS in 214

Pwayne:

Posts without comment on the action Then gets into it and calls MoS on a few things. Now I find this interesting as it would have been almost easier to go after me had Pwayne been scum. He could have got vollkan on side, and with him, the town. Pwayne scores high townie brownies for it.

Blackstrike:

Is he still here? I thought he posted a "will post content" and then bailed. But it turns out he came back...just ...not to post content.

White

I dislike white's analysises. Basically you're either newb, scum, or neutral.


Just got killed in scumtube will post the rest later up to post 283

[Oman]

MoS is in fact correct, In White's eyes players are newb, scum, or neutral (by which I mean No conclusion).

[Oman]

Yeah you're right, apparrently you don't need to explain anything to the town :eyeroll:

[Oman]

Shh Tyhess. He doesn't need to explain himself to you.

[Oman]

I did not see a reason either Vollkan, which is why I asked for an explaination. I saw where the "slip" was but I didn not see it as a town-tell.

[Oman]

Activity surge FTW.

I'll post now.

[Oman]

I'm starting on page 15 btw (activity!) Firstly

Unvote

A lot has gone on. I don't know where we're up to. This might go back on at the end of this post.

Tyhess is talking about theo being protown now? didn't he top the suspicion list and earn a vote?

Oman was actively pressing me for something which I felt was a town-tell, fishing for information.

Well, I just wanted clarification. It was fishing, but not for anything sinister. I was fishing for information, but not role or anything else like that, so I don't see how that is a bad thing.

Oman's starting to bug me aswell but that's probably just OMGUS.

Sorry

I think that explains how you misinterpretted my English mistake as saying that the cultist thinks there was only one other person, compared to what I meant to say was that the mafia knew their was only 1 person they didn't know (the cultist).

So...wait what...you meant mafia? Okay so you meant one person OTHER THAN THEMSELVES. Which makes more sense for mafia than cult....hmm.

I don't like Tyhess' idea about focusing on people for 4 days or whatever. Deadlines come man.

I'm not sure if you remember this or not but there are only 2 catagories of people in this game.

3

Town and not town.

Town, Mafia (I called them scum), and cult. Mafia and cult do not know eachother or interact, therefor should be seperate.

Trojan suggests lynching a lurker. Normally I'd slam for this, but it was in passing and its been hit by a few people already.

CKD was just plain bitchy to white. If you're going to slam someone for contribution, at least do some yourself. CKD's explaination to this is unsatisfactory for me(?) BTW: 2-3 pages is a long time.

Theo is being unhelpful (yes, you are) and simply a jerk. I don't see that as scummy anymore. I think he might just be a jerky town. it makes more sense for scum to be more "helpful".

Even people that were agreeing with me a lot put me at like #3 on their scumlist

Leading me to think you are town. Plus, as I've seen you behave in scumtube (I know I said I hated metagaming) you are pretty....nuts and unstable. Yet, I assume you know what you're doing (??) You have been pretty strange, but I don't think strange = scummy anymore.

I don't like white saying he'd be happy with a MoS lynch even if he was protown because he's a "deadweight" but is "unsettled" on the acfan wagon (who is even more a deadweight).

You consider me deadweight because you aren't stopping to consider whether or not I'm actually trying to accomplish something with what I'm doing, instead just jumping ahead to the easy solutions.

I can believe this, but damn it had better be good.

Dude...that's really....not IC-ish...

This isn't a newbie is it?

Tyhess are you now objecting to a MoS lynch?

what happens if we got an all out lynch on you (7 people)....then that would mean at the minimum 4 protown players......it wouldn't give us any extra info......

FTR, I can't pick a lynch atm. Theo is crazy, as is MoS, but I'm willing to bet that MoS has a plan and Theo will come good. I'm gonna put a vote on the player I think has been the most sketch so far without reason.

Vote Tyhess

MAJORFOS: Flameaxe

I am against voting for lurkers when the only thing they've done in ages is lurk.

Tyhess has changed his stance on MoS a fair bit without seeming to, his posts are contradictory and sometimes even within themselves. I disagree right now with the other 3 major wagons.

[Oman]

I don't know exactly where I stand on this MoS issue. His posts seem to be in parallel to this idea that he's saying. He's been scummy, but this is what makes me think he's town: He hasn't pushed a wagon, hasn't built a case, and hasn't taken anyone remotly near a lynch. In fact, he's put down his random vote, defended and hasn't voted since. Why is that MoS?

I agree he's not activly scumhunting much, but he is helping to defend who he thinks are townies, and I just can't see scum sitting there while all this happens and not even placing a vote or pushing a wagon.

[Oman]

Vote MoS

I'm going with Trojan Horse here, that last vote was obviously a joke about theo thinking I'm scum or something and then saying "but thats probably just OMGUS".

I don't know MoS, can we stop this game and get back to the scumhunting.

[Oman]

Stop being Oppressive to the mod.

[Oman]

That vote on Trojan is off though.

[Oman]

Vote MoS

I'm going with Trojan Horse here, that last vote was obviously a joke about theo thinking I'm scum or something and then saying "but thats probably just OMGUS".

I don't know MoS, can we stop this game and get back to the scumhunting.

What was obvious about it? Trojan Horse may have put a non-serious expression to it, but it was not the first time something like that had been said. I felt that some pressure should be applied, because statements like that are just appeals to emotion, and they can subconsciously get people to lean towards not voting the person. Better curbed now than let it continue.

Unvote

Unvote

A rational explaination, doesn't sound like backpedaling to me.

This argument is interesting, cause it feels like there is at least 1 scum of Vollkan, Pwayne, MoS, but I don't know who.

About the claim situation MoS, I'm not going to ask for a claim until -1, and in a game where powerrole/vanillia means everything, I'm not going to take any claim too seriously.

I.e. A powerrole claims vanillia to cause the cult to attempt a recruit and fail thus helping the town. A vanillia might claim a powerrole (but a rare one like hider or tracker) to prevent the cult from recruiting them. Claims in this game should not be taken at face value.

[Oman]

Wait, mos is at -1?

[Oman]

I have been, but only Vollkan said he was at -1, and I never trust player vote counts (if not scum they could just make a mistake)

[Oman]

then way would you ask for a claim if MoS ever got to -1 if you would disregard it anyway

I'm sorry...where did I say this? Please quote the post and/or highlight the sentence.

[Oman]

Yeah, but I never said I'd disregard it.

I said I wouldn't take it too seriously and then I said I would take it at face value.

I'm still going to read and ponder.

[Oman]

Sorry, should be not take it on face value. I'm tired and have been drinking, so my typing is rather erratic.

The sentence is contradictary without that not anyway.

[Oman]

Umm I would still take it seriously, just not tooooooooo seriously. I.e. A doc claim would not have the instant unvote power and a banillia claim would be WIFOMed and considered to death before i acted either way. I would sitll consider, they just wouldn't be the be all and end all of the argument.

Ya, and just in case i missed one...NOT

[Oman]

Mod Edit

Official Vote Count #20

tyhess[3](ac1983fan, Flameaxe, Mastermind of Sin)
Mastermind of Sin[2](White, tyhess)
ac1983fan[1](theopor_COD)
theopor_COD[1](vollkan)
Flameaxe[1](Dr. Blackstrike)


Not Voting[4](curiouskarmadog, pwayne66, Trojan Horse, Oman)

---

OMG, Mini 500... Post 500... Coincidence? I think not!

If you are not going to take a claim at face value, then there is no point in asking for one. IF someone is at –1 and claims doctor…you unvote (just in case) for discussion…

you've misread my post on claiming, hyperbolised it and now you're going on about some random shit that involves me not unvoting on a doc claim.

Why are you unvoting MoS? What changed versus your original argument against him.

I unvoted MoS because THAT vote on him was due to the Trojan Horse vote, he explained it rationally and I unvoted.

why do you think vollkan or pwayne might be scummy?

Because I'm willing to bet one of the three is, the conversation just doesn't SOUND right for three townies hammering it out. AS I SAID EARLIER.

Now YOU are backpedaling …

Read first, comment later.

[Oman]

If you are not going to take a claim at face value, what is the point in asking for one?!?!?

BECAUSE I WILL STILL CONSIDER IT, IT JUST WONT BE "AT FACE VALUE"!

YOU WANT TO USE CAPS? WE CAN USE CAPS!

[Oman]

Me being an easy target? Shrug.

Shrug is one of those words you can't exclaim

SHRUG!.

[Oman]

BAh, I tried to answer your question like....3 times, and each time it wasn't good enough...wait...this is familiar.

[Oman]

I'm not exactly rational right now

[ulr=http://youtube.com/watch?v=HJI0Pgc3_6U]Excibit A[/url]

[Oman]

Also I can't type tags

Excibit A

You pounced on me for a word error and just kept hammering a question saying my arnswer was invalid.

[Oman]

Mafia is the bane of my schoolwork.

[Oman]

Ok, first off i'd like to say that Oman has (this is in agreement with what has already been posted) been acting very strange. I'm not sure whether it's scummy or just idiotic yet though.

Stop oppressing me, idiotic is a stupid thing to call someones play when you don't have the facts.

Don't vote unless you think the person is very likely to be scum or you're ok with the person being lynched. If you're not settled, don't vote.

You suck at bandwagoning for pressure.

QFT, I couldn't have said it better, this is what I was trying to say before.

No you weren't you were trying to say he was scum.

*laugh* Dismissed *laugh*

Don't start the metagame unless you can finish it.

So basically MoS asks one question 4-5 pages back that I thought was retorical and that makes me seem like scum.

You really are oversimplifying.

Kevin Smith just happens to be one of my favorite directors/writers ever.

So much phail. And Bill Hicks would be rolling over in his grave.

vote whitey

You seem to twist everything so that it fits you. And I don't like how hard you're pushing the MoS wagon.

[Oman]

Gut feeling should come first.

In fact no-one should need to vote based on "gut" this far into it. There should be something that smells fishy.

[Oman]

I don't know what you'd call it but I like to call it pressure.

Don't vote unless you think the person is very likely to be scum or you're ok with the person being lynched.

I call it bandwagoning for a lynch. Contradiction? Yes.

[Oman]

Don't vote unless you think the person is very likely to be scum or you're ok with the person being lynched.

That doesn't sound like there is any grey area? Perhaps you should understand if you say something like that I'm going to interpret it as your denail of pressure votes.

Lrn2play kthxbai

Stop oppressing me.

[Oman]

It might be a little early to start asking this but re:deadline..

Semi-baseless Lynch or No lynch

[Oman]

yeah, I always go for lynch (the game is based around odd/even cycles so nolynch only helps on doc protect).

Where is Doctor BS?

[Oman]

then why ask us if we lynch or no lynch? (if you always go for a lynch?)

Because I wanted the rest of the town's perspective (which I still haven't got). I do not personally control voting, so I can't really swing it one way or the other myself alone.

[Oman]

CKD is a wildcard to me too. I wouldn't lynch on it now, but there is little read.

[Oman]

An extension to next Friday would be nice. I think we're getting pretty good activity now, but it's really dumb to have a lynch rushed when we're finally getting back on track with out discussion instead of just talking about me all the time.

For what it's worth, I would like an extension also.

Yeah, if it has any bearing put me down.

[Oman]

Mod Edit

Official Vote Count #24

tyhess[2](Flameaxe, Mastermind of Sin)
Mastermind of Sin[1](tyhess)
ac1983fan[1](theopor_COD)
theopor_COD[1](vollkan)
Flameaxe[1](Tarhalindur)
White[1](Oman)


Not Voting[5](curiouskarmadog, pwayne66, Trojan Horse, White, Kakeng)

---

Recall that a

majority of voting players

is needed for a lynch to occur at deadline. You have a little less than a week... I will consider extending deadline if there is a high demand for it... I have not seen many players requesting such...

I don't like that CKD, on a personal level. The guy is trying to get better (has posted asking how to post content) replacing him doesn't help.

[Oman]

Unvote Vote Flameaxe

You're doing little for the game, and my white vote is doing nothing where it is.

[Oman]

Baited breath!

[Oman]

Probably why you feel tyhess is the most scummy when its been MoS, White, Pwayne, and Vollkan going at it. Do you think ANY of them are scum?

[Oman]

I wouldn't mind your opinions on said issues.

You're right on what happened, but beyond one FoS theres no other input.

Then again, its only pg 6

[Oman]

Unvote.

Flameaxe has returned to us.

Vote White

thus I shall return.

[Oman]

This thing by trojan is strange.

I just had a little re-read and I can see why he felt pressured to vote, but I don't think anyone specifically pressured him into a vote either way.

[Oman]

Trojan is backpedalling fast.

[Oman]

*baits breath*

[Oman]

Sorry guys, took the long weekend off. I would have to say that MoS' random vote cracked me up and highlights his feeling on the game very well.

[Oman]

I would only go for a Trojan Horse, White, or Tyhess lynch, kar is not nearly as scummy as you're making him out to be (Then again, White isn't as scummy as the other two on my list).

[Oman]

I took my vote off MoS and called him town a while ago, though I'm not 100% sure on that.

The others have cases scattered through the game. Go look for it. I'm lazy.

[Oman]

I don't know how much trouble I'm going to get in for this, but it needs be said:

Are we going to lynch soon or wait for deadline? I simply ask because D1 has been bled pretty dry and the lack of info means we're not going many places.

[Oman]

put me down for the 10th. I'd comment, but thats the only interesting thing this page bar mos' change in avatar.

[Oman]

Sorry, unavaliable next 48hrs, Australian weekend. sorry.

[Oman]

Back, reading and posting tonight.

[Oman]

I have read and have nothing to add.

[Oman]

No i didn't MoS. I read the stuff I missed while away. A page or two.

[Oman]

.....PHAIL!

[Oman]

Unvote vote Tarhalindur

That last post was so off. Bandwagoning 4 days out of deadline just because its big, eh.

[Oman]

I....hate you.

[Oman]

mafia 68? care to fill me in?

[Oman]

Guys, I have a thought.

What if we let him live and see how his opinions on others change. Someone he was previously happy to lynch he is now hesitant etc.

[Oman]

I'm in complete agreement with Pwayne. Anyone who thinks we should lynch a claimed Vanillia should DIAF, anyone who is with me in saying that this is not a good wagon and its stupid idea (

unvote

) gets muh townie brownies.

Pwanye gets them, Ckd does too but I'm more reluctant about him.

[Oman]

Add MoS to my list of brownie nominees

[Oman]

Okay...whoops, I completely misread pwaynes posts. I read the last 2 pages and I see what is going on. I'm with MoS

Vote Pwayne66

At the worst

Tar is recruited by the cult and he's now scum. BUT WAIT! What if, and I know this sounds weird, we let Tar live, right, as scum. Then we see who we can connect him with. As the only cultist, besides the leader, we can then find the leader! ZOMG!

The cult is my biggest fear in the game as they can get quite a large voting block. Two scum, two votes. By D3 we could have 3 cult members, even if we lynch cult everyday we're still 1 behind.

[Oman]

Sure, You and CKD are pro-tar lynch, who you accept is a vanilla. So you're pro-town lynch.

[Oman]

Uh hu. The wagon on you is huge, it has nothing to do with the fact that I've been away for 48 hrs, got back, misread something you said and now want you (scumbum) to die.

[Oman]

God dammit. I only read pwaynes posts on my second read (it was specific to him) and now I've read yours. I swear he should put who he quotes in his post.

This Post really threw me off, especially the last line.

I didn't even realise you were voting him.

I appologise ckd, I know nothing I can say will get rid of your angry vote on me, but I hope you understand I did a "find posts by" on Pwayne and got so damn confused.

[Oman]

Simulposted earlier:

you still have not read crap Oman..why are you voting again?

I read pwayne only, got confused.

That being said I feel happy my vote stands.

[Oman]

There is a fault in Vollkan's numbers. They don't take into account if Tar is lieing, either as scum or town trying to trick the scum/cult.

[Oman]

EDIT: Just so that you know I am reading, I know vollkan discussed not including Tarscum/Tarcult.

[Oman]

The scum roleblocker? I know it says Godfather front page, but that doesn't mean it has to be a godfather in a closed setup.

[Oman]

Yuppers, a claim is still good though.

Anyway.

unvote vote Tyhess

that is trying so hard to be town its just cute. And you haven't been an angel all game either.

[Oman]

Once the cult leader dies the cult cannot recruit, that is standard practise, though it may be different for this game (Cultist, can you please PM the mod and ask, then tell us?)

Actually I may just:

Mod:

Does a cult recruit inherit Cult Leader's power upon the latter's death?

Okay...if we have a cultist (and we may not, could've tried a powerrole or mafia) then we leave them for now. We have no idea who they are, and no reason to hunt them, the mafia are a bigger voting block now.

Tyhess was dumb, but I wouldn't vote on it.

[Oman]

Thank you Guardian.

Cult is not a problem for now, for a long time. Lets get rid of NKing scum, I'd be inclined to think

that any sane cultist would do their best to help us get rid of scum because they have no chance against them

.

[Oman]

Lulz. White, please stop oppressing me from beyond the grave.

Or maybe that flaming skull gives him some power...Gasp-a-roo!

[Oman]

No Tyhess. Not at all.

[Oman]

Vote: Tarhalindur

I don't buy it at all. I think because you claimed yesterday you think you're invulnerable to attack.

That was a poor move, and I don't think its pro-town at all.

[Oman]

Those reasons are his actions re: deadline right?

[Oman]

Partly. Partly b/c of his active lurking.

Confirmed.

Well now. If he is scum, he's a lot bolder than I could ever be. Personally, I don't think that's likely;

I understand your point, and it was quite convincing when I read it first, but then I thought: Firstly there is the WIFOM to that aspect. Secondly, I have seen scum self vote when bored with a game (essentially they post a "I'm bored/tired of this game" and self vote) especially around an impending lynch.

Your going into MoS's "if you vote for me you're scum" theory, which I didn't like in the first place.

This is very close to my opinion. You did something scummy as hell, and then said that anyone who attacks you for it is scum/needs some pressure.

My vote stands.

[Oman]

and I also think it is interesting that Oman asks Pwayne to clarify his vote for Flameaxe.

He just said reasons I stated earlier. So I wanted to clarify them (because his earlier post was directed at someone else).

I'm fine with pwayne's vote, it seems logical.

[Oman]

I'm with the interrigator here (yes, I still can't spell).

FoS: tyhess

[Oman]

I will now say

UnFoS: tyhess

I'm not just following vollkan, we had the same problem.

Now: Re: Troj's 1185

I think that #1 is a scumtell. the intent was to get a wagon on Bam going, but when that failed Tar attempted a cover up and tried to get a wagon on me going for it( #3)

[Oman]

Aye Trojan, I'd go for a Flameaxe lynch.

[Oman]

Cause the game has stalled Vollkan, and one super cool wagon might bring it back.

Its casual lynch support, because I casualy support the wagon, whether it lynches or not is really regardless, I just want the activity.

[Oman]

The vote count was lonely.

[Oman]

Vollkan found some good links there...how interesting.

[Oman]

Uh!

Unvote Vote Trojan Horse

Not only were the two arguments very persuasive, but also this line:

Finally; at some point, we should pitch in and do one of these breakdowns for theo. Not that I think he's scum; I just think turnabout is fair play.

That is a useless line and everytime I've seen it its scum trying to deflect.

[Oman]

1) After my previous post (the Flame-Trojan links), I was somewhat surprised to see Trojan at it again.

I'm sure it was a parody.

I really have a problem with people voting solely off other people's arguments; it always reeks of opportunism to me.

You may think that, but your arguments persuaded me mightly. Its the strongest two-player link all game.

[Oman]

Plus, Oman always needs to die, regardless. Oi.

This is the only logical deaththreat I've seen so far.

[Oman]

Okay, I'm doing this because a self hammer that is threatened will really annoy me and decrease any information we pull out.

Unvote Vote Flameaxe

BTW: Townie claims no longer have cult baggage attatched.

[Oman]

Well I guess I called your bluff then.

[Oman]

Which game or thread?

[Oman]

That was Lulz worthy.

[Oman]

Okay, Tar mentioned a massclaim, which could be good, and I'd be happy to do it.

Secondly, we obviously have a doctor in here. And either a roleblocker or our SK/Vig didn't kill last night.

[Oman]

Ah, sorry. I missed that whole page 52.

Including your numbers and MoS' Bah.

I just read the day scene which had no who is dead thing so I got confused.

As there is no proven doctor, the vig staying alive is more important and as such I draw back my massclaim idea.

[Oman]

I'm throwing some more townie brownies around. These ones are going to vollkan for what seem to be very logical and well looked at PBPA, he doesn't inflate anything on me and doesn't deminish it either.

I would say that deserves the brownies.

[Oman]

Thats a good point about Tar's weirdness occuring after N1. Though the recruit should be scumhunting, knowing that the scum will just endgame them.

With an assumed recruit and two mafia we are at:

1 : 2 : 3

If Tar is a recruit, its best we leave him alone and focus on the scum (for my money TH/Pwayne/Theo are the most likely).

[Oman]

I agree that Tar is most likely the recruit.

[Oman]

Its a point, but as a now survivour, he has to look just townie enough to avoid lynch and just scummy enough to avoid NK.

[Oman]

Mod Edit

Official Vote Count #54

Not Voting[6](Oman, vollkan, Tarhalindur, pwayne66, Trojan Horse, theopor_COD)

Hold on.

1:2:2 (is this right?)

NL
Vig/mafia cross-Kill: 1:1:1 Tar would claim and win regardless.

You're right 1 No Lynch and Tar wins.

I'm not sure who I feel happy lynching today. It would suck to lose this today or tonight.

[Oman]

So the best numbers for Tar would be to help us catch the scum.

TAR: DO IT!

[Oman]

SHHHH! It was designed to get Tar active...you've ruined it now

I noticed you left out vig No Killing. I suppose it has little outcome on the results.

[Oman]

Oh right, thanks for that clear up.

[Oman]

Tar, if you are the recruit, you might as well claim. No-one is going to target you, and you have to hunt scum as much as we do.

[Oman]

I'm almost ready to vote pwayne, firstly he's broken the ice on the voting, but mostly, TH is suddenly not that scummy.

I definatly will think about this.

[Oman]

1) What gives with the "I'm okay with a FA lynch" , with no reasons given?
2) What gives with the awkward FA lynch?
3) What reasons do you have to think that I am scum?
4) Could we get an up to date scumdar?
5) Why does TH seem less scummy to you?

1) I believe I did state some reasons. Flameaxe was rather scummy (not overly so) and was threatening to self hammer. Self hammers annoy me, for one. Also, the threat to self hammer was, in my eyes, scum trying to get people to back off saying "Scum wouldn't do that" or something of the kind. Plus, self lynches result in less info, as the hammer isn't around to be questioned.

2) Oh sorry, answered this above.

3) Well, I happen to think that Vollkan and I are both town. I also happen to think that Tar is at worst a recruit. As you said yourself: Process of elimination. The reason I haven't voted you is that I don't feel thats enough. I'm much more afraid of the lurkers, but theo has been replaced in other games. My suspicion of TH was based on a suspicion of Flameaxe (which was rather weak) upon Flameaxe's "Town reveal" I almost disregarded TH. Which is probably the wrong thing to do.

4) I'm not big on %s but right now I'd say:
Scum: Pwayne, TH(possibly theo, but the lurking is adding to it)
Town: Vollkan, Oman, (theo or TH) (poss Tar)
Cult: Tar/Vollkan (not discounting this, he'd be a great cult asset, therefore likely target)

5) My suspicion of TH was based on a suspicion of Flameaxe (which was rather weak) upon Flameaxe's "Town reveal" I almost disregarded TH. Which is probably the wrong thing to do.


Anyway, after being forced to review my own scumdar

Vote Trojan Horse

[Oman]

I just lumped us together vollkan, thats the only reason I said "think".

As for TH. I frankly feel he is the scummiest from his earlier behaviour. One main reason I was against TH was because he had a a strong 2P link to Flameaxe. When that dissappeared I gave up on him wrongly. After pwayne made me think about it, TH was extremely scummy early on (or, at the least, droped many many scumtells).

[Oman]

Epic Phail pwayne

[Oman]

Because I'm not scum.

I'm not going to say why you think vollkan is going easy on me. But you're wrong on me, I'm town

[Oman]

NOOOOOO Now I need to distill the thread.

GG.

I'll be back in an hour or too.

[Oman]

It should register as "NOOOO 56 pages!"

[Oman]

Yes, TH, I do think so. Basically it leaves someone (me) to be questioned. The scum try to take me down with it, or the town post good questions about it, or whatever, the point is its a very strong topic that leads to very very revealing conversation (okay, so maybe its not as good as I wished it was).

Also, the lotsa vote thing is what you said it was, I like to keep my vote on the person I feel scummiest at the time. I'm the complete opposite of Vollkan (who asks lots of questions and then votes). I like to put the pressure down first and then question them while they (hopefully) sweat.

[Oman]

Like I said previously Vollkan, if someone self-hammers, you cannot question them. Conversation finds scum therefore living hammerer > dead hammerer.

[Oman]

Mod, have you tried the townies that have died in this game? They could replace in (and would be more up to speed).

[Oman]

That second quote isn't mind. Its rather obvious, but just for the record.

[Oman]

Mod Edit

Official Vote Count #57

Oman[1](pwayne66)
Trojan Horse[1](Oman)


Not Voting[4](vollkan, Tarhalindur, Trojan Horse, theopor_COD)

Hmm troj is attaacking me (the group's target) and theo (absent) how interesting.

[Oman]

Unvote Vote Trojan Horse

I didn't remember him listing theo down so low, that is definatly worthy of a vote.

[Oman]

gah, i knew it. I need to check my votes.

[Oman]

I severely doubt that 2:1 is better than 3:2 at all,

Claims would have a lot to do with it. Unless we lose the vig earlier.

Another thing is, MoS has been very anti-vig. Now with the quality of some of the players here (unfortunatly I include MoS in that), the vig is scums biggest threat. I mean, MoSvig would find scum well. Vollkvig is synomous with scumdeath to me (:(). You look at that kind of thing and think "what would scum want the vig to do?" the answer is a nokill, as they can win without a miskill easily enough.

[Oman]

Especially as not ALL roles are open.

[Oman]

The 1:1:1 scenario requires No Lynch and cross-kills to win. As I said, the mafia will go for the cultist and the cultist will go for the mafia, each hoping the other takes out the townie.

Cult don't kill.

I agree with this whole "vig no-kill" due to the numbers and logic that are actually coming out.

I don't think it is so unlikely that he would attempt this as either since it has 3 effects:
1) Cult fails to recruit N1
2) He safeguards himself from NKs (vig or mafia)
3) He safeguards himself from lynches

What an awesome gambit.

[Oman]

EBWOP: sorry simulposted, ignore my first line.

[Oman]

Okay, I'd put money on Tar or TrojH being scum. Yes, this is mainly because of the explosive accusation on vollkan there.

[Oman]

OR trojanscum.

I don't want to bus tar if i don't have to [/joke!]

[Oman]

Unvote

A no-lynch seems good. A no-vig seems dubious, but the vig is prolly pwayne or someone who will listen to MoS over me, and I don't blame them, its only 3 years difference.

[Oman]

Vote Nolynch

Well MoS, its not our choice (unless you're the vig).

[Oman]

Bah, go town. Good find scum.

[Oman]

I tried so hard not to get caught.

Fuck Vollkan and his reading dedication.

Well Played guys, I enjoyed that immensly.

The No Lynch/No Vig thing was an absolute godsend for the mafia.

I was finding it hard to argue with it without A) making myself seem like the vig and B) making myself seem mafia.