NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[pieguyn]

ALL YOU ALL READY FOR THIS

let me just read the thread first ><

[pieguyn]

warning: lazy as fuck catchup post so I probably missed a lot of shit

22 Sakura scum. I'm having a shitton of trouble believing this post came from the same person who always preaches "reasonless RVs are bad", and MC Maraca hadn't posted yet, so I don't see how it's not an RV.
47 giving me weird vibes. it seems really really serious compared to the rest of the thread. not sure how comfortable I feel with that given he's townreading geists for being "at ease". however this is gut and looking back on it later I think this makes him seem town. it seems he legitimately wants to get the game going already
55 tammy town
70 goodmorning town
139 I agree MC seems town
173 I'm liking BRO's willingness to work with a mutual townread here. however, I still have paranoia from imperishable night. he doesn't seem like he's trolling as much here, which may be a good sign
184 goodmorning even more town
238 MC town
256 give me bourbon plz

this is really weird for me since I still feel like a lot of the game is in the fucking around stage. anyone who knows me knows that I generally get going immediately. oh well
I'm also not liking Ceph atm, but it's mostly gut and I can't be assed to go back and find anything specific ._.

284 I'm kind of ass backwards skipping over a lot of specific shit here, but I'm especially curious about this
312 this, I grok. fuck it, BRO can go into the townpile
326 not liking this argument. Brian hasn't even posted in like forever, so he didn't really have much of a chance to push anyone else at all 0.0
340

Except where it doesn't make sense, I keep my stances pretty transparent.

huh
362 what the fuck is that vote. he posts all these giant reads walls then votes someone who he hasn't even mentioned? dafuq
365 ok finally smth apparent I noticed about Cephrir - he didn't out his opinion the deals when the first one came up and all of a sudden he does it on this one? it's convenient how it happens to be when people are saying Nacho looks scummy. this makes me think this read was based off convenience and not legitimate scumhunting
415 huh I'm seeing what you all are about Generic - in fast and furious he seemed pretty adamant about getting Telo lynched
445 Generic can be town too
451 "hey I'm just going to buddy everyone who's scumreading me so I won't get found out"
463 what the hell is that I thought for some reason maraca was townreading Tammy I need to go back and look at this again
546 I don't like this on a playstyle level. in practice it's probably not alignment indicative, but read the fucking game make areal vote

haven't seen anything at all since 546. probably bc I'm being a lazy fuck atm. I'll just wing it from here and hope for the best

other things of note, KoreanBBQ has a shitton of content and there's nothing in there that gave me a townread on them. feeling kind of icky about them atm

[pieguyn]

town
1. Tammy
2. geists (fferyllt + Natirasha)
4. MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal)
10. pieguyn SonOfZeus

probably town
5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon
6. Generic
11. BROseidon
14. goodmorning

null
3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665)
8. MafiaSSK roflwaffles
9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon)
12. Brian Skies
16. pitoli
18. DOMO

lurkfuck/unsorted
7. roflcopter
17. talah
20. Desperado

scum
13. KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain)
15. Sakura Hana
19. Cephrir

@EVERYONE:

if one of my townreads or null-town reads is wrong who do you think it probably is?

@KoreanBBQ:

what's up with that statement of how Varsoon is scum if he had less than 2 posts at whichever point? I'm especially curious

let's fucking go \:D/

[pieguyn]

also

vote: Sakura

GET READY I'M GONNA TAKE YOU ON A WILD RIDE

[pieguyn]

I never said it wasn't an RV, and wouldn't scum me try to do something I do as town instead of something different?

1. then what was the point of that vote? maraca didn't have any posts and you didn't give a reason

2. no. you could be WIFOMing, or you could be scum who's scared as fuck at the start of the game and was afraid to give out any reasons. for an example of scum doing smth different, see touhou upick and how it was fking obvious bc I played like shit that whole game. however, I wouldn't put it past you to try it and be skilled enough to pull it off too

[pieguyn]

also by saying "something different" are you indicating you never give a reasonless RV as town?

[pieguyn]

1. Because it's Maracabd and us 3 go ways long.

2. Who's the one WIFOMing here?

1. see that's my point. given you always say that reasonless RVs are bad, why wouldn't you just out the reason at the time when you made the RV?

2. this is one of the most deflective answers I've ever seen and doesn't actually answer my point. not to mention you don't even say how my post is WIFOM. can you explain plz? also, I'd appreciate if you could answer the question directed towards "EVERYONE" in big bold letters at the end of my catch-up post

[pieguyn]

1. I didn't have one at the time, I just wanted to leave a post in the thread.

I don't get it. can you explain further

2. You're the one that's bringing it WIFOM about it, I repeat, why wouldn't I do something I normally do as town when I'm scum rather than something different?

no I pointed out a valid reason and you're the one who chose to put up a WIFOM defense by going "why would I do xxx as scum"

@KoreanBBQ: what's up with that statement of how Varsoon is scum if he had less than 2 posts at whichever point? I'm especially curious

Simple. I've never read Varsoon wrong. Before that post, if most of the posts were from Varsoon, that would be way off his usual townplay and would be most likely scum.

why do you have mac as scum?

I haven't looked into SC's posts more but if Varsoon has made more posts since then how's your read on him coming along?

which of my townreads do you think is wrong?

[pieguyn]

yeah because there's no way in hell all 8 of my townreads are correct. that'd be too fucking easy and I don't want to leave any possibility for me to get blindsided down the road 0.0

[pieguyn]

Easy, I was at work when I received the day start PM i just went and looked at the playerlist voted for Maracabd and left, you'd realize i was in a hurry considering I even forgot to bookmark the thread and got a prod.

this in itself is a reason for voting them tho. even if you didn't post your reason at the time, you still had a reason 0.0

Why are you doubting your townreads and not going into your fully null-reads?

bc what I said before. I don't wanna get blindsided so if I have this many townreads I need to make sure they're all right before continuing kthx

[pieguyn]

@BBQ:

what are your thoughts on Cephrir?

@Cephrir:

what are your thoughts on BBQ?

[pieguyn]

anything specific you like about him?

[pieguyn]

@pie: What's with you asking others for their views on other people without giving your own?

except I already gave my views on both BBQ and Cephrir

also you of all people should know I like to do this. I'm finding it weird you of all people would pressure this kind of angle @_@

[pieguyn]

that doesn't really help me >_<
it reminds me of how zmuffin and you had the least specific townreads on each other in imperishable night, and you both were scum 0.0

[pieguyn]

that doesn't really help me >_<
it reminds me of how zmuffin and you had the least specific townreads on each other in imperishable night, and you both were scum 0.0

Your seemingly-blank-looking-null read on Casso doesn't help anyone either ♫
(a.k.a. Why null?)

he's been pushing people all game but I think he does that as both alignments so I don't wanna write him off as town just for that. I'm not sure I like his jump on pitoli. it seems really weird considering he hadn't included pitoli in his reads list wall before then. aside from that, he's in kind of the same boat you're in where htere's a lot of content and I'm concerned that none of it makes me wanna townread him. I moved him up to null bc I've liked his pushes on people, but I'm keeping my eye on him

also, how the fuck am I supposed to get a better read on Sakura when she only had like 3 posts? if it seems too easy it's bc I had to make a judgment based off hardly anything. her few posts that she had lean scum and that's all there is to it

[pieguyn]

@F16: the first part was due to this

At least two of them are not Town.

I liked this stance and how she's being upfront about questioning shit that she thinks is incorrect

the second part was this

On pure odds I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you.
1. It's not a stat course.
2. Odds distract people.
3. Unlikely =/= impossible, and it's not even that unlikely.

it's another stance that shows she's holding true to her beliefs

my read on BRO is a mixture of both of those things. there was another game we played where I had him as null-town almost entirely based off gut and he was scum (thankfully on d2 I turned that shit right around). some of the stuff he's done in this game, combined with the fact that it doesn't seem to match that game, makes me feel somewhat comfortable with him as town atm

generally it means that, at the time of that post, I have that person as town for various reasons. it can be bc of a certain post or a culmination of a bunch of things up to a certain post

in fast and furious Generic was town. he had a scumread on Telo, he wasn't backing down, and he seemed set on getting her lynched (eventually she got lynched and she was town). so I agree that the fact that he's more agreeable here seems odd

[pieguyn]

also you of all people should know I like to do this. I'm finding it weird you of all people would pressure this kind of angle

I know you do this regardless of alignment, I'm just wondering why you do it in general as a player since I've never asked.

bc I like asking questions \:D/ I like to see what people think about stuff and if I out anything specific it might change their answer. generally I telegraph my overall thoughts on whoever I'm asking about in some way or another tho.

come to think of it, though, I don't remember any time I've outed an opinion on smth and then when I asked someone about it they blatantly copied my answer. mb my strategy isn't such a good idea, but screw it

I'm also completely torn on whether it's a good idea to explain townreads. there's arguments for and against. when I started I was for explaining them, atm I lean towards not explaining them until asked. given what I said mb I should go back to explaining everything first

[pieguyn]

also, how the fuck am I supposed to get a better read on Sakura when she only had like 3 posts?

Except apparently you scum read me off my very first post and didnt read the other posts I made.

your first post made me lean scum -> your other posts did nothing to make me question said read

if you had had more posts there might have been smth in there to make me question my read

[pieguyn]

nah, that's not how I sort people ~

[pieguyn]

no, I think forgetting about the thread is null. you can forget about the thread as both town or scum. however, your RVS vote isn't, nor is your backpedaling on having a reason vs. not having a reason

Is my English screwing with me again or is this backing off from your scumread on sakura?

your english is screwing with you again. I'm saying someone having only a few posts won't stop me from putting them as scum

[pieguyn]

I never said it wasn't an RV, and wouldn't scum me try to do something I do as town instead of something different?

1. then what was the point of that vote? maraca didn't have any posts and you didn't give a reason

2. no. you could be WIFOMing, or you could be scum who's scared as fuck at the start of the game and was afraid to give out any reasons. for an example of scum doing smth different, see touhou upick and how it was fking obvious bc I played like shit that whole game. however, I wouldn't put it past you to try it and be skilled enough to pull it off too

1. Because it's Maracabd and us 3 go ways long.

2. Who's the one WIFOMing here?

[pieguyn]

what the crap

that makes literally no sense whatsoever

you're saying that when it was RVS you just picked someone with no intention of voting them, and then voted them for no reason? the more logical explanation is that you picked someone to vote

[pieguyn]

Well if you want to think of that as the reason then suit yourself, but then that means my RV did have a reason which basically your case on me is not having one.

no my case on you is that you had no reason and now there's a possibility you just made up said reason when I called you out for not having a reason

I didn't see Sakura saying this?

no shit. in her other post she claimed that she chose cabdmara because she knows both of them, but that was not the reason for her vote. it would thus follow that her picking them was independent of her vote on them

[pieguyn]

hm

the way I see it, in that case the reason you voted them would be bc you saw them first which you did cause you knew them. so your reason would be knowing them, or seeing them first, not "no reason". but screw it

moving on, why haven't you pushed the more traditional "you can't read me" angle? I was kind of surprised how you didn't point this out > <

[pieguyn]

Then I don't even get the point of your case on her.
I think you're just overthinking it because all I see is Sakura saying "I voted MCM because MCM."

my point was that she didn't include said reason in her RV, when she's said before how reasonless RVs are bad. then when I pressured her I didn't get what the hell the thought process was behind her RV. I still don't completely get it but oh well

[pieguyn]

yo I'm town as fuck. wanna work together?

in the meantime, why do you think geists's posts feel off?

[pieguyn]

wait wat, you were serious?
o.o

[pieguyn]

No I wasn't. (Point still stands that your scumreads suck, though.)

I thought you were joking about that cause I had you in there @_@

in that case, do you think my null reads are generally accurate?

Pieguyn, I disagree with your read on GoodMorning. How does being "upfront about questioning stuff she disagrees with" necessarily town? I find it just as likely scum would question stuff to look like town. I also don't find "holding true to her beliefs" a strong reason to read her as town.

I know some players would probably do this as scum, but I like the way she did it here. it seemed really genuine for some reason and it had the sort of defiance I attribute more to a town mindset. this line in particular sold this for me

1. It's not a stat course.

she could be scum but I'm not seeing it atm. I'll rethink this read more if a lot of people are saying I'm in the wrong tho

Also, why did you like her stance of saying that at least two of me, Generic, Geists, and Brian are not town? You seem to have put Geists as town, me and Generic as probably town, and Brian as null which is quite far off from her stance.

I disagree with her stance, but I like the fact that she made that stance in the first place. I think I mostly liked how blunt she was about it.

[pieguyn]

generally when my scumreads are wrong or I don't have enough scumreads I default to my null reads. so given you said my scumreads suck I wanted to find out if, under the assumption my scumreads are wrong, my next most likely scumreads were good

if one of my town reads is wrong who do you think it most likely is?

[pieguyn]

#swagginwagon

vote: BBQ

[pieguyn]

NachoThor is null and I got captivated by Thor's post there owo

I've retracted my scumread on you thx to our interaction earlier. I'd think you would have picked up on this given I wanted to work with you 0.0

[pieguyn]

DOMO,

Welcome to my townbloc.

can you elaborate plz

[pieguyn]

@pie: Isn't that obv to you?

errr no?

[pieguyn]

Again with the more agreeable. If you cast your mind back to my arguement with telo, she kept aggressing in our dispute so that got my own aggression up and so I got more and more determined.
Geists has been far more appeasing in their responses to me, so I have shown them the same courtesy by not leaping all over the push while I'm still not 100%.

But my vote is still on them and I continue to point out issues with them when I see one. The hesitancy of the push boils down to the fact my issues keep stemming from one of the heads posts rather than both.

what do you think about Tammy's read on geists?

[pieguyn]

what the hell is going on I don't even

[pieguyn]

talah where the hell have you been o.o

[pieguyn]

idk I was townreading her but I'm starting to have reservations about her too

Tammy brings good points. also, I find it awkward she seemed really excited when I replaced in and she hasn't interacted with me at all since then. that plus Generic's point makes me think some of the stuff she's done so far is fake 0.0 I'm being a lazy fuck right now so I haven't really tried to do any formal sorting, but that's where I'm at

what do you think about Sakura so far?

[pieguyn]

psst give me your opinion on what I said
idc if you're drunk just do it

[pieguyn]

gif who's scum

talah what do you think of BBQ?

[pieguyn]

but I wanna know what you're thinking right now ;_;

[pieguyn]

OH COME ON GIF

[pieguyn]

talah what's your read on MC?

also Cabd how the flying fuck is that fishing? 0.0

[pieguyn]

mostly Tammy's points. also I find it kind of odd how she seemed excited I was in this game and hasn't interacted with me at all since then. I'd think there'd at least be some form of interaction even if it wasn't serious or game-related.

if it was just me I'd probably write it off as paranoia but the fact that other people are starting to see similar things makes me a bit worried for the moment

do you have any reservations on her?

[pieguyn]

talah what's your read on MC?

also Cabd how the flying fuck is that fishing? 0.0

Make me a list of roles that would have information about the alignment of another player one day one.

Now name me a list of roles that fit the above list that it's a good idea to have known publically day one.

what makes you think he assumed said information was based on a role?

like when yo usaid that I figured you had some god meta read on her that had nothing to do with roles at all. >_<

[pieguyn]

@ Pie, you didn't initiate interactions with them either. Why?

cause I'm feeling like a lazy fuck right now .-.

I'm probably overloaded with games atm. Also, it's been a bad weekend and I'm feeling conflict-averse right now. When I saw you going at it with Sakura, I checked out of the thread for a while. Wasn't intentionally ignoring you, just avoiding heated stuff.

What do you want to talk about?

I'm caught up (albeit lazily) and I have a bunch of townreads but I don't wanna get blindsided. so atm I'm mostly trying to figure out which, if any, of my townreads is wrong. for convenience

town
1. Tammy
2. geists (fferyllt + Natirasha)
4. MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal)
10. pieguyn SonOfZeus

probably town
5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon
6. Generic
11. BROseidon
14. goodmorning

after being in the game for some time now, I still feel pretty comfortable with Tammy, F-16, and for the most part Generic and goodmorning in there. not sure on others tho. especially BRO who I had a gut townread on in imperishable night (fortunately I turned that shit right around on D2), even tho this one is more than gut and Cabd who I know loves playing as scum @A@

I'd also like if you could elaborate on what you meant when Tammy felt "off", bc I seriously don't see anything off about her 0.0

also I'm still trying to sort Sakura. I think I may have preemptively retracted my scumread on her. looking back on it I'm inclined to agree with DOMO that her jump on the wagon felt really weird. also some of her posting in our interaction seemed defensive for me, although that's mostly gut

[pieguyn]

@ffery:

how sure are you of maraca town? and how well do you predict this read will hold up as the game continues (barring anything really indicative like a cop guilty)?

@maracabd:

do you two have a read on ffery?

@GIF:

do you prefer playing town or scum?

[pieguyn]

on the read or how sure you are the read will hold up?
or both

[pieguyn]

hey DOMO
first off, I'm really not liking your discredit on SSK, especially when you accused SSK of doing the same thing

Thanks for telling me how to play mafia, this is my first game and tbh I haven't a clue what I'm doing. I figured that *maybe* I could do a quick scan, if only to see what stands out and get a little more familiar with who's in the game etc, and also I'll admit there was a hint of mockery at the idea that you formed your reads in 16 minutes or whatever. But yeah you're right, I shouldn't even bother to look at someone's ISO if I haven't got 2 hours to do a "thorough analysis", let alone dare to post my conclusions. My sincerest apologies.

this post feels like discrediting. it's not a direct insult per se, but the tone here is off. you refuted his point, so why do you need to act all defensive?

But you add a sly little insult, which for me increses the chances of you being scum, because you're not happy with just defending yourself, you want to discredit your attacker too.

I'm also not liking how you're accusing BBQ of fluff posting. like you're fluff posting too so what the hell?

No hurry, I'm off to bed now. I just wanted to say that because I want an excuse to excuse myself without people thinking where the fuck I went.

hi there's so much scum-tone in this post it's not funny. why so defensive?

[pieguyn]

vote: korean bbq

on donner! on blitzin!

why BBQ?

[pieguyn]

And again you're either misreading or misrepping my tone. The post you complain about here is quite obviously a joke relating to my comment earlier about someone feeling the need to explain they're going to bed. It's not even remotely defensive, so it's interesting that you're trying to present it as such.

it's defensive bc of how you're handwaving away in advance any potential suspicion you might gain from making such a statement

looking back on it, why would you make a joke discrediting your own reasoning, which it seems you were seriously using earlier? it doesn't make sense to me as a joke. although it makes sense in the context of you knowing your reason was bad and not wanting people to point out said reason

That post was supposed to be sacrcastic, not discrediting or defensive. But take it as you will.

the sarcasm and mocking can be taken as similar to his so called "sly insult" on you. by using sarcasm you're mocking him just like he was mocking you. if his sly insult on you makes his post discrediting, then by your own logic your post is also discrediting

[pieguyn]

I think you're failing to understand irnoic humour.

And if my reasoning is bad, I'm quite happy to accept it as such, it doesn't matter to me if I realise before it's pointed out. It's pretty natural that my d1 reasoning will be bad. I got no problem with that.

that'd be fine but the problem is how am I supposed to tell you're not scum using bad reasoning as opposed to town using bad reasoning? 0.0

afaik your logic was that Generic would have no reason to make a post explaining his disappearance as town, correct? where'd you change your opinion and what made you change?

the sarcasm and mocking can be taken as similar to his so called "sly insult" on you.

Yeah ok you have a point here. But I feel that the context differs. The sly insult I was complaining about was "suxtosuck", which I'm not taking as an attempt at humour, it just doesn't come across as such. It's a slap down. That might be me misreading the tone, fair enough. My sly insults, I dunno if you need to meta dive me but I'm full of sarcasm and lame attempts at humour.[/quote]
so if the context differs, do I have a point or not? the answer makes sense but I find this wording confusing 0.0

That post was supposed to be sacrcastic, not discrediting or defensive. But take it as you will.

after thinking about it more, I don't like this response - why so obfuscative? by allowing me to "take it as I will", you're not really backing up your stance on your post. this seems like another really easy answer

[pieguyn]

@maracabd: do you two have a read on ffery?

Yes

do you not read?

it probably got lost somewhere keep in mind I had to read the whole thread at once and I was lazy so I missed a lot of shit

mind elaborating on nero town?

[pieguyn]

The quality of my posts all depends on my motivation, regardless of my alignment.

GIF what the hell
this is a direct contradiction. this was the first game in a while you really got into, which by this statement should imply less fluff and more content. but I'm inclined to agree there's a lot of fluff in your slot. what's going on @_@

[pieguyn]

holy crap Cephrir

Ugh. I get opposite conclusions about these exact lines.

mind elaborating on this?

[pieguyn]

I feel like you're overjustifying something you could have just said 'gut' to. THen again someone is sitting there needling you over it.

I try to stray from just pure "gut" reads that don't have anything specific to them. cause I find they're wrong a lot of the time =A=

normally when I get a gut read on a person there's smth specific to back it up. and in that case it was the line about stats. sometimes I get general gut reads on people but I feel way more comfortable with them if there's something specific to it. probably we all can agree that at first glance goodmorning doesn't necessarily look town, but there's specific moments like that that are making me townread her currently. also by providing specific things it gives people the chance to help me confirm or deny said read

[pieguyn]

where's goodmorning .-.

[pieguyn]

that said,
/applause

[pieguyn]

Why so obfucsative? I don't know, you tell me... you're the one who finds it obfuscative. It's not like that's how I intend you to interpret it. I don't care how you interpret my comments, that's out of my hands and not particularly a priority concern for me. That's what I mean when I say "take it as you will". I'm expressing indifference.

I think the way I see it is there should be some sort of intent or goal behind your actions. ex. if you're town, trying to find scum. so when you seem fine with me interpreting it as anything, it gives me the idea there's not any, which seems like it could come from scum far more easily than town. that makes me inclined to keep thinking you're scum who's trying to fly under the radar on D1. it's reassuring to know you had reasons for your actions but I still don't get the big picture. atm I'm thinking it might all fall into place later so I shouldn't worry about it too much for now

fwiw this doesn't feel like a particularly scum driven attack. It feels like you're trying to determine my alignment, rather than testing how vulnerable I am. You're in my town camp, regardless of the conclusion you draw on me.

the problem I'm having is I'm not finding a lot of your answers useful in determining your alignment, thx to above

But it could also be him wanting to go to bed. I felt it was worth mentioning.

so what made you change your mind on this idea to the point of making a joke about it?

[pieguyn]

uh oh

[pieguyn]

is it just me or did my paranoia level just go up by 9000%

[pieguyn]

is it just me or did my paranoia level just go up by 9000%

this game will be much easier if you just read me as town from the get-go

for you or for me?

[pieguyn]

I don't think it even does actually

if you're town that is

[pieguyn]

While it may be easier to townhunt, how do you not get in a cycle of confbias? Especially when someone reaches the point where they can be on your townbloc, then you're looking for why they can still be town and not why are they scum. It's less effective and more prone to bias.

do you ask this every single time someone forms a townbloc or what

like whats the point of this question. do you srsly think forming townblocks is alignment indicative?

As for the basis of my reads, there were no particulars otherwise I would have mentioned them. Most of them were just my gut feelings. Take that as you will.

are you at all confident in any of those reads

I'm ok with this

vote: SSK

[pieguyn]

Varsoon I see you posting elsewhere

you're fucking scum aren't you?

[pieguyn]

I'm pretty confident with my gut? It's usually right, but I like to have substance behind it. So not all the way confident.
But why are you voting me? What makes you think I'm being scum?

you don't seem confident @_@ mostly bc you didn't mention anything until you actually gave said reads list, and your tone in 1042

it looks like you're just trying to coast through D1 by asking random questions. I'm not entirely sure on you being scum, but screw it

now that I think about it tho, I made the same mistake with you on imperishable night

[pieguyn]

actually

What makes you think I'm

being

scum?

nice angle

[pieguyn]

holy crap

you've got a fair point about my blatant wagon hopping. I blame the fact that I suck at larges with so many players I have no idea what the hell to do with my vote so I hop on wagons and hope for the best \o/ I'm trying to figure out a fix but fuck it

smth I noticed

Mentioning that you're townie, even if it is true, is always scummy. And in addition, trying to force a townblock is scummy, but I mean, I guess it could be town? I dunno.

what's the difference between this and saying DOMO is heavily misreading you? it's pretty much the same thing - asserting yourself as town. 0.0

[pieguyn]

I'm not feeling good about this wagon anymore 0.0 last time I played SSK (imperishable night) I thought I saw the same shit with him asking questions that seemed random at first and he was town. and his recent posts are making me feel better

unvote

vote: SC

get in here Varsoon I know you're posting elsewhere

[pieguyn]

ohi

@F-16:

is SC one of the players you're referring to who are doing that? cause it seems like exactly what you said about rofl 0.0 I'm not too sure considering Varsoon hasn't posted at all, compared to rofl who's at least made a few posts to demonstrate this, but it could still fit under the category of slipping through the gaps. especially since it's a hydra, I get the feeling if Varsoon prefers town it could account for his disappearance

[pieguyn]

I don't have that much. the only completed game I have with either of them is imperishable night. both of them were town in that game. Varsoon was p active throughout the whole game, and Mac wasn't as active although he seemed more active that game than he is in here. I'm not entirely sure on the exact numbers but it definitely seemed like he was more active in there from what I remember

I especially remembered Varsoon cause he said after imperishable night we should play more games together, and then I came into this game and I was expecting at least some response of any kind from him. but he still hasn't posted 0.0

[pieguyn]

I take back the statement about Mac's activity. it seems relatively the same, if not more, near the start and after that it seems less but it could be bc he fell behind @_@

[pieguyn]

*start of this game

compared to imperishable night

[pieguyn]

so how do you all like the chance zmuffin inadvertently scumslipped while trying to troll me?

bc I've still been thinking about this

depends if you're town

and how if you think about it long enough it makes no sense at all if zmuffin is really town. if he's town then it'll be easier for me if I townread him regardless of if I'm town or scum. what the hell

[pieguyn]

Varsoon what the hell

what happened to all your excitement about wanting to play more games with me sometime? you see I'm in this game and the only thing you have to say in response is it's really cute to see me voting you again? that seems really sketchy

you've made your point that I might be scum because of lack of activity compared to others, countered it by saying it's actually the same. are we still scum despite your findings?

your activity is the same but Varsoon's still wasn't. while your activity being the same counters my point about your activity, I still think it's kinda telling how Varsoon was posting elsewhere but not in here.

vote:SC

I assume this is GIF right

[pieguyn]

VOTE: DOMO

Gonna do some rereading of 165 to figure out what's driving the gutread here.

care to give me your thoughts on DOMO?

why not hop on the SC wagon?

@Sakura:

did you ever explain why you thought geists felt off

[pieguyn]

idk if im just not reading correctly Nat/ffery (as in reading Nat as ffery or viceversa), but there are certain things that i'd expect Nat OR ffery to have done by now and i haven't seen any of that yet.

Another thing is their tone, it feels different from what i'm used to.

explain plz

if you can't, at least point out which posts pinged you

[pieguyn]

your activity is the same but Varsoon's still wasn't. while your activity being the same counters my point about your activity, I still think it's kinda telling how Varsoon was posting elsewhere but not in here.

it's telling if varsoon does it as scum. do you have proof of this, because he didn't really do this in xenogears?

and why does
"it's telling if varsoon does it as scum"
imply
"it's not telling"
?

especially when you only put one game as a reference and he was solo in that game

[pieguyn]

well it's only telling if you can prove he does that as scum, and not town. which I don't believe is this case for either alignment and he was just really busy lately.

except that doesn't make any sense. it's telling because conveniently not posting in a thread, but posting in others, is scummy as fuck. thus, even if Varsoon hasn't done it before, I still consider it to be telling. and now you're trying to infuse meta into the mix here when by your own words no such meta even exists

and why couldn't you just say he was busy when I first asked you about it? instead you just said "he didn't do it in xenogears"

in other words: your answers seem like deflecting

[pieguyn]

well i could've but you weren't asking why varsoon wasn't posting,

you were accusing his lack of posting as being tell

which I took for you saying it meant varsoon was scum for meta purposes: hence I told you it wasn't telling because it doesn't happen as Varsoon-scum. misunderstanding.

that's not deflecting.

clarify this wording plz

[pieguyn]

well i could've but you weren't asking why varsoon wasn't posting, you were accusing his lack of posting as being tell which I took for you saying it meant varsoon was scum for meta purposes: hence I told you it wasn't telling because it doesn't happen as Varsoon-scum. misunderstanding.

that's not deflecting.

this post is pinging me the wrong way. you seem confident it's really a misunderstanding, as opposed to me being scum trying to score a mislynch

also, I'd think the natural inclination would be to explain why said lack of posting is not scummy. but you didn't because "I never asked why varsoon wasn't posting"? mb it's just gut, but something about this just doesn't feel right. tbh this seems like you're scum who knows I'm on the right track 0.0

[pieguyn]

@Sakura:

can you answer this plz

idk if im just not reading correctly Nat/ffery (as in reading Nat as ffery or viceversa), but there are certain things that i'd expect Nat OR ffery to have done by now and i haven't seen any of that yet.

Another thing is their tone, it feels different from what i'm used to.

explain plz

if you can't, at least point out which posts pinged you

[pieguyn]

that doesn't change the fact that you were previously thinking their tone was off. now it seems like you're using this as an excuse to distance yourself from your previous read on them.

sry but I really want this answered >_< at least can you give me some examples of stuff you were expecting ffery/Nati to say that they didn't say?

[pieguyn]

care to give me your thoughts on DOMO?

why not hop on the SC wagon?

...It's like you didn't even read my post.

I looked at the sequence of posts after when I said "fuck it I'm not reading 16 pages of catchup" and weighed two possible narratives, going with the one I thought was more plausible.

I saw you voted him and I wanna know if we're thinking the same thing about him. 0.0

[pieguyn]

certainly there had to be smth that made you get said gut read on him tho

or maybe I'm putting too much thought into gut reads. looking at your next posts I guess it's probably that instead

Let me guess - is it because I missed RVS?

nope

[pieguyn]

Pie, what is your read on Domo?

somewhere between null and null-scum

wait i never said gut read, just gut feeling o.o

what is this 0.0

this is why I'm worried you're distancing from your earlier read. like this response doesn't even answer anything and it just made me confused @_@ IMO it seems like you're over-justifying the fact that you reversed a read. and when I asked you about it you didn't provide an explanation for any of it, and are trying to deflect with responses like that. and this kind of defense matches what you were doing earlier

@mod: vla until friday

final tomorrow for a class I haven't gone to all semester. need to study @_@

[pieguyn]

I do have momments like that where i find it hard to explain my gut feelings, if i could explain them i wouldnt call em gut feelings to begin with.

get you, I did used to have unexplainable gut feelings all the time so I perceive where you're coming from. I meant, you're differentiating between a "gut read" and a "gut feeling", when it's the same thing. it seems like smth you had to make up to get out of this and reminds me of what happened earlier with the RV 0.0

Pie, I'm excited to play with you again, and it's really heartwarming that your vote is on my slot (again), but I'm town this time. You and me both know we could argue semantics 'till death and it's got no reflection of our alignments (we did this before, remember), so let's avoid that route. Instead, I want you to find scum with me.

^this

that

You're in no position to tell me my jump from whoever to SC is bad because, assuming you're town, you cannot know this. I might not like certain votes, but I don't feel the need to tell people that their vote sucks unless I have a pretty strong town read.

So let me get this straight - you think that swithcing from A to B based on B's comments about A is a scum tell, not town tell?

I also don't think that's a scumtell for me.

Nice scumclaim. Don't think? You should KNOW if you're town.

Yeah I feel really good about this lynch now.

I'm done

vote: DOMO

I don't know what he was trying to say with that but I'm not exactly optimistic about catching muffin scum based on a scum slip.

that's a fuckin lie and you know it
he scumslipped in imperishable night he can scumslip here too
and yes I count what he did in imperishable night as a scumslip :>

[pieguyn]

wow I really didn't pick up on much

I blame me being tired as shit right now and being fucking pissed off because my last final today was an online final and at least 6 of the answers on the website were wrong. someone ask me a question \:D/

[pieguyn]

@GIF:

when you get back here tell me if anything pinged you about Nacho

@Cephrir:

are you still thinking it's SC

[pieguyn]

hi GM how's the reading going

zmuffin did you see the posts directly above the post you just made

[pieguyn]

holy shit you rolled scum didn't you

I was expecting some sort of sarcasm about paranoia or how we're wrong or w/e as soon as you saw those posts. what the crap

[pieguyn]

smth similar to your first few posts. not sure how to describe that

[pieguyn]

if there's one person in this game I can trust to read you correctly, who do you think it probably is?

[pieguyn]

Yes. Have you been reading my posts?

yeah I noticed how you seemed to be defending everyone besides SC and wanted to confirm this

I can understand the desire to pressure me and garner alignment-based tells while I'm under pressure (what I assume the Desperado vote on me was for [if you somehow flip town, I'll be tying a noose for Desp next]).

so you thought that scum-DOMO moved his vote onto scum-Desp to quell a wagon against himself? ok

Nope. I refuse to believe town is this cocky.

part of me thinks this cockiness is smth that is associated with the town varsoon I've seen. however, I haven't seen scum varsoon, so idk if he does this as scum too. can someone answer this plz

I'm with F-16 on this one, BRO.
Wouldn't any worth-a-damn player not mention it at all because they don't want to run the risk of exposing a PR?

-V

this seems too safe. why wait until after F-16 posted to give your thoughts on this? you had opportunities before to weigh in on this, so this seems like flow-going

...and then criticize others for doing the same

that's another good point

If you're town, wouldn't you just brush it off?

well you're not brushing off DOMO's attack on you so

@DOMO:The BBQ and SSK wagons were both not gaining any steam. I entered the game, looking like an easy target, and was immediately jumped on while the SSK wagon withered.
Then... people jumped onto you as my wagon lost steam.
Actually, let me check something...
SSK was KoreanBBQ, Sakura Hana, Cephrir, DOMO, pieguyn
I was pieguyn, Desperado, DOMO, Cephrir, KoreanBBQ, Sakura
DOMO is BROseidon, Desperado, Sakura Hana, Stuffed Crust, Generic, pieguyn

This makes me really suspicious of Pieguyn, Cephrir, DOMO, and Desperado.
Operating under the idea that DOMO and Cephrir are town, though,
Desperado and Pieguy's scum motivation still makes sense.

so you left out the part where my vote on you was placed before you made any posts in this thread at all, explicitly because you hadn't made any posts
ok

I'm getting mixed feelings about DOMO. On one hand, I can see the scum motivation for questionable moves. On the other, DOMO feels really genuine in response.

you have some explaining to do about this plz

At the very least, I'm not confident in my scum-read of DOMO anymore.

Yeah, laugh it up.

and now you're flip flopping on him? this backoff feels fake as fuck

pieguyn - reeks of the town pieguyn I remember, but his vote patterns are awkward.

you've got a fair point about my blatant wagon hopping. I blame the fact that I suck at larges with so many players I have no idea what the hell to do with my vote so I hop on wagons and hope for the best \o/ I'm trying to figure out a fix but fuck it

what about those 2 posts made you think he was scum? because I thought his laidbackness felt quite town but I can't read muffin for all the money in the world.

pretty much I was trying to troll him bc every game we've played he's won and I've lost and if we're opposite alignments again I especially wanna get him this time :>

skimmed the rest
tl;dr: I have no fucking idea. the idea that Varsoon was thinking scum DOMO jumped onto Desp to save himself, when Desp was also apparently scum, is a big ball of what. DOMO came out better for me in that his logic made a lot more sense and held up throughout the exchange, and Varsoon felt like caught scum re: his backoff. however, I'm having a case of paranoia right now and thinking that Cephrir and DOMO might be teammates. I have a really icky feeling on how Cephrir seemed to be focusing on Varsoon the whole time while defending everyone else, and I think it might be scum lining up a mislynch. but fuck it

vote: SC

[pieguyn]

*-skimmed the rest
was planning to and then decided fuck it I should probably fully read it. not sure how that made it through 0.0

[pieguyn]

it's not the tunneling, it's how you were defending all the other possible lynch options, and acting like varsoon was the only one up for lynch. I guess that could be tunneling but I don't consider defending everyone else on top of that to fall under the definition of tunneling

[pieguyn]

@Varsoon:

so you're no longer scumreading me? given you seem to want to work with me, I'd guess that's the case 0.0 can you explain why plz?

Alternatively, there's about 1/5 of the players who aren't very active, so that could skew things completely. There's not really any way to account for that, so I'm ignoring it.

-V

Except that never changed. You're also one out of 19 possible scum, by the way.
If you're talking about the list I made awhile ago, yeah, you were in my scum-tier.
You still are.
Does that mean every time I say "I think X is scum" that I need to include your name there too? If I don't include your name every time I rattle off a scum-read, does that mean I've changed my mind?
Nope.

-V

is it just me or isn't this seem like backpedaling? you provided the first one as an answer to why there weren't more people in your scumlist already. why the flip flop plz?

[pieguyn]

All one of them?

that's a blatant fucking lie. I'm almost positive you defended Casso at some point

And this is scummy because:
______________________

Cephrir, Casso, SC scumteam of the year 2013?

with this in mind:

[also I did acknowledge Casso as an option several times]

why would you suddenly defend someone who you'd be fine with lynching? I don't understand 0.0

@ Maraca, in hindsight I don't like your push on Tammy. You are presenting the goal as pro-town (Tammy looks obvtown after your push). But Tammy looks obvtown in many games even when not accused of being scum. The only thing your push did was discourage a competent town player from posting much which subtly eliminates a threat without having to nightkill her just by breaking her. Tammy is right that her FOS on you would likely be taken less seriously because you upset her and you come out looking good from the exchange for having done this "pro-town" thing of making Tammy look obvtown. Your push looks like it served a scum wincon much more than a town one. I miss Tammy's contributions to the game (she is the only one I have a mutual townread on so probably the only one I can work with at this point) and I am not happy with it. Your read on Rofl makes no sense. How does Rofl look town?

that's a really really good point and I'm inclined to agree

[pieguyn]

what scum motivation do you see in my plays?

as I said before I suck in large games and I feel I tend to get lost easily, so I tend to just hop on wagons and hope for the best. so that might explain why some votes I've made seem awkward, cause they probably are \:D/

can you plz answer my points about you in 1717? I especially want an explanation for this one

so you thought that scum-DOMO moved his vote onto scum-Desp to quell a wagon against himself? ok

[pieguyn]

get you, but IMO it seems odd that you'd be that inquisitive about smth someone you were townreading said. especially when it's implicating someone you'd be ok with lynching. it doesn't seem like the kind of thing someone would usually focus on. it seems weird for me 0.0

looking through your ISO, it wasn't just that post. there's another case of it here

I see what you're saying but personally eh.

this seems like a more blatant defense - from what I can see, you're saying what DOMO pointed out was explicitly not scummy. can you explain plz

[pieguyn]

IF they're both Scum, it'd be the move I would make if scum-Desp was bussing me. You can imagine a hypothetical cross-bus between Cephrir and I (That was you, right?) but not this?

if DOMO was doing what you said then from what I could tell the main scum motivation would be to dodge a wagon. so by redirecting onto Desp, what would it accomplish? it'd just put more pressure on his scumbuddy instead of him. if scum was trying to dodge attention, I don't get what the point is on just taking the suspicion off one of them and promptly putting it on another one, since it doesn't help them dodge anything

it was goodmorning, although I don't think it's too unlikely either

How do you step off of a scum-read you were really confident of one moment, then start to feel wrong about? Sorry that it doesn't hit all the right bells and whistles, I'm not really trying to look good here.

idk but not by throwing dirt at them like in 1601. it feels like smth that could come from caught scum way more easily than town having an epiphany

Already explained this up and down. T-T

can you give me anything specific? I saw your post quoting the posts he made, but I wanna know if there's anything specific within those posts 0.0

I kinda forgot about that. I thought that you stayed on my wagon after I started posting because you thought I was scummy beyond that point, which made jumping off of my wagon a bit weird. I expected more conviction?

if you forgot about my reason for voting you, then why did you have a reason my vote on you was scummy which INCLUDES my original reason for voting you?

that is, you think my vote is scummy bc I stayed on you after you started posting, which implies you knew my vote on you was bc you weren't posting 0.0

also, I went vla before you started posting. then in my massive quote wall catchup post when I came back I jumped off you and on DOMO. this was the first chance I had to jump off your wagon, so I really wasn't even staying on your wagon in the first place = =

[pieguyn]

ohi happy birthday Empire \:D/

[pieguyn]

after looking back, I fked up. turns out my vla was after you started posting. nvm that @_@

it was probably bc I didn't see anything that made me want to move my vote anywhere else then. idr the exact specifics

[pieguyn]

wait what the fuck ffery is actually misreading me? what the fuck is going on I don't even

But, I find it odd that he hasn't buttonholed me so far. IME, he's been in a hurry to sort me.

I got a townread on you early on and I'm p sure of it. there were some things you did that seem like they wouldn't come from scum-you. iirc trying to get people off the DOMO wagon and your push on Nacho. basically I tried to form a set of townreads early on that I wouldn't have to worry about later bc I don't think I could handle scumhunting elsewhere while simultaneously looking in my townreads to make sure they were all correct.

I was wondering for a while about you not townreading me, but I was waiting for some opportunistic scum to hop on the pie-scum train before drawing any attention to it. seems like it worked well enough

Pie guy vote seems pretty gowiththeflow. Why didn't you question me about my muffin read? I would expect you to be especially interested in it, but you didn't even attempt to address it.

I had too much other shit to do. iirc I was focusing on Cephrir and SC at that point, so I figured I'd let you handle muffin for the time being

I love how when it looks like a wagon on me might start up you find some reason for accusing me. seriously, you're accusing me bc of smth I didn't do bc I didn't do it, and ignoring everything I have done besides the SC vote. essentially, you're just taking reasons at your own convenience, rather than trying to determine my alignment. this doesn't seem legitimate

I was talking about this list, though

VOTE: Pie

I want our vote here, the most I think

explain why plz

Actually I'm down with Pie.

Vote: Pie

Nearly 0 scumhunting, and the only case/scumread is on the dude with the largest wagon

Like I don't actually get the feeling they have any interest of solving this game.

what the fuck?
I've been trying to sort most of the players the whole game. I started by getting a bunch of townreads and trying to verify they were all correct, and then I've been pushing on people since then. you completely left out the part where I've been pushing on other people besides SC and how I expressed several scumreads that weren't SC.

also, if you haven't read the thread, then how the fuck would you get the idea I've done "nearly 0 scumhunting"?

There are some things I feel are missing from his play this game compared to the two completed games I have with him. I know he's mentioned that he feels lost in larger games, but I'm not sure why a larger game would contribute to what I feel is missing.

can you elaborate plz

1) They look terribly fake.

bullshit

2) They look like that thing scum do where they focus on one person and ignore everything else and so they can LOOK like they're actually scumhunting and putting effort while they are literally bouncing off thoughts with one person.

and why the fuck do you think this is alignment indicative?

I'm basically running an algorithm here. I'm trying to sort each player one at a time since I know I'll get completely lost if I try to do everyone at once. however, it's noted how you try to pass this off as smth that unconditionally comes from scum motivation, rather than trying to figure out the motivation behind my actions

3) There's a difference between attacking people and scumhunting. Scumhunting that leads you to form a scumread on someone actually requires attempt to convince people to vote someone to create pressure and get a reaction.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS EVEN MEAN?!

tl;dr: your reasons for accusing me are BS. your push on me is opportunistic as fuck

vote: ser arthur

ok so how the fuck have none of you noticed that Casso and Ser Arthur just came up with this wagon on me out of nowhere? that's giving me really bad vibes. it feels like scum lining up a mislynch. I'm not sure about Casso considering Thor hadn't read a lot of the thread, but Ser Arthur is scum and I'm sure of it. sheep me plz o/

[pieguyn]

Pieguyn, you've got to consider that if Casso and S.A.D. were scum that wanted a mislynch, they'd just push me.
Casso's been calling me town for awhile now (I think),
and while Ser Arthur Dayne did actually put a vote on me, it looks like it's much more for pressure than for a push.

it looked like the wagon on you was losing steam, so it doesn't seem too unlikely scum moved on someone else. I'm not sure about Casso considering Thor hadn't read a lot of the thread, but SAD's push on me is complete BS. so I'm inclined to think he's scum

@zmuffin:

explain plz

[pieguyn]

also I wouldn't be surprised if maraca was scum either

she didn't even have a reason for jumping on my wagon, nor has she had any concrete reason for suspecting me the whole game

the ser read? i don't agree with his read on you but i don't think he's scummy for it, and the way he's forming reads looks town

so you think he, as town, made a judgement about the way I was playing without even reading the thread? I can't see how someone could draw a legitimate conclusion based off that

and he blatantly misrep'd me by saying I didn't have a scumread or case on anyone besides SC

[pieguyn]

Nearly 0 scumhunting, and the only case/scumread is on the dude with the largest wagon

also if he was reading my ISO I'd especially expect him to notice I was pushing other people. 0.0

[pieguyn]

You've never played a game with scum-me. How are you determining what would or wouldn't come from scum me?

I'm sure I heard you don't like playing as scum and aren't confident in your scumgame, so I don't think you'd make moves like that as scum.

oh hey AA:MFA ended. it's kind of like that how you were trying to stop the 1v1 between me and Kazekirimaru the whole time

[pieguyn]

Okay so here's the problem. Getting townreads is the easiest thing in the world, especially when

YOU BARELY HAVE SCUMREADS

. It doesn't create conflict, and it creates this sense that you're actually achieving something.

did you miss the part where I confidently placed goodmorning in my townpile despite how everyone had scumreads on her? and then backed up said townread when questioned about it?

and did you further miss how all my townreads at least have smth specific to make me townread them?

the point here is there is no scum motivation in my actions. you're selectively taking things I've done and painting it as scummy without putting it in context.

bolded is yet another blatant misrep

Number 2, what's more troubling is the fact that YOU TRIED TO NARROW DOWN THAT TOWN LIST. You do realize the majority of people, are, in fact town, right? And at one point you're supposed to go "okay, I have this list of like 12 townreads, now lets try to narrow down the others to scum BECAUSE WE HAVE TO LYNCH SOMEONE".

and I repeat, WHAT IS THE SCUM MOTIVATION BEHIND THIS?

I've already explained this. the last thing I need is to be completely blindsided due to having a bunch of scum in my townpile. I already feel overwhelmed trying to sort so many players. forming a really solid set of townreads allows me to, for the most part, leave them out so I have a more manageable set of people left to sort. however, since this opens myself up to large potential for error down the road if one of my townreads is wrong, I wanna be extremely confident all my townreads are right before continuing any further.

the last two sentences are the same thing. you're literally accusing me because I'm not playing the way you think I'm "supposed to", without looking and seeing if it's actually scummy or not.

Number 3, while yes, you did mention "several" scumreads, you did them in time intervals (okay there's a difference between mentioning scumreads and actually pushing them - the former is useless without the latter).

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING
WHAT THE FUCK

My biggest problem with you is that you pick one person, huff and puff after them in what looks like an attempt to show you're pushing suspects, while tunneling everything out.

again, what is the scum motivation behind this? what makes you think it's an "attempt to show I'm pushing suspects", rather than actually pushing suspects?

this is why your reasons are bad. you don't actually look at whether what I'm doing is actually scummy or not. you just jumped on the first thing that seemed like it'd be considered scummy.

also, you didn't actually answer the question of why you were misrepping me ~

I don't know, random epiphanies just fall unto me.

bad

this doesn't explain anything. it makes me feel like you don't actually have an answer for this. tell me how the you'd have an "epiphany" about me doing "0 scumhunting" when you haven't even read the thread? this feels like an excuse to justify your blatantly opportunistic vote on me

Lol wat. It's opportunistic... because there are 2 people voting you? And it's not like I want to create pressure anywhere, no, why would that be beneficial at all?

damn right it's opportunistic. you saw people talking about possible lynch options, saw the wagon forming on me and all the people going "omg pie might be scum", and jumped at the chance to get me mislynched. it could maek sense in the context of a pressure vote, but I'm not inclined to believe you legitimately want pressure on me considering your reasons for voting me suck.

[pieguyn]

As a rule, pie, you should remember--regardless of your thoughts on ffery-scum(she's actually pretty good at it when she tries) that there is part of this head that is known for being positively dastardly as scum.

you both were in AA:MFA as this same hydra and I still felt p confident after ffery directed me towards her stash of townpoints she had after playing peacemaker the whole time. with this kind of playerlist, I think it'd be even less likely, especially after a game like NY167 where, from what I could tell, it became obvious who the whole scumteam was almost immediately based off stuff like that 0.0

[pieguyn]

what do you like about SAD's opening?

can you explain your read on KoreanBBQ plz?

You took my word for it? really?

?

[pieguyn]

no I'm in the not so town pile

still wanna know why but it seems they won't explain it yet ._.

@geists:

sry, forgot. can you also explain the Cephrir read?

[pieguyn]

It's a meta read. If I need to explain it, that will have to wait until tomorrow because my ability to string words together has taken a hit in the last couple hours.

on GIF or nero?

"I'm town as fuck because I never do xyz as scum."

"Ok."

puts player on town list

it's kind of weird. in AA:MFA, you were surprised that I hadn't read you as town by a certain point. and then at that point, I felt I gained a better understanding of your playstyle, of the kinds of things you'd be more likely to do as town than scum, since you were legitimately surprised after some of the stuff you did in that game I wouldn't be townreading you. it's kind of hard to explain, but some of the stuff you've done in this game feels similar to what you did in that game, and so I'm inclined to believe you're town for it. for example, the trying to get people off DOMO wagon seems similar to your confidence in breaking up the me vs Kaze 1v1, and also fits under the model of someone who doesn't like playing scum as much as town. then F-16 came in and said you were probably town due to your push on Nacho and that did a lot to help my confidence in my read

Would you accept an answer from me? Because I can provide one.

I could but ffery answered it already

[pieguyn]

It's a growing sense of unease about his stances, pushes and votes. I don't like some of the targets. That's true of other players' targets as well, but there's just something scummy and (yeah I'm using this word) opportunistic about his pushes.

did you notice Cephrir had me in his town pile and then the suspicion started shifting my way and said he was starting to agree with me-scum?

[pieguyn]

So, it's both, but I'm leaning harder on the GiF meta because of more games played when he was scum.

I think we might be seeing the same thing about him. not sure though bc I don't have very much data, especially of his towngames (I only have one towngame with him and it was offsite and I was scum)

[pieguyn]

roflcopter was probstown.

can you talk to me about this plz

[pieguyn]

Why does Pie have like one of the most boringest reactions in the world.

holy fucking wow
so you dodge all my questions and instead redirect by drawing attention onto my reaction. this makes me think you don't actually have an answer for any of my questions. it's not rhetorical, so get to it :>

The fact that I still can't get a concrete read on him is already infuriating but there's the fact that he seems to hop from one target to the next forgetting EVERYTHING from the last, like restarting fresh every once in a while or something. Add that to a generic OMGUS

this is extremely hypocritical considering you dodged all my questions. if you're town, how am I supposed to get a concrete read on you if you dodge all my questions?

and once again, the same idea. why is OMGUS a scumtell? your jump on me sucked and I called you out on it. again you're trying to write off stuff I do as scummy without examining if it actually is or not. the fact that you're apparently not even trying to answer my questions, engage me, or look at the actual motivation behind my actions, IMO, makes me think you're not trying to legitimately scumhunt me in the first place.

[pieguyn]

I'm just going to quote this and call everything he said scummy with no backing or reasoning provided.
Vote him, I'm a seal!

what the fuck?

this isn't serious is it

[pieguyn]

@mod: I'm voting ser arthur dayne

~Fixed. (Empire)

[pieguyn]

no I mean how you didn't include any reasoning with your post

if you're town this is the most bullshit thing I've ever seen bc you're not giving me anything to work with to help you fix your read on me. if you're scum, on the other hand, how fucking convenient. you can just sit there and not have to take responsibility for anything when I flip town

there's 3 people on me, two of which apparently don't have any reasons at all, and the third one's reasons are complete shit, and even more people are looking like they'll actually buy that shit. damn right I'm going to be defensive. the last thing I want to do is let scum get off an easy mislynch

re: your case, do you mean this

Pie guy vote seems pretty gowiththeflow. Why didn't you question me about my muffin read? I would expect you to be especially interested in it, but you didn't even attempt to address it.

bc that's hilariously weak and I already responded to it. you're taking things I've done without putting them in context. your point about "not questioning my muffin read" is incorrect because there's about 9238473 actions people could take that they don't take for whatever reason. however, you specifically picked this one bc it was convenient for your "case" on me. it's also based off the assumption that I'd be "especially interested" when I'm lazy as fuck and feel overwhelmed enough already trying to sort this many people.

not to mention this whole statement is hypocritical. tell me what's not "gowiththeflow" about this:

pieguyn is actually worrying me some.

Unvote: Korean BBQ
Vote: pieguy

Looking at the Vote Count I see 9 chiefs, 6 Indians, and 5 kids who haven't decided if they want to play yet.

I'm sure these pages are just chock full of awesome pro-town info though.

says the guy who admitted he hadn't even read a lot of the thread

your logic is contradictory as fuck

[pieguyn]

on second thought, fuck this

vote: casso

your push on me is even worse than ser's

@Ser:

I still need an explanation for my points on you plz

[pieguyn]

so in other words you just ignored all my points

It's also totally different than how I voted you, since, y'know, just for starters, he was actually agreeing with me, not the other way around.
Also, I forgot that I unvoted Desp, ah well, mystery solved.

this is why you're scum. you just handwave my point away with a joke. anyone see the town motivation in this? bc I don't. nice try

I'm still perfectly fine with this vote.

and then you repeat that "you're perfectly fine with this vote". acting like you did provide an explanation for my points, when in reality you didn't answer anything at all

there is so much scum tone in this post it's not funny

[pieguyn]

I thought you were doing this and now I know

Casso is trying to strongarm a lynch on me case in point

sry but you picked the wrong townie. I'm suicidal and a bit of a masochist and I like a challenge ~

Actually I addressed some and specifically ignored others as not even being worth discussing.

nope. you're handwaving everything I say in effort to flood the thread and hope people don't actually specifically read our exchange.

Most of what you're debating is what town motivation I have to, functionally 'not care' and I submit that it's laughable the rest of you are choosing to all pretend that you do care and are actually getting anything new out of the day at this point.

first off, this is a misrep. I'm accusing you of pushing a lynch on me with shit logic and, when I refute said logic, you ignore my points and try to pass it off like you still have a case on me. it's not entirely your not caring, it's your deception. if you were just another apathetic as fuck townie, then that's fine. but you're putting a bunch of fluff in your posts, ignoring my rebuttals to your "case", and then acting like you destroyed my points. you are trying to suffocate me by constantly ignoring what I say and repeating the idea that I'm scum.

second, if you actually believed this, then you should, to some extent, get my reason for "not asking you about your zmuffin read". but you try to pass it off as scummy. why? bc it's convenient for your "case" on me. there are several instances of choices players can make and actions they can choose to do or not do, so why all of a sudden is this specific one scummy? I don't see you asking anyone at all about their pie townreads. by your own logic, isn't this scummy too? what's the difference?

third, this is another case of you trying to strongarm me. you're subtly implying that there's nothing left to do today in an effort to stop my interactions with you and get people to pack up and follow your "case" on me, before smth incriminating you might come up.

We need a flip. We needed a flip a week and forty pages ago. If that makes me scum in your mind for saying, then so be it.

misrep, I never said you were scum for trying to get a flip ASAP.

I know which of us will win a 1v1.

resorting to scare tactics now, are you? this is just proof of how you're trying to strongarm me. you're trying to discredit me by implying you have more skill and evidence than me so that people are more likely to follow you on top of me.

well, too bad, I'm actually fighting back. probably you could have succeeded in pulling off a mislynch, but you slipped up and now I've amassed a way better case against you. you're gonna die :>

Hey, look, Deadline is in less than five days.
How many L-1 wagons have we managed?

Okay then.

and again here you are shutting me out. now that I'm making points, you're trying to flood the thread with random "we need a lynch" posts to cover it up. this is not going to cut it

[pieguyn]

tl;dr: Casso is constantly
1. selectively taking things I've done, placing them out of context, and painting them as scummy,
2. including things he's done himself,
3. misrepping and discrediting me,
4. handwaving all my points with jokes and constantly saying "it's not worth responding to" without explaining anything,
5. flooding the thread with "lynch pie" posts in an effort to suffocate me, and
6. subtly trying to get people to end the day now that I'm interacting with him,
in an effort to strongarm a lynch on me.

that plus the amount of nothing he's done all game makes me p sure of a scumflip here

readslist incoming

[pieguyn]

town
1. Tammy
2. geists (fferyllt + Natirasha)
5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon
6. Generic
10. pieguyn SonOfZeus
11. BROseidon
14. goodmorning

null-town
4. MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal) <- was under town but F-16 makes a good point. I'd also like to know if Mara's reason for suspecting me is just paranoia or what
13. KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) <- meta read. not 100% sure due to lack of data
18. DOMO <- his logic held up in his interactions with SC and he looks town. I have a case of paranoia here bc I get the feeling a lot of the pressure on him wasn't useful in determining his alignment, but oh well

null
7. roflcopter <- not enough data
8. MafiaSSK roflwaffles <- he's done a lot but idk if any of it is alignment indicative. need more data here
9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon) <- his reaction to the pressure on him seemed town, but him being scum would make sense in the case of Casso strongarm lynch.
12. Brian Skies <- he's being a giant lurkfuck when I'm not used to seeing from him.
16. Ser Arthur Dayne pitoli <- I'm willing to believe for now SAD is just a misguided townie, cause I'm finding it hard to believe there'd be 3 scum pushing a wagon on me like this, and I find Casso to be 9000% more likely to be scum. and he's demonstrated there's at least some logic in his points. I still disagree and want an explanation, but meh
17. zMuffinMan talah <- probably could be higher but paranoia
20. Desperado <- don't have an idea. the trying out a new approach seems town but idk if that's actually alignment indicative.

scum
3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) <- see above
15. Sakura Hana <- I get the feeling she was being really defensive in our 1v1s earlier and that's not what I'd expect from her. she seemed quick to jump to conclusions and some of her points were kind of icky
19. Cephrir <- the associative with Casso I mentioned earlier. also the way he's subtly pushing along my wagon is giving me weird vibes

I'm not sure who the last scum could be. probably Brian bc his lurking is off from what I know of him, and then I have no fkin idea 0.0

[pieguyn]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=34161 Sakura was scum and we 1v1'ed. she was quick to write it off as a misunderstanding

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=31371 Sakura was town. we kept 1v1'ing and even after I incorrectly deduced she was scum she was still fighting
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/160098 offsite. Sakura was town and idr exactly what happened in this game 0.0

my scumgames
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32348 although I played pretty bad in this one
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=32209
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/157876 offsite

my Generic read originally came from 445 and nothing he's done after then made me question my read on him. I feel he's making really good points and asking good questions. p much all of 445 I felt was right on the money to the point where I have difficulty believing it could come from a scum pov, and there were more posts similar to that later on

[pieguyn]

are you still having doubts about Casso?

if answering this breaks the truce you had with him feel free to ignore

[pieguyn]

woops forgot this game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=33202
Sakura was town, we 1v1'ed near hte start and she kept fighting me and eventually defeated my points against her

my push on her was to gauge how she reacted to a 1v1 on her, plus I found her reasonless RV weird. originally I backed off bc her logic held up and I saw parallels to the above game. but looking back I'm having doubts bc I remembered she seemed kind of defensive

[pieguyn]

if scum is pushing your wagon, why are you looking at the ones who joined it and not the one who started it?

wat
Casso was the first vote on the wagon. at first I thought SAD looked more opportunistic and then I realized it was more likely Casso. I'm trying to get a look at everyone on the wagon and SAD was up first.

if you're referring to geists, I have a townread on them and they already said they won't explain their reasons for suspecting me yet

I'd like to know your reason for suspecting me too. I was assuming it was paranoia from fast and furious considering you did the same thing in pick & ban. is that the reason or is it smth else?

[pieguyn]

Didn't like Pie's initial push against Sakura. Don't know where he was going with that and Sakura came out looking town to me based on her defense. I also don't like how he keeps asking people which of his reads they think are wrong (especially the null-reads, it looks like a feigned attempt at scumhunting), but it could just be him trying something new.

I've explained this somewhere. I have trouble sorting all these people at once in large games, so my strategy for this game was to form a really solid set of townreads that I wouldn't have to second guess later for the most part. however in order to make sure I won't be blindsided later I have to be relatively convinced they're all correct before continuing, hence questioning which ones might be wrong

the questioning null reads in response to GIF was bc he disagreed with all my scumreads and I wanted to know if he thought my next most likely scumreads were better

[pieguyn]

yeah but why don't you like the pie read 0.0

[pieguyn]

yeah, I can be a paranoid fucktard but considering that I'm town-reading others that I am normally paranoid about, there is obviously something else to the vote.

well yeah that's why I figured there was probably smth else to it

I'm not too worried about you cause I'm relatively sure of my townread on you, but still wanna know the reason

pedit: I don't agree with him town-reading you

obviously, considering you're voting me

I'm super certain in Casso town

explain plz

[pieguyn]

why?

so I can work with you to fix your read on me

[pieguyn]

I know Muffin p much squeaked by you in Touhou bc of a completely unexpected extra scumkill and I'm expecting you to be ready to get him back, so I'm watching your interactions with him;

ftfy <3

I blame a combination of laziness and being overwhelmed with so many people. plus (I assume it was Thor) Thor had said his entrance looked slightly town and I was a bit confused about who was reading who as what

I'll note that I didn't even come close to voting you, was just poking at you a bit: why did you feel that I wasn't trying to sort you?

huh I thought that was Thor. mostly because of "Pie guy", I've never seen you say my name like that @_@

bc that post came

after Thor (?) voted me

and I thought the post was by Thor. however, it makes a bit more sense if it was Thor who voted me and that post was from you. it seems like it could be another case of hydra dissonance, but I'm not letting you off the hook for that. it seems way too easy for scum to play that card and I still think Thor is scum

You'll find this is Thor's usual game and it is a large part of the reason of why he is more likely to succeed as scum.

so Thor always misreps, discredits, and uses scare tactics to get people lynched? like I know some people are more aggressive but what he did makes sense from a scum motivation and idk what town motivation he could have behind all that.

also, the "aggression" wasn't all there was to it - there were some subtleties that made me think he was trying to cover up his true intent. the discrediting with the 1v1 and his implication that there was nothing left to do today sold this point for me. I'd almost like to say the 1v1 was a scumslip bc it implies we're opposite alignments but that's kinda meh

[pieguyn]

Casso considering the way Nacho/Thor have been interacting and pushing people

go back read my case on Thor try again

especially how subtle he was about some of it, indicating he's trying to cover up his true intent. even if Thor is an aggressive player, I don't see the town motivation for half the shit he did 0.0

@geists:

explain Casso town plz. also, do you think a Casso + Ceph team makes sense in the context of Ceph's interactions with SC way back when? it looked like he was defending Casso and then when I asked he claimed he wasn't. then when I showed examples of him defending Casso he started giving weird responses and then .......wait

hold on a second

[pieguyn]

WARNING: QUOTEWALL

I highly suggest you read it tho cause either it's p telling or I'm insane

Spoiler:

it's not the tunneling, it's how you were defending all the other possible lynch options, and acting like varsoon was the only one up for lynch. I guess that could be tunneling but I don't consider defending everyone else on top of that to fall under the definition of tunneling

it's not the tunneling, it's how you were defending all the other possible lynch options, and acting like varsoon was the only one up for lynch. I guess that could be tunneling but I don't consider defending everyone else on top of that to fall under the definition of tunneling

All one of them?

here I start poking at Cephrir. it seems like he was defending everyone but SC, and also seems like he's defending Thor while scumreading him

@ Maraca, in hindsight I don't like your push on Tammy. You are presenting the goal as pro-town (Tammy looks obvtown after your push). But Tammy looks obvtown in many games even when not accused of being scum. The only thing your push did was discourage a competent town player from posting much which subtly eliminates a threat without having to nightkill her just by breaking her. Tammy is right that her FOS on you would likely be taken less seriously because you upset her and you come out looking good from the exchange for having done this "pro-town" thing of making Tammy look obvtown. Your push looks like it served a scum wincon much more than a town one. I miss Tammy's contributions to the game (she is the only one I have a mutual townread on so probably the only one I can work with at this point) and I am not happy with it. Your read on Rofl makes no sense. How does Rofl look town?

I seriously doubt their intentions were this nefarious even if they're scum.

All one of them?

that's a blatant fucking lie. I'm almost positive you defended Casso at some point

And this is scummy because:
______________________

Cephrir, Casso, SC scumteam of the year 2013?

with this in mind:

[also I did acknowledge Casso as an option several times]

why would you suddenly defend someone who you'd be fine with lynching? I don't understand 0.0

Because I didn't suddenly defend them. That post was an "I don't get what your point is" not an "I disagree". It was then suitably explained.

here he denies defending Casso

get you, but IMO it seems odd that you'd be that inquisitive about smth someone you were townreading said. especially when it's implicating someone you'd be ok with lynching. it doesn't seem like the kind of thing someone would usually focus on. it seems weird for me 0.0

looking through your ISO, it wasn't just that post. there's another case of it here

I see what you're saying but personally eh.

this seems like a more blatant defense - from what I can see, you're saying what DOMO pointed out was explicitly not scummy. can you explain plz

I'm not sure exactly how to put this, but it seems like you think a townie's thoughts have to all be consistent and they would never undercut their own established viewpoint in the slightest, because they want their points to carry more weight? So like, if I thought a suspect of mine did something townie for instance, I'm supposed to not point it out for fear of damaging my own case? And that isn't how I work.

Also, I wouldn't say the baove post counts as defensive, it's just "that point isn't something I want to vote on" but your mileage may vary

here I show a way more blatant example of Cephrir defending Casso and push harder. he strawmans my statement into the first statement, rather than addressing it directly, when it wouldn't be that hard to just say "that's not how I roll"

Went back to look at 66+67 and the Desp vote.
That looks really skeevy and Desp fails to address Stuffed's pretty excellent counter of Desp's "case"

Also looked at Pie's vote, it's more boring to me, kind of a mush mouth hop on at worst and at best.

Let's lynch one of them, I don't recall Nacho declaring either of their meta's sacrosanct yet.

THEN TWO POSTS LATER CASSO COMES IN AND ACCUSES ME

@Ceph - I find you scummy and your wagon on Stuffed bad. Please justify him being scum. Go, go, go!

when he was apparently scumreading Cephrir the whole time

I feel like that was a cruel game to make me iso someone for no purpose.

What's your read on Desp and the Stuffed Crust wagon right now?
Also a read on Ceph.

Stuff Crust is town unless GiF tells me otherwise.

Desp I am leaning town on for sort of contra-meta reasons.

Ceph I'm doing a reset on, but I think I'll still settle on town.

pieguyn is actually worrying me some.

I'm working on a reads list. After Nati and I have a chance to go through it in detail, one of us will post it.

pieguyn is actually worrying me some.

Unvote: Korean BBQ
Vote: pieguy

THEN STARTS THE WAGON ON ME, DESPITE THE FACT THAT I'M POKING AT HIS SCUMREAD. AND OH LOOK HIS VOTE WASN'T EVEN ON CEPHRIR

You didn't ask, but my case is 'eh, why not?'

with the reason "eh, why not?"? WTF

I think I am beginning to agree with this, his questioning of me felt kind of robotic

AND THEN CEPHRIR COMES IN AND POSTURES FOR A JUMP ON MY WAGON

so yeah - as soon as I start poking around and making Cephrir all antsy in comes Thor with the wagon on me, and sure enough Cephrir is all of a sudden magically fine with jumping on there with a sketchy reason, DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE HAD ME IN HIS TOWNPILE BEFORE

discuss?

[pieguyn]

Oh also thank you for towning pie.

UNVOTE:

wanna lynch Casso with us? or Cephrir?

[pieguyn]

Pie, I'll wait for Cephrir to answer to that. I specifically want to know why the switch from Pie-town to hopping onto the wagon.

here's the only answer he ever gave iirc

I think I am beginning to agree with this, his questioning of me felt kind of robotic

also note how delayed it was. my questioning of him ended at 1779. in the time in between we had a vote on Casso, a vote on SC, then an unvote. and note how in that exact post he was quoting maraca's vote on me, that is, the second vote on my wagon. he's posturing to join my wagon now that it's accelerating

note how he never actually joined my wagon. he's subtly pushing it along bc it'd look bad if they all piled on me immediately

[pieguyn]

I'm less sure now that nachoffery sorting dance happened of my scumread there. I could probably sheep you onto cephrir. Mara's kinda AWOL so what the hey.

you'd sheep me onto Cephrir, but not Casso, when I think they're both scum? so you think there's a good chance of Cephrir scum and Casso town based on what I said?

bc I'm thinking either they're both scum or I suck and I'm way off entirely. I guess the timing of Casso's push on me might have just been unfortunate, but that seems like almost too much of a coincidence to be true 0.0

[pieguyn]

Cabd can you answer this plz

I'm less sure now that nachoffery sorting dance happened of my scumread there. I could probably sheep you onto cephrir. Mara's kinda AWOL so what the hey.

you'd sheep me onto Cephrir, but not Casso, when I think they're both scum? so you think there's a good chance of Cephrir scum and Casso town based on what I said?

bc I'm thinking either they're both scum or I suck and I'm way off entirely. I guess the timing of Casso's push on me might have just been unfortunate, but that seems like almost too much of a coincidence to be true 0.0

[pieguyn]

why the hell are we wagoning zmuffin

I'm aware Casso and Ceph are both VLA but we need to lynch scum and considering they're VLA until after deadline we can't let that stop us. there's no reason we should let scum live another day just bc "omg VLA"

That's a false pretense. The nachoffery dance sort makes it unlikely BOTH are scum; and I don't see ffery scumreading-then-townreading nacho out the gate. Therefore for now I'm treating them both as town on a tentative basis.

wait you mean you're treating both nacho and ffery as town right

[pieguyn]

can you remind me why muffin is scum

[pieguyn]

He has a town read on me.

+

I think Mara is on my team.

is this about zmuffin or arthur

if arthur, can you tell me why zmuffin scum plz
if zmuffin, can you explain why this makes him scum plz

can anyone else tell me why zmuffin scum

[pieguyn]

nice, completely ignoring my point about the subtleties he threw in on top of his aggression when mentioning "that's thor in a nutshell"

is it any coincidence that that's a fairly decisive point in my case? probably not :>

I don't get why this is a big deal. Didn't like your vote on Stuffed Crust, don't care who you're pushing as scum other than Stuffed Crust if your vote sucks.

what does this have to do with anything?

my point is, I was poking around and the two of you immediately swung a wagon on me to get me off you. that's the conclusion I've made based off the timing of your votes/pushes, and your interactions between each other

Our vote wasn't on Cephrir. It was on someone else he found scummy.
Why should you pushing on a scumread make you town as hell somehow?

naturally it should ping you in some way if I'm poking on one of your scumreads. were you thinking both me and Cephrir were scum?

anyway, my point is the voting interactions between you two are awkward as fuck

Went back to look at 66+67 and the Desp vote.
That looks really skeevy and Desp fails to address Stuffed's pretty excellent counter of Desp's "case"

Also looked at Pie's vote, it's more boring to me, kind of a mush mouth hop on at worst and at best.

Let's lynch one of them, I don't recall Nacho declaring either of their meta's sacrosanct yet.

@Ceph - I find you scummy and your wagon on Stuffed bad. Please justify him being scum. Go, go, go!

here Ceph does the same shit you accuse me of doing (wagoning on SC). but then you vote me and never mention Cephrir again? you were going back and forth with him for a while but rather than placing your vote on him, who you were more vocally scumreading and putting pressure on, you wait for the pressure to shift my way and swing a wagon on me. you demonstrated no intent to go forward with a SC wagon, however, instead preferring me or Desp, despite the fact you were pushing on him for a while up to here and he did the exact same thing I did. naturally you should be OK with wagoning Ceph. and you haven't even mentioned Ceph's jump on SC since then? not to mention you hadn't placed a vote on him throughout the whole game, despite apparently scumreading him for a while?

and turning around and looking at Cephrir:

I have been justifying it.

I'm not as convinced as I started out (shhhh its a secret) but still think it's the best wagon by a longshot. If you'd prefer I move to you though perhaps that could be arranged (not really).

It disturbs me that you're scumreading me here after correctly scumreading me in my other two games with you ever (I think my play is pretty different here). I guess you just think I'm scum all the time and I've been giving you too much credit!

Thor managed to read someone correctly???

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Casso

Thanks for making this easy for me

Ceph, I'm thinking he's surprised that Thor managed to read anyone correctly

Oh, I get it now. >.<

VOTE: SC

Actually I need to reassess things

UNVOTE:

I'll deal with this later.

he votes you, then immediately jumps off and votes SC again and then unvotes. his reason for voting you was kind of odd. it seemed really icky and like it could very easily be distancing. and then all of a sudden he postures to jump onto my wagon and forgets all about SC?

Did you think this was a serious case? It wasn't a serious case.

he seemed p serious about getting me lynched. kind of odd if his "case" wasn't serious in the first place. the fact that he responded with jokes when I asked him about it backs this idea up

[pieguyn]

Our vote wasn't on Cephrir.

It was on someone else he found scummy.

your vote was on someone else Cephrir found scummy?

...ok then

[pieguyn]

You were attacking Cephrir. Then you got on the Stuffed Crust wagon.

misrep. I got on SC for the most part before I was attacking Cephrir. to be specific, I got on SC at pretty much the same time my attack on Cephrir started.

You were attacking Cephrir. Then you got on the Stuffed Crust wagon. We attacked you because we didn't like how you got on the Stuffed Crust wagon. You said "why attack me if I was attacking one of your scum suspects?". Answer? It doesn't matter who your suspects are when 1) Cephrir is a Thor-suspect who is vetted to be town by me. 2) Thor clearly didn't have any very strong scumspects at the time (notice a bunch of complaints about no good wagon, offers to move vote easily...), so a weak suspect attacking a weak suspect isn't really something that's particularly important to us.

Thor sees two votes that he doesn't like: one by Cephrir, who I have called town. One by you, who I hadn't called town.
Thor's goal is to get a wagon started. Thor sees possible support for your wagon. Thor moves forward with the wagon.
So yes, you're right that we moved forward on you when support came around for you. Why did we choose you over Cephrir? Because I had a townread on Cephrir. Why did we choose you over Desp? Because there was more support on you than there was on Desp.

here's the problem. given all the other evidence (timing, associatives between you two, you two individually etc.) I have reason to believe that you all jumped on me to get me off you. and this isn't exactly a hard card for scum to pull, and could easily be a coverup. I wouldn't put it past you to fake this kind of trajectory/thought process/w.e as scum. so this answer isn't at all reassuring

especially when your whole reason for pushing on me was based solely off the SC wagon. certainly you have to have some better reads you can push towards a lynch on? I find it doubtful of all the people in this game the best option up for lynch is just bc of a jump on a wagon 0.0 mb this is BoP or whatever but meh

sure we have the idea that you and Thor are different people, but idk if that even matters and I prefer not to pay much attention to "hydra dissonance" bc I have no fucking idea what's even alignment indicative wrt that

also, if Thor's goal was just to get a wagon started and he had no strong scumspects, then why the hell was he so dead set on getting me lynched? it doesn't make sense to me. why would he try to strongarm a lynch on someone he's not even sure of when he could just leave it up to you to pick a more reliable target and lynch them?

Why do you think muffin might be town?

I don't necessarily think he's town so much as I don't see any specific reason why he's scum, and I have other people I think are more likely to be scum. his extreme laid-backness reads slight town for me but it's a super light towntell and I'm not putting any faith in it at all, especially from zmuffin. essentially, there's people who have done smth to make me think they're scum and then there's zmuffin who hasn't really done much at all. if we focus on other people then zmuffin might do more and then we could sort him later

I think you're asking the wrong question. IMO it should be "why is zmuffin scum" as opposed to "why might zmuffin be town" 0.0

[pieguyn]

@geists:

why the unvote on Cephrir?

also, can you explain Casso town plz

I did notice that you're going to great depths to help us read Sakura, which is kinda townie feeling I guess... all those links and stuff with Sakura's past games. that's pretty tight!

ftr it was bc F-16 asked me to, but thx \:D/

[pieguyn]

Re: misrep, I don't think my bungling of events changes things any.

yes it does. your attack on me couldn't have been a chainsaw if my attack on Cephrir came after your attack on me

Re: us attacking you in order to chainsaw cephrir, there are a multitude of ways Thor and I could handle you attacking Cephrir as scum. Attacking you is probably the dumbest way to handle it. We didn't attack you solely off vote, which was explained. Why do we need a better push than you? We had a good feeling about the push, and so we made it. Are there better targets in thread? Probably, but we will get there eventually.

why is attacking me the dumbest way to handle it? also, what are better ways to handle it?

I disagree it's necessarily dumb. first off, you know from imperishable night I get swayed off track easily. thus, attacking me seems like it could easily knock me off course with Cephrir, especially when I've never even had a 1v1 with you (or even played with Thor), or had to experience an attack from either of you, before. it's the shock factor that does it and such a thing can thus be a quick and easy maneuver which can have surprising results ("omg Thor's attacking me wjhlakjhg I'm gonna get fucked" and then I forget all about Cephrir)

that, plus your reason for pushing on me doesn't seem like it'd be hard to make up either. so this scenario seems very plausible IMO

second, I get the impression if you think my idea of what you did is dumb you'd have no problem with saying it immediately. so why do you air this now after I've been pushing on you for a while? it makes me think you're BS'ing

If you want to ignore the fact we are two separate people, you can't ignore the fact that we occasionally do things that wouldn't be the first choice of either head.

this isn't alignment indicative. you can do things that wouldn't be the first choice of either head as both town and scum. why do you bring this up?

also, while we're going on and on about "Thor's usual playstyle", tell me if Thor chainsaws plz?

[pieguyn]

@Desp:

can you explain maraca scum? mara is weirding me out a bit but she did that last time I played her so I can't tell shit > <

[pieguyn]

The frustration over the votes he was getting didn't seem like scum-Ceph to me at all. In someone else, maybe that would be scummy.

so you think he can't fake it as scum?

Mostly based on Brian's proxy-vote comment and the complete lack of Sakura with the exception of one post as I did my catch-up.

you know Sakura's having RL problems right

I still think she's scum based off my 1v1 w/her but this is incorrect 0.0

@generic:

do you think after wingate Mara would necessarily use the same strategy as scum? especially given you two seem familiar with each other, I don't see why she can't switch it up here

[pieguyn]

I'm also a lil' worried about Pie 'cause he seems like he's on every major wagon.

you've got a fair point about my blatant wagon hopping. I blame the fact that I suck at larges with so many players I have no idea what the hell to do with my vote so I hop on wagons and hope for the best \o/ I'm trying to figure out a fix but fuck it

[pieguyn]

Because holy fucking shit not only are they fake as shit, but they have 340 posts. On day one. They are drowning out the game in noise.

when you get a chance can you elaborate on what seems fake plz

I remember seeing some things that seemed off but I was too lazy/busy doing other shit to poke around there @_@

[pieguyn]

Also, if maraca is somehow town, ^ this is probs scum.

care to explain why?

ftr I've been wondering about mara for a while now

So really the only difference is...more players.

yeah. since there's more players I feel overwhelmed trying to sort everyone =A= so often I have no idea what to do and I get lost easily. hence wagon hopping

[pieguyn]

I'll hop onto maraca if need be

still prefer casso. not sure about SC 0.0 SC's wagon is giving me bad vibes, but I'm willing to trust GIF's read if need be (plus it'd make sense if they chose to bus considering GIF is known for reading Varsoon correctly all the time). there's too many small wagons and IMO some people need to start merging to get some better wagons going

[pieguyn]

I've been wondering about mara for a while now. there's some things she's said that seem off, but I didn't investigate further. now that more people are saying she's scum I'm way more interested. I can elaborate if you want

Also the comment about SC is atrocious. You are happy on the casso wagon, don't like the SC wagon yet are willing to trust GIF over it, which could be GIF bussing them?!?

o I meant scum bussing SC, not GIF. sry for confusion

Where do I start with THAT!? You trust scum on a wagon you have bad vibes for, you prefer the casso wagon but are ready to move onto two other wagons and you don't want indecision anymore but are open to a new push on mcmaraca....

essentially I'm fine with all 3 of them, yeah. we need some better wagons and IMO projecting that I'm happy with all 3 could make people more inclined to hop off their respective wagons to form a better wagon

[pieguyn]

*better as in larger
wow I shouldn't post when I'm tired as fuck =.=

[pieguyn]

oh btw can you answer my question plz

@generic:

do you think after wingate Mara would necessarily use the same strategy as scum? especially given you two seem familiar with each other, I don't see why she can't switch it up here

[pieguyn]

I don't know what a scumpie looks like, do you?

yeah you do

have you like erased that game from your memory? LOL

[pieguyn]

wait was that Nero or GIF

[pieguyn]

here's a few of the things I remember noticing about her. there's probably more this is just what I saw from a cursory glance at her ISO that I remembered seeing

Desp can't read me for shit, either.

meanwhile, every game I play against him (and with him) I get better and better at reading him.

she's disrediting desp who supposedly has experience with her. I'm almost positive she did smth similar to this in NY167 but not sure

Why is he scum?

like, what of his posts have scum-motivation?

because, we both have a decent town read on them, as well

this seems fake. she basically turns the burden of proof over without even explaining her reasoning behind SC town. I could try to use bauss's term "proof or GTFO" but that's prob not the exact same thing as this

You don't wanna pick a fight with me, it's pretty damn obvious in the way that you scum read us, but don't call my actions scummy, rather anti-town and using that as an avenue to try and push us to get lynched.

we aren't scum, we are "'helping scum.

the fact that you phrase it as such proves that you don't really have a scum-read on us, but you keep pushing it as such

wtf is this

and you don't know my gambits for shit.

discrediting again

Not interested considering they aren't likely to get lynched, so it'll be a waste of my time.

this mostly just pissed me off but it makes so much sense in light of what Tammy brought up. she thinks she's in control of the game and thinks she can just force the idea that casso won't be lynched

wow holy crap there's even more than I remembered. I'm very ok with this now

[pieguyn]

iirc nero was the one who moved the vote off SC

[pieguyn]

[quote="In post 2603, Generic"]Strange how your tiredness isn't affecting your pushes, only your defenses.[/quote
why do you think it's not affecting my pushes? 0.0

like I'm not even pushing anyone at all right now

[pieguyn]

Strange how your tiredness isn't affecting your pushes, only your defenses.

why do you think it's not affecting my pushes? 0.0

like I'm not even pushing anyone at all right now

[pieguyn]

that's me justifying my read. there's no pushing there

i'm glad you think I'm clear
I can link to the kind of shit I can post sometimes when I'm this tired but it's ongoing T_T but if everythign besides unclear re: GIF and ambiguous wording is clear I guess it means I'm getting better \:D/

[pieguyn]

casso's vote on me was what started the whole thing against casso

but the moment they to v/la they aren't on your radar at all.

he's still on my radar. did you miss that post I made that was like "why should we let VLA stop us from lynching someone"? I'm p sure there was also a post I made asking geists about ceph later on. I still have ceph as a scumread but he's not making any posts and it seems absolutely no one wants to touch him bc "omg VLA"

Stuffed crust is a consistent read of yours but if you are scum with cephrir trying to setup casso or if you are scum with casso bussing each other then you are setting up town mislynches on two people I happen to be town reading...

weren't you scumreading casso

[pieguyn]

wat
maraca has 3 votes on her same as SC and zmuffin 0.0 and cephrir doesn't even have any votes on him. even though I'd be fine with lynching ceph, at this point yet another wagon is the opposite of what we need. the questioning VLA was right after he went VLA iirc and it's been a while since then and there's been pretty much no support for a lynch on him since

can you clarify what you mean by OMGUS plz? I don't see where you mentioned OMGUS. but I tend to be way more critical of pushes against myself and I'm not sure I would have noticed anything if they did this on someone else, so there's probably traces of OMGUS in there

[pieguyn]

it feels like pie is sort of wilting under the pressure you put on him/her, not really the reaction I look for from him/her as town

meh. I didn't feel like arguing with Generic. it was really late and I was tired as fuck. especially considering I'm relatively sure of him town anyway, so there's not much of a point

He's not doing some stuff that I am used to seeing him do when he's town, particularly cross-checking his reads with other players and frequently asking people what they think about other players' posts.

ffery what the fuck you better not be scum

I've done the first one several times. look through my ISO and you'll see me questioning people about Casso/mara/zmuffin/etc. and certainly you remember after I entered the game how I tried to check all my townreads with you 0.0

you're right that I usually like to ask people about others' posts but I'm trying to keep track of so much stuff in this game bc there's more people, so I'm mostly going it solo here

[pieguyn]

I bluffed the read to see which person jumped and to see Varsoon yelling his brain out. But sadly, I got neither. I do think f16 is town with the way he showed his interest, but I already had him as town

if Varsoon did yell his brain out what conclusion would you have made?

looking back his reaction was to try to discredit you ("something scum-GIF can exploit easily" and then he acted like you were scum for not interacting with him). IMO it seems like a scum reaction bc it makes a lot of sense in the context of him knowing your "read" was correct. it seems like it could easily come from the scum motivation of trying to stop people from listening to your "read"

[pieguyn]

@ffery:

I still think you're town, but to be blunt I'm wondering what the hell is up with you this game. you're still misreading me and this is the first time that's happened. not only that but practically everything you're scumreading me for is bc of my failure in large games. you're scumreading me bc I'm not asking "as many" questions, or cross-referencing "as many" reads. the fact that you attribute these differences to me being scum, rather than me being bad at larges, and your failure to see the town motivation in my actions is starting to worry me

especially when (I think it was you) you townread BRO for being lost, and looking through your ISO you yourself admitted being lost at some point (or mb it was Nati)

and I'm starting to get pissed off bc both your and Bert's scumreads on me are bc I'm not doing "what's expected of me". what the fuck am I supposed to do with that? have you seen any completed large games with me as town? no, bc none exist. there is no way you can know what is "expected of me" in a large game as town. I've explained why my play in large games is different. you act like I didn't. combined with the town motivation in my actions, you should be able to see that I'm town here. rather, considering we have 3 completed games together and we've got along well in the past, I'd expect you to see that I'm town here. but you're still misreading me? wake up

[pieguyn]

@Generic:

they've already given specifics

afaik it was smth like
1. not cross-checking my reads enough
2. not asking people about others posts enough
3. push on sakura, which I've already explained was to gauge her reaction. so ofc it's going to feel somewhat forced

I've explained how 1 and 2 was bc of me failing at large games but apparently they don't buy it. that's why I'm worried about them. they should be able to recognize the town motivation in my actions, but apparently not 0.0

[pieguyn]

this one was intended to gauge her reaction more than anything else

in those games I found smth and pushed on it. in this game my first intent was explicitly to see her reaction, rather than poking around at smth suspicious. so I went to 1v1 her immediately even if my reason was kind of weak, rather than pushing on her bc she seemed the most suspicious

[pieguyn]

yeah, to some extent

I'm trying to figure out what's going on bc ffery hasn't misread me before. but I think her reasons for accusing me are really off and not smth I'd expect from her. I still think they're town but their push on me is worrying me a bit

[pieguyn]

it seems like in every game Sakura and I 1v1 at some point. so I figured it would be a nice starting point

[pieguyn]

it seems like in every game Sakura and I 1v1 at some point. so I figured it would be a nice starting point

Ok, so you fabricated a reason for a 1v1, the 1v1 came off perfunctory and fake and it ended without resolution.

And you're

surprised

that I'd get a bad vibe off that?

misrep. I didn't fabricate a reason, I started a 1v1 despite the fact that my reason for accusing her was kind of weak. it was a weak read but not fabricated

I'm surprised bc there is nothing but town intent in said 1v1, and I think you would be able to recognize this. iirc you love reactions and shit, so you pushing this as scummy is really odd. plus, remember in imperishable night when you and Cabd pushed a "scumslip" on me to see my reaction? what's the difference between this and that?

actually, here's a question

The surprise is not that you are not townreading me. The surprise is that you are not doing more to sort me. So far, the bulk of your questions to me have been of the form "What do you think of Kaze?" and "Do you agree with me about Kaze?".

this was from AA:MFA. I'm wondering, what have you been doing to sort me this game? until now, I can't remember you asking me any questions. in AA:MFA I recall you pointing out things you didn't like about my posts before you fixed your read on me. but here I can't even remember anything like that 0.0

[pieguyn]

It came off like you were checking off tick marks in what you perceive as your town game. "mix it up with Sakura - check".

sry but it's time for me to completely own you

if I was doing this, then there are 2938472398 things that have no explanation whatsoever. let me list off a few of them

1. my 1v1 vs. Nacho. we've had 2 games with Nacho and you may notice that I've never attacked him directly. at all. instead I generally resort to PoE to sort him, or let others sort him for me. this is the very first time I've ever 1v1'd with Nacho. what is the scum motivation in going directly against one of the strongest players around with literally no prior experience in 1v1'ing them? I'd have to be batshit crazy and it's not something I'd ever do as scum. especially after my experience in touhou upick where I played like complete shit
2. this 1v1 vs. you. see above. I generally try to avoid directly sorting strong players, and instead let those who are familiar with them sort them instead, or resort to PoE. and I consider you a p strong player
3. if I was scum in this game I'd be playing at 9000% above my normal potential. look at my two scumgames and see how everyone knew I was scum by the end. zmuffin has the right idea. I'm not a good scum player and I sure as hell can't play the way I'm playing here as scum 0.0
4. same thing, but see: the quality of my sorting. my reads are generally really sketchy as scum and it's in no small part how I got caught in the aforementioned game

I'm pushing the boundaries of my town game and exploring uncharted territory just by doing shit like this. I wouldn't do this as scum bc the one time I tried this kind of play as scum I got completely 0wned, and my scumgame is so terrible that I don't care to try smth like that again anytime soon. QED.

this is why you're worrying me - I'd expect you to pick up on stuff like this, especially the 1v1 vs. Nacho. considering your main focus seems to be sorting him, I'd definitely expect you to notice this and go "well that's a first, pieguy is 1v1'ing with Nacho". but apparently not?

My play is probably more like GiF's micro in some ways. Though the direction of suspicion is opposite, sorting Nacho was my early-to-midgame priority. I'm not fully happy that I've sorted him, but given his levenl of presence in the thread, this is probably as good as it gets on day 1. If that's my sole contribution to the game state, it will have to do.

I'm p sure in that game too you at least devoted some effort on D1 to sorting me. here, I don't recall anything of that sort

[pieguyn]

also note how maraca rolls in with the random mason claim right when we're pushing on ffery

I'm not at all sold on that claim

[pieguyn]

it's mostly bc of the timing re: ffery

if it weren't for that I'd be way more inclined to believe your claim. I think it's still believable but just noting the timing of events

[pieguyn]

just because one of my fabricated town reads claims mason.

uh

[pieguyn]

Uh what? She does that a ton as both alignments, her coming out that she fabircated a town read on me to gage reactions would hardly be suprising.

huh
this is one reason why I don't buy her reasoning for thinking my 1v1 with Sakura is scummy
like I had a general idea that was similar to this but confirming she explicitly fabricates reads as town to get reactions makes me even more confident 0.0

[pieguyn]

Muffintown.

how sure are you about this

[pieguyn]

Changed my mind. 2848 was incredibly town but I pushed it farther to make sure I cover all my bases and don't get paranoid of you again for the rest of the game. I was townreading you all throughout the game and wanted this one read to be my stake in the ground (especially with Tammy being V/LA) but that wasn't happening because I couldn't see your reasoning for the MC townread. I guess I got what I wanted. Sorry if that was annoying.

you think she can't fake it as scum?

also what happened to her read on me and her push on bert?

Farto v sephi is even worse.

oh god rofl

[pieguyn]

p much right after you voted me. I figured it was odd that you were still misreading me, and apparently strongly enough to vote me. I was having reservations bc I couldn't see the scum motivation in starting said wagon on me but then I changed my mind after I started pushing on you

but in light of what F-16 and GIF are saying I'm having doubts AGAIN and thinking you might be town after all @_@

[pieguyn]

this

The correct way to ask that question is: "would she have a mind to fake that post and not post anything else in the situation she was in as scum?"

plus F-16 p much said the same thing

[pieguyn]

so if you agree it's harder to sort people in large games, why are you surprised that I'm not able to sort people at the same level you're used to seeing from me?

10. pieguyn SonOfZeus - He's not doing some stuff that I am used to seeing him do when he's town, particularly cross-checking his reads with other players and frequently asking people what they think about other players' posts. The Sakura interactions didn't feel quite right somehow.

Not nearly to the extent you usually do IME.

the first sentence is basically this. especially considering I am doing what you mentioned, just not "to the extent I usually do"

we've been back and forth on the second sentence but I still don't get, considering Cabd said you apparently fabricate reads to get reactions, why you'd assume my push on sakura was scum motivated. like remember in IN how you-Cabd faked a "scumslip" on me to get my reaction? this is basically the same thing as that. though now that I'm thinking about it again I remember I had massive amounts of paranoia of you two most of D1 bc of that, so I might be in the wrong here 0.0

[pieguyn]

I'm not voting Stuffed Crust for a lot of reasons.

For one, when Mac opened the game he seemed fairly light, casual, smooth, confident. I don't feel his openings come across like that when he is scum. He also engaged us on our townread of him early, and followed up on it later which is a forwent sign since scum usually aren't bothered by townreads in them, especially when they are getting wagoned.

Varsoon was pretty easy and confident in his towniness and defiant as hell, don't remember seeing that in Xenogears. I mean, sure, he had fun with Charles Barkley and all that jazz but this confidence isnt centered around his slam dunk case bullshit; it's centered around how he is town with a holy mission and he will pour his soul into that mission. I especially liked his Dat Ass posts and his red tie posts; we have seen Varsoon as scum under pressure situations before, and he never manages to come out quite the same. What is lacking in what Varsoon has posted so far is his conspiracy theories and his crazy crazy brand of towniness, but I still think that it is closer to his normal town game than his scum game.

I like Macs confidence and the way that he goes about his pushes. I can't ever remember seeing a Mac scum game where he went after a hard to reach target as confidently as he's doing here, and I like the way he's handling geists voting him.

What I realized when retreading is that there's not as much as I'd like in the Iso from Mac, but I still think that him making the pushes he's been making under the pressure he's been under makes him more town than anything.

So, Sakura. Shoot again.

what hte fuck?

why should I believe any of this when
a. you're scum
b. SC is scum
c. you just

said in a previous post that you know how to disband wagons with "meta"

and
GIF's scumread on Varsoon is based on what he knows of Varsoon (read: meta)?

I'm not going to question the actual meta bc bolded, but this is making me worry

what a load of shit, why are you discrediting his town case on us so easily?

this is scummy as fuck. Generic is this that tell you were talking about? bc it feels like it. it feels like he's pissed off bc sakura is blatantly ignoring Casso's "towncase", as opposed to bc she's misreading him

Current reads:
Town: Maracabd, goodmorning, Bert, DOMO.
Leaning Town: Korean BBQ.
Leaning Scum: geists
Scumreads: Casso, SC.

what happened to your townread on me and why the flip flop on Casso?

also is it just me or is this THE SAME THING AS AA:MFA? there she attacked the fuck out of her scumbuddies and put them both in her scum pile. she said postgame that she hates that tactic and probably wouldn't do it again, but it seems like a really hard habit to break. attacking your scumbuddies is a nice way to appear town and not take too much responsibility bc you KNOW they're scum. so if she rolled scum immediately after that game, she wouldn't have very much time to adjust her scumgame

the thing that's giving me reservations is that in that game she did it from the get go. here she was townreading Casso. however, giving a random flip flop with no explanation doesn't make me feel any better 0.0

this is all WIFOM anyway so I'm not sold

Sakura has just been a lurker most of this game, but I'm not one who can say I have luck reading her. And does her game here resemble AA-Sakura at all? If so, how?

hi
also, see our 1v1 when I replaced in

That was pretty awkward of you.
But no, you're not going to make me change my mind about either of you.

PEd: Glad someone agrees with me on GM.

wow nice discredit. votes Sakura -> she tries to discredit her attacker by calling her awkward

VOTE: giests

explain plz

I'll also accept any explanation of what Stuffed did to look more town.
Because otherwise it is beyond fail that you just unvoted.

nacho is apparently townreading him. but I'm not even going to bother with this bc "omg hydra dissonance"

Nope. Sak is my townread and I intend to keep it.

explain plz

And apparently you're scumreading geists but willing to follow Mara on F-16 what is this?

this logic is bad
you know why considering TNE used it in AA:MFA

AND NEITHER IS VARSOON

Pedit: Thor's never been this freaking town, ever.

Nacho's thoughts are super freaking transparent

I can never see where Nacho is going with this stuff when he's scum, I can see them now. I know what he's thinking, and his explanations are AHMAYZING

how he's defending his reads, how he is forming his reads is just so good that I would feel completely safe in his embrace

like, no joke.

do you think Thor wouldn't play the not-caring card as scum?

also Nacho apparently has a townread on me and idr where it came from 0.0 so I don't see how his thoughts are "super freaking transparent"

[pieguyn]

HEY GUYS THE F-16 WAGON IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD GET THE FUCK OFF HIM. QUIT FUCKING SHEEPING MARA JUST BC SHE'S "CONFIDENT" IN HER READ. I'M CONFIDENT IN MY CASSO SCUMREAD WHY AREN'T YOU ALL SHEEPING ME INSTEAD. SURE MARA IS SUPPOSEDLY A MASON BUT WHO FUCKING CARES

EVERYTHING HE'S DONE MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN MOTIVATION AND FROM A TOWN MODEL

EVERYTHING

AND I CAN'T SEE HOW APPARENTLY THERE'S SO MUCH SCUM MOTIVATION IN HIS ACTIONS FOR HIM TO BE LYNCHED

AS SOON AS GEISTS SAID THIS

In the Harry Potter game he and I played he said afterwards that he regretted not defending his town reads more vigorously than he did.

I FELT ESPECIALLY CONFIDENT THAT HE'S TOWN HERE

if he's WK'ing me then I'll accept defeat bc I'm 100% confident he's town >_<//

vote: SC

WE'RE LYNCHING THIS TODAY

[pieguyn]

town
1. Tammy
2. geists (fferyllt + Natirasha) <- back to where I was before about her
4. MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal) <- lolmason
5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon
7. Bert roflcopter <- feeling p confident about Bert. 3188 sealed it for me. I find myself wanting to do that a lot and given he looks town I'm going with him town here
10. pieguyn SonOfZeus
11. BROseidon <- I was thinking about him a bit bc he hadn't done any town-as-fuck things in a while, but he was feeling town as fuck at game start and I still think it's p strong how lost he was. on a gut level it didn't feel faked either
13. KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain)
14. goodmorning

null-town
6. Generic <- I'm starting to feel paranoid of him. when I townread him I wasn't aware how good his scumgame was. looking back at my townread on him, and especially the "town-as-fuck post" that made me sure of my read on him I don't necessarily think he couldn't fake it as scum. I'll have to look at him more later
17. zMuffinMan talah <- yeah that's right I'm ending the day with a townread on zmuffin idgaf how good his scumgame is. I think he's been really logical in what he's said so far. sure he can do this as scum but like he feels infinitely more like the town zmuffin who owned the shit out of me in touhou upick than IN zmuffin. so it's mostly gut but w/e

null
8. MafiaSSK roflwaffles
12. Norlkaz Brian Skies
16. Ser Arthur Dayne pitoli
18. DOMO
20. Desperado

scum
3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665)
9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon) <- GIF's read
15. Sakura Hana <- hi AA:MFA sakura
19. Cephrir

out of time lynch sc plz

[pieguyn]

Though you are making wonderful strides towards providing "evidence that Pie is skimming and not reading". Huzzah.

well yeah I'm for the most part skimming. I'm on vacation and my time is p limited atm. I was thinking since you were asking what made SC more town that you had a scumread on him @_@

Bert, what do you think about lynching Casso instead?

I'd be very ok with this

[pieguyn]

But good cover in at least being honest that you aren't reading gak - do you often do that as town? Like, if I went and looked I'd find other skimming games you did as town?

first sentence is a misrep. I never implied I was reading

as for the last part, I don't really care. I misinterpret stuff all the time and in this case the skimming contributed to that. and I get the feeling that a lot of my misinterpretations come from me not reading enough into posts, hence skimming

this wording is skeevy as fuck and it seems like you're twisting my words around 0.0

[pieguyn]

it's skeevy as fuck bc

But good cover

saying it's a "cover" implies I'm lying about the amount of reading I'm doing. which is a misrep and now it contradicts this

You never implied you weren't either - that's why I asked you if you were or weren't.

bc it implies you were trying to find out how much reading I was doing, which if it was a "cover" you'd know already from my posts

Like, if I went and looked I'd find other skimming games you did as town?

this seemed p ambiguous like it was associating skimming as a whole with the above, when there are different meanings behind it (not reading enough into posts, literally skimming, misinterpreting a post etc.) which is why I think you're twisting my words around - you can probably come back later and change the meaning of a statement like this around to suit your needs. it also fits the idea that you're grasping at straws

It's a simple yes/no question. Really easy to do.

I answered it, but in yes/no terms: yes

[pieguyn]

I said that I could easily defend people that I am familiar with based on a meta basis. Most people who aren't absolute shit as scum can competently make a case as either alignment. Does that mean you never trust cases because they can make cases as scum? No. It means you take into account the merit of a case and actually look into it when a case is provided.

I don't trust myself with meta, so basically I'm following GIF's meta read. especially bc I have a townread on BBQ, I feel way more comfortable with GIF's read and thus I think there's a real chance you BS'ed your meta towncase. if I thought I had the ability to verify either way, I would ><

pieface, if you can link me to an old game of yours where you replaced into a town slot, and you catch up in this manner, I'll drop this attack as fast as I dropped the flawed town tell on F-16.

it's ongoing so I can't cite it .-.

[pieguyn]

also, I just realized smth

Good to know.

Thor this game is supposedly not really caring about anything and just wants a lynch right?

if he doesn't feel like putting any effort in, why would he be interested in doing a meta dive on me? such a thing takes a lot of time and effort. so it doesn't make sense 0.0

vote: Casso

anyone up for a flashwagon here?

[pieguyn]

holy crap my miss
sry, I don't have enough time/energy atm to follow what's going on >_<//I basically just saw "sakura wagon -> L-1 -> massive AtE/outburst/w.e happened -> it got disbanded -> SSK wagon" 0.0

how many votes are on SSK?

[pieguyn]

ok thx

vote: SSK

[pieguyn]

every time I try to think about what to do in this game I can't come up with anything

I think I'm going insane > <

why aren't we lynching SC again

@Casso:

do you think it's unlikely they're faking some of the things you pointed out in your towncase?

@GIF:

do you think you might be misreading SC?

[pieguyn]

Pieguyn: scum for the next few minutes just for sake of attempting to make me waffle again on SC

gomennasai GIF-sama I d-d-didn't mean to

vote: SC

L-1

[pieguyn]

I'm in the process of recalibrating here. I think I literally went insane near the end of D1 and I get the feeling a lot of my scumreads were wrong

town
2. geists (fferyllt + Natirasha)
4. MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal)
5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon
7. Bert roflcopter
10. pieguyn SonOfZeus
11. BROseidon
13. KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) <- I still feel p strong about this despite SC town. like I've never felt confident about GIF town before and this is it. if he's scum I'm going to cry
14. goodmorning

null-town
6. Generic <- there was smth in his push on DOMO that pinged me and I can't remember what it was. I'll have to go back and find it. besides that, going with F-16's meta read
17. zMuffinMan talah
20. Desperado <- my memory is p hazy atm. I recall him looking town and saying a lot of things that I remember seeming town. later I'll need to look at him in more detail to confirm or deny this

uuuuuu town
3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) <- casso got townpoints for end of D1. the only thing that's giving me reservations is possibility of Casso + Sakura team. either way, from what I remember of his D1 play I don't see what the scum motivation behind any of it is (besides below), and I think I have a better understanding of Thor's feeling of "just wanting a lynch already" now. on a gut level it didn't seem faked and I think I got blinded by the fct that his initial target was me. so I'm going with casso town for now. idr everything he did on D1 so I need to look at it again. if smth doesn't add up we can revisit the possibility later
15. Sakura Hana <- in a recent game she played offsite she started raging and talking about quitting bc she got lynched as scum despite the fact she supposedly acted the exact same way she would as town. so I could see her thinking about quitting after being lynched in this game even if she's scum, for that same reason. plus I could totally see scum nacho going "hey let's run you to L-1 and put on scum theater about you wanting to quit and then wagon someone else", especially if maracabd's idea about daychat is correct. she'd be in my townpile if it weren't for this

leaving
8. MafiaSSK roflwaffles
12. Norlkaz Brian Skies
16. Ser Arthur Dayne pitoli
18. DOMO
19. Cephrir

I haven't looked at what's happened on D2 in detail yet. will do later

for now, can people explain their scumreads on bert? I don't see it @_@

[pieguyn]

CATCHUP GO

Yay, let's wagon the townread (at least one of mine) after the null we're trying to wagon claims doc.

Anymore stupid decisions while I'm not there so I can't yell and complain about them in the moment?

afaik on D1 you were all about not lynching SSK bc it wouldn't give any information. wouldn't a lynch on SC give way more information than a lynch on SSK?

DOMO, just checking here but are you going to call everyone who had issues with you suspicious, or are you actually going somewhere with these walls?

What? I like how you focus on my casso push and ignore the bit where I call gesist town.

I was asking a question based on the fact I see you dive in on casso who had suspicions of you and then zmuffins who made a comment about you.

I asked whether you were going somewhere with it or just gonna post another wall with another player named for suspicion for uttering your name in a negative light.

But feel free to jump on the defensive and a respond with something irrelevant to what I asked.

Oh, and good for you that you think geists is town for not killing you in the night... Is that a legitimate reason around here?

I think posts like this are what pinged in generic vs. DOMO. bc it felt p clear to me what DOMO was doing (refuting generic's point with the geists read, then generic said it was irrelevant) and I felt generic was twisting DOMO's words aroudn. but looking at the rest of the argument I don't think that's what happened, or if it was it was unintentional

My apologies for calling you a moron DOMO.

unvote

I don't mind you voting me if you think I'm scummy generic, don't feel compelled to unvote to keep things civil.

the way this argument ended felt town as shit on both sides. Generic's outburst and subsequent backoff felt town as fuck and I get where he was coming from with his arguments. that with F-16's meta read later on gives me a solid townread on him. same thing with DOMO. the way they worked out how it was a misunderstanding felt so town I almost cried =w=

pieguyn: I liked his entry posts but he keeps doing weird things, like blowing up which seems really out of character in between calm posts. Tone is too cold for my tastes.

so you think it's weird when I make an emotional post, but when I make logical posts it's also weird bc the tone is too cold?

Hmm it can't be possible that the whole scumteam (minus nacho) is jumping on my wagon can it.

Hmmm.

I know you pushed on me for OMGUS'ing everyone who was pushing on me. why are you doing the same thing here? 0.0

looking back on it, why was my reaction one of the most boringest reactions in the world? I've seen scum hide behind the "reaction test" excuse too many times. in a game that just finished, scum tried to quickhammer, FAILED, wrote it off as a reaction test and no one caught it. although it was probably bc town was too apathetic to catch it, but the idea still holds

wow your push on me really was opportunistic as fuck. it doesn't help that your read on me seems to be derived from everyone else's read on me at that time. you townread me after your initial push and when people started scumreading me again you moved me lower

Bert, Desperado
MafiaSSK, geists, Cephrir
pieguyn, BROseidon, KoreanBBQ, Norlkaz, zMuffinMan
goodmorning, Sakura, DOMO, Generic
Casso, F-16, MC Maraca

what the fuck?

first off, I thought SSK was null. how did he go from null to null-scum?

second off, back to the comment about the information from a SC lynch. there was plenty of discussion about SC so I'd imagine you should be going back and looking at his wagon and people's stances on him etc. in order to analyze it

Stuffed Crust (11) (LYNCH) - Cephrir, geists, Tammy, Desperado, Bert, Sakura Hana, MafiaSSK, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Norlkaz, pieguyn, KoreanBBQ
Casso the King of Seals (3) - zMuffinMan, goodmorning, Generic

Bert

,

Desperado

MafiaSSK

,

geists

,

Cephrir

pieguyn

, BROseidon,

KoreanBBQ

,

Norlkaz

, zMuffinMan
goodmorning,

Sakura

, DOMO, Generic
Casso,

F-16

, MC Maraca

especially considering all of your scumreads seem to be on the wagon. yet you forget about said wagon, don't go back to look at how your scumreads jumped on the wagon, and never bring it up again? and instead you ATTACK THE GUY WHO'S SCRUTINIZING HOW YOUR NULL READ HAMMERED?

I like this wagon

vote: arthur

Can anyone remind me why MC Maraca claimed?

bc they have daychat, and so they think scum probably has daychat and they want everyone to know this

[pieguyn]

@Cephrir:

what do you think about 2268?

@geists:

why are you having reservations about nacho?

looking back on his D1 play, I'm not sure if I see the scum motivation in it. first off we had SC who practically had a death note signed thx to GIF scumreading him. instead nacho made a town case and stood by it. and now that he flipped town we know he wasn't trying to defend a buddy, so why would scum nacho directly stand against GIF and everyone who was supporting him (most of the player list)? especially bc he had every opportunity to mislynch SC and he didn't take it 0.0 he could be scum faking, but idk

second, the wagon switching at deadline. you said all the effort he put in was town as fuck. are you starting to rethink this?

also, do you disagree with all the people saying thor is town as fuck? I'm inclined to agree with them after going insane on D1 bc now I get his feeling of "just wanting a lynch already". also, nacho's push on me bc of my lack of interest in zmuffin makes so much more sense considering he knew zmuffin was scum against me in marketplace 3

@Maraca:

^

@anyone with a scumread on bert:

explain

@geists and Casso:

what reservations are you having about zmuffin?

bc I'm thinking zmuffin might be town here. sure he just owned the fuck out of me in marketplace 3 but there's some things I'd expect scum zmuffin to do that he hasn't done here. I'd rather not elaborate bc I'm butthurt and wanna keep the read secret for future use T_T

yay DOMO is town for sure. that's one of my remaining players sorted :>

[pieguyn]

Vote: Desperado

Vote has no relation with what DOMO just said, but i find it odd that he was super convinced I was scum yesterday and stopped the push today.

walk me through your scumread on desp plz? afaik you had it on D1, so there had to be more to it than this

also, are you still scumreading Nacho?

why? it was based on a faulty assumption

and

the answer was self evident

can you elaborate on your sakura read

how do you like the chance scum Nacho tried to "conf-town" scum Sakura by pushing a wagon on her to L-1?

[pieguyn]

explain SAD town

I doubt he'd do that bc it goes against practically everyone in the game. he'd risk getting way too much scrutiny over it. I wouldn't put it past him at all, but given how much he stood by his read and didn't back down, it seems more town motivated than scum motivated. ofc there's the idea that it'd be kind of suicidal to back down as scum after all the effort he put in, but not sure 0.0

can you elaborate plz