NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Empire]

Day 1, Votecount 39

Stuffed Crust (4)

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KoreanBBQ, Sakura Hana, DOMO, Desperado

pieguyn (3)

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Casso the King of Seals, MC Maraca, Ser Arthur Dayne

Casso the King of Seals (2)

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zMuffinMan, goodmorning

Ser Arthur Dayne (1)

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pieguyn

geists (1)

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Generic

roflcopter (1)

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F-16_Fighting_Falcon

DOMO (1)

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BROseidon

KoreanBBQ (1)

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roflcopter

Desperado (1)

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Stuffed Crust

Not Voting (5)

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Brian Skies, Tammy, geists, MafiaSSK, Cephrir

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch! Deadline is on December 20th at 3:45 PM EST or in (expired on 2013-12-20 16:44:27)

Mod Notes

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Sakura Hana is V/LA until Monday. KoreanBBQ are V/LA until Sunday. BROseidon is V/LA until Monday. Casso the King of Seals is V/LA until the 22nd.

[pieguyn]

Why does Pie have like one of the most boringest reactions in the world.

holy fucking wow
so you dodge all my questions and instead redirect by drawing attention onto my reaction. this makes me think you don't actually have an answer for any of my questions. it's not rhetorical, so get to it :>

The fact that I still can't get a concrete read on him is already infuriating but there's the fact that he seems to hop from one target to the next forgetting EVERYTHING from the last, like restarting fresh every once in a while or something. Add that to a generic OMGUS

this is extremely hypocritical considering you dodged all my questions. if you're town, how am I supposed to get a concrete read on you if you dodge all my questions?

and once again, the same idea. why is OMGUS a scumtell? your jump on me sucked and I called you out on it. again you're trying to write off stuff I do as scummy without examining if it actually is or not. the fact that you're apparently not even trying to answer my questions, engage me, or look at the actual motivation behind my actions, IMO, makes me think you're not trying to legitimately scumhunt me in the first place.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Ah, right, the wagons have remained boring and meh in equal measure.

Ceph got off Stuffed, that might actually be interesting to iso and figure out why - his push there was skeezy as all get out but apparently I'm not allowed to lynch him.
Desp is still there though - also with a skeevy push, at least he's going for continuity of skeeve, so there is that.
All the other wagons remain meh and bad with a side of 'can't get a big one to save our lives'
I'm going to claim SK here in a few just so people have an excuse to vote this slot and maybe we can learn something.
Or maybe that's a tongue-in-cheek-joke that *is* an SK claim... You should probably vote anyway, why not, apparently the plan otherwise is to manage a deadline derp stumble lynch and call it "using all the time".

Apparently I'm on the biggest wagon that isn't a town read.
Five sacks are being sad and not even voting because...y'know...probably like 80 pages isn't enough info yet for them to risk offering their mighty votes and opinions yet.
So...huzzah.
Let's lynch pie.
Reason: because let's lynch anyone.

@BRO - that DOMO wagon is going nowhere fast, move your vote.
@rolfcoptor - I like that vote, but what are you doing to advance that wagon. Get exciting or get off.
@Stuffed - again, I like the vote, honestly I think that may be the best vote out there, but I think when I left we were on Desp so if Nach moved us to Pie then I am pretty happy with that and am on a bigger wagon, wanna sheep us? Heck, it's a good counter to you, let's keep this exciting!
@Generic - Yes, geists looks scummy to me. Big whoop, what are you accomplishing there?
@F16 - What's the rolfcoptor case? How much of it can be applied to any of the other wagons? You may even be active enough to semi-justify that vanity wagon but...c'mon, make some noise.
@Not voting lurk sacks - you suck. Get votes in play. Seriously, what is this? There are entire games smaller than this thread, I'm pretty sure there are valid places for your vote to be right now.

@ENTIRE THREAD - A CrAzY challenge! Let's try to get an L-1 wagon *before* we hit 100 pages! Can we do it!?!?! Who the heck knows!!!!

[Casso the King of Seals]

Why does Pie have like one of the most boringest reactions in the world.

holy fucking wow
so you dodge all my questions and instead redirect by drawing attention onto my reaction. this makes me think you don't actually have an answer for any of my questions. it's not rhetorical, so get to it :>

The fact that I still can't get a concrete read on him is already infuriating but there's the fact that he seems to hop from one target to the next forgetting EVERYTHING from the last, like restarting fresh every once in a while or something. Add that to a generic OMGUS

this is extremely hypocritical considering you dodged all my questions. if you're town, how am I supposed to get a concrete read on you if you dodge all my questions?

and once again, the same idea. why is OMGUS a scumtell? your jump on me sucked and I called you out on it. again you're trying to write off stuff I do as scummy without examining if it actually is or not. the fact that you're apparently not even trying to answer my questions, engage me, or look at the actual motivation behind my actions, IMO, makes me think you're not trying to legitimately scumhunt me in the first place.

I'm just going to quote this and call everything he said scummy with no backing or reasoning provided.
Vote him, I'm a seal!

[pieguyn]

I'm just going to quote this and call everything he said scummy with no backing or reasoning provided.
Vote him, I'm a seal!

what the fuck?

this isn't serious is it

[pieguyn]

@mod: I'm voting ser arthur dayne

~Fixed. (Empire)

[Casso the King of Seals]

I'm just going to quote this and call everything he said scummy with no backing or reasoning provided.
Vote him, I'm a seal!

what the Smurf?

this isn't serious is it

I'm just going to quote this and say, 'look how overdefensive he is' that's a scumtell, you can read it on a wiki or something. It's buzzwordy and rolls off the tongue! Maybe he's OMGUS ATE LALing too or something.

Yes, it's serious. I already made a case on you 218470 pages ago, and at this stage pretty much I'm game for lynching anyone who looks like I can get them lynched that I don't have a semi-town read on (aka - over half the playerlist). It looks like I can get you lynched. I could get Stuffed lynched too, apparently, but he looks town. After that I think *I'm* the third biggest wagon...with TWO VOTES ON ME!

I don't even really care so much about the town thing, frankly. If Stuffed goes to L-1 I may just hammer him without requesting a claim for yucks, because this game is a sludge stew of nothingness and has been for forty pages.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Looking at the Vote Count I see 9 chiefs, 6 Indians, and 5 kids who haven't decided if they want to play yet.

I'm sure these pages are just chock full of awesome pro-town info though.
Later I'll have Nacho explain to me that he only voted you for reactions and I'm not allowed to lynch you either because once, three years ago, you were town, and used the f-word, and tat means you're probably town now since you never fake that.

[pieguyn]

no I mean how you didn't include any reasoning with your post

if you're town this is the most bullshit thing I've ever seen bc you're not giving me anything to work with to help you fix your read on me. if you're scum, on the other hand, how fucking convenient. you can just sit there and not have to take responsibility for anything when I flip town

there's 3 people on me, two of which apparently don't have any reasons at all, and the third one's reasons are complete shit, and even more people are looking like they'll actually buy that shit. damn right I'm going to be defensive. the last thing I want to do is let scum get off an easy mislynch

re: your case, do you mean this

Pie guy vote seems pretty gowiththeflow. Why didn't you question me about my muffin read? I would expect you to be especially interested in it, but you didn't even attempt to address it.

bc that's hilariously weak and I already responded to it. you're taking things I've done without putting them in context. your point about "not questioning my muffin read" is incorrect because there's about 9238473 actions people could take that they don't take for whatever reason. however, you specifically picked this one bc it was convenient for your "case" on me. it's also based off the assumption that I'd be "especially interested" when I'm lazy as fuck and feel overwhelmed enough already trying to sort this many people.

not to mention this whole statement is hypocritical. tell me what's not "gowiththeflow" about this:

pieguyn is actually worrying me some.

Unvote: Korean BBQ
Vote: pieguy

Looking at the Vote Count I see 9 chiefs, 6 Indians, and 5 kids who haven't decided if they want to play yet.

I'm sure these pages are just chock full of awesome pro-town info though.

says the guy who admitted he hadn't even read a lot of the thread

your logic is contradictory as fuck

[pieguyn]

on second thought, fuck this

vote: casso

your push on me is even worse than ser's

@Ser:

I still need an explanation for my points on you plz

[Casso the King of Seals]

no I mean how you didn't include any reasoning with your post

Don't think I need to, even with your glance at our iso you were able to spot the case as phrased by Nacho. Here it is phrased by me;

Also looked at Pie's vote, it's more boring to me, kind of a mush mouth hop on at worst and at best.

We see slightly different aspects but our agreement on the core issue is pretty clear there.
It's also totally different than how I voted you, since, y'know, just for starters, he was actually agreeing with me, not the other way around.
Also, I forgot that I unvoted Desp, ah well, mystery solved.

I'm still perfectly fine with this vote.
Don't really care if the other people on your wagon have logic or don't.

[pieguyn]

so in other words you just ignored all my points

It's also totally different than how I voted you, since, y'know, just for starters, he was actually agreeing with me, not the other way around.
Also, I forgot that I unvoted Desp, ah well, mystery solved.

this is why you're scum. you just handwave my point away with a joke. anyone see the town motivation in this? bc I don't. nice try

I'm still perfectly fine with this vote.

and then you repeat that "you're perfectly fine with this vote". acting like you did provide an explanation for my points, when in reality you didn't answer anything at all

there is so much scum tone in this post it's not funny

[Casso the King of Seals]

so in other words you just ignored all my points

Actually I addressed some and specifically ignored others as not even being worth discussing. Most of what you're debating is what town motivation I have to, functionally 'not care' and I submit that it's laughable the rest of you are choosing to all pretend that you do care and are actually getting anything new out of the day at this point. We need a flip. We needed a flip a week and forty pages ago. If that makes me scum in your mind for saying, then so be it. I know which of us will win a 1v1.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Hey, look, Deadline is in less than five days.
How many L-1 wagons have we managed?

Okay then.

[Empire]

Prodding Brian Skies.

[zMuffinMan]

So, you're thinking town-Desp and town-Pieguy?

yeah. desp is kind of a weak read but the responses he's been giving are more in line with what i'd expect from him as town.

What is it about Brian that makes you think scum? This is not so much like his Cash Cabd game.

i've never seen brian as town, but it's nothing to do with how similar this is (or isn't) to cash cabd. he has like one post of content (the giant wall) and i didn't like anything about it. it felt like he was padding it with a lot of stuff that wasn't relevant and what little of it was actually relevant was non-committal

it's more gut than anything, really

[pieguyn]

I thought you were doing this and now I know

Casso is trying to strongarm a lynch on me case in point

sry but you picked the wrong townie. I'm suicidal and a bit of a masochist and I like a challenge ~

Actually I addressed some and specifically ignored others as not even being worth discussing.

nope. you're handwaving everything I say in effort to flood the thread and hope people don't actually specifically read our exchange.

Most of what you're debating is what town motivation I have to, functionally 'not care' and I submit that it's laughable the rest of you are choosing to all pretend that you do care and are actually getting anything new out of the day at this point.

first off, this is a misrep. I'm accusing you of pushing a lynch on me with shit logic and, when I refute said logic, you ignore my points and try to pass it off like you still have a case on me. it's not entirely your not caring, it's your deception. if you were just another apathetic as fuck townie, then that's fine. but you're putting a bunch of fluff in your posts, ignoring my rebuttals to your "case", and then acting like you destroyed my points. you are trying to suffocate me by constantly ignoring what I say and repeating the idea that I'm scum.

second, if you actually believed this, then you should, to some extent, get my reason for "not asking you about your zmuffin read". but you try to pass it off as scummy. why? bc it's convenient for your "case" on me. there are several instances of choices players can make and actions they can choose to do or not do, so why all of a sudden is this specific one scummy? I don't see you asking anyone at all about their pie townreads. by your own logic, isn't this scummy too? what's the difference?

third, this is another case of you trying to strongarm me. you're subtly implying that there's nothing left to do today in an effort to stop my interactions with you and get people to pack up and follow your "case" on me, before smth incriminating you might come up.

We need a flip. We needed a flip a week and forty pages ago. If that makes me scum in your mind for saying, then so be it.

misrep, I never said you were scum for trying to get a flip ASAP.

I know which of us will win a 1v1.

resorting to scare tactics now, are you? this is just proof of how you're trying to strongarm me. you're trying to discredit me by implying you have more skill and evidence than me so that people are more likely to follow you on top of me.

well, too bad, I'm actually fighting back. probably you could have succeeded in pulling off a mislynch, but you slipped up and now I've amassed a way better case against you. you're gonna die :>

Hey, look, Deadline is in less than five days.
How many L-1 wagons have we managed?

Okay then.

and again here you are shutting me out. now that I'm making points, you're trying to flood the thread with random "we need a lynch" posts to cover it up. this is not going to cut it

[pieguyn]

tl;dr: Casso is constantly
1. selectively taking things I've done, placing them out of context, and painting them as scummy,
2. including things he's done himself,
3. misrepping and discrediting me,
4. handwaving all my points with jokes and constantly saying "it's not worth responding to" without explaining anything,
5. flooding the thread with "lynch pie" posts in an effort to suffocate me, and
6. subtly trying to get people to end the day now that I'm interacting with him,
in an effort to strongarm a lynch on me.

that plus the amount of nothing he's done all game makes me p sure of a scumflip here

readslist incoming

[pieguyn]

town
1. Tammy
2. geists (fferyllt + Natirasha)
5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon
6. Generic
10. pieguyn SonOfZeus
11. BROseidon
14. goodmorning

null-town
4. MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal) <- was under town but F-16 makes a good point. I'd also like to know if Mara's reason for suspecting me is just paranoia or what
13. KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) <- meta read. not 100% sure due to lack of data
18. DOMO <- his logic held up in his interactions with SC and he looks town. I have a case of paranoia here bc I get the feeling a lot of the pressure on him wasn't useful in determining his alignment, but oh well

null
7. roflcopter <- not enough data
8. MafiaSSK roflwaffles <- he's done a lot but idk if any of it is alignment indicative. need more data here
9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon) <- his reaction to the pressure on him seemed town, but him being scum would make sense in the case of Casso strongarm lynch.
12. Brian Skies <- he's being a giant lurkfuck when I'm not used to seeing from him.
16. Ser Arthur Dayne pitoli <- I'm willing to believe for now SAD is just a misguided townie, cause I'm finding it hard to believe there'd be 3 scum pushing a wagon on me like this, and I find Casso to be 9000% more likely to be scum. and he's demonstrated there's at least some logic in his points. I still disagree and want an explanation, but meh
17. zMuffinMan talah <- probably could be higher but paranoia
20. Desperado <- don't have an idea. the trying out a new approach seems town but idk if that's actually alignment indicative.

scum
3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) <- see above
15. Sakura Hana <- I get the feeling she was being really defensive in our 1v1s earlier and that's not what I'd expect from her. she seemed quick to jump to conclusions and some of her points were kind of icky
19. Cephrir <- the associative with Casso I mentioned earlier. also the way he's subtly pushing along my wagon is giving me weird vibes

I'm not sure who the last scum could be. probably Brian bc his lurking is off from what I know of him, and then I have no fkin idea 0.0

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Pie, are you basing your read on Sakura off of meta? If so, can you link a game where you felt she was less defensive in a 1v1? Was the purpose of your opening attack on Sakura to gauge her defensiveness and reaction to pressure? If so, what about her posts made you back off initially? Also, do you have any completed scum games of yours that you can link me to? I would also like to hear the reasons for your townread on Generic. Is it still based on 445?

[pieguyn]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=34161 Sakura was scum and we 1v1'ed. she was quick to write it off as a misunderstanding

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=31371 Sakura was town. we kept 1v1'ing and even after I incorrectly deduced she was scum she was still fighting
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/160098 offsite. Sakura was town and idr exactly what happened in this game 0.0

my scumgames
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32348 although I played pretty bad in this one
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=32209
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/157876 offsite

my Generic read originally came from 445 and nothing he's done after then made me question my read on him. I feel he's making really good points and asking good questions. p much all of 445 I felt was right on the money to the point where I have difficulty believing it could come from a scum pov, and there were more posts similar to that later on

[pieguyn]

are you still having doubts about Casso?

if answering this breaks the truce you had with him feel free to ignore

[pieguyn]

woops forgot this game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=33202
Sakura was town, we 1v1'ed near hte start and she kept fighting me and eventually defeated my points against her

my push on her was to gauge how she reacted to a 1v1 on her, plus I found her reasonless RV weird. originally I backed off bc her logic held up and I saw parallels to the above game. but looking back I'm having doubts bc I remembered she seemed kind of defensive

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Thanks. I'll look through them when I get a chance. I don't have an actual townread on Casso. I hoped that doing something like this would help me quell my paranoia of Nacho and allow us to work together but I am not blown away yet and feel now that it was probably a suboptimal move. I am not sure who I want to see lynched. I have townreads on Tammy and Geists, and I think you and StuffedCrust are very likely town although I'll use the meta to make absolutely sure. I am currently reading the argument between you and Varsoon in Touhou and I see a few parallels. I am not sure which of the remaining 15 players I want lynched. My townbloc formed much slower than I had hoped.

[MC Maraca]

moraca

i liked you last i read, but you and mara not sorting each other has me worried.

You am notice I included them in my 'dog poop scum' comment, the same place I called you adorable.

Look for the compliments and you will find the reads. And besides, she is v/la and cabd is pretending to be her so I let them have their moment while I gently scumread them and look for the interactions with buddies... Geists being one.

I tell you now if geists flips scum mcmaraca is my tunnel of hate straight after. Even down to geists imposing themselves in the arguement with you.

What?

do you really think he can do that good of a job of pretending to be me?