The Brave and the Beautiful 2: Fairy Tales ÔÇô Game Over

[ooba]

Original Roll String: 1d13

1 13-Sided Dice: (12) = 12

[ooba]

The same person I would have voted without the dice!
Not changing my vote .. He is obv-scum ..

Vote: kunkstar7

[ooba]

Kdub is town
Robo is town

Kunstar is scum

[ooba]

Fitz, wagon kunstar with me .. That should get things rolling ..

[ooba]

Given LL's vote
- was not on kunstar
- And avoided the current biggest wagon (Iece)
+
Iece's vote on Fate

I feel confident enough to make an early scum team call of {kunstar, Iece, LL}.

[ooba]

@LL - Why shouldn't I call out scum teams on page 2? On page two, that mild connection was enough for a call-out. I always think in terms of scum-pairings so I'll keep doing this - so if it really irritates you that much, you can keep ignoring my posts ..
Well town wants to move out of RVS as soon as possible - that generally involves joining the biggest wagons .. Another random vote never helps .. Plus timing - I had just asked for a wagon on kunstar - you didn't even comment on it ..

- Robo is town
- Iece's reaction is golden and town
* But I think you have an unrealistic expectation of my scumhunting abilities ever since Greek mythology mafia. "Something sophisticated" on P2?. I mean you said the same thing in [Redacted] too.
* "In other words, I think the town thought process looks for why someone's motives are odd, but the scum one looks for categorical flaws in someone's play." -> Good logic.
- So is Fate

@Fitz: I knew I was going to be wrong than right with a call based on that logic but it wasn't a *lol random* call.

- Kdub's vote on Iece in 71 is odd and gives me scum vibes.

Amrun is town
- After LL's reaction, my thoughts exactly on wanting to meta her.
@Amrun - since you've gone through the games, can you confirm this for me - does LL usually follow up a "that logic is dumb" post with a vote? It is something I remember as LL's town meta but I'm not sure .. i.e I want to see if her not following up that lashing by a vote on me is indicative of scum meta ..

- Kunstar's 83 is funny. ooba, Robo are ridiculous. LLD is not scum. But I'll vote Iece?
- His 92 screams bussing to me.

83: Kunstar
@SpyreX, Lol - Fate and me are scum?
Granted on me not voting Iece, but he had said that he would be busy till tuesday so didn't see the purpose in voting him at that point.

@101: Same town list!

I will join this alliance of awesome!!

Town: Robo, Iece, Fate, Amrun
Null: Kast, ABR, bv
Scum: LL, Kun, Kdub, SpyreX

@107: SpyreX
Granted me on not voting Iece with my first vote but I didn't do that specifically because he said he'll be busy and didn't see the purpose in wagoning somebody who wouldn't respond.
Nice stretch on me-Fate though - Fate didn't vote somebody else after I had asked for a wagon on kunstar.

@Iece: "My actual opinions at this point are that I think ooba, LLD, and you are sketchy."
You think LLD is scum with me after that kind of outburst?

---

Unvote. Vote: LLD

[ooba]

@Iece
Early on was more RVS - thought a wagon on him would be good.
Now it's because of 83 where he comments on three people but votes for another person shows some *cognitive dissonance* as SpyreX would call it. (surpirsed he hasn't called out kunstar for this though) .. Plus 92 gives me bussing vibes ..

@Kdub - it was for that reaction. More akin to a "I can't believe you caught me for such a stupid reaction". The meta thing is more confirmation.. I'll reconsider if it comes back in the negative ..
Regarding Iece, his reactions\defense seem town to me ..

@SpyreX - the fact that you indicate I choose LL, Iece over Fate seems to indicate we are scumbuddies? Or maybe I just made that leap because Iece's posts seem to indicate Fate's actions towards me are not genuine ..

@LL's claim
- Testable so not today's lynch

I don't like Iece's 145 - reaction to the claim .. (this continues in 164)

@Kast
Yes - I am moving it ..

183 - No.

194 - Fate makes a good note on her making an avatar bet when she has what looks like a verifiable & power role. But lynching her is a suboptimal move ..

201 - LL's reaction to the shot is scummy. Just because SpyreX was

your

town read doesn't make it a bad shot.

I approve of the shot. I also don't approve of any clarifications.

---

Unvote. Vote: Kdub

- Don't like his attacks on Iece.
- Think he is scum with kunstar

[ooba]

@Ooba-
If you think Kdub is scum with Kunkstar, how about a vote on Kunkstar?

Individually, Kdub is much more scummier than Kunkstar. His attack on Iece + the FOS on fitz vs well the post where Kun voted for Iece. I'll stay here for the time being.

@Robo, Fate
LLD is not the lynch for today.

@BV,@Kunk - Fate is vla at goofbash and has more posts than both of you combined .. You gotta step up the posting ..

[ooba]

@Kunk: Those are the reasons.

TvT, T&T?

[ooba]

@Kunk: Those are the reasons.

BS, you were calling me scum before I made that mistake.

The "Well, well, well" part looked weird and I thought a wagon on you would be informative. Thought I spotted a mild Iece-LL-you connection - called that out to gauge reactions .. Scum read per se only after 83/92 ..

[ooba]

The reason I was twitching at Iece's "Town vs. Town" comment on his own fight with Fitz was that it didn't feel to me like

Iece was treating Fitz like a townie

. It just felt weird having Iece say that, especially after Amrun had come out and said it.

Well, I went through the wall - Iece wasn't treating fitz like scum ..

Two points regarding (a) similarity of reactions (b) Current scumhunting for you and Kdub ..
(a) After the SpyreX death, both of you were like ...

The person who shot SpyreX claims now, or is labeled as scum forever.

If nobody claims it, I'll assume it came from scum, and in that case...

In fact - even kunkstar displays this behavior ..

...so likely it's a scumvig and I see no reason to bother with it further as they won't reveal themselves.

(b) Right now it looks like you're playing in "anything which can stick" scumhunting mode
-- You with the *twitch* on Iece
-- Kdub with the case of Fitz (P-edit: You can add "Something feels off with Kast" here too)
Kdub, if your aim was to really ..

I decided

lay low

for a bit after SpyreX's death and

see how players would react.

That directly contrasts with your actions.
#214 - You FOS fitz in the very first post after SpyreX's death
#226 - You speculate that it's mostly a scum kill & "I will have more to say on the implications of SpyreX's death"

If your real aim was to scumhunting by observing reactions to the claim, you wouldn't have said anything and certainly wouldn't have tipped possible scum-off by either FOSing them or even saying "I will have more to say on it, but I want to see what you guys say first" .. It looks like scum-trying-to-scumhunt than actual townie scumhunting ..

[ooba]

*ebwop: reactions to the death

[ooba]

Laying low =/= not posting anything whatsoever. …. If I were scum, why would I lie about wanting to observe reactions?

I wasn't implying you shouldn't have posted anything. My point is that if you really want to observe reactions, you wouldn't hint at it in thread or tip people off because then their reactions won't be genuine.

Confirmation-bias might be working overtime here but the more chunk posts, the more sure I am of the Kdub-kunk pairing. I mean he seems to ignore all your posts even though you're his top suspect.

---

I agree with the Kdub wagon, and a also highly suspicious of HavingFitz.

Kdub, time to claim ...

[ooba]

Brb ..

[ooba]

Went through the previous game to get an idea of RC's idea of balance (Amazing flavor btw)

Town:
- Bodyguard who kills attacker and also dies
- One-shot Sensor + Two-shot vote redirector
- Can change forms - each with different ability: Pardon+Protect (or) Voyeur+Track
- Beloved Princess
- one-shot Unstoppable Vig + one-shot Vig with 66% chance of hitting target (Plus an independent 33% chance of hitting somebody else)
- Two shot Grapple (Makes target untargetable and opens up QT. Also makes target a clone to all night actions) + Two-shot Hider with no restrictions
- Two-shot make someone lose their vote next day + Passive: Require +1 to lynch + Can teach passive to someone
- Investigate + One-shot Grave rob (gives you one-shot of dead person)
- Steal ability as one-shot from player and use it same night + Two-shot Neighbourizer

Scum
Common abilities:
- Mafia kill
- Could choose to be untargetable one night night (cannot use any other abilities that night)
Individual:
- Two-shot Rolecop + Janitor
- Day: Reduces lynch threshold of everyone to L-1 + Two shot: Make someone lose their vote next day
- Roleblocker plus Framer in same action [except that this person can choose to be untargetable only when making the kill]

Town has a lot of roles which can screw it over if used incorrectly
Scum has a roles which help scum (not good-to-claim\confirmable type town roles)

Kdub is town for that claim. Given the previous game, I'd say LL is also prob-town for that claim ..

Unvote

Unvote; Vote: kunkstar

Thoughts on having Kdub test his shit on LLD's? Wish I didn't suspect them both. Can't see any other plan that does not involve having at least one person claiming an active ability.

And the chance that two town roles may die with one shot? No I think the best plan is Kdub choosing his target on his own.

Vote: kunkstar

[ooba]

Guys. I think LLD is town, or watcher/tracker is a faked role. I've decided.

I read this as "LLD is either town or fakeclaiming scum"?

Also, I've given this some thought,

I propose a mass-claim at this juncture.

[ooba]

It's worth noting that some of the scrutiny RC's modding received recently may mean that this game has a different kind of set-up.

It's not "It's going to be similar to last setup so it's breakable" .. It's more intuitive and I have a plan ..

@Fate: LL not happening today ..

[ooba]

@LL: You'll have to ask Fate this ..

P-edit: Link please?

[ooba]

Fair enough.

Vote: LLD

[ooba]

Also, I've given this some thought,

I propose a mass-claim at this juncture.

Are you still in favor of this in light of Fate's claim about LL?

Nope - not with the 1-1 ..

@ABR - Kdub not happening today..

[ooba]

Commuter is the exact fakeclaim I had for one for the three scum according to what I thought the setup was! (I had it as Tinkerbell but w/e)

Massclaim please - I can find all the scum - I also have a plan!!!

[ooba]

I don't see massclaim happening.

I'm partial claiming now

.. One of my abilities allows me to make sure

LLD cannot be killed tonight

- Can't be roleblocked\redirected in any way.

So Kdub can target LLD

. If both are town, should have two investigative results tomorrow.

Also,

Unvote. Vote: Kunkstar

[ooba]

Claim Analysis

Kdub -> Motivates -> LL
LL was not informed of the two actions implies
- Kdub was roleblocked
- Kdub lied..
- LL is lying about role\not receiving actions

About what I claimed before the hammer .. The fact that LL had to be corrected on this makes me think she's telling the truth.(Wouldn't be angry at RC though - a deadline is a deadline). Plus kills Robo kill seems to fit pattern of scum who are scared of a watch

- Went through Blackest night Mafia. Like Kdub said, both Redirector and Roleblocker appear higher on the resolution list.
- Resolution order comes into picture only when there is paradox. (Like Motivator on Roleblocker who roleblocks the motivator). Otherwise can see the motivator as being RB-able. I don't see Kdub scum talking about the action resolution point of Blackest Night.
- On a side note: a dying-motivator who can be redirected by scum for an extra kill seems overpowered for scum. So Kdub is unredirectable or scum do not have a redirector.

Initially went with the theory that scum roleblocked Kdub but his point about a RB on LL being better is valid. So it wasn't a scum roleblock. (And scum mostly don't have a roleblocker too - otherwise not RBing either Kdub or LL seems like suboptimaloplay)

Kill Analysis

Robo - Unwitting Obstructor - clearly points to a Roleblock. "Unwitting" looks like random roleblocker
Flavor - The Queen from snow white was obviously the killer. (@Amrun - you went through flavor but didn't make he connect?)

So Kdub was mostly blocked by random Robo. At least that's the theory I am going with now.

---

P-edit: I was going to vote bv too. PoE of the lynching wagon - ABR wanted a massclaim which seems proton.
kunkstar7 [1] – bv310, Fate, Amrun, Albert B. Rampage, Lady Lambdadelta, Iecerint, ooba

Vote: Bv

[ooba]

LL not knowing what exactly I claimed: 415, 417. Doesn't look faked.

Kdub on RB-Redirector-Motivator action resoution
Blackest Night Actions

[ooba]

Been thinking of this again:
- Kdub's 440 - makes a lot of sense about Motivator not being RB-able\Redirectable - esp. as mods won't like to extend the night and confirm the presence of such abilities.
- Kast is town for 446.

P-edit:

Unvote. Vote: LLD

- Thief made sure the original person could not use his abilities in B&B1 - so it couldn't have been a robo roleblock
- I am now pretty sure scum don't have a roleblock .. I also think we can stop with the MC and finish it tomorrow - I have my reasons for this in case we are wrong about LLD ..

[ooba]

Instead she steals from Robo?

Co-incidentally the person who died? Who's role we can't confirm?

"Obstructor" is definitely roleblocker.

[ooba]

@Iecerint - I like the scumfriend theory.

@Amrun - I don't want to reveal much right now. Let's just say I find it improbable ..

@Fitz - He's not confirmed but my get tells me he's town based on claim+play ..

[ooba]

Also I think we should hold off lynching until Sathoris catches up .. A fresh set of eyes is good and also gives that slot a chance to comment ..

[ooba]

I'm still fine with a MC

Ooba apparently isn't for LOLSECRETS

Trust me on this - I definitely prefer a MC tomorrow .. Unless someone has something relevant to claim to the LLD situation, I think we should not claim anything further today ..

[ooba]

I Salthusis saying he doesn't want to put her at L-1 until D3 or until real-life tomorrow?

RL

[ooba]

I focused mainly on LLD and will look into the rest more tomorrow when I've had some rest.

I was actually waiting for you to come back on this. Otherwise, I think we should move ahead with the LLD lynch ..

[ooba]

Kdub, hammer please ...

[ooba]

Following this order for the MC please:

– Amrun (Have you claimed everything?)

– havingfitz
– Sathoris
– Iecerint ☠ ☠
– Albert B. Rampage
– Fate ☠ ☠
– Kast
– Kdub
– ooba

[ooba]

= Scarequotes = Town reaction usually

[ooba]

Following this order for the MC please:

– Amrun (Have you claimed everything?)

– havingfitz
– Sathoris
– Iecerint ☠ ☠
– Albert B. Rampage
– Fate ☠ ☠
– Kast
– Kdub
– ooba

Hmm .. Let's see:
- I wanted to be last
- I had town reads on Kast, Kdub for their actions yesterday
- Town read on Fate
- Rest ordered based on gut plus the fact that Iece wanted to go after fitz

[ooba]

Yeah and I would have slotted Amrun after Kast but she already claimed so ...

[ooba]

If you don't have role related reasons for the claim order, then I think we should just popcorn it, with exceptions like Iec wanting to claim after fitz (provided the players who request exceptions can explain when the claim).

Sure.
- I'd still like to be last though. (Role related)
- Also I think it makes sense to keep the redirector+motivator after other claims - to try and catch people in fake claims

[ooba]

I have no reason to observe one player's claim order...especially when it has me going 2nd. Popcorning claims is a perfectly reasonable request. If you (Fate) can convince Amrun that there is a good reason for you to not go next then she can pick someone else if she wants to.

Fate obviously wants to go after somebody but doesn't want to tip that person off. My order seems to fulfill that reuirement. At least thats what i make of it.
Worst case scenario - he's scum and wont be able to justify it properly.
Please fitz - let's get on with it ..

[ooba]

Fitz, which fairy tale are you?

[ooba]

I'm so in tune with nature with my heavenly singing that I can woo (aka control) birds and mammals to do my bidding. With this ability, I can direct them to stop bad things from happening...normally focused on one player but with a one-shot ability affecting all.

And what you meant by this is that you're a normal jailkeeper and that's your only ability?

[ooba]

Why didn't fitz fullclaim with his actions too??

[ooba]

I'm so in tune with nature with my heavenly singing that I can woo (aka control) birds and mammals to do my bidding. With this ability, I can direct them to stop bad things from happening...normally focused on one player but with a one-shot ability affecting all.

And what you meant by this is that you're a normal jailkeeper and that's your only ability?

I can target my power towards individual players and on one occasion I can protect all. So the one shot for all would be my second power.

So you're a
- Normal Jailkeeper who can target one player each night to protect and roleblock them
- And have a one-shot mass JK?

[ooba]

I'm the witch of the west or the east or some bullshit like that, my ability is to send anonymous messages to players or post an anonymous announcement, I'm not allowed to reveal who I am.

I never used my ability, it's scummy as fuck

OK Iecerint, full claim.

How does your picture look?

[ooba]

Which Witch are you, and what is your rolename?

I'm about to post my flavor unless Ooba objects...

Go ahead .. I'm more curious than patient anyway .. Don't wan this stalled for another 12 hours

[ooba]

I am going to claim my action. I enhanced Iecerint last night. The fact that he didn't receive even a hint of flavor about me is troubling. Even if he were roleblocked, I would suspect (based on the first B&B game) that he should have gotten some clue.

As I said, I got no flavor from the mod either night.

Well since you've claimed action - may as well claim character now .. Only you, me & kast left ..

[ooba]

Sorry - slipped my mind ..
Also no voting till everyone's claimed. (Meaning Fitz, kast and me) - I have some thoughts on the setup ..

[ooba]

lets push this fate mislynch to the limit. justice for LLD at last.

Not when there were hidden scum "Bring everyone's lynch to L-1" mechanics in the last game ..

[ooba]

How'd fakeclaims work in the old game? I think Kerrigan just had Kerrigan and so on, right?

Yup - although I expected scum to have fakeclaims in this one - I have my doubts now .. Anyway don't want to reveal much until kast claims too ..

@Fate: You got to stop doing this stuff if you're town. It's not that hard to paraphrase properly from the PM!

[ooba]

@Fate: While claiming\paraphrasing is secondary to scumhunting, I say you shouldn't give a quarter to scum to attack you on that front for inconsistencies. Not only are you setting up to get lynched in a game full of weak townies, you're also giving scum an incentive to weak claim.

IIRC, I think some of RC's flavor has implied that there are male characters in this game and

that Ursula is in this game.

Where did you get this from?

[ooba]

@Fitz
- Describe your picture to me
- Still have to claim actions
- "There is a chance someone observing me (or whatever) could have noticed wings." - Why did you say this when Iece asked you about wings?

@Sathoris
- Describe your picture to me
- What is your role description? e.g Fitz has claimed "Nature Whisperer"

@ABR, Fate, Amrun
- What is your role description? e.g Iece has claimed "Wayward Seeker"

[ooba]

Also, claim your ability names, please.

^This.

Kast, where are you?

[ooba]

Lol I really want to post something but am being patient till Kast posts ..

[ooba]

Hmm ABR definitely wants to get lynched today - I just can't figure out why ..

[ooba]

Cinderella
Servant Princess

Abilities:

(Flavor attributes both to my fairy godmother)
Mass-Roleblock (one-shot)
Bulletproof

Actions:

(thoughts at each point)
#14: After analyzing the first game, I was set that one of the scum have an investigate ability fakeclaim - also thought the other two would be a scum RB disguised as JK and a role like Commuter\Neighbourizer. So thought a mass claim was a good claim at that point.

#16,#20: Had an inkling of a plan where we massclaim and I claim that both investigative roles cannot die. Then use mass roleblock on N1 and catch scum fakeclaiming hopefully.

#21: Realized a mass claim wasn't happening. But thought I could use this to our advantage. So claimed I could keep both kdub and LLD alive.
Worst case scenario - both were town, scum kill LLD for two kills and I get lynched on D2.
But thought my earlier insistence on "having a plan" would make them think I was telling the truth. Plus two investigative actions if both were town so thought it was a good tradeoff for the risk.

N1: Do nothing

D2: Didn't want a massclaim on D2 because I was planning to use the mass claim on N2 to possibly catch people in fakeclaims

N2: Mass roleblock

Thoughts on all claims coming up.

[ooba]

I am making a big post on claims - no quick voting please - I mean one person has claimed scum in thread ..

[ooba]

1) We are dealing with two anti-town factions here
- Scum teams of two (one day killing and one night killing) - one a witch scum team comprised of Ursula (Sea witch) and TWWOTW, another scum team composed of the Red queen and the queen from snow witch. So ya - Queens vs Witches.
- Or a scum team of three plus SK. So it's the Snow white Queen SK (who wants to be the most powerful of them all) vs Witches scum team comprising of Ursula, TWWOTW & Maleficent.
Reasoning:
Far too many roles to deal with protection\kill blockage
- SpyreX - Flavor points to protective role ("but all they knew of medical procedure they had learned from her")
- Kunkstar - Commuter\Hider
- Robo - Roleblocker. (Obstructor wording plus Amrun's claim)
- My own massrole block plus BP

2) ABR claimed scum in thread. I just can't understand why.
Flavor his game clearly points to Snow white queen and Ursula being in the game. So it's a clear good vs evil background. TWWOTW is definitely evil.
"The Wicked Witch of the West is a fictional character and the

most significant antagonist

in L. Frank Baum's children's book The Wonderful Wizard of Oz."
A definitely evil character who's not even a miller? Nope - not happening. But I can't realize why he didn't claim whatever fakeclaim he had. Could be a tinkerbell claim which he avoided due to this.
"Commuter is the exact fakeclaim I had for one for the three scum according to what I thought the setup was! (I had it as Tinkerbell but w/e)" said ooba on D1.
Can't really fathom the reasons why but this is a scum claim.

3) Fitz fakeclaimed his abilities
- Look above at Spyrex, Robo roles - Doc? and a Roleblocker
- Look at my role - Mass roleblock
No way town has a normal JK, let alone a mass JK

4) Sathoris
2 Town BPs - Unlikely but possible depending on setup. I can see him as a town BP in a 2 scum team setup. If its an SK-3 scum team setup, I would say he's most prob. SK.

5) Beloved Princess for Kast's claim doesn't make sense. Red riding hood is never a princess flavorwise. Could be a lolwifom addition to the setup. Damn bastardly if there are two anti-town elements though.

6) Where the hell is Snow white?? And tinkerbell? I can't get into in-depth reasons as to why (since RC says it's against the spirit of the game if I use that info and I respect the mod's call) - but these are roles I expected in the game - at least as fakeclaims .. Confusing ..

I haven't even gone to actions yet. Think someone had it right when they said RC is basing it based on timing of actions sent - which adds another layer of complexity to analyzing that so I'm going to sleep now and come back to it tomorrow.

Right now - Fitz\ABR are scum for sure. Also need to read D1 again to see if I can spot pairings for them.

[ooba]

@ ooba...my claims are legit. Re: "shield" (~jk) as I type this I do not recall what Fate's PR is but if it something that he should have seen a result on he can confirm. The one-shot "nothing bad happens" was not a mass "jk." as anyone who did have a night action N2 occur can attest to. It only prevents bad things from happening which as far as I can see...worked.

- I am a mass-role blocker (which effectively means all actions are blocked on that particular night)
- You've claimed a one-shot No kill night power
So effectively amongst the both of us - we can stop scum from any NKs for 2 entire nights? I can see your power along with mine if we have 2 scum teams and the Beloved princesses in the setup. But ..

- Spyrex's ability is definitely protective from flavor and Robo is a roleblocker. You have my BP (and possibly Sathoris as well). Add Kunk who was a Commuter\Hider. Your JK normal makes it too many protective\blocking roles for town.
- Also the fact that you didn't claim actions when you were supposed to and waited after Fate claimed to claim a N1 block on him weighs against you

---

Also can Kast, Kdub, Sathoris claim their ability names please. (Sorry if you claimed this already and I missed it)

[ooba]

@Fitz - Also want you to ask RC if your one-shot No-kill night has been used up ..

[ooba]

ooba, when did you submit your action during N2?

My ability is just called "Enhance".

Within 1.5 hours of the D2 flip ..

[ooba]

@Kast
"In terms of mechanics balance,

with what's been claimed

, I doubt town has to deal with 2 scum teams."
Here's what your claim list misses out on
- Kunk claimed 2 shot Hider+Commuter
- SpyreX is a protective role from flavor
Also, if I was a SK in this game, would have just kept quiet about my BP, given the meta on BP claims equaling SK automatically.

---

@Iece
- Regarding tinkerbell, at the start of the game I made a list of all possible roles in the game depending on whether the fairy tale character was sexy enough or not (Pics and stuff). After reading the first game, I tried reasoning what powers RC would give to scum and the corresponding fakeclaims. This was what I thought the fakeclaims were at that time:
Little red riding hood - Cop
Rapunzel - JK
Tinker Bell - Commuter
- Reason I'm not pushing your lynch now is that if you're scum
a) You're lying about your ability. In which case, you would have made up for result for today and got caught.
b) If you're an actual rolecop kinda of scum role - you would have welcome the chance to semi-confirm yourself with N1 results. At worst, you could have made up flavor on N1 about people who had claimed before you instead of going "tinkerbell" which if you're scum - you know will put the spotlight on you.
The 10% also ties in with your ability not working properly on one GF scum. (So one false positive amongst 12 targets = wrong 8.3% of the time = Right 91.66% of the time). So yeah, much better choices for the lynch today.
- Yes, I wanted to claim last because of my mass roleblock.

---

More thoughts on why ABR claimed scum in thread
a) Because of me
- Clearly tinkerbell is not there in the setup since no pro-town player has claimed the role
- Also Snow white not being there is also weird. Given that
-- I said "I expected tinkerbell to the commuter fakeclaim"
-- I was pushing for a massclaim
Scum thought I was a role who had inside info on their fakeclaims. So decided to hedge bets; One person claims the best fakeclaim given to them, ABR takes a risk with claiming actual villain name cause of "Why would scum do that" WIFOM and make up another name. (Giselle is the claim which sounds out there).
b) Because by claiming scum in thread and getting lynched - give the impression that scum don't have fakeclaims - because one of their partners has a kickass fakeclaim.
c) He's a role like Bomb - so should probably have second most scummiest candidate hammer him just in case.
d) One of the scum have a governor ability - seems broken in a mini but you never know.

---

768 is an opportunistic scum attempt to get BP lynched or yet another attempt to get himself lynched. I am definitely voting ABR today ..

[ooba]

Something I noticed on ability names - hence the question to everyone on that. Also should note that people who claimed later could have noticed that ability names - lack flavor ..

Green Zone

My abilities names are what I claimed in thread - Mass roleblock and Bulletproof.

My ability is called

Investigate.

My abilities names are Switch for the busdrive, and Redirect

Simply: One-Shot Bulletproof.

My ability is just called "Enhance".

Neutral Zone

"Steal from" is pretty self-explanatory, but okay. Steal from and Befriend.

My Beloved Princess ability is just called that.
My Bus-Driving ability is Delivery.

Red Zone

Wicked Witch of the West
Abilities: Crystal Ball, Clear as Glass

My ability names are -

Focused friends

which is applied with

Shield: player

and

Oh no they don't!

which is applied with

Let's play nice.

[ooba]

ABR, is your character sexed up in your image?

RC has threatened a modkill on picture discussions to me in PM when I checked with him.

I've found out ABR's pic but we should stay off this topic.

[ooba]

- Listed Kast there because of "Delivery" which has a flavor element to it

- How is sexed-up an indication as to whether he's leaning scum or town? I expect all villains to be sexed up too (going by the previous game) .. Read the part about the musical - could have bought it if ABR was a miller .. Plus he didn't add a LOLwifom role last game so I wonder why RC mod would start now. Plus it's not like we've run out of sexy fairy tales for him to use a villain.

- The daykill was why I theorized that there might be two scum teams with one day killing and one night killing (or) SK + scum team. Point 2 could be explained by the daykill hitting one of the BPs. Wasting a lone one-shot before any claims seems like a sub-optimal choice. For example - killing LLD who claimed watcher later in the day would have been a much better choice.

[ooba]

I think I've found the entire scum team (going with 3 plus a possible one SK as the setup) ..

Big post incoming ..

[ooba]

On Scum

The scum team is ABR\Fitz\Kast.

ABR
- Claimed scum. TWWOTW is definitely evil.
- Plus play - Call it a vibe on my part

Fitz
- 1vs1 with me if Kast is scum; Without the BP, there's no way we have two town mass blockers
- Claimed normal role also makes town too overpowered on blocking\protection
- The entire delay in claiming + claiming his actions with a delay
- Iece's tinkerbell result

Kast
- Should have seen this before - stupid of me. Has anyone played in a game where self busdrives were allowed? A self busdrive = effective odd-nigth Unkillable+Chance of redirecting kill on kast to scum. Again makes town too overpowered on blocking\protection.
- Also "Beloved princess" claim for little red riding hood who was not a princess. Also both his role title and ability name are "Beloved princess"?
- Some chronology
632: Fate claims one-shot busdrive and one-shot redirect
746: Comments on all the claims. Hypes up the 1vs1 on Amrun and Fate even though he gives two reasons below for it not to be the case. "Amrun and Fate are not in a guaranteed 1v1, but it does seem likely"
He's lists it at the top but does not comment on the fact that Fate also claimed a similar busdrive role. In fact I tried to work out how the claimed (ooba drive Kast) + (Kast drive Kdub) would work but no such curiosity on his front.
751: Amrun talks about "Likelihood of two town redirectors? Low. I believe Kast over Fate."
763: Kast comments on two town BDs and votes Fate after someone else has pointed it out for him. "I prefer Fate, since she has the most ties and since her claim most directly conflicts with what I know." - Yeah no mention of this earlier in 746 ..

Kast ~ Fitz
Kast makes 8 points about the setup in post 746.
- Points 1,2,3,5a,7 are all fitz defense.
- 5b doesn't say Iece or Fitz are lying. Only Iece or tinkerbell is lying.
- 6 talks about how Iece's N2 result could actually support Fitz's claim
Again brings up the point - why so much Fitz commenting and so little of Fate whose claimed a similar role?
255: Mild defense of Fitz

ABR ~ Fitz
ABR wanted Iece to claim before Fitz (614).

Kast ~ ABR
- 768 is a weak bus. Town wouldn't want to risk lynching a claimed BP when there are other scum around. Scum would also know they can never get a BP lynched so wouldn't try.
- Kast sees the ABR villain point in 746 - just doesn't push it far enough IMO. He's talking about ABR proving himself via his ability in 763. Although he says he can see a ABR lynch - I don't see the townie passion in spotting a liar or at least trying to figure things out with TWWOTW.

Plus all three are in the neutral\red end zone for flavor ability name claiming.

Probable night actions
- Scum roleblocker blocked Kdub N1. The fact that RC was damn strict about deadlines on N1 makes me think LLD's hunch was right - blocking Kdub makes sure LLD doesn't get two actions and also makes Kdub look suspicious
- Scum roleblocker blocked Iece N2. Just a hunch based on the fact that fitz waited till Iece\Fate both claimed their actions + results.
- Scum roleblocker & N1 killer cannot be ABR (since he was blocked by Amrun) - so Fitz\Kast - mostly fitz

On SK

Spotted this in the MD

The Brave and the Beautiful 2, which would be a follow up to the Brave and the Beautiful, which was a lot of fun to mod and to create the setup and write flavor for. Last time, I did a lot of the design and all of the modding myself (thanks to SK and Plum for help with the setup, and to SK for co-modding), but this time I would probably want to bring somebody else on to add their own unique touches to it. The game would will probably still be a mini, but with 13 players this time around (

would likely be a 3:1:9 setup, in fact

).

Reinforces my read that there are two anti-town factions; particularly a SK. My money is on Sath if there is one. RC could have changed his mind about the setup but to be re-evaluated based on kills\investigations.

Town: Fate, Amrun, Kdub, Iece
Probable SK: Sath
Scum: ABR, Kast, Fitz

The Plan

Anyway don't want to lynch Kast today since the repercussions are high if I am wrong. So lynch ABR ..

Unvote. Vote: ABR

My suggested Plan for tonight
- If Fitz is "telling the truth", he should still have his one-shot and Iece can probably investigate without getting killed tonight. If anybody is killed, Fitz is lying.. (This puts a scum team with Fitz in the undesirable position of Kill & be lynched)
Also because of this and my previous theorizing with ABR, I'd like
- Fitz to hammer
- And send in his so-called night action first as soon as he hammers. That way there can be no chances for him claiming that scum roleblocked his mass No-kill action.
- Kast should busdrive himself with somebody else. (Anybody except Fitz.) Iece should investigate Kast.
- Amrun I'd like you to steal from fitz. If he's town and telling the truth, his mass ability was sent first and will anyway take precedence. If he's scum - he's probably the roleblocker and you stealing his ability will make sure Iece can investigate.
- Fate should still have the redirect. I would suggest redirecting someone other than Iece\Kast\Amrun.
- Kdub enhances somebody if ABR flips scum - otherwise it's too risky to enhance someone in the night.

---

@Fate, Amrun - I'd like you to ask RC if you still have your one-shot (second shot in Amrun's case) intact. However do not answer till Fitz answers the same question.

[ooba]

- And send in his so-called night action first as soon as he hammers. That way there can be no chances for him claiming that scum roleblocked his mass No-kill action.

I'm pretty sure his claimed mass no-kill is one-shot...

Or did I just assume that?

It is. But my mass roleblock was probably the fastest action sent. Limited shots shouldn't be wasted if they were blocked.
- Which is why I asked Fitz to confirm with RC
- Which is why I asked Fate & Amrun to confirm with RC but reply after Fitz replies.

[ooba]

@Kdub
If Fitz is town, my plan gives us one more night of No kills and checks by Amrun\Iece
If Fitz is scum, it puts him at a tough spot because - it's a choice of kill and be lynched tomorrow for it (Unless they plan to hit one of the BPs but RC hinted that flavor will make it evident if I lose my BP)

@Kast
"I'm also curious why Ooba's analysis isn't taking into account any possibilities for CONFIRMING townies."
My plan involves confirming your sellf busdrive? (since if you're scum, you're lying about that)
If you mean ABR's ability - I can see both scum\town having the ability to post a message at daybreak - Proof of ability =\= Proof of alignment.

I'll be V\LA for the next 48 hours.

Hope to see ABR lynched by then.

[ooba]

@Fitz: "ooba is blowing smoke up our asses with the mass roleblock"
- Amrun has claimed she got no reply.
- Iece did not get a result for his action on D2
- Kdub's motivation did not go through on Iece on D2
Only the first has an alternative explanation. (Amrun redirected by Fate to someone with passive abilities on whom thief doesn't work).

@Fate: Kast - If town, cannot die today (Self busdrive). Also WTF are you doing? If you're irritated with RC so much, replace out ..

@Kdub - Reg. 859 - Fitz claimed a "one-shot No kill" power - Not a mass block. (only his normal power is a JK.)

---

Also more flavor clues ..

When Dorothy and her companions were sent by the Wizard to destroy her, the Witch attacked them with a pack of wolves, a murder of crows, a

swarm of bees

and a group of Winkie warriors.

I'm so in tune with nature with my heavenly singing that I can woo (aka control) birds and mammals to do my bidding. With this ability, I can direct them to stop bad things from happening

So Giselle is the fakeclaim for The Wicked Witch of the West.
- Therefore ABR's fakeclaim given to more important scum roleblocker Fitz because I had already speculated tinkerbell was a fakeclaim
- And ABR decided he'd claim scum and use the "I wouldn't have claimed that if scum" argument

The

swarm of birds

prevents action against (or by) my protected.

Note the usage: "Swarm" of birds. (Compare with the bolded part from the wiki). It's usually a flock of birds..

Also, from play (just limited to posts after my case)
- Both scum trying to paint my ABR case as purely "lol setup spec". (ABR - 808, 844;Fitz - 831)
-- Don't even try to answer the questions raised in that post - like Why did ABR want Iece to claim before Fitz did? Why didn't Fitz full claim in the first place?
- Contradictions by ABR: 804 vs 827

---

Also, since Fitz apparently cannot "confirm" his mass protect...

New plan

Lynch Fitz
Kast hammers and sends in his self busdrive on someone else as the first action
Iece targets Kast

Amrun steals from ABR
- If scum, prevents him from using his scum abilities
- If town, can confirm his claimed messaging ability
(If Fitz flips town, you can change your action to me)

Fate redirects anybody but Iece\Amrun

Kdub motivates based on the flip

Initially I could envisage a setup where I was wrong about the scum team call and both mine and Fitz's abilities could co-exist with Kast town but the scum signs of ABR\Fitz are so clear that I'm willing to take a risk here. (I'm nearly sure about Kast too but that can be reevaluated)

Unvote. Vote: Fitz

[ooba]

Kast not hammering doesn't change much - he should still self-busdrive so that Iece can verify .. Plan stands ..

---

Also I predict Fitz will flip the Queen from Snow white because Iece spotted a guy with an axe when targeting him ..

---

Also was just going through flavor again. It points to Ursula being on the LLD wagon (although should be taken with a pinch of salt) ..

"Don't lie to me! I can see right through your innocent little face!"

growled one of the partakers in this particular verbal altercation

"That's not what she says." growled the same woman, pointing to one of her slippery eels, whose eyes flashed as he eyed the girl up and down with a baleful stare.

Lady Lambdadelta [6] – Kast, Amrun, ooba, Iecerint, Sathoris, Fate

Thought I should get this out there in case scum have an unstoppable kill ..

[ooba]

- ABR's ability use looks legit (esp. the last paragraph on Fate's fate)
- I think the deal with the first para is that RC decided the best way to work it into the kill sequence is through the killer's thoughts. Otherwise, directly implicating ABR in flavor seems stupid
- Killer flavor clues: "something sharp had penetrated her abdomen and slashed through her midsection" - Nothing useful to go on

ABR why was your post of the day edited by RC?

Claim Order

- ABR (has already claimed)
- Kast
- Iece
- Kdub
- Fate

Based on my reads - scummy people first (ABR\Kast) - Motivator\Redirector last in case they can catch scum in lies

[ooba]

Why the hell am I still your strongest townread ooba >____>

- My strongest townread would be Iece. {Setup spec seems genuine + Tinker bell result on scum}

- Townread on you due to vibe based from play
-- You claiming you had a redirect guilty on Amrun, still feeling suspicious of her after I claimed my mass roleblock.
-- The frustration at the setup + all that drunk posting
Both seem genuine and is hard to fake

- Put you later on the list as compared to Iece because you have a redirect

[ooba]

Kast is lying in a wooded area like a princess. Her manner suggests she is highborn. I sense her dreams are nice; she's not having nightmares -- I get a special note of this for some reason.

I notice that she has a red cloak, a picnic basket, and black leather boots. I see things in the basket, but they confuse me, so I ignore them and don't touch them.

The first part reminds me of Sleeping beauty - highborn princess who is dreaming and lying in a wooded area. (Image)
The second part - esp. with the basket filled with unknown stuff - reminds me of BB Hood

Rest of stuff coming up as soon as I'm able to figure it out .

[ooba]

Thought about this - but can't narrow it down with any certainty yet. What I have for now:
- Fitz is a traitor
- Therefore my theory that ABR gave fitz his fakeclaim and claimed scum is wrong
- So you'd expect him to have a fakeclaim & can't see motivation for not claiming that (other than the one above)
ABR is town.

I'll come back to this after a nap in the morning.

[ooba]

So if Kast actually was blocked, as appears to be the case, then what happened with my action? Scum are unlikely to have two roleblockers, right?

Initially I thought - redirection to somebody else but then if they had redirection - why not redirect you to whoever they are killing?

[ooba]

ABR, why the unvote?

[ooba]

- Iece, ABR are town (Don't understand ABR's unvote but w\e) - Gut + theory below. Plus everybody else except Kdub wants an ABR lynch …

- Two roleblock claims? (Kast, Kdub) - At least one is scum.

- Fate's action is weird. First, the best use of a redirector is trying to redirect scum kill onto other scum. Or if I was using it on Iece, I would have used the redirect on Iece to anybody but Kast - If it's Iece scum - he would have to lie about his ability and we just caught him. Gut tells me he's town but night action does not make sense at all...

- I never thought town would have two investigative roles - which is the reason why I thought scum had one as fakeclaim in the beginning. But Iece is strong town read to me this game. "Flavor messages were extremely helpful to town in the previous game (almost overpoweringly so)" got me thinking.
A setup with Iece as flavor cop and
-- ABR as a false negative (Wicked Witch of the West)
-- Fitz as a false positive (Tinkerbell)
-- And one\two more GF\SK scum who also are investigation-immune or a scum flavor framer makes sense
Just putting this out there so that Iece's results aren't taken as sacrosanct. (And it let's me keep my Kast scum theory)

- Kdub is mostly town (the not wanting to vote ABR part). Sathoris reads as scum for the selective hunting tell.

Up for a Fate lynch today and I think ABR had it right when he said Fate\Kast.

Unvote. Vote: Fate

[ooba]

Iece,
- I wouldn't have taken on Fitz in the 1vs1 yesterday if SK. Plus throwing myself out there for the Kdub-LLD gambit for two watch\track actions is not a risk I would have taken as a SK.
- The scum theory is kinda of a stretch because why the entire reversal when I could have got ABR lynched. (Only universe where this makes sense is the one where Fitz was a traitor who me-ABR knew nothing about, I linked ABR-fitz and got Fitz lynched - even then would have probably pushed for a ABR lynch today and hoped I could make it till the end)

I am not entirely sure on clearing Kast based on the sleep=roleblocked part. Also, w.r.t taking Fitz traitor literally, "obstructor" was a "roleblocker", "curious explorer" = "Track\Watch" so there is a literal connection to names in some cases.

---

Fate - your night action doesn't make sense - as simple as that. It's not just a "poor night action choice". It's one with zero benefit - no situation in which it could have yielded useful results.

Regarding my questioning ABR, the unvote didn't make sense. Nothing there to really change his read, IMO.

Out of the two RB'd players - kast is scum. In fact, initially thought of voting Kast but then decided that the risk was high if I was wrong.

And I voted you because I'm running out of mislynches?
- If you really think Kast-me are scum together
-- I could have easily pushed a lynch on ABR today given that Fitz flipped scum and that theory about fakeclaim swapping looks good
-- Or Sathoris
without having to vote you. (Also as a Kast scumbuddy, I'd want to delay your flip because a town-you would strongly imply a scum-Kast because of the dual busdriver claim.) Plus the "lol he's voting a townread" is nice but I don't feel the need to stick to my old reads\theories as new info comes along.

You're not even trying to scumhunt. Looks more like a last throw of the dice? Thanks for making me feel better about the vote.

[ooba]

5. I think it would be EXTREMELY bastardly if my ability was basically worse-than-useless when I targeted BOTH fitz-scum (where it implied he was Town Tinkerbell) *and* hypo-Kast-scum (where it said he was princess-y and LRRH), especially when the 90% from my role PM implies ~1 person it doesn't work normally on.

Didn't get a chance to reply to this earlier. This is the part where I kinda disagree - your role cop result was accurate on Fitz - he was tinkerbell and that's what you got. So there's at least one person in the game on whom you won't get his role. (90%)

---

Kast is a SK.
- Survivor third party? Lol.
- Way too overpowered if town (Basically he's claiming to be Fate's role + Unkillable)
- Flavor still doesn't make sense
- Plus him agreeing to "Getting confirmed" by Iece might have been a ruse to get himself investigated (Inv-immune SK who returns a fakeclaim as a result to Iece)
I'm just trying to make sense of the absence of a second kill...
N1: ???
N2: Mass-RB
N3: Roleblocked by scum (as per Iece result)
N4: ???

Could be a SK-Joat with a one-shot daykill and one-shot NK arsenal.

Sathoris, you get any flavor from yesterday night?

---

Sathoris would be my choice for the lynch today (should have lynched him yesterday - my mistake). Competing Bulletproof claim with mine - thought it might be possible for us to coexist if Kast is town Beloved Princess but he's not - so Sath is basically bulletproof Mafia. Just want to re-read the game in it's entirety before voting. Btw, Sath, you should claim if you're the SK...

Also, RC - will we get flavor for Kdub's death? - even a minimal one para should do..

Also don't quicklynch before I have my say ..

[ooba]

Last night as I was going to bed I was wishing I were scum this game because I have done an excellent job of lynching town on plausible bases pretty much

every night.

"Every night"?

[ooba]

Sathoris would be my choice for the lynch today (should have lynched him yesterday - my mistake). Competing Bulletproof claim with mine - thought it might be possible for us to coexist if Kast is town Beloved Princess

He's also claimed bulletproof? I can see a setup where we have 2 one-shot bulletproofs with a BP thrown in. But Kast is third party. And hence not a BP.

[ooba]

I understand the also-claimed-bulletproof; I just mentioned it above. What I don't understand is why the presence of other bulletproofs makes a BP more likely.

But I suppose it's that it increases the chances of town getting a free night?

What's a free night - no kill? And you've got it in reverse - I meant a presence of a BP makes one other bulletproof a bit more likely.

[ooba]

@Ooba-
I'm not survivor third party. Misquoting my claim so it is less plausible is silly. I'm a town survivor.

Sorry I saw Survivor and went "Third-Party". Town survivor is just something you come up with to explain a no-kill on you yesterday. (Because if you are town, scum would have hit you). So you are scum. I mean why not claim this yesterday or even before that?

---

IF

there is no SK,

THEN

ABR/Sathoris are the most probable mafiosos.

In both cases, the correct/safe play is to lynch ABR; in the former case, this lets the SK kill the last mafia and mafia shoots at SK (we lynch SK if he is bulletproof), in the latter case, it doesn't matter which order we lynch in.

This is where we disagree. If there is no SK, it's you+Sathoris. (Or you+a very well played Iece as a long shot)

Reg. ABR. Strong town reads on ABR from yesterday ...

Play implications

- All three of you have pushed ABR as a potential lynch. All pushes have been genuine and not indicative of a bus. (Sathoris for the latter part of the day four hunted for a SK (A huge Mafia tell) and said ABR was a most prob SK.)

Flavor implications

- We've already have one flipped scum (Tinkerbell) and two clear indications of the other two scum
-- The Queen from Snow white
-- Ursula from The little mermaid
- So either ABR gave his Giselle fakeclaim to Fitz and decided to use "The Wicked Witch of the West" as a lol-wifom claim to confuse us. (In this universe, scum are Iece-ABR since Iece mentioned the point about the good version of this Witch)
- Note - even in the above - he could have just claimed Tinkerbell as his role which is the less risker move (Iece claimed after him)
- Or the simpler explanation that he's town

Setup implications

- I've already said that Iece's role demands nerfs in the setup. We already have a 2-shot Watcher\Tracker so Iece's role has to be severely limited if town. Fitz was the false positive. ABR was the false negative and we have one more guy for the 10% rule. Therefore if there are three scum, Iece is actually useful in catching just one scum. IMO, a town Iece increases the likelyhood of a town ABR.
- Scum have a roleblocker. (Kdub's claim on N3). ABR is not that roleblocker because his ability was public that night!

---

I guess me\ABR makes sense as a pairing, but like I said - why do all the good work setting up a ABR-Fitz-Kast connection on D3 to do a 180 later and then say he's town. Going through with the bus-lynch and surviving till the end looked easy (I am a BP so don't have to keep inventing new stuff to explain why I haven't been killed)

[ooba]

Where is the Snow White Queen allusion? You've mentioned that you suspect she'd be here many times, but I thought you were just pointing out that that fairy tale universe isn't represented.

N1 Robo kill. The SW Queen uses a Hunstman.

[ooba]

Yes I agree he would have been hit as SK\Town. What I meant was he would definitely have been killed if he was town - so he' scum (meaning Mafia or SK).

I didn't notice the male characters bit. Plus it's not like I kept the SW queen part of it to myself - if that's what you're implying. (425, 756, 882)

[ooba]

I PM'd him to ask for a PM, and he said it was lost when his browser crashed, but all I would have gotten was flavor + kill, so it seems like I wouldn't have gotten any Watcher-type hints (which surprises me).

Was compiling night actions. What do you mean "flavor+kill" and no "Watcher-type" hints?

[ooba]

Actions (Confirmed, Doubtful, Claimed, My guess at scum actions)

N1

Amrun stolen "RB" from Robo -> RB'd ABR
Robo did nothing because he was robbed
Kdub -> Motivated LLD (Blocked)
LLD -> No acton
Fate -> Busdrive Kast <-> ooba

Fitz -> JK'd Fate (Claimed - My guess is that he was powerless since somebody else is the scum RB)

ooba -> No acton
Sathoris -> No acton
Kast -> Busdrive Kast <-> Kdub
ABR -> (Blocked) Did nothing
Iece -> Investigated Fitz -> Got "Tinkerbell"

Scum -> Blocked Kdub
Scum -> Killed Robo

N2

Mass Roleblock

N3

Kdub -> Motivated Amrun (Blocked)
Fate -> Redirected Iece -> Kast

Amrun -> ??? (Plan was for her to steal from ABR)

Iece -> Investigated Kast -> Got "LRRH"
Kast -> Redirect Fate -> Fate (Blocked)
ooba -> No acton
Sathoris -> No acton
ABR -> Mod Flavor Message ability

Scum -> Blocked Kdub
Scum -> Killed Amrun

N4

Kdub -> ??? (Mostly No action)

ooba -> No acton
Sathoris -> No acton
ABR -> Do nothing
Iece -> Investigate Kdub -> ????
Kast -> Commute

Scum -> Blocked ???
Scum -> Killed Kdub

Analysis

Kast's block on N3 is one block too many as mentioned before. Not sure what alignment - town "survivor" claim hints at SK but not town for sure.
N1 tells us that Iece isn't the scum roleblocker
N3 tells us that ABR isn't the scum roleblocker
So one of Kast\Sathoris is the scum roleblocker. If Kast is SK, Sathoris is the scum roleblocker. Otherwise, could be either. Now analyzing play from D1 to spot links ..

---

@ Ooba -- Mafia is blind to whether he's town or SK...so I don't see why explaining something verbally on D5 would explain why he wasn't killed before that.

No, I'm aware that you mentioned Snow Queen several times. The reason I asked you was that I thought the reason was that it might have been Queen/Huntsman/Ursula before fitz's flip (which is when I think when the exchange happened), which would have justified your reason to not correct me (since correction wouldn't have been necessary). I wanted to see if you would come up with that as the explanation or what.

I have no clue what you're trying to say? Kast ..
Claimed BP on D2
N2 - Mass roleblock
N3 - Had claimed Self bus drive the day before
N4 - Had no reason to survive so he did need to change his story to reflect why he survived the night?

When we lynched Fitz, I was sure the scum team was Queen\Ursula\TWOTW with fakeclaims swapped.

P-edit: Learn to use night actions for maximum benefit

[ooba]

I'll admit Kast makes a good point about Amrun on ABR ..
- Scum blocking Amrun doesn't make sense because Kdub was already blocked that day
- Only reason which could have made sense is Amrun switching targets. But I don't see why she would.
@Iece - I selected Amrun to check ABR because I thought the "Send messages to people" is a useless power for scum to have. So I wanted her to check what she got by stealing from ABR. (Amrun couldn't block anyway - that was N1 when she stole from Robo - she could at max prevent scum from using their normal power)

I'm re-reading the game from the beginning to realign reads..

I don't want Sathoris\Iecerint to vote before I'm done - give me 24 hours ..

[ooba]

Ok. Started off by looking at Fitz's later posts.
- In 795: He calls me a player of "unknown alliance"
- 831 is another motherload of info: He calls me a SK because of I'm a BP (making no mention of Sathoris who was also a BP). He also talks about the daykill in the same breath as he talks about the SK.
I'll let you be the judge of it - but those of you pushing me\ABR would do well to look at this post where he suspects I'm the SK (aka meaning I'm not mafia)
- 833: Sort of backtracks from it. Says he thinks daykill cannot be scum. Also hasn't been in a game with daykill SK - so has to be town driven..

He softprotects ABR in 831 and 847. Also kast in 831.

My read is that:
- The daykill was not from scum, but from a SK
- Scum probably hit me N2 when I mass roleblocked

So I specifically searched for any mentions of a SK after our mass claim.
- Full disclosure: I myself speculated on a SK in 756. (Also brought up 791)
- 763: Kast displays the same tells that fit does. Specifically calling ME the sk - while not commenting on Sathoris being the BP - (he mentions Sathoris in a separate Spoiler). Also soft defends Fitz and wants to move ooba\Fitz to another day.
- 776: Iece says daykill might be mafia one-shot
- 806: Sathoris on ABR as SK
- 804: Kast - Multiple shot Day SK is silly
- 860: Sathoris - More SK talk and he also trusts me
Next day
- 938: Sathoris - ABR is still the SK. (Compare with Kast's 937 of suspicion on ABR). Also softprotects Kast
- 947: Kast - More SK spec. This time Sathoris is the SK and ABR is mafia.

Also just looking at the general congruence in similarity of SK reactions of Fitz-Kast-Sathoris, I think Iece was right when he said Fitz wasn't a traitor. Also makes Iece town with his tinkerbell result.

- I'm putting my money on Kast,Sathoris=Mafia, ABR=SK right now. (Because ABR has non-mafia tells in 733 where he's WIFOMs it up with Fitz and 942 where he tries to paint the daykiller as Mafia. Plus no way we have a Sathoris-ABR pairing. Plus a SK-who-cannot be roleblocked fitz perfectly with N3)

Vote: Sathoris

@Iece

- I know I'm town. Sathoris's BP claim directly contradicts mine. He is scum.
Let's analyze at how the SK would play - He really wouldn't go "X is the SK" over multiple posts so he isn't the SK. Just go through the reactions in the posts I've highlighted for you above.
My read has you as the other townie so I need your support on this.

[ooba]

To be frank, your "my role means the normal logic does not apply" logic is what I often use as scum when I'm playing the analytical angle. So I am suspicious.

I don't understand why Fitz softprotecting ABR is relevant if ABR is the SK.

I think a fixation on SK-exists type perspectives is actually an SK/mafia tell, because those alignments know whether an SK exists and town does not.

I think it's weird that you think Fitz wasn't a traitor, but you don't think he was scum with ABR in spite of the flavor-spec that resulted in killed scum from your PoV.

Why do you think scum hit you N2?

I don't understand the first paragraph.
I might be wrong with my analysis so thought I'll note all relevant info.
About the fixation tell - how does that detract from my case?
Flavor spec was good but ABR never displays any SK paranoia at all.
Fitz's reaction gave me those vibes - the sudden burst of suspicion on me for no reason ..

[ooba]

You've acknowledged ABR's slip regarding Amrun and concluded that ABR is the SK? Come again? How did ABR-SK know about a mafia ability and convince mafia to work with him to support a fake claim about that?

A SK
- who is unblockable
- and can modify flavor to confuse the town
seems perfect.

Iece
- Given the reactions and the vibe I get from reading Fitz\Kast\Sathoris, I am pretty sure I can read SK-paranoia there. No "muddying-the-waters" kinda there is an SK posting but genuine SK paranoia. Read Fitz again.

The lack of a double hammer on anybody might be due to scum fearing that they hammer town and will be exposed to the SK.
Also maybe it's a longshot {Iece,Kast=Mafia, Sath=SK} (and Fitz was a Iece bus) - this arises mostly out of irritation with Iece refusing to believe me...

Vote: Kast

I KNOW ABR is not-Mafia.
I KNOW Kast is Mafia.

---

Let's take up the alternatives
- I am town (I've had similar flashes of intuition before where I was so sure I'm right - Olympus, American Gods). I let my own setup spec convince me out of the scum lynch in Olympus but not going to repeat that this game.
- I am scum with ABR*
- I am scum with someone else*
- I am a SK and have inside info
-- Play doesn't make sense. Best play is to lie low as a third party. I never would have gambit'd with LLD and Kdub is I was a SK. Also, mass-roleblock. (Would have also not gone 1:1 vs Fitz - not knowing his alignment but that can be explained with me being a JoAT SK who has a rolecop)

*In my defense as scum
- Me-scum, ABR-town\SK: I never ever white knight as scum to this extent. I would take my town\SK lynch and move on.
- Me-scum with ABR: Again, I never protect my scumbuddies to this extent. Like I said before - would have just bussed the hell out of ABR out of the gate. Or at least done it once I saw the anti-ABR vibes from others. By doing this and risking that ABR-partner is lynched, I deny myself any chance to win in the night because I-scum would definitely get killed by the SK.
You can check out any of my previous scum games. (Weeds, Vampire, Star Wars, Invitational, Cross edge bastard Mafia). Wiki

---

ABR - vote Kast with me.
Iece\Sath (Iece mostly) - vote Kast if you want to give yourself the chance to win

[ooba]

You'd already shifted gears on ABR yesterday on the basis of set-up spec. Though it was a weird logic jump at the time IMO, it would be weird for you throw it all out the window.

If I got it right, you're saying - I'm doing this on D5 because I called ABR mostly-town on D4 and really don't have a choice because scum want to be consistent.
- By that logic, I-scum should have stuck with ABR-scum on D4 because I had a cool bus-case on him on D3
- Also I wouldn't have gone through the charade so long when the act of being consistent makes me appear more-scum with my partner. A "Damn! Maybe I was right about my theory about ABR-Fitz-Kast. Got carried away with the Fitz=traitor theory yesterday but let's not make the same mistake today" is a much better play and also sets me up to win better in the night if there is a SK with a potential cross-kill.

Also to be clear - while the flavor aspects of it play a little part - I'm calling ABR non-Mafia because of the pattern of attacks - all attacks on him being genuine - also strong vibe.

[ooba]

The prosecution will make it's closing statement:
"I'm town. (Just re-read the game - you'll know that).
ABR is not mafia. (Just read attacks on him from others - not a bus).
By process of elimination, you have to vote for one of the other two so there.."

If Iece is town - that vote is the nail on the coffin for town. But whatever, I tried my best ..

P.S: @Iece: It's not something I do as scum. If I chose to bus ABR on day three - I definitely would have gone through with it. I have the hero complex.

[ooba]

From my PoV, unless there's no SK, there can only be 2 town. At least one of <Ooba, ABR> has to be scum. The simplest to me was that ABR was scum, because Ooba wouldn't bother stopping the lynch on ABR if ABR were town (or SK, for that matter).

If there's just no SK and the scum are Kast-Sath, I'm OK with that. I thought Sath agreed with lynching Kast too readily for this possibility to be too likely, especially with him already being pretty lynchable.

So who is ABR scum with - me? Also you've never seen the play where one scum agrees to lynch another but never votes him? Lol.
I absolve all responsibility for this game.
- Fate's going to be spamming the dead thread now but if he had spent even a fraction of that time thinking about his night action, he wouldn't have been mislynched.
- LLD not sending a night action

Where the hell is RC?

[ooba]

Was talking about this part and you discounting Sath-Kast for pretty flimsy reasons - He said he'll vote Kast later in the day if there are no objections but came back to vote ABR - "I thought Sath agreed with lynching Kast too readily for this possibility to be too likely, especially with him already being pretty lynchable.". (Also, as an aside - seeking acceptance of action at LyLo is never a towntell)

[ooba]

Yes, we do.

<Placeholder for my views on the game>

[ooba]

So where I do i start?

@LLD

- Day 1 ended at: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:41 am
- Deadline is Tuesday, June 28 at 3pm PST (6pm EST)
- Total number of posts on site in this period: 120+
How better play from you could have influenced the game in town's favor
- Caught Kast on D2 (Because he roleblocked Kdub that night - you would have known that you not getting two actions + Kast on Kdub = Kast roleblocker)
- You obviously wouldn't have gotten lynched
Next time stop blaming the mod because he stuck to deadline rules and get your action in on time. (Expecting a mod to remind you for a night action is bad)

@Fate

Reads were good + the alliance we formed early on D1 was all town {Amrun,Robo,You,Me,Iece} - I needed to mislynch you because I knew you had a "secret scumread" on me. (Part of the reason I choose not to kill N3 along with number-endgame analysis).
But you had a Redirect - which IMO is the most powerful town ability there is (slightly lower than a Vig or CPR doc). Kast, Me, Sath were you scum reads. Trying to redirect one onto the other would have been the best move. Redirecting Iece to the same person he said he would target achieved no purpose except to get you lynched.

I think both the wasted watch and the wasted redirect went a long way in the town losing.

@ABR

- Could have been a bit more useful in the game. Plus you should have checked B&B1 before joining since flavor\theme of the game - instead of generally bitching about it in thread and not doing much. If you did check B&B1, you would have known that your message power had the use of confirming you didn't use any other ability that night (like Roleblocking)
Should have replaced out early if it irritated you so much.

@Iecerint

- Surprised that you thought I -ABR were a scum pairing - especially just coming after "Battle of Olympus". (where I hard-defended both Chess and gandalf as town). I never defend my scumbuddies as scum - and like I said - bussing ABR is the better play at that point in time. The bolded part in this post was as close as I could come to a SK claim without giving up the chance to win. I was right about the fact that your night action would be nerfed or not that useful - Especially since LLD had a two shot Watch\Track. Overall, think you stuck to your flavor-analysis too much and didn't actually see what I was trying to tell you. For example - you should have definitely seen that Sathoris spent most of his posts SK hunting so he wasn't the SK.

I think the rest of the town was fine. I'm sorry @SpyreX for killing you but I had a gameplan as an SK which revolved around not getting crosskilled beyond N1 (since I was NK immune only for N1)
- Gambit on D1
- Massroleblock N2
- Claim Mass roleblocker + Bulletproof on D2
The Gambit would strengthen the ooba=Townie part of it meaning I wouldn't get lynched. The Bulletproof claim would mean scum would not crosskill me. SpyreX with an early vote on me threatened to disrupt those plans, so killed him.

A bit less RC bitching and more playing would have made for a better game - but overall, I think the playlist was good & would play again with you guys.

@RC

- Personally would have removed the "Beloved Princess" part of Kast's role and just made him a scum JoAT.
- I do think the game was too confusing in night actions. Stuff like the relfexive part of Robo's role and Fate's busdrive could have been omitted (B&B1 had a better mix of actions)
- I'm also surprised at the following line in the QT - "Sathoris is under the impression that you submitted a kill, Kast." - I mean you were strict with LLD on submitting the action choice by PM within the deadline & you didn't remind her too. If each Mafia-ite thought the other was submitting the kill, it points to a lack of coordination on their part and hence, no Mafia kill should have occurred. Would have lead to a Iece-Sath-Me endgame. Would have given either me or town a good chance to win - since we would have no lynched and Sathoris would decide who would have won by killing one of me or Iece. I prefer consistent molding across a game.