The Brave and the Beautiful 2: Fairy Tales ÔÇô Game Over

[ooba]

Claim Analysis

Kdub -> Motivates -> LL
LL was not informed of the two actions implies
- Kdub was roleblocked
- Kdub lied..
- LL is lying about role\not receiving actions

About what I claimed before the hammer .. The fact that LL had to be corrected on this makes me think she's telling the truth.(Wouldn't be angry at RC though - a deadline is a deadline). Plus kills Robo kill seems to fit pattern of scum who are scared of a watch

- Went through Blackest night Mafia. Like Kdub said, both Redirector and Roleblocker appear higher on the resolution list.
- Resolution order comes into picture only when there is paradox. (Like Motivator on Roleblocker who roleblocks the motivator). Otherwise can see the motivator as being RB-able. I don't see Kdub scum talking about the action resolution point of Blackest Night.
- On a side note: a dying-motivator who can be redirected by scum for an extra kill seems overpowered for scum. So Kdub is unredirectable or scum do not have a redirector.

Initially went with the theory that scum roleblocked Kdub but his point about a RB on LL being better is valid. So it wasn't a scum roleblock. (And scum mostly don't have a roleblocker too - otherwise not RBing either Kdub or LL seems like suboptimaloplay)

Kill Analysis

Robo - Unwitting Obstructor - clearly points to a Roleblock. "Unwitting" looks like random roleblocker
Flavor - The Queen from snow white was obviously the killer. (@Amrun - you went through flavor but didn't make he connect?)

So Kdub was mostly blocked by random Robo. At least that's the theory I am going with now.

---

P-edit: I was going to vote bv too. PoE of the lynching wagon - ABR wanted a massclaim which seems proton.
kunkstar7 [1] – bv310, Fate, Amrun, Albert B. Rampage, Lady Lambdadelta, Iecerint, ooba

Vote: Bv

[Iecerint]

The fact that LL had to be corrected on this makes me think she's telling the truth.

?

Went through Blackest night Mafia. Like Kdub said, both Redirector and Roleblocker appear higher on the resolution list.

?

Bv being scum would not surprise me.

[ooba]

LL not knowing what exactly I claimed: 415, 417. Doesn't look faked.

Kdub on RB-Redirector-Motivator action resoution
Blackest Night Actions

[Iecerint]

Ah, OK. Makes sense.

[Fate]

K Iecrint, NOW your town read is gone.

POOF

Fucking cheeky scumbag

[Iecerint]

Because I'm only indirectly answering your question?

[Fate]

YEAH GOD DMANT

I WANT YOU TO GIVE READS AND THROW A FUCKIN VOTE DOWN

LIKE ITS A LOT TO ASK

[Iecerint]

My main thought is that I am extremely frustrated by the situation with LLD. I find this LOL I MESSED UP SENDING IN ACTIONS HAHAHA angle incredibly hard to believe, not to mention the added discrepancy of the Kdub's ability not affecting anything. I was actually kind of O_Oing at why we weren't going down that angle until you pointed out that Robo's death was consistent with trying to avoid a Watch target, which tends to suggest that LLD is town unless she is scum with you.

SO that's where I am.

I suppose there are a few more people who may have thoughts to give.

[ReaperCharlie]

As for my non-existence, my work has apparently decided that I have to work midnight shifts 4 days a week, and I have an online course in Roman History that's been eating a lot of my time as well. I've had some rather unpleasant words with my boss this week, so the shifts should clear up and I can get back in to this game. Sorry if I annoyed anyone excessively.

Apparently this did not happen, as bv310 has requested replacement.

[ReaperCharlie]

YEAH GOD DMANT

I WANT YOU TO GIVE READS AND THROW A FUCKIN VOTE DOWN

LIKE ITS A LOT TO ASK

Last warning.

[Kdub]

- Went through Blackest night Mafia. Like Kdub said, both Redirector and Roleblocker appear higher on the resolution list.
- Resolution order comes into picture only when there is paradox. (Like Motivator on Roleblocker who roleblocks the motivator). Otherwise can see the motivator as being RB-able. I don't see Kdub scum talking about the action resolution point of Blackest Night.

I took a look at the Blackest Night role PMs, and my ability is this game is worded very similarly to the enhancer ability (Andrius's role) in BN. In that game, that ability, along with my enabler/inventor ability, were unblockable due to potential action resolution conflicts. I have to assume that the same applies to this game. There are a few possibilities I can think of:
- LL is lying and actually did receive two shots of her ability last night. I'm not exactly sure why she would do this as scum, since it puts her night actions into question as much as mine.
- The scum have a similar type of instant-resolution ability that could interfere with mine, and RC is resolving conflicting actions using time of submission. FWIW, I submitted my action roughly a day after the night phase started. I'm going to send him a PM and try to get clarification.
- If LL is telling the truth about missing the deadline, maybe she wouldn't have been told about getting two shots until after her initial submission. I'm not sure why RC would do things this way, but it's a possibility.

[Kast]

That they didn't do so tells me that something else is going on here.

If we assume that RC is resolving night actions the same way he did it in Blackest Night, that means my action is unblockable and un-redirectable. As such, you at least should have been told that you received a second use of your power, regardless of what you ended up doing with it.

This very much. Based on how RC's modded past games, Kdub's power should be unblockable/unredirectable. I can see three explanations for this (one less likely than the others), and in each case it looks like someone has been caught in a false claim:
-LLD is lying and has no active abilities (probable scum goon or passive ability ie. GF)
-Kdub's power only works on townies*
-Kdub is lying about using his power (unlikely since it would mean he set himself up for a lynch)

*Kdub- Do you know whether your doubling works on BOTH town AND scum? If it does not (and I can see an obvious reason for it NOT working on scum), that would explain LLD not getting any notification (regardless of whether she successfully submitted actions or not). This would also be consistent with town PRs from RC's recent games.

@Robo Death-
I'm surprised people are ignoring the standard possibility that he was killed for staunchly pressing after LLD, who was clearly the most likely scum yesterday and still remains so today. That's not a sure thing on it's own, but given she didn't even acknowledge Kdub's ability + the "forgot to submit until too late" + her scummy posts/reactions yesterday, LLD needs a LOT more attention today.

VOTE: LLD

[Kdub]

There is no indication in my role PM that it only works on town, so I assume it works on all players regardless of alignment.

[Iecerint]

Ooba said that the unblockable angle would've only applied in the event of a contradictory situation. Is he incorrect?

[Kast]

Kdub's power should be unblockable/unredirectable.

Sort of nvm this. I read ooba's link and just realized I've been mistaken on how roleblocking/re-directing interacted with town powers in Blackest Night.

Specifically, I mistakenly believed Andy and Kdub's claims that their abilities were unblockable/unredirectable, even though they weren't.

I'm ok with mass claim, but if we can lynch LLD without one, that's preferable. If we do a mass claim, I

can

go first because I have reason to suspect Kdub was probably not roleblocked. I'd rather go with a partial claim if that's sufficient; I'm

slightly ok

going with a full claim.

[Kdub]

Ooba said that the unblockable angle would've only applied in the event of a contradictory situation. Is he incorrect?

I think so. Consider this example: I target LLD. She gets two uses of her ability and uses them on whomever. Later in the night, the scum send in a roleblock on me. Oops, LLD shouldn't have been told that she got two actions. I brought this up with the mods during BN because I had a similar role, and it was strongly suggested that my actions were unblockable. But like I said, I sent a PM to RC to clarify a few things, so I'm waiting for his reply.

[Iecerint]

OK, I understand.

Regarding the function of your ability, which of these does the language imply:

A) If a player uses an ability on the night you target them, they may use that ability again that night
B) If a player uses an ability on the night you target them, they may use a second ability that night.
C) If you target a player who has an ability, they may use another ability that night.

Trying to evaluate whether a certain remote possibility is possible.

[Kdub]

I would say A is the closest. It says (paraphrasing) they may perform an action twice. The language does not imply anything about using "another" ability.

[ReaperCharlie]

The Brave and Beautiful Vote Count

2.1

---

bv310 [2] – Fate, ooba
Kast [2] – Amrun, Lady Lambdadelta

Lady Lambdadelta [1]

– Kast

Not Voting

– Albert B. Rampage, bv310, havingfitz, Iecerint, Kdub

---

With 10 players alive, it is 6 votes to lynch.
Deadline is July 14 at 8pm PST (11pm EST).

[Kdub]

I got a non-answer from RC. Not helpful, but I guess not too surprising.

[Amrun]

V/La for an indefinite period of time. My father had a heart attack. I will probably post a little, or maybe even a lot, depending on how much distraction I want, but I may disappear for a couple of days and wanted to make everyone aware.

[Kast]

@Amrun-
Sorry to hear that, hope he recovers soon.

@Kdub-
If your doubling works on scum, and if it works as you suggested to Iec (any ability used by a player is doubled), it could seemingly double the scum NK. This seems unlikely and very swingy.

@Claiming-
Actually, I don't think this hurts too much, but it is relevant to figuring things out. I have an odd night bus-driving ability. I bus-drivered myself with Kdub. RC won't directly answer what would happen in the event I bus myself with someone else and either one of us gets hit with a roleblock; but I'm inclined to think that either case would result in my other target (not myself) not getting roleblocked. I'm not going to claim the rest unless we decide to go with a mass claim.

Part of my target choice relates to the rest of my role. Part of is because if Kdub is scum, I figured an N1 Kast NK was pretty likely. If Kdub was town, then he would probably be left alive to push his Kast/Fitz cases, but potentially could be RBed to prevent his power from being used.

[Fate]

....

Holy fuck in hell and back.

Were massclaiming today

[ReaperCharlie]

V/La for an indefinite period of time. My father had a heart attack. I will probably post a little, or maybe even a lot, depending on how much distraction I want, but I may disappear for a couple of days and wanted to make everyone aware.

Hope everything comes out alright! Do you know if he's going to be ok yet?

Also, please let me know if you need/want replacement.

[havingfitz]

I'm back from vacation. Looks like a lot to catch up on. I'll try to chime in tomorrow.

Can anybody give a summary on what has happened? It looks like some people have claimed. Not sure what night actions have been discussed or if anyone is confirmed/likely town or scum by what did or did not take place.


Sorry to hear about your dad Amrun. Best of luck to your family but especially your dad.