NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[geists]

Though I will say that F-16's comments about post X being town but wanting to push a little further to eliminate all paranoia felt off. The "push a little further" post didn't seem like the stuff of which rock solid reads are made.

[Empire]

Day 1, Votecount 59

Stuffed Crust (5)

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Cephrir, KoreanBBQ, geists, Desperado, Sakura Hana

F-16_Fighting_Falcon (4)

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MC Maraca, BROseidon, Ser Arthur Dayne, DOMO

Casso the King of Seals (3)

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zMuffinMan, goodmorning, pieguyn

MC Maraca (1)

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Tammy

goodmorning (1)

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Norlkaz

MafiaSSK (1)

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Generic

Sakura Hana (1)

-

Casso the King of Seals

geists (1)

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Bert

Not Voting (3)

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MafiaSSK, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Stuffed Crust

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch! Deadline is on December 26th at 3:45 PM EST or in (expired on 2013-12-26 16:44:27)

Mod Notes

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Varsoon head of Stuffed Crust V/LA until January 25th. Tammy is V/LA until the 23rd. F-16_Fighting_Falcon is V/LA until the 31st. goodmorning is V/LA until the 26th. DOMO is V/LA until the 27th. Generic is V/LA until the 26th.

[MC Maraca]

my "dumb move" being, me calling Tammy scum and pushing it which isn't something people havn't done before.

that's all I did.

and no, snap-answers are not a town-tell. I've done it in my last game a few times, I think (with nacho, it just finished) and more times than not, I quickly answer anything regardless of my alignment.

[DOMO]

DOMO, did you get to my responses explaining why Mara's case is BS?

I took the link, laughed at the graph, and stopped reading.

I'm happy with mara's claim. I doubt very much that scum fakeclaims mason on d1 after crumbing it. Mara provided a compelling case. I challenged the case explaining my townread, that townread has been shown to be flawed. Thus, I'm happy with my vote again. I'll be the first to admit that I'm sheeping because I'm so far behind, but I'm sheeping someone I am convinced is town and who has faith in her reads. Mara has more faith in her scum read on you than I have in anyone.

[MC Maraca]

I don't like the F-16 wagon.

I'm weighing Nacho's points about Mac, though I do not have the warm fuzzy he does about Mac's posts.

There's a pretty good chance I'll move our vote to Sakura after I mull a while.

why not?

[Bert]

His elaboration on Generic and Sakura reads made sense as did his push on Geists.

My push on Geists made sense, but if it makes sense, why do you have them as strong town?

[geists]

I don't like the F-16 wagon.

I'm weighing Nacho's points about Mac, though I do not have the warm fuzzy he does about Mac's posts.

There's a pretty good chance I'll move our vote to Sakura after I mull a while.

why not?

His hunterxhunterx style proposal to Nacho.

His strong pushback on my reads that he disagreed with.

The fact that he didn't instantly cave on his read of you when Cabd role claimed.

The attention to minute in-thread details he's shown.

And this one is going to be hard to explain and probably hard to grasp, too. I've played two games with him where I was scum and where he was town. In both games I saw where, when and how his meta research on me would fail at times, and how strongly confident he was about the meta read even so. And I saw how he used meta dynamically to adjust as the game progressed..

I'm comparing this to Newbie 1329. He meta'd in that game as well, and he did it well. he posted walls of meta.

What he did with the meta was different. And that's all I'm saying for now because competitive advantage is a thing.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

His elaboration on Generic and Sakura reads made sense as did his push on Geists.

My push on Geists made sense, but if it makes sense, why do you have them as strong town?

Your paranoia of ffery accusing you reminded me incredibly strongly about Newbie 1415 where you had certain paranoia but suppressed it until it slowly started building up and you threw out a vote and starting pushing for a lynch. Your paranoid reactions match those very closely. I know you can fake paranoia as scum like in the Mentor and Mentee game but it just didn't have the same progression/suppresion of reads and had a lot of other elements like hedging, subtle buddying, and unrealistic expectations that are usually not present in your towngame.

I explained why I have a townread on Geists. I have town and scum baselines for how ffery reacts when her reads are challenged (with variations accounting for how well she knows the target as well as how well the challenger knows the target) both in games I've played and the one I modded. This reaction and follow up matched the town baseline very closely and is very far from the scum baseline. I challenged her reads several times in the games we played together (read the HP game and Micro 252 for instance). The responses are alignment indicative.

[geists]

His elaboration on Generic and Sakura reads made sense as did his push on Geists.

My push on Geists made sense, but if it makes sense, why do you have them as strong town?

Your internal consistency made sense once you stopped pecking at stuff and actually took a stand. That's when I stopped worrying that you were pulling another Open 534.

[MC Maraca]

the first two points are Meh IMO

HxH style proposal to Nacho doesn't really mean anything to me. I picked up on it, sure but why can't scum do that?

and I pushback strongly on reads that I "Disagree with" as scum too, I did that in the recently completed open, and in Ceph's game. I don't see why doing it would make him town, or others as scum can't do it.

third, ok... I guess

but the forth is more scum-esque I think. especially when he's melding it to his views, I know for a fact that I tend to be more attentive to details as scum than I am as scum.

[Bert]

don't let Mara spam her way into a tantrum lynch which is basically what this is. She made a dumb move. I called her out on it. She was unable to admit that she made a dumb move and is instead pushing a lynch to save face.

How is it a tantrum lynch? Just wondering what leads you to paint it as such. She seems pretty stable so far today.

I probably won't get to looking through a lot of the past activity in here until I get back to my laptop at school after New Year's...

so how is it dumb what she did?

[Bert]

And this one is going to be hard to explain and probably hard to grasp, too. I've played two games with him where I was scum and where he was town. In both games I saw where, when and how his meta research on me would fail at times, and how strongly confident he was about the meta read even so. And I saw how he used meta dynamically to adjust as the game progressed..

So you disagree with those that say Falcon's posts have sucked in the past 20 pages or so?

And also, I'm very curious about your views because you were prodding/questioning Falcon a lot in the early/mid stages of this game, it seems (IIRC). E.g. - Expressing how you were having trouble townreading him, and wondering to yourself that maybe it's because you've always known his alignment when playing with him

[geists]

the first two points are Meh IMO

HxH style proposal to Nacho doesn't really mean anything to me. I picked up on it, sure but why can't scum do that?

The more important question is why

would

scum do that.

and I pushback strongly on reads that I "Disagree with" as scum too, I did that in the recently completed open, and in Ceph's game. I don't see why doing it would make him town, or others as scum can't do it.

You're you. What you do as scum is not necessarily a good measure of what someone else does, particularly someone who plays such an intensively meta-based game.

third, ok... I guess

That's the sort of timing thing that scum players have trouble making look natural.

but the forth is more scum-esque I think. especially when he's melding it to his views, I know for a fact that I tend to be more attentive to details as scum than I am as scum.

It's the kind of detail that jumps out when you're scum vs town, though. And this one could be me projecting my own scum game, but I know that it's extremely difficult to read a game and see it with town eyes when I'm not town. Surprisingly difficult given how easy it is to just

be

town.

[Sakura Hana]

On further re-read, geists still hasn't done what i'd expect them to be doing by now, Also i'm retracting my townread on Casso and flipping it over. Nacho doesnt give easy townreads like that and it's bothering me like hell all.

Current reads:
Town: Maracabd, goodmorning, Bert, DOMO.
Leaning Town: Korean BBQ.
Leaning Scum: geists
Scumreads: Casso, SC.

Everyone else is null.

[Bert]

I also would like to know what Ffery expects to get from a late-minute Sakura push that she still has to "mull for a while." Feels like her mulling over a GoodMorning vote in 1436, that's what gives me pause.

Sakura has just been a lurker most of this game, but I'm not one who can say I have luck reading her. And does her game here resemble AA-Sakura at all? If so, how?

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura has just been a lurker most of this game, but I'm not one who can say I have luck reading her. And does her game here resemble AA-Sakura at all? If so, how?

I'm here now, so feel free to interact with me as much as you want to remove that paranoia off your head.

[Casso the King of Seals]

What have I missed?

Because it look slike we're +30 pages since last time I was here and the vote count looks basically identical.

[geists]

And this one is going to be hard to explain and probably hard to grasp, too. I've played two games with him where I was scum and where he was town. In both games I saw where, when and how his meta research on me would fail at times, and how strongly confident he was about the meta read even so. And I saw how he used meta dynamically to adjust as the game progressed..

So you disagree with those that say Falcon's posts have sucked in the past 20 pages or so?

I haven't noticed anyone do more than handwave about the past 20 pages or so. I totally TOTALLY disagreed with his push on Maraca, and I thought he made too much of a deal about Tammy being some delicate flower whose day 1 effectiveness could be completely destroyed by a scumread. She's capbable of taking that kind of thing in stride and using it to advantage. I've seen her do it.

And also, I'm very curious about your views because you were prodding/questioning Falcon a lot in the early/mid stages of this game, it seems (IIRC). E.g. - Expressing how you were having trouble townreading him, and wondering to yourself that maybe it's because you've always known his alignment when playing with him

I'm pretty sure I mentioned a moment of epiphany. I've had a town read from that point, where I realized/recalled how his play had looked to players who didn't know his alignment - what sorts of things bothered them about his play - and realized I reacting similarly to similar play in this one. The Tammy defense is a good example actually, where he went overboard in defense of a player to the point of taking an offensive stance with the person he was defending against.

[BROseidon]

But what's more disconcerting is the AMOUNT of naked votes suddenly moving over to him with no noticeable indication from these people they were swayin that way.

Would you define my vote as a naked vote?

[Casso the King of Seals]

Unvote: Sakura
Vote: Stuffed Crust

Pretty sure he's town.
Discuss.

[geists]

On further re-read, geists still hasn't done what i'd expect them to be doing by now, Also i'm retracting my townread on Casso and flipping it over. Nacho doesnt give easy townreads like that and it's bothering me like hell all.

Current reads:
Town: Maracabd, goodmorning, Bert, DOMO.
Leaning Town: Korean BBQ.
Leaning Scum: geists
Scumreads: Casso, SC.

Everyone else is null.

VOTE: Sakura Hana

[BROseidon]

V/LA til after Christmas.

So glad you allow players like GOodmorning to coast like this. Have you isoed her posts? Since the self aware hand waving of being called suspicious for doing nothing she has fluff posted and prod doded her way along.

Had there not been a potential mason link thrown out I would put more energy into this, but just wanted to say those of you auto clearing her on this behaviour disgust me. That's not mafia, that's making up the numbers.

Sakura hana is almost the same, except she is now in focus so I expect to see something from her.

Scumlurk vs. townlurk.

Townlurk is bad, but ultimately comes from town.

GM's lurk looks like townlurk right now.

[Casso the King of Seals]

@Geist - Meaningless side-line vote is meaningless and side-lined.

[BROseidon]

Bert, why did you vote for someone based on gut when there are some who have ligitimately bothered you?

wtf is this question?

[Sakura Hana]

That was pretty awkward of you.
But no, you're not going to make me change my mind about either of you.

PEd: Glad someone agrees with me on GM.