Newbie 1040 ~ Murder in Newbville! ~ Game Over

[LordChronos]

@mod: There are 10 players on the player list, is this intended?

@Lindis

The only roles I have gotten to play are vanilla townie, scum, and jack of all trades. Of those, I like scum best because it is the most challenging.

Meta gaming can be helpful sometimes, but players can and do play against their metas.

I would prefer Mason, because it lets you share your thoughts with someone else and you aren't playing 1 against everyone else.

On to business:

Vote: Equinox

[LordChronos]

My bad on the number of players; I read the nailed to the perch line as a player name. Curse mafiascum for allowing spaces in usernames.

@Lindis

My vote was a vote to get discussion going and bring out opinions and reactions. What are your situational reservations about the whole L-1 role claim business?

Answers to Equinox's questions:
1. PST. I am aiming for at least one post a day, though often I post two or three. It depends alot on the day.
2. Yes. I have finished 12 games here I think, four of which where non-newbie games.
3. Assuming we are discussing a newbie game, I would lynch the liar. There is no pro-town motivation to be lying in a newbie game.
4. I will go with my gut for two main reasons because second-guessing yourself is often wrong (I have experience with this from tests and spelling bees). I suppose it does depend a bit on how strong of a gut read I have. Obviously, the stronger my gut read, the more likely I am to vote them.

Thanks for the voting spreadsheet tip, btw. Gonna go start that now.

[LordChronos]

Chronos:

If I was scum, at L-1 in a newbie game when no one had claimed: I would claim Cop. Best situation? No one counters, people back off because of it, and I'm likely to live another day. Worst situation? Someone counterclaims, and now my partner knows who to kill at night. It's situational, yes. But its risky for town to WANT people to claim. It opens up doors that could really hurt town.

Now, if I was a townie at L-1, and claim cop - great. I probably wont be lynched. I, however, will die that night. Naturally, I would have died in the day if I didn't claim, but the point here is: The benefit doesn't outweigh the possible problems that could arise for town.

This is, as I said, situational. But it's something I don't think should be taken as automatic at L-1.

There are a couple problems with your logic here. First, in your scum scenario: the worst situation is not the one you presented. It is the one in which the reasoned, thinking townies analyze your play with the claim in effect and decides you aren't the cop and lynches you anyway. Second, if town doesn't want claims, then you leave yourself open to lynch your cop or doc without a claim, which is bad. Third, if you as scum are going to fake claim cop, you will claim no matter if the town asks you or not.

[LordChronos]

mike, why no vote?

a2rudeboy, why does being lynched alot make you want to be a mason?

[LordChronos]

Kitoari, I misread Nailed to the Perch as a player name cause I was tired. And there weren't numbers.

[LordChronos]

Do you believe a vote is only to lynch someone? Why does the fact that questions were asked make it so you can't make an early vote?

[LordChronos]

@Lindis

Let's say it is 3p LyLo Newbie game with a goon flip and a dead doctor (meaning if last scum is goon, they know claiming cop is safe) and said player was linked to dead scum and has been suspicious. Would you lynch him then?
Also, you were talking worst case scenario. That is the worst case scenario for scum.

[LordChronos]

Getting back to the original point, what is the pro-town player's motivation for not claiming? If a scum wants to fakeclaim, he will, regardless of whether a townie would claim.

[LordChronos]

Grump: Why can't he be looking for reactions outside of RVS? Also, read his post again.

MrDNA: That is the thing I like least about RQS. It tends to lead to theory discussion instead of game discussion.

[LordChronos]

A note about using RNGs for random votes: 'RVS' is a misnomer, as it's not that the votes are random as much as the votes are for arbitrary reasons to start the game. It's better to have some reason, however silly, to back up your initial vote, since it helps other players get a read on you.

RNG is as good a reason for a vote as some of the reasons given in RVS.

I personally don't see how giving a nothing reason would help to give a read on me so didn't see the point in putting a vote on for the sake of it. It can be needed to get the game moving but we had our RQS so I deemed it unecessary.

Was happy to comply though if people wanted it for whatever reason (if mister random had fallen on anyone with 2+ votes already I'd have had another go).

Scummy post here. First, you say that you didn't see the point in putting a vote on for the sake of it, then went on to do that. Second, you said you were just random voting, then said that you would have ignore the RNG result if it resulted in you voting someone with more than one vote, which means you were actually not random voting.

Unvote; Vote: mikemike778

Lindis: I hadn't unvoted Equinox because L-2 isn't that big a deal and I hadn't seen a reason to vote someone else. Clearly, I now have.

[LordChronos]

Somewhat surprised no one commented on my post where I voted mike.

[LordChronos]

mike: Why no response to my post and the points within?

Would you say that no one has done anything scummy yet this game?

All: Another vote on mike and some comments from our resident lurkers would be nice.

[LordChronos]

mike: Why no response to my post and the points within?

What points ?

About the only bit left is this crap about it not being random - of course it was random, if Equi came out I'd have another go so was basically picking at random between the other 7 players.

Other than that, I think I've pretty much explained my logic behind letting random.org pick someone at random for me as opposed to randomly picking someone myself methinks.

Sidenote - Lindi's subtitling of his quotes made me smile.

Silverbullet also had 2 votes when you voted, so according to your earlier explanation you wouldn't have voted him, either. Who is the scummiest person and why?

Lindis: The second point I was trying to make was the contradiction more than the fact that his vote wasn't fully random. The former is scummy, the latter is null.

Not liking silverbullet's posting so far either. Not much in the way of opinions and no analysis at all. Just banter and theory discussion.

[LordChronos]

Silverbullet also had 2 votes when you voted, so according to your earlier explanation you wouldn't have voted him, either. Who is the scummiest person and why?

You to be honest.

Pretty much every single thing you've said has been to go on about the RNG thing which isn't exactly helping the town's cause. Either people believe RNG is scummy or they don't. To go on repeating the same questions is just doing your best to put a road block on any other lines of enquiry. Which the scum will love of course - if you aren't scum you are certainly giving them a helping hand at the moment.

So you aren't voting me because why? Also, I have talked about many more things than just the RNG vote. Selected quotes below:

Do you believe a vote is only to lynch someone? Why does the fact that questions were asked make it so you can't make an early vote?

Grump: Why can't he be looking for reactions outside of RVS? Also, read his post again.

Not liking silverbullet's posting so far either. Not much in the way of opinions and no analysis at all. Just banter and theory discussion.

Would like to hear RC's responses.

[LordChronos]

Welcome Charlie.

[LordChronos]

@Equinox

You mentioned having played with mike when he was scum and his play being different here. Could you expound on that some, please?

[LordChronos]

Equinox - Hard one to call as he's playing very ICy - seemingly pushing everyone to play textbook town style. At this point I just can't see him being scum (christ would scum really go through and read through another players' game for a meta read? I'd say probably not although having said I was surprised by the analysis so maybe he didn't go through as much as he's making out) but if he was (scum) not sure I'd spot him easily. Still.

Town

Lord Chronos - seems over fixated with me regardless of any claims to the contrary. Could well be scum attempting to latch onto a vulnerable target but then again if he does think I'm scum then he's right to persue it to an extent.
Leaning to Scum slightly

Silverbullet - just looked through all of his posts and despite posting fairly regularly earlier on, there seems to be very little of note in there after the theory. At all. Its just woolly. Nothing that could be picked up and questioned.

Starting to think he looks a bit dodgy

So my top 2 picks as scum for the moment are probably Silverbullet and LC.

I agree that Equinox seems town right now, though it is perfectly reasonable for a scum player to check out other games for a meta read either to get town points or to see if they can find meta of a player as a power role. I also agree that Lindis has been pretty pro-town thus far.

Going down to your opinion on me, I would like to know what you define over-fixation to be.

That is what I said about silverbullet earlier.

Getting to the main reason I am posting this: Your top two scum picks are me and silverbullet, thus you are voting MrDNA who is neutral. Huh?

[LordChronos]

Getting to the main reason I am posting this: Your top two scum picks are me and silverbullet, thus you are voting MrDNA who is neutral.

This. I haven't even caught that, good analyzing.

Nope.

I unvoted - don't currently have a vote in.

I apologize for that then. Was looking at the (incorrect) vote count at the top of the page. Still doesn't explain why you aren't voting your suspects.

[LordChronos]

I would very much like to know why you find those people town, Reaper.

[LordChronos]

Kit, I unvoted ages ago. Just in case I did it wrong ..

Unvote

The Silverbullet laptop thing is annoying as looking back again, my feeling is he's the most likely and we could really do with hearing from him. I'm going there for now as just because he may be replaced isn't a reason not to vote.

Vote Slverbullet999

Voting someone for being genuinely unable to play is at the very least incredibly anti-town, if not scummy. Why not actually vote someone who is here?

LC, out of interest I've just noticed your results have been far better playing as scum than playing as town. Why do you think this is ?

One of those games I shouldn't have won, my partner made an impossible fakeclaim that a newb townie believed. Also, I have played twice as many town games as scum, resulting in less ability for a large swing of wins vs. losses.

[LordChronos]

mikemike778 is definitely the worst looking player in this game. His random vote for Lindisfarne was bad. As others have noted, his attitude was contradictory, and he was trying more to appease than play for himself. As for his vote on silverbullet999, that was totally uncalled for. People are simply not scummy for having connectivity problems, and him claiming they are sounds like mudslinging. Scummy.

Yawn ...

Not sure if you bothered to read it but as discussed in my summary post, the vote for Silverbullet had nothing to do with his connectivity problems. He was posting plenty before that but not saying anything. Looks scummy to me. Guess you didn't bother to read my response to the other player who questioned it either did you?

And

"he was trying more to appease than play for himself"

, honestly what a load of crap. It was my second post of the game or something like that for goodness sake.

Anyway vote stands although just based on Silverbullet really for now.

mike: In the post where you voted silverbullet, you specifically mentioned his laptop problem as being annoying. That doesn't make it seem like your vote had nothing to do with his connectivity problems. Then later, after I called you out on it, you said it was scummy to give a free pass to someone who had no connectivity, again implying that your vote had something to do with that.

The game starts at the first post. Playing to appease others is just as scummy at post #2 as at post #200.

I find it incredibly odd that all game you have said I am the most suspicious player but you won't vote me, instead voting a player who is not around due to computer trouble.

@Charlie

You really have seen absolutely nothing that makes you think someone might be scum?

[LordChronos]

ReaperCharlie: Seconding Uite's request for you to actually say why the people you think are scum are scum. You know, the question I asked you that you refused to actually answer by responding with your "Secret Reasons" answer.

mike: From your vote post, #164:

The Silverbullet laptop thing is annoying as looking back again, my feeling is he's the most likely and we could really do with hearing from him. I'm going there for now as just because he may be replaced isn't a reason not to vote.

Vote Slverbullet999

You say he is the most likely scum, okay. But you are also saying that his laptop problems are annoying and then immediately voting him, which implies that those problems tie into your vote.

Also, why exactly did you find me scummy? What suspicious things did I do apart from pushing a case on someone that I and others feel is suspicious? Which, by the way, is not a scummy thing to do.

I don't like your phrasing of your clarification to the "townie" not intentional softclaim. By saying that it was not an intentional softclaim, you are implying that it was an accidental softclaim as opposed to saying "It wasn't a softclaim, I meant this ...", which doesn't imply that the softclaim is actually true.

[LordChronos]

V/LA from now until either late 12/25 or 12/26

[LordChronos]

@mike

The reason I didn't like your softclaim denial phrasing was because you were using weasel words instead of straight out denial. Weasel words are scummy because they allow scum to go back and say they actually didn't mean what they implied, they meant something else. Now you have straight out denied making a softclaim, so I will drop it.

@Charlie

That post you promised would be very nice right about now.

[LordChronos]

Busy with real life stuff, will post tomorrow.

[LordChronos]

off to random.org we go

VOTE: Lindisfarne

Haven't read through the entire thread yet but being afraid to vote without announcing that it's random sets off huge mafia bells in my head.

We had this discussion a while ago. More in a bit.

[LordChronos]

Reconsidering my vote on mike, his play is improving, and I really don't like Charlie sucking up big time to Equinox or Charlie saying he would sheep Equinox's vote.

@RC: You said you didn't really feel like pushing a Flame lynch at the top of this page. Why then are you voting him still? We get that you are suspicious of him, but shouldn't your vote be going someplace useful if you aren't going to post your case on Flame?

@mike: You are correct about what sheeping is.

[LordChronos]

I am also willing to hammer. Claim is probably good.

[LordChronos]

Also working on a reread. Through page 8 now.

[LordChronos]

I have finished my reread. I don't like Kishime's play after people started moving towards a Charlie lynch, especially in light of his after hammer attacks on mike and defense of Charlie's sucking up/sheeping. I don't see a pro-town motive for not unvoting from the lynch he was protesting. He had a day and a half roughly to get on and unvote, so it seems unlikely he just wasn't able to.

Kishime also had quite clearly not finished reading the thread as of the hammer, since he didn't know why Equinox listed him as most scummy.

Another thing I find scummy is RC's hammer. Three minutes before RC hammered, Charlie posted a short post and said he had a few more things to say if no one speed lynched him. RC proceeded to speed lynch him.

@mike

Why are you wary of Reaper? And by the way, you should be making strong stances from the moment you start playing if you are town. That doesn't mean knowing who the scum are instantly, but it does mean not going from "I don't see the point of voting now" to, after people get on you about it, "I might as well vote, since you asked."

@Kishime

Why did you feel DNA was town before you replaced in? Also, why bring that up anyway?

Are you still voting mike solely because of his early play or has he done other scummy things since?

[LordChronos]

@Kishime

Kishime also had quite clearly not finished reading the thread as of the hammer, since he didn't know why Equinox listed him as most scummy.

I most certainly did read the thread before replacing in.

@Kishime

Why did you feel DNA was town before you replaced in? Also, why bring that up anyway?

I honestly don't even remember. I just remember thinking he was town.

If you had read the thread before replacing in, why ask Equinox to explain your position on his list? It was incredibly obvious why.

Please answer the other question I asked.

@mike

You don't find RC's hammer that scummy even though he did it right after the hammered person said he was going to post something if he wasn't quicklynched?

To me that seems like an attempt to shut off discussion, like he was afraid Charlie knew something.

So for now,

Vote: ReaperCharlie

I am also somewhat surprised that he has neither attacked Flameaxe further today nor voted him not expressed a new suspicion at all. Instead, he has urged everyone else to re-read and examine the attacks on Charlie.

@RC

How is your re-read coming?

[LordChronos]

^^ Hypocrisy at its finest.

Not that I disagree that that post is scummy, but after arguing with Equinox about a mike lynch being better than a Charlie lynch (saying that Charlie's sheeping and sucking up were not as scummy as one or two posts from mike), that is definitely hypocritical.

@mike

Go back and check the time-stamps after on Charlie's last post before being hammered and Reaper's hammer. There is a literal three minute gap between the posts. Then see if you can come back here and tell me Charlie had time to say what he was going to say before the lynch.

As town, you should never hammer someone when there is still time left when they say they have one more thing to post, assuming they aren't quicklynched.

[LordChronos]

Re: my quick hammer on Charlie.

There is no better move than to hammer a VT claim. Either they're a lying PR (not likely), or they're a truthful townie (in which case it's not that big of a deal), or they're lying scum.

I don't take issue with the fact that you hammered. Mike and I were both willing to do that as well. What I do take issue with is the fact that you quickhammered Charlie immediately after he said he was going to say one more thing

if he was quickhammered.

Does that make more sense?

Also very ironic that you are calling me out for not scumhunting enough when you have refused to make a case on your top suspect all game and now only do so when votes go on you. Btw, that post of mine you quoted was during the holidays, when I was busy with real life family stuff. I was playing better at game start, and I know it. I slacked off some over the holidays and am now working on getting back into the game.

[LordChronos]

LC, Uite, how comfortable are you guys being on the same wagon as your scum pick of yesterday?

At this point, I think mike's play has improved greatly, so I'm not as worried about him being scum as I was. He is still scummier than you, for instance, but not as scummy as Kishime or ReaperCharlie.

I am also slightly worried by Uite's play recently, especially the sheep L-1.

Mod: Your votecount is missing my vote.

[LordChronos]

Unvote; Vote: Kishime

The unvote is for courtesy to the replacement. The vote is on my second suspect.

[LordChronos]

LC, Uite, how comfortable are you guys being on the same wagon as your scum pick of yesterday?

I was thinking this myself ... to repeat previous posts, LC only stopped interrogating me (and it went from virtually every post attacking me to a complete stop to now sheeping my vote (to use the new 'in' phrase) upon being accused of role fishing. He said recently he still thinks I'm scummy yet follows me ... pretty much straight away. Hmm. Again Uite called me clearly the worst looking player and he followed as well.

Try reading more carefully next time, mike. I recently said you were scummier than AzBlueM, but not as scummy as Kish or RC. I followed you??? Seriously? I posted my suspicions of RC before you today, not after. If anything, you followed me.

Unvote; Vote: ReaperCharlie

[LordChronos]

@Uite

The hypocrisy point referred to Kishime, not you. Sorry for the confusion.

[LordChronos]

Then please act like it.

[LordChronos]

Please prod mike/Uite/anyone else who needs it.

[LordChronos]

Why not answer the other question?

Why are you not voting anyone?

[LordChronos]

Why did you unvote Reaper after I did?

[LordChronos]

Post 400: Unvote for courtesy.

Post 415: Alarmed at how fast wagon appeared.

But the thing is, I unvoted first. Why did you feel it was necessary to drop all the way down to one vote just because RC replaced out? Why still be worried about quickwagoning once I unvoted?

Also, you don't see the scum motivation for his posting but he is your number 1 suspect? Wow. So everyone else seems town to you?

[LordChronos]

I just don't see the scum motivation for his postings so far (although I don't see town motivation either) which concerns me regrading his likely lynch.

I can see lots of things that make me think scum (see my original case) but at the same time if he was scum I'm not sure why he was saying what he was saying.

I don't like these quotes whatsoever. First you say you don't see scum motivation or town motivation for his posting (in other words, his posting is a null tell) and you are concerned about his "likely" lynch, then you say that his posting makes you think he is scum. It can't be both. Which one is right?

If it is the first quote, why did you vote him? If it is the second, why did you unvote after me? (Which you still haven't answered, btw.)

Also, if you suspect Kishime and won't vote RC right now, stop fence sitting and vote Kishime already.

@Uite

What connection are you seeing between Kish/RC other than general unhelpfulness?

@AzBlueM

You are asking others a lot of questions and poking at others to deliver some content, but I haven't seen a lot of opinions from you today on who is scum and why. Mind doing that?

[LordChronos]

By the way, guys, we have eight days until deadline. Let's be productive with those days.

[LordChronos]

Also, if you suspect Kishime and won't vote RC right now, stop fence sitting and vote Kishime already.

How am I being unhelpful? I targeted and exposed Mike for his scummy nonsense. That's more helpful than anything else that has happened in this game.

I didn't say you were being unhelpful. It would be nice if you would post a little more analysis, but I wouldn't say you are being unhelpful. I have played with people who are unhelpful and you aren't being unhelpful. (shotty, Furcolow, HopOnMyJoystick)

I was saying that mike should stop fence sitting and make clear his feelings with a vote. Words are much flimsier than a vote.

@mike

Now the quick hammer from RC doesn't make sense? When I brought it up earlier you said you thought it was fine and you would have done the same thing. When I pressed it and brought up the fact that he quickhammered immediately after being asked not to, you said it was still fine.

Again, make up your mind.

[LordChronos]

Welcome DBE!

[LordChronos]

Any thoughts about the game, DBE/bvoigt?

[LordChronos]

mike

As the vote count says, I am voting DBE. I revoted RC after you unvoted.

[LordChronos]

mikemike778: I don't like that he voted just because someone told him to. However, considering that he random voted in a previous game as scum, it's not really a scumtell.

Yeah, why does doing something as scum make it not a scumtell? And for the record, I didn't tell him to. Finally, the scumtell that concerned me/Kish the most was not the random vote, but rather the appeasing nature of it.

[LordChronos]

Kishime, do not claim until someone off the wagon asks for a claim.

[LordChronos]

For emphasis:

Do not vote right off.

I will make a more detailed post with my suspicions later.

[LordChronos]

My thoughts -

Reaper/Ibarra is still my number 1 candidate, for the reasons I expressed yesterday.

Uite and mike are much less scummy. mike's early play was scummy. His late Day 1 and early Day 2 play was pretty pro-town though. Uite played well Day 1 but wasn't contributing much Day 2 + quickhammer. Kishime's refusal to claim when someone off the wagon requested it was idiotic and incredibly anti-town though.

I am somewhat disturbed that no one, including myself, seems to have much of an opinion on Az. I may have to reread and focus on her.

[LordChronos]

Uite, Az, Ibarra

Your thoughts on who is scum and why would be nice.

[LordChronos]

I'm not cop. Hmm, I don't know if I believe the claim or not. On the one hand, it explains Uite's play yesterday really well, both since cops generally don't want attention and since it explains his turnaround on mike. On the other hand, it is also LyLo and scum often fakeclaims in LyLo.

I don't suppose you breadcrumbed earlier, Uite?

[LordChronos]

I feel that Ibarra's lack of vote on Uite until you mentioned it, Az, makes me a little more inclined to believe the claim.

@Az

I asked for a crumb because if he had crumbed it adds to the power of the claim, at least in my opinion. I mean, yeah, a scum player could have breadcrumbed, but it seems more town than not to have breadcrumbed his role.

[LordChronos]

The absolute only thing that the lack of a quickhammer on Ibarra means is that either you are he is scum, Uite.

[LordChronos]

The absolute only thing that the lack of a quickhammer on Ibarra means is that either you are he is scum, Uite.

God my typing skills suck some times. That should read "you are or he is ...".

[LordChronos]

So basically in Lylo you wanted to lynch me because I was one of 2 players (Az being the other) to put their vote on a townie. Interesting ...

At that time, before Uite and his cop "claim", you were the only one leaning scum for me.
My reasons for that may look lacking, but why wouldn't you target someone you have a scum tell of.

Actually, I was leaning scum for you as well. See my post at day start.

@Az

I'm picky about my writing.

[LordChronos]

I am working on re-reading again to look more closely at Uite and RC/Ibarra. Thus far I am still seeing RC/Ibarra as scummier.

[LordChronos]

Almost done re-reading. I think at this point I'm leaning with Uite-town, Iba-scum. Iba's lack of defense is incriminating as well. If he is scum, then he knows his team can still win, so he doesn't need to try to avoid lynch as much as if he is town (where a lynch on him is a loss).

Not going to vote just yet, but probably soon.

[LordChronos]

It occurs to me that the both of you know more than I do, because the townie among you knows the other has to be scum. The actual scum has of course known from the start...

Well, actually, I don't know for absolute certain that Az is scum, because I don't know for certain that you are cop. But I think it is certainly likely that he is scum with Ibarra, given that I am inclined to believe your cop claim.

[LordChronos]

Sorry for not posting, I was busy writing essays for school. I'll make a detailed post tomorrow.

[LordChronos]

@Uite

I can't give evidence for being town. No one can give evidence to prove themselves town. (Barring role reveals and what not.) Why ask that question?

As to why Az is scum, see his blending into the background throughout the days. Also, given that at this point I believe your cop claim, that makes it certain he is scum from process of elimination.

Going back over the previous days again, I became more and more convinced that RC/Ibarra is scum, based on not giving reasons for reads, quickhammering someone immediately after they asked not to be quickhammered, and voting his suspect Day only after he was prodded about it. Similarly, I think that Uite's cop claim really does explain his lying low somewhat on Day 2 and his reversal on mike.

@mike

What do you mean by "If I was voting I think I'd probably be inclined to go that way now more for a vote against Ibarra than against Reaper."?

[LordChronos]

@Uite

I guess what I am trying to say is that pro-town play isn't really the kind of thing that the person being questioned can point to. I can say that I have remained pretty active and scumhunted throughout the game, except for a few periods where real life took over. But there is the whole WIFOM issue where if I bring up a particular point to show how I am town you can say that I might have just done that to make myself look town.

About Az:

I just haven't really noticed her that much as we have been playing. She has felt subdued to me all game.

[LordChronos]

@Az

Of course I noticed you more after my reread. When I made the comment about you blending into the background, I was referring to the overall game. A number of things led to me having this feel. One is your habit of posting only every few days. You haven't made many cases on a player you feel is scum. Instead, you have mostly been asking questions, which feels alot more passive.

@hiphop

If you are town, then Uite must be scum, yes? You know if you are town. Thus to me the fact that you aren't pushing his lynch and are instead suggesting we lynch me or Az today suggests you aren't town.

By the way, that post of mine that you quoted in your wall post didn't say what you said it said. It basically provided the same refutation of Uite's irrational lack of quickhammer post that you did.

I also don't get the argument that Uite is trying to get the day over with. He has been encouraging Az, mike, and I to post more and discuss who the other scum is. How is that trying to get the day over with. To me it seems exactly like the behavior you described as what a cop would do.

[LordChronos]

@hiphop

1. The difference between those statements is that you don't know which of Az or me is scum if Uite is scum. Whereas if Uite is cop, I know that the scum team is you + Az. So you are switching from a guarantee to a guess, which is not a good thing for town in LyLo.

2. I said that the lack of a quickhammer means that either you or Uite is scum. Not that you are scum, which is what Uite said. (My logic was that if neither of you were scum you would have been quickhammered.)

3. Quoting parts of sentences is a great way to undermine people. Also it's very scummy.

What I was also trying to say in that particular paragraph, which may not have been obvious, was that if people weren't going to talk, there's no use in dragging out the Day.

Just place your votes, see the flip and prepare for the Night.

On the other hand, if you do want to get some more information now to help get the final scum tomorrow, we need to be more active, since without discussion we're not going to find him/her.

There is the full context for one of your quotes. The part you quoted is bolded. Looks to me like Uite saying that if people won't contribute, dragging the day out is useless, as opposed to Uite pushing to end the day right now, like you said.

Personally, I have seen games where scum has breadcrumbed and fakeclaimed. I have also seen games where town PRs have breadcrumbed and been nightkilled as a result. I don't see why the lack of a breadcrumb means Uite has to be scum.

[LordChronos]

lordchronos

• [1] There is no difference, for once you believe that uite is a cop, you lost anyways.(or should I say win because your scum) And truth be told stating that uite is a cop, is just a guess. There is no guarantee is there?
  
  [2] Same thing as what I said. Take a look at this-
  • Uite claims cop. What does that make him? Town or scum. Right?
    
  • I doubt that town would fake claim cop in lylo. And based on his previous games he can see that fake claiming at all has no merit.
    
  • So that leaves us with he is either scum fake claiming cop, or town that is a cop. No alternatives.
    
  • If he is a cop, I am scum, and if he is not, then he is scum.
    
  • So if one scum lies with one of us, how can scum quick hammer if there can only be one scum not one of us?
    
  • So in reality there can be no logic behind a quick hammer, because the fact that one of us was scum came at the point of the claim and not the vote.
  [3] I am contributing , yet he still had the nerve to say this after I replaced in

  Seriously, you're grasping at straws and you know it. This is exactly what I had in mind when I asked that Ibarra be lynched instead of waiting for a replacement.

  Which only shows the real reason as to why he wanted a quick lynch, instead of because noone was contributing. He obviously didn't want any defense from his fake-claim. As I said before, don't you think you are defending your partner much?

1. Way to miss the point.

2. I said that the lack of quickhammer means one of Uite/you is scum. That means I believe, like you do, that Uite's statement didn't make sense. Duh. How many times must I explain this?

3. Way to ignore my pointing out that you were deliberately taking quotes out of context to make Uite look worse and instead respond with a strawman.

Btw, this is usually what I do when I see someone do something scummy. I call them out on it.

[LordChronos]

To everyone- If I am supposedly scum, who would my partner be at this point? Could it be possible that it is hard to find a match because I am not? Then take Uite, if he were supposedly scum, who would most likely be his partner? Could it be possible that it is easy to find a match because he is?

The first question is not a hard question to answer. If you are scum, so is Az. If Uite is scum, I'd have to think whether mike or Az is scum. I think at this point still most likely Az, but mike had some scummy play at the start of the game too. His Day 2/3 play seems more town though.

@Az

I don't see the point of you replacing out with 2 days left til deadline.

[LordChronos]

66% through iso, LC, just wondering why did you never push the RC wagon D2 after Kishi came under suspicion?

I must admit I am slightly confused by your question here. On page 18, where both the RC wagon and Kishime wagon had 2 votes, I continued to push the RC wagon. If you are asking why I didn't push it after Kish went to L-1, that might be because there was a 2 hour interval between the L-1 vote and hammer.

[LordChronos]

Feeling paranoid that a vote for hhop doesn't equate to a vote for hiphop, so I'm gonna go ahead and vote.

Vote: hiphop

[LordChronos]

Very well done today Uite! Pulling off the cop claim was good play on your part. Hiphop, we actually didn't plan any of this (where this = switching from mike to RC and then Uite claiming cop with inno on mike/guilty on RC).

[LordChronos]

Very well done today Uite! Pulling off the cop claim was good play on your part. Hiphop, we actually didn't plan any of this (where this = switching from mike to RC and then Uite claiming cop with inno on mike/guilty on RC).

Was it really not planned ?

Uite's story was pretty consistent so I was sure if he was bad then it must have been planned - the killer for me that probably just edged the vote was that I figured if Uite was bad he would be confident of getting me lynched day 2 so his easing off me didn't make sense in that regard. Once I saw game over , I assumed it must have been planned to go that way Night 1.

One other question ... I accused you of role fishing on me earlier in the game and you never gave a satisfactory answer. Were you ?

That niggled at me for a bit that did.

Check the quicktopic if you don't believe me. I was as surprised as anyone when Uite pulled that claim out.

And yep, I was indeed soft-rolefishing you. You should have pressed me harder on that one.

[LordChronos]

hiphop, personally I sometimes found it kind of hard to follow your arguments, so maybe try to write more clearly? You were in a really bad spot this game replacing into a slot that people were fairly convinced was a scum slot.

[LordChronos]

Equinox, I'd like to hear whatever comments you have on my play. I think you did a pretty good job as far as being a good IC. You informed the new players of theory when it was appropriate and led by example as far as scumhunting and playing a good pro-town game.

[LordChronos]

I'm only badass

as

Mafia though. I suck as town. Seriously, this is my 16th completed game, and only three of those were Town wins, and only one of those let me see a second Day. On the other hand, this was my seventh game as Mafia, and I've only lost one of those, and that was entirely due to having a certain drmyshottyizsik as a parter.

I keep losing my town games too and I can't do anything about it cause I'm being killed Night 1.

[LordChronos]

Equinox, I'd like to hear whatever comments you have on my play.

Considering I never even suspected you, I'm not sure what I can say.

I can take a closer look this weekend and critique, though.

That'd be awesome.

Oh, and I almost forgot: thanks, KittyMo, for taking over as mod!

Seconded.

Thirded.