The Brave and the Beautiful 2: Fairy Tales ÔÇô Game Over

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote Kast

I'm not even gonna read that block Kast wrote, you scumbags have been setting up my lynch for decades, it would be a tragedy if it didn't happen and town won.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think we need to hit lynch mafia today, VOTE: ABR seems like the safest/guaranteed play.

hahahaha....ha....ha....

[ReaperCharlie]

The Brave and Beautiful Vote Count

5.1

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Albert B. Rampage [1] – Kast
Kast [1] – Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting

– Iecerint, ooba, Sathoris

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With 5 players alive, it is 3 votes to lynch.
Deadline is August 6th at 8pm PST (11pm EST).

[Iecerint]

I targeted Kdub last night. I thought his continuously failed ability usages + relatively quick switch to Fate yesterday and insistence on framing it as a switch where rhetoric "convinced" him + scummy D1 play + the fact that I couldn't discern logical scumteams that didn't include him meant that he was likely scum who wouldn't otherwise be lynchable. No dice.

I did not receive any PM from RC whatsoever when the day started, except the "D5 started" PM. I PM'd him to ask for a PM, and he said it was lost when his browser crashed, but all I would have gotten was flavor + kill, so it seems like I wouldn't have gotten any Watcher-type hints (which surprises me).

I wanted Kast to go first in case he were to claim busdriving himself with Kdub. If he did as much, I would know he was lyng in spite of my result yesterday. I didn't see any benefit of my going first.

~~

Kast played N3 extremely scummily if he is telling the truth. He wasted my investigation and Amrun's block for basically no reason. I guess he'd talked himself into a corner, but I would've liked to see him make at least some effort to avoid the situation. <_<

That said, I don't think he's mafia scum, because of my result on him, and I don't think he should be killed if he's the SK, because it will probably lead to our loss.

~~

I think the last mafia scum are in ABR-Sath-Ooba by PoE. I think ABR is 100% scum.

However, unless Kast is telling the truth, in which case I think we've basically still lost, since he'll pretty much inevitably die soon, I think we need a cross-kill to win this, and Sath and Ooba are unlikely to be cross-killed because they have claimed variations of bulletproof.

So that is where I am.

[Albert B. Rampage]

"ABR is 100% scum"

lololol

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why am I scum? Where is your case? What are your arguments?

[Iecerint]

1. I don't think Sath and Ooba are scum together. At least, this is the least likely scum pairing that remains. I guess it's possible that they both discussed claiming BP to increase SK paranoia or to avoid daykills they perceived might be out there if it wasn't a mafia-scum shot, but that's headed into more conspiracy-y territory (and I think it's impossible for town to win in that universe). Anyway, my point is that I thought you were the most likely scum of those that remain, but I'm not sure you're the best lynch, because we need a cross-kill.

2. I think Ooba is the least likely scum. I think he's only plausibly scum if his ability N2 didn't block kills and he intentionally no-shot to set himself up for looking relatively cleared. However, I think his approach to the flavor and so on is consistent with Ooba-town, and I think his ABR->fitz fakeclaim find was on-the-money.

2. I think your play this game has been anti-town at best. You seemed to jump onto little details of claims while ignoring the big picture and seemed more interested in getting X player lynched (where X is a variable, not a constant) than in discerning alignments. THOUGH I suppose the situation with Fate may be a high-profile exception, albeit one where it's a mystery how you got a town read, so even that doesn't do too much for me, and you still hammered so.

[Iecerint]

Last night as I was going to bed I was wishing I were scum this game because I have done an excellent job of lynching town on plausible bases pretty much every night.

No joke.

[ooba]

5. I think it would be EXTREMELY bastardly if my ability was basically worse-than-useless when I targeted BOTH fitz-scum (where it implied he was Town Tinkerbell) *and* hypo-Kast-scum (where it said he was princess-y and LRRH), especially when the 90% from my role PM implies ~1 person it doesn't work normally on.

Didn't get a chance to reply to this earlier. This is the part where I kinda disagree - your role cop result was accurate on Fitz - he was tinkerbell and that's what you got. So there's at least one person in the game on whom you won't get his role. (90%)

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Kast is a SK.
- Survivor third party? Lol.
- Way too overpowered if town (Basically he's claiming to be Fate's role + Unkillable)
- Flavor still doesn't make sense
- Plus him agreeing to "Getting confirmed" by Iece might have been a ruse to get himself investigated (Inv-immune SK who returns a fakeclaim as a result to Iece)
I'm just trying to make sense of the absence of a second kill...
N1: ???
N2: Mass-RB
N3: Roleblocked by scum (as per Iece result)
N4: ???

Could be a SK-Joat with a one-shot daykill and one-shot NK arsenal.

Sathoris, you get any flavor from yesterday night?

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Sathoris would be my choice for the lynch today (should have lynched him yesterday - my mistake). Competing Bulletproof claim with mine - thought it might be possible for us to coexist if Kast is town Beloved Princess but he's not - so Sath is basically bulletproof Mafia. Just want to re-read the game in it's entirety before voting. Btw, Sath, you should claim if you're the SK...

Also, RC - will we get flavor for Kdub's death? - even a minimal one para should do..

Also don't quicklynch before I have my say ..

[ooba]

Last night as I was going to bed I was wishing I were scum this game because I have done an excellent job of lynching town on plausible bases pretty much

every night.

"Every night"?

[Iecerint]

Sathoris would be my choice for the lynch today (should have lynched him yesterday - my mistake). Competing Bulletproof claim with mine - thought it might be possible for us to coexist if Kast is town Beloved Princess

?

P-edit: Well, at the end of every day. My mind translated it funny. <_<

Ow.

[ooba]

Sathoris would be my choice for the lynch today (should have lynched him yesterday - my mistake). Competing Bulletproof claim with mine - thought it might be possible for us to coexist if Kast is town Beloved Princess

He's also claimed bulletproof? I can see a setup where we have 2 one-shot bulletproofs with a BP thrown in. But Kast is third party. And hence not a BP.

[Iecerint]

I understand the also-claimed-bulletproof; I just mentioned it above. What I don't understand is why the presence of other bulletproofs makes a BP more likely.

But I suppose it's that it increases the chances of town getting a free night?

[ooba]

I understand the also-claimed-bulletproof; I just mentioned it above. What I don't understand is why the presence of other bulletproofs makes a BP more likely.

But I suppose it's that it increases the chances of town getting a free night?

What's a free night - no kill? And you've got it in reverse - I meant a presence of a BP makes one other bulletproof a bit more likely.

[Iecerint]

The association would presumably go both ways.

And yes, that's what I meant by a free night -- an ability round without an NK.

[Kast]

@Iec-
Not sure what's scummy about redirecting prob-scum-Fate's probable mafia kill back on himself. It should was one of the few targets that wouldn't interfere with any of the proposed plans.

@Ooba-
I'm not survivor third party. Misquoting my claim so it is less plausible is silly. I'm a town survivor.

Also, if you're assuming Kast is the SK, Iec is town, and Sathoris is mafia; then that would mean ABR is the last remaining scum. Given you acknowledge a possible Sathoris SK, I can't understand any potential town motivation for preferring a Sathoris lynch over an ABR lynch.

It's clear that you, Iec, and I all understand the specifics of our current situation:

IF

there is an SK,

THEN

town needs the SK to survive and to crosskill mafia tonight. We need to lynch guaranteed mafia today in order to have a shot at winning.

IF

there is no SK,

THEN

ABR/Sathoris are the most probable mafiosos. In both cases, the correct/safe play is to lynch ABR; in the former case, this lets the SK kill the last mafia and mafia shoots at SK (we lynch SK if he is bulletproof), in the latter case, it doesn't matter which order we lynch in.

Lynching any potential SK first instead of the nigh confirmed mafia is just bad/suicidal play. Coming from you at this point...it's just weird.

Also, lol at assuming the guy who wants to lynch the claimed non-BP must be an SK.

[Kast]

The only motivation I can see for a Sathoris lynch over ABR is if you are scumbuddies with ABR and know you need to get rid of Sathoris SK (which fits with Ooba scum failing to kill Sathoris SK last night and then asking today if he got flavor about it).

Regardless, it's incomprehensible that you as town would be trying to keep ABR alive...

[Iecerint]

I'm talking about N3, not N4. N3 was when we were going to test your busdrive (which you actually could not perform) by having me investigate you while you busdrove me to someone else. Amrun was also involved somehow; can't recall how. Anyway, since you could not busdrive N3, youTown should/would have said HEY GUYS WAIT UP THIS WON'T WORK and then made something up about wanting to make yourself a less likely target (since there must've been SOME reason for lying about your role in a game where we were publically using set-up /outguess to find scum). That way, I could have investigated someone else rather than roleblocked-Kast, and we wouldn't base our analysis on incorrect data.

[Iecerint]

Oh, small clarification.

I'm complaining about the effects of your lying on other actions, not about your recently-claimed actions.

[ooba]

@Ooba-
I'm not survivor third party. Misquoting my claim so it is less plausible is silly. I'm a town survivor.

Sorry I saw Survivor and went "Third-Party". Town survivor is just something you come up with to explain a no-kill on you yesterday. (Because if you are town, scum would have hit you). So you are scum. I mean why not claim this yesterday or even before that?

---

IF

there is no SK,

THEN

ABR/Sathoris are the most probable mafiosos.

In both cases, the correct/safe play is to lynch ABR; in the former case, this lets the SK kill the last mafia and mafia shoots at SK (we lynch SK if he is bulletproof), in the latter case, it doesn't matter which order we lynch in.

This is where we disagree. If there is no SK, it's you+Sathoris. (Or you+a very well played Iece as a long shot)

Reg. ABR. Strong town reads on ABR from yesterday ...

Play implications

- All three of you have pushed ABR as a potential lynch. All pushes have been genuine and not indicative of a bus. (Sathoris for the latter part of the day four hunted for a SK (A huge Mafia tell) and said ABR was a most prob SK.)

Flavor implications

- We've already have one flipped scum (Tinkerbell) and two clear indications of the other two scum
-- The Queen from Snow white
-- Ursula from The little mermaid
- So either ABR gave his Giselle fakeclaim to Fitz and decided to use "The Wicked Witch of the West" as a lol-wifom claim to confuse us. (In this universe, scum are Iece-ABR since Iece mentioned the point about the good version of this Witch)
- Note - even in the above - he could have just claimed Tinkerbell as his role which is the less risker move (Iece claimed after him)
- Or the simpler explanation that he's town

Setup implications

- I've already said that Iece's role demands nerfs in the setup. We already have a 2-shot Watcher\Tracker so Iece's role has to be severely limited if town. Fitz was the false positive. ABR was the false negative and we have one more guy for the 10% rule. Therefore if there are three scum, Iece is actually useful in catching just one scum. IMO, a town Iece increases the likelyhood of a town ABR.
- Scum have a roleblocker. (Kdub's claim on N3). ABR is not that roleblocker because his ability was public that night!

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I guess me\ABR makes sense as a pairing, but like I said - why do all the good work setting up a ABR-Fitz-Kast connection on D3 to do a 180 later and then say he's town. Going through with the bus-lynch and surviving till the end looked easy (I am a BP so don't have to keep inventing new stuff to explain why I haven't been killed)

[Iecerint]

I mentioned that point about the good version of that witch because you were assuming that Wicked Witch was necessarily a mod WIFOM situation, but I didn't think it was necessarily the case, because a sexed-up protagonist witch was a huge part of a recent aspect of popular culture.

THOUGH now that I think about it he probably would've had the role "Elphaba" if it had intended to be Wicked-based.

Where is the Snow White Queen allusion? You've mentioned that you suspect she'd be here many times, but I thought you were just pointing out that that fairy tale universe isn't represented.

[ooba]

Where is the Snow White Queen allusion? You've mentioned that you suspect she'd be here many times, but I thought you were just pointing out that that fairy tale universe isn't represented.

N1 Robo kill. The SW Queen uses a Hunstman.

[Sathoris]

because we need a cross-kill.

We've had one daykill on day one. What makes you think the SK will kill today or tomorrow? Assuming he can still kill.

(Sathoris for the latter part of the day four hunted for a SK (A huge Mafia tell) and said ABR was a most prob SK.)

One post about ABR's alignement =/= SK hunting.

Sathoris, you get any flavor from yesterday night?

Flavour would imply I was shot and that I lost my BP. I received nothing so I'm still BP.

[Iecerint]

Sorry I saw Survivor and went "Third-Party". Town survivor is just something you come up with to explain a no-kill on you yesterday. (Because if you are town, scum would have hit you). So you are scum. I mean why not claim this yesterday or even before that?

I don't follow this...scum could hit him regardless of whether he's SK or town...

I didn't know SW Queen uses a Huntsman. I did notice that moment, though -- mentioned it somewhere back in my iso where I mentioned that flavor implied there might be male scum. I think it was the same post where I mentioned Ursula. Then you (ooba) asked me about Ursula. Why didn't you correct me on SW Queen?

I was going to point out that ABR can mess with flavor, but that I doubted he'd mess with it that early and to this extreme unless he was on your scumteam -- but I doubt he can mess with nightkill flavor, anyway, so your response points against that.

[Iecerint]

because we need a cross-kill.

We've had one daykill on day one. What makes you think the SK will kill today or tomorrow? Assuming he can still kill.

Uh, that's pretty irrelevant to whether we need a cross-kill...town has 2 lynches left tops, and an SK ++ RC's pre-game discussion of the set-up => 3 scum left, so we can't win without a cross-kill.

If you or Ooba is an SK and 2 normal scum remain and the SK has no more kills, I think it's impossible for town to win.